Captain America vs Achilles (read rules)

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Penderor

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#1  Edited By Penderor
  • Captain America gets regular steal shield.
  • Captain America has only movie feats.
  • Achilles has his armour and America gets armor of equal quality.
  • Achilles gets shield, steel sword, javelin and spear.
  • America is aware of Achilles's weakness.
  • Zeus and Stan Lee approved this thread so its okay.
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UFT

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so its movie achilles?

been done. and cap wins majority. movie achilles had no "special weakness". he was just a peak human.

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WarBlade539

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*decapitates Achilles using Shield*
"It just slipped."

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Penderor

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#4  Edited By Penderor

@uft: He died from being shot into heel. He tanked three arrows with ease. And Cap is peak human as well, so I dont see your point.

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captain_batman_FTW

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Captain America wins. Handily.

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Helicoprion

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mtuske

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@penderor: Peak human in comic book terms. He's a multi tonner easy.

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WarBlade539

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@penderor said:

@uft: He died from being shot into heel. He tanked three arrows with ease. And Cap is peak human as well, so I dont see your point.

Peak human? No. Low-level Superhuman? Yes.

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rogueshadow

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#10 rogueshadow  Moderator

I'm gonna go with Cap... slight edge. He has no special weakness, that's made clear when he says he wouldn't need the shield if he were invulnerable when the child asks him, or something to that effect.

@penderor said:

@uft: He died from being shot into heel. He tanked three arrows with ease. And Cap is peak human as well, so I dont see your point.

Peak human? No. Low-level Superhuman? Yes.

He's peak in the sense that he is literally the peak of what any human could ever achieve in our evolutionary process and still be considered a Homo sapien.

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Chimeroid

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#11  Edited By Chimeroid

Achilles can win this. They are equal in strength, speed and skill but he is literally invulnerable except for his heel. One question tho, does Achilles know about his weakness as well?

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WarBlade539

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I'm gonna go with Cap... slight edge. He has no special weakness, that's made clear when he says he wouldn't need the shield if he were invulnerable when the child asks him, or something to that effect.

@WarBlade539 said:

@penderor said:

@uft: He died from being shot into heel. He tanked three arrows with ease. And Cap is peak human as well, so I dont see your point.

Peak human? No. Low-level Superhuman? Yes.

He's peak in the sense that he is literally the peak of what any human could ever achieve in our evolutionary process and still be considered a Homo sapien.

Speculation at best. We ourselves are the result of 4.5 million years (give or take a few million years) of evolution. To be able to do the things that Cap does; throwing motorbikes at approx. 100kmph, throwing Shields with pinpoint precision and with sufficient force to pierce armored-aircraft hull, survive getting thrown off a bridge at speeds sufficient to kill normal people, kick people meters away; we would require some ridiculous muscle and bone density that is just not possible for real-life Homo sapiens. And there is no way to determine whether or not we would ever evolve to that level or how many million years it would take, assuming Human-Civilization still exists by then.

Besides, peak-human in comics refers to the physical and mental peak that humans can achieve through sheer training and without any enhancements whatsoever and not what we can evolve to, at least in my understanding.

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Penderor

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#13  Edited By Penderor

@mtuske: Movie version is multi tonner? Lol.

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Penderor

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rogueshadow

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#15 rogueshadow  Moderator

@WarBlade539: I'm pretty sure it was stated in a comic, though I can't remember which. The serum essentially optimised human DNA, drawing out the absolute maximum latent genetic potential that we as a species could garner. It really makes no sense, I know.

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WarBlade539

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#16  Edited By WarBlade539

@penderor said:

@WarBlade539: Prove?

Multi-tonner? Can't say for sure. Superhuman? F**k yes!

Just watch TWS. His strength and agility are quite clearly beyond normal-humans. Jumping off of a plane, hundreds of meters above sea-level without a parachute, kicking people meters away, jumping the distance between two buildings and bulldozing through doors like toilet-paper, throwing the Shield with ridiculous precision through the armor of a Quinjet, breaching the Quinjet's hull through a mid-air strike, getting thrown off the bridge at speeds sufficient to kill any normal person only to walk off unscathed, jumping from ridiculous heights.

And most recently, apparently throwing a bike at a high-enough velocity to almost rip an oncoming jeep in half. Most likely greater than 60 kmph.

