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#1 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

Atrocitus (@nimamindtricks) vs Terrax the Tamer (@cosmicallyaware1)

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Rules:

  • Atrocitus is pre 52 with New 52 feats and abilities too.
  • Terrax has no jobber aura in this fight.
  • Random Encounter
  • Victory by any means

Gear:

  • Atrocitus has his Red Lantern ring
  • Terrax has his axe

Battle Location:

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  • Planet Hala of the Kree, in their capital city, Kree-Lar
  • Battle starts 2 miles apart from one another

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#2 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 - Alright, it's up! Let me know what you think. It'll take me a few days to gather the scans I lost. I might have enough for the intro part. We'll see.

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#3 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 - Alright, it's up! Let me know what you think. It'll take me a few days to gather the scans I lost. I might have enough for the intro part. We'll see.

AWESOME man! looks great! I have quite a few responses to do in some other threads, I will get to this as soon as I can my man. I can probably throw up an intro soon....

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#4 Posted by Kingant27 (16662 posts) - - Show Bio

This looks good, guys tag me for voting, and @cosmicallyaware1: it's going to be hard for you; especially since his jobbing rep by the Viners etc...

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#5 Posted by The_Invincible_One (594 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for votes

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#6 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Edited by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Awesome to see you using Terrax. I was always a fan of him, and have never really seen him brought up in the battle forums at all. Love seeing some of the lesser known Marvel cosmic characters getting respect. Tag me.

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#8 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingant27:

t's going to be hard for you; especially since his jobbing rep by the Viners etc.

Oh, I am already well aware of that one my man. I know that there are many more Artrocitus fans out there, and Terrax gets a bum rap. But........that's the challenge! I am the king of the "underdog" debate, lol.....read some of my older matches and you will see that. It's what makes you a better debator.

@tparks said:

@cosmicallyaware1: Awesome to see you using Terrax. I was always a fan of him, and have never really seen him brought up in the battle forums at all. Love seeing some of the lesser known Marvel cosmic characters getting respect. Tag me.

thanks man, I was always a big fan myself (along with Firelord).....you know me, cosmic marvel has a soft spot in my heart (probably from the Byrne days of FF). Probably gonna use Blastaar soon too and I really wanna use the Sphinx but haven't had any takers thus far (as he's a pretty high tier). Fo sho will tag ya buddy.

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#9 Posted by Kingant27 (16662 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: I have read your old debates man, there very good, that's why I wasn't suprised with you picking some like Terrax, however I was pointing of his rep; that your obviously aware off...

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#10 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me especially, I have been wanting to see what atro can do for sometime now.

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#11 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be spectacular!!!

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#12 Posted by tparks (11807 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Nice, I used Blastaar against cadence in a tourney about a year ago. That was a fun debate. Tag me if you use him in that match too.

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#13 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: I have read your old debates man, there very good, that's why I wasn't suprised with you picking some like Terrax, however I was pointing of his rep; that your obviously aware off...

awwwww, you've read my older stuff? I'm honored man. Any one in particular that stood out? Anyway........I've been wanting to do Terrax for awhile.

And here's my attitude/mindset towards debates (and one hopefully every debater worth a damn has as well): I don't care about winning or losing and that's not what a good debate should be about anyway. It's about making a great read for the community, and enhancing your knowledge. Winning is an ego thing. I get a kick outta representing characters I like and educate others that may not know them that well. Good times.

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#14 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@cosmicallyaware1: Nice, I used Blastaar against cadence in a tourney about a year ago. That was a fun debate. Tag me if you use him in that match too.

I think I remember that.......................and I sure will man, you're one of my "regulars" for tagging.

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#15 Posted by TheComedian_ (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag Me please

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#16 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, I'll start with a brief intro, @cosmicallyaware1!

Enter: Atrocitus!

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Introduction

Atrocitus. The founder and leader of the Red Lantern Corps.

There is a reason this man is filled with so much vengeance and hatred in his heart. Before founding the Red Lanterns and taking on the quest to spread vengeance on those who victimize the innocent across the universe, Atrocitus was known as Atros: a loving family man and psychologist.

Things changed once the Guardian's robotic Manhunters' central programming were altered by Guardian Krona, leading them to commit genocide on Atrocitus' home planet.

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All were slaughtered except for Atrocitus, and a demonic terrorist cell group known as the Five Inversions. They felt the rage and hatred Atrocitus had in his heart for the Guardians/Manhunters, so they enlisted him to join them on their quest to battle them.

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Atrocitus fought along side the Five Inversions for eons, learning their abilities in the mystic arts.

Long story short, Atrocitus knew of a blood prpohecy that must be completed. He felt he was "the one." So, he captured Guardian Krone, sacrificed him and used his blood to create himself the first Red Lantern Ring with his shamanistic magic. Following that, he slaughtered the Five Inversions, using their blood to create the Red Lantern Battery.

And...Atrocitus the Red Lantern is born!

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Thesis

Moving forward, I hope to present the following reasons in this CAV as to what Atrocitus should and would beat Terrax in our battle:

  • Superior Physical Stats (speed, strength, durability, etc.)
  • Superior Energy or Range Attacks
  • Superior Tactical Mind
  • Versatility
  • Overall No-Nonsense Brutality

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

@cosmicallyaware1 May the best man win!!

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#17 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nimamindtricks: sorry for the delay my man. Holidays and all, duties at work, football, etc.........anyway let me at least get an intro up here real quick.....

Presenting:............Terrax the Tamer, former Herald of Galactus!!

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Introduction...

Who are we talking about here? Terrax. A relatively unknown herald of the almighty Galactus, whom has recently been brought back into the spotlight in the pages of New Avengers. First fighting the Illuminati.....an alternate reality version of Terrax, calling himself "The Enlightened", now a part of the mighty Thanos cabal.

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A older excerpt from The Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe detailing Galactus's Heralds for reference purposes.

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Powers and Abilities!

Do to the new rules and restrictions on scan usage, I will save the majority for the debate itself. Especially considering that Terrax really doesn't have a ton of showings, and I will need every pic I have to illustrate my points here.

