CaV: Akira Hongo (Justsomerandomkid) vs Ken Kaneki (Valor_175) Now Open For Voting!

Akira Hongo

Represented by Justsomerandomkid

VS

Ken Kaneki

Represented by Valor_175

Battle Conditions/Rules

• No Knowledge

• In Character

• Win by Death or KO

Location

@valor_175: This cool with you?

Ehhh Akira doesnt have any respect threads so im gonna have to scrape together some feats

You mind going first?

Cool

Cool. Will reply in a couple of hours (or less), still getting together his feats.

@valor_175: damn you've been in so many CaVs recently

Akira Hongo, The God Fist

Character Bio

Akira Hongō is the Karate Master and God Fist of Yami's One Shadow, Nine Fists. He is reverend one of the best masters of Karate only matched by his friend and rival the 100th Degree Black Belt Shio Sakaki.

Feats

A couple of light feats from Akira. I'll start bring out the big feats when you do

Strength/Striking

Blowing someone through a wall:

Gallery

Kick tears through metal beam holding up sign:

Gallery

Easily tearing through a wall:

Speed

A younger (and weaker) Akira dodging bullets and blitzing the gun man that shot them:

Gallery

Durability

Tanked this grappling move from the Demon Fist (had to dislocate his arm to escape it):

Gallery

Tanked hits strong enough to destroy a tower from the Demon Fist:

Gallery

Skill

Defending attacks from all sides (These are Speed Clones attacking him btw so doubles as a speed feat):

Gallery

An attack that cant be dodged:

Gallery

Initial Thoughts

1. Ken has nowhere near the strength to take down Akira.

2. I dont see Akira being tagged. He can easily defend from all directions

3. Ken is HEAVILY outmatched in skills and martial arts. I would love to see you debate otherwise. Akira has fought and defeated Grand Masters (people above masters). Its debatable for Ken to even be able to handle a disciple class fighter let alone a regular master (Akira is a Grand Master btw).

4. Akira would pierce Ken through the chest without a second thought.

@valor_175: Damn i got distracted. Should've had this done 2 hours ago lol. Your go

Tfv

TF141

Tv4

This looks interesting, tag me!

@valor_175: Post will be up tonight.

Counters/Strategy

Strength/Striking

While Akira's striking feats are impressive, nothing you've shown has topped Kaneki's feat of slamming someone through four floors of concrete. I also might add that this feat was accomplished after Ken had been brutally tortured for 10 days straight, so in no way was he at full strength. As such, I don't feel the need to throw out more strength feats until the ones I have presented have been topped.

Akira strikes destroying the tower him and the Demon Fist fighting on:

Gallery

This feat trumps anything in Ken's Durability or Striking feats as far as im concerned. Here's the scale of the towers him and the Demon Fist destroyed:

Gallery

Akira beats Ken in striking and durability

Counters: Speed

If all Akira has done is dodge bullets from hand guns, then he's going to be blitzed pretty heavily by Ken

Outside of fighting people that have dodged bullets point blank? How about reacting and dodging attacks from Shigure (Weapons Master):

Gallery

Same Shigure could react and parry blows from a master that specialized in Supersonic draws:

Gallery

Akira heavily outclasses Ken in speed. He's not getting tagged at all.

Counters: Durability

His regen can only last so long. I've shown Akira's striking can most definitely override his durability. Akira will continue to beat on Ken until he finally stays down. If by some miracle, he knocks Akira unconscious, Akira has fought while completely unconscious against a master of equal strength without any decrease in skill or strength:

Counter: Skill

Im not going to say that Kaneki is even half as skilled as Akira, but he was able to fight a ghoul who had trained in martial arts his entire life in H2H, so I really dont see Ken being overwhelmed by Akira's skill.

There are plenty of low ranked masters who have trained their entire life and still is fodder to Grand Masters like Akira. Time doesnt automatically means a martial artist is extremely skilled.

Conclusion

1. Akira heavily outclasses him in speed. Not only that but as a master (and a high class one at that) he's skilled at predicting where his opponent attack would land. Akira is not getting tagged

2. He's too durable even IF he got tagged

3. He hits harder than anything Ken has faced before, a couple of punches from a Karate Master is gonna KO him easily.

@valor_175: Post up. Your go. This is the last post right?

@valor_175: I'll post min a couple of hours

Final Counters

Strength/Striking

If the attack that destroyed the tower was off panel, then there is no way to tell how many strikes it took, or if it was even Hongo's attack.

Its not off panel, those are literally the back to back scans. The first scan happened and then the second scan came right after it. Its completely obvious that it was due to Hongo striking the Demon Fist repeatedly. Ken has not tanked anything on that level as far as ive seen.

Meanwhile, a severely weakened Ken slammed another ghoul through four floors of concrete while playing around.

i dont see why you came naming this as if its impressive. Low-level cam replicate this feat with their eyes closed. Thats a very weak Striking feat.

As a matter of fact I have no doubt current Ken could replicate that feat, as all the feats I've shown so far are from before two massive timeskips where he gets MUCH stronger.

You have yet to show many any feat to suggest he could even come close to have the destruction and Akira and the Demon Fist caused on each towers. I understand he had a timeskip but that doesnt automatically means he's 10x stronger or anything. He doesnt have the feats and simply saying "he got a whole bunch stronger so he should win based of of this weaker feat' isnt gonna fly.

