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#551 Edited by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  Yup and despite her saying he was stronger, smarter, and faster, he never seems able to beat her. So apparently its a moot point ;) Plus he's in Rose's head. So his statement isnt disproved by the fact that he beats her.
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#552 Edited by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@FinalStar86 said:

" It's good to see that you never read any comics with Batgirl in them Batman hit her when she lost her ability Nightwing hit her when she was holding back and didn't want to fight Deathstroke hit her once in all of their fights and that was because he played mind games Shiva has the same ability that Batgirl has  You fail "

 
 i have my batgirl comic collection in the closet. : /
 
i assure you i have read them.
 
the time batman hit her was early in her series she lost her ability between issue 4 - 8, it was written in 2000.
 
that's when she 1st fought batman without her ability and got hit.. i am not referencing that moment.
 
the fight with batman in the cemetery took place yrs later well after her ability returned... so pls dont try to discredit  and insult me. 
 
Nightwing also fought her once again in the bat cave on top of a penny...
 
plus she also got beat by Mad Dog, cain's 1st failed attempt...it isnt impossible to beat Cass and you dont need to be Shiva to do it.
 http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/849044.html
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#553 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (721 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
" @thegentlemanrogue:  Yup and despite her saying he was stronger, smarter, and faster, he never seems able to beat her. So apparently its a moot point ;) Plus he's in Rose's head. So his statement isnt disproved by the fact that he beats her. "
Part of the reason that Slade hasn't beat her has a lot to do with the fact that he has never actually really fought her. There first encounter he just wanted that disc, the second time he was just luring her to Ravager. I'm not really sure what his motivation for knocking them into that building in their third fight was... if he wanted to kill them, he could have just blown the building up while they were looking through the window. Best not to think about it I suppose. If Slade was actually modivated to beat her in a fight, we would be privy to a much different fight than what we have been presented with so far.
 
I guess... but he has smashed Rose into the ground pretty soundly without playing mind games. Your stance is that there is inherit degree CIS involved because he is her farther?
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#554 Posted by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
" @thegentlemanrogue:  Yup and despite her saying he was stronger, smarter, and faster, he never seems able to beat her. So apparently its a moot point ;) Plus he's in Rose's head. So his statement isnt disproved by the fact that he beats her. "
you know Deathstroke also said he could Kill nightwing and you know what nightwing said?  
 
that he couldnt smirked and left... :)
 
that just tells you where everyone stands around one another with a certain focal point character.
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#555 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue said:
" Part of the reason that Slade hasn't beat her has a lot to do with the fact that he has never actually really fought her. There first encounter he just wanted that disc, the second time he was just luring her to Ravager. I'm not really sure what his motivation for knocking them into that building in their third fight was... if he wanted to kill them, he could have just blown the building up while they were looking through the window. Best not to think about it I suppose.
 
 If Slade was actually modivated to beat her in a fight, we would be privy to a much different fight than what we have been presented with so far.  I guess... but he has smashed Rose into the ground pretty soundly without playing mind games. Your stance is that there is inherit degree CIS involved because he is her farther? "
Its hard to say he wasn't trying in their first fight. Not to mention the fact that Cass herself appears not to be trying either. She simply easily avoids him. He tries punches, kicks, a gun, and then finally after deducing its a lost cause blows the building up. That seems lot alot of effort for someone not really trying. I agree though that in the fight where he serves her up to his daughter he wasnt trying to do anything other then soften her up. But at the same time his plan backfires when Cain slits Rose's throat. So in essence she outsmarts him. At least that's how it looked to me. The third fight he didnt want to have to blow the building up and destroy all of his and David Cain's work/assassins. He was pushed to do so do to the fact that the situation was becoming unstable. I mean he did hit her with a dumb-bell and it barely phased her. I agree with you though that it would be better if we had an actual all out brawl between the two in which to go off from.
 
