CaV: Bambina(Laufnyr) VS Saitama(ComicGirl21)

I think everyone on this forum and their mother knows who Saitama is, so I don't think anything more than a brief bio is necessary for his introduction. Saitama is a human protagonist of the ongoing "One-Punch Man" webcomic/manga/anime series. His story is relatively simple. He is an average guy who always wanted to be a hero, so he trained as hard as he could, subjugating himself to a harsh training every single day, until one time he mysteriously broke the rules of his reality and became so ridiculously fast, durable and super-strong that he can beat absolutely anybody with one punch and little effort, without sustaining any damage himself. Ever since then he is looking for a worthy opponent. Anybody who could make him feel a thrill of an actual fight again. So far, no such challenge appeared. All of the monsters and mutants and aliens he's fought up until this point weren't even enough to "make him feel a thing". It all blurs together as fodder mass to him.

Since details surrounding Saitama's power remained a mystery to this day, over the years, a vital question was asked by fans a million times - what exactly is Saitama's limit? Can he beat those city-wrecking monster as easily as planet busters? Or star busters? Or solar-system busters? Can he beat interdimensional gods and reality warpers? Skyfather tiers? Team busters? God tiers? Where does it make sense to say he stops definitely? How do we digest this guy?

From these intense discussions surrounding Saitama's immense power over the years a few well founded and thought out arguments emerged, and I'll do my best to present those to you in this post. Will we arrive at definitive, 100% argument proof, practically canon conclusions here? No. Even pretending that we have those at this stage of the story would be just a lie on my end. Will we see a reliable, logical and sufficient arguments to prove Saitama can, at the very least, beat Bambina specifically? Absolutely. Let's jump right in.

A fairly popular argument is to say Saitama's strength doesn't really have a limit. Based first on a famous description of Saitama given by Boros, this theory is extremally hard to prove definitively, but still not a complete asspull either. Obviously, a wildly unpopular theory on Comic Vine, and regarded as borderline wank - and to be fair, I can totally see why. However, it is still true that there is a logic behind it and I'd like you to consider it - even though I'm going to use a different argument for my base line in this CaV, some elements of this theory will surely help you realize that Bambina can't possibly beat Saitama. That's why we're talking about it. Not because I embrace the whole theory. I hope that's clear. :)

First, Boros's quote aside, let's see from the author himself - what does he think Saitama's power is like? Obviously if he wants his character to be infinite or anything else for that matter, there isn't anything that stops him from doing just that.

"One" was asked in an interview in 2015 a quite suggestive question about Saitama ALWAYS finishing off all of his enemies, regardless of how strong they are. You could say, a question that assumes Saitama being infinite in his ability to One Punch anything, like the title suggests. Suprisingly, One doesn't dodge the question, but seems to be doubling down on the issue.

"all I have to do is have him (Saitama) show up to punch the problem away"

"If anything happens, I can always count on Saitama"

It looks like One himself really agrees that Saitama will always be able to one shot his enemy just like the question suggested, no matter what monster he can ever think about or what problem arises, Saitama is the ultimate solution all the time. That's quite a powerful statement, considering he is the author! In the context of this CaV let me just ask yall: Do you think it's improbable that One would, or could introduce a monster as powerful as Bambina? I honestly can't see why not.

Then there is logic provided for Saitama's strength given by the story:

In chapter 88 of the manga, we learn about the existence of the "limiter". It's a restriction given to all living beings by "GOD" that gives them a set range of growth.

We also learn that Saitama no longer has his own limiter.

If the Limiter defines your cap for growth and Saitama doesn't have it, it's not outrageous to assume his potential growth is infinite. I think that's a fairly logical conclusion.

We also know from Saitama himself that he reached his maximum potential. This we know from his heart to heart with King.

And last but not least, "One", the author of One-Punch Man also has the same view of the character. In his own words, Saitama has reached his full power from the very start of the series. He is like an EOS character thrown at the start of the series. In short, his growth is finished from the start.

This is where the Infinite Saitama Theory reaches its peak. If Saitama's growth has infinite potential, but he's already reached his maximum, then wouldn't that mean he achieved infinite power? There's the foundation for the "Infinite Saitama" theory for you. And now Boros's statement about Saitama's energy having no limits seems a lot more understandable.

Even if you disagree with this logic, there's still a lot of valuable data we can get from these statements. For example, the above quote from "One" clearly states that Saitama is at the very least on the level of EOS shonen protagonists. This includes characters such as EOS Simon (TTGL), EOS Goku (Dragon Ball) even EOS Toriko (Toriko), and many other characters who are far above and beyond Bambina in every conceivable way. So once again, even if we disagree with the Infinite Saitama theory and just go with absolutely bare minimum these statements are suggesting, we still arrive at a quite definitive conclusion that Saitama beats Bambina without too much trouble anyway.

Another theory that provides a good set of specs to view Saitama's power through and deserves an honest look is the toonforce/gag character theory. Even taking all of the jokes and memes aside, regardless of how you look like it, there is something about Saitama that makes you feel that normal set of rules do not apply to him. We even have a WOG statement from Murata that he agrees with this to some extent, comparing Saitama to Arale.