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WarBlade539

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@WarBlade539: I'm pretty sure it was stated in a comic, though I can't remember which. The serum essentially optimised human DNA, drawing out the absolute maximum latent genetic potential that we as a species could garner. It really makes no sense, I know.

Ah. Okay.
But was it ever stated in the movie? I vaguely remember Dr. Erskine saying something about the serum turning 'good' into 'better' and 'bad' into 'worse'.

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rogueshadow

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#18 rogueshadow  Moderator

@WarBlade539: No, but I don't think you could consider the stuff Cap does as just peak human, peak humans can't toss bikes through army jeeps, he's clearly enhanced far beyond that, so I'm just suggesting that that may be the logic behind it.

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mtuske

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@penderor: If you can effortlessly hold a motorcycle over your head with 3 people on it and throw a motorcycle as if it were a toy and rip thru a jeep your upper limits are easily there.

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xtreme1

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#20  Edited By xtreme1

Hmmm this is a tough one. Achilles gets sword, spear, and shield, while Cap only gets a steel shield (not his Marvel shield). If they both had the same weapons then I'd go with Cap without hesitation, but Achilles was the boss with a full load out of weapons. I'm not sure...

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WarBlade539

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Cap breaks Achilles.

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UFT

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he is literally invulnerable except for his heel.

"then i wouldn't be bothering with a shield or armor, would i?"

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mtuske

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#23  Edited By mtuske

@chimeroid: How is he invulnerable everywhere but his Achilles?

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Penderor

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@WarBlade539: Achilles speedblitzed humans and threw javelin at least 100 meters with great precision into the neck of enemy soldier. Thats superhuman as well, since that spear flew horizontally.

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WarBlade539

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@penderor said:

@WarBlade539: Achilles speedblitzed humans and threw javelin at least 100 meters with great precision into the neck of enemy soldier. Thats superhuman as well, since that spear flew horizontally.

Cap blitzed humans as well. Sending them meters, I might add.

Good for him. Cap threw his Shield through the hull of an armored, futuristic aircraft. Now imagine what happens if he chucks that steel-shield through Achilles' head. Yeah.

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Penderor

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@chimeroid: America has weakness? I can add that to OP.

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Penderor

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rogueshadow

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#28 rogueshadow  Moderator

@mtuske said:

@chimeroid: How is he invulnerable everywhere but his Achilles?

He isn't in the film, but in myth he was dipped into the Styx by his heels, thereby making them the only part of him not invulnerable.

Why he didn't ask them to do the same thing again but by his hands to cover the rest I don't f*cking know.

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Chimeroid

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@penderor: sry, i was being not precise enough, i cant remember if achilles knew about his own weakness... Been 11 years since i have watched that film.

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Penderor

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#30  Edited By Penderor

@rogueshadow said:

@mtuske said:

@chimeroid: How is he invulnerable everywhere but his Achilles?

He isn't in the film, but in myth he was dipped into the Styx by his heels, thereby making them the only part of him not invulnerable.

Why he didn't ask them to do the same thing again but by his hands to cover the rest I don't f*cking know.

Well, it seems that in the movie he is as well. Or at least has a very high pain tolerance/durability. He took a hit into his armor from Hector sword and acted like nothing happened. Then took five arrows in his body, but obviously died (somehow) from the first one in heel.

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deactivated-5e8a1f5fafc4e

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lol @ Cap stomping Achilles. He wins in a hard fight.

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rogueshadow

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#32 rogueshadow  Moderator

@penderor said:

@rogueshadow said:

@mtuske said:

@chimeroid: How is he invulnerable everywhere but his Achilles?

He isn't in the film, but in myth he was dipped into the Styx by his heels, thereby making them the only part of him not invulnerable.

Why he didn't ask them to do the same thing again but by his hands to cover the rest I don't f*cking know.

Well, it seems that in the movie he is as well. Or at least has a very high pain tolerance/durability. He took a hit into his armor from Hector sword and acted like nothing happened. Then took five arrows in his body, but obviously died (somehow) from the first one in heel.

Definitely not invulnerable:

Messenger Boy: Are the stories true? They say your mother was an immortal godess. They say you can't be killed.

Achilles: I wouldn't be bothering with the shield then, would I?

Hector's slash only grazed his armour, the other one hit his boot as I remember it.

I don't think it was the one in the heel that killed him, it was just a play on the myth.