I think that cuts both ways. The only time we've seen either one actually motivated to beat the other (after Slade drugged Cass and Robin freed her) Cass was one shotted by Nightwing. I'm not calling Rose's defeats to her father CIS. I'm simply pointing out that his statement was, "You're just like my daughter. There are really only two ways to beat you. From a distance, and by getting inside your head." Rose's entire history/character is based on "Daddy Issues." Deathtrsoke's inside her head without having to do anything because thats the way her character was created. He's her kryptonite if you wanna call it. Its the same reason why old ass David Cain stands any kind of a chance in his fights with Cass.
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#556 Posted by The_Ghostshell (84303 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" you know Deathstroke also said he could Kill nightwing and you know what nightwing said?    that he couldnt smirked and left... :)  that just tells you where everyone stands around one another with a certain focal point character. "
For some reason Nightwing has been giving a pace when fighting Deathstroke. Its silly in my opinion, but then again I'm not the biggest Nightwing fan. Didnt Nightwing himself say Slade could kill him? I'll try to find the scan.
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#557 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (721 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
" @thegentlemanrogue said:
" Part of the reason that Slade hasn't beat her has a lot to do with the fact that he has never actually really fought her. There first encounter he just wanted that disc, the second time he was just luring her to Ravager. I'm not really sure what his motivation for knocking them into that building in their third fight was... if he wanted to kill them, he could have just blown the building up while they were looking through the window. Best not to think about it I suppose.
 
 If Slade was actually modivated to beat her in a fight, we would be privy to a much different fight than what we have been presented with so far.  I guess... but he has smashed Rose into the ground pretty soundly without playing mind games. Your stance is that there is inherit degree CIS involved because he is her farther? "
Its hard to say he wasn't trying in their first fight. Not to mention the fact that Cass herself appears not to be trying either. She simply easily avoids him. He tries punches, kicks, a gun, and then finally after deducing its a lost cause blows the building up. That seems lot alot of effort for someone not really trying. I agree though that in the fight where he serves her up to his daughter he wasnt trying to do anything other then soften her up. But at the same time his plan backfires when Cain slits Rose's throat. So in essence she outsmarts him. At least that's how it looked to me. The third fight he didnt want to have to blow the building up and destroy all of his and David Cain's work/assassins. He was pushed to do so do to the fact that the situation was becoming unstable. I mean he did hit her with a dumb-bell and it barely phased her. I agree with you though that it would be better if we had an actual all out brawl between the two in which to go off from.  I think that cuts both ways. The only time we've seen either one actually motivated to beat the other (after Slade drugged Cass and Robin freed her) Cass was one shotted by Nightwing. I'm not calling Rose's defeats to her father CIS. I'm simply pointing out that his statement was, "You're just like my daughter. There are really only two ways to beat you. From a distance, and by getting inside your head." Rose's entire history/character is based on "Daddy Issues." Deathtrsoke's inside her head without having to do anything because thats the way her character was created. He's her kryptonite if you wanna call it. Its the same reason why old ass David Cain stands any kind of a chance in his fights with Cass. "
Yeah I agree with all this.
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#558 Posted by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
" @Dark King said:
" you know Deathstroke also said he could Kill nightwing and you know what nightwing said?    that he couldnt smirked and left... :)  that just tells you where everyone stands around one another with a certain focal point character. "
For some reason Nightwing has been giving a pace when fighting Deathstroke. Its silly in my opinion, but then again I'm not the biggest Nightwing fan. Didnt Nightwing himself say Slade could kill him? I'll try to find the scan. "
pretty sure he did when he went in to rescue either man-bat or paid off DS to leave his partner alone..
 
either way characters grow and change. you also have to look at the history between those two, how long they bn at it with one another.
 
NW isnt a push over no matter how many ppl try to discredit his skills in order to strengthen another character.
 
NW has given DS just as much trouble and embarrassing moments as Cassie.. i personally dont put cassie anymore above slade or NW then i do NW being above DS or cass.
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#559 Posted by FinalStar86 (8649 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" @Gambler said:
" @thegentlemanrogue:  Yup and despite her saying he was stronger, smarter, and faster, he never seems able to beat her. So apparently its a moot point ;) Plus he's in Rose's head. So his statement isnt disproved by the fact that he beats her. "
you know Deathstroke also said he could Kill nightwing and you know what nightwing said?    that he couldnt smirked and left... :)  that just tells you where everyone stands around one another with a certain focal point character. "
When did this happen?  One time Nightwing stated that Slade could kill him if he wanted to, then paid him to go away.  Not sure what instance you're talking about where Slade said this.
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#560 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" I have already explained to you with ON PANEL statements and facts how cap had changed his style. I don't see why there is no proof. 
Spidey was commenting on his fighting style. And his fighting style during that fight was to somehow counter his spider-sense. Like he did with his shield. 
See? Here is the proof. "
No, you haven't. The only thing you have done is speculated on the fight. What I stated is what was the facts as provided on panel. What you have done is assumed his fighting style was different just because he was fighting someone he knows. Just saying it is fact or proof does not make it so.
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#562 Posted by FinalStar86 (8649 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
"  
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/246097-142332-nightwing.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/246099-178885-nightwing.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/246100-162487-nightwing.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/8190/259731-143684-nightwing.jpg   it was during the whole Nightwing renegade story iirc... "
The reason Slade didn't kill him was because he knew that it would of turned Ravager into a good guy.  He wanted Rose to be a bad guy. 
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#563 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  

Is English your first language? What is it with this "you think she can not react to him" stuff you keep saying? I've said that her ability is only a mild advantage and she is in the same boat as any top tier MA... how do you see "she can not react to Batman," anywhere in there. 
 
