CaV: Boros (EmperorThanos) VS. General Thragg (Major_Hellstorm). Open For Votes!

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#1 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

Boros (EmperorThanos) VS. General Thragg (Major_Hellstorm)

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V.S.

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Rules:

  • Bloodlust on, but skills are still intact.
  • Basic knowledge for both.
  • Standard versions and equipment.
  • Battle takes place in Earth's atmosphere 50 feet apart during the day.
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#2 Edited by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Cool. I got a couple of openers to post this week. But I will be able to get to this by the weekend. Though it might be sooner.

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#3 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (26144 posts) - - Show Bio

Will be watching for this.

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#4 Posted by HigherPower (12419 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: Well I have a 4 month break. So I might as well. This is nothing compared to what I used to do. I used to be in 3 seperate tourney's as well doing multiple cavs at the same time. Many don't finish though.

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#6 Posted by cptstormsword (314 posts) - - Show Bio

dang. uh tag this should be interesting.

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#7 Posted by Lvenger (36350 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes please.

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#8 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18964 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#10 Edited by DeathHero61 (18876 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#12 Posted by noah_ouellette (3787 posts) - - Show Bio

*Grand Regent Thragg* T4V

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#13 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by americanspeeddemon (7528 posts) - - Show Bio

This might be interesting tentative T4V

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#15 Posted by StormShadow_X (17531 posts) - - Show Bio

tag

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#16 Edited by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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Lord Boros

Bio

Boros is head of the space-pirate gang the Dark Matter Raiders and self-proclaimed ruler of the universe. After climbing to the top through effort and power alone, beating even the other members of his incredibly powerful species, he found his life almost meaningless without opponents to fight. So, at the counsel of a prophecy, he decides to pay Earth a visit, in hopes of getting a good fight. His intro move is nuking a city with his own city-sized capital ship, thus earning the attention of Saitama.

One Punch Wikia

Powers and Abilities

Boros has limited feats as he has only been in on single fight. But these are his basic abilities. Boros was also considered a dragon plus level threat. Making him the strongest monester to appear in the manga so far. This will be more relevant later on.

  1. Massively superhuman strength
  2. Massively superhuman speed
  3. Massively Superhuman Durability
  4. Energy projection
  5. Regenerative properties
  6. His Meteoric Burst, a sort of power up that he has. It consumes a lot of his energy.

Speed

Now to get good gauge of how fast Boros is you have to first understand how fast Sataima. Saitama was able to keep track and even move faster than Speed o Sound Sonic a character who was easily FTE. In this fight Sonic blitzes around trying to move to fast for Saitama to see but fails to do. He then attempts to attack Saitama but isn't fast enough as Saitama manages to punch him first before he got the chance.

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Another impressive speed for Saitama was during his fight with Genos. In this case Genos fired a full on laser blasts with Saitama was able to avoid with ease. However Genos himself was moving with his laser blast and attack Saitama after he dodged the blast. He hit Saitama with a barrage of punches only to find out that the entire time he had been an after image.

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In terms of speed Boros was shown to be able to match Saitama evenly. He was able to go blow for bow with in terms of speed which was something no one had really been able to do with Sataima up until this pointy. The feats above show that but I can bring in more This is a casual Boros as he does get stronger

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Later on he ended up fighting a much more serious Saitama than we have seen. Saitama uses more power the more serious he gets, and unlike against humans Saitama tends not too hold back against Monster. However Boros still managed to match an on occasion overwhelm him with his sheer speed.

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Strength

Boros is also incredible strong, he has displayed some fairly impressive showings in his fight with Saitama. One example of this is when he was able to punch Saitama so hard that it resulted in the building he hit Saitama on to collapse.

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Immediately after this we get another impressive show for Boros in terms of strength. After bringing down the building, Boros then grabs the entire building and throws it at Saitama. Boros would has to have used a considerable amount of force to not only throw the building but also throw it fast enough to actually hit Saitama.

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Now the final feat I will present for now is the best one yet. Here Boros punches Saitama so hard that he destroys a huge portion of the ship they are on just by the punches shockwaves. The ship for reference was covering an entire City during that time making this a pretty good feat.

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Durability

Boros was capable of tanking a full on punch from Saitama and all it did was break his armour. Which by the way was containing his power so it made him weaker than he actually was. Though he still took no visible damage from the attack.

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Now Saitama is called the one punch man for a reason. Most of the opponents he has faced were taken out in a single hit. These include character of varying level, some of whom who can tank building busting attacks to others who are the size of a building. He has even destroyed a large meteor. Here are a couple of examples of opponents he has one shotted.

First he one shots beefcake a man so large he was towering over a city and every building in it. Saitama manages to kill him with a single blow to head. The brought down the giant and killed him for good.

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Saitama was also able to to completely destroy a meteor that was going to destroy a city. This meteor was attacked by missiles and weapons from metal knight and from Genos but those did nothing to it. While Saitama was able to bust it with a single punch.

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Oh and on top of this Boros posses Regen. It allowed him to survive pretty much every single attack that Saitama used until of course Saitama used his serious punch. Here Boros explains on how it works.

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Alright that's just a basic round down of what he can do. I didn't really go into his best feats yet. I will save that for my next post. I don't know much about Thragg so I can't really come up with a strategy yet.

@major_hellstorm

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#17 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Same here. Will try to get an opener up soon, but I have 1 other CaV to care of first.

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#20 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#21 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Alright, I finished my other CaV. Will have an opener up in 3 days max (probably 2 days).

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#22 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos:

Thragg

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Bio

Grand Regent Thragg was trained since birth to be one of the strongest, most skilled fighters, and leaders for the Viltrumite Empire. He took over as leader of his people in his late teens (Earth years) and focused his reign on finding a way for the Viltrumite Empire to move past the Scourge Virus and for his race to survive.

