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#1 Posted by The_Dog_of_War (2133 posts) - - Show Bio
Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)
Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)

No Caption Provided

Hyperion (Mark Milton)
Hyperion (Mark Milton)
Wonder Man (Simon Williams)
Wonder Man (Simon Williams)

  • CIS off
  • No Prep
  • No BFR
  • Pre-New 52 Captain Marvel
  • Earth-712 Hyperion
  • Earth-616 Wonder Man
  • All characters are going all out
  • Winner by KO, or incapacitation
  • Fight takes place in Rocky Mountains
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#2 Posted by silverspidey (98 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to say Hyperion and Wonder Man for the sake that they may be more experience, but this is pretty close.

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#3 Posted by KanyeCosby (6941 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel stomps

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#4 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

What feats does this version of Hyperion has, besides one outlier fight against gladiator?

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#5 Posted by The_Dog_of_War (2133 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#7 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_dog_of_war: that's pretty unimpressive TBH. Wonder man is better than him but he can not take cap alone.

Shazam wins

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#8 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

That version of Hyperion has very limited feats to gauge his showings and Gladiator has had trouble with lesser foes. Wonder Man was also stated to be weaker than Hulk's potential power along with Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision and himself combined, and Blue Marvel was knocking him around when the Mighty Avengers fought him. Billy wins comfortably against these two.

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#9 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4462 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by EmpressOfDread (12367 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel in a good fight.

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#12 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

That version of Hyperion has very limited feats to gauge his showings and Gladiator has had trouble with lesser foes. Wonder Man was also stated to be weaker than Hulk's potential power along with Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision and himself combined, and Blue Marvel was knocking him around when the Mighty Avengers fought him. Billy wins comfortably against these two.

Wonder Man is nearly as strong as Thor and Hercules. He only loses to Thor because of the hammer, and he only loses this battle because of speed blitzing

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#13 Edited by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Man is only strong as the Thing, Colossus and Samson level at best, he can't match with Thor / Hercules level strength.

However in this fight he can create enough distraction which would help Hyperion to win.

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#14 Edited by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

Wonder Man is only strong as the Thing, Colossus and Samson level at best, he can't match with Thor / Hercules level strength.

However in this fight he can create enough distraction which would help Hyperion to win.

^^^^^This guy is spreading falsehoods. Don't listen to him^^^^^

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There's plenty more where that came from

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#15 Posted by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3 said:
@erkan12 said:

Wonder Man is only strong as the Thing, Colossus and Samson level at best, he can't match with Thor / Hercules level strength.

However in this fight he can create enough distraction which would help Hyperion to win.

^^^^^This guy is spreading falsehoods. Don't listen to him^^^^^

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There's plenty more where that came from

Congrats, you've find the most exaggerated hype ever existed in the comic books. Let's get to the reality ;

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#16 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12: Lowshowing. Also, it was in Hercules' own comic, so WM was destined to lose. Here's how the fights usually go down:

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No Caption Provided

Here's the rest of the fight: https://m.imgur.com/a/35P3t

Thor was getting his butt whooped until he starts using Mjolnir.

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#17 Edited by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio
@xlr87t3 said:
@lvenger said:

That version of Hyperion has very limited feats to gauge his showings and Gladiator has had trouble with lesser foes. Wonder Man was also stated to be weaker than Hulk's potential power along with Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision and himself combined, and Blue Marvel was knocking him around when the Mighty Avengers fought him. Billy wins comfortably against these two.

Wonder Man is nearly as strong as Thor and Hercules. He only loses to Thor because of the hammer, and he only loses this battle because of speed blitzing

I guess that means Hulk is nearly 4x stronger than Thor based on this scan then?

No Caption Provided

Also between Sentry, Blue Marvel and Hyperion, the near Thor level tier has been widened amongst Marvel's heavy hitters. Wonder Man is not near Thor anymore, not even close.

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#18 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: @lvenger: No, it means you shouldn't compare modern to classic like that. Because honestly, Marvel disrespects their more unknown heroes in modern times. Machine Man and Wonder Man used to be able to tussle with the heavy hitters, but now they cannot ad are just named fodder to slay.

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#19 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: Whatever the case, Wonder Man can no longer be considered near Thor tier. Above Ben and Colossus? Sure. But he's been knocked around by Blue Marvel whilst fighting him with Carol Danvers, Iron Man and Ares. And BM is a low high tier at best by his feats.

