CaV: Batman (Lubub55) vs Snake Eyes (EmperorThanos) [VOTING CLOSED]

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Rules:

  • Post-Crisis Batman (Bruce Wayne)
  • Compsite Snake Eyes
  • In-character
  • Standard equipment
  • Random encounter
  • No previous knowledge
  • Standard elimination rules apply
  • Opponents start in sight of one another
  • Both begin on opposing rooftops, but can move to others or go down to street level
  • City not populated and the fight begins during the nighttime. It can go into daytime if the fight takes that long
  • No access to vehicles

Battleground

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Begin!

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Definitely T4V.

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T4v. Already seen a cav on this but this could be good.

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#6 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: they are tagging for votes.

Anyway who goes first?

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#9  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: I'm probably only going to be able to post by tomorrow. So you should probably go fist.

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#10 Lunacyde  Moderator

T4V

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Tfv

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@emperorthanos: Ok then, let's start. [EDIT: Sorry about the horrible formatting before, this is my first CaV.]

Batman:

Strength

Batman is far stronger than any real life human, and stronger than almost any other comic book peak human. For starters...

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Here he is catching a giant sarcophagus and using a grapple to stop another one from falling. Bear in mind that he is supporting both simultaneously and sarcophagi typically weigh around or above 2 tons. This level of strength is not inconsistent as...

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He is seen effortlessly lifting 1,045lbs after just having woken up as standard exercise. Snake Eyes' armour won't make much of a difference as...

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Batman was able to snap Trigger's arm whilst he was wearing power armour. He didn't put much effort into it, either. Now, moving on to striking power...

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Batman was able to knock down a concrete column with only one kick, despite tanking gunshots previously. Note that this happened during his early days of being Batman, so his Batsuit is a lot more durable now than it is here.

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In that same fight, he is capable of punching someone through a brick wall.

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Whilst injured and dying from poison gas, Bruce nearly brakes through rocket-proof glass with punches and kicks. You heard that right.

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Batman one-shots Killer Croc here. Killer Croc has superhuman durability and is even immune to high caliber weapons fired from a distance.

Gear

Here, I will be going over Batman's gadgets/equipment. However, I will not talk about the durability his Batsuit gives him just yet.

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The Batsuit can give off a charge of 20,000 volts. This would be a good last resort if he gets taken down. Later I will explain why he won't need to do this though.

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Batman's cowl can give off sleeping gas strong enough to affect Solomon Grundy, a zombie. If Snake Eyes comes up close and manages to get the better of Bruce, he would be able to use this for an easy win.

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Batman has zooming and thermal imaging built into his cowl, rendering Snake Eyes' stealth useless.

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He also has Batnets to restrain his opponents. Yeah, I don't know either. :/

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Batman has meta-human handcuffs, which are able to restrain, well... meta-humans.

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As they are both in character, Batman will be trying to restrain or KO Snake Eyes. Luckily for him, he has a taser powerful enough to momentarily stun Superman.

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Batman has a non-lethal explosive similar to a landmine.

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Snake Eyes' biggest advantage in this fight is his lethal weapons. Unluckily for him, Batman has magnetic batarangs capable of taking his weapons from him. After that, Batman will be able to close the distance and engage him in close quarters.

Skill

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Batman is a master of every martial art known to man. All 127 of them.

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Because of this, and his great perception, he will be able to recognize the moves Snake Eyes makes and find a pattern in it. He will adapt his fighting style based off of this.

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From a choke, Batman states that he knows 463 ways to incapacitate the man without drawing blood. I think that is enough skill-based feats for now. I'll add more in my next post.

Durability

This category will show you why Snake Eyes will struggle to even hurt Batman.

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Batman survives a fall from a 30 story building with the help of acrobatics, so in the unlikely event that Batman falls not much will happen. Note that Batman dislocated his shoulder, but the buildings in the battleground are not as tall. He can also hold on with his grappling hook.

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Here he is taking a hit from Kid Amazo, someone with the strength of Superman. Speaking of which...

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Here he is actually taking a hit from a mind-controlled Superman. All-in-all, Snake Eyes' punches won't do much. As for Snake Eyes' guns...

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Here Batman tanks gunshots at close range with no noticeable effect.

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Submachine guns do not even faze or slow down Batman, let alone penetrate his armour.

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Batman can block bullets with his gauntlet. This also doubles as a speed feat, as it shows that he is able to react to bullets.

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Shooting Batman's mouth won't work either, as he has a transparent bulletproof shield which covers it.

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More proof that Batman can tank bullets.

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Batman tanks an explosion big enough to blow up a train, blow him out of it and make him fall a great distance. He gets up straight after and isn't badly hurt. He can most likely take any explosions Snake Eyes can dish out.

Combat speed/Reflexes

Batman is quick enough to consistently dodge most of Snake Eyes' attacks, and I intend to prove why.

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Here Batman dodges Supergirl's laser vision. You could make an argument for him aim dodging, but even so Kryptonians can surpass lightspeed so dodging them is not an easy feat to accomplish.

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Here, Batman hits Kid Flash and destroys Roy Harper's arrow with a batarang. Just so you know how insane that last feat is, Roy's nickname is Speedy because he fires arrows faster than Oliver Queen.

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These scans show that Batman is capable of dodging gunfire from Snake Eyes.

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If Snake Eyes decides to throw a grenade at Bruce, he is able to catch it and throw it someplace else. The city is unpopulated, so he wouldn't be careful about throwing it.

Stealth

Possibly Batman's greatest weapon. I have already shown why Snake Eyes' stealth will be useless in the gadgets section, now it's time for me to show why Batman won't be seen by Snake Eyes and why he can take him down without being seen.

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Here, Batman breaks into Area 51, one of the most secure military bases in the world. (I left out a few scans as there would be too many otherwise.

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Batman disappears from Azreal whilst still in his sight. That is physically impossible. Bear in mind that this isn't some random thug, it is someone so good that Bruce Wayne allowed him to take up the mantle of Batman when he was injured.

Conclusion

Batman's stealth advantage would be too much for Snake Eyes, and even if he is seen he has shown on multiple occasions that he can disappear without the other person looking away. He could set up non-lethal mines to incapacitate Snake Eyes, or he could go straight for the knockout. Batman has the equipment to detect Snake Eyes even when he's hiding. Even if Batman couldn't hide, he has the speed to dodge Snake Eyes' attacks, the durability to take hits from him, with or without equipment and still carry on fighting, the skill to outmaneuver him and beat him in H2H and the equipment to counter him, such as magnetic batarangs. And, as we all know...

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Batman >>> Galactus (I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist.)

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#13  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: Jeez. It's like you made an entire respect thread for an opener.

Anyway I will be able to get a post in by tomorrow.

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Tag. Its time for one of the arashikage brothers get a good cave against a worthy opponent

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#15  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

Snake Eyes.

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His arsenal

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Abilities

Speed

Snake eyes is extremely fast.

Blitzes a bunch of combat androids

Kills a bunch of soldier before they can react.

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Dodge a barrage of fire and disappears in plain sight.

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Deflects several bullets.

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Snake eyes has more than enough speed to keep up with Bats.

Strength

Snake Eyes is no slouch in this department either

Here out of reflex he grabs a ninja and throw her across the room.

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Destroys solid stone statues.

But Snake Eyes isn't going to be punching Batman he will slashing him. You have so far shown me blunt force damage and his resistance to bullets but susceptible to piercing damage.

Here Snake Eye is able to damage Starscream the transformer

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That itself should show that he will be able to pierce Batman's armor.

But here he is able to cut up a Robot that can with stand bullets

He can definitely damage Batman who doesn't have great piercing durability. (at least you haven't shown any)

Durability

Snake Eyes usually just avoids and dodge most of his attacks.