Outside of the WOG statement, we have countless examples of Saitama "breaking the rules of reality" in a manner that doesn't make much sense, and seems just to be gag for the gag's sake. Unless we concede the toonforce argument, it's hard to make much sense out of these events. How else do we reconcile Saitama being bothered with a cat scratching his face, with him later on not even noticing a "dragon-level" cat monster going all out on his undefended scalp? "Weird" doesn't quite cut it. Looks like a clear cut gag moment.

Isn't it exactly the same principle as we'd apply to characters like Buggs, who are being bothered on a daily basis by insignificant stuff like guns, axes and heavy weights crushing them, only to then survive a moon exploding without a scratch?

Once again, seems like a believable conclusion. Then we have this, I believe the best argument that can be given for Saitama's toonforce theory, a rather recent feat. You've probably guessed it, it's Saitama physically punching a hole in a spiritual dimension.

It also helps that we learn about this another dimension or "Phoenix Space" from the earlier panels and chapters. We know it's a spiritual plane of existence that can be channeled by the users of toy costumes. We know that unless you're spirit is in tune with Phoenix Man, physical touch isn't even possible in that space. It even has it's own separate spacetime continuum.

By all accounts, Saitama literally, physically punching a hole in this space, space that isn't physical, that isn't a part of the same space-time continuum even, like he just casually did, is impossible. Not if he is a toonforce character though. That would explain this feat quite reliably. And I don't think there's anybody who can provide a reasonable argument as to why Saitama wouldn't be a toonforce character either.

And last but not least, we've got another statement from Murata about whether or not Saitama could've been defeated by BFR if Boros's kick didn't send him to the moon, but rather into open space. The answer is... amusing to say the least.

Basically, Murata laughs, names a few ridiculous ways he thinks Saitama could've gotten back to Earth that don't make much sense, and then quite literally points out that Saitama only would've been able to do that because... he is "the only character living in a GAG world" Damn. So basically, he is like a Looney Tune stuck in an otherwise serious manga? Now that's a good argument for this theory if I ever saw any.

Once again, I'm not going to put all of my cards on this theory either, but even if you disagree with it after being presented with those feats and statements, there is still quite a lot we can learn from it either way. Most certainly enough to prove Saitama beats Bambina. For example, the first statement I've presented for this theory very clearly shows that Saitama is "on a whole different plane compared to other characters from the manga" this is quite significant, because it basically means that if I can find any characters who can even approach Bambina's power in Saitama's manga, Saitama is "on a whole different plane compared to Bambina" as well. Like you're about to learn, this will be quite easy for me.

Those who read my CaVs know I'm a sucker for feats beyond everything else. While it is true that both One and Murata have slipped and said a few quite bold statements in the past, I think we should be able to see it realized in the manga to take it all for granted, and I don't think we had at this point. This is why instead of betting all of mymoney one of the above theories being 100% reliable, I'm only presenting them to you as something to consider and learn from, while I take my own way of interpreting Saitama's feats as the foundation for this CaV. So let's talk my approach. The practical approach. Let's talk feats. We've learned that Saitama is completely and utterly superior to anything we can see in his manga. On a whole other plane to anything else. So what exactly is he above and beyond?

Beyond star busting

Early in the manga we run into an interesting fella that I've already mentioned. The fan favorite and cool looking alien named Boros. What is particularly interesting is his introduction in the anime though. Look at what he says:

That's right. When talking about ravaging across the universe Boros isn't actually talking about being able to wreck anyBODY. He is talking about his ability to wreck anyTHING in the universe. "Things" in the universe would include, obviously heavenly bodies such as moons, comets and planets of course, yes, but also stars. We are even shown both planets AND stars while he is telling us this introduction.

Another hint is dropped at us when Boros uses his final move. Even though it could be translated differently as the kanji for "hoshi" can be used to talk about planets, stars or just different heavenly bodies in general, the canon translation that was chosen for the anime dub version wasn't a planet, but a star. "Collapsing Star Roaring Canon".

Yes, you might say - but that's certainly not enough to prove anything, right? If we go by this logic, wouldn't it mean Jiro's "Big Bang" attack is a universe busting move?

I totally agree.The name of the move is hardly any proof for its power without at least some backing statements. But it can give us an idea about how to approach the kanji for heavenly body "hoshi" in the context of One-Punch Man manga, and Boros and his final move, specifically.

And this brings me to a more reliable source of information on the topic - that being the OPM guidebook called Compus, a paper written by One himself as an attachment to the anime DVD.

As you can see, the statement is very direct and plain. Boros can bust stars, it says. OBLITERATE them, literally. In every other case, this would be case close, point proven. But this is comicvine so let me put some actual groundwork for this feat to make it stick. No, it's not been "debunked". It was certainly attacked many times, but I haven't seen anybody produce a single logical counterargument yet to be honest. Either way, let me dispose out of the supposed debunks from the get go.

"Hoshi doesn't mean a star"

This is the foundation for the so called "debunk" of this feat. Supposedly, it was an error in translation, that everyone who was working on the guide, including One himself, has simply overlooked.

