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#1 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

The Daywalker, Blade vs The Vampire with a Soul, Angel

This is a fight to the Death. Both are in character.

Fight will take place under ground, away from sunlight.

Angel has feed on Pigs blood Prior and is not hungry.

Both fighters will only be armed with their trademark swords.

This is a random encounter. Blade was tipped off of a vamp and the same for Angel. They both arrived to investigate.

Fighters start 30 yards away.

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VS

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#2 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll try and be formal and thank Candence for agreeing to this debate. With that, I'd like to go ahead and get started.


Blade in this fight will be the better of the two given that advantage that Blade will have in several area's


First, Blade is a vampire hunter. with extensive knowledge of their habits, weaknesses and strengths. But this is common knowledge. What isn't common knowledge is that Blade is extremely strong. More so than Angel, in my striking power and raw powers. Blade is done battle with Vampires and demons Angel would not be able to best.

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Just a few examples are Morbious, The Living Vampire, Dracula, The Lord of Vampires and Varnae, The Former Lord of Vampires. No, alone this scans are impressive, however I will show below why they are more impressive. Dracula has manhandled Colossus and easily out maneuvered wolverine making him vastly Superior to the Buffyverse Dracula. Morbious is an even match and has bested Spiderman and Vernae was a threat to Thor, The Mighty Avenger.

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Also, He's beaten on of the best swordsmen in Europe with only a knife and that was prior to him having vampire strength. Blade has faced swordsmen that are older than Angel and held his own while hurt in the dual with the night terror. Blade even explains that how to effect a vampires soul using his sword skills.

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Combine this with Blade considerable speed and it's possible that Blade my just Blitz and finish the fight within the first few seconds. This is demonstrated above. However, blow I will detail more of Blades combative and reaction speeds. Blade has displayed not only Blur speeds but fast enough to leave after images.

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These things in mind, Blade is more than a match 1 one 1 for Blade.

Blade will likely open up to Blitzs Angel. I believe his speed exceeds Angels my a big enough margin that the only way this will not spell the end is luck. Should Angel survive, Blade greater strength and sword mastery will allow Blade to over powers, disarm and decapitate him.

That is all for my opening.

@cadencev2 I will wait for your response.

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#3 Posted by dondave (41747 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good

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#4 Posted by i_like_swords (26077 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome

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#5 Edited by AllStarSuperman (42623 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for voting

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#6 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: Ok. Lets get this on then.

Alright, Blade, a well known character and clearly in the Wolverine level of stats (Beside Healing feats overall). He is a good swordsmen, and taken on some well known names of Marvel.

Some things I noticed in your post seem slightly off. Example, Dracula. Dracula in the Tomb of Dracula comic is no where near X-Men team buster at all. In fact he lost again to the X-Team rather easy after turning storm into a Vampire ally :/ He has had trouble beating Werewolf By Night in two separate fights, and lost to Werewolf By Night in one fight. He regularly never showed anywhere near the levels your boasting him at. He was regularly challenged by average humans like Hellsing, and peak human (before gaining full Vamp Powers) Blade. Also fighting someone like Morbius. Lets face it, he never beaten the Spider Man level foe, ever. The same Morbius who also been nearly done in by Werewolf By Night, I read alot of Werewolf By Night lol. My point is, Blade has fought some big names, but never bested them. Morbius, Ghost Rider, a very inconsistent vampire Spider Man, and Gambit. Never really ever ended them in a definitive fight. Most of the Vampires he beats is due to his use of Vampire Weaknessess as well.

With that said, I feel the use of these big names in this match is more so to sway people to make Blade look like he is Spider Man Level instead of the more Captain America level being he is.

You showed some great use of speed and such, well Angel also has great speed feats. Angel is a very old, and powerful Vampire, and has shown to not only be superior to most Buffy Vampires, but equals with Buffy herself.

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1) Angel is 50+ feet away from Lilah. He throws a re bar, killing a psychic. She looks back at him, looks forward real quick, then back again. Angel covers the distance in a blink with no warning.

2) Angel and Spike are both over 100 feet away in a dense Night Club. The Scene cuts to the demon who was watching them, and they moved so fast around all the obstacles to be right in his face faster than he could see.

3) Angels speed blitzes 2 humans as a blur from the other side of the room.

4) A lower random Vampire blitzing 3 cops as a blur before they can fire there guns.

5) Angel with his back turned catches a Crossbow Bolt fired less than 20 feet away.

6) A Human fires a Bullet Stake that Angel easily sidesteps after it is fired from less than 15 feet away.

7) Angel chasing another Vampire who is running for their life. He easily blitzes the Vampire chick even tho Vampires are blurs to humans.

8) Angel easily side steps this Crossbow Bolt shot at him as well the gunfire of these freedom fighters. He then blitzes them before they can shoot again.

9) Spike, who is equals with Angel, is seen here blitzing a human who was sprinting away. He was clearly drawn as a blur to catch up to her in a flash.

10) Angel gets thrown out of a window by Illyria. Illyria then slows time so much that Angels free fall was dead still. Yet Spike still saw her as a blur with those Vampire stats.

These feats all paint a picture of a Vampire with speed and reaction time to compete with the likes of Blade in a fight. You also showed Blade's skill with a sword, that great, however Angel proven his skill when he was a mere Human in the After the Fall comics. He as a mere Human had to compete with the super stats and skill of guys like Spike and Gunn. He also did this so well, they all thought he was still a Vampire. Even as a peak human with no Vampire powers, he was able to showcase his skill to continue fighting the baddest Demon Lords of hell, but fool his own allies into thinking he still had Vampire stats.

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Angel spending 3 months in Hell, rescuing humans where he can against demon forces with no powers.

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Angel takes out demons, and even as a human he pulls his weight with his son Conner who has the Vampire Stats, and tons of skill fighting various hells.

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Here Angel as a human does his best, and succeeds, to knock Spike down twice. Spike who is right behind Angel in skill. Angel does this to try put up the illusion he is still a Vampire. Then he tanks the devastating attacks of Illyria who is a insanely powerful being, a being who controls time with Luke Cage stats.

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Angel as a mere human manages to surprise and slay a dragon. Impressive feat in itself when you know the feats of Cordy, Angels pet dragon of the same species.

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Here Angel fights against Multiple Vampires, and then after them the Vampire Gunn. Gunn who as a human can take over 6 Vampires at a time with his own skill over there Inhuman stats. This would, and should have been a impossible battle for any human, but Angel prevails through his skill.

Now remember, these are all human stats Angel. This is Angel without the use of his Vampires stats, immortality, or abilities surviving the worst of the worst Hell could throw at him on raw skill alone. This is not like Blade who had no powers, and worked into powers. This is a guy who had powers for over 200+ years, lost them, and forced to fight the worst hell could throw at him. Thats a good testament to skill.

Now I would no dare dream to continue this debate without getting into weapons. Angel's sword of choice here will be his After the Fall sword he used all the time. The magical flaming blade.