I could tell you straight to your face, "I am going to punch you in 3 seconds," but that doesn't mean that the heads up is going to allow you to avoid it. Batman is a skilled fighter, he is fast and he is strong, he is trained not to telegraph his movements and capitalize when his opponent is telegraphing their own. Batgirl's ability requires that their is enough time between her reading a signal for her to carry out an effective counter... and do it again for whatever her opponents fallow up is once he is insider her hit box.... and again after that. Against a normal person she can pretty much act with complete immunity and not even worry about getting hit... but then again so can Batman and Captain America. Against a skilled fighter who is masking his intentions until the last possible moment and striking like greased lightening, her ability to read body language has never shown itself to be overtly effective. The best person it worked on has been Nightwing, and that was years ago when Nightwing couldn't even land an unwanted hand on Batman. 


 
You said that Batman was holding back, so Cassie dodging his hits is not a prove here. And i told you the even if Batman was at his best, the outcome would not be any different. Batgirl could and should accomplish the same feat. 
Both of us know that she has peak reflexes. Her reflexes alone logically should be enough to react to most of cap's moves. Add and her ability to predict movements and logically her chances of dodging his hits should be above most of any street level fighters.  
I have not seen Batman masking hit intentions while he was going to hit Cass, that's why she was able to read him obviously. I don't see why cap should do it and i have never seen cap masking his intentions until the last moment either. Why he should do it against Cass is beyond me. Also fighters like Shiva or Slade has not done that either so.... 
 
I'm still very sure that Cap will have a hard time landing any hit. 
 =] 
 
@Alurvelve:

   No, you haven't. The only thing you have done is speculated on the fight. What I stated is what was the facts as provided on panel. What you have done is assumed his fighting style was different just because he was fighting someone he knows. Just saying it is fact or proof does not make it so. 
 


So i speculated when i used a statement that Spidey himself made. So i speculated when i explained why fighters are studying their opponent. Great... 
What is your proof that cap's style was the same. I have explained with ON PANEL statements and facts on why Cap's style was different. Can you prove otherwise? 
=]
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#564 Posted by FinalStar86 (8649 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgirl wins, for the 800th time

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#565 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio
@superdemon:
Agreed, and since the main theme of Cass succes is that and her body language reading , it ts obvious Cap' pwnes here
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#566 Posted by FinalStar86 (8649 posts) - - Show Bio
@CaptainRodgers said:
" @superdemon: Agreed, and since the main theme of Cass succes is that and her body language reading , it ts obvious Cap' pwnes here "
That's all she needs, she wins due to outclassing Cap in nearly everything especially speed.
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#567 Posted by superdemon (2326 posts) - - Show Bio
@FinalStar86 said:
" @CaptainRodgers said:
" @superdemon: Agreed, and since the main theme of Cass succes is that and her body language reading , it ts obvious Cap' pwnes here "
That's all she needs, she wins due to outclassing Cap in nearly everything especially speed. "
Static Shock asked you what you were basing that off of yesterday. Did you answer him?
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#568 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
"So i speculated when i used a statement that Spidey himself made."
Yes because what you are saying it reading more into it than there was. Nowhere within that fight does Spidey comment how Cap is fighting him differently. ;)
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#569 Posted by jasraj (4923 posts) - - Show Bio
If Cap has his shield, Cass will lose
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#570 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@FinalStar86:  how exactly does she do this ?
1. cap is faster than her , he is peak human , where as Cass' has never been stated that . 
2. cap has done just as outstanding feats as her , and more 
3.Cap has far more experience taking on foes much bigger than cass 
4.Cap is stronger so she doesn't beat him there. 
5.Cap has had more training than her bein much older. 
6.Cap is equal if not better H2H combatant than her .