This is false. Hoshi can mean a star, and most of the time it sure does. It was always bothering me that so many people would just embrace this fallacy without even doing as much as googling the subject in the first place. "Star" is "Hoshi's" primary meaning. Please see below a few examples from the most popular Japanese dictionaries available online:

That will do, I guess. Once more, just to sink in - this lie is nothing but a fabrication for the OPM haters to hide behind.

First and foremost, hoshi does mean a star, so it can't be a mistranslation. And it's not one of a thousand possible options, it's the first and primary meaning of the word, so much so that most dictionaries you can find won't even bother to mention the planet being it's secondary meaning. Trying to dismiss the whole thing based on that is just a farce.

While I would agree there is a room for disagreement when it comes to Boros's level from the manga only (since Compus was produced for anime DVD's specifically) anime Boros I can use here basically shuts down all of the counterarguments instantly. It's not debatable at all, it's as set in stone as anything in fiction can be, really.

Secondly, even if, let's say, it was more fitting to translate hoshi as a planet rather then a star, what then? This is exactly what canon translations are for. If we, the mere fans with our headcanons have some doubt about how we should translate some kanji from any manga... canon, official translations like the one from Compus here is exactly what we should look for the clear things out. Attacking a canon translation is in itself, completely unfounded, unless anybody can point out to a correction made by One or Murata. And you can't, because they've produced the Compus, and they're fine with the translation. Many English versions of these booklets have been hand signed by One and in many interviews he's been openly stating that international audiences are his prime motivation for doing OPM in the first place. Accusing him of negligence without even a shadow of proof is just disgraceful.

Another thing to consider other than just the word used in the Compus itself, is the broader context. If you've ever watched pro translators working on texts that have double meanings and are hard to translate, it is always the primary rule - what is the context suggesting is the most reliable option here?

Let's take a look at the previous entry for Boros's base form from the Compus:

Once again, I'm not sure how can we make a more clear cut conclusion about this dilemma. So Boros's base form receives an entry that says outloud, that Boros can "blast away" entire PLANETS. Plural. Now tell me, those of you who have any doubts about this fuss still, what sense does it make exactly, for the guide to say very plainly that Boros in his base form can blow away entire planets, only to later add when addressing his final form and final move as something that can destroy a single planet? No, the context very reliably points out in the exact opposite direction. This only makes sense if we go from planets to a star as his new forms get stronger. The context doesn't help the doubters at all, it clearly supports my case.

Last but not least, I argue this makes even more sense if we look at the effects of the attack itself in the anime. When Boros directs his attack at Saitama, he says it will blast him and his planet straight to hell. Now most people would say - SEE, that's not a star busting move, it's planet busting at best! Wrong again.

Boros clearly isn't aiming at the Earth, hoping for Saitama to die along with it's destruction. We can see he is aiming directly at Saitama, who is standing on top of a massively durable spaceship, hanging kilometers in the air above the planet. If his goal was to simply planet bust, it would only make sense to direct his attack straight at it, directly. But no, he is aiming at Saitama, a person he just went ALL OUT against in his most powerful form, and got totally destroyed:

And he still believes that this attack has enough power to both KILL Saitama and planet bust the Earth... as a mere COLLATERAL.This attack isn't just planet level, and it was never presented as such in the anime. It was always way beyond that.

• So Boros sure talks like he's been busting stars before.
• His attack sure sounds like it could bust stars.
• The guidebook sure talks about him busting stars.
• And if you look at the context, even the feat of Boros using the attack itself clearly suggests something way beyond just planet level AP tier, which would be star level.

And that's practical approach. The feats match the statements and the statements match the context. Everything works out in a perfect circle and makes logical sense. Saitama is on a whole other plane... when compared to star busters. And there are no serious objections in sight that I've ever found on CV. I'm very curious to see if my opponent can bring something new and interesting to the table. For now, I'd say it's very unlikely.

And if you're thinking Saitama stops at this "beyond star busting" tier I'm presenting here, you've seen nothing yet! The verse didn't even reach it's climax after all! There's still GOD, an interdimensional deity that's gonna be the final boss of the series that appears to be governing its own dimension of reality with its own cosmos...

...and Saitama is on a "whole other plane" to THAT as well!

There's recent developments like Saitama completely no-selling an attack that distorted space itself across dimensions of reality...

and of course there's the ever evolving Garou...

We all know what's coming in the next chapters. New feats that will push the "practical approach" cap even further, likely before our CaV even finishes, granting me even more firepower for my arguments. We've already been introduced to his final form, which most certainly is going to have even higher cosmic level feats judging by his sheer design and nature. And we have this promise from Murata when it comes to what's coming, so we don't even have to speculate about that. It's a matter of time, that's all there is to it.

And according to statements we've seen, Saitama is clearly on a whole other plane to all of it! On another plane to his WHOLE manga, we read. Interdimensional gods, Garou's full monster and cosmic forms, Boros's final form, Blast and his cosmic avengers crew, and all their feats... and anything "One" else can think of, apparently. Saitama will always be on a whole other level to all of it, capable of tanking it all without blinking and one shooting it right back up to the point of being comparable to Arale from DB. Because this is his role in this story. Because he is One-Punch Man and he's already reached his final level settings. If we swapped Saitama with Bambina, could the same statements be made about him? Absolutely not. This is why Saitama wins this matchup.

