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#1 Edited by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio

Ainz Ool Gown:

Repped by D_AeroFlame_Z
Repped by D_AeroFlame_Z

Versus

Galactus:

Repped by yours truly
Repped by yours truly

Conditions and stipulations

  • In character, but very serious.
  • Standard gear.
  • No prep time or knowledge for either of the combatants.
  • Ainz is composite.
  • 616 well fed Galactus.
  • Win by any means

Location: indestructable and uninhabited Earth

No Caption Provided

Note:

  • This is a CaV, desist from posting your opinion on the outcome of the battle or posting comments/engaging in conversations that will derail the topic of this thread.
  • If you wish to be tagged for voting, then comment as such.
  • While voting, do not vote with your opinion on the battle as a basis for the vote, but vote for who you think convinced you of their stance.
  • Votes without a valid reason/justification will not be considered, this is to avoid biased or unfounded votes

Asides from that, we hope you enjoy the debate. :)

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#2 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every post, but I’m probably not voting.

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#3 Posted by noah_ouellette (3512 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V but I think I’m missing something. How does Ainz hold a candle?

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#4 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

@noah_ouellette: he’s incredibly haxxed, though whether or not he’s haxxed enough for galactus is questionable

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#5 Posted by Rac95 (4348 posts) - - Show Bio

Never heard of Ainz. Please tag me after your posts, I think this could be enlightening

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#6 Posted by deactivated-5c522ab96172e (2388 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by deactivated-5c522ab96172e (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, T4V.

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#8 Posted by TotallyNotJucas (583 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V but I think I’m missing something. How does Galan hold a candle?

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#9 Posted by Kevd4wg (12517 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every post

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#10 Posted by HitTheAssasin (7888 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, goddamnit, this mismatch again. T4V.

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#11 Edited by D_AeroFlame_Z (315 posts) - - Show Bio

Introducing: Ainz Ooal Gown

No Caption Provided

Backstory for Bone Daddy

Ainz Ooal Gown (アインズ・ウール・ゴウン), formerly known as Momonga (モモンガ), is the main protagonist of the Overlord series. He is the guild master of Ainz Ooal Gown, Overlord of the Great Tomb of Nazarick and the creator of Pandora's Actor. He is regarded as the highest of the Almighty Forty-One Supreme Beings by the NPCs of Nazarick.

In the New World, he is the Sorcerer King of the Sorcerer Kingdom and the most powerful magic caster in the world. His other identity is famously known as "Momon," a dark warrior and leader of Darkness, an adamantite ranked adventurer group of that nation. He is an adamantite class adventurer and the strongest adventurer known in E-Rantel.

Cosmology of Yggdrasil

Before any of the feats that Ainz and, subsequently, any of the members of the Tomb of Nazarick can be analyzed accurately, we need to go over the cosmology of Yggdrasil, and the way power works within their original world. We first need to understand what a 'world' is. The original kanji for world, used in both the manga and light novel is 世界, which roughly translates to 'world or universe'. Note, that none of the translations translates this particular kanji to 'Planet' or 'Earth' or anything similar which means that, more likely than not, the 'Worlds' that Yggdrasil refers to are their own universes, all of which are infinite. I will go into further detail using passages from the Light Novel, which I'll abbreviate to LN for the rest of this post, and all that follow after it.

At the moment, a black night sky could be seen at the top of the arena and if there was no light magic nearby, you could even see the stars in the sky twinkle. The sixth floor of Nazarick was covered by a virtual sky. Not only did it slowly change over time, it even had a rising sun, complete with daylight effects. One could relaxed while living in this fictional scenario, so it was worth the effort for his guild members. Although his mood is improving as he's staying here, the current situation doesn't allow him to continue doing so.

...

The surrounding of the Underground Tomb of Nazarick should be a large swamp. It is home to a Frog like Monster called Zwick. A mist-shrouded surrounding with many poisonous swamp.

"Yes, the surrounding is a Grassland."

Momonga can not help but smile gently. This situation is a bit too much ......

"The large Underground Tomb of Nazarick crossed entirely to an unknown place? ...... Sebastian, is there something floating in the sky, or did some magic incantation appeared?"

"No, I do not see something like that. There is an endless sky like inside the sixth layer."

"What! You say the sky? ...... Surrounded by nothing strange?"

"No ...... There is nothing strange anywhere to be found. Apart from Nazarick, there is no other buildings to be found outside. "

- Volume 1

Within the new world, they realize that they are under an 'endless' or 'infinite' sky, with multiple celestial bodies. With multiple stars, moons, and planets, we see that within each of these endless skies, there are, supposedly, celestial bodies, and each of these expanses of space go on endlessly, including the one within Nazarick. The person who says this is of particular importance, that being Sebas Tien, who is a very serious character who never speaks in hyperbole. Everything he says is literal, and he is most precise when speaking to one of the Supreme Beings, I.E., Ainz. This is further built upon in the next paragraph.

The bluish white light from the moon and stars drove away the darkness on the ground. Blowing in the breeze, the swaying grasslands looked like a shining world. The countless stars in the sky along with the moon and planets gave off a brilliant radiance, complementing the scenery on the ground.

Momonga could not help but sigh:

“Beautiful… No, too beautiful for words…. I have no idea what kind of face Blue Planet-san would make if he saw this…”

If he saw a world with no air, water or soil pollution.

Momonga thought about his companion, thinking about when he appeared on the net, he was praised as a romantic, on his face that looked like a rock showed a smile——a warm and gentle man who loved the night sky.

No, what he loved was nature. He loved natured even though it would be polluted and disappear. Because he wanted to admire a scenery that no longer existed in reality, he started playing Yggdrasil. He also spent a lot of his time and hard work on crafting and designing the sixth floor, especially the night sky, thereby creating his ideal world.

...

Momonga looked away from the transformed Demiurge and back to the stars in the sky, like speaking to friends who were not here Momonga sighed:

“.... Even just relying on the moon and the stars I can see the scenery…. Its hard to believe this is really the real world. Blue Planet-san…. The sky is really shining like a jewelry box.”

- Volume 1

He talks about how Blue Planet spent a lot of time recreating this endless sky within Nazarick and this endless expanse was also present in Yggdrasil itself, on each of the worlds. As we all know, the night sky is simply us being able to look into the space and, as such, them saying it's endless is not, really, a stretch in and of itself, due in part to the fact that not only is Yggdrasil's cosmology based on the real world, but so is the sixth layer of Nazarick, which is also referred to as being endless. Basically, what this proves is that there are multiple infinite, universal sized expanses that existed within Yggdrasil.

The World Dragon; Importance of 'World'

It was the year 2138 A.D., and the term DMMO-RPG was not only in existence, but also becoming more common.

Being the acronym for <Dive Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game>, it described an interactive game where one was able to play in a virtual world like it was real life, by connecting a dedicated console to the neuron nanointerface— an intracerebral nanocomputer network composed from the quintessence of cyber- and nanotechnology.

It was as though you entered the game for real.

Amidst a myriad of DMMO-RPGs that were developed, there was one title that shined brilliantly.

Yggdrasil.

- Intro

The first thing we need to discuss is the above statement, that of Yggdrasil being a computer game, made from cyber and nanotechnology. Keep in mind that everything that is being discussed before entering the new world is being processed and rendered by a computer system. This is going to be important.

The YGGDRASIL World Tree was once covered with countless number of leaves, but one day a gigantic monster appeared and devoured these leaves. As such, the leaves were destroyed one by one, until only nine were left. These nine leaves became the world’s predecessors, called Asgard, Alfheim, Vanaheim, Nidavellir, Midgard, Jotunheim, Niflheim, Svartalfheim, and Muspelheim.

However, the monster which devoured the leaves of the World Tree relentlessly pursued these remaining nine leaves. This was the background story of the game: Players would step out into the unknown and face dangers in order to protect their own world.

What then, did these World Class items represent? They are equivalent to those leaves——that is to say, each World Class item equals one world. Therefore, it was set up so that each World Class item possessed an enormous amount of power. In fact, many World Class items had extremely abnormal amounts of power.

- Intro

The World Dragon is the designated 'World Enemy' of the initial game of Yggdrasil, and was known for eating each of the individual leaves over the course of one day. Notice how the word they use to describe the number of leaves is 'countless' and not 'endless' as is used to described the sixth layer of Nazarick, or the night sky within Yggdrasil. While, usually, this would be of no real importance, one has to realize that something without an end is infinite, meaning that the computer system that runs Yggdrasil is able to render and compute infinite quantities and, yet, it is incapable of computing or rendering the number of worlds there were. This means that there has to be a beyond endless, or beyond infinite number of worlds that were eaten over the course of one day, meaning that the World Dragon, itself, is far beyond baseline universal in terms of raw power. But another part of this quote is needed to properly scale Ainz and friends.

