CaV: Batman (Batman3000) vs Cyclops (KrleAvenger)

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Challenge - A - Viner

Batman, one of the best and most tactical fighters of the DC Universe represented by Batman3000, versus Cyclops, another capable tactician with a lot of destructive power, represented by myself (KrleAvenger). DC vs Marvel fight between street levelers. Active member of the Justice League vs leader of the X-Men. Awesome? I know.

Batman - Represented by Batman3000

No Caption Provided

VS...

Cyclops - Represented by KrleAvenger

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The Rules

  • Combatants are In Character but determined to win.
  • Standard Knowledge.
  • Standard Equipment.
  • No Battle Field Removal.
  • No Prep Time.
  • No amps.
  • Pre-Flashpoint/New 52/Rebirth Batman.
  • Pre-Marvel Now Cyclops (Earth-616).
  • Combatants start 50 feet away from each other.
  • Win by Death/Incap/KO.

Location

No Caption Provided

To the voters (before you post)

This is a Challenge a Viner, a special type of battle forum segment where two users can debate each other, so we would appreciate if you would not interfere with that. Please don't say who you think would win until the debate is completely over. Don't make us call the mods. Ask to be tagged and you'll be reserved for voting at the end when the debate is done. Even those who are not tagged and didn't ask to be tagged are still allowed to vote. Keep your negative comments to yourself or at-least bring them forth when the debate is over. If some of us made a mistake bring it up but NOT BEFORE THE DEBATE IS OVER. Also please do not flood the thread with unneeded comments like talking about your own stuff or posting funny stuff unless you asked to be tagged in those comments.

Thanks for understanding and I hope you will enjoy.

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Tag, I'll actually vote this time.

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#13 anthp2000  Moderator

t4v

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Oh man tag me here, haven't seen Cyke in a CAV yet,and I'm excited to see how someone else reps Batman.

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This looks very interesting.. T4V.

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#21  Edited By TheSpartanB345T

tag

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This looks delicious

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Can't apologize enough to everyone, especially Krle. I Promise there won't be any more delay.

Bruce Wayne, AKA Batman

No Caption Provided

Bruce Wayne was only a young boy, when he saw his parents gunned down in the rough city of Gotham. He devoted his life to making sure no one would ever have to face what he had to go through. And so Bruce became something more than just a man to fight this one-man war on crime. He became The Batman....

Powers and Abilities

Batman possesses no super-human powers, but rather used countless years of training to his advantage, He's trained to the absolute peak of physical and mental capacity and uses his wealth and array of high tech gadgets to fight crime.

-Peak-Human Strength

-Peak-Human Speed

-Peak-Human Durability

-Genius Level Intellect

-Wide Array of high tech Gadgets

-Master Tactician

-One of the world's greatest fighters

To start, I would like to provide feats of agility and speed, since evasion will be crucial to Bruce in this fight.

No Caption Provided
To start, Bruce dodges a bazooka blast from close range and closes the gap to take him out.
To start, Bruce dodges a bazooka blast from close range and closes the gap to take him out.
Dodges Mr. Freeze's ice blasts from point-blank range.
Dodges Mr. Freeze's ice blasts from point-blank range.
Successfully dodges gun-fire using acrobatics.
Successfully dodges gun-fire using acrobatics.
Punches a bullet.
Punches a bullet.

Moving forward, gear will be a huge asset as well especially from range;

1. Hits Clayface from behind a table, without looking disgruntling him.

2. Turns off a light switch from a distance.

3. Knocks out a sniper from a distance with a golf ball.

1. Has a ten-thousand volt batarang

2. Finger Taser :) powerful enough to KO squid.

3. Gauntlet batarangs

4. Has a mini-missile launcher in his gauntlet.

Close Combat

We all know how amazing Bruce is hand-to-hand combat.