Now that we've spent a bit of our time establishing the AP/durability tier for Saitama, let's briefly review his speed, which is an equally important matter. After all, if you can't hit your opponent, you'll have a hard time winning a fight.

Establishing Saitama's speed far above Bambina's is a piece of cake, even more so then his attack potency. Obviously, much like when it comes to his AP, the statements regarding his potentially infinite speed or toonforce-like ability to transcend physical speed is something you may or may not treat seriously, depending on your point of view. But still, I will be looking once again at a more grounded approach and try my best to set his speed cap at what we see and what is consistent with the WOG statements and the context of the story.

The reason why I say it's a piece of cake is simple. You see, Saitama was faster than light even before he broke through his limits, when he was still a not-so-bald average hero bound by the same rules as all other characters in the story.

https://cubari.moe/read/gist/Z2lzdC9mdW5reWhpcHBvLzFkNDBiZDVkYWUxMWUwM2E2YWYyMGU1YTlhMDMwZDgxL3Jhdy9vcG0uanNvbg/163-5/5/

I'm not the biggest fan of the "fan made calcs" and am generally treating them as last resort when the feats can't give us a clean cut conclusion. I prefer when calcs take the back seat to what is actually happening on panels more often than not. I won't be calculating this feat because of that, I'll just show you my basic logic:

Feat: Saitama trains until he is able to see the reflection of the back of his own head in a mirror.

"red" - Saitama's nose will be the fastest moving object here, as it is "sticking out" the most from the line of rotation, which is Saitama's neck. Notice, the rest of his body isn't turning. And I think it's very clearly visible, that the nose travels relatively small distance when compared to "green" - the distance the light, which is bearing the image of the back of his head, has to travel, FROM his scalp, to the mirror, and then back to his eye when he rotates. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the distance light has to travel is at least a couple times longer than Saitama's nose. And consider, that if he was to rotate his entire body (like he does in the last panel) his arms and legs would move even faster. His nose is the slowest moving body part.

It also helps that in the last scan, just before he manages to see a glimpse of his own scalp, he moves FURTHER away from the mirror, increasing the distance the light has to travel. His arms and legs (that we see moving) has got to be moving a dozen and more times faster than light at this point to achieve this feat. Either that, or we'll just consider it toonforce altogether.

If we look at the context of the story, we also see no issues there. Neither One, nor Murata see a problem with a human achieving LS level speeds and even going beyond that. Just look at their statements about Flashy Flash, who is 100% non-enhanced, non-monstrified human, just like Saitama was at that moment.

Beyond MFTL

And this is the level that Saitama surpassed when he removed his limiter to such a degree, he became on a whole other plane by comparison? Now what would be whole other plane to a character who can be very plainly proved to be FTL? Yup, MFTL Saitama and beyond is not fan wank anymore, it's reality guys. And I don't just mean reality via statements.

Just look at this simple example for a proof that it's not my headcanon but factual reality of the manga. Here's a brief analysis of Saitama fighting Garou in the recent chapters.

Monster Garou (form 1) had absolutely CRAZY speed feats and statements already, right? Within the span of a single transformation he went from sublight to blitzing Platinum Sperm with a frontal assault, for example. The same Platinum Sperm, who laughed at Flashy Flash's FTL full speed attacks.

And even a borderline lowball calcs like this one (it does not take into consideration the "constellation" lines that were lost due to conversion of the solid geometry construct from 3D to 2D) easily put Platinum Sperm at 4x the speed of light. And Garou evolves up to a point he can EASILY statue him. Blitzes him head on and PS can't even BLINK. Once again, all from sublight tier, within the same transformation. And it's transformation that provide actual explosive growth in OPM. That's how monstrification works.

Then the same Garou, who blitzes the FTL blitzers like Platinum Sperm moves forward and receives not 1...

...not 2...

...not 3...

BUT FOUR!

...massive stats boosts from that point on. And yes, we do know for a fact that the transformations mean further evolution of his speed, not just power, because he tells us specifically that he is trying to overcome Saitama by increasing his speed, among other things:

But in Garou's own words, no matter how far he evolves he doesn't feel like he is getting ANY closer to Saitama's stats at all.

And his monstrification was SPEEDIG UP too! If he can go from sublight to casually beyond 4xLS, he should obviously be approaching MFTL after four transformations, that's quite logical. Imagine where exactly is Saitama's speed cap, if a character who should at this point be tens if not hundreds of times faster than light, can't even feel his own progress in comparison to him. It's like if he's not even 1% on the progress bar to reach Saitama... while evolving into a MFTL character himself. Crazy.

And it shows a lot. I mean even at the very end, when Garou's monster form bulks up, grows new arms and receives its final amp, he is so "slow" that Saitama, without any martial arts technique up his sleeve at all can still very casually slap back all of his countless genius level combo attacks with one hand. 0 phacks were given that day.

