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#101 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

@jashro44: Yeah, but we've seen Marvel use it for so many different speeds, shouldn't it just kinda be a nothing burger? Especially since something like the Iron Man armor speeds up the speed of thought for Tony. I guess you can quantify it and say anything above it is WIS, but I honestly think that ever instance of the "speed of thought" is WIS, it's just used because it sounds cool.

Maybe but its impossible to say. Honestly most writers don't put anywhere near this amount of thought into feats when they write them. I doubt most writers are considering the speed an object traveling through the atmosphere would be. I'm just taking the scan at face value.

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#102 Posted by Kevd4wg (12250 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Fair enough, can't disagree with that

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#103 Edited by LoveEveryone (1105 posts) - - Show Bio

Too bad her great power isn’t equal in speed. Not tagging anyone above 6.

She has low Hypersonic feats. Spider-Man is known for speedblitzing enemies.

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#104 Posted by Noone1996 (11112 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

This is still far off from throwing hundreds or thousands of punches in a second.

He wouldn't have to blast all those rocks in one second to do what he is doing in that scan. If each panel is a second he blasting 20 boulders in one second.

You have to understand that Iron Man hasn't ever needed to punch or blast something hundreds of times in a second, so saying, "that scan isn't specific enough to my personal subjective guidelines for what a speedster is, so it doesn't work", doesn't hold any water at all. I am showing you something as similar or close as possible since he never needs to do that which you are asking for. You can say it's not close enough, but just don't ignore other factors like how he would only be speeding himself up to match the speed of free fall... All he needs to do is hit faster than the objects can hit the floor. He is also much slower in his classic armor than his modern ones. Not only that, but there is no evidence he was straining himself or going as fast as he could. There are many different factors that suggest he could go much faster than the scans I posted if he ever needed to.

Pretty far off from hundreds or thousands. I acknowledged iron man was fast. Its just very far off from throwing hundreds or thousands of punches in a second. Its no different than ghost doing this other than iron man firing 3-4 more extra shots:

Iron Man blasting dozens of pieces of debris over a dozen times seemingly at the same time isn't the same as missing somebody and creating afterimages.

That is still mostly street level speed.

If you say so.

That's not the only way iron man be depicted as throwing hundreds of punches in a second. Speed demon did it easily enough against spider-man.

If you want to convince me iron man can throw hundreds of punches in a second just post a scan of him doing that. Or throwing hundreds of strikes in a second.

First of all, this is stupid benchmark. I don't have to show you him punching hundreds of times in a second to prove he's a speedster. That's not a universal rule. Second of all, he's never thrown hundreds of punches in a second, so saying, "he didn't do it so he can't" is a fallacy. That's like saying Quicksilver can't punch one thousand times in a second because there isn't a specific scan of him doing so. If I post something close enough which proves he's in a certain speed range you would still nitpick and say, "that's still not thousands of times in one second". So freaking what? Iron Man wasn't exerting himself when he blasted falling debris. He wasn't going as fast as he could. He only went slightly faster than the debris free falling speed. He's upgraded his armor at least a dozen times since then which would make him faster in modern armors. He didn't have the arc reactor battery lodged into his chest yet at that point which would mean he was even slower back then. You're ignoring all of these factors. Likely because they are "unquantifiable" again.

The scan debunks itself. Iron man says he is moving at the speed of thought.

So we ignore what's actually happening because of Tony's inner dialogue? Even if we play that game, you do realize that he said he's moving as fast as HE can think about it, right? Do you really think Tony thinks at normal human speeds? Lmao even Quicksilver admits he cannot think as quickly as Stark:

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Stark's even got a nanosecond speed thinking feat out there and a picosecond thinking speed feat with Extremis, so if you want to ignore the fact that he was reacting to and tagging mach 25 debris and you want to just desperately rely upon his "thought" statement, then it actually hurts your argument even more because of how fast Tony's mind thinks as a supergenius.

Not familiar with this comic but at a glance it looks like iron man is already intercepting its path and waiting for it.