Let me give a breakdown and synopsis of Terrax unique powerset.

first off, let me start off with what fuels Terrax in the first place: The Power Cosmic..

The Power Cosmic is a limitless power that can allow the user to do many things such as resurrect the dead, manipulate the user’s size and mass, teleportation, telepathy, creation of force fields, travel through time, superhuman strength, immortality and much more. The Power Cosmic can be used in a powerful blast or in small doses to change the color of a plant. The Power Cosmic can also be infused into the human soul giving them a portion of the Powers of the Universe.

The greatest and most powerful wielder (and perhaps source) of the Power Cosmic would be Galactus, the Devourer of Worlds. He is rumored to be able to teleport entire galaxies throughout time and space, re-shape worlds that have been destroyed in every detail, and even create life. Galactus can and often does bestow a small fraction of the Power Cosmic to his Heralds, most notoriously the Silver Surfer. Other popular Heralds include: Nova (Frankie), Firelord, Air Walker, Red Shift, Stardust, the Fallen One, and even Johnny Storm (Human Torch) for a brief time.

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Galactus however can give and take away the Power Cosmic at will, and there has even been an instance of The Power Cosmic stolen from Galactus by a being known as Michael Korvac. It is also very important to point out that are varying levels of the Power Cosmic, and not all wielders have the same level of power. Yet even the lowest wielder is significant in Power.

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image = Korvac

With the Power Cosmic comes a cosmic sense. It allows anyone imbued with the power to almost be one with processes of the universe. The Silver Surfer once described it as being able to "hear the cosmic static of the universe's electromagnetic fields and detect the pain of dying stars or the rhapsody of planets aborning". This has been referred to as having "Cosmic Awareness", and there have been others apart from those bestowed by Galactus to demonstrate this ability albeit very few.

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The Power Cosmic is said to originate from the Astral Plane. Now that we have covered Terrax's power source, let's look at some of the varied ways he utilizes it:

  • Energy Projection: blasts and the such
  • Energy Absorption: ahhhhh, the axe. we'll get into that in a bit......
  • Force Fields
  • Strength Augmentation: hovers in the 80 - 100 tonner range.
  • Vast Durability:Terrax's body is composed of a flexible, rock-like material that is much harder and more resistant to physical injury than the bodily tissues of normal human beings. Terrax's body can withstand exposure to temperature extremes from 50 degrees above absolute zero to the interior of a small sun and the pressure up to 100 Earth atmospheres. His body is also capable of withstanding powerful energy blasts and concussive force up to a fall at terminal velocity from the limit of Earth's exosphere. Terrax's body is also designed to fully withstand the rigors of travel through deep space
  • Matter Manipulation
  • Telepathy
  • Elemental properties: such as seismic manipulation, geomorphic capabilities, tectonic control. Mostly "Earth" based control (not so much in lieu of wind, rain, water, etc...) Terrax's psionic ability to manipulate the molecules of rock and earth has been augmented by Galactus's transformation at least a hundredfold. Terrax can move planetary masses up to 100 miles in diameter. He can move asteroids of 10 miles in diameter at speeds of up to thousands of miles per hour. He can control the direction of a swarm of meteors within 100 miles of his person. Through concentration, he can affect a small piece of matter 1000 miles away from him. Standing on a planetary surface, he can affect tectonic plates sufficiently to cause earthquakes and create chasms in the surface thousands of feet deep or wide. Deploying his powers to the maximum extent, he can separate a landmass the size of Manhattan Island and levitate it miles off the Earth's surface. On worlds with lesser gravities, he can lift even greater masses.

And then there's the Axe:

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Terrax wielded a cosmic axe which had several powers of its own. It was capable of emanating waves of destructive force sufficiently powerful to rent a tear in Galactus's own ship. It could also project highly impervious force shields. Terrax's axe has shown a significant amount of power to destroy a planet with one blow. Since it operated independently of rock and earth, the axe augmented the scope of Terrax's power.

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and with that:

In Conclusion:

you have presented why your character will win this encounter already. Allow me to do the same:

  • Physical statistics are of relative comparison level and incredibly close. Will make a glorious battle.
  • Your Energy Projection will not mean anything to a Herald of Galactus. Especially one that can absorb.
  • Terrax was a warlord and ruler on his homeworld. So I would say that the "tactical advantage" in lieu of mindset may be his....
  • Versatility? Indeed. I would say that Terrax has this covered easily. Power Cosmic and all.....
  • Overall No Nonsense Brutality. Once again, Terrax has this covered. He is ruthless and the epitome of a villain. Will cover that more in detail later.......
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#18 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by johnfrank120 (6702 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag me for votes please.

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#20 Posted by Killerwasp (17209 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1 - alright! I'm here. Sorry for the delay. I was super busy. Let's get this show on the road.

Atrocitus

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Physicals (without ring/pre ring)

Unlike most Lanterns in the DCU, Atrocitus is one of the few who can be labeled a legitimate physical powerhouse. He does not have to depend on solely his ring to dish out and take major damage.

Manhunter Genocide

As mentioned previously, Atrocitus was the sole survivor of the Manhunter genocide on his home planet in Sector 666. He fought and defeated many Manhunters before he was discovered by the Five Inversions. This proves that Atrocitus is naturally built for intense physical combat, survival skills, and immense willpower.

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Strength

Atrocitus' raw power and ferocity should definitely be enough to handle Terrax in a pure fight.

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These are kind of out of order, and they are basically different versions of the same story from separate books.

From left to right (1 - 3)

  1. As you can see Atrocitus is being restrained by steel cuffs, which are also supported by Abin Sur's energy constructs.
  2. Atrocitus tearing through the cage and steel door separating him and Abin Sur. This lead to a crash landing on Earth, killing Abin Sur. Atrocitus survived unscathed.
  3. Atrocitus easily destroying Abin Sur's energy constructs.

versus Hal Jordan + Sinestro

Atrocitus' strength, endurance, and ferocity will be a major obstacle that I feel Terrax has no chance of overcoming.