No Caption Provided
Bruce mimics Lady Shiva's
Bruce mimics Lady Shiva's "Leopard Blow", but preforms it in a such way that is non-lethal.
Uses a pressure point on a cybernatic-gorilla (only comics, lol.) KO'ing him instantly.
Uses a pressure point on a cybernatic-gorilla (only comics, lol.) KO'ing him instantly.
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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Every year, the US sends someone from the military with the best tech the country can offer to try and beat Batman. They 've failed every time.
Every year, the US sends someone from the military with the best tech the country can offer to try and beat Batman. They 've failed every time.

Conclusion

Very basic post, especially given all the time I took. Sorry about that. However I've covered what I need to in regards to how I envision Batman taking down Cyclops, which boils down to evasion and cqc and/or gadgets from range.

@krleavenger Super sorry about the delay, won't happen again you have my word.

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#30  Edited By KrleAvenger

Scott Summers - Cyclops - Leader of the X-Men

No Caption Provided

@batman3000 Nice post mate. I'm pretty excited to debate for Cyclops, especially against everybody's favorite street leveler, Batman. Although I'm afraid I won't be able to cite issue numbers for every scan I post, as I don't have them saved on my computer or anywhere else, and I won't be able to remember all the issues. I'm currently rereading X-Men comics and a lot of Cyclops appearances, so I didn't want to use Cyclops in a CaV until I reread all those comics as well as the ones I have never read before, in order to avoid out of context scans and provide caption every time I post. But you wanted to do another CaV with me for quite some time so I didn't want to make you wait. And Summers was the best option so let's do this.

=======================================================================================================

Before I get into the actual debate, I will just provide some info for Scott Summers. For the sake of saving time, I'll just post panels from various Marvel Handbook entries. They provide a lot of info on Summer's origin, history as well as powers and abilities.

  • Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol. 1 #3
  • Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #3
  • Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: X-Men 2004

Powers and Abilities

  • Solar Energy Absoption
  • Optic Blast
  • Spatial Awareness
  • Energy Immunity
  • Telepathy Resistance
  • Expert Hand to Hand Fighter
  • Martial Art Knowledge
  • Master Tactician
  • Intelligence
  • Nigh-Peak Human Stats

Now let's get into the actual debate. And the first part is pretty obvious.

Optic Blast

No Caption Provided

Of course, I'm using Pre-Marvel Now Cyclops, meaning I'm using regular visor even non Comic Book fans have seen, where Summers can press the button to shoot Optic Blast from his eyes and visor (even tho he can shot Optic Blast without pressing the button, as you can see above from cropped scan I have taken from Avengers vs X-Men #1). But for the sake of being consistent, here are two more instances with Summers firing Optic Blasts without pressing against his visor.

  • Uncanny X-Men Vol. 1 #93
  • Uncanny X-Men Vol. 1 #95
  • Uncanny X-Men Vol. 1 #96

Also Summers I'm using does not shoot Optic Blast which takes shape of multiple energy blasts that travel under weird angles, as I'm sure you have seen him do in his red costume with X-like visor. Again, I won't be using that Cyclops here. Now before I get into Optic Blast's destructive power and what not, allow me to explain what it actually is.

As you can see in those panels I have posted above from Marvel Handbook entries, Cyclops's eyes actually work as a portal from another dimension/Universe to this one, projecting red beam of kinetic energy (which does not contain any heat by the way). Earlier was believed that Summer's body absorbs Solar Energy, converting it into the Optic Beams, which has been later retconned into the former. There is also no limit to the energy Cyclops can unleash from his eyes. As long as they are opened they will always project the optic beams.

Although opening the aperture is possible thanks to the solar energy his body has absorbed, so technically solar energy absorption is still a part of his powers. They are just there for a different reason. The reason why Summers can't control the optic blast is because of the damage done to his nerves and brain that would allow him to control them. Like I said before, the beams don't produce heat like regular lasers, but they can pierce through or push objects and people backwards. He can even use them to counter gas or other energy attacks, similar to DBZ blasts.