But here he is involved in crash landing from a helicopter. Despite his head being on fire he is still able to move and continue the mission.

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He goes through an experience so debilitating he shouldn't be able to stand up. Yet he goes on to beat a bun of combat androids. As shown earlier he goes on to blitz combat androids

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Skill

Snake Eyes is extremely skillful and has great senses. Which will show you why Batman is going to be able to get the drop on him, especially in a clear line of sight.

Fights and wins blindfolded

Sword throwing skills

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Marksmanship

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Can disappear in plain sight

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Stealth and knife throwing

Great leaping

Sensing abilities

Skill and Durability. Here he gets stabbed through the hand and get hit by and extremely power punch that causes a crater in the ground and he is still able to fight. He is also a master of a skill that even storm shadow doesn't know.

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Initial considerations

  1. Firstly Stealth plays a little factor here when the two characters are in plain sight. They can already be seen. But Snake Eyes can always sense where batman is.
  2. Also some of the things you have listed under equipment are not standard, like the meta-human cuffs. Why would have those in a random encounter against a human ninja? Standard Equipment is only things he carries on the regular when just fighting ordinary bad guys, not preparing for some big super villain.
  3. Their speed is very similar however Batman has been tagged by bullets on several occasions as seen in your duabiulity post whilst Snake eyes is rarely ever tagged by them
  4. Snake Eyes is durably enough to deal with blunt force damage or piercing damage whilst Batman has show far only been shown to be durable to blunt force while his suit can be pierced.
  5. Snake Eyes is able to damage Robot that are bullet proof and more such as the Transformer.
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#16 emperorthanos-  Moderator
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#17  Edited By micah007123

T4V

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Ends in Se....

I mean T4V

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Counters

Blitzes a bunch of combat androids

Kills a bunch of soldier before they can react.

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Here, Batman disarms and KOs a group of guards who already have their guns pointed at him, and he does it before any of them can even fire a shot. If you count, there are upwards of 14 guards.

Dodge a barrage of fire and disappears in plain sight.

In my last post, I showed about 5 examples of Batman dodging barrages of gunfire. As for disappearing from sight, I showed him doing the same thing when talking to Azreal.

Deflects several bullets.

I won't lie. This is very impressive. However, once Batman realises that Snake Eyes is able to deflect his batarangs, he won't rely on just throwing them, he will resort to trickery and deception. For example...

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He is capable of throwing an electrically charged batarang that gives off 10,000 volts. This would be especially useful against a metal sword. Even if the handle of Snake Eyes' sword is an electrical insulator, the charge is high enough to "jump the air gap." The shock may not affect him as much as if the handle was an electricity conductor, but it will still throw him off balance.

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Batman also has explosive batarangs capable of destroying Doomsday clones. They're not as durable as the actual Doomsday, so he would be willing to use them in character. If he throws batarangs like these after an array of normal ones, Snake Eyes will try to deflect it, which will not work out for him. Like I said in my previous post, Batman also has a taser capable of stunning Superman.

But Snake Eyes isn't going to be punching Batman he will slashing him. You have so far shown me blunt force damage and his resistance to bullets but susceptible to piercing damage.

I will not counter the points about his strength you made before, as you admitted that Batman is stronger, but Snake Eyes is not far behind, which I agree with. As for this point, you are right about piercing damage being his armour's weakness. I will show you why that won't be enough to make Batman lose the fight.

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Batman makes beating Ra's Al Ghul, the leader of the League of Assassins and arguably the most skilled swordsman in the world, look easy. Even after he picks up a sword.

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Here, Batman fights 50 ninja Man-Bats, who all have katanas and shrukien, similar to Snake Eyes'. He takes down 30 before he is overwhelmed.

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Here he almost effortlessly beats two vampires at once, who are both wielding piercing weapons. Bear in mind that vampires also have enhanced physicals.

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Off panel, he beats 15+ Man-Bat ninjas without his gadgets or even his batsuit. He is also unharmed, as you can see in the picture.

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Here he beats multiple League of Assassins assassins at once who all have swords.

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Here, Batman takes a massive beating including getting impaled through the chest. This shows that even if Snake Eyes were to get a clean stab through the chest, (which is unlikely, as he mostly slashes and lunging would leave him open to attack,) Batman can tank it and carry on fighting.

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The only way Snake Eyes has to hurt Batman is his sword. However, Bruce carries magnetic batarangs with him, which will disarm Snake Eyes. Then Batman's superior strength, skill, technique, gadgets, cunning, tactical prowess and comparable speed come into play.

Here Snake Eye is able to damage Starscream the transformer

Wait what? Why is he fighting a Transformer? I'm so confused. ;(

But here he is able to cut up a Robot that can with stand bullets

He can definitely damage Batman who doesn't have great piercing durability. (at least you haven't shown any)

I acknowledge that Snake Eyes' sword will be able to get past Bruce's armour, but I have shown that Batman is able to avoid people with piercing weapons in combat. Even vampires, who are enhanced. Even if Batman is hit and his armour is penetrated, he has the pain tolerance to carry on fighting. He is also able to disarm Snake Eyes, taking away his best advantage.

Snake Eyes usually just avoids and dodge most of his attacks.

Which will work some of the time, but with Batman's similar speed, superior skill and stamina, Snake Eyes will be unable to consistently dodge Batman's attacks. Then, Snake Eyes will be put down by Bruce's superior striking power and technique.

But here he is involved in crash landing from a helicopter. Despite his head being on fire he is still able to move and continue the mission.

That is good resistance against fire, but Batman will use other methods of putting him down. Whilst that feat is extremely impressive, him being able to tolerate that does not mean that he will be able to withstand Bruce's punches and gadgets. Does he have any durability feats against blunt force? Like I showed earlier, Batman is strong enough to one-hit Killer Croc, someone who is almost completely immune to bullets.

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Batman has high enough striking power to easily shatter Mr. Freeze's bulletproof helmet.

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His kicks hurt too. In my last post, I showed him nearly breaking through rocket-proof glass whilst dying from poison gas. Snake Eyes won't be able to tank more than a few hits from Bruce, and even one will weaken him.

He goes through an experience so debilitating he shouldn't be able to stand up. Yet he goes on to beat a bun of combat androids. As shown earlier he goes on to blitz combat androids

What experience? Are you talking about the helicopter crash? If so, Batman is quicker than androids and won't be as easy to blitz. Also, blunt force is a different kind of damage and would weaken him more. He also won't have any time to recover, whilst with the androids he had some rest time. I will go over why Snake Eyes' pain tolerence won't matter when I make my main point.

Snake Eyes is extremely skillful and has great senses. Which will show you why Batman is going to be able to get the drop on him, especially in a clear line of sight.

I showed in my last post that Batman can disappear from Azreal, even with a clear line of sight. Azreal is the man that Bruce chose to take up the mantle of Batman when he was injured, so that should tell you something about his perception. Bruce picked the next Batman based on more than fighting skills, after all.

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Even if you say that Snake Eyes has better senses than Azreal, here Batman disappears from Lois Lane, Catwoman and Superman whilst in plain sight. Kryptonians have super senses. He would also be able to break line of sight in order to sneak up on Snake Eyes.

Fights and wins blindfolded

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Here Batman easily beats Wildcat whilst blindfolded. I only showed the last scan though, as there were quite a few. I have already shown why Snake Eyes will be unable to detect Bruce and why Bruce will be able to detect Snake Eyes, so the fighting blindfolded thing doesn't really matter.

Sword throwing skills

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Marksmanship

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Can disappear in plain sight

As I have shown before, Batman can do that too. However, Snake Eyes' stealth will be useless as Batman has infrared vision which I showed earlier.

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He is capable of hearing an alarm three blocks away.

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He is capable of hearing people breathe. This shows that Snake Eyes' stealth will be useless against Batman. Does Snake Eyes have any feats which show he can detect Batman?