Comic Vine Wiki

Powers & Abilities

Thragg is a Virtumite, so he has all the standard abilities that comes with being one except he is more powerful as he was trained to be a warrior leader since birth. Although he too lacks feats he has more than enough to be above Invincible. So Thragg has/is:

  • Super strength.
  • Super speed.
  • Flight.
  • Enchanced durability.
  • Enchanced stamina/endurance.
  • A healing factor.
  • A master martial artist.
  • A master strategist.

Speed

In terms of combat/reaction speed Thragg is massively hypersonic to sub-light speed, in terms of travel speed he is LS to FTL. First up combat/reaction speed, here he casually reacts to Omni Man while blitzing Mark, remember there is no sound in space and Thragg was not expecting an attack, so he relied on pure speed.

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And here he easily dodges Space Racer's attacks and catches up to him.

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When normally he can fly as fast as and tag other Virtumites.

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If you need to know why those feats were impressive, you should know that all Virtumites are LS (more on this next post). Here a Virtumite blitzes Allen (someone above Omni Man) from a far away distance before he could even react, granted Allen was distacted but the travel speed alone is LS (look at the planet in the background).

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Strength

This will be Thragg's main advantage. Although he does nit have plenty of feats, he only needs one to be above Boros. This one, where he trashes both Mark and Nolan:

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Here he beats both of them with ease, he is also the one who injured them in the first place. The most impressive part of the scan is Omni Man saying that even when he and Mark team up, they are no match for Thragg (also a feat of skill). This is very impressive as both Omni Man and Invincible are above 500 toners and with help busted a planet.

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Nolan, is equals in strength with Mark btw (scans if needed). Planet busting scan below:

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Also the man helping them is weaker than both Mark and Nolan (Space Racer was helping as well though).

Durability

In terms of durability, Thragg is pretty tough being able to tank a bloodlusted Mark's strikes, only getting a small nose bleed.

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Comquest, the guy Mark says he killed is a Virtumite who was more powerful than Omni Man himself (Nolan and Mark got stronger as the series progressed). Here is a scan of Mark killing him.

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As for endurance, Thragg was able to fight Battle Beast for multiple days, while having his guts hanging out the entire fight.

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Second scan happens before the first.

Since you said those weren't even Boros' best feats I won't make a strategy or claim anything for now, but I do think Thragg is stronger.

That's all for this round.

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#23 Edited by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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Counters

In terms of combat/reaction speed Thragg is massively hypersonic to sub-light speed, in terms of travel speed he is LS to FTL. First up combat/reaction speed, here he casually reacts to Omni Man while blitzing Mark, remember there is no sound in space and Thragg was not expecting an attack, so he relied on pure speed.

So if I haven't made it clear, I'm not really familiar with Invincible characters at all. Which is why I'm going to need a little more back ground on those two to understand how impressive this feat really is. I mean it is very clear that he fast of course but I need more to go on to actually quantify it. Otherwise this is no where near the level of speed Boros has. I already went of how fast Saitama is and how Boros was able to push Sataima further than anyone in the manga has up until that point and even later on.

I mean we are talking about a manga universe after all. Were pretty much even the fodder are capable of FTE combat. And those who canonically weaker than Boros and have been beaten easily beaten by Saitama are able to move hat hypersonic speeds with ease. One example would be Suiryu and Choze who had just become a monster. SUiryu was oneshote by Saitama while Choze is a level or two below than Boros in terms of monster level. However both were capable of hypersonic speeds in combat.

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And here he easily dodges Space Racer's attacks and catches up to him.

When normally he can fly as fast as and tag other Virtumites.

If you need to know why those feats were impressive, you should know that all Virtumites are LS (more on this next post). Here a Virtumite blitzes Allen (someone above Omni Man) from a far away distance before he could even react, granted Allen was distacted but the travel speed alone is LS (look at the planet in the background).

This feat is a little tricky. I can agree to him being FTL is travel speed based on him catching up the space racer. However I don't see dodging his laser as anything close to that. Virtumites may have LS travel speed but that doesn't translate to LS combat speed. And in the instance we see him tag them with his laser they seem to be mostly still instead of moving at LS speeds.

This doesn't really seem to show that he can deal with Boros's speed. Who as I have shown already can fight at massively hypersonic speeds against Saitama. Here is yet another of the two of them fighting evenly. And here Boros actually managed to tag him whilst the two of them were trading blows. I think I have shown enough speed feats of Saitama to show why this is impressive.

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Strength vs Boros Durability

Here he beats both of them with ease, he is also the one who injured them in the first place. The most impressive part of the scan is Omni Man saying that even when he and Mark team up, they are no match for Thragg (also a feat of skill). This is very impressive as both Omni Man and Invincible are above 500 toners and with help busted a planet.

Being 500 tonners has nothing to do with their durability though. So that doesn't help quantify this feat at all. That applies to the planet busting feat which against doesn't show durability at all. On top of that the planetary feat has context behind it. As I said I don't really know much about invincible. But after a little research I found that the core was destabilized prior to the three of them flying through. If it hadn't been they would have died.

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Now I have already shown durability feats of Boros that are enough to suggest he can tank Thragg's attacks. But on top of his own durability Boros does posses regen. He was able to regen after basically being turned into paste by Saitama's consecutive normal punches. That was after he had tanked a punch head on from Saitama.

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Durability vs Boros damage output

In terms of durability, Thragg is pretty tough being able to tank a bloodlusted Mark's strikes, only getting a small nose bleed.

Comquest, the guy Mark says he killed is a Virtumite who was more powerful than Omni Man himself (Nolan and Mark got stronger as the series progressed). Here is a scan of Mark killing him.

This is a fairly impressive feat, though I would still need to learn more about Comquest to understand why the feat is impressive. However I will now show you one of Boros's best feats. During his fight with Saitama, Boros managed to kick Saitama so hard he sent him straight to the moon.

