CaV: Angelina Jolie Maleficent (shroudofsorrow) Vs. Netflix Yennefer (geekryan)-Open for Votes!

For now, I am only going to post Yen's most relevant and combat-applicable feats.

Physicals

Although this battle is unlikely to take place at close range, I will demonstrate that Yennefer has the physicals to keep up with Maleficent.

After being struck by a bolt of lightning and sent flying, Yennefer is still conscious:

Gets stabbed in the stomach by an arrow:

And then fights off a second attack by the mind-controlled Sabrina before getting blown off a multi-story tower, and lands on her feet. Despite the stab wound, Yen continues to fight in the battle:

Yennefer uses a sword and a dagger to fight off and kill several warriors, alongside Geralt. These warriors are all trained, armed, and larger than her, but they are no match for Yen's superior sword-fighting skills:

Yen even manages to save Geralt and kill his attacker after he got sand tossed into his eyes:

This shows that Yen has similar combat speed to Geralt. How fast is Geralt? Fast enough to fight and defeat supernatural monsters on a daily basis, and his reaction speed is good enough to casually deflect a crossbow bolt (while perceiving it in slow motion).

Magic

Yennefer is capable of creating portals, and although it normally takes a few seconds to do so, we have seen her disappear quickly on two occasions:

Therefore, Yen can teleport herself out of harm's way.

Yennefer is also capable of telepathy. Although its combat applications are limited, it could still prove very useful by reading Maleficent's minds to anticipate her next move.

Yen monitors the approach of the enemy soldiers until they are in range of the defences' arrows. She is doing this via telepathy since she couldn't see into the forest:

As a novice, she also read the mind of Istredd, another sorcerer, in order to to see, hear, and taste what he was imagining. This proves she can read the minds of magical beings and not just random human soldiers.

Next up is Yennefer's most used skill: telekinesis.

Precise enough to control a creature's appendage to slice its own head off:

Unleashes a telekinetic blast against an assassin, who protects himself with some sort of black smoke shield. Yennefer then creates a portal to escape but gets sliced through the shoulder with a thrown knife as she disappears:

Tosses Geralt a few feet away with enough force to crack the wall, in order to stop him from interrupting the Djinn-summoning ritual. (NSFW)

Yen wakes up just in time to stop a huge fireball and then redirect it away. You can see in the second GIF how large the fireball's explosion is:

Kills two soldiers in quick succession with internal attacks. Note how this was right after Yen was stabbed in the stomach and tossed off a tower from an explosion:

And lastly, the "miscellaneous" spells...

Yen casts a slowing spell on the assassin's creature as it is mid-leap; she then creates a portal to escape:

Remember that earlier feat of Yen being struck by a lightning bolt? Well, she had also passively absorbed its energy and released it as a bolt of magic:

Casts an immobilization spell on a group of four dwarves, which stays in effect for several minutes:

Casts another immobilization spell on an enemy warrior while in combat:

Yen absorbs a large amount of fire in order to fuel her power:

With this feat and the one of her absorbing the lightning bolt, Yen can passively and actively absorb any lightning/fire/magic that is used on her or nearby, and she can either fire it back or use it to fuel her power.

Maleficent is an exceptionally powerful fairy. In fact, she is explicitly said to be the "strongest":

https://www.reddit.com/r/RTvideos/comments/9rd0ip/strongest_fairy/

Now, in this context "strongest" would seem to mean "most powerful", though it could be interpreted to mean strictly physical strength. Either way, that would mean she is stronger then the other inhabitants of the Moors, some of whom were able to do this:

https://gfycat.com/unfitmintybobwhite

And this:

https://gfycat.com/lonewealthyeasternglasslizard

And this:

https://gfycat.com/spryrawdolphin

I think by "strongest" it means most powerful, likely due to her magic. I don't think it meant physically strongest because although her strength is superhuman, it definitely isn't superior to the strength of the large tree creatures.

Even if one were to ignore or dismiss these showings, Maleficent has yet other feats that should prove she's stronger then Yennefer, who has few if any strength feats of note:

Smashing through stone and glass by flying through it:

https://gfycat.com/blaringfoolhardyiggypops

Bulldozes ordinary humans, all of whom are armored to some degree:

https://gfycat.com/feistyfluidbittern

One-shots armored men with the force of her blows:

https://gfycat.com/totalblankcollie

Unhorses King Henry despite him wearing a full set of plate mail:

https://gfycat.com/circularflawlessdwarfmongoose

Breaking chains:

https://gfycat.com/adventurousdelectabledromedary

Can do it with her wings as well:

https://gfycat.com/anchoredradiantarabianoryx

I think the point is made. Maleficent possess greater physical strength, and so should have an advantage in the event the fight gets up close and personal.