One of the best examples of this is his fight 2-on-1 fight against Hal Jordan and Sinestro.

I had to do some creative cropping to abide by the new rules, nevertheless, here it goes.

From left to right (1 - 4):

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  1. Atrocitus easily snapping apart Sinestro's chain constructs
  2. Atrocitus getting right up after being pounded on by a construct giant, catching Hal's fighter jet construct, then smacking Hal away.
  3. Sinestro at the end of the last scan tries to restrain Atrocitus but Atrocitus just breaks free and starts smashing him with a bulldozer
  4. Hal sends a fighter jet construct flying into Atrrocitus, causing a large exposion.
  5. Atrocitus gets right up after this hit and immediately gets pounded on by an enraged Sinestro. Finally, Atrocitus is incapacitated.

Pretty impressive that it took that much effort from two Green Lanterns to finally get put down. Keep in mind, Sinestro was arguably the greatest Green Lantern at the time.

Conclusion

This is just a brief example of what Atrocitus' raw power is capable of without his Red Lantern Ring and the powers that come with it. I'll go over what else Atrocitus is capable later on. (P.S. the first couple scans are in Russian. I'll try and make sure the rest are not).

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#24 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nimamindtricks: glad you're back my man. Nice reply, allow me to continue............

The force of nature that is...... Terrax the Tamer!!

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Unlike most Lanterns in the DCU, Atrocitus is one of the few who can be labeled a legitimate physical powerhouse. He does not have to depend on solely his ring to dish out and take major damage

Atrocitus' raw power and ferocity should definitely be enough to handle Terrax in a pure fight

Atrocitus' strength, endurance, and ferocity will be a major obstacle that I feel Terrax has no chance of overcoming

Fair enough. There is no doubt that Atrocitus is a physical beast. Against any other opponent that would definitely set him apart. However he is facing a former Herald of Galactus that is imbibed with the mighty Power Cosmic. Other abilities aside, let's talk about Terrax's purely physical statistic real quick...

Physicals!

Well, I will say that Terrax is quite formidable indeed physically. Initially he started off as a rough 75-80 tonner. I'm interested to see what Atrocitus's base strength is, and I understand that the DCU's powerscaling (especially in strength) is a bit different. Not sure what I would peg him at. Regardless, I would say that the two are relatively close......yet I put Terrax above him. Another interesting tid bit regarding Terrax............he can use the Power Cosmic to amp his strength as needed (as in theory.....most Heralds of Galactus can, yet not all choose to do so).

Raw Strength!

In regards to strength, let's look at a notable encounter that Terrrax had. It was one of many against the Fantastic Four, and this I feel was quite possibly his greatest showing from Fantastic Four 242 (which I will probably site many more times as it has many great feats for Terrax in it).

Terrax has a fantastic example fighting Ben Grimm....the ever popular Thing. In this, Terrax showcases his extraordinary strength levels, especially in striking power.....

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Now it's important to note here that Thing comments (in thought) that he rarely has he felt such a blow. So that would put the strength of this in a category with the Hulk, Thor, etc.......and it looked like Terrax was putting little effort into this. The force was strong enough to send Be through at least 8 stories of the Baxter building, and considering how Reed had fortified the building at the time, that is substantial. Now I will say that Ben at this point was still growing in his strength and durability levels, so that is taken into consideration.....

the encounter has many other points, but I want to showcase them under my next section (durability) so we will come back to FF 242 in a bit.

next example for strength and striking power.

versus the Silver Surfer.....

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now Terrax and the Surfer have had encounters multiple times, and Norrin has typically gotten the better of Terrax. What is relevant in their showings, is the ability Terrax has had over Norrin physically. Especially considering this:

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a punch from She Hulk didn't even slightly faze Surfer.

time and time again. Terrax has caused Norrin pause with his blows, and in the Herald Ordeal storyline, it took the combined might of multiple Heralds to bring Terrax down. Multiple Heralds. That speaks volumes on his Physical stats....

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that's the combined might of Surfer, Firelord, Nova (frankie), and Airwalker robot. Now aside from the Surfer they may not be the most impressive Heralds, but they are Heralds nonetheless......

now while we are on the subject of Heralds, let's look at an example of another....arguably more powerful Herald...

versus Morg....

now Morg was a Herald whom was very similar to Terrax. He was ruthless, bloodthirsty, and favored using an axe as his primary weapon. a little back history on Morg.....

On his home planet, Morg served in an army of rebels fighting against their Queen. He always sought to serve the most powerful. His rebellion was defeated by the sheer numbers of the queen's army. He was taken prisoner and he and the other survivors were brought before the queen, who gave them one last chance to serve her. Since Morg was drawn to the powerful, he turned on his allies and joined the side of the queen. He was then given a position as executioner, and his first duty was to execute his former comrades, which he did with no remorse.

His planet was then approached by Galactus, Devourer of Worlds. In the presence of the awesome being, Morg showed no fear; instead exhibiting a respectful but unbowed defiance. Impressed with Morg's demeanor and wary after losing several heralds to attacks of conscience, Galactus decided to recruit this brutal and remorseless specimen as his latest herald.

Morg gladly accepted the task of being Galactus' herald, and was given the Power Cosmic, making him powerful enough to rival theSilver Surfer, a status Galactus has not allowed his other heralds. As a weapon, Morg wields a double-edged battle axe which he previously used in his executioner duties. Morg served as a herald of Galactus after Galactus' previous herald, Nova, was expelled for sparing suitable but inhabited planets from his hunger.

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now, Morg was powerful enough as it was but then Morg battled and easily defeated the Surfer, leaving him unconscious. The Surfer knew he needed assistance and sought out Firelord. Although they had never been the best of friends, Firelord agreed to help stop this unworthy herald.

Seeking reinforcements, Silver Surfer and Firelord recruited the rest of Galactus' former heralds: Nova,Terrax and Air-Walker, whom they had to unearth from his grave and reassemble. During this time, Morg discovered a powerful pool akin to the Fountain of Youth on a planet to which he had lead Galactus. The pool enhanced Morg's powers exponentially before he returned to his master and the planet was destroyed. Despite his amped power levels, Terrax battled the amped Herald, and had significant showings against him physically......

