Cartoon/Novel/Video Game Tourney Round 1: Scarlet_Wiccan vs tometheawesome123 (Open For Votes)

Avatar image for shade545
Shade545

1759

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1  Edited By Shade545

Scarlet_Wiccan

No Caption Provided

Characters:

  • Composite Cartoon Invisible Woman (4)
  • Composite Cartoon Storm (3)

Perks:

  • Ear Pieces (1)
  • 20 Minutes of Prep (3)
  • Basic Knowledge (3)
  • Decent Teamwork (3)
  • Morals Off (6)

Vs

tometheawesome123

Characters:

Composite Albus Dumbledore (Novel and movie) (1)

Avatar Aang (3)

Mandarin (Armored Adventures) (4)

Perks:

Speed equalized (8)

20 min prep (3)

Choose battlefield (4)

Rules

  • 8 points for characters
  • 15 Points for perks
  • As mentioned, only Cartoon, Video Game, and Novel characters are allowed. Characters from Anime/Manga, Comics, and LA are not allowed. Tie in feats from banned media are allowed however as long as its based on the character from one of the three formats allowed in this tourney
  • No time manipulation
  • No BFR
  • No reality warping
  • No space manipulation
  • Hax will be dealt with on a case by case basis
  • intangibility only allowed for 5 seconds
  • Summon limited to 30 and can not be above 2 pointers
  • Cloning is limited to 5
  • No insta kill attacks
  • No soul attacks
  • TP and TK is not directly allowed on the opponents team

Battlefield

TBD

Avatar image for shade545
Shade545

1759

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@tomtheawesome123: Ok, I'll have my post up soon.

Do you have a specific battlefield in mind?

Avatar image for psi-bite234
psi-bite234

841

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

TAEP

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Team Unseen Storm

No Caption Provided

Susan Storm The Invisible Woman

Intro

Susan went up into space with her brother Johnny, Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, and Victor von Doom. They were bombarded with cosmic radiation and given powers. Sue gained the ability to turn invisible and can psionically project invisible force fields for a variety of defensive and offensive purposes.

Powers and Feats

No Caption Provided

Ororo Munroe aka Storm

Intro

Ororo Munroe, also known as Storm, is a mutant and member of the X-Men. She comes from Africa.

Storm can manipulate the weather in a variety of ways. The nature of her powers grant her control over wind, rain, lightning, hurricanes, ice and heat.

Powers and Feats:

The Battle

Perks:

  • Ear Pieces - Sue and Storm will be able to communicate even if separated
  • 20 Minutes of Prep - During this time my team will formulate a battle plan, more on this later.
  • Basic Knowledge - My team gets basic knowledge on the opposing team's capabilities.
  • Decent Teamwork - Sue and Storm will work together and come up with the battle strategy I'll explain later given their combat experience and experience working together with their respective teams.
  • Morals Off - My team won't hold back and will go for the kill from the start.

Battle Strategy:

1. During the 20 Minutes of Prep Storm summons heavy rain over the entire battlefield enough to soak it in at least ankle-deep water.

2. As soon as the battle starts Sue and Storm will fly above ground level while Sue makes them both invisible.

3. Storm will then start spamming lightning, electrocuting everyone in the water on the battlefield.

4. If anyone should survive the electrocution they won't locate the invisible Sue and Storm before they get directly hit with rapid lightning bolts or cut to ribbons by Sue's invisible force blades.

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8  Edited By tomtheawesome123
Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9  Edited By tomtheawesome123

@shade545: What is the limit on fodder on our side if we TP'd them to our side? (Not opponent's team but the battlefield)

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for eri123
eri123

11452

Forum Posts

187

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11  Edited By eri123  Online

T4V

Avatar image for shade545
Shade545

1759

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for geekryan
geekryan

10118

Forum Posts

43

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

T4V

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@shade545: Hey I think I made a mistake.

You wrote

Avatar Aang (4)

Mandarin (Armored Adventures) (3)

When it is the other way around. Mandarin is 4 points, Aang is 3 points hahaha sorry I made a tiny typo.

My post will be up soon.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@shade545: Question, does mind read count as TP directly on the opponent's team?

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16  Edited By tomtheawesome123

@shade545: I have finished my post but I want to have a question answered in addition to the ones I asked above.

What constitutes as "BFR"? The battlefield I have chosen is a military base on earth. does it count as BFR if I move an opponent to another continent or out of space? Or is it only BFR if it is like outside of the universe?

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17  Edited By tomtheawesome123

Preface to my post

Since speed is equalized to Albus Dumbledore (The slowest here). I am only going to focus on everything else

The Mandarin

No Caption Provided

Strength and Durability

Physically fights with Tony Stark and does relatively fine. Later on in the video stomps Tony but only due to his hax not his physical stats.

Tony in this suit was able to move this railway track and with great effort stop a 4 cabin train.

This also doubles as a durability feat for Tony Stark since he technically was getting smashed into by the train moving at high speed and he even managed to penetrate into the train.

Mandarin contending with Tony and doing fine physically proves his class of strength and durability. Furthermore it is important to note that the scan of Tony stopping the train was when he first tried his armor and wasn't used to it. Furthermore Mandari nhas gotten upgrades which contended with Tony's more superior suits than the one used in episode 1.

The Makluan Rings

These rings offer the Mandarin a very diverse arsenal that can contend with many situations. Furthermore the rings amp themselves as well. This means that the Mandarin is capable of more than some of the feats displayed due to said feats taking place before he achieved all 10 rings.

Purple Ring (Teleportation and Energy Manipulation):

Teleports Shield's Helicarrier and all its passengers into another dimension . This proves he can use this ability on other people.

Teleports himself .

Teleports specific people even without a general vessel holding them like a helicarrier.

Green Ring (Enhanced Energy Manipulation):

This ring is just a ring that enhances the Purple Ring's Energy Manipulation. It has no ability of its own, it just enhances the Purple Ring's Energy Manipulation. If I wrote Armored Adventures I would not have Purple Ring have 2 abilities and instead have Teleportation for the Purple and Energy for the green. But here we are.

Energy manipulation allows him to shield himself. The shields are strong enough to take a barrage of beams from Shield robots . I will explain how impressive this is later on.

Easily explodes dozens of Shield machinery. This shows his general destructive capacity when he isn't even pushing himself.

Creates a gravitational vortex which Shield's Helicarrier and other vehicles cannot escape from.

Blue, Red and Yellow (Water, Fire and Ice Manipulation):

Water manipulation allows him to trap someone inside water and crush them. Was able to restrain Iron man even when only amped by 2 rings . Tony had to divert all his power to his motors in order to break out. And this was when Mandarin only had 3 rings so the Water ring only had 2 amps. The rings amp each other so a 10 ring mandarin would have vastly more power for each ring.

Can shoot fire

Ice Manipulation allows him to freeze a giant dragon from the inside out (Starts at 1:16)

Orange Ring (Matter manipulation):

Mandarin de-materializes a weapon that is made to specifically counter and short circuit the Makluan Rings. Keep in mind that he materializes it after Howard pulls the triggerwhich means he even dematerialized the beam which fires out of the weapon which was specifically designed to counter the rings.

Crimson Ring (Psionics):

Able to mind control Tony Stark though he was able to break out of it later through will power. Can be used against NPCs in the battlefield but not the other team.

Increases his senses. Can detect Pepper in her invisible Stealth Mode, notice that Mandarin is able to detect her before she starts talking. He starts teleporting behind her before she starts talking. And before that he aims in her general direction way before she began talking which means he didn't locate her through noise.

At 5:30 he is able to locate and teleport to Tony Stark despite being in another country at the time. Tony even remarks "How did you find us?", Mandarin replies with "I know all Stark!". Context here is that he was in Latveria and god stomped by Dr Doom. He then bailed and teleport himself to the Armory. The Armory is where Tony keeps his suits and is a secret location which was only known by him, Pepper and James at the time. This was no accidental teleportation where Mandarin just by random chance teleported to Tony's exact location coincidentally. He purposely did this to ask Tony for help in defeating Dr Doom.

Although it is not explicitly stated that him locating Tony Stark from across countries and locating an invisible Pepper is due to the Crimson Ring, it can be logically concluded since the Crimson Ring not only amps his Psionic abilities but grants him hidden knowledge . Furthermore Mandarin even states in that conversation that if he had another ring the 7th ring would be amped enough that he would be able to "uncover the truth". In fact when he get all 10 rings it appears the Crimson Ring which reveals hidden knowledge is amped enough that he can see every molecule and electron. However his weakness appears to be that he has to make a conscious effort to locate specific things and its not really passive since Howard Stark was able to shoot him after this monologue about seeing every particle.

Nevertheless, he has shown to be able to locate invisible enemies and people in secret locations across vast distances so whether it is due to the Crimson Ring, Green Ring or Purple Ring it doesn't matter, what matters is he is capable of it.

White Ring (Wind and enhanced speed which is irrelevant for speed equalized):

Can create a miniature tornado which then expands, able to knock away war machine and Mark 2 Ironman who is superior to the Mark 1 ironman in episode 1 which stopped the train.

Able to stop a huge dust storm.

Black (Dark Force Manipulation):

This ring doesn't really have many feats but it has one key feat. It is the most powerful of all the rings.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x10ytmj , I couldnt find a youtube link of the episode in english sorry.

at 19:00 Tony and Mandarin with 8 rings was getting stomped by Dr Doom who only had the 9th ring. He could also create shields to no sell Tony's rockets.

Pink Ring

Featless but amps the other rings

Avatar Aang

No Caption Provided

Elemental Mastery

Able to use seismic sense to detect things through vibrations in the ground. In the video he also displays the ability to tunnel.

With air manipulation blasts apart an incoming projectile larger than his flying bison. It is important to note that the size of the boulder is actually impressive since a rock sphere is more dense than buildings which are designed to have hollow spaces inside for rooms. So although the size of the boulder is a little lackluster compared to characters in the 3 pointer range (10 - 20 story buildings) it more then makes up for it by the virtue its density by not having hollow insides.

Earth manipulation allows him to manipulate a huge pillar of earth.

Can control water.