Stealth and knife throwing

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Great leaping

Will that help in a fight?

Sensing abilities

I've already countered that.

Skill and Durability. Here he gets stabbed through the hand and get hit by and extremely power punch that causes a crater in the ground and he is still able to fight. He is also a master of a skill that even storm shadow doesn't know.

I will get to this in my main argument. And as for the last part of your point...

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Batman knows a chest penetration technique that only 3 other people know.

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He also knows the Falling Leaf technique, which only two other living people know.

1. Firstly Stealth plays a little factor here when the two characters are in plain sight. They can already be seen. But Snake Eyes can always sense where batman is.

This is false, as Batman can disappear from view and track Snake Eyes, whilst Snake Eyes can't detect Batman even though he has great senses.

Also some of the things you have listed under equipment are not standard, like the meta-human cuffs. Why would have those in a random encounter against a human ninja? Standard Equipment is only things he carries on the regular when just fighting ordinary bad guys, not preparing for some big super villain.

That's a good point. Forget what I said about meta-human handcuffs. he doesn't need them anyway.

Their speed is very similar however Batman has been tagged by bullets on several occasions as seen in your duabiulity post whilst Snake eyes is rarely ever tagged by them

Batman isn't trying to dodge when he gets hit. He is trying to intimidate his opponent by showing them that their bullets are useless. The whole point of Batman is scaring the criminals.

Snake Eyes is durably enough to deal with blunt force damage or piercing damage whilst Batman has show far only been shown to be durable to blunt force while his suit can be pierced.

That is a good point, but I have already shown why Batman has the strength to overcome Snake Eyes' blunt force durability and how Batman can evade swords and tolerate being stabbed by them. I have also shown that Batman can disarm Snake Eyes.

Snake Eyes is able to damage Robot that are bullet proof and more such as the Transformer.

And I don't doubt that his sword can penetrate Batman's armour. See my previous point for more details.

Main argument

Batman has the stealth skills to disappear from Snake Eyes' sight, and has the senses and equipment to keep close tabs on Snake Eyes in case he disappears. He doesn't need to use stealth though. he is more than capable of evading Snake Eyes' sword as I have already shown, and he is more skilled than Snake Eyes, giving him a big advantage if they get close to one another. Batman has magnetic batarangs to disarm Snake Eyes anyway. His gun would also be taken away by the magnetic batarang, but even if it wasn't his suit can take the bullets and he is fast enough to evade them. Even though you showed a scan of Snake Eyes taking a powerful punch which shows that Batman won't one-shot him, Batman hits hard enough to make the fight end in only a few hits. It won't be easy for him to land those hits due to Snake Eyes' speed, but due to his superior skill and stamina he will be able to eventually. Even if Snake Eyes' durability is too high for Bruce to get past with blunt force, (which it isn't,) Batman has a specific counter for this...

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Pressure points. Here, he uses a pressure point that stops a man from breathing. Snake Eyes' durability won't matter, as pressure points are designed specifically to get past durability. Examples...

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Batman knocks out a metahuman with a two-finger touch technique. That isn't a one time thing, either.

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This is a better example. Batman knocks out a super steroid enhanced weight lifter who's impervious to pain through pressure points.

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This scan is very relevant, considering Batman's opponent. Batman modified a lethal vibrating palm technique to only knock his opponent out. It clearly works on ninjas, so he could use this for an easy win. I know that Snake Eyes is quicker and more skilled than this ninja, but when Snake Eyes gets close he will still be able to use it.

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Batman is even able to KO Solomon Grundy by using pressure points.

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Here, Batman uses pressure points to disable Green Arrow's arm. That would be very useful here, considering that if Batman uses this he won't have to worry about Snake Eyes' sword. That's if the magnetic batarang hasn't already taken care of that.

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Nightwing states that Batman knows how to execute every nerve strike there is.

How will Snake Eyes deal with Batman's taser that is able to stun Superman? Even if he tries to block it with his sword, it will electrocute him, leaving him open to attack. If Snake eyes gets close, Batman can release sleeping gas capable of affecting Solomon Grundy, as I showed before. I also showed that if Snake Eyes lays a hand on Bruce, his suit can give out an electric charge of 20,000 volts.

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Batman has mini-gas missiles in his utility belt, which would be able to knock Snake Eyes out.

Batman wouldn't need Meta-human handcuffs, because as I showed before he has batnets which wrap around a target.

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Batman has "cold grenades" which can freeze targets. This would be useful for either slowing down Snake Eyes or stopping him entirely.

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Batman carries concussion grenades with him.

I showed in my previous post Batman's miniature non-lethal explosives that work like land mines. He can set them as traps from stealth and weaken Snake Eyes from the shadows. His 10,000 volt batarang which I showed earlier in this post would also be useful, as Snake Eyes blocking it with his sword would only make things worse for him.

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#22  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@dcfan2015 said:

@lubub55: That was awesome to read, thank you

i would like to add another feat for his stealth

Sneaks attacks and disappears on the 600 year old vampire Andrew Bennett (I, Vampire #5)

This is a CaV. This only between me and Him you are not allowed to post feats. Please delete your post

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@emperorthanos: alright, i didn't know that there was a rule about this here.sorry.

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#25 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: Unfortunately right now I'm busy because my school has started again. But I will have a post up by this weekend if thats ok.

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#27  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

Counters/Rebuttals

Here, Batman disarms and KOs a group of guards who already have their guns pointed at him, and he does it before any of them can even fire a shot. If you count, there are upwards of 14 guards.

I don't see anything here? Is there a scan after this to show Batman actually taking them out. Right now all I see is that they are all just pointing at him.

With Snake Eyes he literally slashes four them at once before they can react.

In my last post, I showed about 5 examples of Batman dodging barrages of gunfire. As for disappearing from sight, I showed him doing the same thing when talking to Azreal.

Here is a more impressive feat by Snake Eyes. He dodges gun fire from a helicopter, that is a lot more rounds than any regular hand gund and they are fired a faster rate.

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He is capable of throwing an electrically charged batarang that gives off 10,000 volts. This would be especially useful against a metal sword. Even if the handle of Snake Eyes' sword is an electrical insulator, the charge is high enough to "jump the air gap." The shock may not affect him as much as if the handle was an electricity conductor, but it will still throw him off balance.

This won't work because Snake Eyes isn't touching the swords with his bare hand. Snake eyes is wearing his body suit with tactical duty gloves, that are made out of synthetic rubber, which electricity can't pass through.

Batman also has explosive batarangs capable of destroying Doomsday clones. They're not as durable as the actual Doomsday, so he would be willing to use them in character. If he throws batarangs like these after an array of normal ones, Snake Eyes will try to deflect it, which will not work out for him. Like I said in my previous post, Batman also has a taser capable of stunning Superman.

Again just like the handcuff would Batman in character use exploding batarangs that destroy Doomsday clones against a regular human being. Batman would never risk killing someone. Has he ever used exploding batarangs against his regular foes in random street encounters?

Also how stron are those doomsday clones? they could be considerably weaker than regular doomsday. On top of that Snake Eyes survived being in a chopper crash so he can survive one or two of those, and the moment he see one explode he will dodge all the others.

Batman makes beating Ra's Al Ghul, the leader of the League of Assassins and arguably the most skilled swordsman in the world, look easy. Even after he picks up a sword.

Context is important here. Ra's Al Ghul looks like he is in a night gown and wasn't even prepared for a fight. This looks like batman planned an attack on Ra's Al Ghul.

More over what feat do you have for Ra's to put at the same skill level as Snake Eyes.

A ninja master once said that he has the greatest mastery of form and Magnitude he has ever seen. And this is a man who can see the outcome of battle before it happens.

Here, Batman fights 50 ninja Man-Bats, who all have katanas and shrukien, similar to Snake Eyes'. He takes down 30 before he is overwhelmed.