These are impressive, but it is extremely unlikely that this fight will result in CQC. Unless she is fighting soldiers, Yen doesn't tend to engage in CQC. However, if it does, I'm pretty confident Yen could take a few blows from Maleficent given her durability and pain tolerance.

But of course, as both women are adept spell casters, this will probably be mostly or entirely a magic fight. However, Maleficent is quite formidable here as well:

I agree with this!

Maleficent can fire out blasts of green-colored energy that one-shot guards, at least some of whom were wearing armor, as well as blast them back:

This is impressive energy projection, but since it is pure magic, it is possible that Yennefer could absorb it, block it with her TK, or slow/freeze the energy.

Uses similar green magic energy attacks later to do this:

and this:

This is powerful stuff, and it would be problematic for Yennefer to deal with, but there are two things to note:

1) At this point, Maleficent was pretty bloodlusted and would therefore not do this while in character.

2) She was doing this to take out multiple foes at once, so it is unlikely she would do this against one woman.

In Chlorokinesis, I believe the most we've seen from a Netflix Witcher magic user is Triss creating a sort of plant barrier at Sodden Hill, one that ultimately proved fairly ineffective against fire. Conversely, Maleficent could do this:

https://gfycat.com/gloriousmiserlycero

Not only is this far, far larger and grander then what Triss conjured, it also resisted all efforts by Stefan's men to bring it down with flaming catapult ammo, as opposed to Triss' barrier, which was penetrated with a single torch. It is also worth noting, that we never actually see Yen employ chlorokinesis herself. Even if we assume that she can, and that she is better at it then Tries (two ifs right there), there is nothing to suggest that she can conjure plant barriers anywhere close to those put forward by Maleficent.

One main problem with this: Maleficent did this at the forest's border. Our battle takes place on an open field with no forest or trees around. The plant life on the battlefield is also quite dead. Therefore, Maleficent would not be able to replicate this feat in our particular scenario.

As for telekinesis, Yennefer is admittedly quite proficient, but as can be seen from easily disposing of a troop of men in plate armor and destroying several meter-long stone walls, so is Maleficent:

https://gfycat.com/wateryjealousjaguarundi

This is impressive raw power, but it took a few seconds to become effective and Yen could always teleport/portal herself back to the ground.

https://gfycat.com/colorfulsophisticatedandeancondor

Also impressive, but not really combat-applicable since there are no nearby objects to manipulate. If you are implying she would lift Yennefer the same way, see above.

Also worth noting that Maleficent can levitate objects, which Yen has never shown the ability to do:

https://gfycat.com/constantnimblecockatoo

Not that she did not just lift Aurora, she telekinetically carried her back with her to the latter's cottage, which is not incredibly far from where they had been, but is not just a few steps away either. So Maleficent would have had to maintain the telekinetic hold for an extended period.

I don't really see how this is an advantage for Maleficent. Is she going to just slowly levitate Yennefer a couple feet above the ground...?

Conversely, Yennefer did not use levitation to stop Borch and his bodyguards from falling over the edge of a cliff. Now, in fairness to Yen, three bodies should weigh far more than one, and Yen was also in danger of falling herself if she attempted to maintain a telekinetic hold for that long, but nevertheless Maleficent does still have a levitation feat while Yen has yet to get one.

Again, not very important. It also isn't an anti-feat for Yen that she didn't save Borch and his bodyguards.

Maleficent also has a few ways to conceivably one-shot, such as magic to put someone to sleep:

https://gfycat.com/spicyneatbighorn

https://gfycat.com/hastyallguillemot

She never did this in combat though. Yen was able to put Geralt to sleep too, and she scales to Triss, who put four guards to sleep at once.

And, the ability to turn someone into a goat, which is how she disposes of Ingrith at the end of the film:

I'm not sure what counter Yen has to this. While the sleeping spell seemed to require that Maleficent not be too far away from her target, that doesn't appear to be the case with the transformation spell.

Transmutation magic isn't unknown to Yen. Tissaia had transmuted the three novice sorceresses into eels, and it is likely Yen was taught similar transmutation spells too during her decades of training and studies. This isn't a direct counter, but, Maleficent never did this during combat and is unlikely to do in this situation.

There is also an additional factor, which is Maleficent's superior mobility thanks to her wings. With these she is capable of flying incredibly fast, but also dodging/reacting to various projectiles. This includes crossbow bolts:

https://gfycat.com/gloriousfinishedindianrockpython

This isn't clear-cut arrow dodging. Maleficent was already in flight and didn't seem to even be looking at the guards firing at her. I think it is much more likely that the featless guards had awful aim.

Worth noting she can also dodge the catapult shots from Ingrith's men that successfully hit and killed other Dark Fey, suggesting that Maleficent is more agile of a flyer then the standard Dark Fey. I have no gif to provide for this one, but Dark Fey are factually hit and killed during the battle while Maleficent is not, so I feel that the feat can still be taken seriously.