"Massively Faster Than Light" is a term used when refer to characters who can move at merely 100 times LS. I don't think there is any logical reason to doubt Saitama is WAY beyond that cap. At this point that's easily GAROU's speed tier, and since he just got a whole new form too (Cosmic Fear Mode), it's a matter of days before we see him climb even higher. But still, by his own admission, he doesn't even feel like he's making any progress when it comes to catching up to Saitama. The baldy didn't even get serious with him ONCE yet.That's how fast Saitama is. God of speed in the flesh.

But that's enough about Saitama for now. There'll be time to polish these feats and present some new ones in the counters. I'd like to also take a look at Toriko verse, and Bambina specifically, before I close my argumentation, so let's make some room for that analysis now.

There's a common thing about Toriko advocates on CV that I've noticed over the years. Almost none of them actually read Toriko, and little to none (if any) read it in its entirety. Perhaps this is why some misunderstandings about the verse are so widespread: from one ear to another, without anybody having the knowledge or patience to read Toriko front to back and verify what is true.

Not that I can blame anybody. Truth be told, I've only read Toriko myself a couple years back because I lost a drinking game. Yup, don't drink and drive they say, it should actually be don't drink and bet... Without insulting any Toriko enthusiasts, let's just say my personal opinion is that Toriko manga is not the greatest. The story is quite predictable and linear, the art could've seen a redraw or two on some panels, and the theme of everyone and everything being all about food all the time... well it can just get exhausting after a while, for someone who's not a chef or a food hyper-enthusiast, I guess. It has its moments, it has some quite hilarious jokes, it has some badass characters (call me Midora ;*), it has one heck of a finale. Still, in a vast and colorful world where a hundred new mangas are born everyday, it would be hard for me to say that careful reading of nearly 400 chapters worth of Toriko is something I'd recommend.

Forced by a friend to sit through the entirety of Toriko with a magnifying glass, there was something I noticed almost immediately that I've never picked up on on the forums. And that is, that Toriko cosmos makes no freakin sense. When I finished the last chapter I was honestly confused. I'm aware that most forums users live their own dimension of reality that's quite often very much separated from the canon intention of the author, but I don't think I've seen it ever being abused to this extent, outside of perhaps the "multiversal Yhwach" from Bleach.

Large planet busting they say.

Star tanking they say.

Supernova level attack potency they say.

Nothing. Nothing even CLOSELY resembling feats on these tiers can be found anywhere in Toriko. Why is that? It's very simple, really.

Like I mentioned above, EVERYTHING in Toriko is about food. It is a "gourmet manga" genre after all. But what you need to understand is that when I say everything, I literally mean it. Everything, in the entire universe is about food. And this has consequences. Let's take a brief, but very necessary and educational look at Toriko cosmology, shall we?

Let's start with this one. What exactly is a flour dumpling... star? How exactly is busting THIS considered star busting again? Did any of you knew that stars in Toriko are made out of dough in the first place? Quite a shocker.

But hey, maybe it's not a standard... or is it?

Now this is just ridiculous. So now stars aren't just edible, they're actual animals? Wouldn't that mean that "star busting" becomes completely insignificant? Obviously all you need to do to star bust a mammoth is just to stab it in its brain or in the heart. And ...poof, the star "dies". Doesn't that change the perspective?

Or how about this cluster of stars, that are quite literally gigantic fruits on a tree, free floating through space? Can any of you recalculate for me how impressive is busting a star that has the structure and biology of an oversized apple? Galactus would sure love this universe...

This cluster of stars looks even better. Cotton candy stars? Sign me up. Haven't had any of those "stars" since I was a wee girl.

Well, stars doesn't seem to make any damn sense in Toriko, how about the planets though? Maybe the planets are at least planet-like, no? You know, with a molten lava core, rocky layers, all of that stuff?

Wrong again! Yup, planets make just as much sense as the planets I see. How about this one, that has icrecream underneath the crust. Physics of that planet must be all kinds of funny, and all kinds of useless, unquantifiable nonsense too.

Oh look! It's Dango candy... planet...s. Can anybody explain to me the physics of this? How are they supposed to rotate around anything, let alone spin themselves? And also, they're made out of mochiko, since they're dango, right? Can anyone recalculate for me please the physics of busting a gigantic ball made out of boiled sugar-flour? Also what the hell is that stick made out of to hold planets like that...

In fact, why don't we just zoom out and see how the Milky Way looks in Tori...OH MY LAWD

That's right. The galaxies themselves in Toriko aren't even galaxies. They're just big tables for the Gourmet Gods. Now it makes sense why the stars are made out of flour and meat and planets are made out of sugar and ice cream. Because they don't even have the purpose of planets at all. They're not heavenly bodies, they're heavenly freakin snacks. They're actual food for enormous, oversized cosmic beings. They don't even share the same origin as the actual planets and stars. The way galaxies in Toriko formed wasn't via Big Bang. It was via... food bang. Hahaha holy cow xD

Perhaps you're wondering what is even the point of all of that. I think you've figured it out by now. If everything in Toriko is made out of food, it makes all of their scaling to cosmic bodies and cosmic events useless.When a character in Toriko world says "this has as much energy as a star going supernova!" They don't actually mean 10^44 joules, like we all do when we say this phrase in any other context, but rather, as much energy as it takes to blow apart a gigantic flour candy.