And even if Hongo holds strength over Ken, that's not his primary fighting method anyway. Kaneki prefers to dice you up with his Kagune, and unless you can provide feats of Hongo having enough slicing durability to resist multiple attacks that cut through reinforced steel like butter, he's going to get into trouble with Ken.

Akira wont get tagged. Period. His speed is greater as well as his ability to read his opponents (something every Grand Master can do). He's not getting touched.

Speed

None of the feats you have shown top a weakened pre-timeskip Ken blitzing a supersonic ghoul.

You havent shown me any ghouls with supersonic feats to back them up. I've already shown he can comfortably dodge and outmaneuver someone as fast as Shigure (who DOES have supersonic feats to back her up)

Even fodder ghouls can and have bullet-timed, and Kaneki is the most powerful ghoul shown so far. When Hongo has a feat of that magnitude, then I'll adress speed in a more official manner.

Disciples (who are fodder to even low-level Masters) are casual bullet timers themselves. Akira is regard as one of the strongest masters in the Manga.

Durability

Ken has very good durabilty on top of having skin that is harder than steel. Here he tanks attacks from a ghoul that can collapse entire bridges with a single strike:

Nothing to suggest he wont be knocked silly by Akira.

Also, if you really think Kaneki will get K.O'd, then look at this feat where he defends against someone who makes massively supersonic opponents look slow while he has a hole in his brain:

Thats impressive. Still wont mean he cant be decapitated by one of Akira's kicks

Or simply continuously be pierced through.

This shows that nothing Hongo could do to Ken would K.O him, let alone stop him from fighting.

Akira's stamina definitely will outlast Ken's. Even being kncoked unconscious doesnt stop him.

Skill

I feel like you've completely ignored this section and the obvious advantage Akira has in this category. You have no answer for Akira's techniques (such as surrounded him from all sides with his strikes). Or how Akira can defend himself from all positions making Ken's Kakuja next to useless.

Final Conclusion

Havent shown me that Ken is close to Akira in speed at all, nor that he would even get tagged. Akira strikes harder, faster and more efficient than Ken by a mile

The God Fist sends Ken back home in a bag.

Those that asked to be tagged:

@joewell911: @kamishini: @wewlad80: @cerberus369616:

Done

@valor_175: @justsomerandomkid: Really good match, you two! Both did good, and I found it really hard to decide.

That being said, I think I'll have to vote for @justsomerandomkid after much consideration. He was able to prove that Akira is strong enough to do damage, with the tower busting feat, and skilled/fast enough to land the hits required to overwhelm Kaneki's healing.

With that in mind, here's a bit of things I saw specifically that I think could have been improved on.

• I think both sides did a little bit of low balling, for example:

You havent shown me any ghouls with supersonic feats to back them up. I've already shown he can comfortably dodge and outmaneuver someone as fast as Shigure (who DOES have supersonic feats to back her up)

After this was in Valor's opener.

Valor, on the other hand, had this;

If the attack that destroyed the tower was off panel, then there is no way to tell how many strikes it took, or if it was even Hongo's attack. Meanwhile, a severely weakened Ken slammed another ghoul through four floors of concrete while playing around.

When the feat in question clearly showed otherwise.

In addition, I think that both of you kinda ignored a major part of the others argument.

• For Kid, it was not giving enough attention to the Kagune, which is a major part of Kaneki's fighting. The sole reason this wasn't a bigger swing than it was is because of the blurb at the end on how Akira can defend from all sides.
• For Valor, it was how much he brushed over a skill advantage would matter. His counter was basically "Kaneki has fought other, not as skilled opponents, was hit, and survived, therefor he can do the same here" and I think it's overall what lost him the match in my eyes.

So in the end, I think you both could have stood to be a little more thorough, but you both did really solid and I give props to you both for the entertaining debate!

I totally expected Ken Kaneki to take the win here but my vote will have to go to @justsomerandomkid . His feats felt much more to the point and quantifiable, thoroughly proving bare minimum supersonic Combat speed with the Shigure scan and Kenichi specifically noting that by the time the sound was heard the sword was back in the sheath and the Tower Busting feat with pictures to show scale giving us a a way to visualize just how monstrous the striking feat is for arguably street level combatants. I also felt that @valor_175 tried to lowball a clear feat for no reason other than not having a solid durability counter to it. I could respect an argument that the fight had weakened the Tower up till then in the first place so it diminished the singular strike (though even as a shared feat destroying and building of that size in a single fight would still be very impressive) but arguing the feats was off panel strikes me as him not reading the scan correctly or blatant low balling. So for my reason's Kid takes my vote.

@cerberus369616: @joewell911: Thanks for voting and the feedback.

JSRK- 2

VALOR- 0

Bump

@wewlad80: @kamishini: Still need votes.

@justsomerandomkid: Sorry I didn't get the first tag, I'll probably vote tomorrow.

Cool

Nice CaV and debate, but that said my vote goes to @JustSomeRandomKid because he proved that Akira could easily handle Ken thanks to his skills and power, but I would have liked to see more of speed feats/scaling and the same for skills.

The main reason that made Valor lose is trying to lowball a feat on pannel and didn't really present a counter for the skills.

@kamishini: Thanks for voting

JSRK- 3

VALOR-0

@wewlad80: Voting?

Jesus can we get some votes.