Ehh, not very impressive, especially with no GIF being provided. Catapults aren't particularly fast.

I do not recall Yennefer ever hitting a target that is both airborne and as fast-moving as Maleficent is with her wings. Even granting that Maleficent does not necessarily have resistance to Yen's best attacks, Yen will likely struggle to actually hit her foe with them.

She won't need to since most of Yen's offensive attacks don't involve projectiles that can be dodged/blocked. Even if Maleficent is airborne and fast-moving, she can still be hit by many of Yen's spells.

Also, Maleficent's wings can be used offensively as well as for mobility. As I've already demonstrated above, her wings can cut chains. But they can also do this:

https://gfycat.com/spiffysimplechihuahua

Even if Yen tried to remove them (and I don't think she can), it would avail her not, as the wings will seek out and re-bond with their owner:

https://gfycat.com/mellowgravecormorant

This would just knock Yennefer back, and she can tank it, so not a major problem.

As for the wings rebonding, that only happens if the wings are removed. If they are damaged and useless, they can't rebond and repair themselves.

Maleficent should win a majority. While Yen's prodigious magical abilities that include attacks Maleficent has no real counter to should allow her to win a minority of the time, I do not see her winning every time, or even most of the time.

I disagree, but that's for the voters to decide ;)

Maleficent is far faster and more mobile thanks to her wings, stronger, no less powerful of a telekinetic or chlorokientic

I will concede that Maleficent is faster and more mobile, but only while in flight. They should be around the same in terms of combat/reaction speeds, and Yen has a few decent durability/pain tolerance feats to allow her to take a few of Maleficent's physical attacks, should it come down to CQC (but it won't).

I think Maleficent's TK has more raw power, but Yennefer is more precise with it.

and like Yen also has some magic that can one-shot that Yen has no evident counter to.

Yen is much more likely than Maleficent to use these kinds of attacks in combat.

Again, I can definitely see Yen winning a minority by hitting Maleficent with a one-shot type attack before Maleficent can, but the opposite should have at least as good of a chance of happening.

I disagree.

To recap what spells Yennefer has at her disposal:

• Portals/Teleportation: Normally take a few seconds to cast, but she has been shown to use them much faster. These can be used to relocate, avoid attacks, or bring herself back to the ground should Maleficent levitate her into the air.
• Mind Reading: Yen can read Maleficent's mind in order to anticipate her next attack
• Telekinesis: can be used as blasts, to control Maleficent's wings/limbs, to toss her back, to block/stop energy projection attacks, and as an internal attack.
• Slowing/Immobilization: Maleficent has no answer to this, and since it doesn't involve a projectile, she can't dodge it. This would either severely slow or completely stop Maleficent in her tracks.
• Absorption: Whether it is done passively or actively, Yennefer can absorb things like lightning and fire.

I don't see this fight lasting more than a few seconds to be perfectly honest. The moment the battle begins, Maleficent will take flight and Yennefer will either just freeze her or crush her with internal TK. These are both in character tactics that Yennefer would initiate a fight with, especially when she realizes she is up against a powerful magic-user who can fly too. Since Yennefer lacks many offensive spells, these two attacks (freezing/internal TK) are pretty much her only logical options.

Maleficent is pretty powerful. She has strong mobility due to her wings and good versatility/hax. However, she is limited in a few ways.

For one, many of the feats you presented for her are spells she does not or has not used in combat. Therefore, she is very unlikely to use these spells in our fight.

Second, based on the battlefield, she can't abuse her chlorokinesis or manipulate nearby objects to use against Yennefer. She could levitate Yennefer, but wouldn't do much in an open area and Yennefer can still portal herself to the ground or attack.

Third, many of her energy projection feats were done against a large number of opponents and while pissed off/bloodlusted. Since she is facing just one woman, and she is in character, it is unlikely Maleficent will blast Yen with her most powerful energy projection blasts.

Fourth, although I will admit that Maleficent has impressive physicals, this won't end up in CQC, so it doesn't make much of a difference.

And lastly, Maleficent's wings does give her strong mobility, but Yennefer's attacks can still tag her without any chance at dodging them, or Yen can manipulate her wings/limbs like she did to the bug creature's appendage.

Yennefer's most powerful feat, where she absorbed a large amount of fire and then incinerated the opposing army, is not applicable in our situation. However, she still has the means to instantly take down Maleficent by either freezing her in place or killing her with internal TK, neither of which Maleficent has any counters to.

You've demonstrated good endurance for Yen, but I do not see anything in those gifs that contradicts my claim that Maleficent is stronger. Matching strength with Sabrina while injured suggests she's stronger then Sabrina, but the latter has no strength feats of note that I can recall, and certainly nothing compared to what Maleficent has repeatedly demonstrated. Similarly, I would consider cutting down the Reavers more proof of sword skill then of raw strength.