Yeah, he does that. However, in order to perceive and track something moving that fast is a feat in itself. The fact that he managed to catch it actually does prove he's comparable in speed. Imagine if you tried to catch a 20 foot ball of cotton candy, but it was thrown at you at 3,000 mph. Just because you are standing in its path and are expecting it to come/ready to catch it, that doesn't guarantee that you will. If it moves too fast for you to react it may hit you before you can react and motion yourself to put your arms up and catch it. It'll knock you over. That doesn't happen to Stark and this object traveled from the moon to Earth in a couple pages via a firing mechanism, so claiming that it's only mach 25 is being highly conservative.

In one scan I posted iron man was aware hawkeye's arrows were a threat to him. He also knew that super adaptoid's arrows were a threat to him. Yet he didn't dodge them. He even says he couldn't dodge the super adatpoid's arrow.

Jash, you're actually at the point of arguing that Iron Man cannot arrow time. Are you going to acknowledge that you are unfairly nitpicking yet, or do I need to scan bomb this thread with him reacting to far faster objects to further reinforce that you are going too far? I mean this is getting ridiculous at this point. There's a ton of context with every scan you posted and your only reply to my arrow timing feats, which outnumber yours (thus making yours outliers by definition of consistency), was that "he knew the arrows were a threat"?

Before I get into the context of each scan you posted, let me really drive the point home that Tony doesn't need to dodge arrows. What you are arguing is the equivalent of saying the scan below proves that he cannot arrow time because he didn't attempt to dodge or catch them:

ERMERGERD! LOOK HE CANT EVEN DOJDGE ARROWS!

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But yeah let's pretend like him getting tagged by a bow and freaking arrow has any validity in this speed discussion.

  1. Taskmaster was busy fighting Captain America and Tony was caught off-guard by him shooting an arrow at him as he likely thought Cap would keep him distracted while he attempts to flank him. He didn't expect Taskmaster to break off his fight with Steve and shoot a long range attack (which he didn't see since Taskmaster had to take it out and didn't have it equipped). Regardless, he doesn't know Taskmaster. He doesn't know what kind of gear he has. Why would he try to arrow time if he had no clue what kind of firepower or gear he has? Debunked.
  2. The second Hawkeye scan you posted literally shows Iron Man deflecting an arrow away from Clint in the first panel. You debunked yourself with this scan. Tony knows that he's switching arrows at this point, so he didn't know what was in store for him and that could have been why he allowed himself to get tagged. If he knew it was an electronic disruption arrow or acid arrow, he would have dodged or deflected, but if he doesn't know what it is you simply cannot make the point that he knows the threat level. This holds especially true in this scenario because right after Hawkeye wraps the steel rope cables around Tony, he casually breaks out of them which meant he was right in assuming he didn't need to dodge Barton's arrow. Debunked.
  3. The third Hawkeye scan shows a fight where Tony literally arrow times twice. The second time Clint fires an arrow Tony even says, "You don't think I'll let you hit me a second time do you?" Not even getting into the fact that he holds back massively against Hawkeye who was his friend at this time. Debunked.

4. As for the Super Adaptoid scan, there's some much needed context there. First of all, that scan isn't the first time he's hit by an arrow in that fight. He stands there and no-sells an arrow at the beginning of the fight. He even does so arrogantly. This not only proves my point even more about how he tends to tank attacks he knows won't hurt him, but the arrow turned out to be a gas based one which contained a nerve agent:

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So this would have inevitably made him groggy and slower than usual.

Tony claiming he "couldn't dodge" the arrow could have been because he was still affected by the nerve gas slightly which may have slowed his reactions. Second of all, this entire fight is just horrible writing to begin with anyway. This stupid thing has the powers of Giant Man, Captain America, Wasp, and Hawkeye. That's it. A bunch of street levelers are going to give Tony that much trouble? Allow me to reinforce how stupid this writing is with some comparisons of my own:

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Notice how the actual Hank Pym as Goliath/Giant Man takes on an entire ARMY of Super Adaptoids. The exact same one that classic Iron Man struggled so greatly against. Surely that'd prove that Tony is far below him, right?

