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#1 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

Repped by @joewell!!

VS

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Repped by @emperorthanos!!

Rules

  • Both are morals on, but determined to win.
  • Basic knowledge but no prep.
  • Win by KO, kill, or incapacitation.
  • Beard Ninja is equipped with his sword, shurikens, and handgun.
  • King Bradley has his six swords.
  • Fight takes place here-
No Caption Provided
  • Starting distance is 25 feet.

Challenge A Viner Rules

  • Do not start extra arguments, post unnecessary scans/videos or interfere in the debate itself in any way. If you wish to inform either of us on anything important or correct us on a point, send us a private message.
  • If any of the above is excessively broken, we may request a mod to assist.
  • Your vote should be decided based on the debating quality and abilities of the participants. Not necessarily on the characters they are representing.
  • A reason for your voting choice would be greatly appreciated too.
  • Regular posting/commenting is fine.
  • As always, may the best debaters win.
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#2 Edited by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Let's make this one a good one, shall we?

Beard Ninja

"Wetness is the essence of water, and water is the essence of wetness."

Beard Ninja is a stickman ninja with a beard (Wow! Who'd a thunk it?) that's often hunted and harassed for his powerful sword. There's little to be known of his backstory, training, or origin of his powers. All we know is what he can do, and he can do some pretty amazing things.

Powers, Stats, and Abilities

See what I mean? Pretty amazing.

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The Fight

King Bradley is quite the badass himself, I won't lie, but Beard Ninja has a couple advantages that'll give him the win in this battle.

Strength and Superior Weaponry

In many fights, strength wouldn't change much about the outcome of the duel. But here, I believe it could effect a lot.

First, it'd allow him to push Bradley back in every sword clash they do. This means The Fuhrer will be mostly on the defensive and will have to be extremely careful when blocking the enemies slashes. If he messes up or fails to hold back Beard Ninja's attack, this could happen-

No Caption Provided

Then he'd be in trouble.

Second, it could let him be able to snap Bradley's swords. They're no more than normal metal, and with his strength and sharp swords Beard Ninja could easily go through them. He was able to do so to thicker and more durable metal, so why not those tiny little swords?

Fatality!
Fatality!

If that's to happen, Bradley will quickly fall. Without a means to block or counter attack, it's game over.

Speed and Skill

Now I know Bradley's superb speed is going to be brought into this debate at some point. The bullet timing, the tank shell slicing, all the blitzing, it's all very impressive. But, Beard Ninja can match every single speed feat Bradley has, guaranteed.

Bullet timing?

Check!
Check!

Slicing large projectiles with his sword?

Bam!
Bam!

Oh! But what about the FTE multi-slash?!

Beard Ninja don't play!
Beard Ninja don't play!

So as you can see, Bradley doesn't hold any significant advantage here.

Now on skill, another place where the King of Amestris accels. I'm going to go ahead and say they're about even here. They have similar feats in sword to sword and I'd say they'd pretty much stalemate if they were stripped of everything except their blade skills. I could go into more detail why (And probably will next post), but this post is getting long quick, so I'll leave it there for now.

The Almighty Beard

Look. Just. Look.

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What's Bradley to do? He's never faced a multi-directional attack such as this and it's highly unlikely he'll know what to do. Sure he could try to dodge, but I count over ten large extra phalanges that'll all be attacking him at once and that can do so from any angle. It's very likely he'll be overwhelmed and brought down by this.

Well, I think that's enough for this post. Your go, buddy!

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#3 Posted by The-Seeffiss17 (1753 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: What's he from? Seems like a fun character, lol. Also T4V man!

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#4 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: What's he from? Seems like a fun character, lol. Also T4V man!

He's from a two part animation series on youtube. I'd highly recommend, it's really sweet. Here's a link.

Will do!