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#20 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Not exactly, OP never specified if this is modern or classic WM. So both versions are usable, and both for their time were consistent so OP should probably clarify. Though Modern WM and Hyperion handily lose.

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#21 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: Classic Juggernaut was hurt by Beast, Nightcrawler, and Dazzler

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#23 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: @lvenger: No, it means you shouldn't compare modern to classic like that. Because honestly, Marvel disrespects their more unknown heroes in modern times.

You should listen to yourself when you speak

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#26 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: I said you shouldn't compare modern to classic like that (that not pertaining to Juggernaut at all), I even later clarity what I meant. Not only that but it works both ways, a character can get stronger or weaker. Juggs isn't connected at all.

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#27 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_hellstorm: Um the OP clearly specifies Earth 712 Hyperion and 616 Wonder Man. Those are the versions we're supposed to debate with and for that we use current versions at the time the thread was made unless specified otherwise. Wonder Man isn't close to Thor or Hulk level, he's been surpassed by Blue Marvel and Wonder Man and is barely equals with Iron Man and Carol Danvers.

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#28 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: All of that is true, but a clarification would stop people from posting scans that are now inconsistent for WM. Because like I said, his modern and classic incarnations have different power levels and should not be compared.

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#29 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10467 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel 7-8/10.

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#30 Edited by Darth_Nimrod (2715 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by Major_Hellstrom (17355 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Edited by The_Dog_of_War (2133 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Hyperion fought Thor a couple times.

Once in Thor #280 (the fight didn't go anywhere), and once in Avengers Vol. 3 #6 (Hyperion actually got the upper hand).

Plus, there's his fight with Gladiator.

Sorry for the late reply.

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#33 Edited by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_dog_of_war: Wonder Man has also fought Thor a couple of times, and that's not even including his ionic form. In his ionic form, WM has actually significantly hurt thor by sucker-punching him.

And the gladiator fight is an outlier for Hyperion, since this hyperion doesn't operate at planet busting levels with ftl speeds.

But he should be a decent support for WM, still they lose after a tough fight

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#34 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: From Adam: Legend of the Blue Marvel #5.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

So BM can handle wonder man, Iron Man, Carol, Ares and the freaking sentry at the same time? Either BM is a lot, lot more powerful than I thought or this is an outlier

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#35 Posted by The_Dog_of_War (2133 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Hyperion still physically matched Gladiator though, it doesn't matter if he ever busted a planet or not.

I also find it a bit hypocritical that you think Hyperion's fight with Gladiator is an outlier, but not Gladiator's planet busting feat.

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#36 Edited by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_dog_of_war: Gladiator has multiple feats suggesting that he consistently operates on high tier, like knocking thor out, one-shot decapitating a nova centurion, one-shotting thing etc. He also has statements of having one-shotted moons in front of his son.

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#37 Posted by DCfan27 (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain marvel mid difficulty.

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#38 Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (4462 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: I’m inclined to say outlier but honestly similarly to Hyperion although they lack the feats they have some insanely high end feats and seem to be regarded as extremely powerful/top level in universe

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#39 Edited by DFTATM (114 posts) - - Show Bio

Shazam should easlily win this.

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#40 Edited by The_Dog_of_War (2133 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: You said Hyperion's fight against Gladiator is an outlier because Hyperion doesn't operate at planet busting levels, but Gladiator has only busted a planet once, and I wouldn't say those feats you referenced are at planet busting levels.

Hence why I think you're being a bit hypocritical; you think Gladiator's one time planet busting is fine, but Hyperion matching Gladiator is where you draw the line and claim it's an outlier.

Also, Hyperion has gone toe-to-toe with Thor a couple times, and he got the upper hand against him in Avengers Vol. 3 #6; Wonder Man had to step in and help Thor.

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#41 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: You said Hyperion's fight against Gladiator is an outlier because Hyperion doesn't operate at planet busting levels, but Gladiator has only busted a planet once,

Gladiator also has numerous statements to back up.

and I wouldn't say those feats you referenced are at planet busting levels.

They are top of the high tier feats.

Hence why I think you're being a bit hypocritical; you think Gladiator's one time planet busting is fine, but Hyperion matching Gladiator is where you draw the line and claim it's an outlier.