Dumbledore

No Caption Provided

Magical Mastery

Teleports himself and Harry to another location.

Can cover a large area in mist.

“Well, then, you must get on and do it, my dear boy,” said Dumbledore softly.

There was silence. Harry stood imprisoned within his own invisible, paralyzed body, staring at the two of them, his ears straining to hear sounds of the Death Eaters’ distant fight, and in front of him, Draco Malfoy did nothing but stare at Albus Dumbledore, who, incredibly, smiled.

(Half Blood Prince page 585)

Above quote shows Dumbledore paralyzing Harry Potter who was invisible at the time without a wand or an incantation. Harry Potter is a very remarkable wizard able to cast a corporeal Patronus during his 3rd year which is something considered difficult even by experienced wizards. This was Harry Potter during 6th year being easily immobilized by Dumbledore. Here is a link to Half blood Prince http://www.culamdi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/J.K.-Rowling-HP-6-Harry-Potter-and-the-Half-Blood-Prince.pdf if you want a reference.

“And it showed your friend Ron himself as head boy.”

“How did you know —?”

“I don’t need a cloak to become invisible,” said Dumbledore gently. “Now, can you think what the Mirror of Erised shows us all?” Harry shook his head.

(Philosopher's Stone )

Above quote shows he can become invisible without a cloak

Now Albus Dumbledore without explanation is portrayed and accepted by anyone who has read Harry Potter or even watched the movies to be one of the greatest wizards in the entire verse. His knowledge and mastery would logically exceed characters like Hermione Granger and Harry Potter. It is reasonable to assume that he is able to replicate feats of obviously inferior characters due to:

1. Being considered one of the greatest wizards.

2. Having attended the same school as Harry and Hermione and being considered one of the most brilliant students to have ever attended that school, has won numerous awards in various fields of magic which said inferior characters have not. Since this is a composite version of Dumbledore we cannot even assume that "Dumbledore probably forgot everything he learnt whilst attending Hogwarts." because composite includes Dumbledore's capabilities when he attended Hogwarts. Which means he would know all the spells Hogwarts students know with rare exceptions including the Marauder's map and the Severing Curse. But those were spells that were invented outside the Hogwarts curriculum. He won't use stuff like the 3 unforgivable curses though since that is against his morals.

3. He is the headmaster of the school which taught most of the characters in the series everything they knew about magic.

Now to continue with my post:

“Come here, boy,” said Moody gruffly, beckoning Harry toward him with his wand. “I need to Disillusion you.”

“You need to what?” said Harry nervously.

“Disillusionment Charm,” said Moody, raising his wand. “Lupin says you’ve got an Invisibility Cloak, but it won’t stay on while we’re flying; this’ll disguise you better. Here you go —” He rapped Harry hard on the top of the head and Harry felt a curious sensation as though Moody had just smashed an egg there; cold trickles seemed to be running down his body from the point the wand had struck.

“Nice one, Mad-Eye,” said Tonks appreciatively, staring at Harry’s midriff. Harry looked down at his body, or rather, what had been his body, for it didn’t look anything like his anymore. It was not invisible; it had simply taken on the exact color and texture of the kitchen unit behind him. He seemed to have become a human chameleon.

(Order of the Phoenix page 54)

Here is the link for Order of the Phoenix https://www.missskirtich.com/uploads/2/3/3/7/23374820/5_-_harry_potter_and_the_order_of_the_phoenix_chapter_37.pdf

Now Alastor Moody was the one who cast the Disillusionment Charm on Harry Potter, Dumbledore should be able to do this especially when he literally has used the same charm on himself during Philosopher's Stone when he snuck up on Harry viewing the Mirror of Erised. It is literally the same charm, Dumbledore hasn't used it on someone else but you would be hard pressed to find a reason why he can't make other people invisible.

If you want more proof then:

“If we’re staying, we should put some protective enchantments around the

place,” she replied, and raising her wand, she began to walk in a wide circle

around Harry and Ron, murmuring incantations as she went. Harry saw little

disturbances in the surrounding air: It was as if Hermione had cast a heat

haze upon their clearing.

“Salvio Hexia . . . Protego Totalum . . . Repello Muggletum . . . Muffliato . . . You

could get out the tent, Harry . . . ”

Hermione is able to cast various protective charms in an area which would encompass a tent the three main characters will summon.

“You cast the Muffliato charm over us, right?” he whispered to Hermione.

“I did everything,” she whispered back, “Muffliato, Muggle-Repelling and

Disillusionment Charms, all of it. They shouldn’t be able to hear or see us,

whoever they are.”

It is later revealed that one of the protective charms was the Disillusionment charm. The quotes above are from Deathly hallows as well btw. So if Hermione can Disillusion an entire area encompassing a tent Albus would be able to Disillusion 3 people.

If you want even more proof then Hermione herself (who did the feat I posted above of disillusioning an entire area around a tent) praises Dumbledore's prowess at the charm in Deathly Hallows:

“Harry,” said Hermione again, but he was busy undoing the pouch around

his neck, his fingers shaking hard.

“Read it,” he told her, pushing his mother’s letter into her hand. “Read it!

Dumbledore had the Cloak, Hermione! Why else would he want it? He didn’t

need a Cloak, he could perform a Disillusionment Charm so powerful that he

made himself completely invisible without one!”

Dumbledore can use Sonorus which amplifies his voice. https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Amplifying_Charm . In the wiki page there is a picture of Albus using it.

he would also be able to use the counter-charm Quietus otherwise his voice would stay loud indefinitely. This is shown in Goblet of fire when Ludo Bagman uses Sonorus and then deactivates it by using Quietus. Dumbledore would also have to know Quietus or else his voice cant return to normal.

Ludo's use of Goblet of Fire amps his voice to the point it echoes over an entire stadium.

“Ready when you are, Ludo,” said Fudge comfortably.

Ludo whipped out his wand, directed it at his own throat, and said “Sonorus!” and then spoke over the roar of sound that was now filling the packed stadium; his voice echoed over them, booming into every corner of the stands.

“Ladies and gentlemen . . . welcome! Welcome to the final of the four hundred and twenty-second Quidditch World Cup!”

( Goblet of Fire )

Ludo then uses Quietus to return his voice to normal.

At last, when the Irish team had left the box to perform another lap of honor on their brooms (Aidan Lynch on the back of Connolly’s, clutching hard around his waist and still grinning in a bemused sort of way), Bagman pointed his wand at his throat and muttered, “Quietus.” “They’ll be talking about this one for years,” he said hoarsely,

So what does this show? It shows that the Quietus charm when performed by an inferior wizard is able to return a voice that boomed over an entire stadium into a normal voice. This means if Albus uses the Quietening charm on the team they will be really really difficult to hear. If he uses Quietening + Disillusion they are impossible to see and it would take super hearing to even hear them.

It is important to note that Sonorus and Quietus doesn't just affect the voice. It would logically be able to effect things like footsteps since these charms affect things like the radio (Chapter 16 of Half blood prince, Molly Weasley uses Sonorus on the radio and would logically use Quietus later) which produces sound using magnets and electrical signals. The charms works on sound produced by the vibration of vocal cords and by magnets in a radio. There is no reason they can't work on footsteps and breathing.

This is all I am going to write for now. Dumbledore is capable of more things but this is my initial post.

Initial Thoughts and Counters

Storm

Here are multiple instances where Storm's lightning knocks back or damages Sentinels

I am skeptical about these feats against Sentinels. How resistant are these machines against electricity? Are they like normal machines that are naturally susceptible to electricity?

The 1st and 3rd scan in the imgur show her doing negligible damage from what is shown, how impressive is knocking back a Sentinel?

The 2nd scan shows her electrocuting and causing noticeable hampering to the Sentinel. However the sentinel has a hole and was already damaged which makes me question whether the Sentinel was hampered due to its circuitry being exposed to direct electricity through the hole or because her lightning is that damaging.

Destroyes a metal room/box with bio-electricity

The "room" or box was quite small. With this level of destructive capability she will never be able to bypass Mandarin's shields.

Mandarin's shields if you remember are able to tank attacks from dozens of SHIELD vehicles.

One of them was able to obliterate a metal drone.

The drones are much bigger than Pepper which means they are much bigger than a human. More so than the metal box. You can see Pepper is tiny compared to the drones.

Summons a lightning bolt that causes an explosion on the ground

Did it crater the ground though? Because all I see is the electricity spreading out. Doesn't mean it has enough power to go through Mandarin's shields.

Sucks a man into the sky with a wind funnel

Creates a wind vortex that knocks away cars and knocks a sentinel back

Blows away two helicopters.

Blows apart a concrete wall and sucks up people in a tornado

Lifts a building

I know this is technically not a wind manipulation feat but it fulfills the same purpose. Mandarin can suck in far more than Storm can. Notice the helicarrier being sucked in.

Mandarin can also make any form of wind manipulation by Storm disappear since he has done so with a dust storm with far grander scale than what you have posted. And this was only with 8 rings.

Flash freezes Nimrod

Nimrod looks tiny in comparison to what Mandarin has frozen from the inside-out with only 5 rings. Keep in mind that dragon was frozen inside and out. Did Storm freeze Nimrod from the inside too or was it just the surface of his body?

Razor hail

Heavy rain

These can all be deflected by Aang who can manipulate Ice and water.

Mandarin can do the same but has much grander feats which I have shown in his section.

Susan Storm

Here are two instances where Sue makes multiple people invisible.

Here are two times Sue could make the entire Fanticar invisible.

I know the point of these scans were to prove that Susan and Storm can become invisible together. However they do not show that Susan can maintain invisibility on others when they are not nearby and they do not show that Susan can maintain this invisibility even when unconscious.

It is established in the Harry Potter universe that the disillusionment charm (Which Dumbledore via common sense and feats of making himself invisible has mastered to a greater extent than all ordinary wizards) is active even when the caster is unconcious and the original caster is a large distance away.