Wrong.

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This is Iron Man's model 3. He just built it. This is the first time Hank has seen it. They are sparring and Pym cannot seem to hit Tony at all. In fact, Stark stomps the shit out of him.

So the guy that was stomping an army of these Super Adaptoids could not even hit Iron Man in an older and weaker armor, yet we're supposed to use the Super Adaptoid scan of him taking on Iron Man and use that seriously? So even if you somehow disregard or nitpick the fact that Tony was affected by nerve gas before claiming he "couldn't" dodge an arrow, these scans above pretty much make that instance null and void as the Super Adaptoid was written as pretty much physically above classic Iron Man which makes absolutely no sense at all as it only has street level stats.

After all this is said and done, if you really want to keep arguing that Iron Man cannot dodge or react to arrows, I can just simply post even more scans of him arrow timing. So far I posted 6 and you have 4, so even if we ignore the context and explanations I've given in relation to the four you posted, yours are outliers since I have one more:

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Now it's 7 to 4. If you want to keep this silly nitpicking argument, I can break down every one of Hawkeye's and Iron Man's fights if you want. He tends to avoid his arrows more often than not. I mean in his very first fight he basically only tagged Iron Man through trickery or stealth. We can go down that road if you want though. The idea that he cannot arrow time is absurd.

Let me address the scans in order. But before I do that I want to point out characters have good days and bad days so iron man tagging street levelers doesn't erase instances of them dodging him. I can show instances of spider-man struggling with wolverine's speed and I can show instances of him effortlessly dodging wolverine.

It's all about consistency and context. Obviously Iron Man has missed Spider-Man at times, but he's also casually tagged him. How do we make sense of it? How do we determine which instances are more valid? How about the instances that happen more often? Pretty sure I have more scans of Tony grabbing or tagging Peter than him being danced around. Plus, if we go off of a case-by-case basis, like you are doing below, context helps clear things up there too. I think you should be able to meet in the middle with it because there can often be extremes. Some writers write Spider-Man as untouchable by Iron Man while others make it look like Iron Man did it with his eyes closed. If you meet in the middle, he is capable of tagging him after maybe missing a few times.

Another thing that you need to take into consideration is the fact that street levelers are glass cannons compared to most enemies they fight. They will dance around everybody because the writer knows Peter has no business withstanding a serious hit from most of the enemies he goes up against. Spider-Man has even tagged and dodged a character named Blur who was keeping up with Quicksilver and tagging him while they ran across continents within seconds. So that's an immense factor in why they never get tagged, so I really don't think it's that fair to discount a character's speed feats by bringing this nonsense up with street levelers. Especially when there are dozens of showings of Tony tagging them.

Norman says he is putting his uni-beam in tracking mode. This isn't the result of speed.

I know it's a technicality, but you did say "he wouldn't struggle with street levelers and comment on difficulty tagging them". So what if he uses a targeting system? His scanners are part of his powers and you are the one knocking him down for not being able to tag street levelers. If the targeting system was a problem, then why even admit scan #6 I posted was "legit" as you said because he was surely using some sort of targeting or warning system there as well?

I can't really read the dialogue on scan two (the text is to small and I can't zoom in) but it looks like Rhody used an area of effect attack.

No, he actually didn't, but I can re-upload better scans now that I've re-read that story. What's funny about that poorly written moment where Iron Man's armor somehow failed to tag or lock onto Gambit because he was "too fast" in Avengers vs X-Men, is that even Tony's security systems were capable of doing so:

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If not for Gambit's tech based partner walking him through the heist, he'd have been captured. This guy is a world renowned thief too.