I never said that Yennefer was stronger than Maleficent. Maleficent's physical are better, I can't deny that. But this won't ever come to a physicals fight.

I would also challenge the claim that Yen is literally as fast as Geralt. All of the Reavers are also shown to be able to react to Geralt and fight him without being instantly speed-blitzed by him, and one even manages to nearly stab him with a spear. I highly doubt that literally all of these men are exactly as fast as Geralt. And if they are, it demonstrates that his combat speed isn't actually that significant, his crossbow bolt timing being a reflexes feat.

In combat speed, Yen is as fast. Geralt and Yen were both taking down multiple Reavers at once, without much trouble. Only when one of them threw sand into Geralt's eyes did he start to lose.

I can't prove that Yennefer is fast enough to deflect a crossbow arrow like Geralt did, but given her experience, training, and feats, we can at least assume she could dodge an arrow or react to one. But anyways, speed isn't a major factor in this battle.

So yes, Yen has good pain tolerance. But strength should still be comfortably in Maleficent's favor. Further, the fall Yen survived seemed to leave her stunned for a time, and it took her a while to get back up. Granting that the stab wound factored in, I still feel like this establishes a clear limit for Yen's physical endurance, and so Maleficent should still be able to hurt her.

Look again:

Despite being stabbed in the stomach and blown off a multi-story building, Yennefer lands on her feet without issue. She's out of breath, but that's it. The combination of the stab wound + explosion + fall would kill most people, yet Yen survived it and kept fighting.

Maleficent COULD hurt her, but Yen wouldn't be one-shotted.

While Yen has shown she can absorb lightning and fire, neither of these are exactly what Maleficent uses. While Maleficent's spells look like fire, they still appear to be something different from them (as when they hit people and objects they do not cause burning damage). We have actually not yet seen Yen absorb magical attacks directed against her, only natural fire/lightning in the environment. I am skeptical that she can just casually absorb any magic attack sent her way by any magic user.

I'll concede this point, since I can't really prove otherwise. However, that still doesn't stop Yen from blocking any attack with her TK.

The telepathy point is valid, but Yen's use of this power in combat remains relatively untested. While I could see her using TP to predict some of Maleficent's moves, its unclear how effective she would be at doing this or how well she could react to her new information in time. Similarly, Yen has never used teleport-spamming in battle before, including in moments where it would have greatly helped her (such as against the Ronin Mage and the Reavers). Yen seems to use portals only for escaping, not for fighting. I am not sure why she would act any differently here (since OP specifies in-character). So I believe Yen would teleport away if she feels overwhelmed, but I would think of that as a retreat (and thus a win for Maleficent). I suppose she could try to teleport to flee and then teleport back to the fight in a location where Maleficent can't see her, but that would require Yen lasting long enough to think to employ that tactic and then carry it out. The fight might be over by then.

One important thing to note is that Yennefer was never in an actual 1v1 fight against a magical opponent. All of her fights have involved multiple opponents, with a lot going on at once, and usually just fodder.

In a 1v1 fight against a powerful foe, I don't see why Yen wouldn't take full advantage of her magic, which includes telepathy and teleportation. She might not teleport-spam or anything like that, but she can still use her portals to reposition herself. From a distance of 50 feet, it is highly likely Yen would read Maleficent's mind before engaging in the actual fight. She might not continually read her thoughts during the battle, but still.

Since the win conditions are KO/death/incapacitation, Yen wouldn't flee. She could just portal herself farther away but still on the battlefield to giver her some time.

Also, Yen has never teleported to dodge an attack even once that I can recall. So I'm not sure why you assume that Yen would immediately think to do that here.

She never really had to. If she sees some winged woman charging at her, she could rely on a portal to move herself out of the way, although I think it's more likely she just freezes Maleficent or kills her internally.

Maleficent was enraged yes, but I think she would be willing to use this level of power if her life was being threatened. Also, given just how powerful those feats were, I would argue that even if Maleficent wasn't using that exact level of power in her attacks, they should still be devastating enough that they ought to hurt Yen. Besides that, Yen's absorbing of the fire and then unleashing it took everything she had and caused her to vanish. I do not think Yen would be eager to immediately resort to such a tactic anymore then Maleficent is going to be going for the kill right from the off.

Her life has been threatened before and she did not utilize this level of power. Maleficent also never used these kinds of attacks except on large groups of fodder. Since this battle is in-character, I think it is highly unlikely she will replicate this attack against Yen.

I do not think the chlorokinesis feat being done at the border of a forest makes a difference; Maleficent seemed to conjure the vines from the Earth itself via her own power, not using pre-existing trees to form a barrier. Those vines are obviously not natural and are not connected to any trees. I don't see why she can't do a similar thing in other environments where there is earth and soil. And in any event, the argument should be reversible; there is no reason to think Yen can erect any impressive plant barriers in the environment chosen if Maleficent can't.