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#5 Posted by deactivated-5aba78567e8b5 (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V please

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#6 Posted by garrettmana (2585 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#7 Posted by emperorthanos- (16371 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: my turn

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Fuhrer King Bradley/Wrath

King Bradley is one of the primary antagonists in the Fullmetal Alchemist series, being that he is one of the seven Homunculi. Bradley was also the original Führer of Amestris. In the manga series and the 2009 anime reboot, he was known as Wrath, the final homunculus created by Father, but was changed in the 2003 anime to Pride, created by the ancient alchemist Dante. In both series, Bradley is the leader of Amestris and is seen to have almost inhuman swordsmanship. However, in the manga and 2009 anime series, he is an important character being that Amestris was created for the sole purpose of exacting Father's plan to become the ultimate being.

- FMA Wikia

Power and Abilities

  1. Superhuman Strength
  2. Superhuman Speed
  3. Superhuman Durability
  4. Superhuman Endurance
  5. Superhuman Agility
  6. Superhuman Reflexes
  7. Superhuman Stamina
  8. Enhanced senses (Ultimate eye)
  9. Precognition(Ultimate Eye)
  10. Expert Swordsman

Speed and reflexes

This is probably the most important advantage of Fuhrer has.

He is easily a bullet timer. He is able to dodge bullets from multiple soldiers using automated rifles with no difficulty at all. And then kills all three of them in one strikes

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he was fast enough to create a after image.

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Even beard ninja doesn't have that speed.

More over Bradley was able to deal with both Greed/Ling and Fu at the same time. Both of those two are bullet timers as well. So Bradely is fast enough to deal with two bullet timers at once.

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Strength and Weaponry

Beard ninja has the strength factor but it doesn't really matter against Bradley. He isn't going to be pushed back even if his opponent has superior strength.

He was putting Greed/Ling on the back foot despite the strength difference.

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And Greed is pretty darn strong mind you. He was able to punch though a truck and damage its engine to cause it to explode.

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This should show that strength won't play a factor.

As for his swords, they are definitely something special. Only Greeds ultimate shields have broken them. and that thing tanks tank blasts with nor problem.

He was able to rip apart a tank with just a single sword

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and he destroyed Buccaneers automail with no problem either

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His swords aren't breaking a easily as you think

Ultimate eye

Bradley's homonculus power is his ultimate eye.

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Here is what the eye does

it apparently grants him tremendously accurate vision and the ability to read and predict practically any move his opponent could make as well as the minute details and movements of his general surroundings.

- FMA wikia

This basally allows him to know what his opponent his doing immateriality and even predict what he can do next. so he can counter it.

He is used to find out where a bomb in a train is and learn the best way to escape the bomb.

No Caption Provided

Initial considerations

  1. Bradley's biggest advantage is that he is faster than Beard Ninja.
  2. His swords are really strong and won't be broken as easily as you think.
  3. Strength of Beard Ninja won't matter as he was able to put Greed/Ling on the back foot.
  4. He can dodge all of Beard Ninja's long range weapon with nor problem.
  5. His Ultimate ye will com in handy when dealing with the beard

I also wanted to put this in. As a rebuttal to that crazy beard.

No Caption Provided

Now that is Bradly that his severely wounded and has lost the use of his eye. A healthy Bradly will be able to deal with it.

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#8 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Nice!

Counters-Round 1

Speed

This is probably the most important advantage of Fuhrer has.

What, my first post wasn't enough to convince you? Like I've said, Beard Ninja has replicated pretty much all of his feats.

He is easily a bullet timer. He is able to dodge bullets from multiple soldiers using automated rifles with no difficulty at all. And then kills all three of them in one strikes

Which is just this-

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Plus this-

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Nothing Beard Ninja couldn't do.

he was fast enough to create a after image.

That's not even as impressive as bullet timing.

More over Bradley was able to deal with both Greed/Ling and Fu at the same time. Both of those two are bullet timers as well. So Bradely is fast enough to deal with two bullet timers at once.

Don't remember GreedLing ever bullet timing, care to refresh my memory?

