Captian America(Bucky Barnes) vs Batman

could the new cap beat batman

Trauma says:

"could the new cap beat batman"

don't think so (just my opinion)

The old Cap was only just capable of beating Batman according to Kurt Busiek's JLA/Avengers.

And this is Cap's sidekick... lets do the math here.

Satyrquaze says:

"The old Cap was only *just* capable of beating Batman according to Kurt Busiek's JLA/Avengers.And this is Cap's sidekick... lets do the math here."

This may be Cap's sidekick, but he's taken the mantle of Cap so now he IS Cap. I don't think Bucky's being cut enough slack because there something that's getting knocked off, the fact that Bucky's detachable arms can attack Cap (I saw them detached in Captain America #36 I believe) and he's also has a gun. His gun will help him out too since he seems to be a pretty good shot.

The gun would only annoy Bats.

Dr. Victor von Doom says:

"Well if the Gun is standard Equip for Buck than it could go either way"

It is standard equipment. He usually has it with him.

@Satyr: It might only annoy Batman however, Bucky's no idiot himself and may be able to manuever Bruce into a reasonable position in which he can take him down either with the shield or a very well placed punch.

Well if the Gun is standard Equip for Buck than it could go either way

I love bucky but he is not beating Batman though....Steve on the other hand

Kain Echnida says:

"It is standard equipment. He usually has it with him. @Satyr: It might only annoy Batman however, Bucky's no idiot himself and may be able to manuever Bruce into a reasonable position in which he can take him down either with the shield or a very well placed punch."

That's great an all, but this is Batman. He deals with guys of Bucky's calabre on a nightly basis. Is Deadshot a worse shot than Bucky? I don't think so. Is Shiva worse at hand-to-hand? Decidedly not. Is he more unpredictable than Jason Todd or the Joker? Hells no.

Bucky might surprise Bats with his detachable arms, but I doubt that would equate to a victory for him.

I can't think of a single writer worth their weight who would write a story with Batman jobbing to Bucky (f'n) Barnes. (that was a lot of W's)

I would say Batman only because...his intellect,agility,and arsenal exceeds Bucky's.

Satyrquaze says:

"The old Cap was only *just* capable of beating Batman according to Kurt Busiek's JLA/Avengers."

Despite what the writer feels, the original Cap would defeat Batman in H2H combat.

Static Shock says:

"Satyrquaze says:

"The old Cap was only *just* capable of beating Batman according to Kurt Busiek's JLA/Avengers."

Despite what the writer feels, the original Cap would defeat Batman in H2H combat. "

That is what Busiek was saying.

Satyrquaze says:

"Kain Echnida says:

"It is standard equipment. He usually has it with him. @Satyr: It might only annoy Batman however, Bucky's no idiot himself and may be able to manuever Bruce into a reasonable position in which he can take him down either with the shield or a very well placed punch."

That's great an all, but this is Batman. He deals with guys of Bucky's calabre on a nightly basis. Is Deadshot a worse shot than Bucky? I don't think so. Is Shiva worse at hand-to-hand? Decidedly not. Is he more unpredictable than Jason Todd or the Joker? Hells no. Bucky might surprise Bats with his detachable arms, but I doubt that would equate to a victory for him. I can't think of a single writer worth their weight who would write a story with Batman jobbing to Bucky (f'n) Barnes. (that was a lot of W's) "

It won't guarentee a victory but it certainly tilts things in Bucky's favor. If Bucky's shooting at Batman's legs, the throws the shield towards Batman and launches his arms that he controls psionically at Batman at the same time from behind him, he's going to land some serious hits. The shield plays a major part in all this because if he launches the shield towards Batman's side, and Batman dodges it, is Batman going to be able to keep his eyes on a gun, a shield, and metal fists flying towards him at different directions?

I'll give you that Bucky isn't like any of those characters, however this is a totally different person with a totally new way of thinking and different fight patterns. Bucky is a combination of different things that give Batman a bit of an issue all at once.

Kain Echnida says:

"If Bucky's shooting at Batman's legs, **the throws the shield towards Batman and launches his arms that he controls psionically at Batman at the same time from behind him**, he's going to land some serious hits. The shield plays a major part in all this because if he launches the shield towards Batman's side, and Batman dodges it, is Batman going to be able to keep his eyes on a gun, a shield, *and* metal fists flying towards him at different directions?"