As if the game development company placed a lot of sentiment on the phrase ‘World’, whether it was a player class or an enemy, those with the word ‘World’ in the name would be set up to be much more powerful than normal.

The final boss of the official campaign, ‘Devourer of Nine Worlds’, a beast that gained tremendous power from consuming the leaves and became the designated ‘World Enemy.’ The class granted only to the winner of the tournament, ‘World Champion,’ the one chosen by the nine worlds.

-Volume 3

The World Dragon only became as powerful as it was after it ate the infinite+ leaves of the World Tree. This scales him quite high in terms of raw power, even when compared to Galactus, even before becoming a World Enemy. But why all this scaling, you may ask. It's Galactus vs Ainz, not Galactus vs World Dragon, well, here's the thing. Ainz has actually fought a World Champion, and was good friends with one, that being Touch Me.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Here, it is directly stated that Touch Me was a Paladin who was one of the strongest in all of Yggdrasil, period. It's not stated that he was the strongest player in Yggdrasil but, rather, he was one of the strongest, including the World Enemies. Ainz directly scales to Touch Me and, while, he hasn't ever beaten him, which can be attributed to Touch Me's build hard countering Ainz's (a warrior build, and a Paladin, with Ainz having weak physical defense and a weakness to holy and fire attributes), but he still scales to him, as he never once states it's a flat out stomp, and, of course, Touch Me entrusts Ainz with the Guild after his departure, indicating he thought Ainz was not only strong enough, but the best fit if not him. Admittedly, the average World Champion can take on about 3 high level players at once, while a World Enemy can take on 30, but when dealing with infinites such as universal, a 10x difference isn't all that much, and is negligible. So, with this scaling, you can easily put Ainz at having some massive power.

Physicals

Ainz is not particularly physically powerful, as we can see on his stat card.

No Caption Provided

However, him being able to react to beings such as Touch Me means that he should at least have infinite+ speed (as the World Dragon was able to across an infinite number of universes, all of which are endless or infinite). This also means that Universe+ attacks will be able to be tanked by Ainz as well, due to scaling to Touch Me. And, if need be, he can even don the armor and weapons of Touch Me, along with the many other weapons of the other 41 level 100 beings within Nazarick, using his cash shop items.

No Caption Provided

Hax

The thing I'm sure everyone's been waiting for. Ainz has a great deal of hax, and I'm first going to be going over his many resistances and skills.

Each day, one could summon four high tier undead, twelve mid tier undead, twenty low tier undead, negative contact, desperate Aura V [instant death], negative guard, dark soul, dark light, immortal blessing, the ability to negate damage Ⅳ, thrusting weapon resistance V, slashing weapon resistance V, higher-tier repel resistance Ⅲ, higher-tier magic invalidation Ⅲ, ice/acid/electric property attack invalidation, magic vision strengthening / see through.

Also professional level additional capabilities ─── instant death magic strengthened, skilled dark rituals, immortality aura, creating Undead and so on. The basic special ability is Undead. Fatal blow invalidion, ineffective mental function, food/poisoning/ Sick/sleep/Instant death/paralysis invalidation, necromancer magic, flesh damage resistance, does not need oxygen, debuff invalidation, energy drain resistance, negative energy recovery ability, and night vision.

- Volume 1

Just like his outer appearances, it appeared that his mental faculties had been affected as well.

First, there were his emotions: as soon as he experienced strong emotions, they would be immediately put aside in order to calm him down, it was almost like something was repressing them. Another point was his lack of any kind of desire, be it hunger or sleep. At first there seemed to be a sexual appetite, but even after touching Albedo’s soft chest, there wasn’t any additional impulse.

Feeling as if he lost something very important, Momonga couldn’t help but look at his waist:

"Since there is no actual use ...... Will it disappear?"

Becoming slightly emotional, he starts to utter this out of frustration, but before he could finish half of his sentence, that feeling completely vanished.

Momonga believed these changes to be extremely useful, particularly his mental changes. Perhaps an Undead is completely resistant to spiritual attacks.

Although now Momonga possessed an undead body and mind, he was still a human deep inside. Because of that, there would be moments when he experienced emotions, but the moment those emotions became too strong, they would be repressed instantly. Momonga was afraid that he would lose all his emotion in the future if he continued to stay within his undead body.

...

Momonga stretched out his bony hand and───scratched his skull, thinking. After turning into an undead who was immune to mental effects, did he really feel nothing after looking at such a scene? Definitely not.

- Volume 1

Not only does Ainz have complete immunity to ice/acid/electric attacks, but he's also immune to fatal blows (head lobbing, organ destroying, etc.), mental attacks, spiritual attacks, poisoning, sleep, and instant death attacks, along with being incapable of being debuffed, a resistance to having his energy drained, the ability to see in the dark, and the ability to feed off of negative energy. Due to the nature of his verse, these all scale to high tier universal, as any level 100 player should scale to each other somewhat, though, even amongst level 100 players, Ainz was particularly skilled because of his ability to constantly adapt his loadout, as he beats Shalltear, who is supposedly the strongest PvP character in all of Nazarick, and even hard counters Ainz' build in the same way Touch Me does.

Now, on to his offensive hax abilities. The most notable thing Ainz has to deal with someone like Galactus is his ability to use Instant Death magic, and Wishes. Ainz's Instant Death magic is incredibly high tiered and, as seen above, is amped even further due to his classes. I'll now be giving a list of his Instant Death spells that he can cast.

  • Negative Energy Touch: Deals negative-type damage to the object being touched, attacked, or skill-attacked by Ainz. Before the target is inflicted by negative-type damage, it can be fully recovered by avoiding direct physical contact with Ainz. Death can occur from the unhealable strength attribute being reduced to zero. It can be acquired during the Elder Lich level up and can be activated or deactivated at will.
  • Death: A 8th tier spell that can be used on a single target each time. Ainz can used it with Silent Magic.
  • Grasp Heart: A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them. Even if the target resists, they instead become stupefied or stun as a secondary effect. This is said by Ainz to be his favorite spell.
  • Cry of the Banshee: Shout that has an instant death effect, and can also be used with his special skill to widen AOE
  • True Death: A 9th tier spell, which invalidates the effect of lower-tier resurrection magic.

Of the above Spells, the most dangerous is True Death, as it not only kills the opponent, but it also makes it so that they cannot be revived using lower tier ressurection magic. Lower-tier resurrection magic is the basic magic used to revive Shalltear, who was brought back after getting her mind, body, and soul completely 'killed' by the Cry of the Banshee, amped by the Goal of All Life is Death. What is the Goal of All Life is Death, you ask?

The Goal of All Life is Death: This special skill is one of Ainz's most powerful abilities and comes from the maximum level (5) in Eclipse. Eclipse is one of the hardest classes to get because it requires an Overlord with spells specialized in necromancy and instant death type magic. The Eclipse class lets the user become a true lord of death, a life-consuming Eclipse. It strengthens the instant death effect of magic and skills to the point of bypassing any immunity or resistance and killing their targets after a certain amount of time had passed. Ainz used this special skill with '(Widen) Cry of the Banshee,' and it killed everything in 100 meters. The cooldown of this special skill is 100 hours duration. It's not possible to resist death spells enhanced by this special skill unless one uses a resurrection effect on themselves within 12 seconds. This special skill is considered to be the trump card of the Eclipse-class.

The Goal of All Life is Death is the special ability afforded to Ainz through the use of specing into the 'Eclipse' class. It's able to kill things such as the air around him, the land, and even things such as Homunculi, which have no concept of life nor death. It's even able to bypass all immunties or resistance to said spells, and can be applied to any spell within his arsenal, including Cry of the Banshee, and True Death, both of which would completely end Galactus if he were hit by them and they were amped by TGOALID.

Basically, what I've done here is made it clear that not only does Ainz contend with Galactus, and other Skyfather level beings, I'd say he's squarely above them, due to the potency of his Instant Death magic, along with his physicals, durability, and multiple other things that I haven't gotten into. He should also be immune to just about anything Galactus tries.

@streak619

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#12 Posted by Kevd4wg (12517 posts) - - Show Bio

ew books

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#13 Posted by D_AeroFlame_Z (315 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

....