You're making an assumption without any proof to back it up. The times she has used chlorokinesis in this way, it was ALWAYS in or near the forest. There is nothing to prove Maleficent could replicate this with no trees/forest nearby and on a dead field. It is very likely she is causing the existing plants/vines/trees to grow rather than summon them out of nothing.

I never said Yen would erect a plant barrier lol.

Saying that Maleficent's TK feat isn't applicable here because there are no objects to manipulate doesn't stand up; the energy she uses to destroy that stone can be used as a telekinetic blast. Jedi and Sith and other telekinetics from other settings besides have all shown that they do not need objects to lift up in order to use their TK in combat; they just fire out that telekinetic energy as a "push" type attack. I don't see why Maleficent can't do the same, and therefore don't see why this feat can't count. You just assume that she can use the telekinetic energy used to destroy the stone as a "force push" type attack. It's the same energy.

The only time Maleficent used TK in such a way you are describing, it was against a squad of soldiers, and it took a few seconds for the magic to be effective. This isn't time Maleficent can spare when Yen can stop her in an instant.

Since Maleficent has no feats of just rag dolling people, especially in a 1v1 fight, you can't claim she would do so here.

I invoked the levitation feats to further highlight Maleficent's TK power for the same reason, and also compare it to Yen's seeming lack of levitation to demonstrate that Maleficent appears to have greater versatility with her TK then Yen does. You claim that Yen has greater versatility/skill with TK, but I feel that Maleficent's feats contradict this.

You are acting as if Yennefer never demonstrating levitation is an anti-feat for her lol. Maleficent never demonstrated internal TK like Yen has, so there's my anti-feat for her.

Yen has used TK to make a creature slice its own head off. She has used TK as a concussive blast. She moved a mirror. She pushed Jaskier against a wardrobe. She tossed Geralt back hard enough to crack a wall. She stopped and then redirected a massive fireball. She killed two soldiers in quick succession with internal TK.

And that's less versatile than Maleficent's TK because Yen hasn't levitated?

For the sleep-spell, I believe it took Geralt a few moments to fall asleep when Yen used it on him, whereas Maleficent KO'ed Aurora instantly. So while it is true that Yen can also put people to sleep, that just means that both have the ability, and therefore each one has a chance of doing it to the other. This reinforces my argument that either one has a chance of winning. Similarly, Yen has never demonstrated transmutation in combat or out of it, and seems no more likely to use it in a fight then Maleficent will be. It is true that she doesn't use sleep or transmutation spells in combat that we've seen, but I would argue that if Yen shows she's tough enough to withstand other, more favored spells, Maleficent will be more willing to use other spells to end the contest immediately. So in transmutation and sleep spells, neither one seems to rely on them in combat.

Because Geralt is resistant to mind magic, such as Axii, and he is also very strong-willed. Yennefer also wasn't doing this to harm Geralt, she was being pretty gentle with it.

What feats does Aurora have to suggest it is impressive that Maleficent put her to sleep instantly? None.

We've also seen Triss put multiple soldiers to sleep pretty instantly.

We can agree that neither Maleficent nor Yennefer would use mind/transmutation magic in combat. But if you're going to argue that Maleficent would if she needs to, then same goes for Yennefer lol. However, Yen won't need to since she'll just freeze her or kill her with internal TK within seconds of the fight, and Maleficent has no answer to those.

If she had her back to her shooters and avoided them anyway, I would argue that is more impressive, not less. As for the catapults, the lack of a gif does not disprove the feat of her dodging catapult fire. And said catapult projectiles went fast enough to hit other Dark Fae and kill them. So Maleficent has better reflexes and mobility then others of her kin. Either way, we agree that Maleficent has better reflexes when airborne but not when grounded.

This is clearly the archers missing and trying to hit a moving and flying target, rather than Maleficent actually arrow-timing them through her own skill. They have no feats to suggest they are excellent marksmen.

I conceded that Maleficent is fast and agile in flight, but not enough to dominate Yennefer. Maleficent can be flying and charging at Yen, but from 50 feet away, she's going down via freezing or internal TK just the same.

Again, Yen has never teleport-spammed in combat before or used teleportation to dodge projectiles. While it is fair to argue that Yen could theoretically do so, I think it's reaching a bit to assume that Yen will immediately start fighting with a teleport-heavy strategy like she's Nightcrawler. You have argued that Maleficent will not immediately go for many of her spells due to never using them in combat, but I would argue that the very same logic applies to many of Yen's spells.

True, but I did present two good examples:

1) Teleporting away when she was being attacked

2) Portal-ing away within 2 seconds to escape the assassin

She won't teleport-spam, but she could still teleport away or portal away if she is about to be attacked.