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Now for durability you have so far only shown physical feats. Boros also posses energy manipulation. He is able to fire powerful energy blasts. One instance of this is when he casually fire an energy blast against Saitama in his weaker form. the blasts was powerful to damage a large part of the spaceship they were on.

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This feat is a very weak low end feat compared to what he can do with his energy manip. Later during his fight Saitama, Boros as a last ditched effort against Saitama resorts to his msot powerful energy blast. It was an attack powerful enough to erase the entire surface of the Earth. Now the attack fails to land thanks to Saitama however it force Saitama to use his serious punch which we had never seen him use until this point. With the resulting shockwave spitting clouds on a continental scale.

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As for endurance, Thragg was able to fight Battle Beast for multiple days, while having his guts hanging out the entire fight.

Second scan happens before the first.

While this is good feat, It isn't going to come into play here. This isn't going to be long a fight, certainly not one that is going to go into days. And these scans bring up something else that I would like to point out. Thragg here seems to be tagged by a random alien monster which brings up the question on his speed and how consistent it is. Now of course it could be due to his fatigue for fighting for so long.

Final thoughts

As of right now i feel Boros pretty much has every advantage. His combat seems superior easily and he actively uses it combat. Strength seems closer but I haven't seen anything that Trumps Boros kicking Saitama to the moon. And while Thragg is very strong he doesn't really posses a means to kill Boros. Even if he manages to strike him hard enough to tax his durability, Boros still posses very good regenerative abilities. While on the other hand Thragg doesn't seem to have the durability to tank Boros's stronger physical strikes or his powerful energy blasts. I don't even think Boros would have to resort to his surface wiping attack.

@major_hellstorm

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#24 Posted by NWName (5490 posts) - - Show Bio

Star Busting

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#25 Edited by azrael1973 (2984 posts) - - Show Bio

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2 said:

Star Busting

Don't derail the CaV. Also it's the standard Version and if the debater chlassifies the feat. That is not a regular battle. You can T4V although or make your own CaV.

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#27 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Will post soon, how much do you know about the Invincible verse? Have you read any CaVs with them in it? Just asking so I can know how detailed I'll need to be.

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#28 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I will have my post up soon, probably sometime tommorow (would have been sooner but the first half was deleted, sometimes I wonder if CV just hates it when I do long high tier CaV posts, lol).

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#31 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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Grand Regent Thragg

So if I haven't made it clear, I'm not really familiar with Invincible characters at all. Which is why I'm going to need a little more back ground on those two to understand how impressive this feat really is. I mean it is very clear that he fast of course but I need more to go on to actually quantify it. Otherwise this is no where near the level of speed Boros has. I already went of how fast Saitama is and how Boros was able to push Sataima further than anyone in the manga has up until that point and even later on.

Okay, then let me properly introduce you to the world of Invincible! Before I begin you should know where each character stands so I won't have to give feats for all of them (some may dissagree with my ranking but it is close enough). We will be uisng Mark as a guide so the people below will be ranked equal to, weaker than or stronger than Mark.

Equals: Omni Man and adult Kid Omni Man.

Weaker: Other Virtumites, other Invincible heroes like Tech Jacket, Space Racer and Atom Eve (the space bound heroes are compareable to Mark though), other Invincible villains and younger Invincible, Omni Man and Kid Omni Man.

Stronger: Thragg, Conquest, Allen the Alien and Battle Beast.

Anyway with that out of the way here is a revamped version of the Thragg secion I used against SG in our CaV it should be clear enough.

Speed

First up, how fast is Thragg? For me I think he is near LS, if not LS.

To prove this I will first prove that he is faster than Omni Man (Nolan) and Invincible (Mark).

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In the scan above Thragg catches Invincible witha punch from far away, faster than Mark could react.

Next Thragg shows his strength as well as speed.

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After no selling an attack from Mark Thragg proceeds to catch him with a hit to the neck (a blitz attack) then beat down on Mark attacking him too fast for Mark to even recover. Then he no sells a blow from Omni Man. It is worth noting that both Omni Man and Invincible are bloodlusted here as said in the first scan, they thought Kid Omni Man had been killed by Thragg.

In this next scan he again proves to be faster than Mark.

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As Omni Man tries to by Mark some time he gets swatted awya with ease then catches up with Mark who was flying at full speed, he then states that by the time Omni Man can come to the rescue Mark would already be blitzed to death.

Lastly here is proof he is faster than Omni Man.

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In the time that it took Thragg to crash into glass and tackle Omni Man from a few feet away, Omni Man could only barely push his wife out of the way.

Okay so Thragg is a bit faster than Omni Man and Invincible, so what does that mean? How fast are they?

They have FTL travel and reaction speed and sub LS combat speed. Need evidence? Well for starters Mark is faster than teleportation.

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He out speeds the teleporter in every panel, the teleporter is most probably using isntant teleportation (LS) making Mark FTL.

Here, he is fast enough to travel across countries and change his cloths before a hotdog can fall and Omni Man is quick enough to go to another country and back in the time it takes Mark to take one bite on his hotdog.

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Within a week Omni Man leaves the Earth and finds another planet with life outside our Solar System.

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According to Spaceanswers.com, the nearest solar system is 10.5 light years away, again Omni Man found his planst within a week, but as with the Superman scan I will be conservative and use consistant showing to use a more easy to believe estimate of Omni Man being only LS and very lucky.

According to the bio Omni Man can go to star sytems 10 light years away in 2 weeks.

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So my clac above is possible in canon, making Omni Man FTL is travel speed.

But to prove that Omni Man and Invincible are FTL in travel speed, this normal Virtumite who both Nolan and Mark are stronger than, blitzed Allen the Alien one of the most powerful heroes in the galaxy.