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Edited by TheTruthIII (3309 posts) - - Show Bio
@noah_ouellette said:

T4V but I think I’m missing something. How does Ainz hold a candle?

Not at all. Ainz is nowhere NEAR this level. I'm interested in how this plays out tbh

OT: T4V please. Unless a troll CaV. Then tag after every post

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#17 Posted by deactivated-5c522ab96172e (2388 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what? Tag me after each post, I need to see how this will progress.

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#18 Posted by TotallyNotJucas (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Children these days can't even read a paragraph.

Sad!

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#19 Posted by ChaosKnight75 (1027 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO

I’m done, bruh

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#20 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by lilcabbage (710 posts) - - Show Bio

so his speed is infinite+? Can somebody explain this vsauce shit to me

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#22 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7353 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, I thought this was a meme.

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#23 Posted by D_AeroFlame_Z (315 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilcabbage: i'm not sure if i'm allowed to explain it to you outside of a post thingie. am i?

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#24 Posted by Jacthripper (14902 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be a lot of extrapolation and NLFs...

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#25 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

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#26 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Edited by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus: The devourer of worlds

Know me Ainz, know me and . . . KNOW FEAR!
Know me Ainz, know me and . . . KNOW FEAR!

Background

Once upon a time, in a universe far preceeding our own, there who went by the name Galan. This brave man along with other of hearts of steel drove into the heart of the doom of the universe that upon them as a final testamant to the greatness of their deceased world Taa, to set out and see what no man hast ever seen, and set foot where no man hast ever been and end their mortal live in the grandest and gloriest of death within the blazing inferno.

But

Just as Galan was about to meet his end, a voice called out to him! It said solemnly:

No Caption Provided

And that my friends, is the legend of Galactus.

Hope you enjoyed that.

Capabilities

Destructive power

Galactus has incredibly destructive power and equally great durability. He can deal and endure attacks that are not only universal in scale, but at his most powerful, universal in destruction as well. Without further ado, let's delve into some of his feats.

For starters, in Annihilation #5, he was able to cause an explosion that encompassed three star systems:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

In Thanos Imperative: Ignition, however, it was retconned to be galactic in size and power:

No Caption Provided

Context: What makes this feat impressive, is that Galactus was without a doubt in his weakest state he's even been. He had been captured by Annihilus and was not only almost completely drained of his strength, he was also just barely given anough cosmic energy to just barely ensure that he doesn't die due to lack of sustenance:

Annihilators #4
Annihilators #4

So the fact that he was able to output so much energy despite being kept alive for many days with just the barest trickle, as Thanos described it, of energy required for his survival, should paint you a picture of how powerful he's be if he were well fed(as he is here). Moving on, in Cosmic Powers #6, a hungry Galactus was able to stalemate and even overwhelm Tyrant, a creature of his own creation, in a battle that destroyed galaxies:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Yet again a good showing for his destructive capacity and durability. Moving on, In Marvel Graphic Novels #38, his fight with Mephisto disarrayed galaxies and even threatened the entire universe:

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Despite being hungry and deprived of a real world. A hungry Galactus performs a similar feat yet again against Agomotto in the latter's dimension, where the mystic vibrations of their battle wreaks havoc across many dimensions:

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Doctor Strange: Sorcer Supreme #43

That's righ folks, not even their actual attacks or the clash, but merely the vibrations from it were travelling to the dimensions of the other entities of the Vishanti and wreaking havoc. Not only was Galactus unfed, but was fighting Agomotto in the latter's dimension where the latter was at his strongest and Galactus was weaker than normal. Furthermore, the narrator states that all the beings of the universe were glad that Galactus chose not to here Agomotto's rude parting words as they were leaving, in order to highlight and emphasise on the gravity of the two entities fighting:

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Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme #43

Which again highlights how powerful Galactus is despite being hindered on multiple levels, which he isn't in this battle. Galactus performs a similar feat against the Scrier and Other:

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The Mighty Thor Annual
The Mighty Thor Annual

Yet again Galactus contributes to atleast half of the energy in a fight that was going to threaten all of reality, which should thoroughly prove that Galactus is atleast universe level, ie: able to significantly or largely affect the universe. However that isn't his limit, with his full power, Galactus should more than be capable of destroying entire universes. In Annihilation, Annihilus was going to use Galactus's cosmic energy to destroy the universe amd consecutively 'ignite a conflagration' that would destroy the Otherverse(a multiverse):

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Annihilation #4

Which irrefutably proves that Galactus, at full power certainly possesses the energy to destroy the universe, what further cements this is the fact that he was actually going to do so in Fantastic Four #341, when the Dark Celestial altered Galactus's hunger, as the latter was resurrecting(in Fantastic Four #244), to be much geometrically greater than before, in order to satiate his hunger, Galactus created a star sized black hole that was going consume the universe and all of space and time and feed it to himself in order to satiate his limitless hunger:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #338 - #342

Galactus has also used such scales of power in combat, such as when he oneshotted a celestial, a nigh universal entity, and then went on to tank the combined power of the three of them:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #603

More impressively, In Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #2, Galactus reveals to surfer that he once slew the phoemal god Dialberri and sealed the sealed the phoemal gods Tenebrous and Aegis, instead of killing them, with the energies of the expansion of the universe and the Big Crunch:

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Which is actually quite impressive because not only were the three gods born of the energies of the expansion of the universe and the Big Crunch but can also use its power in combat:

Annihilation: Herald of Galactus #2
Annihilation: Herald of Galactus #2

So to be able to be capable of killing all three in gods like Galactus is explicitly painted to be is impressive in and of itself because these three gods could all-in-all tap into multiiversal amounts of energy. What makes this even more impressive is that Tenebrous is a universal entity himself, the embodiment of what seems to be a description of dark matter:

Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #2
Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #2

Making the potrayal for Galactus all the more impressive and is highly consistent with his other showings, If this isn't enough to show that Galactus is atleast universal in raw energy, then how about the fact that his very origin consists of universal feats? Galactus survived the destruction of the previous universe by fusing with the previous Eternity, the sentience if the universe, as well as the following Big Bang of the new universe:

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The Origin of Galactus #1

Multiple universal feats right there. A last piece of evidence to support the notion that Galactus is indeed this powerful would be the fact that even databooks support Galactus being universal:

No Caption Provided

Which brings me to an end of this section. All in all, I think I've sufficiantly proven Galactus is universal in scale and in raw energy as well.

Hax

A list of hax Galactus can use:

  • Energy Projection
  • Energy Manipulation
  • Matter Manipulation
  • Nigh immortal.
  • Telepathy
  • Telekinesis
  • Healing
  • Shielding
  • Cosmic Teleportation
  • Antimatter manipulatiom
  • Life Creation
  • Size Manipulation
  • Time Manipulation
  • Space manipulation
  • Power Granting

Expanding and substantiating upon some essential/relevant abilities

Matter manipulation

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  • Scan 1: Turned Terrax into insects and pure energy (Fantastic Four vol.1 #211)
  • Scan 2: Contracted the electrons in Johny's flames (Fantastic Four vol.1 #49)

Telepathy

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  • Scan1-2: Overwhelmed Charles in TP. Charles is atleast a planetary telepath (X-Men vol.2 #90)
  • Scan3: His defenses even while resting and hungry were too much for Charles. (Secret Wars #5)

Teleportation:

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  • Scan 1-2: Teleported from the Sun to the Earth (Silver Surfer vol.5 #5)
  • Scan 3: Teleported a galaxy to another sector in space (ROM vol.1 #27)

Time manipulation

Fantastic Four vol.1 #213
Fantastic Four vol.1 #213

Forced Sphinx ro relive his life

Space manipulation:

Spacial intangibility

Ultimate Comics: Cataclysm #0.1
Ultimate Comics: Cataclysm #0.1

Immortality:

No Caption Provided

Galactus could reconstitute himself, Nova, Doctor Strange from complete annihilation with pure will.

And that's that. Frankly I have been comparatively lazy with this section, but that's only because it really is pointless to give anymore than I already have.

Debunk section

Debunking the size of the 6th floor of Nazarick:

Within the new world, they realize that they are under an 'endless' or 'infinite' sky, with multiple celestial bodies. With multiple stars, moons, and planets, we see that within each of these endless skies, there are, supposedly, celestial bodies, and each of these expanses of space go on endlessly, including the one within Nazarick. The person who says this is of particular importance, that being Sebas Tien, who is a very serious character who never speaks in hyperbole. Everything he says is literal, and he is most precise when speaking to one of the Supreme Beings, I.E., Ainz.