Yen has never blocked magic attacks of the kind or power level that Maleficent has demonstrated. Though I will concede that Maleficent herself has never shielded/fended off other TK attacks from other magic users, so I agree that either one can affect the other with their TK.

Fair enough.

Again, freezing Maleficent will require tagging her with the slowing spell. If Maleficent can stay mobile, she can avoid being frozen as the Dwarves and Reavers were. Now I do agree that if Maleficent attempts to fly right at her Yen will try to slow her as she did the bug creature, butYen did not then kill the bug creature, merely retreat. I don't see why she would use a "freeze and kill" strategy against Maleficent when she failed to do so against the bug or Reavers (as those she cut down with her blades when they were frozen). Also, Yen's spell slowed the bug down, but did not freeze it outright. Maleficent is far faster then the bug monster, and so even if Yen can slow her down, she will not halt her advance entirely. I suppose you could argue that that was a weaker Yennefer and "current"/peak Yen would be able to freeze Maleficent outright rather then slow her down, so I will accept that.

Those were either not the same spells, OR Yen was weakened/exhausted from being on the run and having to use her magic a lot. I presented you with two other examples where she completely froze a group of dwarves (not in combat, but from far away) and a soldier (while in CQC).

She didn't freeze and then internally TK the soldier because she had many other opponents to worry about and a goal to achieve. She literally got attacked by another soldier as soon as she froze the first one. In our scenario, her only concern is Maleficent, and she won't be weakened, exhausted, or focusing on other opponents.

As for "staying mobile", this is a weak argument. Her immobilization spell does not involve a projectile. It takes effect on whoever she wants, wherever she is gesturing towards. Yennefer was running, and so were the dwarves, when she froze them from like 50 feet away:

As for the soldier:

Literally freezes him as he is about to attack her then ducks under a sword swing from a second soldier. This is a very clear-cut use of her immobilization spell being used in combat, and you can't deny that.

But, if Maleficent stays mobile as I said, then Yen should struggle to get a "lock on" so to speak. And if Maleficent keeps her distance and slings magic projectiles at her, she can keep from being frozen. I don't agree that Maleficent has no chance of dodging them. Yen has yet to prove that she can freeze literally any opponent regardless of mobility/speed/altitude. Remember that the Reavers were normal men charging right at her, while the Dwarves were unaware she was running towards them and had no time to react (they also lacked Maleficent's flight/mobility).

There is no "lock on" required. Yennefer holds her hand out towards Maleficent, and Maleficent gets frozen. That's it. No projectile involved, no "locking on" required. And based on the distance of the dwarves she froze, she can do this to Maleficent from 50 feet away. I don't see how you can argue this tbh.

I fully concede that Yen can and will win at least some of the time. But I still remain unconvinced that Maleficent has no chance of winning at least some of the time as well. Both possess numerous means to one-shot, and the two have comparable speed and reflexes. There is little reason to think either party wins every time. If Yen had demonstrated that she can freeze and kill fast, airborne targets as readily as she can do it to normal men, I would agree that Yen wins every time. But barring such displays, I think Maleficent has a chance if she keeps her distance. She won't do that every time, but again, I acknowledge that Yen wins at least some of the time.

I do think Maleficent has a chance of beating Yennefer, but not for a majority.

It comes down to attack options. Maleficent has many, many options to attack Yennefer, although most of them were never used against an opponent in a 1v1 fight, or while in character. Yennefer, on the other hand, is basically limited to two attacks: the immobilization spell and TK. Both of these attacks are instant, involve no projectile, have been used in combat, and would be fully effective against Maleficent. Therefore, 9 out of 10 times, as soon as the battle begins, Yennefer is just freezing Maleficent or using internal TK, both from range.

The 1 out of 10 time is for when Yennefer does something less practical and logical, like a TK blast.

Honestly, nothing has changed since my first post. We both agree that Maleficent is physically stronger, but that they are about equal in terms of speed. Both have the means to one-shot the other, so durability isn't as important. This fight will never get physical, but even if it does, Yennefer has sufficient durability & pain tolerance to take a few hits from Maleficent.

Both of our characters have a lot of hax, but the circumstances of when these hax is important. Maleficent has rarely used her hax in the ways you describe, while in character and against a single opponent. Yennefer, despite her few actual fights, has only ever relied on two magical attacks: immobilization spell and TK. She is unlikely to do anything else. Therefore, she is most likely to use of these two attacks against Maleficent. Either of these attacks can be used from range, don't involve a projectile or anything for Maleficent to dodge, are instant, and would take Maleficent out right off the bat without any chance of defending herself. That is why I believe Yennefer would win a majority over Maleficent.

Physicals: Fair enough on the strength and agility feats. As for durability, this is a great example of why one doesn't rely solely on memory. I fully concede that I totally misremembered this part. And yes, that definitely proves Maleficent won't one-shot with a basic physical attack or even some of her less powerful magic. Though I would challenge the idea that she took an explosion. It seems more that the shockwave of the explosion knocked Yen and Sabrina over the ledge. They were shown to be nowhere close to the explosion when it happened. Still, no-selling a fall like that while injured from a stab wound is an excellent durability feat regardless, so I concede that as well.