Summers can negate the effect of optic blasts by closing his eyes, but he can't do that for longer than 8 hours. Also, Summers is not only completely invulnerable and immune to the effects of his optic blast but the powers of his younger brother Havok as well, as his body generates the aperture by absorbing the Solar Energy. So by the time the beam hits him, it actually teleports back to the Universe where it came from, from which were send here by travelling through Summer's eyes. By focusing, Summers has the ability to control the size of aperture, allowing him to control the range and diameter of the beams.

The maximum range of the beam is 2000 feet, and Summers is capable of projecting an optic blast that is around 90 feet across, meaning it will be extremely difficult if not impossible for Batman to aim-dodge optic beams if the length of the diameter gets increased. And when Summers takes off his visor, can do do something like this:

As you can see in in Astonishing X-Men #8, Summers completely destroyed a Sentinel as well as trees and the ground in front of them, and the blast was so big it looked like it was omni-directional (it wasn't, but shows how big it can be). Not that Summers will rely on such tactic in this scenario. It would be way OOC (out of character). I'm just showing you the effectiveness of his optic beams. Of course, the destructive power and the form of the optic blast can also be controlled by the Visor, which I'm gonna post again from Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Deluxe Edition #3. Everything else mentioned here has also been confirmed in other Marvel Handbook entries posted above.

No Caption Provided

Also, I will say this right away. I don't think you should waste your time posting durability feats for Batman (hence only outliers can save him, like tanking blows from Superman), because he is not tanking a single optic blast. Sure, he won't get killed since Summers doesn't kill, but considering the fact that his only goal here is to beat Batman, I don't see why he would hold back. In X-Men: Schism #4, Scott busted a huge hole through one of the most powerful Sentinels they have ever faced.

No Caption Provided

He kinda exhausted himself using this just a little bit, but he doesn't need that much force to put Batman down. After all, most combat feats I will use are with him using smaller optic blasts, and even those are powerful enough to KO Batman. His narrowest beam has the diameter of the pencil, but he can still extend it without exhausting himself. There are numerous instances where he has done so it will be absurd to post them all, but for the sake of proving my point, here is the scan from Astonishing X-Men #7

No Caption Provided

I'll get into more damage output feats later.

Spatial Awareness

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In case you didn't know, Summers possesses the uncanny sense of trigonometry, in sense that, he has the ability to describe his observation of objects around himself and the angles found between surfaces of these objects. It is so accurate and astonishing, it almost seems like a superhuman ability. This will be one of the key factors in this fight. Before I get into it, I want to tell you that Cyclops Optic Blasts have been stated to travel at light speed multiple times.

You may be thinking that a statement like that is absurd because a lot of street levelers have dodged his Optic Blasts. Well the reason that's so is because they have enough time to move away before the beams starts to travel, effectively "aim-dodging" it (same thing most street levelers do with bullets, even tho Batman is an actual bullet timer), which makes sense because they will see Summers trying to shot it from his visor by applying the pressure with his finger, giving them time to move away (which won't work if he just projects it without pressing anything, but he does that when he is angry and unleashes a lot of power so...). If you want proof, it has actually been stated that the servos in Summer's visor are slower than light, on the same panel where they have been stated to travel at light speed.

No Caption Provided

This proves that anyone who "dodges" Summer's attacks is not dodging the beam itself, but moves away before the beam even starts to travel. Because of the fact that Batman is fast and skilled enough to aim-dodge his regular optic blast (even tho Summers tagged people with superior speed and agility than Bruce, which I'll get into later), Summer's spatial awareness will allow him to take Batman down. While his Optic Blasts can either pierce through objects or throw them backwards, they also have the ability to ricochet, or reflect if you prefer, off the objects they hit, changing the trajectory to Summer's liking. In course of one blast only, Summers can cause it to ricochet over a dozen objects and surfaces and eventually hit the target with an extreme accuracy. Considering the fact that we are fighting in closed space, Summers will have no problem relying on his spatial awareness to allow his blasts to ricochet. It will be impossible for Batman to aim dodge his attacks over and over and over again. We are 50 feet away, and Summer's is not a snail. His reflexes are pretty astonishing. But I'll get into that later. Let me show you how effective this ability in particular actually is.