If there are no planets, there is no planet busting. If there are no stars, the is no star busting.

That's all there is to it.

"But ComicGirl..." I hear you say "Maybe that's an issue with some faraway stars and planets in the Toriko verse... but we all know and have heard countless times how MASSIVE the Toriko EARTH is! Surely, busting at least this particular planet takes much more than just your average planet busting, so what's the big idea?"

Unfortunately, my dear reader, here is where you were exposed to an often repeated misinformation once again. Not only is Toriko planet just as unquantifiable as the rest of the Toriko universe - it is BY FAR the best example in this manga that proves my point.

First of all, yes, it's true, Toriko planet is BIG. Actually, it isn't just big. It's ridiculously big. WAY TOO BIG.

It's so large, it's actually impossible for such a planet to exist, as its massive gravity would cause it to collapse around itself. Of course, large planets do exist - but they're all gas giants for a reason.

For a good point of reference breeze through this article, about recently discovered planet that's roughly 40 times the size of the Earth. It is by far the biggest rocky planet ever discovered. In fact, 40 times the size of the Earth is so large, that scientists can't even explain what its process of formation could've been. It escapes all probabilities known thus far.

Obviously, it doesn't make any sense for Toriko planet to exist. And even as it is in its own fiction, there is something obviously wrong with it. The gravity on a planet like this would be so massive normal humans couldn't exist anymore. But in Toriko world, an entire Earth-sized human world exists as a part of the planet, where normal humans just walk around and all of the physics are as they used to be.

The solution should be obvious - Toriko planet is gigantic in size only, but it's actually super light.Basically, it's like an inflated balloon.It doesn't even have a core. This is why all of the physics on the surface remained basically the same, especially in the Human World where no weird gourmet tectonic stuff is happening.

And it's more than just a theory. Toriko Earth HAS to be light. It would've become a gas giant a long time ago if it was actually made out of average-density rocks and had a lava core.

But even if we put all of the physics aside, even within its own fiction, Toriko planet isn't actually a rocky planet. Because, like I just showed, planets in Toriko aren't planets at all. The reason why Toriko planet isn't that it's just that big of a rock. It's that it is a dish... that's being cooked.

Maybe now you'll want to say "well even if it's not exactly a planet, it's still MASSIVE, right? And you have no evidence for it being light! So busting that apart should be at least above planet busting still!"

Once again, wrong.

It's not me who doesn't have the proof that Toriko Earth is light. It's my opponent who doesn't have the proof that it's heavy. It has to be light by necessity, and not just because of physics - because of the context of the story.

You see, the way Toriko planet GOT BIG in the first place, wasn't in a process of planetary formation. At some point Toriko Earth was just as big AND HEAVY, as our RL planet, apparently. And that never changed as far as the mass goes. It got big, because of the mysterious "gourmet cells" something that fell from the sky and made the planet bloat up and grow into what it is now.

And gourmet cells to a planet are basically what yiest to a bread.

I'm not even making this up, this is exactly how characters in the manga refer to this phenomenon.

Funnily enough, this reference is dropped EXACTLY at the moment when the female nitro chef reveals the size of Toriko Earth. It was always funny to me that when Toriko fans quote the Earth size they always cut out this quote. When it's actually the most meaningful quote on the whole page and the one that provides some sense into Toriko Earth's ABSURD size.

Obviously, when yeast is added into bread dough, it expands its sheer size immensely, but the weight doesn't change at all. This proves Toriko Earth has a tiny mass, and is basically a gigantic, cosmic balloon. Popping it wouldn't be harder than popping an actual condensed planet. To the contrary.

Yeast also needs fuel, obviously. It consumes calories from the bread itself and this is how the bread grows.

And we know from the story that this is EXACTLY how gourmet cells work within the crust of the Earth. The rocks they form are alive, just like yeast, they consume calories from their surroundings and produce substance called the "gourmet rock". It just wants to keep eating and growing, just like yeast. This is exactly how the Earth was expanded.

We even know where did it took the calories from. The planets core. This is why I said Toriko Earth is a balloon without a core. The core was eaten by the cells.

The point I'm trying to make is very simple. Planet Toriko isn't a planet. Like the rest of the cosmos, it's simply a big dish, that's being cooked for the gourmet gods to eat. By all means, it's unquantifiable how much energy does it takes to blow it up.However, assuming it requires MORE than the Earth, is obviously wrong as well. In actuality, planet Toriko is much easier to blow up than the Earth, because the tiny mass of the original planet Earth is distributed into this gigantic, inflated balloon of a planet with a yeast like processes of the gourmet rocks. They produced the extra mass by eating the planet's core so the mass of the planet stayed relatively the same: And this explains why humans can still walk on Toriko Earth despite its absurd size.

The conclusion so vital for this CaV is simple - which do you think is harder to pop? A firm, tightly packed, condensed, ball of solid rock layers and lava (also called, a standard planet Earth) or a light, swollen, dish-like gigantic blob made out of yeast-infused rocks?