“Mr. Lovegood,” Hermione began again, “We all know that there are such

things as Invisibility Cloaks. They are rare, but they exist. But—”

“Ah, but the Third Hallows is true Cloak of Invisibility, Miss Granger! I

mean to say, it is not a traveling cloak imbued with a Disillusionment Charm,

or carrying a Bedazzling Hex or else woven from Demiguise hair, which will

hide one initially but fade with the years until it turns opaque. We are talking

about a cloak that really and truly renders the wearer completely invisible, and

endures eternally, giving constant and impenetrable concealment, no matter

what spells are cast at it. How many cloaks have you ever seen like that, Miss

Granger?”

(Deathly Hallows page 353 to 354 )

So the conversation here is talking about Invisibility cloaks, cloaks that make what they cover invisible. It is explained by a character called Xenophilius Lovegood (Mr Lovegood) that Invisibility Cloaks can be made in many ways. One of them is a normal cloak imbued with the Disillusionment Charm, the one used by Dumbledore to make himself invisible. This means the same charm which Dumbledore has used can last for years until they wear out. And they can be imbued on a cloak which can be sold and used even when the original maker of the invisibility cloak and the original caster of the charm is not at the same location as the person who bought and used the cloak.

It makes sense that anything imbued with the Disillusionment charm would keep its invisibility even when the caster is unconscious. Since it wouldn't make sense for someone to use an invisibility cloak and have it wear off the moment the caster goes to sleep.

So if Albus uses Disillusionment charm on himself and his team mates they stay invisible even if Albus is K'Od. They stay invisible even when Albus isn't there. Can you say the same for Susan?

So I would argue that Albus' invisibility is more powerful than Susan's since it can operate over vast distances and can last for years. And it works even when he is unconcious.

Contains an explosion that destroyed a 20+ story building.

She passes out after this by the way. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xm43l (20:23)

Furthermore her forcefield was placed quite a bit away from the initial ground zero of the explosion. Meaning the explosive force the forcefield had to endure would be drastically weaker than if the forcefields were inside the building. Explosions are known to follow the inverse square law meaning the damage inflicted on anything hit by the explosion exponentially decreases the further you are away. So much so that even a couple of meter distance can lead to drastic results.

An example would be real life house explosions where explosions that are building level can't kill regular humans even when they are outside the building.

https://youtu.be/z5rkSKT9EQ4?t=87 This video shows a fireman really close to an explosion that destroyed a house tanking it as well as the camera man there. It is explained by the video that 5 people were sent to the hospital and the person with the worse injuries suffered a broken leg. Not even the fireman right next to the house died from the house explosion.

Of course, the house explosion was not as impressive as the one in your scan. The explosion I showed was 2 story building level instead of 20 story building level. But the point here is that explosions can have drastically weaker damage potential if you are a couple of meters away. The fireman even at near point blank range to the house survived with at worst a broken leg even when the explosion was building level.

The forcefield was placed further from the building than the fireman in the youtube video I linked. The building itself may be bigger but if we are being honest it won't be able to hold up against the Mandarin's attacks. The 20 story building feat is at best 10 times stronger than the 2 story house explosion feat that broke the leg of a fireman (And the fireman was very close, near point blank to the building unlike the forcefield). That is not enough durability to withstand Mandarin's abilities which I have shown. It is not even enough withstand Aang hurling a massive rock and Susan and the team.

Shields from lava.

Holds back a lot of water while also holding a lot of rocks in the air.

Protects a large building from giant worms

Creates a large force field that blocks streaks of lightning

Mandarin's shields have protected himself from far more from what I have posted.

Contains a large amount of Unstable Molecules that can disintegrate matter.

In the scan the blue substance doesn't even disintegrate the floor. Feats for unstable molecules?

Would the forcefields be able to defend against Mandarin's Orange ring acid mist which can disintegrate matter, even Tony's armor? Keep in mind that armor is Mark 2 and is superior to the episode 1 armor which tanked a crash with a train without any visible dents. The armor itself told Tony that "Hull breach is imminent".

These feats should prove that Sue's force field should be able to handle any attacks that's not above the Tourney's limit.

This is not true even if we don't scrutinize Susan's 20+ story feat. The tourney allows 30 story damage potential which will go right through Susan's forcefields even if we take the 20+ story feat at face value and ignore the inverse square law.

Furthermore Susan passed out after that anyways.

Sue expands her force field destroying metal cuffs and a room

Not as good as what Mandarin or Aang has done. Aang in particular pulverized a boulder larger that than room, and that boulder wasn't hollow in the inside like a room.

Here are three instances where Sue's force blades cut clean through metal.

Not through Mandarin's shields though.

Sue can suffocate her opponents by covering their heads in airtight force bubbles.

This is actually an interesting point. This is fairly hax. Mandarin and Aang can both generate air though. Albus can even use the bubble-head charm which is taught at Hogwarts to be able to breathe.

Nevertheless Mandarin can teleport himself and his team mates, Albus can teleport by himself and can teleport his teammates as well.

Cuts a jet in two.

Still not going through Mandarin's shields.

A morals of Sue owning the rest of the Fantastic Four

This proves nothing unless there showings for the rest of the Fantastic Four.

My 20 minutes of prep and the Battle plan.

The first step of the prep doesn't really do much but I am going to write it anyways since this is something the characters would do.

1. Mandarin uses Crimson Ring to Mind control the US soldiers present at the base. This won't matter since I believe they are going to be electrocuted at the beginning but I just added here for completeness. .

2. Albus and Mandarin use TP on each other so they understand the team's abilities. Albus makes everyone invisible. And uses Quietus to make everyone really difficult to hear.

3. Mandarin gathers explosives like C4, TNT or claymores from the US base. Aang creates earth constructs, whether they are hollow earth balls or whatever. These constructs are meant to hold the explosive payloads. Mandarin can teleport these explosive payloads to your team for a point blank explosive attack. This means the explosives will be teleported through Susan's force fields. Your team would need top notch durability to survive this .

4. Mandarin and Aang fly up. Albus follows either by holding on to Mandarin or Aang. Or if he doesn't like team work (which is uncharacteristic). Albus fills the battlefield with mist.

5. Now that they are invisible they can proceed with the fight with a strategic advantage.

Storm and Susan's Battle plan

1. During the 20 Minutes of Prep Storm summons heavy rain over the entire battlefield enough to soak it in at least ankle-deep water.

2. As soon as the battle starts Sue and Storm will fly above ground level while Sue makes them both invisible.

3. Storm will then start spamming lightning, electrocuting everyone in the water on the battlefield.

4. If anyone should survive the electrocution they won't locate the invisible Sue and Storm before they get directly hit with rapid lightning bolts or cut to ribbons by Sue's invisible force blades.

I actually have a curious question here, when Storm summons rain is it pure water rain or rain with metal impurities? Because water only conducts electricity when there are metal impurities in the water. Pure water does not conduct electricity. The only way this plan can even make sense on a fundamental level is if storm can somehow summon rain with metal inside the water. This wouldn't make sense since her power is to manipulate natural weather which is weird if it somehow includes metal.

I understand Storm summoning clouds made out of water vapor but it doesn't make sense to me that she can summon clouds along with the metal inside required to create rain water with metal impurities which can conduct electricity.

You can clear this up by showing a scan of Storm summoning rain, then conducting electricity through that rain water.

However, if we assume that this plan actually happens the way you wrote it my team is also invisible and is able to shield themselves from your electrical barrage. Aang can simply manipulate the water so it is no longer touching them. The Mandarin can shield himself and Albus teleports away.

Regardless my team is invisible and in the air anyways since that is logically the best way to start in the battlefield. The water won't reach the team. Sue's invisible force blades do not have the cutting power to go through defenses if Mandarin uses his shields, furthermore Mandarin is able to detect Sue's projectiles and invisible people like your team. Can you really say the same for your team? Can your team detect the invisible?

General strategies which will be used

These are just the general thoughts I have for this battle.

  • If neither Susan nor Storm can detect invisible enemies they are in for a rough battle since Mandarin will detect the invisible. Albus will immediately be able to read Mandarin's mind to know the location of your team in real time.
  • If Albus gets close he will paralyze your team and can even put your team to sleep (Chapter 27 Goblet of Fire. He does this to multiple people to set up the Tri Wizard tournament challenge).
  • Mandarin can bypass Susan's forcefields through sheer power and so can Aang from what you have shown.
  • Mandarin can nullify Storm's wind manipulation, Aang can redirect Susan's rain. Mandarin can redirect Susan's rain with his water manipulation. They can both do the same to hail since they each have ice manipulation
  • Mandarin's shields are too strong, I doubt your team can go through them.
  • Mandarin can completely separate your team. He can teleport Susan or Storm to the other side of the battlefield. He won't remove her from the battlefield just to the other side. Since Susan and Storm are equalized to Albus speed (human speed) it will take them too long to regroup. This also means Mandarin can teleport Storm outside Susan's forcefield for a one hit KO through either a punch (You have not shown Storm's durability feats against Mandarin who can match Tony Stark) or a freeze.
  • Mandarin can teleport his team mates and himself to avoid attacks or reach strategic positions. The antithesis can be said for your team where he can teleport your team to a disadvantageous position. So for example Mandarin can teleport Albus so that he paralyzes your team and puts them to sleep.
  • The explosives that are going to be teleported are really hard to avoid if you have human speed and no teleportation.
  • My team can do some really interesting mind games. For example the team is invisible and really quiet and hard to hear. The mist underneath can serve as a distraction for Susan and Storm, Storm may try to blow it away but her powers can be nullified by Mandarin. So Storm and Susan can be distracted and confused due to their lack of full knowledge on the team.
Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@scarlet_wiccan: I did a little edit to my post. Just added pictures and 2 more paragraphs.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@psi-bite234: post done

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@scarlet_wiccan: Fixed an error in my post where I claimed Albus uses invisibility in Crimes of Grindelwald.

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

Rebuttal

I am skeptical about these feats against Sentinels. How resistant are these machines against electricity? Are they like normal machines that are naturally susceptible to electricity?

Electricity doesn't have any extra effectiveness against Sentinels. The gifs were meant to show that Storm can knock them back and damage them not that her electricity can short circuit them.

The 1st and 3rd scan in the imgur show her doing negligible damage from what is shown, how impressive is knocking back a Sentinel?

Sentinels are three stories tall and are built to fight superhumans of various capabilities so it's pretty impressive.