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This fire sword is a incorporeal blade that seems to become solid flame when activated..... its magic *shrugs shoulders*. This fire blade has cut through a T-Rex, Dragons, Armored beings, and even Fire Demons. Fire cutting beings of Fire. I see no reason why the Admantium Blade will destroy Incorpreal Solid Flame, nor why any mere blow from this blade will hinder the Healing Factor Blade has by cauterizing the wound. After all, a burn takes longer to heal than any other wound, especially if it was cauterized. It can also do wonders to set Blade's cloths on fire.

Final thing I wanted to touch on is the fact Blade is a Vampire Hunter and Angel is a Vampire. Many people instantly think, "duh, silver and garlic will end Angel". This makes me face palm all the time lol. Buffy Vampires are superior to Marvel Vampires in the simple fact they are much harder to kill.

Marvel Vampires can be killed by stake in the heart with anything, Silver, Garlic, Holy Water, Sunlight, total body destruction, and Decapitation. Buffy Vamps can only be killed by stake in the heart with wood only, Sunlight, total body destruction, and Decapitation. Way shorter list. and since we are using only swords here, the only way to kill Angel is Decapitation. Thats it. You can cut Angel's heart out, and he will still live, and become immune to all damage for 24 hours. You cannot kill Angel except with Decapitation. This is a huge benefit to the the greatest of the Buffy Verse Vampires.

Since Blade has no knowledge of this twist of events, he really is fighting blind against a foe that is not the same kind vampire Blade will treat him as.

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#7 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Well put together reply. I will have my rebuttal shortly. Nice man.

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#8 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio
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OOOOOOOOOOOHHHH this cav is too epic. Good start! I just cant wait to see this pan out.

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#9 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I would like to address a feat things first.

With that said, I feel the use of these big names in this match is more so to sway people to make Blade look like he is Spider Man Level instead of the more Captain America level being he is

In this I believe you are attacking my credibility. I simply used comparing feats to explain why it was meaningful. However, the fact is, Blade has done battle with people of have battered and beaten A/B list characters. That was the point. It's not different than you using Spike as an example for a Angel feat by logic of Angel >Spike so if he can do it, Angel does it better. I am pretty sure I even said I would point out why the combat feats were meaningful. You even use marvel characters as reference to show how powerful Illriya is. Comparing her to Luke Cage. There is not difference.

He regularly never showed anywhere near the levels your boasting him at.

Oh, but I think you are missing my over all point. Dracula is a legit threat and everyone in the Marvel Universe knows this. He has impressive feats of combat and on his best had could hang with almost anyone. Other examples of Dracula facing of against massively powerful characters are The Silver Surfer and Apocalypse

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Dracula is capable and that is the point made. Morbious, Vernae. This are characters that have gone toe to toe with bigger powerhouses and than what people know Blade to be. The very point is to inform the readers of exactly what Blade is capable. He has done battle with more than just fodder. He's battle characters that have been tested by other tested names. So, the idea that Blade hasn't beaten anyone on spiderman's level is wrong. No where near as popular has him, maybe. But in terms of stats, Blade has done so. He's above Captain America and I'll prove it.

Lets talk about speed. Angels traveling speed is great. However, as many on comicvine know, combat speed and travel speed are different things. Also reaction speed is different two. You showed Angel catching and dodging arrows which is cool. But they aren't bullets. They aren't lasers. Bullets and lasers move faster than arrows. Also, "bullet stake" can't be fired like a normal bullet on physic's alone. So that doesn't even move as fast.

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Blades reactionary speed and combat speed are much higher. Here you can see Blade blocking gun fire by spinning a chain. Blade casually moves though bullets after they are fired before striking deadpool while he was talking. Blade leaves after images while dodging lasers. They difference in speed is clear.

No, correct me if I'm wrong, but did Angel not have use dark magic during the time that he was human. Because, lets be honest, that is a major plot hole or just plan PIS. Angel and Spike have boosted an number of time about there tracking abilities and sense of smell. At the very least, Spike should have know Angel was human for that reason alone. Angel still had "powers" per se, in that he used magic to keep himself alive.

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However, when Blade was just a man, he took on the likes of Decon Frost with nothing but a stake and Dracula.

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As a man, Blade was just strong than Angel. As a Daywalker, Blade is stronger than Angel as a Vampire. And this begs the question, sword or not, how exactly is Angel going to hurt Blade. I don't think he's strong enough to get past Blades Durability

In season two of Buffy, Angel was beaten down by Giles with nothing more than a Baseball Bat(Though it was on fire and looking cool) I just showed Blade being trashed as a man and getting right back up. Even put though a stone wall. However as the Daywalker he's way more durable.

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Blade compares Bullets to dog bites and still stomps people with a sword in his chest. Back tracking a bit to point out that this is not Captain America level. Cap was killed by bullets.

Beyond that blade has survived at the center of multiple explosions.

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Angel isn't going to hurt Blade without some very serious effort due healing factor and durability. But you suggested that Blades healing factor would be over come by the flaming swords. Not only do the above suggest otherwise, but fire/hellfire doesn't really effect blade.

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I want to touch on Buffy vamps vs Marvel vamps quickly. you said

Marvel Vampires can be killed by stake in the heart with anything, Silver, Garlic, Holy Water, Sunlight, total body destruction, and Decapitation. Buffy Vamps can only be killed by stake in the heart with wood only, Sunlight, total body destruction, and Decapitation. Way shorter list. and since we are using only swords here, the only way to kill Angel is Decapitation. Thats it. You can cut Angel's heart out, and he will still live, and become immune to all damage for 24 hours. You cannot kill Angel except with Decapitation. This is a huge benefit to the the greatest of the Buffy Verse Vampires.

One thing I would like to point out is that Marvel vamps must be staked with wood or silver. Also, I will provide that scan, but holy objects do effect Buffy vamps. There is proof of this in the episode Spin the bottle in which Angel grabs a cross and it starts burning though his hand as they attempted to find which person is the vampire. However, with Marvel vamps, they only way holy objects will work is if used by a true believer (Proof in the scans below). Also marvel vamps can regrow their limbs with in an instant. So you have put bad information out to suggest Marvel vamps are weaker, when they are, in fact, stronger. Vamps from the buffy verse are also not able to enter private homes and places. Marvel vamps may.

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Beyond that, Marvel Vamps have sacked Atlantis and the Xmen(Curse of the Mutants). Captain America was almost killed by a Vamp assassin. Which is further proof that they are no way inferior.

Now, to once again point out what kind of fighter Blade is I'll post some feats and give some comparing feats. Blade has easily clowned around on The Thing(He didn't want to hurt him, he was there to help). This is compared to Thing manhandling Wolverine. He beat down waves of Mindless once, killing some with his barehands. This compared to a group summoned by Dr. Doom besting the Fantastic 4. He battled Spit Fire to a Draw and she's a speedster.(Though, honestly I think they were hoping it ending in sex. Just sayin) Further proof of his speed and reaction. He battled Deadpool and would have defeated him, if not for outside help. Deadpool has thrown hands with the likes of Wolverine and Daredevil.