Here he almost effortlessly beats two vampires at once, who are both wielding piercing weapons. Bear in mind that vampires also have enhanced physicals.

Off panel, he beats 15+ Man-Bat ninjas without his gadgets or even his batsuit. He is also unharmed, as you can see in the picture.

This is impressive. However how strong are these things?

Here Snake Eyes beats several Red Ninja, who are all extremely skilled ninja. Snake Eyes even fights them while he is on fire. Storm Shadows even says at the end that three of them were at a higher level of skill than a regular red ninja, while three others were all masters with arcane talents yet Snake Eyes killed all of them.

Here he beats multiple League of Assassins assassins at once who all have swords.

Here he fights several Arashikage ninja and he beats them. Now these Ninjas are the most dangerous killers in the world .

He does it again to a lot more ninja. Storm Shadow even calls them the most killers in the world but they are still children in comparison to Snake Eyes

And these guys are armed with bows and arrows as well as blades. And Snake Eye's kill them all.

Here, Batman takes a massive beating including getting impaled through the chest. This shows that even if Snake Eyes were to get a clean stab through the chest, (which is unlikely, as he mostly slashes and lunging would leave him open to attack,) Batman can tank it and carry on fighting.

You are right but Snale Eye's slash are far great than what Batman is facing here, not only as he damaged a transformer but he has ripped a bullet proof robot apart. You have already seen how fast he can move his swords. Bruce is not going to survive multiple strikes from that.

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The only way Snake Eyes has to hurt Batman is his sword. However, Bruce carries magnetic batarangs with him, which will disarm Snake Eyes. Then Batman's superior strength, skill, technique, gadgets, cunning, tactical prowess and comparable speed come into play.

Not true. A well placed throwing knife to his throat will kill him. So will bullets to the head when Snake Eyes gets close enough. Snake Eyes is also skilled in unarmed combat, as seen in his fight against Storm Shadow in the video.

That is good resistance against fire, but Batman will use other methods of putting him down. Whilst that feat is extremely impressive, him being able to tolerate that does not mean that he will be able to withstand Bruce's punches and gadgets. Does he have any durability feats against blunt force? Like I showed earlier, Batman is strong enough to one-hit Killer Croc, someone who is almost completely immune to bullets.

Surviving explosions takes more than fire resistance. He survived the the entire force of the explosion, which is extreme in a crash landing. It was enough to knock Scarlet out.

Snake Eyes won't be able to tank more than a few hits from Bruce, and even one will weaken him.

That is good strength feats but Snake Eye survived a chopper crash.

You can also see in the video that he gets punched so hard by Storm Shadow that it leaves a crater. And he was able to get right back up

What experience? Are you talking about the helicopter crash? If so, Batman is quicker than androids and won't be as easy to blitz. Also, blunt force is a different kind of damage and would weaken him more. He also won't have any time to recover, whilst with the androids he had some rest time. I will go over why Snake Eyes' pain tolerence won't matter when I make my main point.

My apologies I should have explained this properly. The experience was the reprogramming the doctors were putting him through, he wasn't resting there he was being experimented. When the doctor finished he said he should bare be able to stand up but he isntantly gets back up and beats a bunch of androids.

This mainly shows how great Snake Eyes's stamina is and how he is equal to Bats in this regard.

He would also be able to break line of sight in order to sneak up on Snake Eyes.

Except here Batman is leaving, he is not trying to fight any of those people. Batman doesn't disappear from his sight often in actual combat and even if he does snake eyes can sense machines under a bus.

Here Batman easily beats Wildcat whilst blindfolded. I only showed the last scan though, as there were quite a few. I have already shown why Snake Eyes will be unable to detect Bruce and why Bruce will be able to detect Snake Eyes, so the fighting blindfolded thing doesn't really matter.

He is capable of hearing people breathe. This shows that Snake Eyes' stealth will be useless against Batman. Does Snake Eyes have any feats which show he can detect Batman?

Snake Eyes can sense shifts in air pressure and here even the slightest echo of movement. Batman is not sneaking up on him.

Snake Eyes can see Batman the moment the fight begins and he will never lose sight of him.

He also knows the Falling Leaf technique, which only two other living people know.

Impressive skill on Batman's part but Snake eyes is more than a match for him.

This is false, as Batman can disappear from view and track Snake Eyes, whilst Snake Eyes can't detect Batman even though he has great senses.

Debunked, when Snake Eyes can sense everything around him, he will be able to track Bats no matter what. And I will bring up a point that Snake Eyes will start firing at him the moment the fight begins, Bat is not going have time to disappear.

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He can see someone ten miles away in a tree.

Batman has the strength to overcome Snake Eyes' blunt force durability and how Batman can evade swords and tolerate being stabbed by them. I have also shown that Batman can disarm Snake Eyes.

He stabbed once in that images and then when down after a beating. Snake Eyes stabs with a lot more force which will kill bats.

Nightwing states that Batman knows how to execute every nerve strike there is.

Now Batman's nerve strike is impressive but he has faced other opponents who can do similar things. Batman has to get close to Snake Eyes and that perfect beucase in close distance Snake EYs has a much longer reach and can move much faster.

See Batmans can move away from bullets but can he catch them?

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This is more impressive than just dodging bullets because he is moving just his arms fast enough to deflect all of them to the point where it looks like he has several arms. Can Batman really deal with that kind of speed at close combat. If Snake Eyes is striking at him at that speed.

How will Snake Eyes deal with Batman's taser that is able to stun Superman? Even if he tries to block it with his sword, it will electrocute him, leaving him open to attack. If Snake eyes gets close, Batman can release sleeping gas capable of affecting Solomon Grundy, as I showed before. I also showed that if Snake Eyes lays a hand on Bruce, his suit can give out an electric charge of 20,000 volts.

Batman has mini-gas missiles in his utility belt, which would be able to knock Snake Eyes out.

Batman has "cold grenades" which can freeze targets. This would be useful for either slowing down Snake Eyes or stopping him entirely.

Now before I rebutt these things, I would like to point out two things.

  • Some of these equipment would kill any human being e.g taser that can stun supes or gas missiles. Batman would never use them against non superhuman. In this case all he sees is a human ninja, he would never risk using such high tech equipment against a regular human as it could kill him.
  • Second point is how often does Batman use these gadgets. It seems you are counting every gadget he has ever used. Look I know he has a lot of equipment but standard equipment is only stuff he would use if he was just cruising the city and fighting random street thugs. Not going to battle with Superman. These have to be gadgets that he has used on multiple occasions and not once or twice.
  • Secondly this applies to the electricity based attack. How will they affect Snake Eyes through his synthetic rubber suit when he electricity doesn't pass through.

Ok now to actual rebutting.

  • I need some context to that superman scene. Superman is shirtless and looks like he was already damaged before batman uses the attack. And I would need to see the next scan to see how exactly superman is affected by the taser. Also Batman is screaming Lois and is not even looking at Supes, were they fighting or what.
  • As for the other electric shock, that seem to only be active once Batman is beaten and can't fight for himself, wouldn't Snake Eyes have won the fight if Batman is beaten? That seems more like an automatic self defense to make sure his suit in taken.
  • In the scan for the sleeping gas, Grundy doesn't actually fall asleep, he is just annoyed by the gas in his face and thats it. It more an annoyance of blocking his vision. And also that also seems like another one of the automatic defense once Batman is beaten.
  • Now the cold grenade could be dangerous but I would like to see how the work. The guy batman uses it on already seems to have some sort of spear though him and then Batman throws the grenade. Why can't Snake Eyes just dodge the grenades, he is going to try to deflect a huge explosive. Has Batman ever hit someone as fast Snake eyes with one of those.
  • As for the concussions grenades that might be the only thing here that could potentially pose Snake Eyes a problem. But Snake eyes can deal with fighting without some of his sense temporarily. All his sense has been enhanced, so a concussion grenade usually affect eye sight and ears, Snake Eyes will still be able to carry on. Especially considering he was still able to with his head on Fire.