The 2nd scan shows her electrocuting and causing noticeable hampering to the Sentinel. However the sentinel has a hole and was already damaged which makes me question whether the Sentinel was hampered due to its circuitry being exposed to direct electricity through the hole or because her lightning is that damaging.

Storm's lightning creates the hole in it's chest and it was not already damaged.

The "room" or box was quite small. With this level of destructive capability she will never be able to bypass Mandarin's shields.

Did it crater the ground though? Because all I see is the electricity spreading out. Doesn't mean it has enough power to go through Mandarin's shields.

If Storm summons a lightning bolt from the sky, Mandarin won't be able to react to it, given that lightning moves at about 220, 000, 000 miles per hour and you also haven't shown any feats of Mandarin tanking any electrical attacks.

I know the point of these scans were to prove that Susan and Storm can become invisible together. However they do not show that Susan can maintain invisibility on others when they are not nearby and they do not show that Susan can maintain this invisibility even when unconscious.

You are correct here Susan can't maintain her invisibility on others when they're out of her vicinity or when she's unconscious.

Sue and Storm will try to stay together during the battle so Sue doesn't need to make Storm invisible if she's far away.

So the conversation here is talking about Invisibility cloaks, cloaks that make what they cover invisible. It is explained by a character called Xenophilius Lovegood (Mr Lovegood) that Invisibility Cloaks can be made in many ways. One of them is a normal cloak imbued with the Disillusionment Charm, the one used by Dumbledore to make himself invisible. This means the same charm which Dumbledore has used can last for years until they wear out. And they can be imbued on a cloak which can be sold and used even when the original maker of the invisibility cloak and the original caster of the charm is not at the same location as the person who bought and used the cloak.

It makes sense that anything imbued with the Disillusionment charm would keep its invisibility even when the caster is unconscious. Since it wouldn't make sense for someone to use an invisibility cloak and have it wear off the moment the caster goes to sleep.

So if Albus uses Disillusionment charm on himself and his team mates they stay invisible even if Albus is K'Od. They stay invisible even when Albus isn't there. Can you say the same for Susan?

So I would argue that Albus' invisibility is more powerful than Susan's since it can operate over vast distances and can last for years. And it works even when he is unconcious.

-The cartoons barely touched on how powerful Sue can be with her invisibility/light bending or the other capabilities of the ability, so I kinda agree that Albus' invisibility seems more powerful and effective, but given that the battlefield will be filled with water and as soon as the battle starts the water will be electrically charged, killing your team instantly.

The forcefield was placed further from the building than the fireman in the youtube video I linked. The building itself may be bigger but if we are being honest it won't be able to hold up against the Mandarin's attacks. The 20 story building feat is at best 10 times stronger than the 2 story house explosion feat that broke the leg of a fireman (And the fireman was very close, near point blank to the building unlike the forcefield). That is not enough durability to withstand Mandarin's abilities which I have shown. It is not even enough withstand Aang hurling a massive rock and Susan and the team.

I didn't really want to scale Sue's force field with in-universe characters like Terminus, Thing and Hulk to avoid crossing the Tourney's limits so I only used feats that didn't needed to be scaled.

3. Mandarin gathers explosives like C4, TNT or claymores from the US base. Aang creates earth constructs, whether they are hollow earth balls or whatever. These constructs are meant to hold the explosive payloads. Mandarin can teleport these explosive payloads to your team for a point blank explosive attack. This means the explosives will be teleported through Susan's force fields. Your team would need top notch durability to survive this

My characters will start of invisible and since your team doesn't have any knowledge on my team they won't know what to expect.

4. Mandarin and Aang fly up. Albus follows either by holding on to Mandarin or Aang. Or if he doesn't like team work (which is uncharacteristic). Albus fills the battlefield with mist.

It's highly unlikely that your team will all fly immediately as the battle starts since they have no knowledge on my team's capabilities. Mist will only help my team more given that the whole terrain will be electrocuted in a matter of minutes.

I actually have a curious question here, when Storm summons rain is it pure water rain or rain with metal impurities? Because water only conducts electricity when there are metal impurities in the water. Pure water does not conduct electricity. The only way this plan can even make sense on a fundamental level is if storm can somehow summon rain with metal inside the water. This wouldn't make sense since her power is to manipulate natural weather which is weird if it somehow includes metal.

I understand Storm summoning clouds made out of water vapor but it doesn't make sense to me that she can summon clouds along with the metal inside required to create rain water with metal impurities which can conduct electricity.

You can clear this up by showing a scan of Storm summoning rain, then conducting electricity through that rain water.

No Caption Provided

-In the scan above Storm summons rain that conducts Berzerker's electricity and KO's him, so that should prove that Storm's rain water can conduct electricity.

However, if we assume that this plan actually happens the way you wrote it my team is also invisible and is able to shield themselves from your electrical barrage. Aang can simply manipulate the water so it is no longer touching them. The Mandarin can shield himself and Albus teleports away.

-Like I said earlier no one should be able to react or shield themselves from lightning or even electricity in the Tourney and your team will try to find my team and won't even know that Storm can electrocute them since your team doesn't have any knowledge on mine. If your team does realise what's about to happen it'll be too late because of the speed of electric currents that is roughly the speed of light.

Regardless my team is invisible and in the air anyways since that is logically the best way to start in the battlefield. The water won't reach the team. Sue's invisible force blades do not have the cutting power to go through defenses if Mandarin uses his shields, furthermore Mandarin is able to detect Sue's projectiles and invisible people like your team. Can you really say the same for your team? Can your team detect the invisible?

Again It's highly unlikely and out of character that your team flies immediately as the battle starts. In the episode "Revenge of the Skrulls from Fantastic Four World's Greatest Heroes Sue is the only one that can see an invisible Super Skrull and later his force field daggers so yes she can see the invisible.

https://youtu.be/1UiEH-Oa-Yc. At about 8:40 Sue sees an invisible Super Skrull.

Conclusion:

I have to admit that Mandarin is pretty powerful and his versatility and power probably overcome my team in a full out battle but under these circumstances he'll go down along with the rest of your team before they can defend themselves.

Important points to remember:

1.My team starts of invisible and will immediately take their positions in the sky.

2. Your team has no knowledge on who my team is or ehat they are capable of.

3. Storm can instantly summon multiple lightning bolts in rapid succession that no one on the battlefield can react to.

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@scarlet_wiccan: Oh Scarlett Wiccan. I just noticed that I forgot to mention the distance our characters start at.

Do you have a distance in mind?

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27  Edited By tomtheawesome123

@scarlet_wiccan: My post is done, I just need you to give me a suggestion of the distance our characters start at before I post since I forgot to establish it hahaha.

@shade545: I know i have already pinged you for this but please switch the numbers of Aang and Mandarin hahaha.

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan
Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#30  Edited By tomtheawesome123

Rebuttals

Electricity doesn't have any extra effectiveness against Sentinels. The gifs were meant to show that Storm can knock them back and damage them not that her electricity can short circuit them.

I will take your word for this.

Sentinels are three stories tall and are built to fight superhumans of various capabilities so it's pretty impressive.

Do keep in mind that more would be expected in this tourney with people in the dozen tonnes.

Storm's lightning creates the hole in it's chest and it was not already damaged.

This was my bad. I apologize for misreading the scan. The way the scene cut to the Sentinel getting hit made me thought the hole was already there.

If Storm summons a lightning bolt from the sky, Mandarin won't be able to react to it, given that lightning moves at about 220, 000, 000 miles per hour and you also haven't shown any feats of Mandarin tanking any electrical attacks.

So Mandarin has a feat of tanking an electrical attack.

In this scan Mandarin unleashes an electric attack on Tony Stark. The attack initially unleashes a shockwave which knocked away Pepper and War machine from a distance. Then Mandarin and Tony get electrocuted together by Mandarin's own attack. The strength of Mandarin's electricity is pretty extreme. It is able to dent and damage Tony's armor. This is an extremely high current.

Think about it, Tony's armor is made of a very durable metal. Durable enough to survive crashing into a train in episode 1 without a visible scratch. It gets cracked and dented by this electrical attack. Mandarin's own armor doesn't get damaged here by the way. He manages to last for a couple of seconds until making a plea deal but only due to the pain. This means if Storm's lightning was equal to Mandarin's lightning at this point in the story (Something I am not willing to believe yet) Mandarin would have ample time before activating his shields.

Furthermore it is important to note that Mandarin tanked this attack point blank, he was literally touching Tony Stark and electrocuting himself with his own attack. I will explain why this is important later.

You are correct here Susan can't maintain her invisibility on others when they're out of her vicinity or when she's unconscious.

Sue and Storm will try to stay together during the battle so Sue doesn't need to make Storm invisible if she's far away.

Understood, I just wanted to clarify things.

The cartoons barely touched on how powerful Sue can be with her invisibility/light bending or the other capabilities of the ability, so I kinda agree that Albus' invisibility seems more powerful and effective, but given that the battlefield will be filled with water and as soon as the battle starts the water will be electrically charged, killing your team instantly.

I am going to talk about the water being electrically charged here. The inverse square law doesn't just apply to explosions. It also applies to electricity.

There is a misconception people think that if there is a conductor like water or metal the electricity travelling through the material doesn't lose its potency the bigger the conductor is. Most people assume that if I conjure lightning that has the voltage enough to kill an adult in water it will maintain its current potency throughout every inch of water.

However the question is, why is it that not every fish on earth get electrocuted when a random lightning bolt hits the ocean? It is due to the dreaded inverse square law.

It doesn't just apply to explosions, it actually applies to lightning as well. Even if there is water as a conductor the inverse square law still applies. At 20 feet lightning dissipates to the point where it is safe. I do not believe that Storm's lightning is as powerful as a real life lightning strike by the way. It appears to be much weaker from the scans you have shown.

The water may be electrically charged... Technically speaking. But at greater distances the charge isn't going to be enough to kill my team. Furthermore I want to explain something else.

During 20 min my prep time I have stated that my characters will fly in the air before the battle starts. I am allowed to do this as long as the distance between our characters is the same and we are in front of each other. The host has allowed me to do this.

No Caption Provided

So my team will logically be in the air before the fight starts. The electricity will not go through my team.