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And the comparing scans

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And again, the above is simple to extrapolate on the worth of Blade's Feats. Mindless one's have over power the FF. Blade was killing them with his bare hands. Wolverine is top tear and was still over powered by the Thing.


Lastly, it doesn't matter that Blade doesn't know he isn't weak against Silver. Blades not packing any. Blade would evicerate him as he has done so many other vampires when only armed with his sword. I already pointed out above that Blade knows how to use his sword to make it effect vampires regardless after dismemberment.

All in all, Blade is just too fast and has too big of a strength gap for Angel. I reaffirm that Blade will open up with a speed blitz. This will likely spell the end for Angel given that he has been hit with arrows and I've already shown Blade being able to effortlessly weave though Bullets in flight. However, if it does not, Blade is a bigger powerhouse. He will quickly over power Angel with strength and sword work and take his head off.

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Insert Angels head in that scan.

Your move.

.

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#10 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster:

In this I believe you are attacking my credibility. I simply used comparing feats to explain why it was meaningful. However, the fact is, Blade has done battle with people of have battered and beaten A/B list characters. That was the point. It's not different than you using Spike as an example for a Angel feat by logic of Angel >Spike so if he can do it, Angel does it better. I am pretty sure I even said I would point out why the combat feats were meaningful. You even use marvel characters as reference to show how powerful Illriya is. Comparing her to Luke Cage. There is not difference.

Do not get me wrong, i am not meaning attack the credibility directly, I would too use big names if I had any for Buffy verse. Other than buffy herself, and maybe Spike, I have nothing non show watchers can relate too :( With that said I meant how using bigger name characters I know will come up in this debate, and for voters I hope they consider the feats and showings of a non mainstream, or popular comic line rather than brush it off as a non contender.

Oh, but I think you are missing my over all point. Dracula is a legit threat and everyone in the Marvel Universe knows this. He has impressive feats of combat and on his best had could hang with almost anyone. Other examples of Dracula facing of against massively powerful characters are The Silver Surfer and Apocalypse

Well again, here is the the thing, Im not sure if you understand the context of the scans your throwing out there. It sounds impressive he dueled with SS and Apoc, but he always had plot device to do so.

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Examples here. Dracula vs Thor, in the first scan we know Dracula needed the Blood of Sif to amp his powers tenfold. When theblood wore off, he was helpless. Same with Apoc, Dracula never fought Apoc honestly, he simply bit Apoc, and gain control over him like any other Vampire. Apoc still beat him with no effort.

There is context missing here. Dracula can take on powerful fores, but often needs plot device and loses. I am unsure of the SS incident, but Im sure there is major context to that as well.

Lets talk about speed. Angels traveling speed is great. However, as many on comicvine know, combat speed and travel speed are different things. Also reaction speed is different two. You showed Angel catching and dodging arrows which is cool. But they aren't bullets. They aren't lasers. Bullets and lasers move faster than arrows. Also, "bullet stake" can't be fired like a normal bullet on physic's alone. So that doesn't even move as fast.

Lasers tend to move at the slowest speeds, near lightning. something even Spider Man cannot come close to. We are talking DC Flash speed there. Yet every Street Leveler has at a point dodge them due to, ready for it, aim dodging!

You point out that Stake bullet is not cool, well it is actually. Its a gun powdered firing cannon projecting a stake at speeds greater than any crossbow. Same with Angel moving faster than bullets that are fired first before he dodges.

You say there is no combat speed? All travel speed? Then re look at some of the scans. Angel reaction speed is faster than 300-400 feet per second, and he can literally react to beings moving at Hyper Sonic speeds as blur. He has shown combat speed by blitzing humans, and pinning them to a wall in a blink. we seen other Vampires move as a blur on the show like the scan 4 above (The intention of them using super speed) and Angel in turns blitz these Vamps no problem. I see however your still not convinced. Ok.

Here is some speed feats of Buffy.

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1) Buffy fights the same way as Spider Man did vs Hulk, Leaving after images while the demon barely has time to move, but landing tons of blows.

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Look familiar?

2) Dodging gunfire from a enhanced in stats, including speed, Marksmen who is used to tagging super fast vamps.

3) Dodging gunfire up close.

4) This is impressive, unlike aim dodging like blade does, Buffy is fighting among tons of bullets from a trained military army without getting touched.

5) Buffy reacted and moved faster than these bullets traveling to their target after they were fired.

6) Not the best effects in the show (Budgets :/) but she still dodge gunfire from trained Watchers with no effort.

7) Another showing of her speed and ability to navigate a death trap of devices whipping at her.

This is the same Buffy who easily blitzes multiple Vampires with her own insane drawn speed.

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Two examples of Buffy shown speed in the art vs Blur Speed Vampires. Buffy is fast.

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Angel has always been on par with Buffy in stats and speed. Angel like wise has beaten Spike who in turn also matched Buffy, and overwhelmed Buffy in fights. Angel has taken down Faith twice, another Slayer who matches Buffy, unfortunately no You Tube vids of this cause Youtube sucks!

Angel has proven time and again to match the fastest and most skill of the Joss Whedon Universe through his career of 7 seasons of shows and host of comics. Blade on the other hand never seem to be any more impressive in speed then say Gambit, or Captain America from what I ever seen.

Now not to lowball Blade, but if Blade is so fast as you claim, then why does Blade get regularly tag as well by mere humans, and Ghost Rider?

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Ghost Rider is far from a any kind of speedster, yet he consistently tags Blade who has a major amp to all stats from the Darkhold. You say Blade always dodge lasers? Then how did Hannibal tag Blade with this amp twice with a laser?

See what I mean? Blade is no way a consistent Quick Silver fighter. he has shown short burst of speed, so has Angel. There is simply no logical way to say Blade is faster, and will speed blitz Angel.

Blades reactionary speed and combat speed are much higher. Here you can see Blade blocking gun fire by spinning a chain. Blade casually moves though bullets after they are fired before striking deadpool while he was talking. Blade leaves after images while dodging lasers. They difference in speed is clear.

Not really, I also showed Angel dodging bullets after they are fired, and i showed Angel easily keeping up with Buffy who in multiple art works leave "after images" yet lets face it, she is not Spider Man fast as much i wish her to be :). I think your over blowing some feats to make it seem he is higher than he is when its not anywhere near Peter Parker fast.

No, correct me if I'm wrong, but did Angel not have use dark magic during the time that he was human. Because, lets be honest, that is a major plot hole or just plan PIS. Angel and Spike have boosted an number of time about there tracking abilities and sense of smell. At the very least, Spike should have know Angel was human for that reason alone. Angel still had "powers" per se, in that he used magic to keep himself alive.

I thinks it strange you say its PIS, but below this comment you post all the awesome things Blade did as a mere mortal :).