Oh. My. God. I don't even know where to begin.

First off, yeah no, it's a hyperbole. Saying that Sebas speaks precisely or is a very serious character does absolutely nothing at all to change the fact 'endless' is an extremely common hyperbole and is seldom used literally ever. Sebas being precise and serious does not mean you take every single word in it's most literaly context. Sebas was most definitely using the word 'endless sky' in the context "I can't see the end of the sky" or "The sky extends beyond where the eye can see" as is commonly used, this doesn't really violate being precise or serious whatsoever, that's fan fiction.

Secondly, it should be logically impossible for Sebas to have meant "endless sky" to be literally infinitely large. Because in order to verify that something is indeed endless (which is what Sebas would have had to do if he meant it literally), you would need to traverse across it's length and emperically verify that it has no end. But since it is endless and extends endlessly ie: infinitely, one would need to travel an infinite amount of distance and verify that it extends infinitely, which means Sebas would have had to travel an infinite amount of distance in the time Ainz sent him to recon their surroundings. Which is absolutely absurd and beyond trollish levels of wank, it's almost ban-worthy.

Conclusion? Sebas didn't mean endless sky to as literally an infinitely extending sky. Yep, big surprise ain't it?

There goes your speed argument.

Debunking World Dragon wank:

The World Dragon is the designated 'World Enemy' of the initial game of Yggdrasil, and was known for eating each of the individual leaves over the course of one day. Notice how the word they use to describe the number of leaves is 'countless' and not 'endless' as is used to described the sixth layer of Nazarick, or the night sky within Yggdrasil. While, usually, this would be of no real importance, one has to realize that something without an end is infinite, meaning that the computer system that runs Yggdrasil is able to render and compute infinite quantities and, yet, it is incapable of computing or rendering the number of worlds there were. This means that there has to be a beyond endless, or beyond infinite number of worlds that were eaten over the course of one day, meaning that the World Dragon, itself, is far beyond baseline universal in terms of raw power.

No Caption Provided

It took me like ten minutes to even comprehend this argument, whether or not that's a good thing, I'll let you decide.

Your argument yet again relies on a single complletely hyperbolic statement. I've already debunked the infinite world nonsense so this anyways absolute BS. Again, here the word 'countless' could simply and most perfectly and probably is simply being hyperbolicly used to describe a great number. Even if it meant uncountable in the context you rnadomly interpret it as, there is no evidence whatsoever that it meant to say "Too many for Yggdrasil to count". But you seem to have true lack of understanding on what counts as a hyperbole. Taking every dubious statement as irrefutable fact can give you some nonsesical results. For example, Odin is stated to be omnipotent:

No Caption Provided

Galactus > Odin. So I guess Galactus is omnipotent+? Your logic entails that. And it's absolutely ridiculous.

Debunking Ainz's hax

Not only does Ainz have complete immunity to ice/acid/electric attacks, but he's also immune to fatal blows (head lobbing, organ destroying, etc.), mental attacks, spiritual attacks, poisoning, sleep, and instant death attacks, along with being incapable of being debuffed, a resistance to having his energy drained

See yet again, your argument entirely hinges on the dubious interpretation of a single word. When a character in a verse is said to be immune to something, it usually mean that the character is immune to the best of what the verse has and not regardlesa of its magnitude or power. To say he would be immune to TP from Galactus id just an NLF.

Dealing with the abilities:

Negative Energy Touch: Deals negative-type damage to the object being touched, attacked, or skill-attacked by Ainz. Before the target is inflicted by negative-type damage, it can be fully recovered by avoiding direct physical contact with Ainz. Death can occur from the unhealable strength attribute being reduced to zero. It can be acquired during the Elder Lich level up and can be activated or deactivated at will

What is negative energy type damage? I only watched the anime and don't remember much of the technical stuff and many of the voters here are comic purists. The least you could do is explain all your abilities completely.

Death: A 8th tier spell that can be used on a single target each time. Ainz can used it with Silent Magic

Cry of the Banshee: Shout that has an instant death effect, and can also be used with his special skill to widen AOE

Have these worked on anyone remotely as powerful Galactus?

Grasp Heart: A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them. Even if the target resists, they instead become stupefied or stun as a secondary effect. This is said by Ainz to be his favorite spell

Galactus doesn't have a heart, he appears to be a humanoid creature because human minds perceive him like he is bumanoid or their brains would melt:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Fantastic Four vol.1 #521

The Goal of All Life is Death is the special ability afforded to Ainz through the use of specing into the 'Eclipse' class. It's able to kill things such as the air around him, the land, and even things such as Homunculi, which have no concept of life nor death. It's even able to bypass all immunties or resistance to said spells, and can be applied to any spell within his arsenal, including Cry of the Banshee, and True Death, both of which would completely end Galactus if he were hit by them and they were amped by TGOALID.

It was revealed to be a metaphor in the underlined description of the attack:

Then Ainz's ace move activated.

In that instant, the world died.

That was not a metaphor.

It died. All of it.

Einherjar, who'd been brandishing its lance before him, turned to white mist and began to collapse. It died instantly despite being a construct and having no life. In the same way, all of Shalltear's kin were enveloped in a power they couldn't resist and died off.

This wasn't all.

It brought death even to the lifeless air and made it impossible to breath wthin a diameter of 250 yards. If there was anything trying to breathe and liv in that area, its lungs would have been polluted by dead air and it would have died from that.

Even if it says 'it's not a metaphor, the underlined parts prove that it is all just transmutation. All it did by 'killing' the air was just transmuting it to be impossible to breathe. All it did to the einherjar was reduce it to dust. The novel uses hyperboles extremely heavily, calling transmutation 'death'.

Furthermore Galactus cannot be compared to something as fodderish as that einherjar. Galactus is a natural force of the universe. A metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos. An intrinsic element of reality. And an equal of Death itself. To say that an attack that worked on som street tier summon would work on someone like Galactus is the very definition of an NLF.

Conclusion

Galactus stomps. My opponent's entire arguments relies on hyperboles whereas I have objectively proven that Galactus has enough firepower and hax to oneshot Ainz in any of the ways illustrated in the sections above.

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#28 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18253 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#30 Posted by TheTruthIII (3309 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Dude, that was an awesome first post. Great rebuttals. Although, and I'm not sure if this is counter-productive to the CaV (I'll delete this post if so), but the Black Celestial Arc showing you used for Galactus isn't Earth 616 Galactus. Not that you particularly need that one feat lol

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#31 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Dude, that was an awesome first post. Great rebuttals.

Thanks!

Although, and I'm not sure if this is counter-productive to the CaV (I'll delete this post if so), but the Black Celestial Arc showing you used for Galactus isn't Earth 616 Galactus. Not that you particularly need that one feat lol

You're right, I don't need it specifically, but we can scale to 616 Galactus because that future stemmed from the 616 continuity, it's a possible future and would have happened in the 616 continuity if the Dark Celestial altered him in the current continuity. So you can say Galactus is that powerful

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#32 Posted by TheTruthIII (3309 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruthiii said:

@streak619: Dude, that was an awesome first post. Great rebuttals.

Thanks!

Although, and I'm not sure if this is counter-productive to the CaV (I'll delete this post if so), but the Black Celestial Arc showing you used for Galactus isn't Earth 616 Galactus. Not that you particularly need that one feat lol

You're right, I don't need it specifically, but we can scale to 616 Galactus because that future stemmed from the 616 continuity, it's a possible future and would have happened in the 616 continuity if the Dark Celestial altered him in the current continuity. So you can say Galactus is that powerful

Hmm. Fair enough. I personally don't 100% agree with this (alternate timeline characters get kinda janky power level wise, like Galactus getting wrecked by Pym Particles in Cosmic Ghost Rider or losing to Ego in Old King Thor's timeline), but I do totally understand where you're coming from. Doesn't hurt that 616 Galan is usually more powerful than any of his alternate counterparts.

Anyways, nice job! Look forward to seeing this progress

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#33 Posted by geeman2 (2006 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this actually a fair fight?

either way t4v.

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#34 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Edited by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: oh man, I’m loving this. Terrific opener.

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#36 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by D_AeroFlame_Z (315 posts) - - Show Bio

The Mighty Ainz Ooan Gown strikes back!