Even if my team starts the battlefield on the ground the electricity Storm uses will be less than negligible in damage potential since we have agreed to start 100 feet apart.

No Caption Provided

This means it is highly highly unlikely the electricity will do much damage let alone stun or kill.

I didn't really want to scale Sue's force field with in-universe characters like Terminus, Thing and Hulk to avoid crossing the Tourney's limits so I only used feats that didn't needed to be scaled.

Bad excuse, if your character is above your points then you shouldn't be using it. These are the only showings you have so the discussion will continue under the presumption that these are Susan's capabilities. Nothing more and Nothing less until proven otherwise. If you want Susan's capabilities to be viewed as more impressive then you should provide evidence of such.

My characters will start of invisible and since your team doesn't have any knowledge on my team they won't know what to expect.

They will know what to expect because when the battle starts they can't see your team. So Mandarin logically would locate the enemy team with his powers. Especially when my team is doing the same things but to a greater extent.

It's highly unlikely that your team will all fly immediately as the battle starts since they have no knowledge on my team's capabilities. Mist will only help my team more given that the whole terrain will be electrocuted in a matter of minutes.

The whole terrain will be electrocuted... Technically speaking. But the electrocution won't be that strong due to the inverse square law reducing the voltage and current to below human level.

Now it is quite likely that the team will fly actually. They don't do it after the battle starts but before during the 20 minutes of prep. Starting in the air invisible and quiet is logically the best option since people would least expect you to be invisible in the air.

-In the scan above Storm summons rain that conducts Berzerker's electricity and KO's him, so that should prove that Storm's rain water can conduct electricity.

Understood. I was just curious and making sure. However the inverse square law still applies and the lightning is not electrocuting everyone in the battlefield at once. Especially not Mandarin

-Like I said earlier no one should be able to react or shield themselves from lightning or even electricity in the Tourney and your team will try to find my team and won't even know that Storm can electrocute them since your team doesn't have any knowledge on mine. If your team does realise what's about to happen it'll be too late because of the speed of electric currents that is roughly the speed of light.

Yeah lightning is really fast but Mandarin's durability should be able to tank it even without his shields. Nevertheless during 20 min prep the team is in the air.

Again It's highly unlikely and out of character that your team flies immediately as the battle starts. In the episode "Revenge of the Skrulls from Fantastic Four World's Greatest Heroes Sue is the only one that can see an invisible Super Skrull and later his force field daggers so yes she can see the invisible.

https://youtu.be/1UiEH-Oa-Yc. At about 8:40 Sue sees an invisible Super Skrull.

I see, so at around the 17 minute mark she was able to see invisible daggers. However Mandarin can see invisible and Albus can do so too with a spell that hard counters invisibility and he can do it without saying the incantation.

https://www.meetup.com/fr-FR/TGTSNBN/messages/549601/ . Use ctrl-f and then type "revelio". It is explained in the interview by JK Rowling the author of Harry Potter that Dumbledore can see the invisible.

So that makes 2 people who can see the invisible in my team, In fact if Dumbledore uses the revelio charm (which he can according to Word of God) your team will be visible to Aang as well.

And by the way. This charm that Dumbledore uses works on Harry's invisibility cloak. Harry's invisibility cloak is a Deathly Hallow and is of much higher quality than a standard invisibility cloak. Standard invisibility cloaks as we have both agreed are above Susan's invisibility since they last for years and last when the caster of the Disillusionment charm is asleep.

So Dumbledore's Revelio charm can reveal people who use Harry's invisibility cloak which is superior to an ordinary invisibility cloak which is superior to Susan's invisibility which we both agree on. So your team can have their invisibility disabled by Albus.

So that means Aang can see your team as well. All 3 members of my team can see yours but your team only has 1 person that can see mine. I believe my team has the advantage in this department.

I have to admit that Mandarin is pretty powerful and his versatility and power probably overcome my team in a full out battle but under these circumstances he'll go down along with the rest of your team before they can defend themselves.

So we have reached mutual agreement that if Mandarin survives the electricity strategy at the beginning he is able to overcome your team all by himself? So that is one of my win conditions.

I have provided ample evidence that he will survive this. To summarize:

1. Mandarin has a feat of tanking an electrical attack. This electricity attack is point blank (meaning the inverse square law doesn't exponentially weaken the feat here) and the electricity is strong enough to damage Tony's armor which tanked a train crash in episode 1. I doubt Susan's lightning is on this level, Mandarin will surely survive long enough to activate his shields or teleport away.

2. The inverse square law prevents your strategy from working. Even lightning strikes (Which I have reason to believe are more powerful than Storm's) dissipate after 20 feet.

3. The team during 20 minute prep fly in the air which is allowed by the host of the tourney.

Keep in mind that point 3 ensures my entire team survives and point 2 even ensures that the US military base soldiers that Mandarin TPs will survive as well.

A list of things that I have proposed that my team can do that have not been countered.

This is a list of the things I wrote in my first post that you have not responded to. It is assumed that everything listed in this section is agreed to be true between us unless you respond. Do keep in mind that for some of what is listed you did respond but with "It won't happen due to my electricity strategy". However you did not respond in the case that I scrutinized that strategy.

1. As I have established in my first post Mandarin can teleport one of your team mates to the other side of the battlefield which will separate the two characters for a very long time, probably more than 10 minutes since the battlefield is relatively large and the team is equalized to Albus speed. You have not attempted to countered this in your rebuttal post. The team doesn't need to know which one is the invisible one since there are only 2 people. If storm gets teleported Susan will fall against superior attack potency and a defense too strong for her attacks. You have not attempted to countered my arguments that Susan's attacks aren't getting through my team's defenses in your rebuttal post so I am going to assume this is a mutually agreed fact. If Susan gets teleported Storm will be in for a rough fight due to the lack of durability feats meaning each member of my team can one shot her. Storm's powers will be nullified by Mandarin completely and will be helpless against the team.

2. Albus can get teleported by Mandarin or teleport himself to paralyze your team and put them to sleep. I have said this in my first post and you have not attempted to refute this in your rebuttal post so I am going to assume it is a mutually agreed fact.

3. Mandarin can at any time teleport your team to virtually anywhere on the battlefield. So dumbledore can fire a Sleep charm in any direction and then Mandarin can teleport storm into it. This strategy works at ridiculous ranges since Mandarin could teleport Shield's helicarrier to a different dimension at a distance and then teleport that same helicarrier back to Earth from that different dimension. so his range works even across dimensions.

4. Susan's attacks cannot go through Mandarin's shields, she cannot go through Aang's defenses if he chooses to erect an earth wall.

5. Many of Storm's abilities are nullified such as Wind, Water and Ice manipulation due to the Mandarin.

6. You didn't bother posting any durability feats for Storm from what I can see.

7. Susan's force fields do not have the capacity to block Mandarin's attacks. Furthermore you have posted no feats of the "unstable molecules" mentioned in your post. Mandarin's orange ring acid cloud is gonna eat through that. You have also failed to defend the 20 story feat you posted, this means that her force field capacity is drastically lower than what is it initially seemed.

8. Your team cannot survive Mandarin teleporting the explosive payloads prepared during prep.

9. Susan's air tight forcefield strat to people out will not work on my team due to Albus' bubblehead charm and Aang and Mandarin's intrinsic air generation.

Conclusion

1. First and foremost as I have explained Mandarin will be able to tank Storm's lightning even at point blank range. The entire team will highly likely feel nothing due to the inverse square law and the entire team does not have to tank the lightning when they are in the air before the battle begins. This means the battle will be a fight under more neutral terms.

2. Since Susan and Storm are invisible at the beginning my team will 100% detect invisibility since they are using it themselves. Even though they have no knowledge one of the first things they will think about is invisibility since they are using it themselves. Albus uses Revelio charm which has worked on superior methods of invisibility than your team like a Deathly Hallow according to Word of God. My entire team can see yours but only Susan can see mine. This will be a key factor. What this means is that if Susan is separated from Storm she cant see and hear the team.

3. You have acknowledged that Mandarin wins against your team by himself and that the reason he might lose is due to your electricity strategy. The electricity strategy shouldn't work at all. Mandarin according to our mutual agreement will defeat your team indeed. Mandarin is in the air and wont get hit by the electric water, even if he was in the water he can tank Storm's lightning at point blank range, if Storm's lightning is strong enough to KO Mandarin fast enough that he can't react with teleportation or shield (I am not willing to believe this yet) it would have to be ridiculously stronger than what you have shown to be able to do so when the inverse square law takes effect and your electricity becomes exponentially weaker.

4. Expanding on point 3 I personally feel your strategy is too reliant on the electricity strategy, which relies on the ignorance of the inverse square law. Relies on Susan being able to go through Mandarin's electrical durability and relies on my team staying on the ground at the start of the battle which they won't.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By tomtheawesome123
Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#33  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

Conclusion

So Mandarin has a feat of tanking an electrical attack.

In this scan Mandarin unleashes an electric attack on Tony Stark. The attack initially unleashes a shockwave which knocked away Pepper and War machine from a distance. Then Mandarin and Tony get electrocuted together by Mandarin's own attack. The strength of Mandarin's electricity is pretty extreme. It is able to dent and damage Tony's armor. This is an extremely high current.

Think about it, Tony's armor is made of a very durable metal. Durable enough to survive crashing into a train in episode 1 without a visible scratch. It gets cracked and dented by this electrical attack. Mandarin's own armor doesn't get damaged here by the way. He manages to last for a couple of seconds until making a plea deal but only due to the pain. This means if Storm's lightning was equal to Mandarin's lightning at this point in the story (Something I am not willing to believe yet) Mandarin would have ample time before activating his shields.

Furthermore it is important to note that Mandarin tanked this attack point blank, he was literally touching Tony Stark and electrocuting himself with his own attack. I will explain why this is important later.

So I can agree that Mandarin would survive being electrocuted but...

No Caption Provided

-In this gif The Grandmaster has Susan along with others in force fields, but Sue is able to create a force field through it, so should Mandarin get the chance to create his shield Sue could just create force blades inside his shield or suffocate him in his shield.