She definitely didn't take a direct explosion, but she was within the radius of the blast, otherwise she would not have been knocked off the tower.

Magic: Fair points about how Yen has never needed to employ the strategies you suggest. That thought had, I admit, not occurred to me. I would say though that Maleficent may likewise fight differently then against other foes, as she has never fought anyone like Yennefer before, so the argument is somewhat reversible. But overall, I can concede to much of what you're saying here also.

Fair enough.

Counters: To use your point of Yen never having to do what you're suggesting, the same is true of Maleficent. Her life has been threatened before yes, but never by someone of Yennefer's power, and she has never had to use those kinds of attacks against such an opponent before. Is it really unreasonable to think she might when the occasion calls for it? Yes, she's used it against large numbers of fodder before, but those are also the people she most often faces. But in a 1v1 against a deadly magic-user, would Maleficent really pull her punches needlessly? And again, even weaker versions of those feats I showed should still be sufficient to hurt Yen.

The difference between Yennefer and Maleficent is that Maleficent has many feats of combat or using her magic against others, whether it be individuals or groups of people. Yen, on the other hand, has very few feats in terms of combat. It's easier to assume what Maleficent will do because we have many examples to draw upon. It isn't as easy to assume what Yennefer will do since she has very few examples to draw upon.

For Yen, we can assume she would rely on her immobilization spell or TK, since those are her two most used spells in combat. Maleficent has used many different tactics, from energy projection, to TK, to physical attacks, to chlorokinesis, etc. It is far easier to predict what Yen would do, over what Maleficent would do. I would even go so far as to say that Maleficent, for a slight majority of her fights, tends to utilize her wings more than straight up magic. This leads me to believe she is likely to take flight before doing anything else, rather than instantly attack Yennefer with energy projection or TK.

I'm not saying Maleficent would hold back, but without any knowledge of who Yennefer is, she has no reason to use her best and strongest magic right from the start.

I'd give a counter to the vines bit, but as it's admittedly a power Maleficent probably won't attempt here anyway, the point is likely moot, so we'll just put that to rest and move on.

Fair enough.

But she did rag-doll those soldiers. Or at least I would consider what she did to be so, though I suppose it depends on how you define the term. And once again, the logic is reversible; you say that Yen has never used the strategies you've suggested because she has never previously needed to do so. But the same can be said of Maleficent. She has never channeled all of her telekinetic power into massive "Force Push" type attacks because she has never needed to before. Because she has never faced someone like Yen solo before. Again, I am not sure why the logic does not go both ways here. As for TK versatility, I concede that Yen does seem to be far more strategic in how she uses it (mostly going off of making the bug monster kill itself), so I will reverse my position on this point. Yen is indeed more versatile overall. Maleficent may have demonstrated levitation, but Yen has per your evidence used TK in a greater number of ways, so she is indeed more versatile overall.

Ragdolling would be directly grabbing them with TK and tossing them around. What Maleficent did was create a vortex of TK that spun them around. It took a few seconds to go into full effect, and it didn't seem to do much damage to them. What little damage done was from them hitting the nearby trees. In an open field like this, this attack wouldn't do any damage to Yennefer. At most, it would disorient her.

The applications of TK that I am saying Yen could use in battle are all things she has demonstrated before. You can't claim Maleficent would likewise do the same since she has zero feats of "force pushing" someone. Maybe she can, but there are no feats to prove she can.

I'm glad you are conceding that Yennefer has more versatile TK.

Fair point about Geralt's magical nature making him more resistant to sleep spells. Though, does Geralt ever display Axii in the show? I can't remember if he does. And I thought Axii affected other people's minds, not make one resistant to the hypnosis and mind manipulation of others. And remember that the TV show canon is not the book/movie canon. So even if Axii does protect one's mind in the games and books, that does not necessarily prove it works in the exact same way in the show canon (though I suspect they will probably be shown to be the same in later seasons, so there is that).

Geralt used Axii twice in the show: once to sway Renfri to leave the town, and second to calm Pavetta down. However, it was ineffective in both cases.

When Geralt visited Stregobor in Episode One, he immediately sensed the illusion on the door. Once inside, he saw the illusion of the garden and naked women but knew it wasn't real. He even called out the illusion to Stregobor. It is also mentioned how Witchers don't feel emotions. It is known throughout the series (although not explicitly stated) that Witchers studied magic to some degree, and it is implied that only the best and strong-willed of the Witchers survive the mutation process. This isn't concrete proof that Geralt has a natural resistance to mind magic, but still. Yennefer was doing this to Geralt to gently put him to sleep. She wasn't being forceful or aggressive about it, and we know from Triss that this sleep spell can be done from range and on multiple targets.