No Caption Provided

Countering 'Counters'

Within the new world, they realize that they are under an 'endless' or 'infinite' sky, with multiple celestial bodies. With multiple stars, moons, and planets, we see that within each of these endless skies, there are, supposedly, celestial bodies, and each of these expanses of space go on endlessly, including the one within Nazarick. The person who says this is of particular importance, that being Sebas Tien, who is a very serious character who never speaks in hyperbole. Everything he says is literal, and he is most precise when speaking to one of the Supreme Beings, I.E., Ainz.

Oh. My. God. I don't even know where to begin.

First off, yeah no, it's a hyperbole. Saying that Sebas speaks precisely or is a very serious character does absolutely nothing at all to change the fact 'endless' is an extremely common hyperbole and is seldom used literally ever. Sebas being precise and serious does not mean you take every single word in it's most literaly context. Sebas was most definitely using the word 'endless sky' in the context "I can't see the end of the sky" or "The sky extends beyond where the eye can see" as is commonly used, this doesn't really violate being precise or serious whatsoever, that's fan fiction.

Secondly, it should be logically impossible for Sebas to have meant "endless sky" to be literally infinitely large. Because in order to verify that something is indeed endless (which is what Sebas would have had to do if he meant it literally), you would need to traverse across it's length and emperically verify that it has no end. But since it is endless and extends endlessly ie: infinitely, one would need to travel an infinite amount of distance and verify that it extends infinitely, which means Sebas would have had to travel an infinite amount of distance in the time Ainz sent him to recon their surroundings. Which is absolutely absurd and beyond trollish levels of wank, it's almost ban-worthy.

Conclusion? Sebas didn't mean endless sky to as literally an infinitely extending sky. Yep, big surprise ain't it?

There goes your speed argument.

I'll say it straight out. This argument isn't valid, through the concept known as a Hitchen's Razor. This is, basically, a claim that is made without any sort of evidence to back it up. Applying the logic of 'what he probably means' or 'this is trollish levels of wank' doesn't count as a valid debunk, because you have provided no evidence to support your statement otherwise, and are simply trying to use rhetoric in order to win people over. Within my post, I was able to prove, with evidence, that Sebas is serious. He is aware of the endless and infinite nature of the sixth floor of Nazarick. My argument is that characters who are level 100 and above scale to Ainz and Touch Me, who scale to the World Dragon, who is able to traverse infinite expanses of space. With my logic, and my scaling, it makes sense that Sebas, too, who is physically more gifted than Ainz himself, would be able to cross this infinite expanse and verify that it is, indeed, infinite, within the time it took for Ainz to come out. I'm not even sure why you're trying to say it's unreasonable, when it's the premise of my argument. If you can't debunk my claim with actual counter evidence, or give me something that proves otherwise, then, since my claim is the one with evidence to support it, you have to concede the point. So, no, my speed argument has gone nowhere, and you've simply proven that your arguments are, primarily, based on claims without evidence, as opposed to mine which have a great deal of it. Onto the next.

The World Dragon is the designated 'World Enemy' of the initial game of Yggdrasil, and was known for eating each of the individual leaves over the course of one day. Notice how the word they use to describe the number of leaves is 'countless' and not 'endless' as is used to described the sixth layer of Nazarick, or the night sky within Yggdrasil. While, usually, this would be of no real importance, one has to realize that something without an end is infinite, meaning that the computer system that runs Yggdrasil is able to render and compute infinite quantities and, yet, it is incapable of computing or rendering the number of worlds there were. This means that there has to be a beyond endless, or beyond infinite number of worlds that were eaten over the course of one day, meaning that the World Dragon, itself, is far beyond baseline universal in terms of raw power.

No Caption Provided

It took me like ten minutes to even comprehend this argument, whether or not that's a good thing, I'll let you decide.

Your argument yet again relies on a single complletely hyperbolic statement. I've already debunked the infinite world nonsense so this anyways absolute BS. Again, here the word 'countless' could simply and most perfectly and probably is simply being hyperbolicly used to describe a great number. Even if it meant uncountable in the context you rnadomly interpret it as, there is no evidence whatsoever that it meant to say "Too many for Yggdrasil to count". But you seem to have true lack of understanding on what counts as a hyperbole. Taking every dubious statement as irrefutable fact can give you some nonsesical results. For example, Odin is stated to be omnipotent:

No Caption Provided

Galactus > Odin. So I guess Galactus is omnipotent+? Your logic entails that. And it's absolutely ridiculous.

*sigh* Okay, once again, you're using a literal logical fallacy in order to substantiate your claims. My arguments may take you a long time to comprehend, simply because of how elaborate and sound my arguments are in comparison to yours. But Aero, you may be saying, what fallacy did I use? Well, you used a False Equivalence. The statement that I provided has evidence to support it, that being my earlier scaling, and my ability to prove that each of these 'worlds' are universal, which you have yet to debunk. The moment that you're incapable of debunking something being universal, you're immediately conceding to the premise that the game, and the verse, consequently, are capable of dealing in infinities. This is evidence. Your above argument also had no evidence to back it up outside of your own poorly applied rhetoric, which, through Hitchen's Razor, I am allowed to dismiss. Anyway, onto your use of a literal logical fallacy.

My claim had evidence to back it up, but Odin is clearly not 'Omnipotent'. The fact that Odin is consistently overpowered, and beaten, is evidence that he is not omnipotent. By providing evidence, such as him being defeated, that makes my claim valid, and an accurate debunk. The fact alone that you're saying that Galactus > Odin directly debunks the statement of him being omnipotent, as it's impossible to be omnipotent+. You're comparing apples to oranges here. One is a statement with actual evidence to back it up, one is a clearly hyperbolic statement, with no evidence. It seems that the only fallacy that you guys know around here is the No Limits Fallacy, and don't realize just how many more logical fallacies there are, which is why you're constantly employing them. I've already pointed out two. Let's see if we can find a third.

Not only does Ainz have complete immunity to ice/acid/electric attacks, but he's also immune to fatal blows (head lobbing, organ destroying, etc.), mental attacks, spiritual attacks, poisoning, sleep, and instant death attacks, along with being incapable of being debuffed, a resistance to having his energy drained

See yet again, your argument entirely hinges on the dubious interpretation of a single word. When a character in a verse is said to be immune to something, it usually mean that the character is immune to the best of what the verse has and not regardlesa of its magnitude or power. To say he would be immune to TP from Galactus id just an NLF.

Dealing with the abilities:

Negative Energy Touch: Deals negative-type damage to the object being touched, attacked, or skill-attacked by Ainz. Before the target is inflicted by negative-type damage, it can be fully recovered by avoiding direct physical contact with Ainz. Death can occur from the unhealable strength attribute being reduced to zero. It can be acquired during the Elder Lich level up and can be activated or deactivated at will

What is negative energy type damage? I only watched the anime and don't remember much of the technical stuff and many of the voters here are comic purists. The least you could do is explain all your abilities completely.

Death: A 8th tier spell that can be used on a single target each time. Ainz can used it with Silent Magic

Cry of the Banshee: Shout that has an instant death effect, and can also be used with his special skill to widen AOE

Have these worked on anyone remotely as powerful Galactus?

Grasp Heart: A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them. Even if the target resists, they instead become stupefied or stun as a secondary effect. This is said by Ainz to be his favorite spell

Galactus doesn't have a heart, he appears to be a humanoid creature because human minds perceive him like he is bumanoid or their brains would melt:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Fantastic Four vol.1 #521

When did I ever say that he's immune to everything without limits? You seem to be trying to take my arguments out of context in order to apply the only fallacy that you seem to know, that being the No Limits Fallacy. I actually said this;

Not only does Ainz have complete immunity to ice/acid/electric attacks, but he's also immune to fatal blows (head lobbing, organ destroying, etc.), mental attacks, spiritual attacks, poisoning, sleep, and instant death attacks, along with being incapable of being debuffed, a resistance to having his energy drained, the ability to see in the dark, and the ability to feed off of negative energy. Due to the nature of his verse, these all scale to high tier universal, as any level 100 player should scale to each other somewhat, though, even amongst level 100 players, Ainz was particularly skilled because of his ability to constantly adapt his loadout, as he beats Shalltear, who is supposedly the strongest PvP character in all of Nazarick, and even hard counters Ainz' build in the same way Touch Me does.

This directly debunks you calling me on a 'NLF', because I directly say what these resistances and immunities scale to, or, to put it simply, I put a limit on them. So how is this at all a No Limits Fallacy? Not too sure there, bud.

As far as negative energy goes, it's exactly what it sounds like. Negative energy. Evil, bad, dark energy. Negative energy. It's simply Ainz' general aura and air about him.