But bringing up grenade, Snake eyes has his own set of them. Now these are just regular grenade and Snake Eye will not be afraid to use them. Unlike Batman, Snake Eyes is more than willing to kill if he has to.

Just thought I'd put this in to show why Batman's batarangs will be dealt with easily by Snake Eyes.

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Snake Eyes shoots down all of storm shadow shurikens who can throw them at great speeds. Snake Eyes can just do the same to the Batarangs.

Conclusion

  • Snake Eye's has the sense to keep track of Batman at all times.
  • His striking is remarkable in strength and speed. He regularly cuts through robots with ease and he can deflect bullets. A couple of strikes on Batman and it's over.
  • Snake Eyes has great durability to blunt force damage. He can deal with Batmans punches.
  • While Batman's moral will ensure Batman will try to hold back and not kill, Snake Eyes finishes of his opponents quickly and will try to do so here.
  • Many of gadgets you have shown are not standard equipment. While Batman has a huge arsenal he doesn't carry all that stuff on a regular basis.

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#28 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: apologies for the delay but here it finally is.

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#30 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: how many posts each are doing?

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@emperorthanos: I will do it until you want to stop and get people to vote.

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#32 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: Honestly I would prefer if do just do three posts each total( as my exams are coming up and I may to be able to attend to this for awhile). You can just finish all your counters and then add any closing statements after it.

If thats ok with you.

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@emperorthanos: That's fine. I will make this my closing statement then.

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Cool :)

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Counter-counters

I don't see anything here? Is there a scan after this to show Batman actually taking them out. Right now all I see is that they are all just pointing at him.

With Snake Eyes he literally slashes four them at once before they can react.

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Sorry about that. I thought I posted it. This comes after the previous one. It is also easier to take a group out with a sword as you can take multiple out with a slash, but when using your fists you have to individually bludgeon them all and Batman was able to accomplish the same thing with no weapon against significantly more enemies.

Here is a more impressive feat by Snake Eyes. He dodges gun fire from a helicopter, that is a lot more rounds than any regular hand gund and they are fired a faster rate.

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Batman dodges helicopter machine gun fire here.

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This feat is arguably more impressive, but it is from the New 52. However, PC Batman is consistently faster than New 52 Batman so it is safe to say that he would be able to do this just as well. Take this how you'd like, though.

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Here Batman dodges shots from Wrath which fire at 5000 rounds per minute. Miniguns on military helicopters fire around 2000 to 6000 rounds per minute, so Batman was arguably dodging quicker fire. Not only this, but Wrath is on the ground manually aiming, which make the shots harder to dodge.

This won't work because Snake Eyes isn't touching the swords with his bare hand. Snake eyes is wearing his body suit with tactical duty gloves, that are made out of synthetic rubber, which electricity can't pass through.

I looked it up, and I found information stating that if the voltage is high enough it will pass through things like rubber. Do you have anything which disproves that?

Again just like the handcuff would Batman in character use exploding batarangs that destroy Doomsday clones against a regular human being. Batman would never risk killing someone. Has he ever used exploding batarangs against his regular foes in random street encounters?

Also how stron are those doomsday clones? they could be considerably weaker than regular doomsday. On top of that Snake Eyes survived being in a chopper crash so he can survive one or two of those, and the moment he see one explode he will dodge all the others.

I would hardly describe Snake Eyes as a "regular human being." I see where you are coming from though. The clones are a lot stronger and more durable than a regular human, but far below Doomsday himself. Batman also wouldn't use them at first, but would when he realises who he is facing. You are right about him not having used them against ordinary humans though.

Context is important here. Ra's Al Ghul looks like he is in a night gown and wasn't even prepared for a fight. This looks like batman planned an attack on Ra's Al Ghul.

More over what feat do you have for Ra's to put at the same skill level as Snake Eyes.

A ninja master once said that he has the greatest mastery of form and Magnitude he has ever seen. And this is a man who can see the outcome of battle before it happens.

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Batman knocks out everyone in the building besides from him and Ra's Al Ghul. He talks before the fight, so it isn't like Ra's was unprepared or in a weakened state. Ra's Al Ghul has also lived for centuries and leads the greatest assassin organisation in the world. Over the centuries he has mastered most forms of melee combat and is considered to be almost unbeatable in a 1v1 sword fight. Due to using the Lazarus Pit so much, his strength, speed, stamina, agility, and durability have all been enhanced. Not to, say, Deathstroke levels, but that is still a great advantage when combined with his great skill. His skill has also been shown as the main reason for his victories in sword fights, rather than his physicals. He is also a master martial artist, as he claims to be an expert in at least 100 fighting styles. He is arguably the greatest swordsman in the DC universe, when all physicals are equalized. I don't think that Ra's al Ghul would beat Snake Eyes in a sword fight, but my point is that he is undeniably impressive and Batman has shown the skill to be able to combat people with swords and other melee weapons.

This is impressive. However how strong are these things?

Here Snake Eyes beats several Red Ninja, who are all extremely skilled ninja. Snake Eyes even fights them while he is on fire. Storm Shadows even says at the end that three of them were at a higher level of skill than a regular red ninja, while three others were all masters with arcane talents yet Snake Eyes killed all of them.

They gain the same physical bonuses as Man-Bat, and they were members of the League of Assassins so they are very skilled. My point is that a sword won't be a big enough advantage to secure a win over Bruce.

Here he fights several Arashikage ninja and he beats them. Now these Ninjas are the most dangerous killers in the world .

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They may be the most dangerous killers in Snake Eyes' world, but threats in the DC Universe are generally on another level. Here Batman beats the (alledgedly) 5 best assassins in the world. They are probably not the 5 absolute best, but they are still among them.

He does it again to a lot more ninja. Storm Shadow even calls them the most killers in the world but they are still children in comparison to Snake Eyes

And these guys are armed with bows and arrows as well as blades. And Snake Eye's kill them all.

I showed Batman fighting lots of armed people at once in my last post. Bows also wouldn't make a difference.

You are right but Snale Eye's slash are far great than what Batman is facing here, not only as he damaged a transformer but he has ripped a bullet proof robot apart. You have already seen how fast he can move his swords. Bruce is not going to survive multiple strikes from that.

Cutting through is cutting through. Even if his sword is capable of cutting through more things, it will have the same effect on him. It would just be easier for it to pierce his armour. Batman has the speed and skill to counter the sword though, as well as magnetic batarangs and other gadgets.

Not true. A well placed throwing knife to his throat will kill him. So will bullets to the head when Snake Eyes gets close enough. Snake Eyes is also skilled in unarmed combat, as seen in his fight against Storm Shadow in the video.

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Batman is capable of catching throwing knives, and he can throw batarangs himself.

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Bullets to the head will barely even phase Batman, and the magnetic batarangs will disarm his gun too.

I also don't doubt that he is skilled in H2H but he is not even in Bruce's league. (Unless you can prove otherwise. The video isn't enough, as Bruce is a master of 127 martial arts and is very skilled with pressure points.) I doubt Snake Eyes would last for more than a few minutes in H2H with Bruce. He is outmatched physically, mentally and skillwise. You even said before that Snake Eyes wouldn't be able to rely on his fists, and would have to use his sword to win.

Surviving explosions takes more than fire resistance. He survived the the entire force of the explosion, which is extreme in a crash landing. It was enough to knock Scarlet out.

Does he have any resistance against blunt force?

That is good strength feats but Snake Eye survived a chopper crash.