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#571 Edited by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio

i find it interesting that Batgirl's best feat aside from bullet dodging which every hero has one is hitting guys and the measure of her speed is a bottle falling..
 
here is a similar one for Cap
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/859213-captain_america_special_operation_zero_point_1_6.jpg
 
there is no Bottle to measure time but Cap's own observation and reference from his point of view..Clearly his speed is just as equally on par as Batgirl's big difference is Cap is fighting trained soldiers and not random gotham thugs.
 
able to dodge and outreact computerized aim. 

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848705-captainamerica26604ff3.jpg 
 
he get's complimented by a villain who states he moves as fast as Quicksilver, we know he is not but his speed is enough to make him appear superhuman to make such a comparison

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848687-avengersv103716lx9.jpg 
 
dodges a speedster
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848678-avengers15309lc.jpg 
 
Cass doesnt outclass Cap in a single damn thing.

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#572 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1658 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:
WOOP WOOP
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#573 Edited by superdemon (2326 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:

" i find it interesting that Batgirl's best feat aside from bullet dodging which every hero has one is hitting guys and the measure of her speed is a bottle falling..
 
here is a similar one for Cap
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/859213-captain_america_special_operation_zero_point_1_6.jpg
 
there is no Bottle to measure time but Cap's own observation and reference from his point of view..Clearly his speed is just as equally on par as Batgirl's big difference is Cap is fighting trained soldiers and not random gotham thugs.
 
able to dodge and outreact computerized aim. 

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848705-captainamerica26604ff3.jpg 
 
he get's complimented by a villain who states he moves as fast as Quicksilver, we know he is not but his speed is enough to make him appear superhuman to make such a comparison

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848687-avengersv103716lx9.jpg 
 
dodges a speedster
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848678-avengers15309lc.jpg   Cass doesnt outclass Cap in a single damn thing. "

Not to mention I posted a scan of Cap dodging a bullet, point blank, after the bullet was fired. Winter Soldier couldn't believe he dodged it. 
 
I also provided a scan of Cap taking out 4 thugs simultaneously. Matching it with his other speed feats, it trumps Bat girl's 4 thugs before a bottle hits the ground. 
 
Scans re-provided upon request.
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#574 Posted by Prince of Saiyans (2088 posts) - - Show Bio

Cassie

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#575 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @spidey 15 said:
"So i speculated when i used a statement that Spidey himself made."
Yes because what you are saying it reading more into it than there was. Nowhere within that fight does Spidey comment how Cap is fighting him differently. ;) "
Also nowhere spidey said that he was holding back but it's obvious that he was holding back. it does not have to be stated when it was obvious. Cap had studied him. Fighters does that to learn the fighting style of their opponent and form their own in order to counter their advantages.  
Forgive me for using logic. 
=]
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#576 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" i find it interesting that Batgirl's best feat aside from bullet dodging which every hero has one is hitting guys and the measure of her speed is a bottle falling..
 
here is a similar one for Cap
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/859213-captain_america_special_operation_zero_point_1_6.jpg
 
there is no Bottle to measure time but Cap's own observation and reference from his point of view..Clearly his speed is just as equally on par as Batgirl's big difference is Cap is fighting trained soldiers and not random gotham thugs.
 
able to dodge and outreact computerized aim. 

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848705-captainamerica26604ff3.jpg 
 
he get's complimented by a villain who states he moves as fast as Quicksilver, we know he is not but his speed is enough to make him appear superhuman to make such a comparison

 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848687-avengersv103716lx9.jpg 
 
dodges a speedster
 
 http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/11352/848678-avengers15309lc.jpg   Cass doesnt outclass Cap in a single damn thing. "
How the hell in the first scan, cap is supposed to take out 6 people under one second? 
 
Cass had dodged 4 bullets all of them were fired almost at the same time. She had no trouble dodging them 

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Here she is also dodging a bullet that almost reached her head 
No Caption Provided
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Does that speedster that is supposed to be as fast as Quicksilver has any feats that put him above spider-man??? 
 
How fast was that speedster? Was he moving faster than a bullet? 
=]
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#577 Edited by Cochise (719 posts) - - Show Bio

This is like something out of CBR...
 
Please clarify for me: If Cassandra can run faster than a bullet, why was she getting beaten like a small child by Batman when she lost her body reading ability? Why did Batman forbid her from going into the field until she learned proper defense? Why was she so desperate to get her body reading back?