Fu's doing it was most likely simple aim dodging, not actually reacting to the bullets like Beard Ninja and Bradley do. I say this because if we look here:

No Caption Provided

We can pretty clearly see that he's just outrunning the aim of the turret, not the bullets themselves. This is impressive, yes, but not quite on the level of Bradley's current opponent.

I may admit that Bradley has a very slight speed advantage, pretty much what he had over Greed. But, like Greed, Beard Ninja is fast enough to keep up and eventually defeat Bradley with his other advantages.

Strength

Beard ninja has the strength factor but it doesn't really matter against Bradley. He isn't going to be pushed back even if his opponent has superior strength.

I disagree, I think it'll change a lot.

He was putting Greed/Ling on the back foot despite the strength difference.

There's a difference. Greed wasn't using a sword and wasn't clashing with him like Beard Ninja will be. If he did, he would have.

As for his swords, they are definitely something special. Only Greeds ultimate shields have broken them. and that thing tanks tank blasts with nor problem.

Beard Ninja's cyborg copy cat Moustache Ninja had similar durability.

No Caption Provided

But Beard Ninja could easily cut through him.

I will admit they are stronger than I originally gave credit for, but they aren't more durable than Moustache Ninja. And because the magical blade was able to cut through him, I believe that Bradley's swords should suffer the same fate after only three or four clashes. Once that happens, Bradley will quickly be defeated and Beard Ninja will take the match.

Ultimate Eye

his basally allows him to know what his opponent his doing immateriality and even predict what he can do next. so he can counter it.

When is this ever implied? Sure, it let him see the path to take to run across the rubble, but I don't remember it ever being said or shown to be full blown pre-cog.

Until you show me some more solid proof that is what is does, I'm not seeing it be a huge asset.

Beard

I also wanted to put this in. As a rebuttal to that crazy beard.

Now that is Bradly that his severely wounded and has lost the use of his eye. A healthy Bradly will be able to deal with it.

So you're gonna leave out the part right after that where he's actually tagged by that?

Ouchie
Ouchie

Basically proves my point. By large, omnidirectional attacks Bradley can be hit. But unlike Scar's alchemy the Beard can actively chase him down, and when it hits him it'll straight up tear him apart instead of throwing him back.

I honestly don't see him fairing much better than this guy-

No Caption Provided

Recap

  1. Bradley's biggest advantage is that he is faster than Beard Ninja.
  2. His swords are really strong and won't be broken as easily as you think.
  3. Strength of Beard Ninja won't matter as he was able to put Greed/Ling on the back foot.
  4. He can dodge all of Beard Ninja's long range weapon with nor problem.
  5. His Ultimate ye will com in handy when dealing with the beard
  1. If he's faster it's not by a lot. They pretty much have all the same feats and Beard Ninja will be able to keep up just fine.
  2. They aren't stronger than other things Beard Ninja has been able to cut through and should break after just a couple hits.
  3. GreedLing didn't have the same weaponry Beard Ninja does and didn't clash with Bradley like he will.
  4. I agree with you here, but if he decides to use it up close it may be a problem. Bradley has proven to be able to be tagged by guns while distracted, so if Beard Ninja is fighting him up close with the sword then decides to use the gun, I can see the Fuhrer getting hit.
  5. But just like Scar did, I believe the Beard could indeed tag him. And it would do lots more damage than the alchemical pillars.

Passing the torch, your go!

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#9 Posted by emperorthanos- (16371 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters/Rebuttals

Speed

What, my first post wasn't enough to convince you? Like I've said, Beard Ninja has replicated pretty much all of his feats.

The difference is Bradley was able to dodge fire from multiple guns whilst beard ninja was only able to dodge fire a from a single gun.

But I don't think beard ninja as anything close to blocking automatic gun fire from a tank

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Don't remember GreedLing ever bullet timing, care to refresh my memory?

Fu's doing it was most likely simple aim dodging, not actually reacting to the bullets like Beard Ninja and Bradley do.

Can't seem to find Ling's bullet dodging though I remember it happeneing

He was able to move fast enough to Fu out of Wraths path mid swing.

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But I have something more quantifiable.