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Than guy from hundreds of meters away flew through a space ship and attacked Allen from the back and as the narrator says, Allen was not even aware the Virtumite was even there.

So Thragg is faster than those Virtumites which mean he has sub LS combat and FTL reaction/ travel speeds (since he is not faster than them by a lot he has about the same rank in speed).

Strength/Durability

This section is for both strength and durability as Thragg tanked blows from Nolan and Mark and is stated to be stronger than both of them. In terms of strength, Thragg has a big advantage.

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This is the follow up scan to the one I showed above of Thragg saying he could blitz Mark to death before Omni Man came, but keep in mind 2 things. First Nolan is gaster than other Virtumites meaning he is faster than Thragg thought, if it were the Virtumite that blitzed Allen, Thragg would have been able to kill Mark before he arrived. Second, Mark was in danger so Omni Man had adrenaline punping through his vains (evidenced by the fact that he failed to dodge Thragg's attack).

Anyway, this scan shows Thragg one shoting Omni Man, who he had earlier weakened.

The next scan is against Nolan in the same fight where Thragg interupted Nolan's sexy time.

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Here the instant Thragg stops playing with Omni Man, Nolan gets destroyed and stands exactly no chance. Thragg punched Onmi Man's eye out and was about to finish him off when a group of 4 Virtumites stoped Thragg. It took Omni Man and 4 Virtumites to beat Thragg.

Lastly a scan of Thragg killing Oliver (who is an adult Kid Omni Man is is as strong if not stronger than Invincible).

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In the next issue it is confirmed Oliver is 100% dead. Thragg killed him in one blow, even eve Ex Machina could not save him. Also the page before this one shows Oliver was undamged (asides from being scraped down a mountain).

Proof of all of this here:

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Anyway what does this mean? It mean Thragg has mountain busting striking as well.

I showed an RT that has plenty good dtrength feats but here is a highlight to prove that Thragg being above Invincible makes him mountain level if not above that.

First of all Mark can create creaters just by slamming Conquest down.

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Here it is in action. Also note this is why Mark never uses his full speed in Earth, he just flew on top of the mountain and it was creating huge cracks (the pattern you can see is Mark's doing, just by flying fast).

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Next we have young Mark lifting 400 tons.

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And later on, Mark gets stronger, much more stronger making him way above 400 tons (also read the scans backwards). Current Mark is around 600+ tons.

Invincible also punched Conquest to death.

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That dude was ranked high than Omni Man and was strong enogh to flex his was out of a military base (if he tired to escape the base was set to self destruct to kill him).

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Btw, he was surrounded by 400 tons of reinforced steel and was uderground (under the facility), he also just woke up from being KOed, and when the base imploded laughed off the damage like nothing. Again, the implosion was there to kill Conquest if he tried to escape.

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Here is the next scan, an Omni Man feat.

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In this scan Omni Man punches Allen from Earth to outer space in one hit. Allen did not want to fight here but it does not change the fact that Nolan easily punched Allen into Orbit.

Strength

This will be a short section as I covered strength earlier, but here I will show what it takes to even damage Mark.

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Here Mark gets punched from outerspace back into Earth by Allen and he flies back right away with no damage and slams Allen into the moon. Note this is young Mark, he was stronger when he fought Thragg.

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Again young Mark, here a Virtumite choke slams him into an island and Mark barely feels it.

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Here Mark tanks a nuke point blank, this does not KO him even for a second.

Counters

This feat is a little tricky. I can agree to him being FTL is travel speed based on him catching up the space racer. However I don't see dodging his laser as anything close to that. Virtumites may have LS travel speed but that doesn't translate to LS combat speed. And in the instance we see him tag them with his laser they seem to be mostly still instead of moving at LS speeds.

Actually those blasts are as fast as Mark and Nolan are.

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In reverse

As you can see even when Mark and Nolan go as fast as they can to bust the planet, Space Racer's blast stays ahead of them (Space Racer shot before they flew down), and I doubtbthey slowed down to keep the blast ahead of them as they needed all their strength to go through the planet, Thaedus even says "Fasted! Faster!" on the scan in the right.

This doesn't really seem to show that he can deal with Boros's speed. Who as I have shown already can fight at massively hypersonic speeds against Saitama. Here is yet another of the two of them fighting evenly. And here Boros actually managed to tag him whilst the two of them were trading blows. I think I have shown enough speed feats of Saitama to show why this is impressive.

Yes, it is very impressive, buut Thragg can fly much faster and can react to much faster things (FTL). He is also sub LS/massively hypersonic himself in terms of combat.

Counters: Strength vs Boros Durability

Being 500 tonners has nothing to do with their durability though. So that doesn't help quantify this feat at all. That applies to the planet busting feat which against doesn't show durability at all.

It shows durability as the planet was exploding around them and they were mostly unharmed by it.

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As you can see they fly through the planet and came out with torn cloths but were mostly unharmed. These scans btw happen right after the ones above.

On top of that the planetary feat has context behind it. As I said I don't really know much about invincible. But after a little research I found that the core was destabilized prior to the three of them flying through. If it hadn't been they would have died.

I know the context, when I said they had help, I thought you knew what I was talking about. Sorry. Either way, that feat is above mountain busting.

Now I have already shown durability feats of Boros that are enough to suggest he can tank Thragg's attacks.

He can tank an attack or 2 but Thragg will be able to destroy the armor in a few strikes. In your scans Saitama's best feat is one shotting a city sized meteor, Thragg can destroy a meteor like that too in 2-3 hits.

But on top of his own durability Boros does posses regen. He was able to regen after basically being turned into paste by Saitama's consecutive normal punches. That was after he had tanked a punch head on from Saitama.

It will prove troublesome but regen hasn't stopped people from getting KOed before so Thragg can just Ko Boros.