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#578 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
"Also nowhere spidey said that he was holding back but it's obvious that he was holding back. it does not have to be stated when it was obvious. Cap had studied him. Fighters does that to learn the fighting style of their opponent and form their own in order to counter their advantages.  Forgive me for using logic. =] "
What I am saying that you are speculating on is still in question. What I have said is fact.
Spider-man comments on Caps fighting. How it's not just one move, but a continuous flow.
You are speculating that Cap was fighting that way just because he was against Spider-man. Not absurd logic.
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#579 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Spidey was commenting on their fight. They fight they had now. You are speculating that cap's style was his regular as much i speculating the opposite. 
 
But even if it was indeed that his regular style, it does not prove much. Spidey was holding back, is unskilled and for that reason he was not able to fight effectively against cap. So he was able to hit him just like every other person skilled or not skilled had done. 
=]
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#581 Posted by superdemon (2326 posts) - - Show Bio
@superdemon said:
" @FinalStar86 said:
" @CaptainRodgers said:
" @superdemon: Agreed, and since the main theme of Cass succes is that and her body language reading , it ts obvious Cap' pwnes here "
That's all she needs, she wins due to outclassing Cap in nearly everything especially speed. "
Static Shock asked you what you were basing that off of yesterday. Did you answer him? "
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#582 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King: Seriously weren't you the one who start posting dodging feats. I post them to show that cap is not any faster than the girl that dodged 4 bullets from a small distance all of them being shotted at the same time or when she dodged a bullet that almost touched her head or the girl that was fast enough to move her legs and fists at different directions in order to beat 6 guys under only ONE second. 
What you've just posted is not any impressive. 
Also how beating soldiers is more impressive than beating ninjas, or holding your own against Deathstroke, or beating Raveger or stalemating Lady Shiva etc.... 
 
Also you dared to post the PIS scan of cap outrunning a bullet. 
How about me starting using PIS too and post this? 
No Caption Provided
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#583 Posted by SystemID (448 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15:  Oh, you mean the scan that was already used to attempt to prove a point in this thread on page seven.. someone beat ya to it.
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#584 Edited by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap twist and turns in mid air to block multiple machine gunfire coming from different angles


http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61080/1334189-acapprettyfast_super.jpg

  sees faster
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37849/1465219-680807_640328_ca17016cd2_super_super_super.jpg 
 
 
 Tucks and rolls without his shield into a hail of machine gun fire avoiding them all.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:2kcLfHayWPL-eM:http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4099/captainamerica34910wn5.jpg&t=1
 
  Cap out reacts Bucky gun fire.. swings his shield hits him and blocks the bullet b4 it even reaches him.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/61080/1385586-1360769_1120392_ca14016zs1_super_super_super.jpg

 bullet feats in general are not very reliable but if we wanna go on them i suggest we use the ones that are repeatable and explained, Cap's history allows him to use them as more then reasonable speed feats. along with other characters interpretation of Cap.
 
We know Steve sees faster more then a handful of ppl have stated Cap's physical attributes trump their own enhanced attributes from: Cable, Bucky, Black Panther and assortment of superhuman villains in speeds, strength stamina etc etc..
 
Cass fights ninja nobody scrubs with mediocre MA skills and no history... big deal
 
Cap fights: Hydra, the Hand, Aim, Shield which are also fodder difference being they are better trained with gear like machine guns not just swords and throwing knives and a hand gun.
 
Cass swayed between 3 bullets from a hand gun fired by a gangster nobody...
 
Cap swayed from machine gun heavy artillery, do you know how much faster a heavy artillery rifle bullets travel compared to a hand gun? their is a big difference in what  Cass faces day to day and what cap faces day to day... she moved from a sniper gun fire that's cool what, one time?  where is the consistency for that feat?
 
Cap dodges sniper, machine gun, hand gun fire to Laser fire regularly and consistently, so why doesnt anyone put more weight to his feats?
 
unlike Cass, Cap has legitimately bn referenced to be superhuman not just peak and not just from scientist but other superhumans..... a non engineered natural peak human MVP wasnt even near Cap's level of physical  attributes and he was a peak human.
 
so many ppl have Cassie so twisted in her feats they have ppl believing she is a remote match for cap, spreading false propaganda that she cant be touched that they post scans of her dodging her opponent and leaving out inbetween scans of her also getting hit to spread the lie..
 
she is peak for her weight and Class
not Peak in Captain America's Weight and Class...
 
 
she has years to go and needs to amass legitimate decisive wins with known enhanced characters before she is even considered equal to Cap and catching some shurikens and fighting her mom or slade isnt good enough... she is no better then Bat's, Nightwing or DD.... and at the end of the day there is nothing wrong with her MA placement and the company she keeps.
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#585 Posted by SystemID (448 posts) - - Show Bio

If this were a court of law. Cap has waaaaay more hard evidence. Just saying.
 