You can also see in the video that he gets punched so hard by Storm Shadow that it leaves a crater. And he was able to get right back up

The chopper crash is not a blunt force resistant feat, and the second one is very impressive. It means that Bruce won't be able to one-shot him. I have already shown why he will be able to knock Snake Eyes out in the end though.

My apologies I should have explained this properly. The experience was the reprogramming the doctors were putting him through, he wasn't resting there he was being experimented. When the doctor finished he said he should bare be able to stand up but he isntantly gets back up and beats a bunch of androids.

This mainly shows how great Snake Eyes's stamina is and how he is equal to Bats in this regard.

Wouldn't that be pain tolerance, rather than stamina?

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As for stamina, Batman fought for 28 hours in a gauntlet where another combatant was added every hour. He won.

Except here Batman is leaving, he is not trying to fight any of those people. Batman doesn't disappear from his sight often in actual combat and even if he does snake eyes can sense machines under a bus.

This shows that he can disappear if he needs to, and Batman is more stealthy than a machine, as I feel I've already shown.

Snake Eyes can sense shifts in air pressure and here even the slightest echo of movement. Batman is not sneaking up on him.

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Sure he is!

Snake Eyes can see Batman the moment the fight begins and he will never lose sight of him.

I've already shown that Batman can break line of sight.

Impressive skill on Batman's part but Snake eyes is more than a match for him.

In what way? I mentioned this to show that Snake Eyes knowing a technique that few others do does not put him above Batman. He also has the other techniques that I mentioned.

Debunked, when Snake Eyes can sense everything around him, he will be able to track Bats no matter what. And I will bring up a point that Snake Eyes will start firing at him the moment the fight begins, Bat is not going have time to disappear.

What stealth detection feats does he have to counter what I've shown for Batman? Batman will also be able to disappear whilst being fired at. How would it stop him? He can find cover. He can also disarm him with a magnetic batarang.

He can see someone ten miles away in a tree.

Very impressive, but Superman not being able to sense him is even more impressive. Batman makes no noise whilst sneaking, so even enhanced senses won't help.

He stabbed once in that images and then when down after a beating. Snake Eyes stabs with a lot more force which will kill bats.

Batman can disarm Snake Eyes with a magnetic batarang and even if he couldn't Snake Eyes slashes in character rather than stabs, which would be a lot less harmful to Bruce. He would also be able to take a few, and he has the skill to overcome Snake Eyes' weapon advantage.

Now Batman's nerve strike is impressive but he has faced other opponents who can do similar things. Batman has to get close to Snake Eyes and that perfect beucase in close distance Snake EYs has a much longer reach and can move much faster.

I don't think so, but being able to do similar things doesn't make you any more resistant to it. Snake Eyes' sword also won't make a difference, because explosive batarang. Do you have any proof that Snake Eyes can move "much faster"? I feel like I have already proved that that is not true.

See Batmans can move away from bullets but can he catch them?

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Yes.

This is more impressive than just dodging bullets because he is moving just his arms fast enough to deflect all of them to the point where it looks like he has several arms. Can Batman really deal with that kind of speed at close combat. If Snake Eyes is striking at him at that speed.

He can. I have shown him catching impulse, who is far faster.

Some of these equipment would kill any human being e.g taser that can stun supes or gas missiles. Batman would never use them against non superhuman. In this case all he sees is a human ninja, he would never risk using such high tech equipment against a regular human as it could kill him.

You would think that a taser capable of stunning Superman would kill a regular human, but miraculously it doesn't. Comic books are not realistic. That, or he uses a different taser for humans. It's never outright said. Gas missiles are also non-lethal. As far as I'm aware, Snake Eyes has no filter to protect him from toxins.

Second point is how often does Batman use these gadgets. It seems you are counting every gadget he has ever used. Look I know he has a lot of equipment but standard equipment is only stuff he would use if he was just cruising the city and fighting random street thugs. Not going to battle with Superman. These have to be gadgets that he has used on multiple occasions and not once or twice.

Batman has no "set" equipment like other superheroes, such as Captain America. He is often capable of pulling out things that someone wouldn't realistically carry around with them. I have only included equipment that he used in a random encounter, rather than one he planned for.

Secondly this applies to the electricity based attack. How will they affect Snake Eyes through his synthetic rubber suit when he electricity doesn't pass through.

I've read somewhere that electricity can pass through electrical insulators if the voltage is high enough.

I need some context to that superman scene. Superman is shirtless and looks like he was already damaged before batman uses the attack. And I would need to see the next scan to see how exactly superman is affected by the taser. Also Batman is screaming Lois and is not even looking at Supes, were they fighting or what.

It wasn't enough to take Superman out from the fight, and he was already fighting before. It just slightly fazed him, and caused him to make a sound of pain. Even if Superman wasn't at the top of his game, he wasn't depowered or anything so it would be more than enough to take Snake Eyes out of the fight. Superman >>> synthetic rubber

As for the other electric shock, that seem to only be active once Batman is beaten and can't fight for himself, wouldn't Snake Eyes have won the fight if Batman is beaten? That seems more like an automatic self defense to make sure his suit in taken.

Batman wouldn't necessarily have to be beaten to use it. Only downed. He could get back up after Snake Eyes has been electrocuted. He even faked it in a scan I showed, (if I remember correctly,) so that is a tactic which is not beneath him.

In the scan for the sleeping gas, Grundy doesn't actually fall asleep, he is just annoyed by the gas in his face and thats it. It more an annoyance of blocking his vision. And also that also seems like another one of the automatic defense once Batman is beaten.

I never said that it knocked Grundy out, I said that it affected him enough for Batman to escape. That is very impressive considering that he is a zombie. It is also not a defense once Batman is beaten, but rather it stops him from being beaten if he starts to get overwhelmed.

Now the cold grenade could be dangerous but I would like to see how the work. The guy batman uses it on already seems to have some sort of spear though him and then Batman throws the grenade. Why can't Snake Eyes just dodge the grenades, he is going to try to deflect a huge explosive. Has Batman ever hit someone as fast Snake eyes with one of those.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, but that it Clayface he is freezing. They also have quite a large radius, so even if Snake Eyes dodged the direct impact he would be slowed down by the cold.

As for the concussions grenades that might be the only thing here that could potentially pose Snake Eyes a problem. But Snake eyes can deal with fighting without some of his sense temporarily. All his sense has been enhanced, so a concussion grenade usually affect eye sight and ears, Snake Eyes will still be able to carry on. Especially considering he was still able to with his head on Fire.

Only thing? I feel like I have shown that Snake Eyes has no counter against lots of Batman's equipment, rather than just the concussion grenade. Even if Snake Eyes can carry on without some of his senses, he wouldn't be as effective and that will guarantee his loss when he is fighting against a superior combatant, such as Batman. He probably wouldn't even need the concussion grenade. It sure would help though.

But bringing up grenade, Snake eyes has his own set of them. Now these are just regular grenade and Snake Eye will not be afraid to use them. Unlike Batman, Snake Eyes is more than willing to kill if he has to.

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Batman is capable of catching and tossing grenades thrown at him.

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Even if he wasn't able to do that, Batman's cape can consistently resist explosions far more powerful than grenades.

Just thought I'd put this in to show why Batman's batarangs will be dealt with easily by Snake Eyes.

Snake Eyes shoots down all of storm shadow shurikens who can throw them at great speeds. Snake Eyes can just do the same to the Batarangs.

Maybe if he just tossed regular batarangs, but Batman will be tossing all kind of different "trick" batarangs.

Conclusion counters

Snake Eye's has the sense to keep track of Batman at all times.

Batman has evaded things with far better senses than Snake Eyes, and has shown the ability to disappear whilst in sight of people. Snake Eyes doesn't have the detection feats to find Batman, though.

His striking is remarkable in strength and speed. He regularly cuts through robots with ease and he can deflect bullets. A couple of strikes on Batman and it's over.