Counters: Durability vs Boros damage output

This is a fairly impressive feat, though I would still need to learn more about Comquest to understand why the feat is impressive. However I will now show you one of Boros's best feats. During his fight with Saitama, Boros managed to kick Saitama so hard he sent him straight to the moon.

Impressive, but remember a young Invincible was hit from orbit to the Earth and barely even felt it, although the Moon is further away Thragg is also much more durable than younge Invincible.

Now for durability you have so far only shown physical feats. Boros also posses energy manipulation. He is able to fire powerful energy blasts. One instance of this is when he casually fire an energy blast against Saitama in his weaker form. the blasts was powerful to damage a large part of the spaceship they were on.

I see now reason why Thragg can't just dodge those attacks, he has dodged multiple blast from the Space Racer and those seem even slower than that.

This feat is a very weak low end feat compared to what he can do with his energy manip. Later during his fight Saitama, Boros as a last ditched effort against Saitama resorts to his msot powerful energy blast. It was an attack powerful enough to erase the entire surface of the Earth. Now the attack fails to land thanks to Saitama however it force Saitama to use his serious punch which we had never seen him use until this point. With the resulting shockwave spitting clouds on a continental scale.

Same counter as above, Thragg can just fly up into space or the other side of the planet while Boros wastes his energy.

While this is good feat, It isn't going to come into play here. This isn't going to be long a fight, certainly not one that is going to go into days. And these scans bring up something else that I would like to point out. Thragg here seems to be tagged by a random alien monster which brings up the question on his speed and how consistent it is. Now of course it could be due to his fatigue for fighting for so long.

True, but the thing is that random alien moster is Battle Beast, the only being who lasted that long against Thragg, more powerful than Mark or Nolan. Also Thragg was using his speed in that fight, Space Racer says that BB and Thragg were moving so rapidly across the planet that he couldn't pin them down, in this scan.

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My Final thoughts

As of right now i feel Boros pretty much has every advantage. His combat seems superior easily and he actively uses it combat.

I disagree, you just don't see Thragg feats as impressive as it takes place in outer space but when Virtumites in a planet they carve up mountains or move so rapidly someone who travels FTL cannot even track them.

Strength seems closer but I haven't seen anything that Trumps Boros kicking Saitama to the moon.

Thragg's hits should trump it, adult Mark gets his face smashed open by Thragg and he can no sell being choke slammed by a Virtumite and tank a planet exploding behind with little damage.

And while Thragg is very strong he doesn't really posses a means to kill Boros. Even if he manages to strike him hard enough to tax his durability, Boros still posses very good regenerative abilities.

This isn't a battle to the death, neither of us specified so it can end in KO/incap/death like a standard match.

While on the other hand Thragg doesn't seem to have the durability to tank Boros's stronger physical strikes or his powerful energy blasts. I don't even think Boros would have to resort to his surface wiping attack.

Thragg has the durability and speed to take care of Boros.

I think that is all for now.

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#32 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#34 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: yeah will post soon. This will likely be the last post since I have all of Boros's feats

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#35 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Yup, as you said 3 posts each. My next post will be my last one as well.

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#36 Edited by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

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Counters: Speed

Actually those blasts are as fast as Mark and Nolan are.

As you can see even when Mark and Nolan go as fast as they can to bust the planet, Space Racer's blast stays ahead of them (Space Racer shot before they flew down), and I doubtbthey slowed down to keep the blast ahead of them as they needed all their strength to go through the planet, Thaedus even says "Fasted! Faster!" on the scan in the right.

They weren't flying at FTL speeds in this scan. That was reentry speeds when the laser was going ahead of them. Sure he was saying they should go fast but that doesn't automatically equate to them flying at FTL speed at the time.

Yes, it is very impressive, buut Thragg can fly much faster and can react to much faster things (FTL). He is also sub LS/massively hypersonic himself in terms of combat.

Thragg can fly faster but that has little relevance in combat. We are 50 feet apart, the distance is pretty small. And you have yet to show him actually reaction to something that is FTL. If we the racer speed feat, then it would still give him Lightspeed reactions. However his combat speed is still lacking. I know you showed him blitzing the viltruminites. But looking at all the speed feats you presented for them, pretty much all of them are travel speed feats.

True, but the thing is that random alien moster is Battle Beast, the only being who lasted that long against Thragg, more powerful than Mark or Nolan. Also Thragg was using his speed in that fight, Space Racer says that BB and Thragg were moving so rapidly across the planet that he couldn't pin them down, in this scan.

I wasn't referring to Battle beast. But the random alien that tags him at the beginning of the scan. That isn't battle best just an alien monster on the planet. Now it could be due to fatigue as he has been fighting for several days.

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Speed Feats

He out speeds the teleporter in every panel, the teleporter is most probably using isntant teleportation (LS) making Mark FTL.

This isn't FTL. Especially since we aren't actually told if the teleportation is instant. And even then he is just travelling around. It isn't exactly a combat speed feat at all.

So Thragg is faster than those Virtumites which mean he has sub LS combat and FTL reaction/ travel speeds (since he is not faster than them by a lot he has about the same rank in speed).

Literally every feat you have shown so far are travel speed feats. Not a single feat of them in combat at all or a reaction feat. None of thsoe feats actually show how fast they are in combat. Except maybe the last one where someone bullrushes Allen the alien at FTL speed. But that is still travel. Our characters are 50 feet apart That is actually a pretty short diesnt considering how fast my character is and FTL travel speed is not going come into play here at all.

In contrast every feat I have shown or scaled of has been combat speeds, it shows how fast they during a fight. Of course I can show even more feats of characters conically below Boros fighting at faster speeds than you have shown Thragg been capable of doing.

Counters: Strength vs Boros Durability

It shows durability as the planet was exploding around them and they were mostly unharmed by it.