The water may be electrically charged... Technically speaking. But at greater distances the charge isn't going to be enough to kill my team. Furthermore I want to explain something else.

-Since the battle starts with 100 feet between our teams Storm can release her lightning directly at your team and Mandarin would probably tank it but not Aang and Albus and the fact remains that Storm can summon multiple bolts at rapid succession that your team can't react to and if Storm's lightning can blow a hole in a three foot metal sentinel than she can definitely kill Aang and Albus and affect Mandarin to some degree.

During 20 min my prep time I have stated that my characters will fly in the air before the battle starts. I am allowed to do this as long as the distance between our characters is the same and we are in front of each other. The host has allowed me to do this.

Again It's highly unlikely that your team will fly if they don't know what my team is capable of. If you had the basic knowledge perk this would be understandable but without it your team would just be focused on finding my team. I don't even think Aang or Albus can fly unaided for long.

Bad excuse, if your character is above your points then you shouldn't be using it. These are the only showings you have so the discussion will continue under the presumption that these are Susan's capabilities. Nothing more and Nothing less until proven otherwise. If you want Susan's capabilities to be viewed as more impressive then you should provide evidence of such.

Fair enough.

They will know what to expect because when the battle starts they can't see your team. So Mandarin logically would locate the enemy team with his powers. Especially when my team is doing the same things but to a greater extent.

While Mandarin tries to locate my team Storm bombards the area with lightning, and Sue can naturally see your team at directly attack them with attacks they can't defend against.

Now it is quite likely that the team will fly actually. They don't do it after the battle starts but before during the 20 minutes of prep. Starting in the air invisible and quiet is logically the best option since people would least expect you to be invisible in the air.

The characters on your team never starts a battle flying, invisible, yes but not flying when facing an unknown enemy.

1. As I have established in my first post Mandarin can teleport one of your team mates to the other side of the battlefield which will separate the two characters for a very long time, probably more than 10 minutes since the battlefield is relatively large and the team is equalized to Albus speed. You have not attempted to countered this in your rebuttal post. The team doesn't need to know which one is the invisible one since there are only 2 people. If storm gets teleported Susan will fall against superior attack potency and a defense too strong for her attacks. You have not attempted to countered my arguments that Susan's attacks aren't getting through my team's defenses in your rebuttal post so I am going to assume this is a mutually agreed fact. If Susan gets teleported Storm will be in for a rough fight due to the lack of durability feats meaning each member of my team can one shot her. Storm's powers will be nullified by Mandarin completely and will be helpless against the team.

From what you've posted I'm sure Mandarin won't teleport his opponents around immediately as the battle starts he would be hit by lightning and Sue's morals of attacks or he'll try to shield himself first.

2. Albus can get teleported by Mandarin or teleport himself to paralyze your team and put them to sleep. I have said this in my first post and you have not attempted to refute this in your rebuttal post so I am going to assume it is a mutually agreed fact.

I mostly didn't debunk this because Albus won't last more than a few seconds in because he'll either be electrocuted or cut to shreds by Sue's invisible blades.

3. Mandarin can at any time teleport your team to virtually anywhere on the battlefield. So dumbledore can fire a Sleep charm in any direction and then Mandarin can teleport storm into it. This strategy works at ridiculous ranges since Mandarin could teleport Shield's helicarrier to a different dimension at a distance and then teleport that same helicarrier back to Earth from that different dimension. so his range works even across dimensions.

Since you don't have any teamwork perks I'm really sceptic on your team working together especially with someone like Mandarin in the team.

4. Susan's attacks cannot go through Mandarin's shields, she cannot go through Aang's defenses if he chooses to erect an earth wall

Sue can create force fields past Mandarin's shield as I explained already and Aang won't know about the blades since they're invisible.

5. Many of Storm's abilities are nullified such as Wind, Water and Ice manipulation due to the Mandarin.

Storm will only use her lightning in the battle.

6. You didn't bother posting any durability feats for Storm from what I can see.

Both Sue and Storm have peak human durability and if they tanked anything above that I consider it PIS.

7. Susan's force fields do not have the capacity to block Mandarin's attacks. Furthermore you have posted no feats of the "unstable molecules" mentioned in your post. Mandarin's orange ring acid cloud is gonna eat through that. You have also failed to defend the 20 story feat you posted, this means that her force field capacity is drastically lower than what is it initially seemed.

Susan won't really have to use a force field defensively given that my team will likely KO or kill your team after the first attacks.

8. Your team cannot survive Mandarin teleporting the explosive payloads prepared during prep.

If the area is filled with electricity, the explosives will just go off around your team because I doubt that Mandarin can teleport stuff faster than Storm can summon lightning.

9. Susan's air tight forcefield strat to people out will not work on my team due to Albus' bubblehead charm and Aang and Mandarin's intrinsic air generation.

Albus and Aang won't survive the electrocution and Mandarin will be affected by the electricity to some extent and then Sue could kill him with invisible attacks that he can't defend against.

1. First and foremost as I have explained Mandarin will be able to tank Storm's lightning even at point blank range. The entire team will highly likely feel nothing due to the inverse square law and the entire team does not have to tank the lightning when they are in the air before the battle begins. This means the battle will be a fight under more neutral terms.

Mandarin would be able to tank the lightning but not Albus and Aang.

2. Since Susan and Storm are invisible at the beginning my team will 100% detect invisibility since they are using it themselves. Even though they have no knowledge one of the first things they will think about is invisibility since they are using it themselves. Albus uses Revelio charm which has worked on superior methods of invisibility than your team like a Deathly Hallow according to Word of God. My entire team can see yours but only Susan can see mine. This will be a key factor. What this means is that if Susan is separated from Storm she cant see and hear the team.

Albus will be electrocuted as soon as the battle starts before he can even speak.

3. You have acknowledged that Mandarin wins against your team by himself and that the reason he might lose is due to your electricity strategy. The electricity strategy shouldn't work at all. Mandarin according to our mutual agreement will defeat your team indeed. Mandarin is in the air and wont get hit by the electric water, even if he was in the water he can tank Storm's lightning at point blank range, if Storm's lightning is strong enough to KO Mandarin fast enough that he can't react with teleportation or shield (I am not willing to believe this yet) it would have to be ridiculously stronger than what you have shown to be able to do so when the inverse square law takes effect and your electricity becomes exponentially weaker

Yes if my team would potentially loose against Mandarin if I didn't have the Morals- Off perk but with it nothing stops Sue from cutting Mandarin apart inside his shield even while he is invisible.

Just a quick recap of my strategy

  • Storm will fill the terrain in ankle to knee deep water.
  • My team starts the battle invisible in the air.
  • As soon as the battle starts Storm fills the area around herself and Sue in lightning given that she won't be able to see the opposite team.
  • As soon as the battle starts Sue will attack the opposing team with barrages of invisible force blades since she would be able to see the opposing team even though they'are invisible.

Reasons why I think my team ultimately wins

1. You don't have any teamwork perks so your characters won't be willing to cooperate especially given their characteristics.

2. You don't have any perks that gives your team knowledge on my team, so your team will be going in blind.

3. You haven't posted any instances where your characters starts a battle flying so for them to do so here is highly unlikely and out of character.

4. Mandarin is more powerful and versatile than my team, but my strategy combined with a morals-of Sue and Storm and Mandarin's disadvantages he'd go down almost instantly.

5. Aang and Albus can't react to or tank any electricity and Mandarin can't defend himself from Sue's attacks even with his shields and invisibility.

No Caption Provided

-Here's a gif of Storm using Aoe lightning

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for scarlet_wiccan
Scarlet_Wiccan

1172

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36  Edited By tomtheawesome123

Rebuttals

So I can agree that Mandarin would survive being electrocuted but...

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11139/111391579/7386813-20200522_125143.gif

-In this gif The Grandmaster has Susan along with others in force fields, but Sue is able to create a force field through it, so should Mandarin get the chance to create his shield Sue could just create force blades inside his shield or suffocate him in his shield.

(I chose to paste the link of your gif instead of directly pasting it in my quote since it gets clunky.)

So I can agree that she can create force fields at a distance but I doubt the force blades she creates could penetrate Mandarin's raw durability which has contended with Iron Man who crashed into a train at episode 1. I also doubt that creating force blades at a distance would even hurt anyone since she hasn't shown a capability of manipulating her force blades at a distance, you have not shown feats of her capable of moving the blades to cut opponents after they are conjured. You should have provided scans of this since this is a completely new argument that you should have mentioned way earlier, preferably in your first post. Even the Super Skrull in the episode "Revenge of the Skrulls" who had mastered all 4 of the Fantastic Four's powers could not do that. And he was evil so by default had morals off.

I have already explained why trying to suffocate any of my team members is a fool's game twice before. Once in my first post:

No Caption Provided

And once in my second post:

No Caption Provided

She can't suffocate him. He teleports away. Her force blades do not have the capacity to breach Mandarin's armor even when thrown normally, you have shown no feats of her creating force blades at a distance and then manipulating them so they cut and stab with the same attack potency. Even if you did (Which you should have done way earlier) it doesn't breach Mandarin's base durability which can contend with Iron man in both Mark 1 and Mark 2. I have shown Mandarin durability feats in my first post already so I don't feel I need to show them again and repeat myself.

-Since the battle starts with 100 feet between our teams Storm can release her lightning directly at your team and Mandarin would probably tank it but not Aang and Albus and the fact remains that Storm can summon multiple bolts at rapid succession that your team can't react to and if Storm's lightning can blow a hole in a three foot metal sentinel than she can definitely kill Aang and Albus and affect Mandarin to some degree.

The thing here is Storm can't actually see my team, only Susan can. Storm would need to have Susan tell her where to shoot. By the time Susan tells her my team would already have moved since this is a fight and my team are not obligated to stand still and wait for Susan to tell Storm where my team is. Or in the worst case scenario KO'd your team through various methods that you have not countered when given multiple chances.

They include but are not limited to:

1. Explosives teleported into Susan's shield

2. Albus paralyzing and then sleeping your team

3. Pure power through Mandarin's rings

And blowing a hole in a metal sentinel is not all that impressive, since you are only blowing a hole in it. What I mean is that you are not challenging the entire durability of the sentinel, you are only affecting the area where you punched a hole in. Therefore you only have to deal with the durability of that specific area of the sentinel.