Regardless, no there was no Black Magic involved. However, to add to the feat, when Angel turned human he did not know it, and jumped off a roof of a building. Ouch. When he landed , every bone in his body was broken pretty much. He was forced to keep taking a Healing Potion to help heal his injuries, but it never healed him 100%, and he was forced fighting in Hell for weeks on end already in bad shape, and getting worse.

As for Spike not smelling it, that seems PIS. In his defense though, he was in Hell where time, perceptions, ect were all twisted and tainted *Shrugs* may had something to do with it.

However, when Blade was just a man, he took on the likes of Decon Frost with nothing but a stake and Dracula.

As a man, Blade was just strong than Angel. As a Daywalker, Blade is stronger than Angel as a Vampire. And this begs the question, sword or not, how exactly is Angel going to hurt Blade. I don't think he's strong enough to get past Blades Durability

In season two of Buffy, Angel was beaten down by Giles with nothing more than a Baseball Bat(Though it was on fire and looking cool) I just showed Blade being trashed as a man and getting right back up. Even put though a stone wall. However as the Daywalker he's way more durable.

Well, Giles is a master practitioner of magic, and highly respected fighter in the show/comics as such. Magic tends to trump Angel's stats lol. Also Angel was the bad guy, and could not hope to win that fight from a plot view anymore than Dr. Doom could vs Mr. Fantastic. That said Angel has good feats of Durability as well.

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1-3) Bullets and Arrows mean nothing to a Vampire.

4) Angel gets bitten by a Grizzly Bear size Lamiah Demon, no real damage.

5) Angel gets whacked up the head by a 1000 pound Dumpster.

6) Angel is ran over 3 times by a 1 ton truck, and then afterward gets bashed on by a sledge hammer. Angel simply gets up and kicks Lindsey's a$$.

7) Super strength to crater concrete walls cannot KO Angel.

8-9) Angel twice falls from 50+ stories of building, lands on the pavement face first, and simply gets up with no damage.

10) Sword through chest means nothing to him.

11) Electricity of a Lightning Bolt from a powerful mutant does nothing to him.

12) Great feat here, Angel tanks a exploding grenade at point blank range, goes through a elevator doer, falls a floor, and then rushes outside to his friend. He then cracks a joke afterword.

13) Angel and Spike tanks a large Bomb that trashes the whole area at ground zero.

Need I say more how durable Angel is with his own Healing factor?

Blade compares Bullets to dog bites and still stomps people with a sword in his chest. Back tracking a bit to point out that this is not Captain America level. Cap was killed by bullets.

Cap was killed by a head shot when he wore a power dampener collar :/ Hardly the same. Healing factor also does not mean your greater than Cap in stats.

Beyond that blade has survived at the center of multiple explosions.

So has Angel, showed above....

Angel isn't going to hurt Blade without some very serious effort due healing factor and durability. But you suggested that Blades healing factor would be over come by the flaming swords. Not only do the above suggest otherwise, but fire/hellfire doesn't really effect blade.

Then I can say the same for Angel right? Seriously though, that Flame Sword still cuts like a sword, and unless you have feats of Blade being Luke Cage with unbreakable skin, I see no reason it cannot do damage.

I want to touch on Buffy vamps vs Marvel vamps quickly. you said

One thing I would like to point out is that Marvel vamps must be staked with wood or silver. Also, I will provide that scan, but holy objects do effect Buffy vamps. There is proof of this in the episode Spin the bottle in which Angel grabs a cross and it starts burning though his hand as they attempted to find which person is the vampire. However, with Marvel vamps, they only way holy objects will work is if used by a true believer (Proof in the scans below). Also marvel vamps can regrow their limbs with in an instant. So you have put bad information out to suggest Marvel vamps are weaker, when they are, in fact, stronger. Vamps from the buffy verse are also not able to enter private homes and places. Marvel vamps may.

Your right, not entering a home without permission is so relevant in a fight :) Also your over blowing the feat. Does it burn a Vampire? yes, like hot grease, but will not kill them.

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Spike here was using a wooden cross as a baseball bat lol. Like wise Angel been splashed with Holy Water and held crosses to little effect.

Beyond that, Marvel Vamps have sacked Atlantis and the Xmen(Curse of the Mutants). Captain America was almost killed by a Vamp assassin. Which is further proof that they are no way inferior.

Buffy Vampires pretty much ruled the world in a time when demons were waging war on it. Atlantis is small fries to the whole world filled with Demons. Captain America could almost be killed by Drusilla, a lower Buffy Vampire, whats your point? Again throwing a big name around to make a Marvel Vampire look superior.

Now, to once again point out what kind of fighter Blade is I'll post some feats and give some comparing feats. Blade has easily clowned around on The Thing(He didn't want to hurt him, he was there to help). This is compared to Thing manhandling Wolverine. He beat down waves of Mindless once, killing some with his barehands. This compared to a group summoned by Dr. Doom besting the Fantastic 4. He battled Spit Fire to a Draw and she's a speedster.(Though, honestly I think they were hoping it ending in sex. Just sayin) Further proof of his speed and reaction. He battled Deadpool and would have defeated him, if not for outside help. Deadpool has thrown hands with the likes of Wolverine and Daredevil.

And the comparing scans

And again, the above is simple to extrapolate on the worth of Blade's Feats. Mindless one's have over power the FF. Blade was killing them with his bare hands. Wolverine is top tear and was still over powered by the Thing.

Whoah, Wolverine fans are not going to agree at all with your poor comparison of Thing > Wolverine at all. In fact, i really do not need to touch on this at all as Wolverine popularity, and well known to voters here will see the flaw in this argument.

I could compare more skill of Angel through Spike, and Buffy.

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Buffy has always been shown to possess the Innate skill and experience of all the Slayers before her. That is alot of skill to have before training. After training, and fighting the baddest of the bad for over a decade, her skill bank is a all time high. Yet Angel always manage to match her in a fight.

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Her skill bank grows so much she is able to even fight blind in a few episodes.

Spike on the other hand has personally killed 2 Slayers who aslo possess all the skill, ect of Slayer before them. Showing his skill level. Spike also managed to put buffy in bad positions in a fight.

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Angel lost a close battle to Spike once, later he explains he did not want to win as badly as Spike did, but beat him the second time around.

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So Angel skill is very much up there. there is more battles of skill, but between his ability to match Buffy and Spike, as well his skill showings as a broken human, I think he is easily capable to match Blade.

Lastly, it doesn't matter that Blade doesn't know he isn't weak against Silver. Blades not packing any. Blade would evicerate him as he has done so many other vampires when only armed with his sword. I already pointed out above that Blade knows how to use his sword to make it effect vampires regardless after dismemberment.

True he could still go with the whole Eviscerate thing, but I do remember Blade's sword is Adamantium with Silver in it. So when he goes for any minor jabs or stabs expecting the Silver to have results, he will have a nasty surprise. Also I highly doubt any of the Vamps blade fights are anywhere the skill of angel either.