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The assembled heralds confronted Morg together and were easily defeated. In the battle, Air-Walker was severely damaged again and Morg killed Nova by blasting her in the back when he was thought to have been beaten. Galactus was not pleased with this, so he removed the power cosmic that he had imbued in Morg, leaving him with only the power he'd gained from the pool he'd discovered. In his weakened state, he was still able to defend himself. Although the Silver Surfer tried to stop Terrax, Morg was killed by Terrax in the end.

In Conclusion.....

I think I have presented a fair argument in the realm of Strength. Next installment will deal with Durability, and can move forward from there. I just wanted to get a post up in between other matches. How about you put up a Durability section post next as well? and then we both can put up an Energy Projection one and so forth..

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#25 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2: Counters and More!

Ah good post @cosmicallyaware1, but there are some counters I would like to make.

Silver Surfer counter

Quite honestly, beating able to punch Silver Surfer is not that impressive. When you are a large brick empowered by the power cosmic, I expect no less.

As we all know, Silver Surfer's physicals - may it be strength or durability - as always been inconsistent over the years. She-Hulk, a legit 70-80 tonner with awesome fighting prowess, throwing a direct punch at SS and hurting her hand in the process is a little iffy to me for 2 reasons:

  1. She-Hulk has a fairly consistent history over the years of knocking back or hurting physically imposing and highly durable opponents. For example:
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  • First scan on the far left: She-Hulk knocks Thor back through a ship with one punch.
  • Middle scan: She-Hulk's punches knocking back and making Red Hulk bleed.
  • Third scan on the far right: She-Hulk making World War Hulk bleed with one punch.

The idea that She-Hulk's punch did nothing to Silver Surfer, and in fact, hurt her in the process, is a little hard to believe considering he's been hurt or knocked around by physical attacks a lot over the years.

2. Silver Surfer has been knocked around by opponents - some bricks - such as Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Hulk, and even the Rhino. The idea that She-Hulk would do as much damage as throwing a cotton ball at him is a little ridiculous.

If Terrax was smashing and smacking around characters with consist durability - unlike Silver Surfer or the infamous brick punching bag, Ben Grimm/Thing, then maybe Atrocitus would have something to worry about.

Morg counter

Let's look at what you said regarding Terrax's fight with Morg:

The assembled heralds confronted Morg together and were easily defeated. In the battle, Air-Walker was severely damaged again and Morg killed Nova by blasting her in the back when he was thought to have been beaten. Galactus was not pleased with this, so he removed the power cosmic that he had imbued in Morg, leaving him with only the power he'd gained from the pool he'd discovered. In his weakened state, he was still able to defend himself. Although the Silver Surfer tried to stop Terrax, Morg was killed by Terrax in the end.

Quite honestly, I do not see how this is an impressive physical feat for 3 reasons:

  1. As you note, Morg was going up against severalother Galactus' Heralds at the same time in this fight. He took blasts from Firelord, Silver Surfer, and so on. Yeah, sure Terrax delivered the deathblow, but after what? That's like saying you knocked out a big bully after you and a few of your friends jumped him.
  2. Morg was stripped of his Power Cosmic power during that fight, as you mentioned. We have no idea what Morg's stats are with the amp from taking a dip in the mystical power when his Power Cosmic is not there. In other words, we have no way to judge the validity and levels that pool amps someone at base levels like we do many other devices such as Thor's "Belt of Strength" or Bane's Venom.
  3. You forgot to mention what happened after Morg was resurrected: It is well-documented that at base levels (no additional amps) Morg is much more impressive physically than Terrax. In Silver Surfer #80, as shown in the scan below, Terrax and Morg went toe-to-toe in a straight up fight. Morg beat the snot out of Terrax and was about to kill him before being interrupted by some robots. I guess Terrax needed his Herald brothers, huh? Let's keep in mind Morg was trying to get his Cosmic Axe back, hence why Terrax has possession of it, and why Morg is unarmed.
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In other words, none of Terrax's offensive physical feats presented by you are too impressive or go without investigating the context.

Let's see how Atrocitus' would respond to your physical attacks in this next section.

Atrocitus: Durability & Speed

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Durability

As shown in my first post, Atrocitus is one tough son of a b#tch! Even before having his Red Power Ring, he was taking blow after blow from Sinestro and Hal, and kept on coming. That's some impressive durability. Let's see what else Atrocitus has tanked since then.

From left to right (1 - 6)

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1 - 2. Atrocitus sharing at a warship, firing a hail of photon blasts and high-explosives. Atrocitus takes the hit from the photon blasts and high-explosives, shakes it off, and proceeds to charge at the ship, tearing off the steel wall.

3 - 4 . Atrocitus taking a full solar powered punch from Apollo, who is basically "Superman light," and gets right back up.

5. I will cover this fight more later, but here is Atrocitus taking the combined attacks of Stormwatch. As you can see he is taking both physical attacks from Apollo and Midnighter, as well as Martian Manhunter's heat vision. Keep in mind: In a couple earlier issues, Atrocitus had encounter his thought to be dead creation, Abysmus, prior to this fight. In that encounter, Atrocitus discovered Abysmus had destroyed the Red Lantern Power Battery. Because the power battery was destroyed, Atrocitus was weakened, as was the speed of his healing factor. Here is Atrocitus explaining the same:

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As we can see here, despite being weakened because of the destruction of the power battery, Atrocitus was still able to dislodge and heal from a large stake stabbing him through the chest.

In regards to scan #5 above - this means Atrocitus fought Stormwatch at the beginning of their battle at an overall weaker state. Despite this, he was still able to take major hits. It was not until later on in the fight did Atrocitus begin to increase in power due to the fact he was beginning to harness his inner rage, which gave him a little boost. He later "masters" this ability after his encounter with Volthoom, which will be discussed later. I will also cover more of what went on in Atrocitus impressive fight against Stormwatch later.

6. [From scans posted above under durability] Hal Joran smashing a train construct onto Atrocitus, and Atrocitus gets back up like nothing happened in the very next panel.