And injured Bradley without his ultimate eye was able to keep up with Scar

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well how fast is Scar well he himself is a bullet timer.

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I may admit that Bradley has a very slight speed advantage, pretty much what he had over Greed. But, like Greed, Beard Ninja is fast enough to keep up and eventually defeat Bradley with his other advantages.

Greed was never fast enough to tag him though. Beard Ninja is not going to be able to land a hits with his swords against Bradley's speed.

Strength

There's a difference. Greed wasn't using a sword and wasn't clashing with him like Beard Ninja will be. If he did, he would have.

Yes he doesn't have a weapon but he was clashing with Bradley, throwing punches that Bradley was able to deflect

No Caption Provided

There is also the gif above where you can see Bradely cutting right through a tank bullet

Beard Ninja's cyborg copy cat Moustache Ninja had similar durability.

But Beard Ninja could easily cut through him.

Bradley was able to match Greed indestructible shield on multiple occasions. And Greed was able to cut through a truck.

Bradley also has multiple swords, after one break he will be smart enough to avoid clashing and just dodge your attacks.

Ultimate eye

When is this ever implied? Sure, it let him see the path to take to run across the rubble, but I don't remember it ever being said or shown to be full blown pre-cog.

It not really a pre-cog. Think of it like a Sharingan. It allows him to study his opponents moves and learn their weaknesses.

Beard

So you're gonna leave out the part right after that where he's actually tagged by that?

Gif maker has a time limit. But my point was he managed to dodge all of that whilst severely injured to the point where he was throwing up blood.

Basically proves my point. By large, omnidirectional attacks Bradley can be hit. But unlike Scar's alchemy the Beard can actively chase him down, and when it hits him it'll straight up tear him apart instead of throwing him back.

I honestly don't see him fairing much better than this guy-

Thats three fists versus several of those logs. And Bradley was extremely injured, a Fully healthy Bradley is much faster.

And Bradley will be closing the gap to Beard Ninjay not trying to run away from him. And his ultimate will be able to read his movement and find any weak spots.

Conclusion

  1. If he's faster it's not by a lot. They pretty much have all the same feats and Beard Ninja will be able to keep up just fine.
  2. They aren't stronger than other things Beard Ninja has been able to cut through and should break after just a couple hits.
  3. GreedLing didn't have the same weaponry Beard Ninja does and didn't clash with Bradley like he will.
  4. I agree with you here, but if he decides to use it up close it may be a problem. Bradley has proven to be able to be tagged by guns while distracted, so if Beard Ninja is fighting him up close with the sword then decides to use the gun, I can see the Fuhrer getting hit.
  5. But just like Scar did, I believe the Beard could indeed tag him. And it would do lots more damage than the alchemical pillars.

Passing the torch, your go!

  • The difference is that big, but it is still a different that will make the difference here. And Beard ninja won't be able to tag him.
  • His weapons are still considerably strong and won't break easily. He has 4 back up swords as well and can will kill Beard ninja before his swords break
  • Greedling's armor is stronger than Beard Ninja's sword and he did clash with Bradley.
  • That has only happened when he is fighting multiple opponents not a single person.
  • Scar only managed to tag him once when he was severely injured and had no ultimate eye. He would not have been hit if he was fully healthy.

@joewell post is up

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#10 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: How many more rounds we doing?

Counters-Round 2

Speed

The difference is Bradley was able to dodge fire from multiple guns whilst beard ninja was only able to dodge fire a from a single gun.

But I don't think beard ninja as anything close to blocking automatic gun fire from a tank

Bradley dodged exactly four bullets. Beard Ninja dodged many more than that while sprinting towards the gun. His feat is more impressive.

He's already dodged automatic gunfire, don't think it being from a tank makes it faster.

Plus this-

Can't touch this!
Can't touch this!

He even hits the shooter with his own bullet.

Can't seem to find Ling's bullet dodging though I remember it happeneing

He was able to move fast enough to Fu out of Wraths path mid swing.

But I have something more quantifiable.