All in all, Blade is just too fast and has too big of a strength gap for Angel. I reaffirm that Blade will open up with a speed blitz. This will likely spell the end for Angel given that he has been hit with arrows and I've already shown Blade being able to effortlessly weave though Bullets in flight. However, if it does not, Blade is a bigger powerhouse. He will quickly over power Angel with strength and sword work and take his head off.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... strength gap? Not as big as you like to think..

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1-3) Easily smashes through solid wooden structures.

4) Craters a concrete wall.

5) Kicks a cops head off.

6) Kicks a Punching bag across the room after snapping the chain.

7) Cuts a giant Demon in nearly half with a blow.

8) Smashes a Marble Statue with his fist. Marble is pretty tough.

9) Smashes through 6 inches or Plexy Glass, very impressive.

10) Lifts the Hydraulic powered Steel Gate that protects Diamonds.

11) Rips through a steel grate.

12-14) Various feats of over powering other Vampires with ease.

He is very strong, easily in the 1500 to 1 ton range. Blade is a 2 toner at best. Even his Bios state around 1 ton strength :/.

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Hardly a large strength gap when Gambit can parry Blade's attacks with his own strength.

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#11 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: You know, I feel like you and I are not communicating here. I'll point out why below as it comes up.

Anyway. Lets talk about Plot devices.

There is context missing here. Dracula can take on powerful fores, but often needs plot device and loses.


Mr. Fantastic once tricked Galactus into thinking he had the ultimate nullifier. That is a Plot device. Here is one a little closer to home. In the Epsiode "You're welcome" Lendsey duals Angel with swords and quickly gets the better of him. However, despite all their history and he knowledge of Angel and Vampires in general, instead of cutting Angel's head off, he stabs him through the heart. Angel even calls him a dumb ass for this because he has to be staked by wood. That is a plot device (Or PIS. Take you pick)
Dracula, like all marvel vamps, get a power boost from drinking Blood. If Dracula managed to drink the blood of extremely powerful characters such as Apocolypse or Lady Sif and then do battle with people like Thor, that's not a plot device. That's Dracula's power. And as I said before, the point of the scans what not to show that Dracula is the end all be all, but to show that many consider him a major threat. The fact that he has used his powers and abilities to go toe to toe with the likes of Apocolspe, Thor, Lady Sif, Silver surfer, means that a victory of him a a major one.

You point out that Stake bullet is not cool, well it is actually. Its a gun powdered firing cannon projecting a stake at speeds greater than any crossbow. Same with Angel moving faster than bullets that are fired first before he dodges.

I said what now??? No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, I said the exact opposite thing. This is example one of the communication issue.

I actually said "You showed Angel catching and dodging arrows which is cool. But they aren't bullets. They aren't lasers. Bullets and lasers move faster than arrows. Also, "bullet stake" can't be fired like a normal bullet on physic's alone. So that doesn't even move as fast." That is a direct copy past. And you did not address that point at all. It's fine that Angel can do it, but the point is that real bullets would move faster because they could be fired with out risk of the Gun Powered destroying the projectile and lasers also move faster.

Why are you using feats from Buffy and then Condamning me for using comparing feats. Angel is not Buffy and as far as I know, Buffy Beat Angel in all of their 1v1 serious fights. They didn't stalemate, he got beat. So what's the point of all that? To suggest that Angel can do it to? I don't buy that.

Blade on the other hand never seem to be any more impressive in speed then say Gambit, or Captain America from what I ever seen.

Wait, what??? I just posted Blade dodging Bullets in flight and Lasers. What are you talking about. You are lowballing Blade or you are talking about thinks without putting the truly into contexts. For example.

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There is the brief fight Blade had with Gambit that you keep referencing. Here is the part you are leaving out. This fight was Pre-Daywalker. Blade did not have Vamp stats at this point and easily kept up with Gambit and other Vamps. You're saying that Blade has never shown consistent speed but the fact of the matter is, he has. Pre-Daywalker Blade was Battling Vamps and Supers on Raw skills but never really bested any. Like is first encounter with Spiderman. I'll post some scans and break it down for you.

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Here we see that Pre-Daywalker Blade had Manage to Capture The Vampire Sage. After this he is attacked from Behind by Spiderman. This would have put down any normal person, but Blade tanks, cuts through web but is still out maneuvered. This allows Sage to escape and Spiderman even says that the Vampire is too fast, so he just tosses a tracker. Later that fight and even with the Spider sense, Spiderman was unable to avoid being attack and would have been killed if not for Blade. That is not only a testament to Blade skill and durability, but shows what he was dealing with before he had powers. Then you look at the Blade vs Vamp spiderman.

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Blade deals with Vamp parker easily. Disabling him. This is consistent with the fact that Spiderman has struggled against Vamp's before. Showing that Blade got a major increase in his speed and strength.

All that being said you are using scans without the actual context the same why you claimed I was. An out of control Swtich Blade (Blade with Powers for those who don't know) getting tagged by the Ghost Rider makes way more sense that Angel being nearly beaten to death with a bat by a pissed of Giles.

See what I mean? Blade is no way a consistent Quick Silver fighter. he has shown short burst of speed, so has Angel. There is simply no logical way to say Blade is faster, and will speed blitz Angel.

See again, I've never said Blade was quicksilver. Never once. What I pointed out with scans is that Blade has on panel dodged lasers while leaving after images. That is not aim dodging. He has dodged though Bullets and punched Deadpool in the face. That's not aim dodging. He battled Spitfire who is a speedster. Dodging real bullets and lasers trumps dodging wooden bullets and stakes. I've already posted the scans. Blade is the faster of the two.

Regardless, no there was no Black Magic involved. However, to add to the feat, when Angel turned human he did not know it, and jumped off a roof of a building. Ouch. When he landed , every bone in his body was broken pretty much. He was forced to keep taking a Healing Potion to help heal his injuries, but it never healed him 100%, and he was forced fighting in Hell for weeks on end already in bad shape, and getting worse.

Dude, come on. Healing potions might now be "Black Magic" but still. It's magic. Blade, as a man, was punched through a stone castle wall and got right back up. Based of Angels fall he would not have tanked this. Truthfully, this is kinda unimportant. I was just matching your Human angel feats with Human Blade feats. In that regard, as normal mean, Blade is stronger. I could stretch it and say it implies Blade has higher base stats, but it's unimportant.

Well, Giles is a master practitioner of magic, and highly respected fighter in the show/comics as such. Magic tends to trump Angel's stats lol. Also Angel was the bad guy, and could not hope to win that fight from a plot view anymore than Dr. Doom could vs Mr. Fantastic. That said Angel has good feats of Durability as well.

Just like Blade isn't going to be winning over any A lister unlike the world suddenly falls in love with him. I understand plot and it's use. The reason I brought it is to point out, Angel, was serious hurt by it. Just a flaming bat and normal man rage. No magic, no cool fighting. He shoot him with an arrow and the started beating him. I'll even admit, Angel came back at the end and was probably going to kill him if Buffy didn't save him. But Angel walked away blooded and bruised by a normal man. That has not happen to Blade after he became The Daywalker.