As you can see they fly through the planet and came out with torn cloths but were mostly unharmed. These scans btw happen right after the ones above.

They flew the planet's core. That's it, they didn't tank, they caused the explosion. At best it shows how they can survive being in Earth's core which had incinerated their clothes. but we see them on the other side of planet as the planet is about to explode behind them. They weren't on the planet when it exploded so they didn't tank anything here. Now you have shown other durability feats for them. Which would put him at around Mountain level based on their other showings. But that's isn't going to be enough to kill Boros.

He can tank an attack or 2 but Thragg will be able to destroy the armor in a few strikes. In your scans Saitama's best feat is one shotting a city sized meteor, Thragg can destroy a meteor like that too in 2-3 hits.

That Meteor wasn't an ordinary Meteor to be honest. It tanked every thing thrown towards it by other s class heroes. This included a full power blast from Genos. Who in a weaker form had manged to bust a mountain. Yet when he used a full power blast against the meteor it wasn't even slowed down by his efforts.

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Here is Genos busting a mountain casually early on in the series. So he is incredibly powerful yet he couldn't even slow down the meteor with a full power blast. So busting that meteor is really impressive.

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And on top of that despite Genos's ridiculous power when he fought Saitama in a sparring match he believed that he could never reach the level of power Saitama posses. And this was after just seeing the shockwave of Saitama's punch.

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Here is an anime depiction of that punch. It showcases it better. And this was just through the punches's shockwave.

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It will prove troublesome but regen hasn't stopped people from getting KOed before so Thragg can just Ko Boros.

That is poor ABC logic. There are people with Regen who can't be koed physically as well. Boros has never been just knocked out, people in OPM regen have never just been KOed. So that logic doesn't work here. The final attack that actually killed Boros was on a multi-continental level. In fact we see the shockwaves of the attack parting clouds on a continental scale. This is far above Thragg's pay grade who is really around mountain level.

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Counters Durability vs Damage output

Impressive, but remember a young Invincible was hit from orbit to the Earth and barely even felt it, although the Moon is further away Thragg is also much more durable than younge Invincible.

I doubt he barely felt it, he was gasping. But Boros's striking feat is more impressive. Invincible was sent from an unknown distance in space to the Earth's sky. Boros launched Saitama to the moon. Also this is poor abc logic. Sure Thragg is more durable, but that doesn't mean he can tank an attack he has never shown to be able to. He would be able to tank the attack Invincible took I guess. But Boros's attack is more powerful so unless Thragg has a feat of his own that can suggest he survive this, I see no reason on why he should.

I see now reason why Thragg can't just dodge those attacks, he has dodged multiple blast from the Space Racer and those seem even slower than that.

In the space racer scan, Space racer was firing backwards at Thragg who just flew around them. Hell even in the scan it doesn't even look like he directly looking at Thragg. This is a little different. Boros isn't going to firing a blast at him point blank. He will be releasing a barrage of attacks before releasing a powerful attack giving Thragg little time to recover of dodge. This is only applicable to his less power energy blasts but is all he needs.

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And as you can see he tagged Saitama(Sorry for the bad quality, webcomic is like that). The same Saitama who had previously avoided a point blank blast from Genos but not from Boros. This more applicable to Boros's first blast of course but still valid. Since Boros is not going to need to resort to a surfacewiping energy attack

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Same counter as above, Thragg can just fly up into space or the other side of the planet while Boros wastes his energy.

Why would Thragg just run away from the attack like that? This seems out of character for a guy who was willing to continue fighting with his guts hanging out. On of top of that there is not going to be time for him to dodge. Like I showed above Saitama has dodged laser blasts from a point blank range. Yet he couldn't Boros's initial blast. He could potentially have dodged this as he only stopped it to save the Earth.

Thragg has only dodged blasts from Space racer who was running away from him. Not point blank blasts that will come at him as he is fighting. Plus Boros's surface wiper is more of a large AOE that will reach him almost instantly.

Conclusion

  1. Thragg really have the means to put down Boros for good. By your own statements Thragg is around mountain level if not a little above. Which is impressive but no where near enough to put down Boros. Saitama has mountain level striking too and he couldn't put down Boros with a barrage of attacks. It took a serious punch which no only split a surface wiper attack but created shockwaves on a continental scale to actually put him down for good. And there is no reason for Boros to be knocked out. Since it never happened in the manga.(The argument that other people with regen being knocked out doesn't work when there are those with regen who haven't)
  2. Thragg on the other hand doesn't have the durability to survive Boros's attacks. You have shown no energy durability feats at all for Thragg meaning Boros should be able to be able to take him out with a energy blast and he really doesn't need to use a surface wiping attack. Boros's physical strikes should also do significant damage especially his moon kick. WHile invicible has tanked something similar, it wasn't on the same level. And while Thragg is stronger than invincible, that doesn't mean he can tank the attack, when he hasn't tanked anything clsoe to it.
  3. Speed is a little more even. Though TBH the only impressive speed feat you have shown is him flying around Space Racer's lasers. Which I'm still not convinced are Lightspeed. And even then it doesn't really apply to his combat speeds where Boros has a big advantage. WHich would mean Thragg will have a hard time tagging Boros in the first place. He has better travel speed but that is of little importance here.
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#37 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: All right done. Assumeing you don't bring anything new in your next post. This is it.

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#38 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Cool. I don't think I will bring anything that warrents another post. Btw, my next post may take a while since I will be gone for a few days.

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#39 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I'm just wrapping up a post I have to do for a tourney, I will get to this soon (it's the last post so I think I have some time).

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#41 Edited by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

No Caption Provided

Final Counters: Speed

They weren't flying at FTL speeds in this scan. That was reentry speeds when the laser was going ahead of them. Sure he was saying they should go fast but that doesn't automatically equate to them flying at FTL speed at the time.