Batman has higher lifting and striking strength, and is around the same in speed, but maybe slightly quicker. Batman has shown the durability to take hits from piercing and slashing weapons, and has also shown the skill to take on armed opponents. Batman is also capable of deflecting bullets. He can also disarm Snake Eyes with his magnetic batarangs.

Snake Eyes has great durability to blunt force damage. He can deal with Batmans punches.

Batman certainly wouldn't one-shot him, but he has cracked rocket-proof glass with his fists whilst dying from poison gas, has one-shotted Killer Croc, someone with superhuman durability, and can kick down concrete pillars whilst injured and punch people through brick walls. Snake Eyes won't be able to take hits from Batman forever.

While Batman's moral will ensure Batman will try to hold back and not kill, Snake Eyes finishes of his opponents quickly and will try to do so here.

I won't lie, Snake Eyes' morals are a big advantage. However, Batman regularly fights people trying to kill him and he comes out on top. He also has the skill and equipment to incapacitate Snake Eyes whilst also not being killed himself.

Many of gadgets you have shown are not standard equipment. While Batman has a huge arsenal he doesn't carry all that stuff on a regular basis.

Besides from the ones you pointed out, all the things I have used for Batman's equipment were with him during a random encounter. He didn't know that he was going to be fighting anything particularly powerful, but he carried the equipment to deal with it anyway.

Final statement

Batman has the edge in:

  • Strength
  • Equipment
  • Intelligence and tactical thinking
  • Cunning
  • Stealth
  • Skill
  • Stamina

Snake Eyes has the advantage in:

  • Morals
  • Lethality
  • Accuracy

They are roughly even in:

  • Speed
  • Experience
  • Durability

I feel like I have shown that Batman regularly fights people with the same advantages Snake Eyes has and wins. This is because his advantages are enough to overcome Snake Eyes', with his skill and gear in particular playing important roles. I would put more in, but I made enough of a case during my counters, and this is just a summary.

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#37  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: I'l try get to this as soon as I can but it's going to take a while bu I promise I will have my post up eventually.

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@emperorthanos: It's fine. Don't let this get in the way of your life. Just take your time.

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#40 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: It's coming i promise. I'm in the middle of Mocks right now. If you give me one more week so sys next Wednesday I will have it up. If that's ok with you.

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@emperorthanos: That's fine, I just thought that you'd forgotten about it. Good luck. :)

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#43  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

Counters

Sorry about that. I thought I posted it. This comes after the previous one. It is also easier to take a group out with a sword as you can take multiple out with a slash, but when using your fists you have to individually bludgeon them all and Batman was able to accomplish the same thing with no weapon against significantly more enemies.

OK thanks for that. This is impressive. Fighting a bunch of fodder isn't really relevant here.

Batman dodges helicopter machine gun fire here.

Here Batman dodges shots from Wrath which fire at 5000 rounds per minute. Miniguns on military helicopters fire around 2000 to 6000 rounds per minute, so Batman was arguably dodging quicker fire. Not only this, but Wrath is on the ground manually aiming, which make the shots harder to dodge.

I guess I can except that the speed difference between these two is much.

I looked it up, and I found information stating that if the voltage is high enough it will pass through things like rubber. Do you have anything which disproves that?

That doesn't really show anything. How high does the voltage have to be to overcome rubber? Because when I looked it up the number varied from a million volts + something that Batman's gauntlets don't produce. So against my point stands on Batman's electricity not passing thgough rubber as Batman's gauntlets don't have a high enough voltage.

I would hardly describe Snake Eyes as a "regular human being." I see where you are coming from though. The clones are a lot stronger and more durable than a regular human, but far below Doomsday himself. Batman also wouldn't use them at first, but would when he realises who he is facing. You are right about him not having used them against ordinary humans though.

What I meant was that Snake Eyes is just human, he has no super powers or any sort of superhuman durgs. He is peak human like Batman. And Bats would never use tech meant to destroy doomsday on a ordinary human . Heck in a random encounter he doesn't carry stuff like that.

Batman knocks out everyone in the building besides from him and Ra's Al Ghul. He talks before the fight, so it isn't like Ra's was unprepared or in a weakened state. Ra's Al Ghul has also lived for centuries and leads the greatest assassin organisation in the world. Over the centuries he has mastered most forms of melee combat and is considered to be almost unbeatable in a 1v1 sword fight. Due to using the Lazarus Pit so much, his strength, speed, stamina, agility, and durability have all been enhanced. Not to, say, Deathstroke levels, but that is still a great advantage when combined with his great skill. His skill has also been shown as the main reason for his victories in sword fights, rather than his physicals. He is also a master martial artist, as he claims to be an expert in at least 100 fighting styles. He is arguably the greatest swordsman in the DC universe, when all physicals are equalized. I don't think that Ra's al Ghul would beat Snake Eyes in a sword fight, but my point is that he is undeniably impressive and Batman has shown the skill to be able to combat people with swords and other melee weapons.

Fact still remains that Ra's was in his night gown and Batmans had attacked the building with a plan. Later in that post you even show Ras owning Batman with his club suggesting that when Ras is prepared to fight the outcome is far more different.

They gain the same physical bonuses as Man-Bat, and they were members of the League of Assassins so they are very skilled. My point is that a sword won't be a big enough advantage to secure a win over Bruce.

I'm not saying that swords alone are going secure the win. My point is that Batman's suit can be pierced.

Cutting through is cutting through. Even if his sword is capable of cutting through more things, it will have the same effect on him. It would just be easier for it to pierce his armour. Batman has the speed and skill to counter the sword though, as well as magnetic batarangs and other gadgets.

Again Batman is going to survive the cut he going to be getting here.

No Caption Provided

Here Snake Eyes chops a machines arms off. How is Batman going to keep fighting without an arm.

A cut like that which snake eyes can do will end this fight quickly.

Snakes eyes isn't bad at hand to hand combat either.

Here he beats a bunch of battle andorids. His neck chops was able cut the androids head off. And these are droid are bullet proof and made for battle.

Batman is capable of catching throwing knives, and he can throw batarangs himself.

Bullets to the head will barely even phase Batman, and the magnetic batarangs will disarm his gun too.

a well place shot through Batman's mouth will kill him and Snake Eyes is more than capable of that at close range.

No Caption Provided

Snake eyes can clearly see this opening and will use it,

As for the Magnetic batarangs. Batman has never actually used it to disarm someone. After looking at the scan againg. He doesn't say the batrangs it self is magnetic.

No Caption Provided

He said it magnetized the armor. So that lightening can do his thing. Magnetizing something is to make it magnetic. Which doesn't mean Snake Eye's is losing his equipment, his equipment just becomes magnetic. Which does nothing here unless Batman is carrying a big magnet with him.

So the whole Batman disarming Snake Eyes strategy is not happening.

I also don't doubt that he is skilled in H2H but he is not even in Bruce's league. (Unless you can prove otherwise. The video isn't enough, as Bruce is a master of 127 martial arts and is very skilled with pressure points.) I doubt Snake Eyes would last for more than a few minutes in H2H with Bruce. He is outmatched physically, mentally and skillwise. You even said before that Snake Eyes wouldn't be able to rely on his fists, and would have to use his sword to win.

You are right. Which is why it is a good thing Snake eyes will have his swords through out the fight.

The chopper crash is not a blunt force resistant feat, and the second one is very impressive. It means that Bruce won't be able to one-shot him. I have already shown why he will be able to knock Snake Eyes out in the end though.

If he gets enough hits in and isn't put down by Snake Eyes first.

Wouldn't that be pain tolerance, rather than stamina?

I guess. Pain Tolerance is infact more relevant in this fight than stamina.

This shows that he can disappear if he needs to, and Batman is more stealthy than a machine, as I feel I've already shown.