The answer is obvious.

And you know what's funny? OPM universe actually DOES have a large planet Earth. And not a fake flour dumpling or a piece of bread dough. (We see the rock layers and the core on many planet cross sections that Murata drew) a REAL large planet. How's that? Well in the anime, we get to see the full shot of planet Earth with its natural satellites. And its at that point that we discover, that planet Earth in OPM universe has not 1, not 2... but FIVE moons.

The correlation between the number of the moons and the size of the planet is a scientific fact. A large planet guarantees a large area of gravitational stability to support many moons.

5 moons = gigantic Earth.

And this is how the scenario flips on its head. It's not Bambina who gets the crazy planet+ scalings from the feats that "nearly destroyed Toriko planet". His feats are insignificant, unquantifiable and FAR below planetary range, while it is in fact Saitama who gets to scale to a REAL large planet, which is OPM Earth. Yikes!

And suddenly this simple wog:

Means more than all of the feats of Bambina that we're going to get, even without all of my scaling to Boros. The sheer fact that Saitama can bust his own Earth means that he can already bust more than Bambina can possibly even find in his own universe. How embarrassing!

Some people I discussed this with before tried to counter with this neat little panel, that, allegedly, says that destroying Toriko Earth requires more energy than a star going supernova.

I'll address it here briefly, just so we didn't have to return to this old debate either.

Obviously, there is a lot of things wrong with this argument from the get-go.

1. First of all, like we've established earlier, a star blowing up in the Toriko world isn't the same as a supernova in our universe. A flour dumpling or a big elephant blowing up can't be compared to an actual star. So at best it's unquantifiable.

2. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, Toriko Earth is about to explode ALL ON ITS OWN. It doesn't need any star busting attacks to tip over the balance. All it needs is a little bit more time. This is CLEARLY stated several times throughout the manga. The heroes are racing with time by the end, because the Earth is nearly exploding without ANYBODY helping it whatsoever!

It makes no sense to assume that Toriko Earth needs to suffer exploding star levels of energies to explode then. It was ready to explode before the Toriko final battle with all of the explosions and giant hands ever started. The panel is only talking about the energy it'll produce, on its own, with its natural processes when it is fully ripe. It's NOT durability cap for outside attacks. Nothing on the panel says so.

3. Thirdly, the panel doesn't even makes sense in isolation, and this is probably why it caused so much confusion over the years. Let me briefly explain.

Gourmet cells that "fell from the sky" and made Toriko Earth bloat like a piece of bread need to keep on moving. After all, there is no big cosmic chef out there who will take the "yeast" from Earth and plant them on another planet. And this is exactly how they distribute themselves around the cosmos, changing everything into food. Wherever they land - the planet later explodes, so that new cells are spread around the cosmos further. If you look at the larger context of this panel, you'll realize that this is what it's actually talking about.

This is once again, taken straight out of real life cycle of reproduction for some plants. Not surprising at this point, I mean we've seen star clusters that were literally a tree full of apples...

I think the maybe the most popular 1:1 example from our RL would be the sandbox fruit.

Do not be deceived. This small pumpkin-like fruit is by far one of the most deadly fruits on the Earth. And that's not even because it's poisonous (it is). When its ripe, very much like Toriko Earth, it explodes with astonishing force, to spread around its seeds as far as it possibly can. It's small, and while ripe, it is dry and hollow inside (reminiscent once again of the Toriko's "swollen up" Earth) but yes, it really does explode. And when it does, it's already too late to run or hide. It's pieces can fly across hundreds of meters and still penetrate your skin, or take your eye clean off. If you grabbed it while it exploded, your hand would be blown to pieces, similarly to holding a firecracker. And all you need to do to trigger explosion this powerful is to touch it. Gently.

And this illustrates the point I'm trying to make perfectly. Obviously, that tiny, dried up fruit isn't capable of tanking a firecracker explosion in itself, even though it holds a power to generate an explosion even greater then a firecracker. You don't need to be able to tank a star exploding to produce an supernova explosion. It's that simple. The mechanism is taken STRAIGHT out of nature and it makes sense in this context. Actually, all a nasty fruit like that needs to explode is a gentle poke. They can even explode all on their own, hanging on a branch. Just like the Toriko planet is about to explode all on its own, without anyone helping it.

Now, does that mean that everyone in Toriko is fodder? Of course not. There most definitely are statements and even feats out there that can pack a punch even by OPM standards. For example, quite a few attacks had the potency to surface-wipe the human world in Toriko, which would put these attack at multi-continental tier (remember, that even though Toriko planet as a whole has no core and is an oversized balloon, the surface in itself wasn't changed, so I concede that any character who can really destroy the human world is a surface wiper) However when it comes to Bambina I have no doubts that his scaling will not be enough, and I will be glad to demonstrate it in my counters. Heck, even if we disregard my whole case against Toriko cosmology, his feats won't be enough. You'll see.

The last subject I wanted to touch on before we pass the mike to my opponent is the speed cap of the Toriko verse. Very much like the Toriko's absurd cosmology and planetology, it is usually kept secret, because it pretty much ruins all of the fan-made-calcs and benches many characters at sub-light level indefinitely. Bambina is no exception.