This can be illustrated by how a drill works in real life. If you have a wall that is 1 story big and you drill a hole in it. It is just as impressive as drilling a hole in a wall that is 10 stories big as long as both walls are made using the same material. This is because the drill is not destroying the entire wall, its just damaging a specific portion of the wall and only has to deal with the durability of that specific area. However, if you blew up the 2 story wall all at once it will be twice as impressive as doing it with the 1 story wall since you are challenging the entire durability of the wall in that scenario.

Storm's feat is just as impressive even if the Sentinel was 2 stories or 1 story big. Mandarin's durability feat however is truly impressive because the electricity was coursing through Tony's entire armor which means it was spread out and had to punch through the entire durability of that suit. And it still broke it. Mandarin tanked the same electricity.

Again It's highly unlikely that your team will fly if they don't know what my team is capable of. If you had the basic knowledge perk this would be understandable but without it your team would just be focused on finding my team. I don't even think Aang or Albus can fly unaided for long.

They will fly because that is logically the option that will give them the best chance to win. They are going to fly regardless of whether they know about your team or not. Being in the air is the best option since you have more mobility in the air and are not effected by things like landmines and underground attacks to the same extent. Albus Dumbledore during prep would think of this after learning my team's capabilities since he is considered one of the cleverest and intelligent wizards in the entire verse. Has outsmarted people like Voldemort who have decades of experience, successfully guessed Voldemort's horcruxes etc. He is gonna make the team do this during prep.

Aang can fly unaided with his glider pretty easily with no sign of strain that would imply that he has a significant time limit . In fact in one of the scenes he is flying upwards which means he can overcome gravity pretty easily proving that he can fly unaided without support for a very long time. His glider counts as standard gear .

Albus cannot fly but he can hang on to Aang who can fly while carrying someone else. Mandarin is also another option. Either way he is gonna join in the flying since it is the logical best option.

Regardless, even if they didn't start with flight you can't electrocute them due to inverse square law which you have not responded to, meaning it will be assumed that we both agree that my team is safe from the electricity at 100 feet.

And as for finding your team like I have explained in my previous posts Mandarin can detect the invisible and the hidden from countries away and Albus can use Revelio charm which can reveal people who use the Cloak of Invisibility which is a Deathly Hallow, far superior to standard cloaks which in turn are superior to your invisibility. My team will find yours near instantly but you will always have Storm who can't see or hear my team.

Bad excuse, if your character is above your points then you shouldn't be using it. These are the only showings you have so the discussion will continue under the presumption that these are Susan's capabilities. Nothing more and Nothing less until proven otherwise. If you want Susan's capabilities to be viewed as more impressive then you should provide evidence of such.

Fair enough.

Alright, so now it seems we have reached common agreement that Susan's forcefields are not impressive enough to block the most rudimentary of my team's attacks which I have stated multiple times (Aang throwing a big rock, Mandarin's pure power).

While Mandarin tries to locate my team Storm bombards the area with lightning, and Sue can naturally see your team at directly attack them with attacks they can't defend against.

This is a statement that is unsupported. You have had chances to prove that Susan's attacks can penetrate Aang's earth defenses and Mandarin's shields or even regular durability but you have not provided the necessary evidence despite being given multiple chances.

Storm can't see my team and needs Susan to tell her or point, my team will be moving around though and teleporting. The best Susan can do to help Storm aim is to point in a direction... But pointing only tells the direction and not the distance in that particular direction. In order to hit my team at all Susan needs to show the direction and the distance in that direction, good luck saying things like "50 metres in the 12 o clock direction" in a battle.

The characters on your team never starts a battle flying, invisible, yes but not flying when facing an unknown enemy.

I don't see why not. In fact when facing an unknown enemy they would have more reason to fly since that would be the option that is most likely to be good since it avoids underground attacks and landmines. And you have more mobility while in the air. Furthermore it makes more sense to start in the air when invisible since you won't leave footprints on the ground. Albus dumbledore is smart enough to plan this.

From what you've posted I'm sure Mandarin won't teleport his opponents around immediately as the battle starts he would be hit by lightning and Sue's morals of attacks or he'll try to shield himself first.

He separates your team before all that happens since Susan needs to tell Storm where my team is (who will be moving around by the way so it is gonna be difficult to communicate the distance and the direction of my team's position). And even if we trust your argument Mandarin would tank all your attacks and then separate your team anyways.

I mostly didn't debunk this because Albus won't last more than a few seconds in because he'll either be electrocuted or cut to shreds by Sue's invisible blades.

You relied on killing Albus at the beginning to shut off his abilities but that won't happen since Storm needs to see Albus which she can't. The best she can do is have Susan estimate the distance and direction which isn't gonna work since my team is gonna be teleporting and moving and making your team focus on other things such as teleporting explosives and energy beams which punch right through Susan's forcefields etc. Susan's blades aren't going to go through my team's defenses since you have not given enough feats to suggest they go through Mandarin's shields or Aang's earth defenses despite being given a chance.

Since you don't have any teamwork perks I'm really sceptic on your team working together especially with someone like Mandarin in the team.

This is a reasonable skepticism. But Mandarin has shown that he is willing to work with anyone if it is necessary. This battle scenario is necessary since he needs to win or risk dying.

He has worked with Tony Stark, his arch enemy multiple times. Once in Season 2 episode 14 when he wanted Tony's help to get the 8th ring and once in Season 2 episode 20 when he fought Dr Doom along with Tony Stark.

Aang is 100% going to work with people. 100%, people who have watched ATLA can attest to this.

Dumbledore is also 100% going to work with people for sure. Anyone who has read Harry Potter or even watched the movies could attest to this.

Sue can create force fields past Mandarin's shield as I explained already and Aang won't know about the blades since they're invisible.

Creating a forcefield won't do much when those haven't shown the capacity to bypass even Mandarin's regular durability. Aang may not be able to see her blades but he can create shields in the general direction. Since Albus revelio charms your team Aang can see your team and thus can just create a shield in the general direction.

5. Many of Storm's abilities are nullified such as Wind, Water and Ice manipulation due to the Mandarin.

Storm will only use her lightning in the battle.

So she is only gonna use her lightning? So your saying Storm is not going to try and use her other abilities? She is just instantly gonna know to only use lightning even when she only has basic knowledge?

Even if we assume this is gonna be the case her lightning won't do much since she needs to see my team which is gonna be hard even with Susan there since she won't know the direction and distance to hit my team.

Both Sue and Storm have peak human durability and if they tanked anything above that I consider it PIS.

Yeah I gotcha. they are gonna get one hit by rudimentary attacks.

7. Susan's force fields do not have the capacity to block Mandarin's attacks. Furthermore you have posted no feats of the "unstable molecules" mentioned in your post. Mandarin's orange ring acid cloud is gonna eat through that. You have also failed to defend the 20 story feat you posted, this means that her force field capacity is drastically lower than what is it initially seemed.

Susan won't really have to use a force field defensively given that my team will likely KO or kill your team after the first attacks.

So what I am getting here is that you are going to rely on killing my team before they kill yours. This is hard to believe for me because my team has more impressive defensive capabilities than yours and they also have higher offensive capability. Mandarin alone by your admission overwhelms your team:

No Caption Provided

The only reason why you yourself thought your team could cheat a win is through your electricity strategy which has been debunked.

Your team isn't killing Mandarin let alone my entire team.

If the area is filled with electricity, the explosives will just go off around your team because I doubt that Mandarin can teleport stuff faster than Storm can summon lightning.

First of all you have not shown feats of Storm spamming lightning over an entire area as big as the battlefield that was proposed. This sort of thing should have been posted in the first post... It would be above the limits considering the size of this battlefield but I can't take this statement as true without the proof. Especially when you have had multiple chances to show said proof.

Your electricity in water strategy doesn't work either so I am hard pressed to believe she can spam it over the entire battlefield.

Secondly I mentioned in my very first post that the explosives are contained within Earth constructs. Earth and rock are insulators and will protect the explosives from electricity.

Finally I will mention that speed is equalized so the Mandarin would teleport stuff at the same speed Storm would begin to fire lightning. Except mandarin would be slightly faster since teleportation doen't need to travel a distance like Lightning can. Not that it would need to since Storm doesn't know the location of the explosives and she has no feats shown of spamming a battlefield the size of ours with lightning.

Albus and Aang won't survive the electrocution and Mandarin will be affected by the electricity to some extent and then Sue could kill him with invisible attacks that he can't defend against.

Even if he can't defend against the invisible attacks he can just teleport away. Susan's attacks aren't getting through the shields and the point of creating attacks inside Mandarin's shield is something that you just squeezed in your final post and Susan has only shown to be able to create force fields not force blades at a distance. The force blades aren't going through Mandarin's regular durability either.

You have provided no proof that the electrocution will even affect Mandarin at all, Mandarin has tanked lightning at point blank which can damage and fracture Tony's armor. This is far more impressive than what Storm has shown.

Albus and Aang survives the electrocution if you are referring to the water electrocution at the beginning which won't work. Both Albus and Aang can go inside Mandarin's shields once they realize lightning is being fired. Storm won't hit my team with lightning initially since she cant see them and need Susan to tell her the direction and distance.

Mandarin would be able to tank the lightning but not Albus and Aang.

I will agree with this statement, however I want to comment that overall my team's durability is higher than yours. My team has one character that can tank lightning and your team has 0 due to them having peak human durability by your own admission.

Albus will be electrocuted as soon as the battle starts before he can even speak.

Storm can't see Albus. She needs Susan to speak to her and tell her distance and direction and even then she wont hit the team due to them moving since this is a battlefield.

Yes if my team would potentially loose against Mandarin if I didn't have the Morals- Off perk but with it nothing stops Sue from cutting Mandarin apart inside his shield even while he is invisible.

The lack of feats stops Susan from doing it since she has only created a forcefield and not force blades. Said force blades won't go through Mandarin's base durability which I have shown in my first post. Those feats put him above Susan's class.