As far as Death and Cry of the Banshee, yes, Cry of the Banshee, while amped with TGOALID to neg Shalltear's instant death spell immunity, was able to kill her, her homunculis, and everything around them, all of whom scale to that vastly above universal baseline, as I stated before, which you have failed to debunk.

Also, not too sure about Marvel scaling, but we have seen Galactus bleed a few times, so if he's not truly something that can bleed or has organs, then why would he bleed?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

It was revealed to be a metaphor in the underlined description of the attack:

Then Ainz's ace move activated.

In that instant, the world died.

That was not a metaphor.

It died. All of it.

Einherjar, who'd been brandishing its lance before him, turned to white mist and began to collapse. It died instantly despite being a construct and having no life. In the same way, all of Shalltear's kin were enveloped in a power they couldn't resist and died off.

This wasn't all.

It brought death even to the lifeless air and made it impossible to breath wthin a diameter of 250 yards. If there was anything trying to breathe and liv in that area, its lungs would have been polluted by dead air and it would have died from that.

Even if it says 'it's not a metaphor, the underlined parts prove that it is all just transmutation. All it did by 'killing' the air was just transmuting it to be impossible to breathe. All it did to the einherjar was reduce it to dust. The novel uses hyperboles extremely heavily, calling transmutation 'death'.

Furthermore Galactus cannot be compared to something as fodderish as that einherjar. Galactus is a natural force of the universe. A metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos. An intrinsic element of reality. And an equal of Death itself. To say that an attack that worked on som street tier summon would work on someone like Galactus is the very definition of an NLF.

Are you being serious? Did you just not read the third line? That was not a metaphor. Are you being serious? If you're gonna be dishonest, at least try and cut out the part that directly debunks your claim of it being a metaphor. So, you trying to prove that it's a metaphor when it's directly stated to not be a metaphor is wild to me. You also have to realize that it's not just making it impossible to breathe air. It's literally called 'dead air', and anyone who breathes it would die. You're, once again, using a Hitchen's Razor. You have no evidence to prove what is literally stated to be not a metaphor.

As far as him being a natural force of the universe, a metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos, an intrinsic element of reality, and an equal of Death itself, my response is...so? He can still die. He can still be killed with enough power, and I've already shown you Ainz being able to destroy beings that are high above Galactus in terms of power. We see it multiple times throughout Marvel that Galactus can die, so why would any of Ainz' instant death spells not work on him? Can you objectively prove that you need to have the ability to destroy concepts to even kill Galactus? Because, from what I'm seeing, you just need a sufficient amount of power.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

Hax Counters

This section doesn't need to be too long, as I don't really feel like you posted anything worth me debunking, as most of them are covered by Ainz's immunities.

Matter manipulation

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
  • Scan 1: Turned Terrax into insects and pure energy (Fantastic Four vol.1 #211)
  • Scan 2: Contracted the electrons in Johny's flames (Fantastic Four vol.1 #49)

This scan doesn't really do anything. I've already proven that Ainz is more than fast enough to dodge Galactus' eye lasers, through the infinite scaling you failed to debunk.

Telepathy

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
  • Scan1-2: Overwhelmed Charles in TP. Charles is atleast a planetary telepath (X-Men vol.2 #90)
  • Scan3: His defenses even while resting and hungry were too much for Charles. (Secret Wars #5)

Once again, invalid. Ainz simply cannot be mind haxed, not because of immunities, but because he just don't have a mind. It's invalid not immune meaning that he doesn't have a mind to mind hax due to the nature of him being Undead. It'd be like trying to mind hax a robot with TP.

Time manipulation

Fantastic Four vol.1 #213
Fantastic Four vol.1 #213

Forced Sphinx ro relive his life

Ainz not only has time stop magic of his own, but he has counter-measures for time stop magic.

Ainz vanished.

It was the same tactic as earlier.

“Teleportation!”

“Not quite.”

As expected, the voice came from behind.

“I—”

Before Roberdyck could finish, Ainz’s hand gently settled on Imina’s shoulder. There was no hint of enmity in that gesture.

However, it had a telling effect. All the strength in her body vanished, and she slumped to the ground. Although her mind was fully functional and conscious, her body felt like a puddle of immobile, insensate slime.

“What did you do to her?”

Roberdyck asked his question in a trembling voice, as his eyes went from Imina to Ainz, who stood by her side.

“Was that a surprise? It’s nothing special.”

Ainz proceeded to explain in such a way as to break Roberdyck’s spirit.

“It was almost the same as just now. After casting a silent ‘Time Stop’ I moved over here and cast the same spell I used on that man, ‘Touch of Undeath’. And then, I just touched her.”

The silence felt as though the space between them had been frozen. The sound of Roberdyck swallowing was exceptionally loud in comparison,

“…He stopped time…”

“Oh yes. Anti-time stop countermeasures are very important, don’t you know? You’ll need to have them by the time you hit level 70. Oh well, you’re going to die here, so in your case, it’s largely academic.”

Roberdyck grinded his teeth.

He was lying. If only he could say that. If only he could deny everything this monster—this god—was saying. It would be better if he fell to his knees and clutched his ears to shut the words out.

He understood that Ainz was very powerful.

However, even with that considered, stopping time and the like was something that should not exist in this world.

The march of time was a flow that could not be mastered or controlled by humanity. What could he do against a foe who was capable of such a feat? Cutting down an entire forest with a single sword would be an easier goal in comparison.

Ainz Ooal Gown. He was a being that the human race could never defeat. He was a man who stood at the cusp of divinity.

He gripped his mace in both hands—

—and he felt a light tap on his shoulder.

“Ah…”

Roberdyck’s body stopped moving. He did not have to look to know who had done it. It was Ainz Ooal Gown—that godlike being who could control the passage of time—who was supposed to be standing in front of him. When had he vanished from his field of vision?

The cold flowing into him made him feel as though he had turned into an ice sculpture. Thus, any feeling and freedom were stripped from his body.

“—It was useless, wasn’t it?”

-Volume 7

Here's a list of his equipment also.

  • Ring of Ainz Ooal Gown[Divine class artifact]: It allows the user to freely teleport between every room inside Nazarick. Every member of Ainz Ooal Gown was required to wear this ring.
  • Shooting Star[Divine class artifact]: It allows the user to activate a Super-Tier Magic spell, "Wish Upon a Star" three times without consuming experience.
  • Ring that allows the user to resurrect at barely any penalties. With this ring equipped by Ainz, he would lose some experience points and his lowest-quality item after resurrection instead of five levels and highest-quality item.
  • Ring that protects the user from detection by all kinds of divination-type magic. This may also be the ring that prevents the detection of magical aura and user status, i.e. being undead.
  • Ring that protects the user from behavior disturbance.
  • Ring that protects the user from temporal attacks and attacks designed to impede their freedom of movement.
  • Ring of Mastery Wand: Ring that allows the user to use a ward regardless of the class requirement.
  • Other rings and one of them listed above each containing twelve magic spells for Ainz to use like [Remote Viewing].

Just to show you that not only does he have a ring that allows him to be protected from time magic, but also that he can't have his movement impeded, or his behavior modified through hax. These rings should also scale to him in potency, because they're meant to be effective against players Ainz would PvP against, I.E., other level 100 players.

Spacial intangibility

No Caption Provided

Ainz has spells to deal with this as well, should Galactus hide behind intangibility.

  • Astral Smite: A 8th tier spell. It is an attack that is effective against Ethereal beings. This also counts against beings, who are temporarily Ethereal
  • Reality Slash: A 10th tier spell that is top class in damage dealing, but consumes a lot of mana. The spell is considered to be a lesser version of 'World Break'. By using "Triplet Maximize Magic," Ainz creates three attacks that slashed space itself. It is capable of cleaving through the very fabric of space, and a hit from this powerful attack spell could disregard virtually any form of magical defense.

Now, onto the final hax.

No Caption Provided

Galactus could reconstitute himself, Nova, Doctor Strange from complete annihilation with pure will.

This is irrelevant. Ainz has magics that I've already listed earlier that can negate resurrection on a physical, astral, and mental level. Unless you can show me a scan of Galactus coming back after being destroyed on these three levels, while also having his regen blocked, Ainz can kill him.