..and with that said. This thread should die.

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#586 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King: You still post scans that proves no superiority. 
 
Oh, so ninjas are nobodies... 
So does soldiers. 
Also who hasn't beaten the Hand? Daredevil has done that and Wolverine has done that. Hell even people with no skills has done that like spidey. 
Oh and i recall an instance when Cap needed the help of Logan in order to beat some Hand Ninjas. Everyone that you named is not a big deal. 
 
It does not matter from what weapon a bullet has been thrown, when it actually almost touches your head and you are still able to dodge it. Try to see the scans better next time. 
 =]
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#587 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@SystemID said:
" @spidey 15:  Oh, you mean the scan that was already used to attempt to prove a point in this thread on page seven.. someone beat ya to it. "
I just posted to to show him that if he wants to use PIS, i can do it too. 
=]
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#588 Posted by SystemID (448 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:
" @SystemID said:
" @spidey 15:  Oh, you mean the scan that was already used to attempt to prove a point in this thread on page seven.. someone beat ya to it. "
I just posted to to show him that if he wants to use PIS, i can do it too. =] "
I know. =)
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#589 Edited by Dark King (4029 posts) - - Show Bio

you are right everyone has fought ninjas that's my point but the difference is some have fought other types of cannon fodder as well in herds... and i never claimed DD was superior to Cass, i  strongly believe they are similar and equal. But, Cass has a long way to go if you are gonna compare to what Wolverine has done or Captain America..
 
when's the last time Cassie fought a trained army with Uzi's or a thousand ninjas out in the open?

 
and if you wanna keep playing this game of bullet reaction when was the last time cassie swiped and blocked Laser fire or machine gun fire at different angle.. you got one feat and you are milking it for all its worth, sadly Cap has more and her little Bullet feat is no more impressive then the one Cap has where he hits bucky with his shield who is in front of him before the bullet reaches Cap.. you wanna quibble over artistic interpretation  and timing then have at it.
 
tell everyone in the forum how the bullet is drawn pull out a ruler and measure travel speed but dont forget to do it with Cap and his machine gun fire weaving how fast he have to be to weave between them while all three are traveling at the same speed and are frozen still from cap's point of view as he moves... go ahead measure how fast he would have to be to block and dodge Laser fire how fast a particle weapon moves compared to a bullet.. how fast was the bucky bullet traveling and how fast did cap move that  might be hard since the bullet isnt drawn..
 
oh, i know it was magic and invisible  its moving so fast that even the reader cant see it which makes it faster then the one drawn in cassies feat.(makes it even better feat).
 
We've seen Cap move faster then bullets from running toward them out throwing his shield be it reaches its target to also out reacting laser fire point blank and computerized targeting.
 
Cap doesnt need body reading to see and know when to dodge an attack or weave between them.. Can Cass say the same when she is facing robotic machines that doesnt generate a tell or telegraph their attack?
 
she's bn hit by a Gorilla meta, grabbed by a thug brick, beat and stabbed by Mad Dog, Batman, Nighhtwing, Shiva, Gemini.... Worse part is that four of those opponents and the method in which Cass was tagged wouldnt even manage to lay a finger on Cap.. but you want ppl to believe she is too fast b/c she has 2 or 3 scans of cool artistic art work that was made what 10 yrs ago?
 
where is her consistency where is her modern feats of her bullet dodging at close range? 
 
Hell, Ironfist, Shang Chi, Daredevil have old school bullet feats from the 60 and 70's and even more recent ones that give them better legitimacy then Cass and i sure wouldnt say they could win or beat Cap in a h2h fight let alone claim a small army of ninjas are the same as a trained army of soldier with Machine gun fire and aerial support or claim they could replicate Wolverine's thousand man ninja battle.
 
Birdy, Sabretooth's  assistant has killed a herd of ninja's with nothing more then a machine gun mowing them down as if they were nothing, that is the difference between pajama wearing and a automatic caliber weapons.
 
How about we start posting modern repeatable feats for Cass or are we gonna rely on some scans from her 1st appearance and using her memory of the events.