I think I have shown sufficient evidence thus far of how Atrocitus could tangle with Terrax and take anything Terrax dishes at him, even at a weakened state.

Let's move onto...

Speed

Not surprisingly, like most lanterns, Atrocitus is very fast. Unlike most Lanterns, who typically depend on constructs or ring blasts, Atrocitus uses that speed to charge at his opponents offensively on a number of occasions (as seen in posts above where he charges into ships). Atrocitus recently proved that he can also teleport across space almost instantly.

From left to right (1 - 5)

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  1. Flies from Ysmault, the Red Lantern base planet, to a totally different Sector in seconds - before a blinding ritual can be completed on an innocent girl.
  2. From there, he flies to earth in seconds, crash landing at a high velocity like nothing.
  3. In an different story arc, he flies to a planet at such a high speed that he is completely undetected - grabbing a savage warriors, who had just who had just killed some innocent civilians, by surprise.
  4. Teleports instantly across space. Supergirl even remarked that he disappeared "in a flash." Pretty impressive considering he teleported before a Kruptonian and a veteran Lantern could even react, standing mere feet from them.
  5. Catches up to and tags Skallox, who was trying to escape and had a head start. Atrocitus barrels through cliffs/mountains and his momentum isn't swayed whatsoever.

Conclusion

I believe I have shown sufficient evidence that Atrocitus is more than capable of dishing out and taking anything thrown at him - even while weakened. Terrax will have a hard time contending with someone a lot more ferocious, likely more durable, and incredibly fast who shows absolutely no mercy whatsoever. Yeah, Terrax has never dealt with anyone as bloodthirsty yet focused as Atrocitus. The fun part? It gets worse for Terrax. This is just the beginning of what Atrocitus can and would to Terrax.

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#26 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

looking good...

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#27 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@masterkungfu: thank you!

@cosmicallyaware1 *beats my chest like king kong* I'm comin' for ya!!

hey, hey no favoritism there Mr.Kung Fu guy.......

Nima: ahhhhhhh, bravado. we'll see about that now, keep it comin mate. I'm prepared. There's much yet to be sated and illustrated here. I'll have my reply up tonight hopefully....

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#31 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: no favoritism just commenting on how the outline of the CaV looks

cheers to you too and good luck

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#33 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nimamindtricks: bro, I wanna put somethin up. but I have lots to say, so I'll break it up. sorry.

@nimamindtricks: ok my man. I'm back! Round 3!

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First up: Counters...

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In regards to Silver Surfer:

Quite honestly, beating able to punch Silver Surfer is not that impressive. When you are a large brick empowered by the power cosmic, I expect no less.

As we all know, Silver Surfer's physicals - may it be strength or durability - as always been inconsistent over the years. She-Hulk, a legit 70-80 tonner with awesome fighting prowess, throwing a direct punch at SS and hurting her hand in the process is a little iffy to me for 2 reasons

Well, when you put it that way then no. Surfer's physicals have varied throughout the years, and everybody has their lowball jobbing moments.....but overall I would say that the Surfer possesses some high durability levels. To consistently have shown laying into someone physically and give them pause is a totally respectable thing...which Terrax has done.

Regardless of how the showing with Jen and Surfer is interpreted is irrelevant...........it simply stands as testament to Surfer's durability. He can take point blank shots to the jaw and shrug them off. It's pretty solid IMO, call it what you will.

The idea that She-Hulk's punch did nothing to Silver Surfer, and in fact, hurt her in the process, is a little hard to believe considering he's been hurt or knocked around by physical attacks a lot over the years.

meh....it is what it is. It validates Terrax's striking power nonetheless.

If Terrax was smashing and smacking around characters with consist durability - unlike Silver Surfer or the infamous brick punching bag, Ben Grimm/Thing, then maybeAtrocitus would have something to worry about

The key thing to realize here is the number of showings that Terrax has had in relation to feats. The few opponents he has engaged in physically have been very relevant. He simply has not engaged in may brawl/slugfests with many individuals. But those times he has....are substantial. Some others he has engaged physically include: random Spaceknights (Galadorian), Namorita, and Airwalker construct (Herald).

And the point here is not necessarily for Atrocitus to "worry" about Terrax physically, the whole argument is to strike a relative comparison point. Atrocitus may very well be stronger, but Terrax is no slouch and not too far behind.

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In regards to Morg:

Quite honestly, I do not see how this is an impressive physical feat for 3 reasons:

As you note, Morg was going up against severalother Galactus' Heralds at the same time in this fight. He took blasts from Firelord, Silver Surfer, and so on. Yeah, sure Terrax delivered the deathblow, but after what? That's like saying you knocked out a big bully after you and a few of your friends jumped him.

Morg was stripped of his Power Cosmic power during that fight, as you mentioned. We have no idea what Morg's stats are with the amp from taking a dip in the mystical power when his Power Cosmic is not there. In other words, we have no way to judge the validity and levels that pool amps someone at base levels like we do many other devices such as Thor's "Belt of Strength" or Bane's Venom.

You forgot to mention what happened after Morg was resurrected: It is well-documented that at base levels (no additional amps) Morg is much more impressive physically than Terrax. In Silver Surfer #80, as shown in the scan below, Terrax and Morg went toe-to-toe in a straight up fight. Morg beat the snot out of Terrax and was about to kill him before being interrupted by some robots. I guess Terrax needed his Herald brothers, huh? Let's keep in mind Morg was trying to get his Cosmic Axe back, hence why Terrax has possession of it, and why Morg is unarmed

I simply haved used it as a point of interest against a cosmically charged powerhouse. Yeah, Morg took on all the heralds and even got the better of Terrax. But the main thing to focus on.......despite his elevated strength and durability, Terrax was able to get some good shots in. I like your analogy of the bully KO, nice. Still, a KO is a KO. Here's an analogy in return: if someone weakens a boulder with some Jackhammer strikes....it still depends on the strength of the hammer swing to break it completely, no?