And injured Bradley without his ultimate eye was able to keep up with Scar

well how fast is Scar well he himself is a bullet timer.

Pretty sure it never did.

Not saying he isn't fast, but he has no feats of bullet timing like you claim.

Yep, but Scar is less skilled, strong, and fast than Beard Ninja. The fact that Scar, Fu, and GreedLing, all people who are slower than Beard Ninja, were able to keep up with Bradley proves that Beard Ninja, someone who has mimics just about all his speed feats, can more than keep up with and beat the king here.

Greed was never fast enough to tag him though. Beard Ninja is not going to be able to land a hits with his swords against Bradley's speed.

Woah there, might be forgetting something-

No Caption Provided

And Bradley wasn't able to land many hits on Greed either. If he can keep KB on edge, Beard Ninja should be able to keep up just fine with his better feats.

Strength

Yes he doesn't have a weapon but he was clashing with Bradley, throwing punches that Bradley was able to deflect

Fine, I'll concede this point then. No pushing back. Wasn't really important anyways.

But I'm still saying he's strong enough to break the swords.

Bradley was able to match Greed indestructible shield on multiple occasions. And Greed was able to cut through a truck.

Bradley also has multiple swords, after one break he will be smart enough to avoid clashing and just dodge your attacks.

Nope, not really. When Greed through a punch and it hit the sword, it broke. When Bradley swung and hit the shield, the sword broke again.

No Caption Provided

If that can do it, why can't the cutting weapon that equals it's feats in durability and is wielded by someone arguably as strong do so?

I doubt he could do that. Beard Ninja is just as fast and skilled, he'll be able to tag a weaponless Bradley.

He'd also probably take damage on the breaking of the sword itself, like he did with Greed. Considering the length of the sword, he might even die after he's caught by surprise and the sword snaps.

Ultimate eye

It not really a pre-cog. Think of it like a Sharingan. It allows him to study his opponents moves and learn their weaknesses.

Any warrior who's smart can do that. It won't be that big of an advantage here.

Beard

Gif maker has a time limit. But my point was he managed to dodge all of that whilst severely injured to the point where he was throwing up blood.

Sign up and it doesn't. It's totes worth it. 20 second gifs+a free cataloging of all your previously made gifs. All for free!

Sign up today and get another gif half off!
Sign up today and get another gif half off!

He was also tagged tho. By a more mobile, fast, and deadly attack he'll surely be hit.

Thats three fists versus several of those logs. And Bradley was extremely injured, a Fully healthy Bradley is much faster.

And Bradley will be closing the gap to Beard Ninjay not trying to run away from him. And his ultimate will be able to read his movement and find any weak spots.

There was four pillars, with the fifth hitting him. Beard Ninja can do five easy. The Beard is faster and can go in a non linear path to attack, making it harder to dodge.

He'll still have trouble dodging multiple tendrils of hair that at following him and can kill him after grabbing him once. At the very least, he's taking some damage.

Not sure why that matters. He can activate the Beard whenever, even in mid combat.

No Caption Provided

Bradley's running at him, he steps back and BAM! A half a dozen hair arms are ready to tear him up.

And what about Beard Grenade?

No Caption Provided

It has huge AoE, and it's not like Bradley will know to dodge (In fact, he'll probably just try to deflect it off his sword or ignore it, thinking it's a distraction.). This could easily be the second death of Bradley here.

Conclusion

  • The difference is that big, but it is still a different that will make the difference here. And Beard ninja won't be able to tag him.
  • His weapons are still considerably strong and won't break easily. He has 4 back up swords as well and can will kill Beard ninja before his swords break
  • Greedling's armor is stronger than Beard Ninja's sword and he did clash with Bradley.
  • That has only happened when he is fighting multiple opponents not a single person.
  • Scar only managed to tag him once when he was severely injured and had no ultimate eye. He would not have been hit if he was fully healthy.
  • Bruh. Four people slower than Bradley were able to. A more skilled, stronger, and faster opponent will be able to.
  • They'll break after two or three clashes at most. It takes time to get out another sword and he can be killed far easier in that time.
  • How? Greed's armor's best feat is tanking an RPG, right? Beard Ninja's Sword deflected RPG-like energy balls and was able to cut in half someone who tanked them.
  • But he was hit. If he was hit with a slower, smaller, and more predictable attack while slightly hindered he can be hit by a faster, larger, and more sporadic attack while not. Especially if used in the middle of combat or as a grenade.