It doesn't make any logical sense that he'd make penthouse security systems and metallic tentacles quicker and more efficient than the armors he wears, but since I'm sure you're going to nitpick this I've got more examples from this story. This is in Gambit's very own book too, btw. Here is a better cropped version of the image I posted earlier:

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That's the first time War Machine tags him. Remy even comments on how the armor was surprisingly light which means he had no problems moving around in it. No AoE. Tags him effortlessly.
Tags him again. Easy.
Tags him again. Easy.
You'll probably nitpick this one since he's using flight and so is Rhodey, but I'm sure an Iron Man armor zipping around with his jet boots is way faster than Gambit anyway and with his supposed
You'll probably nitpick this one since he's using flight and so is Rhodey, but I'm sure an Iron Man armor zipping around with his jet boots is way faster than Gambit anyway and with his supposed "higher than Iron Man level speeds" he should have been able to pivot and avoid Rhodey casually.

So which is the outlier? I mean you even ignored the fact that it wasn't even Tony in the suit when you pointed out Iron Man's targeting computer couldn't track Gambit.

I mean this shows Frank in his war machine armor can react to taskmaster....I don't see how this proves iron man is hypersonic?

At this point, it has more to do with addressing your sad lowballing than the hypersonic argument.

Or takes away from the fact that Tony himself had issues tagging taskmaster in hand to hand?

It proves that someone who can barely operate the suit and who gets circles run around him by random nameless rogue SHIELD agents in other armor based suits, can casually tag and stomp Taskmaster while the real Iron Man cannot. Makes you wonder.

Frank isn't as experienced as Tony when piloting the armor but he doesn't need to be to grab taskmasters sword and punch him in the face. He is probably a better hand to hand fighter and more physically imposing out of armor than Tony. This could just be a case of Frank himself reacting to taskmaster. Even though Frank got his ass kicked during the deadpool vs punisher series by taskmaster he did dodge, block, and land a hit on taskmaster. So its not surprising Frank could do that with the iron man armor.

He doesn't need to be experienced when it comes to catching a sword? Can you show me all the times that Frank Castle has ever caught a sword with his bare hands? He's still going to be clunky, delayed, and not as fluid as Tony or Rhodey would be in the armor. He's not used to scanners and armor around his entire body. If he could do it, they could too. The idea that Frank Castle can stomp Taskmaster in an obsolete and non-fully functional War Machine armor, but Tony Stark cannot in his Pentagon armor and classic suit is just straight up ridiculous. You can claim, "it doesn't take away the fact that he couldn't hit him at all in other encounters" all you want, but Taskmaster isn't even superhuman and Iron Man has tagged much faster way more often.

And then you have the audacity to cite Frank's h2h fight with Taskmaster? So the damn Punisher can parry, dodge, and tag Taskmaster, but freaking Iron Man cannot? You are aware that Castle has no super soldier serum or physical enhancements, right? You are just getting desperate with this argument at this point as you have now essentially indirectly implied that the Punisher is faster than Iron Man.

Iron man grabbed him while he was beating up wolverine, after Logan stabbed him. Peter didn't make an effort to dodge iron man since he was distracted.

That's fine, I can admit this one doesn't really count. He was even bleeding out too which may have made him a bit woozy and not at his best. I'll just replace that one with these:

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There was also that time Infamous Iron Man (Doom stole Tony's suit) fought a character who stole Spider-Man's powers and she specifically uses Spider-Man's speed, maneuverability, and agility to evade him, yet he still manages to grab her:

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Frank has shot spider-man without the iron man armor.

Frank managed to shoot Spider-Man even while he was maneuvering and flipping around as an afterimage like projected? Also, shooting someone with a handheld gun is not the same as using an Iron Man gauntlet and electrical attacks. Electricity fires much faster than bullets, so aiming and taking that into account would be a lot harder. In fact, if one were used to tagging much faster opponents with bullets or rockets, they may miss when given a much faster and effective weapon since they may not be used to its speed. Especially without experience. So yeah, you can't chalk this one up to "Punisher is faster than Iron Man" either.

The first panel it actually looks like spider-man dodges a repulsor blast. He tags Peter in the second panel but this isn't an example of iron man showing he can effortlessly tag spider-man. It just shows Tony can in fact tag him but this scan would overall show that Tony isn't hypersonic since spider-man did dodge an attack.

Again, not showing these to prove he's hypersonic. Just addressing your lowballing that he's slower than street level.