Not from someone who can sense the change of air pressure.

Sure he is!

What does that show at all.

In what way? I mentioned this to show that Snake Eyes knowing a technique that few others do does not put him above Batman. He also has the other techniques that I mentioned.

I mean Sanke Eyes is just as skilled

What stealth detection feats does he have to counter what I've shown for Batman? Batman will also be able to disappear whilst being fired at. How would it stop him? He can find cover. He can also disarm him with a magnetic batarang.

Batarang has been debunked.

And I have already shown feats of Snake Eys's sensing abilities.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

was this not enough. IS Batman's stealth so great that the air around him doesn't move? Of course not. You keep going to back to the one feat where Batman left a group of people including Superman.

But firstly that wasn't a combat feat. Secondly there is no proof that superman himself could not see him. Finally you haven't shown me Batman sing stealth agasinst an opponent who hase Snake Eye's like sense without being caught. That should end the stealth argument.

You would think that a taser capable of stunning Superman would kill a regular human, but miraculously it doesn't. Comic books are not realistic. That, or he uses a different taser for humans. It's never outright said. Gas missiles are also non-lethal. As far as I'm aware, Snake Eyes has no filter to protect him from toxins.

That obviously shows that they are different tasers. Gas Missiles are not something Batman carries around in random encounters.

Batman has no "set" equipment like other superheroes, such as Captain America. He is often capable of pulling out things that someone wouldn't realistically carry around with them. I have only included equipment that he used in a random encounter, rather than one he planned for.

You have clearly not. So much of what you have shown isn't equipment he has in random encounters. Like the Superhuman and cuffs or missiles meant to damage doomsday. Any Equipment you have shown that hurts superhuman characters are stuff Batman doesn't carry around when he is strolling through Gotham dealing with ordinary crime or his regular street villains.

I've read somewhere that electricity can pass through electrical insulators if the voltage is high enough.

again how high must the electricity be and does Batman's equipment have that kind of electricity.

It wasn't enough to take Superman out from the fight, and he was already fighting before. It just slightly fazed him, and caused him to make a sound of pain. Even if Superman wasn't at the top of his game, he wasn't depowered or anything so it would be more than enough to take Snake Eyes out of the fight. Superman >>> synthetic rubber

That not how it works. Rubber is a material electricity cannot pass. Superman's skin isn't that kind of material so the electricity will pass through it. Electricity doesn't pass through unless it is high enough as you said but you didn't say how high it must be. I looked it up and I saw some sites put it at millions. Batman's taser doesn't have that.

I never said that it knocked Grundy out, I said that it affected him enough for Batman to escape. That is very impressive considering that he is a zombie. It is also not a defense once Batman is beaten, but rather it stops him from being beaten if he starts to get overwhelmed.

again it affected him by annoying him and may be blurring his vision. It didn't actually make him sleepy or anything.

Only thing? I feel like I have shown that Snake Eyes has no counter against lots of Batman's equipment, rather than just the concussion grenade. Even if Snake Eyes can carry on without some of his senses, he wouldn't be as effective and that will guarantee his loss when he is fighting against a superior combatant, such as Batman. He probably wouldn't even need the concussion grenade. It sure would help though.

Only thing that Batman would carry on a regular basis.

Half the equipment you have shown is a bunch of stuff he carries when fighting superhuman aliens.I have proven this multiple times but you have still been insistent brining them up.

He has used none of those gadgets against his regular foes like Joker, Riddler, Two-Face, Bane etc. So why would he use it on a random ninja he just saw.

Counters to conclusion counters

Even if he wasn't able to do that, Batman's cape can consistently resist explosions far more powerful than grenades.

Fair enough.

Batman has evaded things with far better senses than Snake Eyes, and has shown the ability to disappear whilst in sight of people. Snake Eyes doesn't have the detection feats to find Batman, though.

Like who? Superman? Batman has never, in all the multiple times he has fought supes, stealthed him in a fight and succeeded.

Batman's is not going to out stealth someone who can sense machines and air pressure change.

Batman has higher lifting and striking strength, and is around the same in speed, but maybe slightly quicker. Batman has shown the durability to take hits from piercing and slashing weapons, and has also shown the skill to take on armed opponents. Batman is also capable of deflecting bullets. He can also disarm Snake Eyes with his magnetic batarangs.

No magnetic batarangs. Debunked that. Speed is similar I admit. And While one slash isn't going to put down Batman, multiple will.

Batman certainly wouldn't one-shot him, but he has cracked rocket-proof glass with his fists whilst dying from poison gas, has one-shotted Killer Croc, someone with superhuman durability, and can kick down concrete pillars whilst injured and punch people through brick walls. Snake Eyes won't be able to take hits from Batman forever.

agreed, but this fight isn't going to last that long.

I won't lie, Snake Eyes' morals are a big advantage. However, Batman regularly fights people trying to kill him and he comes out on top. He also has the skill and equipment to incapacitate Snake Eyes whilst also not being killed himself.

My point on the morals is that Batman is going to use his most potent equipment at the beginning of the fight. He will try to subdue Snake Eyes with less harmful equipment. ON the other hand snake eyes will just straight up go for the kill with nothing holding him back.

Besides from the ones you pointed out, all the things I have used for Batman's equipment were with him during a random encounter. He didn't know that he was going to be fighting anything particularly powerful, but he carried the equipment to deal with it anyway.

Yeah except the amount of things you have shown as random equipment are very few and not enough to change the tide of this fight in Batmans favor.

Closing statement

  • Physically these two are pretty even. In speed and durability especially. I will concede that Batman has greater strength.
  • But You have have shown a bunch of equipment that really isn't stuff batman has in random encounters. Stuff he uses on Superman and Doomsday are not the kind of equipment he will use against a human ninja. The "magnetic" Batarangs are not going to do anything other than may Snake's stuff magnetic which is useless.
  • The stealth argument doesn't work when Snake Eyes can sense the fainted whisper and change in air pressure. In your one scan Batman was moving away from Superman not towards him like he would have to do here.
  • And the difference in morals mean that while Batman will not use all of his dangerous equipment Snake Eyes will go for the kill.
  • Batman has succumbed to piercing damage in the past and Snake eyes chops up cyborgs for a living, so he will do significant damage to Batman and eventually put him down.
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#44 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@lubub55: ok its finally done. You want to go to voting now?

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#47 Lunacyde  Moderator

Good CaV, i'll have to think hard about the victor.

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#48  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

I'm voting for @lubub55in a close match. He had the easier task given Batman's vast assortment of feats to work with and position as a top tier in a major mainstream comic Universe, however he also earned my vote with a more convincing argument that included better descriptions of feats and how they played into the battle, as well as more in-depth counters. I felt that some of @emperorthanos scan descriptions were too short, and not worked as well into the argument. You want to sell why your character is superior and why you are right. Don't just post scans and leave it at that, hammer home why that scan helps your argument. Add some creativity and your own personal flair as well. Also some of them seemingly were just cut/pasted from respect threads and old arguments, or that is how it appears. I would encourage both debaters to keep up the good work and always try to improve.

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I would have to vote for @emperorthanos for debunking most of Lub's feats, if not all. Good debate, but I feel ET really sold home that Snake's swordsmanship would be a big factor here, and that his swords would pierce Batman's suit handily. I feel like Lub debated on points not too relevant like running speed.. which really doesn't matter here considering that combat speed was said to be pretty even among our opponents here.. And he used out of context scans of Batman in special circumstances.

P.S: Strength doesn't matter when your opponent can tear you a new one with comparable stats + other great feats to back up what deadly skills with weapons can do.

Anyways, good job to Lub, ET, excellent job.

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#50  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@llehdevil:Thank you for the vote.

@lunacyde:Thanks for voting. Appreciate the advice. The really old scans were from respect threads as that was the only way I could find and use them.