So Bucky throws the shield and then launches his left arm (just his left, I checked his bio) at Bats from the opposite direction?? Can he teleport? Is there two of him? Unless you're saying that the arm will curve around Bats to flank him, by which time Barnes is already unconscience by the time the arm gets to Bats.

Also, I'm not sure how this scenario would be possible unless Bucky set a trap for Bats; layed in ambush... and Bats just blundered into the exact spot where Bucky wanted him to be. Completely out of character for Bats.

Besides, the bullets aimed for his legs are deflected by his cape. Bats doesn't need to watch the items at all times, he just has to be aware of their trajectory. Really Bat's only intent is planting his boot in Bucky's mouth.

Sorry, despite his PR, Bucky just isn't that good.

Satyrquaze says:

"Kain Echnida says:

"If Bucky's shooting at Batman's legs, **the throws the shield towards Batman and launches his arms that he controls psionically at Batman at the same time from behind him**, he's going to land some serious hits. The shield plays a major part in all this because if he launches the shield towards Batman's side, and Batman dodges it, is Batman going to be able to keep his eyes on a gun, a shield, *and* metal fists flying towards him at different directions?"

So Bucky throws the shield and then launches his left arm (just his left, I checked his bio) at Bats from the opposite direction?? Can he teleport? Is there two of him? Unless you're saying that the arm will curve around Bats to flank him, by which time Barnes is already unconscience by the time the arm gets to Bats. Also, I'm not sure how this scenario would be possible unless Bucky set a trap for Bats; layed in ambush... and Bats just blundered into the exact spot where Bucky wanted him to be. Completely out of character for Bats. Besides, the bullets aimed for his legs are deflected by his cape. Bats doesn't need to watch the items at all times, he just has to be aware of their trajectory. Really Bat's only intent is planting his boot in Bucky's mouth. Sorry, despite his PR, Bucky just isn't that good."

The way you're making it sound is that Bucky is just going to sit there and let man go up to him and stomp him out. Bucky's no idiot and after having been Steve's sidekick for so long, I'm pretty sure he would've picked up a few of his tricks with the shield. Bucky doesn't have to launch the Shield directly at Batman, remember the shield bounces around and moves with perfect geometry. That being said, Bucky can throw the shield to the side of Batman, make it bounce off the wall and clip him somewhere on his body. I believe Bucky's arms make him stronger then Batman as well (I could be wrong) and so if Batman tries to overpower Bucky for the gun he'll fail (not like Batman would do that). Bucky's just as experienced, if not more experienced then Steve and is even younger without mercy. Like I told you, his arm is controlled psionically, and I've seen him take apart an entire SHIELD helicarrier with that arm with almost no problem. He even held his own against Tony without the shield.

Kain Echnida says:

"The way you're making it sound is that Bucky is just going to sit there and let man go up to him and stomp him out."

Funny, I was thinking the same thing when in your scenario, you had Bucky make seperate three attacks and all Bats apparently has time to do is dodge one of them.

Satyrquaze says:

"Kain Echnida says:

"The way you're making it sound is that Bucky is just going to sit there and let man go up to him and stomp him out."

Funny, I was thinking the same thing when in your scenario, you had Bucky make seperate three attacks and all Bats apparently has time to do is dodge one of them. "

I'm not sure if Batman was capable of dodging all three, a gun being shot at him multiple times, a shield being launched at him, and a flying fist all at once.

I'd have to say Batman. His utility belt is just too much for Captain America.

Kain Echnida says:

"I'm not sure if Batman was capable of dodging all three, a gun being shot at him multiple times, a shield being launched at him, and a flying fist all at once."

Really?

Cause here's a guy can take out Clayface (who is only limited by his imagination) a guy who generally attacks Bats with the same mindset that you are having Bucky use on him now, developed a countermeasures for the entire JLA, regularly holds his own against the greatest martial artists in the DCU (because he is one), has dodged more bullets over the years than Bucky has ever fired, can dodge attacks made by Bullseye, fought Captain America to a standstill when Cap had no reason to hold back.

Besides, the bullets deflect off of a bullet resistant cape, the shield is deflected by a batarang, and the arm is dodged as a explosive batarang narrowly misses Bucky's head and imbeds itself in a structually strong object nearby (like a wall) and then explodes.

Rogers could have done it, hell even Batman said Cap could do it.

This aint Cap though, Bucky can barely handle the new mantle, Batman takes it.