THe problem is that Hyperion's most feats are high mid-tier or at best Iron Man level. Not the case with Gladiator.

Also, Hyperion has gone toe-to-toe with Thor as well, and has gotten the upper hand against him in Avengers Vol. 3 #6; Wonder Man had to step in and help Thor.

Oh, will check out.

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#42 Posted by Toratorn (6709 posts) - - Show Bio

Marc and Simon can win this more often than not.

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#43 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: Blue Marvel didn't fight Sentry at the same time as he did the other Avengers. That being said, it might be an outlier.

@toratorn said:

Marc and Simon can win this more often than not.

How do 2 low high tiers beat a Superman level high tier? Hyperion lacks combat feats and is much weaker overall outside of Hickman writing him and Simon has been downgraded as well. They don't have the feats to beat Billy.

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#44 Posted by Toratorn (6709 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: they are both comparable to Thor. At least were back in the day, and I don't remember Thor becoming stronger over the years.

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#45 Posted by APEX_pretador (19668 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Simon has been downgraded as well

Has he canonically gotten weaker?

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#46 Edited by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: You can't compare classic Hyperion with current Hyperion, you have to judge them based on their own feats. And Simon has been eclipsed by Thor and Hulk in fights and feats.

@apex_pretador said:

@lvenger: Simon has been downgraded as well

Has he canonically gotten weaker?

Hulk has been stated to be more powerful than Ionic Wonder Man, Iron Man, Vision and Scarlet Witch combined. Plus with newer powerhouses like Sentry, Blue Marvel and 13034 Hyperion filling the gaps of near Thor/Hulk level heroes, Wonder Man has been pushed to the side.

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#47 Posted by Toratorn (6709 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: not talking about Classic Hype tho. 13034 Hype has enough good feats, like messing up High Evolutionary, hurting alternate Thor with heat vision (the same Thor was brawling with 616 Thor IIRC), bursting through Terminus etc, to place him in the same general tier with Thor and Cap. Marvel.

Using Hulk as a measuring stick is not a very good idea because dude tends to get stronger all the time. Apart from that, I don't remember there being a statement about WM's or Thor's power level changing, so I still count him as Thor's peer.

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#48 Posted by Lvenger (36335 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn: High Evolutionary is inconsistent and not Hyperion's average showings, the alternate Thor is basically featless and Iron Man has lobotomised Terminus before. Hyperion has also struggled to hurt a weakened Red Hulk, been taken out by a fodder Chitauri's energy laser and been KOed by electricity from a toaster in his solo series. That's not even close to being Hulk or Thor level.

Blue Marvel was able to fight Wonder Man, Iron Man, Captain Marvel and Ares together. And Thor/Hulk/Sentry would stomp BM.

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#49 Posted by Toratorn (6709 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@toratorn: High Evolutionary is inconsistent and not Hyperion's average showings, the alternate Thor is basically featless and Iron Man has lobotomised Terminus before. Hyperion has also struggled to hurt a weakened Red Hulk, been taken out by a fodder Chitauri's energy laser and been KOed by electricity from a toaster in his solo series. That's not even close to being Hulk or Thor level.

First you're talking about average showings, and in the very next sentense you're listing low-ends. Wow.

Alternate Thor was having a fight with 616 Thor in that very issue, showing them being comparable.

Wow, now resorting for low ends for Terminus. Nevermind said Terminus shrugging off Thor's blows and fighting off an entire Justice League at once. Or, you know, completely no-selling Iron Man's blasts.

Hyperion's showing include holding two planets from collapsing and stopping Rogue planet, fighting off star-busting Beyonder drones that were powerful enough to gore Thor and Starbrand, trading blows with mind-controlled Hulk, decapitating Namor and briefly clashing with Blue Marvel. So why exactly would tearing apart High Evolutionary be inconsistent with his showings, especially seeing how Hulk was able to do the same back in his classic days?

Blue Marvel was able to fight Wonder Man, Iron Man, Captain Marvel and Ares together. And Thor/Hulk/Sentry would stomp BM.

Then that was a low showing for him (Ares too, since the dude is supposed to be Hercules' equal).

Also, citation needed on Thor/Hulk/Sentry stomping BM. Especially considering Sentry fought him once and that was far from stomp.