Quick Explanation of 'Infinite Speed'

So, the formula for speed is S = D/T, or Speed = Distance / Time. When something is able to move across a universe, an infinite distance, over a set amount of time, such as, say, ten billion years, Infinity / Ten billion is still infinity, so the Speed becomes infinite. Look at it in terms of miles per hour. If I were to, say, be going infinite miles per hour, every unite would break down as infinite. I'd be infinite miles per second. Infinite miles per millisecond. Infinite miles per nano second. So when I say infinite speed, that infinite speed can be applied to any feat in which someone crosses an infinite distance over a finite amount of time.

Conclusion

My opponent utterly failed to debunk any of my arguments. He immediately resorted to calling everything hyperbole with no real evidence, tried to say some things were metaphors despite being specifically stated to not be metaphors, and began to use multiple fallacies and philosophical razors (False Equivalency and Hitchen's Razor, respectively), and tried to call me out on NLF despite me setting the limits for my character. All in all, my opponent's arguments held very little actual weight to them, and he couldn't debunk any of my scans with evidence, simply his own headcanon and fallacies.

@streak619

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#38 Posted by D_AeroFlame_Z (315 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I’m gonna keep a close eye on this CaV. Nice work so far from both sides.

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#40 Posted by Kevd4wg (12517 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Excellent post, some new stuff for Galactus I hadn't seen before.

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#41 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#42 Posted by Lan_Fan (12691 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this actually a fair fight?

either way t4v.

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#43 Posted by geeman2 (2006 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that is a good counter.

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#44 Posted by TheTruthIII (3309 posts) - - Show Bio

Woooo this is getting good. Can't wait for voting

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#45 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio

Galactus of the oneshot

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Rebuttals

Size of the 6th level of Nazarick

I'll say it straight out. This argument isn't valid, through the concept known as a Hitchen's Razor. This is, basically, a claim that is made without any sort of evidence to back it up. Applying the logic of 'what he probably means' or 'this is trollish levels of wank' doesn't count as a valid debunk, because you have provided no evidence to support your statement otherwise, and are simply trying to use rhetoric in order to win people over.

This is just a strawman fallacy. Textbook mispotrayal of an argument that I'm going to disect. Firstly let's take a look at the first two statements my opponent makes:

I'll say it straight out. This argument isn't valid, through the concept known as a Hitchen's Razor. This is, basically, a claim that is made without any sort of evidence to back it up.

My opponent says I offer no evidence for the claims against his own despite the fact that, here, I attack the very premise of his argument:

No Caption Provided

Is not demonstrating why the very foundational premise of my opponent's argument is an unsubstantiated assumption, not evidence supporting that my opponent's argument is wrong? My opponent claims that the 6th layer is infinite because Sebas said it was endless, and that Sebas is a (quote) 'very serious and precise character' and thus every word to have ever exited his mouth is therefore meant to be take in its most robotically literal meaning.

My counter to that is that A) Being a very serious character in and of itself does not prove that Sebas's statements were meant to be taken in the most literal context. Very serious people can use obvious and intended hyperboles as well, there is nothing universal that prevents someone as serious as Sebas from using a hyperbole at all whatsoever. Serious people can use obvious and intended hyperboles, very serious people can also use obvious and intended hyperboles, and extremely serious people can also use obvious and intended hyperboles. There is nothing that implies swrious people can't use hyperboles for a variety of purposes such as emphasis, highlights, obvious exaggeration to easily convey a point etc.

So when my opponent says Sebas meant his words in the most literal interpretation only because Sevas is an allegedly serious character. That's a non-sequiter because being a very serious person does not automatically imply that => You cannot use hyperboles. Whatsoever.

So yes, my claim, that your argument of the 6th layer being infinitely large is fallacious is supported by evidence. Nowhere have I used a hitchen's razor. Moving on:

Within my post, I was able to prove, with evidence, that Sebas is serious.

Where? You just said:

No Caption Provided

Without substantiating it. Nowhere did you prove with quantifiable, demonstrable or testable evidence that:

  1. Sebas is as serious as you claim he is. (I know Sebas is generally serious, but not as much as you claim he is.)
  2. That every word Sebas utters is irrefutably and objectively meant to be interpreted in the most literal way ever, since being serious by itself does not mean a person is as literal as a robot at all times.

So this just an unsubstantiated claim from your side and is in fact the real Hitchen's razor.

Furthermore there is evidence that Sebas uses hyperbolesa dn not evrrything he says is the absolute literal. This is proven by this single panel:

Overlord manga chapter 33
Overlord manga chapter 33

Here Sebas says thinks to himself: "The supreme beings' (Ainz in this case) will is absolute" in the second panel, but he still defied their will (as confirmed in the last two panels). Which means that that his intial statement of the Supreme being's will being absolute was a hyperbole and that their wills aren't absolute in the most literal context.

Which absolutely rips apart the notion that every statement made by Sebas is absolutely literal about every word he utters. Moving on;

He is aware of the endless and infinite nature of the sixth floor of Nazarick.

Hitchen's razor. Objective and explicit citations for this please.

My argument is that characters who are level 100 and above scale to Ainz and Touch Me, who scale to the World Dragon, who is able to traverse infinite expanses of space. With my logic, and my scaling, it makes sense that Sebas, too, who is physically more gifted than Ainz himself, would be able to cross this infinite expanse and verify that it is, indeed, infinite, within the time it took for Ainz to come out. I'm not even sure why you're trying to say it's unreasonable, when it's the premise of my argument.

You still haven't concretely proven that the 6th level is infinitely large.

If you can't debunk my claim with actual counter evidence, or give me something that proves otherwise, then,since my claim is the one with evidence to support it, you have to concede the point.

What evidence? where is it? when is it? Nowhere have your proved anything. You said that the 6th level was infinitely large by taking one dubious statement of Sebas, said that statement was literal because Sebas is a serious person and THAT'S IT. You haven't given anything supporting any of the claims you made.

Another point of contention: Why endless =/= infinite.

Another thing I would like to mention is that 'endless' isn't = infinite automatically. Something that doesn't have an end doesn't need to be infinitely large. Take for example a circle, a circle has no beginning or end yet it is not infinitely large. The surface of the Earth has no beginning or end. You can walk in any random direction for an infinite amount of time without finding an end, but the surface of the Earth is not infinitely wide or large. Instantly debunking your argument. Because even IF Sebas meant that literally, there are still two contexts

Why Ainz, or any Overlord character, isn't infinitely fast

First off, there is no such thing as 'infinite+'. There is only infinity this a mathematical fact. Travelling infinite infinitely large universes is still only infinitely fast. Furthermore the thing about all the characters like members of Nazarick being infinitely fast is that it leads to some infinitely crazy scaling. Because moving relative to an infinitely fast character makes you infinitely fast, even if you move at 10% of the speed of an infinitely fast character you're still infinite. Let me demonstrate what I'm saying:

Shaltear moved relative to Ainz making her infinitely fast:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Brain is able to move relative Shaltear making him infinitely fast:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Climb is able to move relative to move relative to Brain:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Climb is even able to dodge a punch from a bloodlusted Sebas(who my opponent claimed was infinitely fast):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

So I guess Climb, an unskilled, untalented, unexperienced boy who doesn't even scale to regular soliders of the army picked up from the slums is consistently infinitely fast? Along with all the other peak humans?

I rest my case. Moving on:

Ainz isn't infinitely fast himself, in his fight against Shaltear, Ainz's TGOALID speel had a 12 second cool down agaimst Shaltear, yet they most certainly didn't accomplish infinite tasks or attack infinitely:

That skill was called 「The Goal Of All Life Is Death」.

In that moment, a clock face appeared behind Ainz, its hands indicating 12:00. Then, he cast a spell:

“「Widen Magic - Cry of the Banshee」.”

A woman’s wail echoed through the air. This cry carried with it an instant-death effect.

Ainz had used various skills to augment this spell, so its potency was greater than normal and harder to resist. Still, it was useless against Shalltear and the Einherjar construct.

Oddly enough, Shalltear’s summoned minions — who had no resistance to instant death — did not fall.

This situation was quite bizarre, but Ainz remained unmoved. Rather, one could say that things were going as planned.

Tick.

The clock face behind Ainz ticked, and its hands slowly moved as the spell took effect.

Ainz glanced at Shalltear in the distance as his health dwindled under the onslaught of the Einherjar, and at the same time he felt quite disappointed.

...So I can’t finish this cleanly, huh? Damn you, Peroroncino, did you build her specifically to counter me? To think you actually gave her a resurrection item! Dammit!

Ainz cursed his guildmate within his heart.