Their timing had to be perfect and it was clear that they were going at top speed, they went from one side of a planet to the other in a very short amount of time that is FTL, and I highly doubt they can accelerate inside the planet, they were already moving at that speed. It is shown in the planet wide shot that they were streaks of light when flying which proves they were LS.

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I wasn't referring to Battle beast. But the random alien that tags him at the beginning of the scan. That isn't battle best just an alien monster on the planet. Now it could be due to fatigue as he has been fighting for several days.

Those beasts came by surprise and were the only alien race that the Virtumites could not get exterminate even at the height of their power so you can assume that they are fast.

This isn't FTL. Especially since we aren't actually told if the teleportation is instant. And even then he is just travelling around. It isn't exactly a combat speed feat at all.

This is FTL, Mark did not know where the guy was going, and it is instant teleportation as the guy goes around the world in panels, it doesn't take time.

Literally every feat you have shown so far are travel speed feats.

You misuse the word literally, there are feats that aren't travel feats.

Not a single feat of them in combat at all or a reaction feat. None of thsoe feats actually show how fast they are in combat. Except maybe the last one where someone bullrushes Allen the alien at FTL speed. But that is still travel. Our characters are 50 feet apart That is actually a pretty short diesnt considering how fast my character is and FTL travel speed is not going come into play here at all.

You see here is the problem with manga vs comic debates, in terms of speed manga draws everything, but you see this?

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That is what speed looks like in comics, in that fight Battle Beast and Thragg were moving so rapidly across the planet that Space Racer couldn't even pin them down (shown here), but it does not look like massively hypersonic. Another example is below where just by flying Mark carves through a mountain side, that is massively hypersonic. Not only that but I have already shown Thragg blitzing Nolan and Mark which at the very least is massively hypersonic.

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Also in terms of reaction speed feats I have shown you plenty, you cannot fly FTL without being able to react at FTL. But here are more clean cut scans.

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As you can see, twice Thragg casually reacts to angry Virtumites charging at him (Omni Man was injurred yes but Thragg did not expect him as well).

In contrast every feat I have shown or scaled of has been combat speeds, it shows how fast they during a fight. Of course I can show even more feats of characters conically below Boros fighting at faster speeds than you have shown Thragg been capable of doing.

No, you just need to read into the scans more, most of the scans above I have already shown.

Final Counters: Strength vs Boros Durability

They flew the planet's core. That's it, they didn't tank, they caused the explosion. At best it shows how they can survive being in Earth's core which had incinerated their clothes. but we see them on the other side of planet as the planet is about to explode behind them. They weren't on the planet when it exploded so they didn't tank anything here. Now you have shown other durability feats for them. Which would put him at around Mountain level based on their other showings. But that's isn't going to be enough to kill Boros.

They tanked this.

No Caption Provided

It did hurt them and everyone else, but they recovered in seconds and it left no lasting damage (again mostly unharmed).

That Meteor wasn't an ordinary Meteor to be honest. It tanked every thing thrown towards it by other s class heroes. This included a full power blast from Genos. Who in a weaker form had manged to bust a mountain. Yet when he used a full power blast against the meteor it wasn't even slowed down by his efforts.

I looked at the scan again and this does looks like a serious punch to me and not the one OPM used against Boros (that plus either meteor PIS or it has better physical durability than energy).

No Caption Provided

I mean it isn't just his face that shows he is serious, he winds up whole body to attack it.

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To recap this is the punch OPM used against Boros.

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No wind up, no serious face, in fact Saitama makes a joke right after and before that looked uninterested. This is more powerful than him rapid punches but not quite as powerful as the meteor punch (so Thragg would have no problem doing the same thing to Boros). Also I gotta point out that Boros was blind sided by OPM here so his reaction speed isn't all that great.

That is poor ABC logic.

It isn't ABC logic ABC logic has to do with scaling, this is deductive reasoning which takes something common and makes it specific.

There are people with Regen who can't be koed physically as well. Boros has never been just knocked out, people in OPM regen have never just been KOed. So that logic doesn't work here. The final attack that actually killed Boros was on a multi-continental level. In fact we see the shockwaves of the attack parting clouds on a continental scale. This is far above Thragg's pay grade who is really around mountain level.

If it wasn't stated that he can't be KOed it can't be assumed that he can't. If Boros' final attack kills him then Thragg can just dodge the hit and win the fight. Also you say OPM characters have never been KOed but from what I gather it is because they die a lot, in other anime and comics almost all the time people with HF can be knocked out even ones with powerful HF.

Final Counters: Durability vs Damage Output

I doubt he barely felt it, he was gasping.

He was gasping for air since he can't breathe in outer space.

But Boros's striking feat is more impressive. Invincible was sent from an unknown distance in space to the Earth's sky. Boros launched Saitama to the moon.

Sure but this is also a younger Mark so older Mark has better durability and Thragg has better durability than older Mark.

Also this is poor abc logic. Sure Thragg is more durable, but that doesn't mean he can tank an attack he has never shown to be able to. He would be able to tank the attack Invincible took I guess.

So you are saying that because he never tanked an attack stronger than that, he isn't more durable? No, I have already shown that Thragg is both faster and stronger than even old Mark, and Omni Man admits that he and Mark stand no chance against Thragg stat wise, so why would we assume that Thragg is not more durable than Mark?

But Boros's attack is more powerful

You are missing the point, not only is young Mark weaker than old Mark who is weaker than Thragg, but young Mark tanked that hit no problem. So Thragg should have no problem tanking that hit.

so unless Thragg has a feat of his own that can suggest he survive this, I see no reason on why he should.

Besides Mark's feat Thragg was slammed by Omni Man from a space ship into the moon and he didn't even flinch.

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I think it's safe to say that Thragg would not be significantly hurt by Boros' punch.