The blast in the first panel is the same blast which hits him in the second panel. He doesn't dodge it. Not only that, but he was actually being controlled by an outside force controlling his armor. I could probably make an argument that he would have been slower since an outside signal/wavelength was being transmitted to his armor which would have created some sort of minor delay as opposed to Tony's instantaneous movements within the armor when he has full control of the suit. Not to mention the fact that the armor was resisting and fighting back for control.

This scan is legit.

It's better than legit. Based on your nitpicking of all the other scans, it'd be a borderline outlier in your eyes. Spider-Man angrily blitzes Iron Man and Tony doesn't realize it until Peter is INCHES away, yet Tony still reacts, moves, and blasts Spider-Man before he can even touch Stark. Inches. Away.

I don't think extremis is iron man is hypersonic in combat speed. The feats you referenced for extremis iron man are feats of him operating his armor. Its not surprising iron man with his extremis armor can isolate a signal in a picosecond since his brain became a computer basically. He doesn't fight at those speeds.

Christ... Why the hell do you think he's this slow? I feel like I'm arguing with Cadence right now. Next you'll be bringing out the Captain America vs Iron Man scans from google images. Your preconceived notions about Iron Man's speed should not influence how you view his feats. In Extremis he literally reacts to point blank explosions which he sees in slow motion. He isn't even wearing his armor when he accomplishes these kinds of feats either:

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Suicide bombers are, no exaggeration, about 3 feet away from Tony. They are using repulsor energies in order to detonate which would mean they are much faster and efficient than normal explosions. This explosion has small nuclear yield. C4 detonates at 18,000+ mph. Even if we are conservative and we use the explosion speed of a hand grenade, which is 5,000+ mph, this would be a hypersonic feat AT THE VERY LEAST and he's NOT EVEN ARMORED. Not only does he armor up before the heat from the explosion can touch him, but as he flies out from the skyscraper the explosion hasn't even fully propagated yet as not even the entire top floor of the skyscraper is destroyed. This detonation ends up bringing the entire building down. Tony's in his suit and out of there before the explosion even fully expands. Also, his armor makes his reflexes even faster and fine-tuned. He didn't have it on when the explosion went off.

Since he perceives and reacts to a point blank explosion without the armor on that would be child's play for him while inside the suit. Here is another instance where he pretty much outdoes himself:

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The repulsor bomb is literally inside the car he's driving. This is another instance where the explosion is pretty much nuclear in yield and the only reason his friends survive this explosion is because he seems to use a force-field to contain the detonation and prevents it from expanding in their direction. Thus, completely outspeeding it. It'd be borderline impossible to calculate a feat like this since the explosion literally comes out from the car he's sitting in and inches away from, but I'd say it's even more impressive than the explosion timing I posted above. However, he once again starts out without the armor on and then suits up FASTER than the explosion can reach his body and comes out without a scratch. He even claims that diagnostic data and information floods in almost faster than he can process it and the explosion isn't even over yet.

Even when he's Extremis enhanced in his Superior Iron Man run, he casually overpowers and blitzes Daredevil without even using his armor at all:

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I'm sure you have loads of respect for Matt's speed, so why don't you tell us how impressive this is? I don't know too much about the man without fear, but I do know he's fought, dodged, and tagged Spider-Man very often in their encounters.

Even his Pentagon armor, which was too slow to effectively fight/track Mallen, was still capable of tagging and reacting to him in combat.

Can't wait to see you lowball and nitpick these scans. You'll probably show Spider-Man or Captain America explosion timing too or something. Oh well, at least I can say I tried.

We've seen this before. Spider-man outran firelord during there fight.

The context is firelord wants to kill spider-man. He has no reason to not move at his full speed. Its not like Tom defalco is ignorant as to how fast firelord can travel. He even showed in amazing spider-man 269 firelord is capable of traveling far faster than light. He obviously doesn't think spider-man can run or travel faster than light. He just didn't have firelord chase spider-man at speed greater than light because plot.