Ainz frantically struggled to avoid the attacks of the Einherjar. After twelve seconds had passed, the hour hand had completed a full circuit, and it pointed to the heavens once more.

Credits to HitTheAssasin

If all these characters were indeed infinitely fast, would there not be an infinite sequence of events in this 12 second span? Clearly, they didn't, he was only able to accomplish a finite amount of things in 12 seconds, in the anime as well:

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Finite amount of strikes in 12 seconds = finite speed, Ainz got tagged by something that is explicitly finite in speed. That white thing attacking Ainz is an einherjar that has the same stats as Shaltear and was pressuring Ainz with a few strikes in 12 seconds. Therefore Ainz is not infinite+ in speed.

Therefore, debunked. Thank you for reading.

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World Dragon stuff:

*sigh* Okay, once again, you're using a literal logical fallacy in order to substantiate your claims. My arguments may take you a long time to comprehend, simply because of how elaborate and sound my arguments are in comparison to yours. But Aero, you may be saying, what fallacy did I use? Well, you used a False Equivalence.

No that wasn't a false equivalence at all. A false equivalence is insinuating that entity A reatins the properties/characteristics or simply put is equivalent, generally or in one specific regard, to entity B because they are equivalent in another, irrelevant apect, like saying a Christian is evil because Hitler was Christian. However I never insinuated that they were equivalent, ever. I said that the Odin statement was a consequence of your logic, it was an example of what your logic could lead to. It was just to demonstrate that dubious statements were not meant to be taken literally. It was an example as I explicitly stated so.

So no, strawman fallacy.

The statement that I provided has evidence to support it, that being my earlier scaling, and my ability to prove that each of these 'worlds' are universal, which you have yet to debunk. The moment that you're incapable of debunking something being universal, you're immediately conceding to the premise that the game, and the verse, consequently, are capable of dealing in infinities. This is evidence. Your above argument also had no evidence to back it up outside of your own poorly applied rhetoric

That Odin argument was not the primary argument I made. Again, a mispotrayal of my arguments and my stance. The primary and first argument I made was this:

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This was the first and the primary counter I offered, something you completely and blatantly ignored. My primary argument was attacking the assumption you made, that the statement "countless leaves" somehow meant "Too many leaves for Yggdrasil to count".

This assumption is completely unsubstantiated as it very well could be (and probably was) used as a hyoerbole. That possibility exists and this time, unlike with the Sebas statement, you didn't even bother to offer even the slightest bit of evidence that the statement was meant to be used in the most literal context. And I'm not even sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

But either way, prove that the statement was written in the context that you interpret it as or get out. Simple.

My claim had evidence to back it up, but Odin is clearly not 'Omnipotent'. The fact that Odin is consistently overpowered, and beaten, is evidence that he is not omnipotent. By providing evidence, such as him being defeated, that makes my claim valid, and an accurate debunk. The fact alone that you're saying that Galactus > Odin directly debunks the statement of him being omnipotent, as it's impossible to be omnipotent+.

Being omnipotent+ is as logical as being infinite+, that is, complete and utter nonsense. Except I wasn't being serious, and you are. Think about it.

But in conclusion, you need to prove that the 'countless leaves' are in fact intended in the context you're intepreting them as. And prove that the universe are infinitely large while you're at it.

Hax:

When did I ever say that he's immune to everything without limits? You seem to be trying to take my arguments out of context in order to apply the only fallacy that you seem to know, that being the No Limits Fallacy. I actually said this;

This directly debunks you calling me on a 'NLF', because I directly say what these resistances and immunities scale to, or, to put it simply, I put a limit on them. So how is this at all a No Limits Fallacy? Not too sure there, bud.

Yes you limted them to universal...Which doesn't mean anything because according to you the universes in Overlord are limitless or infinitely large.

So you limited them to something that is limitless. And that isn't an NLF?

As far as negative energy goes, it's exactly what it sounds like. Negative energy. Evil, bad, dark energy. Negative energy. It's simply Ainz' general aura and air about him.

Yeah I get what negative energy is, but how is negative energy type damage from normal damage in terms of consequences is what I was asking you.

As far as Death and Cry of the Banshee, yes, Cry of the Banshee, while amped with TGOALID to neg Shalltear's instant death spell immunity, was able to kill her, her homunculis, and everything around them, all of whom scale to that vastly above universal baseline, as I stated before, which you have failed to debunk.

You haven't proven anyone Overlord is universal

Also, not too sure about Marvel scaling, but we have seen Galactus bleed a few times, so if he's not truly something that can bleed or has organs, then why would he bleed?

Arguably part of his outer guise, because his true form is just pure cosmic energy:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Silver Surfer vol.2 #10

Are you being serious? Did you just not read the third line? That was not a metaphor. Are you being serious? If you're gonna be dishonest, at least try and cut out the part that directly debunks your claim of it being a metaphor. So, you trying to prove that it's a metaphor when it's directly stated to not be a metaphor is wild to me.

Are you actually myopic or pretending? Did you somehow miss that that was the very first thing I addressed in my counter?

No Caption Provided

So instead of making random appeals to incredulity fallacies, how about you actually address the reason for that statement before spending an entire para not doing so?

You also have to realize that it's not just making it impossible to breathe air. It's literally called 'dead air', and anyone who breathes it would die.

Or it's just transmutation that corrodes the air and everything it touches and the dead air is just a hyperbole? And the statement stating it isn't a metaphor is also a hyperbole meant to hype the attack up?

You're, once again, using a Hitchen's Razor. You have no evidence to prove what is literally stated to be not a metaphor.

Other than the fact that it quite literally on page/pabel/screen did absolutely nothing other than offensive matter disintegration/transmutation? Which wildly contradicts the statements which objectively and deductivelt imply that they were all hyperboles to hype up Ainz's best ability?

As far as him being a natural force of the universe, a metamorphosed embodiment of a cosmos, an intrinsic element of reality, and an equal of Death itself, my response is...so? He can still die. He can still be killed with enough power, and I've already shown you Ainz being able to destroy beings that are high above Galactus in terms of power.

No you haven't. Since you haven't proved that anyone in Overlord is universal. Ainz has direct antifeats that refute any notion of him being universal. TGOALID, something you claim is universal is quite literally, on panel, not universal:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Overlord chapter 14

Just screams 'universal +' doesn't it?

This scan doesn't really do anything. I've already proven that Ainz is more than fast enough to dodge Galactus' eye lasers, through the infinite scaling you failed to debunk.

Addressed

Ainz not only has time stop magic of his own, but he has counter-measures for time stop magic.

What feats does the stuff he resisted have?

Ainz has spells to deal with this as well, should Galactus hide behind intangibility.

  • Astral Smite: A 8th tier spell. It is an attack that is effective against Ethereal beings. This also counts against beings, who are temporarily Ethereal

Astral smite? Sounds like a soul attack. Besides and yet again, what feats does it have?

This is irrelevant. Ainz has magics that I've already listed earlier that can negate resurrection on a physical, astral, and mental level. Unless you can show me a scan of Galactus coming back after being destroyed on these three levels, while also having his regen blocked, Ainz can kill him.

Again, what feats does this have to suggest it can do anything at all to Galactus at all?

Conclusion

I have proven quite a few things in my post:

  • That Sebas can and has used hyperboles. Therefore the argument that he is robotically liyeral goes down the drain
  • That Sebas cannot have possibly kmown that the sky was infinitely large without having infinitely fast, which has no basis othet than his own statement so it would circular logic to use that.
  • That being endless does not mean being infinite. So even if Sebas somehow literally meant 'without an end' it still does not objectively make the 6th layer infinitely large.
  • That being infinitely fast would make most people in the verse infinitely fast via speed scaling.
  • That Ainz has on panel and defined feats that debunk.him being infinitely fast
  • That there are multiple contexts and interpretations (including it being a hyperbole) to the 'countless leaves' statement and that my opponent has not proved that the context he interprets it as is what the statement was intended to be or actually meant.
  • That Galactus still oneshots with his on panel concrete feats against headcanon wank.
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#46 Posted by Streak619 (7543 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio

inb4 we start seeing different dictionary definitions for ”infinite”

Nice post tho, from what I’ve read so far.

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#48 Posted by DeathHero61 (18686 posts) - - Show Bio

inb4 we start seeing different dictionary definitions for ”infinite”

Nice post tho, from what I’ve read so far.

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#49 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16272 posts) - - Show Bio

This is going to be a lot of extrapolation and NLFs...

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#50 Posted by ourmanuel (10575 posts) - - Show Bio