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Chimeroid

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#33  Edited By Chimeroid

well, if achilles doesnt have his powers/profecies than he is just a regular bloke... he loses 10/10

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mtuske

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@penderor: In the movie he isn't anywhere close to invulnerable anywhere on his body. That's why he has a shield and armor. He just has high pain tolerance.

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Penderor

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@rogueshadow: Its still a blunt force thought. Plus, the boy said he cant be killed, while even in myth Achilles isnt really invulnerable.

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mtuske

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@penderor: The boy was just talking out his butt. Achilles got killed so that statement was clearly false and just the wishful thinking of his hero.

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rogueshadow

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#37 rogueshadow  Moderator

@penderor: Only in later myths is he invulnerable, in the Iliad I'm pretty sure he gets wounded.

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Penderor

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@rogueshadow: Being killed with arrow in the heel isnt really invulnerability. I dont remember any myth where he survives lol.

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rogueshadow

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#39 rogueshadow  Moderator

@penderor: He was dipped in the River Styx by his heels, so he was invulnerable everywhere but there. He can likely still be choked out though, Nemean lion style.

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mickey-mouse

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Cap wins handily. Although Achilles is 100 of times more skilled than Cap, that doesn't close the gap on physicals. Achilles might confuse cap with swordsmanship for the first few mins of the fight, then Cap would just overwhelm him with brute force and toss him like a motorbike.

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#41  Edited By mickey-mouse

@penderor said:

@mtuske: Movie version is multi tonner? Lol.

Multi tonner...well hell no. Superstrong 2+ tonner, maybe more. Yep.

Stupid me. Multi means more than 1, not double digits.

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ParagonNate

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Achilles in the movie wasn't superhuman he was just so skilled that no one managed to hit him, making everyone believe that he was invulnerable when he really wasn't. Achilles died not from the arrow to the heel but rather the three arrows that Paris shot him with after, you see him pull one out with blood on it meaning that they did damage. Since he isn't superhuman then the arrow to the heel wasn't anymore lethal than it would have been to a normal human, meaning that the arrows to the chest are what killed him. His stats also aren't anywhere near Caps, Steve survived a fall from an extreme height into the ocean as well as a leap from several stories up through a steel support beam and onto solid concrete. Cap's strikes sent full grown armored men flying and he has the situational awareness to ricochet his shield around objects and take out enemies behind cover as well throw it with enough force to embed it in a steel bulkhead and leave cuts in solid metal surfaces. Cap could kill Bradchilles with any solid hit with his shield and probably beat him even when he is unarmed and Achilles has his gear, given how powerful Steve's strikes are. Achilles doesn't really have anything that gives him any hope of winning really.

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mtuske

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@lukehero: Multi means more than 1. He's more than one. If you can throw a motorcycle that fast you are in the multi ton range.

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ParagonNate

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@lukehero:

Eh I'd say that Steve is just as skilled with his shield as Achilles is with his weapons, it's just that Caps fighting style is going to be so alien to Achilles while the opposite isn't necessarily true. Bucky's knife fighting might not be exactly like sword fighting but it's a lot closer than how Achilles is used to opponents using their shields versus how Cap will be using his. Just because Cap isn't trained in classic shield/weapon styles doesn't mean he isn't skilled with his.

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mickey-mouse

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@mtuske: Oh. Well then. Never mind. :p I don't no why I took it as in double digits.

@paragonnate: I think Achilles is much more well trained and is using skill to out due his opponents rather than overpowering them like Cap tends to due. I do suspect we will be seeing more skill feats from Cap in this Age of Ultron and especially Cap3 though. Chris said they are trying to improve Cap's fighting style in every film. But, we are splitting hairs here, we both agree Cap wins regardless and even First Avenger Cap would beat down Achilles through pure brute strength.

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Apocalypse3

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Achilles.

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Penderor

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@rogueshadow: Thats arguable if he can be choked. And if he can be damaged, then he isnt really invulnerable as I said previously.

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rogueshadow

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#48 rogueshadow  Moderator

@penderor: He can't be damaged anywhere but his heels, that's the myth. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

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Penderor

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@rogueshadow: Because Achilles's magical protect is not fullfiling the definition of invulnerability. Mostly, because he can be damaged in one part of his body.

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mickey-mouse

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;/ There is no proof movie Achilles was invulnerable. It was never tested, it's just hogwash. Sure Greek/Roman myth Achilles is, but not the movie.