I would respond to the rest, but I think we do agree that neither one would consider this a first option in a fight, so this is another point that is probably moot.

I agree. Neither Maleficent nor Yennefer are likely to resort to mind magic in combat.

With regards to the freezing, it may not be a projectile, but she still needs to focus on whatever it is she wishes to freeze. If this were not the case, why she does raise her arm/hand at whatever it is she wishes to freeze? Clearly there is some sort of "lock on". She cannot do it with just a thought it seems. A gesture is required. Is it really wrong to assume that this would be harder against someone who is not only mobile but actively avoiding her? Yes, the Dwarves and Reavers were mobile in a sense, but not only was neither one going anywhere near as fast as Maleficent with her wings, the latter were making no effort to avoid her (instead trying to attack her head-on), and the Dwarves did not realize she was there. I agree that she can use it in combat (though I also not recall ever claiming otherwise). I simply question her ability to do it to literally anyone regardless of things like distance, speed, and the position her opponent is in. But yes, Yen can obviously use it in combat. And the Dwarf feat would indeed suggest that her freezing has greater range then I remember, so if she can hit Maleficent with it then yes, she should be able to freeze her even if the latter is far away. We may not know the exact range limits of Yennefer's freezing spells, but I would think it's sufficient to freeze Maleficent. So I can agree with you there.

Although that may be true, you are acting as if Maleficent can move at such fast speeds that Yennefer could not even perceive her in order to freeze her lol. That is far from the case, and you conceded that speed of our characters is negligible and not a factor.

She raises her hand to gesture and cast, as she does with almost all her spells. Even Maleficent does this most of the time. Yennefer doesn't have to specifically point directly at a target to freeze them. She has always just held up her hand and they were frozen immediately. Maleficent can't fly into the air and close the distance of 50 feet before Yennefer can raise her hand.

I can't estimate the distance between Yennefer and the dwarves, but it was at least 50 feet. Maleficent being airborne won't make a difference, as she is still roughly 50 feet away. And if Yennefer somehow can't freeze her right away, as soon as Maleficent gets close enough, Yen will freeze her. Since we've seen Yennefer slow a bug assassin mid-leap, freeze a group of dwarves who were running roughly 50 feet away, and freeze a soldier who was in CQC with her, I think it is fair to assume that it would work on Maleficent. The distance checks out. The speed doesn't matter since Maleficent's flight speed isn't that far above Yen's combat speed. And in terms of position, well in the air or on the ground shouldn't make a difference as long as Yen gestures towards their area.

I think we've probably covered everything at this point. We agree that Maleficent holds an overall physical advantage and that most of the magic both characters have access to are not things they would immediately think to resort to in a fight but might be more willing to use here given the circumstances. We seem to agree also that each is capable of affecting the other with TK, sleep spells, and transmutation. You maintain that Yennefer will without a doubt freeze Maleficent and use internal attacks to finish her every time without exception. I have no real rebuttal to give to this beyond what I already have. At this point I basically agree that Yen wins a majority regardless, in contrast to my initial stance, which I concede was incorrect. I think we're at an impasse regarding whether or not Yen wins 10/10, but I do admit that she definitely wins at least a majority.

No, we agreed that Maleficent is physically stronger, but that the difference in speed/durability between the two is pretty close and negligible.

We do agree that both have a few options for magical combat, but Yennefer only has two real options, whereas Maleficent has a few more. This is based on what they do in character, against what type of opponent (multiple fodder vs. one strong opponent), and how consistently. Neither is likely to induce sleep or transmute the other in combat. Maleficent is likely to attack physically, use energy projection, or use TK. However, consistently, Maleficent tends to rely on her wings and physical combat. Yennefer only has two options, freezing and TK, both of which are instant and cannot be countered by Maleficent.

I do think Maleficent could win 1 or 2 times out of 10, but only if one of the following happens:

• Yennefer hesitates
• Yennefer creates a portal right off the bat
• Yennefer tries to tank whatever attack Maleficent dishes out first
• Yennefer tries to read her mind and focus on telepathy
• Yennefer draws her knife to engage in CQC
• Maleficent blasts her with the large energy projection attack she used on the groups of soldiers
• Maleficent puts her to sleep
• Maleficent transmutes her

I don't think any of these options are very likely, which is why I am giving it a 1 or 2 out of 10. Based on Yennefer's few feats and her approach to combat, she is very likely (8-9 times out of 10) to freeze an opponent or attack them with TK. That is why I think Yennefer takes a majority.

Nice debating with you. I hope you found my own performance satisfactory. I would definitely be willing to do another of these with you.

It was a pleasure debating with you, and this was a very fun CaV to do! Sorry again for the delays in my first and second posts. I wish you the best of luck in the voting :)