As far as the 'well of life' amp............after being amped Morg was able to wipe the floor with 5 heralds, the Surfer included. That is unheard of. So that alone has to speak volumes of the potency of the power it was packing.

Ah, I didn't forget to mention. You want me to purposely illustrate a showing where my character gets smacked down? for what? The point I wanted to make originally....and by a more powerful opponent mind you.....was that he had fair strength and striking power. nothing more, nothing less..

and there's another time that Terrax has been vastly overpowered physically....when he faced Sentry. Sentry smacked him down, and stopped his axe strike with one hand. I never eluded that Terrax was at the upper echelon of the strength tier. However, I did illustrate that he can hang with beings in the class 100 range....which is where is put Atro slightly below. So I'm gonna close the book on that chapter.....

In other words, none of Terrax's offensive physical feats presented by you are too impressive or go without investigating the context

Well, few things here mate. Terrax isn't solely a physical character, he's not a typical "slugfest" typa guy.....but he can hang with the best of them. And as far as investigating context.....I feel that I have been very up front with contextual information. Any questions just ask...I have no desire to mislead of any sort, there's no need.

Moving along / Continuing the education....

As shown in my first post, Atrocitus is one tough son of a b#tch! Even before having his Red Power Ring, he was taking blow after blow from Sinestro and Hal, and kept on coming. That's some impressive durability

I will not deny that Atrocitus is one tough customer. He would make a great Herald!! Actually I (and others on the vine) compare most leaders of the Emotional Spectrum / Lantern "heads" (specifically Atrocitus, Larfleeze) to "Herald level" beings (most notably from Galactus, but there are a couple stragglers) in the Marvel Universe.

Now, on another note......Terrax had some impressive abilities himself before he was amped by Galan. Keep in mind however the times they were made. Terrax was created in the late 1970's (Fantastic Four 211, October 1979 to be exact) and Atrocitus was debuted nearly 30 years later (29 to be exact). This plays a big difference in the types of feats, reputability to reality (hehe, a joke in comics right?), and impact (especially artwork. If panels/scenes from then were drawn now? entirely different effect, guaranteed)

Regardless, let's tackle the next category bracket.....

Durability and Speed arguments / comparisons

you have posted some decent showings, in both categories. allow me to do the same.

Durability

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

what these scans show/illustrate:

1) standing up to a "feedback" type of attack from Thanos. It's unclear exactly how much output he is tanking but considering Thanos's capacity, it has to be in the realm of substantial. Now this is a crossover event, so the contextualization can be argued as it's weight in "cannon", yet I feel that it's a fair showing nonetheless.

2) being pucnced through a multitude of skyscraper buildings in NYC by 'ol Ben Grimm. At least a city block's worth. Got right back up after.

3) Thrown to a planet's surface from Space, and well away from the confines of simple orbit by Surfer. I guess to a Herald, entry through a planet's atmosphere isn't really a big deal, yet it is a decent showing of durability levels regardless.

4) Easily shrugs off the upper capacity limit of Human Torch's offensive attack (Nova level blast) like a joke. Terrax even states he has the power to soar through suns, and that's some serious durability that can take that kind of heat. Red Lantern energy output should be no problem whatsoever.

5) This one is the real deal. Takes punishment from Tyrant. If you are not aware who Tyrant is....he's a being that is Galactus's realm. Now right after this Terrax took a few steps and dropped, but the mere fact that he wasn't killed on the spot of vaporized speaks volumes.

and let's not forget this in the realm of durability:

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surfers blasts. He tanks them with the best of them. Yes, here he is shown displaying discomfort/pain. Yet he takes it like others take simple punches and gets right back up. Considering the foes that Surfer has felled with his blasting capacity, I would say that's very respectable indeed.

As we can see here, despite being weakened because of the destruction of the power battery, Atrocitus was still able to dislodge and heal from a large stake stabbing him through the chest

That is impressive indeed. It's relevant to say that Terrax has an edge in a very peculiar talent. He has survived his body being destroyed completely previously and endured as a type of consciousness. That conciousness was able to be 'resurrected' in another body in New Warriors (Volume 1) issues 16/17 respectively. So does that make him immortal and unable to be killed? Maybe. But in comparison to a large stake through the chest.....reconstituting your being is quite the 'one up'.

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I think I have shown sufficient evidence thus far of how Atrocitus could tangle with Terrax and take anything Terrax dishes at him, even at a weakened state.

maybe. Not too sure though. Welcome to the Counter Durability train. Think Terrax has ya severely outclassed here. And the big kicker is.....I haven't even really gotten into what Terrax can dish out. Sure, punches and stuff. Oh, but there's sooooo much more. We'll get to that though. Patience. First things first.....

Speed

Not surprisingly, like most lanterns, Atrocitus is very fast. Unlike most Lanterns, who typically depend on constructs or ring blasts, Atrocitus uses that speed to charge at his opponents offensively on a number of occasions (as seen in posts above where he charges into ships). Atrocitus recently proved that he can also teleport across space almost instantly

Fast is cool. So are Heralds. Tell me one Herald who isn't FTL (Faster than Light)...in travel speed? ahhhhh, but what about reactionary speed and the ilk? Once again....we'll get to that.

anyway.................Terrax is traditionally shown traveling ontop of a hunk of rock suck as a meteor or 'boulder type' piece of rock that he controls psionically.

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He has not shown flight or speed any other way and it is speculation if he can travel airborne in any other fashion (but it is presumed so, as all previous Heralds have demonstrated flight capabilities)

is it really a consideration to argue speed factors? Terrax is capable to enter warp-space and negotiate through it in order to cover great spatial distances just like all of Galactus' heralds. Traversing through the normal universe, he is able to attain 75% the speed of light, or roughly 139,500 miles per second as his normal flight speed. Now we know the difference between Travel and Reactionary Speed is the real important thing. Terrax has never really shown any significant reactionary feats. However there is one significant element.