Angel and Spike tanks a large Bomb that trashes the whole area at ground zero.

Need I say more how durable Angel is with his own Healing factor?

Yes, there are a few things that are left to be said about his durability and healing. I want to say first, it's an impressive feat. However, one that is trumped by Blades actions. Tanking that Bomb ground zero is impressive., however look at the too scans.

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We can get an example of the yield of the explosion based on the damage to the surrounding area. The Building blade was suffered much more structural damage than that of Angel and Spike. Thus we can see that Blade has tanked more force in damage than Angel.

Your right, not entering a home without permission is so relevant in a fight :) Also your over blowing the feat. Does it burn a Vampire? yes, like hot grease, but will not kill them.

No, I'm pointing out that you are mistaken and gave out misleading information. Buffy vamps are hurt regardless by holy objects of any type. You left that out alone with the minor weakness of entering building. Marvel Vamps are not hurt by holy object unless used by a believer. Thus it would be hit or miss rather or not they are even useful.

Atlantis is small fries to the whole world filled with Demons. Captain America could almost be killed by Drusilla, a lower Buffy Vampire, whats your point? Again throwing a big name around to make a Marvel Vampire look superior.

Whoah, Wolverine fans are not going to agree at all with your poor comparison of Thing > Wolverine at all. In fact, i really do not need to touch on this at all as Wolverine popularity, and well known to voters here will see the flaw in this argument.

No you're attacking my credibility again. Especially given that number of times you have used other people feats to make Angel look go without actually showing that he has the ability to reproduce the feat. and when did I say Thing >Wolverine? Where did I post that. I only pointed out that Thing has shown the ability to best Wolverine. Not that he is better. So when you see Blade Dancing around Thing like he's a non threat, you get an idea of what it's an impressive feat. Unlike you, I actually show Blade doing the things I say he can do. You have repeatedly stated that Blades feats are not legit but have no proof to suggest otherwise.

1-3) Easily smashes through solid wooden structures.

4) Craters a concrete wall.

5) Kicks a cops head off.

6) Kicks a Punching bag across the room after snapping the chain.

7) Cuts a giant Demon in nearly half with a blow.

8) Smashes a Marble Statue with his fist. Marble is pretty tough.

9) Smashes through 6 inches or Plexy Glass, very impressive.

10) Lifts the Hydraulic powered Steel Gate that protects Diamonds.

11) Rips through a steel grate.

12-14) Various feats of over powering other Vampires with ease.

He is very strong, easily in the 1500 to 1 ton range. Blade is a 2 toner at best. Even his Bios state around 1 ton strength :/.

1-3: I feat any trained martial artist could do.

4:Already shown Blade has more than enough power to do this.

5: This is trumped by Blade pulled the head of a vamp without effort. I've posted that already.

6:I'll post Blade kicking metal doors in half.

7: I showed Blade cutting a demon into six, putting his sword away and walking away before the vamp fell.

8: Again, I've already said that Blade and distort and steel which is harder than marble.

9:Plexiglass is a type of plastic. This is not an impressive feat in the world of superhumans.

10: Blade has done it. I'll post it.

11-13:Blade has done it. I'll post it. But I'll also post him Defeating the empowered Decon Frost and other More powerful characters.

Blade's Bio is as meaningless in a debate of feats as an opinion. Angel is likely at 1/2 - 1 ton. Blade is easily over 6.

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Crushing Steel doors. Breaking Frost Arm coils. Pulling metal doors off the hindges. Knocking another steel door down and seriously denting it. Beating up empowered Decon Frost and using H2H to beat up a room full of Vamps. You name if for Angel and Blade has done it better. On top of the fact that I already posted Blade killing a Mindless One with his hands, Drawing Blood from the Former Vampire Lord that Battled Thor and Lifting the Reaper God Above his head, Blade is easily 10 tons if he were going all out. The feats are consistent However, within the limit of the feats and no speculation Blade is 6-8 tons. Which is several times more that Angel. That is a huge Strength gap.

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There is not denying this. You attack his feats and say "Well, how did Gambit block his strikes" Because he wasn't the Daywalker at that time. What that means is he didn't have Super Strength and Super Speed. Or any Super Stats. Blade started out just immune to Vamp Venom. No more than that and he was still more of a power house than Angel was in his human form
You attack his speed saying he's aim dodging, but I've already shown Blade dodge Bullets in flight. I've shown him Block them with a chain. I've shown him Dodge lasers while leaving after images. But to drive the point home

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Blade has always been a bullet timer. Always. I have posted too many feats for you to say otherwise. It is a fact, Blade can dodge bullets in flight.

So, these things in mind, I will say again, Blade will likely Blitz and if he does, he could end the fight right away. But if he does not, In a dual, he will over power Angel very quickly. He has the Swordskills that equal or exceed Angels. His speed exceeds Angels and his Strength certainly does. There is no reason for you to compare again to Blade before he was the Daywalker, I've made the differences clear enough.
You have no address what Angel will be able to do to get past Blade better stats and fighting skills.

If you're read, you can post you're closing. I'll post mind and We'll open it for vote.

(Overall, Thanks for the debate. Just wanted to put that out there before the results)

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#12 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Hey man. Are you going to do a closing or would you like to just jump to voting?

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#13 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Hey man. Are you going to do a closing or would you like to just jump to voting?

I will make my closing tonight. Wifes B-Day today.

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#14 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster:

Anyway. Lets talk about Plot devices.

Mr. Fantastic once tricked Galactus into thinking he had the ultimate nullifier. That is a Plot device. Here is one a little closer to home. In the Epsiode "You're welcome" Lendsey duals Angel with swords and quickly gets the better of him. However, despite all their history and he knowledge of Angel and Vampires in general, instead of cutting Angel's head off, he stabs him through the heart. Angel even calls him a dumb ass for this because he has to be staked by wood. That is a plot device (Or PIS. Take you pick)

I love that episode, and you left out context here as well.

1) Lindsy beat angel due to super human stats granted by the Glyphs he tattoo on himself.

2) Lindsy did not want to kill Angel at all, he simply wanted to gloat to the Senior Partners he was better than Angel to join their ranks.

There was no Plot device, just plot. Lindsy with his knowledge of Angel, Prep, and Super Human stats did beat Angel. He did not win overall as the third party intervened.

Dracula, like all marvel vamps, get a power boost from drinking Blood. If Dracula managed to drink the blood of extremely powerful characters such as Apocolypse or Lady Sif and then do battle with people like Thor, that's not a plot device. That's Dracula's power. And as I said before, the point of the scans what not to show that Dracula is the end all be all, but to show that many consider him a major threat. The fact that he has used his powers and abilities to go toe to toe with the likes of Apocolspe, Thor, Lady Sif, Silver surfer, means that a victory of him a a major one.