=================================================================================

  • Shoots Optic Blast with such accuracy, it ricochets from behind Magneto's back, hitting his helmet with such speed, it moves it upwards hitting Magneto in the face. It's impressive humiliate someone as powerful and capable as Magneto like this (X-Men Vol. 2 #113)
  • Quickly shoots Optic Blast in the floor, it ricochets from it to two different parts of destroyed wall right into Shaw's back, throwing his off balance (Uncanny X-Men Vol. 1 #152)
  • And does something ridiculous as this (Uncanny X-Men Vol. 1 #124)

======================================================================================

Honestly, I think this is enough for the opener. I know I have to provide more evidence for some stuff I've just said, but since you focused more on representing Batman and showing what he is capable of instead of outright saying that he beats Summers for certain reason, I think it's fair if I just represent what Summers is capable of and focus on him beating Batman later (even tho I kinda focused on my strategy right away but there are still a lot of stuff to talk about). While I will get more in depth when it comes to Summer's speed, reflexes, accuracy and overall fighting and tactical skills later, I just want to go over your gear section.

While Batman does use batarangs quite often and will most likely use them here, I highly doubt he will rely on stuff like 10.000 volt batarang, mini missile launcher or tasers in a situation like this. It isn't more likely for him to do something like that than it is for Summers to rely on the same type of Optic Blast he used the Sentinel, which will one shot/KO Batman instantly. He may use gauntlet batarangs eventually, but they can be countered via larger optic blast, just like batarangs can be destroyed/reflected with regular Optic Blast.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

As you can see above in Wolverine: Origins #5, Logan just threw a katana at Julian Keller (Hellion) and Summers had no problem countering it with his Optic Blast with enough accuracy to throw it to the side completely, without even hitting Hellion, even tho it wasn't directed at him. Logan was also pretty close to Hellion, and Summers reacted to the katana after Logan threw it, even tho Logan was going for the kill here. Logan is also pretty strong and accurate himself, so I don't see batarangs being a huge factor in this fight (again, I'll get more into accuracy and speed/reflexes later).

====================================================================================

That's about it for the opener. Also I would appreciate if you use spoiler blocks when you post big scans, especially multiple big scans. Anyway, good luck with your next post. I'm looking forward to it. Show me what you've got ;)

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@krleavenger: Noice post.

If you need any scan issue numbers, shoot me a PM, and I can help you out

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@krleavenger: Looks good man, I'll try to get a post down ASAP. Won't be today or tomorrow though, studying for a test.

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@batman3000: Thanks man. Take your time. I am busy myself.

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#37  Edited By Batman3000

@krleavenger: I am so sorry man, every time I try to commit this I get buried with work from school and basketball. I do have some time to myself for awhile though in these next few days and I think I can now manage school, basketball and this. But I just want to make sure you want to continue first.

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#39  Edited By APEX_pretador

@batman3000: you should use spoiler blocks at least for scans

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#40  Edited By Batman3000
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@batman3000: To be honest, I kinda lost interest in this debate, but if you really want to continue with this debate, feel free to do so.

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@krleavenger: If you've lost interest than it probably isn't best to continue it. Sorry man I took so long to get back to you and communicate.

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#43  Edited By KrleAvenger

@batman3000: Don't worry about it. It's not just because it's been a while since I posted my opener, but I kinda lost interest in the Battle Forum almost completely. CaVs are still the thing, but I think I should stay away from those as well until I get interested. Besides, I'm still rereading Summers' early appearances so I guess it will be better if we postpone this and maybe continue few months later.

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@krleavenger: What would you think about picking this back up again?

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@batman3000: I still have two more CaVs I need to finish and I won't have much time for Vine these days. I don't think it's the best idea to continue with this right now.