In the space racer scan, Space racer was firing backwards at Thragg who just flew around them. Hell even in the scan it doesn't even look like he directly looking at Thragg.

1. Tragg didn't just fly around them look at his flight line it shows he went in a zig zag to dodge. 2. Space Racer was looking at where Thragg was but Thragg was moving too fast for his eyes to track.

This is a little different. Boros isn't going to firing a blast at him point blank. He will be releasing a barrage of attacks before releasing a powerful attack giving Thragg little time to recover of dodge. This is only applicable to his less power energy blasts but is all he needs.

Thragg won't let Boros blitz him, yes Boros can tag OPM who is massively hyper sonic but it does not mean he can blitz Thragg who is also massively hypersonic.

And as you can see he tagged Saitama(Sorry for the bad quality, webcomic is like that). The same Saitama who had previously avoided a point blank blast from Genos but not from Boros. This more applicable to Boros's first blast of course but still valid.

I am guessing that Genos didn't shoot multiple LS lasers so Thragg should be faster in terms of dodging.

Since Boros is not going to need to resort to a surfacewiping energy attack

And how would he put down Thragg otherwise? Thragg has better stats all around.

Why would Thragg just run away from the attack like that? This seems out of character for a guy who was willing to continue fighting with his guts hanging out.

Because Thragg does not tank attacks he can counter or dodge, he has a tactical mind. The reason he fought BB was because 1. He thought he would win. 2. BB would chase him either way.

On of top of that there is not going to be time for him to dodge. Like I showed above Saitama has dodged laser blasts from a point blank range. Yet he couldn't Boros's initial blast. He could potentially have dodged this as he only stopped it to save the Earth.

Thragg has only dodged blasts from Space racer who was running away from him. Not point blank blasts that will come at him as he is fighting. Plus Boros's surface wiper is more of a large AOE that will reach him almost instantly.

Not only can Thragg dodge LS lasers and react to Virtumites charging at him but he can fly at FTL speeds which is way faster than you can fire, so Thragg can go from the Earth to the moon while you are shooting at him.

Counter Conclusions

Thragg really have the means to put down Boros for good. By your own statements Thragg is around mountain level if not a little above. Which is impressive but no where near enough to put down Boros. Saitama has mountain level striking too and he couldn't put down Boros with a barrage of attacks. It took a serious punch which no only split a surface wiper attack but created shockwaves on a continental scale to actually put him down for good. And there is no reason for Boros to be knocked out. Since it never happened in the manga.(The argument that other people with regen being knocked out doesn't work when there are those with regen who haven't)

Thragg has 2 ways to put down Boros, the first way is to wait till Boros uses his final attack which he would do in character if he is having a hard fight (which Thragg will give him) and the second way is to KO him, now you can say that you can't KO him cause he has regen but you have no feats or official statements of that, you claimed that Boros ca not be knocked out therefore the BoP is on you but you have instead used something called negative proof (again you could say I did too but the burden of proof is on youP.

Thragg on the other hand doesn't have the durability to survive Boros's attacks. You have shown no energy durability feats at all for Thragg meaning Boros should be able to be able to take him out with a energy blast and he really doesn't need to use a surface wiping attack.

Just because Thragg never tanked an energy attack doesn't mean he is weak to it or anything like that, it is more safe to assume that his physical durability is the around the same level as his engery durability.

Boros's physical strikes should also do significant damage especially his moon kick. WHile invicible has tanked something similar, it wasn't on the same level. And while Thragg is stronger than invincible, that doesn't mean he can tank the attack, when he hasn't tanked anything clsoe to it.

3 factors make Mark's feat just as good as the moon kick if not better, which are 1. This is young Mark. 2. Thragg is stronger than old Mark. 3. Mark tanked it with ease.

Speed is a little more even. Though TBH the only impressive speed feat you have shown is him flying around Space Racer's lasers. Which I'm still not convinced are Lightspeed. And even then it doesn't really apply to his combat speeds where Boros has a big advantage. WHich would mean Thragg will have a hard time tagging Boros in the first place. He has better travel speed but that is of little importance here.

I will agree to this, which is why I think your barrage of attacks strategy won't work since we have similar combat speeds.

How The Battle Goes Down

Alright so I think I have proven that Thragg is stronger than Boros and that he can counter all of Boros' attacks but how does the fight go down? I think at the very start Thragg starts the battle with a bullrush suprising Boros then he starts to own Boros due to his strength, this is before Boros powers up. When Boros loses the armor and energizes himself the battle gets closer but Thragg uses his superior skill to his advantage allowing Boros to feel like he has an edge but strike when he least expects it, like this.

No Caption Provided

Of course by this point Boros gets frustrated but Thragg keeps dodges his attacks and using Boros' own strength against him so Boros uses his final attack and Thragg flies FTL to dodge it (he doesn't run away per se he just goes flies up sonit does not touch him). That attack kills Boros so Thragg is the last man standing as the winner.

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#42 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Edited by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Ehh you did post a couple of new scans tbh. Nothing major but stuff I would like to address.

Would you be cool with one more round of counters? I will be quick.

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#45 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Okay. But will it be a long response? I may not counter it if it is the same points as before.

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#46 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: I will try make it as short as possible. You can counter all the stuff you feel need to be countered

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#47 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio
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#48 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Oh btw. A couple of us where discussing Shazam debaters for a potential CaV and I was recommended to ask you.

So how would you feel about a Billy vs Hal debate after we finish this. That is the debate I have wanted to badly for a while now.

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#49 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (18101 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Cool, sounds interesting. Which version of Hal will you use?

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#50 Posted by emperorthanos- (16900 posts) - - Show Bio

@major_hellstorm: Post Crisis/Pre Flashpoint with rebirth feats.

Hal's power was nerfed in new 52. However Rebirth is bringing him back to his old levels

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