It is plot device because your trying to pass off Amped feats as the norm :/ he had no amped feats vs Blade, or Werewolf by Night which he loses in. Your mostly using ABC Logic with out of context feats.

Why are you using feats from Buffy and then Condamning me for using comparing feats. Angel is not Buffy and as far as I know, Buffy Beat Angel in all of their 1v1 serious fights. They didn't stalemate, he got beat. So what's the point of all that? To suggest that Angel can do it to? I don't buy that.

Im not condemning you at all for using comparing feats. Your using feats of out of context power amp Dracula and acting like that is what Blade beaten when he never fought a version of Dracula like that.

Your using the classic example of "Batman kicked down Specter with a kick in the face, so he can beat Superman with a kick," when that is all out of context.

Buffy on the other hand is consistent in all the feats I showed to her average skill and showing, yet Angel compares to her easy. Thats the proper way to compare characters.

Wait, what??? I just posted Blade dodging Bullets in flight and Lasers. What are you talking about. You are lowballing Blade or you are talking about thinks without putting the truly into contexts. For example.

There is the brief fight Blade had with Gambit that you keep referencing. Here is the part you are leaving out. This fight was Pre-Daywalker. Blade did not have Vamp stats at this point and easily kept up with Gambit and other Vamps. You're saying that Blade has never shown consistent speed but the fact of the matter is, he has. Pre-Daywalker Blade was Battling Vamps and Supers on Raw skills but never really bested any. Like is first encounter with Spiderman. I'll post some scans and break it down for you.

Honestly ever speed feat you showed is something Cap, Daredevil, Iron Fist, ect have all done. And none of them are as fast as Spider Man best speed feats period :/

Even as a Vampire and with the amp from the Darkhold, he gets tagged regularly by Hannibal Laser gun and Ghost Rider's chains.

Seems inconsistent.

Here we see that Pre-Daywalker Blade had Manage to Capture The Vampire Sage. After this he is attacked from Behind by Spiderman. This would have put down any normal person, but Blade tanks, cuts through web but is still out maneuvered. This allows Sage to escape and Spiderman even says that the Vampire is too fast, so he just tosses a tracker. Later that fight and even with the Spider sense, Spiderman was unable to avoid being attack and would have been killed if not for Blade. That is not only a testament to Blade skill and durability, but shows what he was dealing with before he had powers. Then you look at the Blade vs Vamp spiderman.

Blade deals with Vamp parker easily. Disabling him. This is consistent with the fact that Spiderman has struggled against Vamp's before. Showing that Blade got a major increase in his speed and strength.

All that being said you are using scans without the actual context the same why you claimed I was. An out of control Swtich Blade (Blade with Powers for those who don't know) getting tagged by the Ghost Rider makes way more sense that Angel being nearly beaten to death with a bat by a pissed of Giles.

Giles beating Angel with a bat seems like Season Two Buffy, and way before the the better choreography of Angel Seasons 1-5 and comics where Angel is far from beaten by a Baseball bat.

Added to that the Context of Giles being one of the greatest non witch, human Magic users in the Buffy Verse.

At least I am not trying to convince people Blade is faster than Spider Man, or can beat Thor level Dracula.

Angel has consistently beaten Dragons.

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Example like this one. angel fights it with just a sword, and must compete with the Dragon, and its powerful demonic bodyguard.

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Here with no prep or gear angel takes on 3 super powerful supernatural beings. He kills two of them on the fly.

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Here Angel faces Alexia. Alexia who is a Watcher, a super Vampire Hunter human, who was then boosted in stats by Black Magic, and given Anti Vampire weapons. She fights a already injured Angel who just got ambushed by 3 demons, and yet she cannot begin to finish off this bad shape, prepless, surprised attacked Angel.

Unlike Blade who uses tons of gear, has foreknowledge, ect Angel does all this against powerful beings with nothing.

See again, I've never said Blade was quicksilver. Never once. What I pointed out with scans is that Blade has on panel dodged lasers while leaving after images. That is not aim dodging. He has dodged though Bullets and punched Deadpool in the face. That's not aim dodging. He battled Spitfire who is a speedster. Dodging real bullets and lasers trumps dodging wooden bullets and stakes. I've already posted the scans. Blade is the faster of the two.

Lets say he is faster, is it enough to be a gap, not at all. Leaving after images is a feat peak humans do in Manga all the time, and research I done for speed calcs show anything over speeds of 300 FPS can cause a after image to human eyes. Not that fast.

Dude, come on. Healing potions might now be "Black Magic" but still. It's magic. Blade, as a man, was punched through a stone castle wall and got right back up. Based of Angels fall he would not have tanked this. Truthfully, this is kinda unimportant. I was just matching your Human angel feats with Human Blade feats. In that regard, as normal mean, Blade is stronger. I could stretch it and say it implies Blade has higher base stats, but it's unimportant.

Blade was born half vampire, and you think that means nothing? But drinking healing potions for just healing is unbelievable? Lets move on.

Just like Blade isn't going to be winning over any A lister unlike the world suddenly falls in love with him. I understand plot and it's use. The reason I brought it is to point out, Angel, was serious hurt by it. Just a flaming bat and normal man rage. No magic, no cool fighting. He shoot him with an arrow and the started beating him. I'll even admit, Angel came back at the end and was probably going to kill him if Buffy didn't save him. But Angel walked away blooded and bruised by a normal man. That has not happen to Blade after he became The Daywalker.

Vampires are actually more susceptible to fire in Buffy verse. A fire is one of the few things that takes forever for a Vampire to heal from. So beaten with Magic Fire from one of the best practitioners of magic is not surprising to put Angel down.

Yes, there are a few things that are left to be said about his durability and healing. I want to say first, it's an impressive feat. However, one that is trumped by Blades actions. Tanking that Bomb ground zero is impressive., however look at the too scans.

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We can get an example of the yield of the explosion based on the damage to the surrounding area. The Building blade was suffered much more structural damage than that of Angel and Spike. Thus we can see that Blade has tanked more force in damage than Angel.

Good Thing angel is using a sword of fire to cut and burn instead of kinetic energy of a explosion shockwave :)

No, I'm pointing out that you are mistaken and gave out misleading information. Buffy vamps are hurt regardless by holy objects of any type. You left that out alone with the minor weakness of entering building. Marvel Vamps are not hurt by holy object unless used by a believer. Thus it would be hit or miss rather or not they are even useful.

Not true, Blade Vampires like Dracula are completely powerless in front of a Holy symbol of any kind with faith behind it. Angel vampires say ouch and move on. Big difference. Buffy Vampires are not particularly weak to it.

No you're attacking my credibility again. Especially given that number of times you have used other people feats to make Angel look go without actually showing that he has the ability to reproduce the feat. and when did I say Thing >Wolverine? Where did I post that. I only pointed out that Thing has shown the ability to best Wolverine. Not that he is better. So when you see Blade Dancing around Thing like he's a non threat, you get an idea of what it's an impressive feat. Unlike you, I actually show Blade doing the things I say he can do. You have repeatedly stated that Blades feats are not legit but have no proof to suggest otherwise.