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#590 Posted by Mackeja (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta say, I've been following this thread since y'all started arguing, and by the arguments being made, Cap has this in the bag. That's not to say that Spidey 15 isn't debating with great skill, (he is), but the fight is kinda one-sided, and the arguments throughout this thread demonstrate it.
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#591 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:  
Let's see. 
You are saying that Cass can not do what cap has done because she has never done it. But why don't you try to see how she accomplished those feats before you say that she can not do any better than it. 
Cass has dodged 4 bullets after they were fired, all at the same time and Cassandra was moving at different directions. Also there was not a long distance between them. So since she accomplished that feat with great ease, she has proved that she can dodge a lot faster things. 
Also how about the time that she has dodged a bullet that was almost touching her head. She dodged that with ease it too. So this is another proof that she can dodge a lot faster things than bullets. 
I have no doubt that dodging from only 2 of her feats( she obviously has a lot more than that ) she can accomplish similar feats with cap. 
Do you also remember the feat where Cass was moving so fast that made some guys lose their balance with her speed alone? 
Cap has never done that, but seeing from his other feats, i can assure you he can do it too. 
You don't have to do the feat in order to know if someone else can do it too. You can judge from the way they have accomplished their other feats.  
 
So you are keeping using the bad written feat where cap has outrun a bullet. Something that even spider-man BARELY did while he was swinging with speed a lot greater than cap's. 
Do you really want me to use Cass's feat of outrunning a bullet as well?  
 
Cass has already peak human reflexes seeing from her feats. Those reflexes alone( that are actually DD's level ) are enough for me to know that she will be able to dodge cap( not saying that cap can not react to her hits ). So having the ability to read your opponent on the level that Cass dose is a great bonus for her. Those statements like " the body reading is not a big advantage against top MA " does not make sense. Most people have dodged other character's with their reaction time alone. Cass has equal reaction time but the advantage of having the ability to predict what her opponents will do. So unless they used their knowledge and skills, tagging Cassandra should not make any sense. She has the reaction to dodge them and the ability to predict their moves. 
Unless cap is aware of that ability, i don't see her laying any hand on her. Unless he realized that, before he would be beaten. Then i could see him taking the win. 
 
I'm pretty sure that using bullet timing feats does not help much here because everyone has been hit by slower things than a bullet, including cap himself. People were just skilled enough to do it. If Cass were having only her peak reflexes, then i would be sure as hell that cap could win this fight because he would be skilled enough to tag and beat her. 
But no, Cass would know what will be Cap's next move so she should be able to dodge him for the most part of their fight.  
But if Cap knew about her ability, he should be able to mask his intention and reveal his next move in the last moment and tag her. 
But without having that knowledge and by using logic and powers, i see Cass taking a small majority over cap. 
=] 
 
@Mackeja said:
" Gotta say, I've been following this thread since y'all started arguing, and by the arguments being made, Cap has this in the bag. That's not to say that Spidey 15 isn't debating with great skill, (he is), but the fight is kinda one-sided, and the arguments throughout this thread demonstrate it. "
Thank you and i understand your opinion. 
There is nothing wrong believing that cap could win this. 
=]
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#592 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio

Btw, Cap dodging laser it's either PIS or he didn't dodge the laser but he dodged the aim. 
=]

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#593 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15 said:

" @Alurvelve: Spidey was commenting on their fight. They fight they had now. You are speculating that cap's style was his regular as much i speculating the opposite. "

Here is the scan. Read the word bubbles so that maybe you can understand what it is I have been saying. Spider-man is the one talking about how he has seen him fight dozens of times (referring to Steve). That Spidey has tried to study his moves, but until this moment he realized that there are no 'moves'. There is just one move from start to finish.
 
So again I'll repeat myself. You are the one who speculated that Steve was fighting differently than he normally does. This here is actual proof against your logic.
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#594 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve: Exactly. Spider-man has realized that, during his fight with cap. He realized that while he saw cap fighting against him. How do you know that he was talking generally and not about how he saw you him during that specific style. How do you know that what spidey comments, was not only about the fight that they had? 
 
But even if i'm wrong on that. I have already addressed the possibility if being that one, cap's style. Spidey's lack of skills, the fact that he was holding back and that he respected cap a lot and that he could not really fight effectively, allowed to cap to land those hits. Many people have manage to tag spidey for similar reasons except a few. Imagine now that cap had more advantages than those other characters. Then obviously he could tag him. Something that does not really apply with Cass. 
=]
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#595 Edited by Cochise (719 posts) - - Show Bio

There really isn't anything in this scene to suggest that Cap was using a particular style against Spider-Man. Spidey was commenting on Cap's general fighting technique. 
 