That's not the same. He didn't "outrun" Firelord. He was outmaneuvering him and dodging his fire bolts. In fact, I'd argue that Firelord had absolutely no issues at all catching up to Spider-Man. In the first two scans he gets close enough to Spider-Man that he actually manages to blast at him, but he simply misses Peter. The only reason he manages to do so well at escaping is because Firelord is maneuvering around in an unfamiliar area and if he did so at massive speeds he'd just crash through everything. To better explain what I'm trying to say, take a look at Monica Rambeau chasing Quicksilver who is clearly slower than her:

He's much more maneuverable than she is so even if she catches up to her, he can still turn on a dime and he can avoid her that way.

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Maneuverability and obstacles are a huge factor here just like with Firelord and Spider-Man.

Even Iron Man has made that comment on Thor who he knows has higher travel speed than him, but with a maneuverability advantage he wouldn't be able to catch him:

So he admits that Thor can match his speed, but maneuverability is all he needs to escape in his mind.

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He didn't outspeed Firelord at all. The very fact that he kept up with Peter and managed to hurl fireballs at him disproves that, but the fact that he had to maneuver around many obstacles is what ultimately led to him failing to catch Peter. I mean it looked like a train ended up saving Spider-Man in the end too. Your example falls flat.

Yes given the context of the circumstances sentry should be moving at top speeds but I don't know if that is what Lemire intended in that scene. Writers ignore basic logic and common sense when there plot needs it.

I could except sentry was moving faster than sound since he ripped up the ground when he flew up. I question if he was moving as fast as he was capable because plot reasons. Sentry was in a rush but flying near his top speeds would cause massive damage to the city. So that is a possible reason for sentry to show restraint if you really need one.

Even when Sentry shows restraint he is still massively hypersonic while flying on Earth...

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Flies from the Philippines to New York in less than a page.

Not that restraint in speed even makes a difference. How many times has Monica Rambeau flown at light speeds without towns getting wrecked as a side effect?

...now do you think he was flying faster to stop the Void from coming back to kill everyone? Or do you think Norman Osborn vaguely calling him for unknown reasons would be a reason for him to fly faster? Actually, since Bob has been brought back in Dr. Strange's book, we actually have a good way to measure how fast he flies in order to neutralize the Void as a threat:

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Saying that everything is unquantifiable without looking at context is not an argument.

When I say iron man is less than hypersonic I am talking about in terms of combat reflexes. Not travel speed. This comes down to what AlphaQ said. They were traveling at similar speeds, and iron man used his tractor beams to caught up and fired them in a straight line.

I know that. But if a character is flying at mach 100,000, even if you are traveling at mach 50,000 I'm pretty sure it's a feat in itself to even perceive that faster object traveling past you. Let alone tag it.

This is why I said speed demon is the next step up from spider-man. Spider-man was using his spider-sense, agility, leaping, and webs in that fight. He has other instances of doing similar to speed demon like when he was possessed by mister negative but I still wouldn't say he is as fast speed demon.

Oh, please. Your hypocrisy is showing. You have used Spider-Man so many times as a way to lowball Iron Man and tons of other characters or feats that I've posted and now you are dialing back and saying, "Spider-Man is impressive enough to avoid and tag speedsters because he uses spider sense, agility, and webs." Give me a damn break. "Spider-Man could do that, so Iron Man is not mach 5" or "Spider-Man has avoided Iron Man and he's a street leveler, so Tony's not mach 5". Over and over were you saying things like this and now you are going to use this excuse that he uses his spider sense and agility to outspeed Speed Demon?? Really?

No, I'm going to keep on lowballing your ridiculous "speedster" measuring stick from Speed Demon because even Joystick was able to do this to him:

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The fact that you admit that Speed Demon isn't as fast as Spider-Man is irrelevant. The guy fails to tag him and gets hit by Parker all the time. So your bare minimum benchmark for a speedster is someone that can punch hundreds of times in a second, but cannot avoid Spider-Man and tag him like Speed Demon.