Just a quick recap of my strategy

  • Storm will fill the terrain in ankle to knee deep water.
  • My team starts the battle invisible in the air.
  • As soon as the battle starts Storm fills the area around herself and Sue in lightning given that she won't be able to see the opposite team.
  • As soon as the battle starts Sue will attack the opposing team with barrages of invisible force blades since she would be able to see the opposing team even though they'are invisible.

The area she fills with lightning would be very small judging from the feats you have posted by the way. You have had multiple chances to do this.

The force blades are gonna get blocked by Mandarin's shields and do not have the attack potency to go through his normal durability. Since our teams have equal speed There is no reason that my team can't attack at the same time your team does. My team however has greater damage potential and higher defensive capabilities so they should win this all out war.

1. You don't have any teamwork perks so your characters won't be willing to cooperate especially given their characteristics.

I will be honest here, you shouldn't making this statement when you haven't watched Ironman armored adventures. Mandarin has worked with his arch nemesis and greatest enemy on at least 2 occasions, once in Season 2 episode 14 and once in Season 2 episode 20. He does it again in Season 2 episode 25 and 26 against the Makluan invasion. I have already shown scans of these episodes to prove other things about the Mandarin.

In fact, it seems that you completely ignored one of my arguments. In my first post I showed that the Mandarin teleported to Tony Stark's secret hideout to ask for help. If you go to my First post then go into my "Makluan Rings" section there is a "Crimson ring" section which explains this.

My team doesn't really need perfect team work when they are all completely capable of working together.

2. You don't have any perks that gives your team knowledge on my team, so your team will be going in blind.

That is true, but your team only has basic knowledge on my team. And my team has far more abilities than yours so the amount of things that your team doesn't know about mine is larger than the amount of things my team doesn't know about yours. Basic Knowledge may be a nice convenience but there is a lot to know about my team that isn't covered by basic knowledge so my team would actually have the knowledge advantage surprisingly.

3. You haven't posted any instances where your characters starts a battle flying so for them to do so here is highly unlikely and out of character.

I actually have but not to specifically communicate that they are comfortable with starting the battle flying. It was to prove other things but I will post them again.

Mandarin starts the fight flying here. Keep in mind that this scan was first used to prove Mandarin's shield durability but it also doubles as proof that he is completely ok with starting the battle flying.

Aang due to his easy going nature will follow suit when my team plans to start the battle flying during 20 minute prep.

And besides... Why would this be an important point when your electricity to water strategy is fundamentally flawed on a scientific level and you haven't countered the debunking?

And even if we assume something stupid like the Mandarin, Aang and Dumbledore being scared of heights and have a phobia for flying (which they don't) they would still choose to fly since flying doesn't leave footprints when you are invisible (Which is part of their plan). This is a battle that can result in death so they would be willing to do it no matter the cost. Especially Dumbledore. In fact Dumbledore actually planned Harry Potter's death just so he could destroy one of Voldemort's horcruxes so this shows my characters will go to extreme lengths to win. In the scene above Dumbledore is planning to raise Harry Potter as a "pig for slaughter" so that he could kill him to make Voldemort mortal again by destroying a horcrux. Dumbledore and the rest of the team are gonna fly, they are gonna do whatever it takes to win. Which includes flying which is the logical option if you dont want to make footprints while invisible.

4. Mandarin is more powerful and versatile than my team, but my strategy combined with a morals-of Sue and Storm and Mandarin's disadvantages he'd go down almost instantly.

Your team's gonna go down instantly because you have shown no feats of Storm being able to even hurt Mandarin who has tanked his own electricity which is of a much higher attack potency than yours, I have proven this with scans (Lightning was able to damage Tony Stark's armor). Susan's blades aren't doing anything since they lack the feats to suggest they can damage mandarin's normal durability let alone his shields.

He is gonna have a field day with your team by teleporting and blasting them.

5. Aang and Albus can't react to or tank any electricity and Mandarin can't defend himself from Sue's attacks even with his shields and invisibility.

Neither can your team. And your team has no answer to the plethora of things my team can do such as paralysis, sleeping, teleporting explosives, separation etc.

And again, Storm can't hit my team since she can't see my team.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11139/111391579/7386975-20200522_154601.gif

-Here's a gif of Storm using Aoe lightning

So you are planning to hit them with Aoe Lightning? That Aoe is not very big. Remember how my team starts off 100 feet away? That ain't reaching man. My team destroys your team immediately with teleporting explosives. Or dismantles them through teleportation.

Conclusion

Throughout this entire discussion you have had multiple chances to prove that Susan can hurt Mandarin which you have not.

You have not provided the ample evidence that Storm can even affect Mandarin with her lightning even when you were given a chance. In your final post instead of providing evidence and scans for Storm being able to affect Mandarin you just said that she could which is just a baseless claim.

Your team has not proven to have the defensive capacity to not get one shotted by my team's most rudimentary attacks.

My team has the defensive capability to comfortably defend against and in most cases no-sell your team's attacks. Albus and Aang can go inside Mandarin's shield. You have stated in your "recap of my strategy" section that Storm at the beginning will sorround the area around herself with lightning. This will immediately tell Aang and Albus do go inside Mandarin's shields or Albus can form a shield of his own through the Shield Charm, the shield charm when cast by an inferior wizard without the elder wand can tank this easily Even if we ignore Albus' shield charm since I typed this in the final post Mandarin's shields are still enough.

The lightning conjured by Storm around her at the beginning won't reach my team since they are 100 feet away and the gif you showed of Storm using AOE lightning is at best around 15 feet around her. You have failed to provide the necessary evidence.

You have throughout you have failed to defend your feats to an extent that makes me question the impressiveness of your characters let alone how those characters can overcome my team. For example at first you planned on having storm electrocute the entire battlefield, when the inverse square law shut that down you now opt for spamming an area round her with lightning. Another example would be at first stating that Susan's forcefields could handle any attack as long as they were within the limits of the tourney and then failing to defend Susan's forcefield feats when I scrutinized them with evidence, then arguing that she "won't need to use it defensively". You have also sometimes ignored some of my arguments entirely, I posted a counter to Susan's suffocation technique in my very first post and yet you used the same argument in your final post without addressing my counters to that same technique which I wrote in the very first post. All of this suggests you are not really confident that your team can defeat mine. And it also suggests your team doesn't have the capability to.

All of these factors make me comfortable that my team will be able to overcome yours easily. The lack evidence your put out for their attack potency going through Mandarin's non-shield durability. The lack of evidence suggesting Storm can even tag my team when she can't see them, the lack of evidence of your team being able to defend against my team's most rudimentary attacks all combine to form a strong case that my team wins in a stomp.

All of this coupled with the fact that I have provided ample counters and evidence to all your arguments makes me believe that my team will be the winner here.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for shade545
Shade545

1759

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Avatar image for psi-bite234
psi-bite234

841

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#39  Edited By psi-bite234

Overall my vote goes to scarlet_wiccan

tomtheawesome123 you made your argument as if you were controlling your characters like the whole flying thing and like their working as team but you didn't have any Perks. (Let's be real Aang and Albus won't work together with Mandarin let alone together lol) TBH you seriously underused Aang.Yoy convinced me that Mandarin could be a real threat but argument didn't work as effectively as you thought.

scarlet_wiccan your strategy was successful you convince me that Sue and Storm makes a deadly duo but I feel you could have counter lot of your opponents arguments better. Your Gameplan was very excellent considering that your opponent had a hard time countering it.

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@psi-bite234: Perhaps I should have explained some things better. But I do have to ask, why was wrong with my explanation of Mandarin working with the team in my final post?

Avatar image for psi-bite234
psi-bite234

841

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#41  Edited By psi-bite234

@tomtheawesome123: This is your argument right

This is a reasonable skepticism. But Mandarin has shown that he is willing to work with anyone if it is necessary. This battle scenario is necessary since he needs to win or risk dying.

He has worked with Tony Stark, his arch enemy multiple times. Once in Season 2 episode 14 when he wanted Tony's help to get the 8th ring and once in Season 2 episode 20 when he fought Dr Doom along with Tony Stark.

The thing is Mandarin knows Tony's mindset and what he's capable of first thing here is he doesn't know any of his allies and what their capable of

Aang is 100% going to work with people. 100%, people who have watched ATLA can attest to this.

Aang has the mental mindset of a child so you can make argument that he will work together but come on now Aang won't trust someone he just met lol.

Dumbledore is also 100% going to work with people for sure. Anyone who has read Harry Potter or even watched the movies could attest to this.

The same goes for Dumbledore except the child argument

If everyone can argue their characters could work together why do you see people using the Team work perk it's just the way how Tourneys work

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@psi-bite234: Yeah I gotcha, I will keep this in mind for future tourneys.

Avatar image for geekryan
geekryan

10118

Forum Posts

43

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

My vote goes to @scarlet_wiccan in a close one.

I think both debaters heavily relied on out-of-character tactics, but Tom did so more than Scarlet. I wasn't entirely convinced that Mandarin would willingly work with two strangers, but Aang and Albus would work together. I was convinced that Mandarin and Aang would take to the air before the battle began, but it doesn't make sense for Dumbledore to do so. So, in that event, Dumbledore would go down from being struck by lightning or electrocuted. I also don't buy that Mandarin would allow Dumbledore to cast any spell on him, including invisibility, without a teamwork perk. That being said, Tom did convince me that Mandarin would be hard to put down and that he would be the MVP of the match.

Tom did a good job at countering many of Scarlet's arguments and backing up his own arguments, but his strategy seemed so out of character for his team that it really hurt his overall arguments. I was convinced that Dumbledore would be taken out rather quickly, followed by Aang. From there, despite Mandarin's impressive durability, he would eventually go down to a combined attack from Storm and Invisible Woman.

Good job to the both of you! This was a fun debate to read :)

Avatar image for tomtheawesome123
tomtheawesome123

1709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@geekryan: I need to ask. What has made people think that Susan could go through Mandarin's base durability?

Avatar image for geekryan
geekryan

10118

Forum Posts

43

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

@geekryan: I need to ask. What has made people think that Susan could go through Mandarin's base durability?

Alone, she couldn't. But her and Storm attacking together would bring him down eventually.