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When he uses his weapon of choice......his cosmically empowered axe.....on more than one occasion it has been stated that he strikes at the speed of light. Now he has not demonstrated this ability in a defensive combat reactionary sense, but it is clear that when he strikes offensively it is at light speeds. Can Atro defend against attacks at that speed? has he demonstrated that capacity previously? he has not to my knowledge, please inform me otherwise.

speed to travel across universes? Terrax clearly displays that capacity here, as is typical for a Herald of Galactus.

now I will cover some fresh concepts in next posts.

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#34 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: how dareyou! I will reply in a day or two.

lol, I will have the second part of my post up tonight. Had to break it up.....sometimes I make these massive posts and they take forever to finish. Sometimes I will be working on them for like over 3 hours.....and my brain turns to mush lmao

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#36 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nimamindtricks: sorry man, got caught up with holiday stuff. Putting the finishing touches on the 2nd part of response, will have it done and up later tonight after I get home. If you see this reply, so I'll be able to. otherwise I'll have to delete this post to do it.

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#37 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: Hey brother, I'm getting ZERO of my notifications in all 3 of my CAVs (including this one). When you need my attention just send a PM. Also, if you want to edit or delete your last response to combine it with your additions, feel free. It's up to you.

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#38 Posted by TheNewBlueBeetle007 (4758 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#39 Edited by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio

@nimamindtricks:

When you need my attention just send a PM. Also, if you want to edit or delete your last response to combine it with your additions, feel free. It's up to you

sent you PM, and edited some info into last post. Here's part 1 of the next installment, will have the other up tomorrow night at the latest

New Developments...

believe I have shown sufficient evidence that Atrocitus is more than capable of dishing out and taking anything thrown at him - even while weakened. Terrax will have a hard time contending with someone a lot more ferocious, likely more durable, and incredibly fast who shows absolutely no mercy whatsoever. Yeah, Terrax has never dealt with anyone as bloodthirsty yet focused as Atrocitus. The fun part? It gets worse for Terrax. This is just the beginning of what Atrocitus can and would to Terrax.

Really? we can cover that........

New Development / Part 1: Elemental Abilities

Terrax, even before the Galactus Power Cosmic upgrade....had abilities as a Geomorph. A being that can manipulate the planetary structure such as rock in certain capacities. With the addition of the Power Cosmic that was taken to an entirely new level.

Terrax's psionic ability to manipulate the molecules of rock and earth has been augmented by Galactus's transformation at least a hundredfold. Terrax can move planetary masses up to 100 miles in diameter. He can move asteroids of 10 miles in diameter at speeds of up to thousands of miles per hour. He can control the direction of a swarm of meteors within 100 miles of his person. Through concentration, he can affect a small piece of matter 1000 miles away from him. The farther the distance, however, the less mass he is able to affect. Standing on a planetary surface, he can affect tectonic plates sufficiently to cause earthquakes and create chasms in the surface thousands of feet deep or wide. Deploying his powers to the maximum extent, he can separate a landmass the size of Manhattan Island and levitate it miles off the Earth's surface. On worlds with lesser gravities, he can lift even greater masses.

haha, I quoted myself.....anyway. He can control masses on foreign worlds alike, it matters not as he has done so on numerous worlds. Tell me............how would Atro like to be slammed with asteroids and meteors traveling thousands of miles per hour? Oh, right....he's durable. Regardless, it should give him pause.

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Terrax may also choose to employ a tactic such as dumping a mountain on Atro or slamming him with a size of rock the weight and density of Manhattan....

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It is very interesting indeed to see how Atro's Durability or Red Lantern Energy will stand up to something such as this. In all actuality it probably wouldn't kill him. But it may on the other hand. what it can do is.....give Terrax just another ability that will ultimately prove why he is so much more versatile that the Brick with a ring.

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Despite being able to maneuver large land mass size objects and assail with Meteors, there is more depth to Terrax's ability here. He can manipulate earth type mass in any way he can conceive.....he just normally thinks in grand scale.

He can shove even the smallest amounts down Atro's mouth, filling him from the inside until he literally burst from the seams. Now that's something that probably hasn't been done to Atro previously

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all in all, interesting indeed. Quite the versatility to compensate for.

And that's not even the more impressive aspect. Terrax will use these abilities in conjunction with his greatest asset...........

New Development / Part 2 :The Axe

Now this is really the icing on the cake to be honest. I am well aware of Atro's capabilities, yet there is nothing to say that he will be able to defend against Terrax's greatest asset...... The Axe.

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The Axe has been stated to have the power to "cleave the Cosmic Stratum" which essentially means the power to cut layers of the cosmos. So what does that mean? well, it's open to interpretation, as it never has been clearly defined. What it does insinuate is that Terrax's axe has the ability to cut through just about anything, including the fabric that makes up the universe in a physical sense (similarly to the Persuader from DC's The Fatal Five's Atomic Axe).

Terrax's axe has been shown to have possibly greater feats that Terrax himself, and is quite formidable. It has shown to have energy absorbing feats, and/or neutralizing capabilities with energy projection (which is bad for Atro)

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Terrax'x axe has even proven to easily cleave through Galactus's own sophisticated technology in regards to his ship's hull

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It's relevant to point out in the instance with Galactus's ship that when Terrax swung his axe (and this has been shown in other instances) that a long ranged wave of force accompanies the blow. So it's not only a physical attack by the weapon itself, but an energy projection attack that is capable of rendering through just about anything. and as depicted in the scan example...by a great distance. Now in regards to the "cosmic stratum"....Atro's energy from the Red Lantern is based off of the Emotional Spectrum that composes the Universe itself correct? I would surmise that constitutes exactly the thing that Terrax'x axe is constructed to slice through effortlessly.

The axe has been shown to easily cleave through other Herald's Power Cosmic constructs such as the Surfer's board (which has only happened a few times before, and by beings of considerable power.....such as the Cancerverse version of Lord Mar-Vell)

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And the sheep power that the axe is capable of dishing out is unparalleled. It has shown to have the capacity to one shot cleave through an entire planet. Has Atro shown the ability to withstand a planet busting attack? Not that I'm aware of......

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In Conclusion...

I will do a conclusion argument next post. Let's let you respond to this first.

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#41 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (7308 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

@cosmicallyaware1: I didn't even know you posted again! I'll try and get something up soon.