Other Points:

  • Bradley has a huge chance of dying or being severely injured when his sword breaks and he's surprised, like he was by the slower and less equipped Greed.
  • Beard Grenade is a powerful tool Bradley has no counter for.
  • Bradley also wasn't able to land many hits on GreedLing, whose slower than Beard Ninja. What's Bradley gonna do here, against a fast and more skilled fighter? (Hint: The answer is lose.)

Back to you!

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#11 Posted by emperorthanos- (16371 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: I post my second rebuttal and then we do closers?

So we both have to rebuttals each, I feel that should be enough.

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#12 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: I post my second rebuttal and then we do closers?

So we both have to rebuttals each, I feel that should be enough.

Cool, but make sure no to bring up anything new or I will be countering it in my closer.

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#13 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by emperorthanos- (16371 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell: I will have it by the end of the day.

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#15 Posted by emperorthanos- (16371 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter/Rebuttals

Speed

Bradley dodged exactly four bullets. Beard Ninja dodged many more than that while sprinting towards the gun. His feat is more impressive.

No Caption Provided

They definitely shot more bullets that we didn't see.

Yep, but Scar is less skilled, strong, and fast than Beard Ninja. The fact that Scar, Fu, and GreedLing, all people who are slower than Beard Ninja, were able to keep up with Bradley proves that Beard Ninja, someone who has mimics just about all his speed feats, can more than keep up with and beat the king here.

GreedLing and Fu were only keeping up because the other would intervene before the other would get killed.

As for Scar, he was not keeping up, he was still getting sliced despite being a bullet timer and Bradley being extremely injured. Scar's construction alchemy kept him alive.

The speed difference here isn't major but is still present.

Woah there, might be forgetting something-

And Bradley wasn't able to land many hits on Greed either. If he can keep KB on edge, Beard Ninja should be able to keep up just fine with his better feats.

I'm sure you are aware of the context of the strike. Bradley had just been fighting and was stabbed by Buccaneer when Greed got a surprise hit on him.

In this fight Bradley isn't fighting anyone else.

Strength

Nope, not really. When Greed through a punch and it hit the sword, it broke. When Bradley swung and hit the shield, the sword broke again.

No Caption Provided

Here he clashes with Greed with his sword not breaking immediately. Though it will after a couple of strikes.

I doubt he could do that. Beard Ninja is just as fast and skilled, he'll be able to tag a weaponless Bradley.

Bradley could always do this to avoid that from happening immediately.

No Caption Provided

Beard

@joewell

Well pretty much everything else is pointless in arguing if Bradley can't deal with the beard. And after truly seeing what the beard is capable off, I don't think Bradley has the feats to deal with the Grenades and the arms and whatever else it has.

I'm going to concede, I apologies for wasting your time but I underestimated you character when I chose mine. However I would like to debate you and BeardNinja again hopefully with a character thats better match. If you are up for it.

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5b57e3c01b199 (76 posts) - - Show Bio

@joewell:Hey this Emperor. Just though I'd tag you again just incase.

And again sorry for wasting your time, I would like to debate you again if you don't mind, hopefully with a chracter that's a better match up for BeardNinja

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#17 Posted by Joewell911 (14729 posts) - - Show Bio

@lastdragonborn: I've been having lots of problems with my account after the switch, that's why I haven't been able to respond.

It's no problem at all. Honorably conceding is much much better than not responding at all and abandoning the debate completely. I'm just thankful you didnt do that.

I'd be fine with another CaV with Beard Ninja, but you'd have to wait until after my current CaV with @banthabot.