Regardless speed demon is my bare minimum for being a speedster. I never tried to argue he was so fast someone like spider-man can't react to him at all. Speed demon was moving so fast in that fight that he was actually turning the sand into glass so that isn't a low showing for speed demon, its just a good showing for spider-man. We know how fast speed demon was moving so we can actually quantify that feat.

It doesn't matter what your intentions were or what you meant. You still used Spider-Man as a way to scale and lowball or shrug off feats I posted with Iron Man. Tony may not have ever punched hundreds of times in a second, but I'm sure he's successfully tagged the wall crawler more often than Speed Demon has. Just another reason not to rely upon your silly way of determining who is a speedster.

Your the one that is trying to argue iron man having mach 25-30 combat speed. I'm not trying to argue speed demon being that fast. He's been tagged and reacted to by street levelers, and he is suppose to be a spider-man villain. So I don't see the problem with spider-man reacting to speed demon.

Still don't see what's wrong about that. You are saying he's not even mach 5. As if he's never dealt with that kind of speed before. The guy constantly tags and deals with characters much faster, casually disarms and catches missiles, absorbs and blocks electricity/lightning and reacts to re-entry speeds.

Actually the only scan I said is PIS is the sentry scan. Sentry has flown faster than light in the past. I don't think sentry was flying anywhere near those speeds in that instance.

Was he not flying anywhere those speeds when he and Tony flew from the moon to the sun in one page too?

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He also managed to evade an Adaptoid character who was blitzing him and guess which superhero powers she had?

The Sentry.
The Sentry.

He then goes on to bring a bunch of Iron Man armors which then come and blast/punch her despite her having the Sentry's speed.

He's not slow or less than mach 5 and no amount of scans of him getting tagged by arrows or missing street levelers in wankfest writing scenarios is going to change that.

I explained my reasons for the other feats. Iron man reacting to mach 5 is different than being able to react to mach 25 or actually fighting at mach 5 speeds. I'm saying iron man isn't a speedster because he doesn't have feats like speed demon who is my bare minimum for being a speedster.

Speed Demon can't even beat Spider-Man, but sure keep using him a benchmark.

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Spectrum, Whizzer, Quicksilver, and that last guy was described by Tony as having "full on Quicksilver level speed". He was wearing a Mandarin ring which decelerates time around him (appearing as super speed) and with speed alone was capable of giving Malekith a bloody nose with a barrage of punches which led to him spitting out a tooth.

Iron Man has tagged speedsters MUCH faster than Speed Demon before, so would any of these feats make him mach 5+? Or is he still not at Spider-Man Speed Demon levels of speed?

I could maybe except iron man catching a mach 5 projectile. I don't think you've shown that. You brought up iron man catching a mortar shell but as I showed not all mortar shells move that fast.

Even if we lowball and say the mortar only traveled 1,100 mph (which is one of the lowest speeds for those even during WWII), that's still an extremely impressive feat because he moved several feet, grabbed Thor's hands and pushed them downward, and then proceeded to use magnetism to deflect that object back when it was only ONE FOOT away from Thor. That's MASSIVELY above bullet timing. Bullet timing is more or less impressive depending upon the distance. Look at how close the mortar was to Thor and then look at how casually Iron Man outspeeds it before Thor gets a chance to hit it. Iron Man was probably about 3-4 feet away too.

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Saying the mortar was a foot away from Thor is being really generous too.

Oh yeah, and the only reason Namor tagged him with a pellet gun in the next scan is because Tony didn't know what it was and assumed it wouldn't hurt him. The reason he moved and was desperate to deflect the mortar is because he knew the resulting explosion from the artillery would have killed Wasp. A tiny gun wouldn't have done that same kind of damage. So he stood there and tanked it like he usually does.

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#105 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: I don't really care about this debate anymore. No offense.

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#106 Edited by AsphaltAirborne (761 posts) - - Show Bio

arf

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#107 Posted by terry2012 (9812 posts) - - Show Bio
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#108 Posted by Evil-Incarnate (6956 posts) - - Show Bio

7 is tricky and so is 8 imo, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and say 9