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#43 Edited by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 3

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@cosmicallyaware1 Alright, I've been having scan and browser issues the last 2 days. Sorry for the delay. Let's go...

Elemental Counters

Terrax's earth and rock manipulation is really impressive. Terrax's ability to lift large land masses, boulders, etc. to be used as a weapon is a clear advantage no matter what the environment is, however, I do not feel it is enough to take out Atrocitus for 2 reasons:

  1. Durability.It's going to take a lot more than rocks and land masses to put down Atrocitus, whose durability increased with the addition of his ring thanks to the lantern "auto shields." I have already shown Atrocitus barreling through mountains/cliffs without losing an ounce of momentum in a chase after Skallox.
  2. Speed.Atrocitus speed and ability to teleport should keep him from being hit by large land masses and meteors alike.

To be fair, you did cite a more creative and deadly approach to Terrax using his elemental powers:

He can shove even the smallest amounts down Atro's mouth, filling him from the inside until he literally burst from the seams. Now that's something that probably hasn't been done to Atro previously

This type of attack would be super effective if it wasn't for the fact Atrocitus is one of the last opponents you want to try and shove anything down his throat/mouth. Why? This brings us to my next section.

Puke Power

Probably the most deadly and often used projectile attack of any Red Lantern, vomit plasma, which has been described as napalm and acid mixed together, it burns away at anything. Yes, anything,as noted here by Kilowog in Green Lantern Corps 34:

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As Kilowog mentions, it even burned the Sciencecell, which are nearly impenetrable prisons created by the Guardians to house some of the most dangerous villains across the universe, including powerhouses like Cyborg Superman, Superboy Prime, and Despero.

This napalm-acid puke is a staple attack from any Red Lantern, setting them apart from all other Lanterns in the spectrum. Can Terrax survive being repeatedly drenched in this unique and highly deadly attack?

Let's take a look at a few basic examples showing off how powerful the puking is. Multiple Green Lanterns and Sinestro Corps members killed in one hit (puke)!

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

There are literally dozens and dozens of examples showing similar results, where humans, meta-humans, and Lanterns are left incinerated and dead.

Here is Atrocitus dropping a very powerful opponent in the form of a Guardian with one puke blast, leaving him incapacitated. Despite moving at a high speeds, his puke doesn't lose velocity and is able to nail its target. Right after this, Atrocitus shoves his entire fist through the Guardians skull.

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These flames burn even in space, and the puke can break space-time. Here is an example of that, when we look back at Atrocitus encounter with Stormwatch!

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

This feat is remarkable for 3 reasons:

  1. Atrocitus' puke being able to break space-time.
  2. Weaking Stormwatch's shields enough to the point where he can punch through the actual ship. The Engineer even remarked at how unbelievable the damage output Atrocitus was dishing out, stating that "superbeings haven't worked out" how to get past their shields.
  3. And finally as a reminder: This was Atrocitus at a weakenedstate, after Abysmus had destroyed the Red Lantern Battery.

The puking is Atocitus' most common range/projectile attack. As far as I know, the napalm-acid substance spewed from red lanterns cannot be manipulated in the manner in which cosmic beings such as Terrax are accustomed to.

So as far as shoving rocks or pebbles down Atrocitus' mouth is concerned - it's not going to happen when his throat, mouth, and stomach are filled with an acid that can burn anything away.

Axe Counter

Ah yes, the infamous "planet busting" feat. This could arguably be Terrax's most infamous display of raw power, but I do not see it as a major threat for the following reasons:

  1. Unlike a fodder planet, the chances of Terrax landing a successful blow of that nature to a well-trained, experienced combatant such as Atrocitus are slim.
  2. Terrax can easily be disarmed physically, as he has been in the past, or be blinded by Atrocitus' vomit.

It should be noted that Terrax was left completely unscathed in after destroying that planet. I have yet to see Terrax be on par with Atrocitus durability wise. If Terrax can handle the explosive force of a planet being destroyed, why can't Atrocitus? Of course, we do not know the exact size of the planet which Terrax busted.

Amp Powers: Feed Off Rage

Yes Atrocitus and Terrax are both big brutes. Yes they are both warriors. Yes they are both ruthless. However, Atrocitus is the only one of the two who could further amp his powers during combat to immeasurable levels.

Atrocitus is capable of feeding off the rage of his opponents, to amp his overall stats. Terrax, arguably next to Morg, may be the most rage-filled Herald of Galactus. He serves Galactus but in his actions and speeches, he is clearly filled with plenty of anger and rage. Heck, prior to busting that planet - his own planet may I add - he rage-fully shouted the planet must be exterminated to prevent further tyranny. If thatis the you go about solving a problem, you are filled with rage my friend.

Here is Atrocitus displaying this ability when he summoned allthe Red Lanterns to come and kill him by lying to them and saying he a traitor:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

As you can see, he was able to solo and swat away all the Red Lanterns. After this display, he explained to them the purpose of his lie and told them he increased his power by feeding off their rage.

Conclusion

This section of my argument is critical because it finally put forth the most unique abilities Atrocitus has to offer: puke power and rage amping. Atrocitus' napalm-acid puke is so highly destructive and obviously very deadly. It's burned through the Guardians' Sciencells, obliterates Lanterns, one-shots Guardians, tears through space-time, and burned through Stormwatch's shields.

What happens to Terrax if he's hit in the face with this puke? If it doesn't take him out, he will certainly be blinded by it. How useful will a blinded Terrax be? This gives Atrocitus the opening to manhandle Terrax. Also, being blinded or burned by the vomit would certainly enrage Terrax, which will only further increase Atrocitus' overall power.

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#44 Posted by Marvel_is_Best (214 posts) - - Show Bio

tag for votes

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#45 Posted by ComicStooge (22062 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes

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#46 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

ehh id say Warlock beats both these guys at the same time... we'll see how this wraps up

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#48 Posted by jas0 (992 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd appreciate if you guys could tag me to vote.

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#49 Posted by NimaMindTricks (4684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by Parallax_Hal_Jordan (1411 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag for votes!