As for holding back... Just because people aren't fighting to kill doesn't mean they're holding back. Professional boxers and MMA fighters aren't holding back. You could just as easily say that Cap was holding back since he wasn't trying to kill Spidey, right? For that matter, you can say the same thing about Cassandra's fights with Shiva and Batman... They weren't trying to kill her so they were holding back.
 

@spidey 15

said:

" @Alurvelve: Exactly. Spider-man has realized that, during his fight with cap. He realized that while he saw cap fighting against him. How do you know that he was talking generally and not about how he saw you him during that specific style. How do you know that what spidey comments, was not only about the fight that they had?  But even if i'm wrong on that. I have already addressed the possibility if being that one, cap's style. Spidey's lack of skills, the fact that he was holding back and that he respected cap a lot and that he could not really fight effectively, allowed to cap to land those hits. Many people have manage to tag spidey for similar reasons except a few. Imagine now that cap had more advantages than those other characters. Then obviously he could tag him. Something that does not really apply with Cass. =] "
 
 

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#596 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Cochise: OK, can you prove that spidey was commenting on his general fighting technique please??? 
 
I can only see spidey commenting this: " ...But Until this moment, I never realized...." 
It seems that spidey realized how cap was fighting the moment that that they were fighting. So, i can easily assume that he was commenting on this specific fighting style that cap used that MOMENT. 
Of course i might be wrong on that. I admit that i might be wrong. I just speculated that because there is no other way. But i would like to see what is your proof that suggest otherwise without using speculation  too!!! 
=P =P =P =P
And as i said, even if that was cap's fighting style and not a new one. It does not really matter here. Many people manage to tag spider-man before. Skilled and unskilled people. 
Oh and when i said that he was holding back, i didn't mean that he was holding back to the point that he won't kill him. I meant that he was holding back to the point that he does not use his full speed, agility and strength so he won't KO him with the first hit. That's why DD, Iron Fist and even Kingpin or Punisher has tagged spidey with their fists or they survive hits from him. 
Also, spidey lacks skills, focus( as cap has stated before ), he constantly holds backs and he does not utilize his powers and he respects cap a lot. 
I mean seriously. It's very stupid to compare how cap fought spidey with how he will fight Cass. Cap accomplished what many people( skilled and unskilled ) have done. 
=]
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#597 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15: All of that 'How do you know' stuff you commented on is speculation from you. As you want to read more into it than there is so that it helps your case. It is that plain and simple.
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#598 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:

" @spidey 15: All of that 'How do you know' stuff you commented on is speculation from you. As you want to read more into it than there is so that it helps your case. It is that plain and simple. "

I know it's speculation.
But can you prove your point without speculating too? 
I used speculation on purpose in order to show you that. 
We are debating something that it can not be proven without speculation, so there is no point on debating on it. 
But even if you were right( something not sure of course ) your point has been already addressed by that statement. 

 But even if i'm wrong on that. I have already addressed the possibility if being that one, cap's style. Spidey's lack of skills, the fact that he was holding back and that he respected cap a lot and that he could not really fight effectively, allowed to cap to land those hits. Many people have manage to tag spidey for similar reasons except a few. Imagine now that cap had more advantages than those other characters. Then obviously he could tag him. Something that does not really apply with Cass. 
=]    

So, again using cap's fight with spidey in that thread, does not really help much. 
=]
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#599 Posted by deactivated-5ab1ccc482197 (3669 posts) - - Show Bio
@spidey 15:  I used a scan which does nothing but help my case. It mentions Spider-man has studied his fighting before. And it was not until that point in which he realized that there is no moves, but one move from start to finish. Nothing touches on his fighting being different. So it is not speculation on my part. I am not adding in anything to this encounter. That is what you have done by suggesting Cap was fighting him differently.
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#600 Posted by spidey 15 (17883 posts) - - Show Bio
@Alurvelve said:
" @spidey 15:  I used a scan which does nothing but help my case. It mentions Spider-man has studied his fighting before. And it was not until that point in which he realized that there is no moves, but one move from start to finish. Nothing touches on his fighting being different. So it is not speculation on my part. I am not adding in anything to this encounter. That is what you have done by suggesting Cap was fighting him differently. "
OK, so commenting that he has not realized that until the moment that they fight, means nothing to you?  
Spidey obviously was commenting on what he saw during that fight. And what he saw might be different from cap's fighting style or it might be the same. 
So no, we can't be sure unless we speculate that. 
=]