So what is the speed cap in Toriko? That's obviously light-speed. Characters in the Toriko universe can not be physically faster than light. This is why Coco's famous poison spears that can accelerate up to the speed of light were so highly praised as projectiles IMPOSSIBLE to dodge by any living creature, no matter how powerful.

This is not a debatable issue either. It is repeated over and over and over again. A living creature CAN NOT be faster than light. Not without literally vanishing physically from existence. In the Toriko world, that's called "entering the back channel" It's basically teleporting, going into another direction where time flows differently, and exiting at a different point in the physical universe.

Don't believe me? Let's look at "another" which is a fish that achieved the fastest possible speed - the speed of light.

At some point, this fish actually surpassed the speed of light - and you guessed it, the moment it did, it literally created a portal into another dimension and vanished. Because you can't achieve those kinds of speeds within the physical universe of Toriko. When you do, you distort reality and you're forced to travel through a different dimension.

The manga makes a huge deal out of this. The whole arc is centered around heroes going into the back channel spirit world to cook this fish that otherwise is impossible to catch... because it's as fast as light.

And it's not like the fish is just one example. This is even the case for the spaceships in the Toriko universe. Even when creating an engine to travel through the deep space, the only way to do is efficiently, at FTL speeds is to equip the spaceship itself with an ability to travel through another dimension.

Every single time a character needs to go faster than the speed of light cap allows him to, they need to use the back channel. Even NeoAcacia, the undisputed strongest eva Toriko character, that scales above Bambina by a landslide.

"Whoa you have to exceed the speed of light Acacia!"

"SO USE THE BACK CHANNEL."

Yes, MFTL Acacia very much confirmed. :D Hahaha

Once again, the Toriko fanbase keeps this little back channel/light speed cap phenomenon under a rag for a reason. It really does ruin everything, doesn't it?

I'll be fair though. Not ALL Toriko characters are locked at LS. Even if Toriko characters have to explicitly use the back channel to move faster than light, those who can, can pull it off, in some way. There are back channel techniques that allow the user to "reverse the connection" and basically make the spirit world dimension overlap with the physical world. In short, they can, in the physical world, actually exceed the speed of light, with hax. A good example would be Starjun.

His special ability "third eye" allows him to track the movements of his enemies in real time, with no delay caused by the light travelling from an object to his normal eyes. And to match his own speed with this phenomenon and exceed the speed of light... he uses the back channel, to create layers around himself, distorting spacetime both for himself and his opponents. Basically, he can have FTL reflexes because of eye hax, and match this speed with his movements with another hax.

Fax.

An argument I hear most from people who try to put some shade on the Toriko speed cap is that "many characters were able to go FTL without using the back channel all the time!" And by many, they mean Snake King, and by all the time, they mean once. Still let's talk about that too. The Snake King who went FTL that one time. It happened of course.

The problem is this doesn't prove anything at all. Like I noticed above, there are characters who can use back channel techniques and other hax to achieve a kind of FTL effective speed in the physical world. This just means Snake King is one of them.

Snake King is a very powerful beast, there is no reason why he wouldn't be able to use it. We saw that some of the 8 Kings CAN use the back channel. For example, the Deer King.

It should be obvious that the back channel was involved with the Snake King's feat. There's nothing that would contradict it and it's the only way to make sense out of the event. Not that suddenly all of the things I've posted above are retconned, that's obviously nonsensical.

With all of that said, my opponent would need to prove that Bambina either can use the back channel techniques directly or provide a plain and canon FTL feat for him to even begin to calculate him the speed of light. And he has none of that, because unlike Saitama, Bambina has a total of 4 combat showings and none of them include it. The best that's probably going to be presented him is dodging a few of Coco's spears, but like I've mentioned above, they aren't light speed from point 0 onwards. They accelerate towards the speed of light. This is where all of the fuss about the translation is coming from.

The age old debate... are coco's spears lightspeed or not? Neither translation was precise enough to help solve it tbh. Just take a look at the kanji yourselves:

The word that's being constantly messed up here and causes all of the confusion is "Kasoku suru" which means literally "to accelerate". You can google it yourselves if you want to. It's not controversial at all. Yes, the spear is lightspeed. However it ACCELERATES TO lightspeed. It doesn't just become lightspeed at the moment Coco releases it out of his hand.

And here's why it's a problem for Bambina. His feat is relativistic at best, because he dodged them at a VERY close range. We've got an on-panel confirmation, that they weren't yet LS, but still in their relativistic speed range.

Dodging relativistic projectiles only requires relativistic+ up to maybe LS reflexes and movements. And then, the aim-dodging also has to be taken into account, since Coco telegraphs his attack out loud and performs it frontally. Perfectly within the cap... It's not a FTL feat at all. So Bambina CAN'T go past the speed of light on his own... and also, for all we know, Bambina CAN'T use the back channel either. And this becomes very apparent when Acacia freezes him with his own back channel, and he can't break himself free. In any case, Saitama can dance around the statued Bambina... Even with his hair still on. Sublight speed is a joke for Saitama.