Thing is not super fast, nor impressive skilled fighter. he is a slow brawler honestly in 95% of showings. Wolverine on the other hand likes to tank damage in 95% of his showings. Neither one is impressive for what your trying to use it for.

1-3: I feat any trained martial artist could do.

LOL show me a real life human doing that feat. I dare ya.

9:Plexiglass is a type of plastic. This is not an impressive feat in the world of superhumans.

This made me laugh to, this si bullet proof plastic and used for the underwater pressures of deep oceans. Hardly just plastic :)

Blade's Bio is as meaningless in a debate of feats as an opinion. Angel is likely at 1/2 - 1 ton. Blade is easily over 6.

Bios should not be dismissed so easily as they are official in many ways to the company that owns the character right. your basing 6 tons on what? opinion? there is more proof of him being 1 toner in most feats period. It is consistent with the Bio.

As for the rest of your replies, it is mostly same stuff I covered or countered already. In the end I think Blade is no higher than Angel himself in stats, I do think angel is more skilled and straight forward with his attacks. I also think not being at all the typical Marvel Vampire that blade fights will throw him off as well. Should Blade cut out his heart like you said, then Angel becomes immortal for 24 hours lol.

Anyway Angel should win in a straight sword fight like this one.

(Overall, Thanks for the debate. Just wanted to put that out there before the results)

No problem. It was fun. Lets hope others enjoyed it while reading.

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#15 Posted by senglord (2773 posts) - - Show Bio

Does everyone get to vote?

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#16 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

1) Lindsy beat angel due to super human stats granted by the Glyphs he tattoo on himself.

2) Lindsy did not want to kill Angel at all, he simply wanted to gloat to the Senior Partners he was better than Angel to join their ranks.

There was no Plot device, just plot. Lindsy with his knowledge of Angel, Prep, and Super Human stats did beat Angel. He did not win overall as the third party intervened.

I didn't leave out context. I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Lindsey was without question trying to kill him. The plot device what that instead of taking his head, he stab him in the chest. That is the plot device (Or PIS) because he should have never made that mistake with his history and knowledge.

It is plot device because your trying to pass off Amped feats as the norm :/ he had no amped feats vs Blade, or Werewolf by Night which he loses in. Your mostly using ABC Logic with out of context feats.

No, again, you are missing the point. The point is Dracula is extremely capable. He has several battle achivements that are note worthy and makes him a high level threat and Blade has defeated him. That is the one and only point. Regardless of how he has managed to stand toe to toe with such high level beings, he has. That is the point. And drinking blood is not a plot device. It is an ability.

Honestly ever speed feat you showed is something Cap, Daredevil, Iron Fist, ect have all done. And none of them are as fast as Spider Man best speed feats period :/

I think I understand where our miscommunication is coming in here. I'm pretty sure I posted "pure speed, not reaction" when talking about being as fast as spiderman. Spiderman has the SS which allows him to react to thinks much sooner than anyone else. So he doesn't have to be as fast as a person that doesn't have pre-cog like he does. He reacts to things before they happen. Also, Parker gets tagged by vamps and has consistently every time he's had run ins with them. So, I think you are under the impression that he is faster than Vamps. But he's been beaten up many times before by them. He's not much faster than them, if he is at all.

At least I am not trying to convince people Blade is faster than Spider Man, or can beat Thor level Dracula.

I never said that.

Unlike Blade who uses tons of gear, has foreknowledge, ect Angel does all this against powerful beings with nothing.

This isn't true.

Blade once broke free of being crucifed and ended an entire room full of vamps. He fought the reaper good to a draw until sunrise and over powered it and let if fry above his head and this was right after he was inside of the shield carrier that crashed and exploded.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9

so, yeah.

Not true, Blade Vampires like Dracula are completely powerless in front of a Holy symbol of any kind with faith behind it.

Dude, I posted a scan showing that isn't true. If you are not a believer, it doesn't work on them at all.

Thing is not super fast, nor impressive skilled fighter.

Anyone who can go toe to toe with the Hulk and Red Hulk is a serious problem. Nuff said.

LOL show me a real life human doing that feat. I dare ya.

Done.

Loading Video...

This made me laugh to, this si bullet proof plastic and used for the underwater pressures of deep oceans. Hardly just plastic :)

You're thinking of Ballistics's glass man.

Bios should not be dismissed so easily as they are official in many ways to the company that owns the character right. your basing 6 tons on what? opinion? there is more proof of him being 1 toner in most feats period. It is consistent with the Bio.

Dude, the fact is, the opposite is true. The reason why people disregard the Bio's often is because, like Blade, feats often contradict that. Here is another example. Officially, Captain American cannot lift over a ton, but we know that is not true.



In closing, Blade is above Angel in many different areas. That being said, even if Angel survives the speed Blitz, Blade could still over power him with his strength. Should both become disarmed, Blade will without question over come in in hand to hand combat. I don't think you have proved enough to show that Angel will be able stand toe to toe with Blade for a very long time.


Alright. Let's get the voting started. We'll leave it open until tomorrow afternoon.

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#17 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster: I just wanted to say I confused for some reason the Kicking Punching Bag across a room with smashing Wooden and Brick crap LOL. You posted that Video and I was like, "No duh people can smash though wood and crap, where is the Punching Bag feat?"

Just to clarify on that one.

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#18 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Huh? you said

1-3) Easily smashes through solid wooden structures.

and then I said

1-3: I feat any trained martial artist could do.

I think you may have mis-read my post or something. That's what I was referring too.

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#19 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.
Come on guys. Lets get some votes.

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#20 Posted by NightwingX (525 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by dondave (41747 posts) - - Show Bio

Bossmonster gets my vote

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#23 Edited by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you.


Score is 1-1

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#24 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on guys. Let's get some more votes. We put in work on this. Who do you think had the better argument?

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#25 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@bossmonster wins imo. I believed his argument on Blade being faster, stronger, more durable, etc. based on scans. The skill seems in Blade's favor in well. Angel was good, but more closer to Cap America good, and not Spidey/Blade good.

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#26 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 gets my vote. He had more knowledgeable rebuttals throughout the debate.

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#27 Posted by senglord (2773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cadencev2 gets my vote. His points seemed clearer, and his counter arguments were more clean and direct. The references were also a good aspect to rebuttals.

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#28 Posted by jwalser3 (6127 posts) - - Show Bio

So much respect thread dumping...
@cadencev2 gets my vote

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#29 Posted by AllStarSuperman (42623 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow. I'm actually really shocked it's so neck and neck. Good stuff.

3-4 in votes.

Come on guys, take you're pick.

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#31 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3 said:

So much respect thread dumping...

YUUUP! lol

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#32 Posted by Bossmonster (3088 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I thought we would get more votes than this, but oh well.

Well done dude. You are the winner. Congrats.

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#33 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio