Captain America (movie version) vs Achilles

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the_stegman

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#1  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

-Morals OFF for both opponents 
-fight takes place in gladiator arena  
-No prep
- Cap gets his shield 
- Achilles gets an Adamantium sword 
-fight til death or k.o 
-who wins?? 
 

vs 
vs 

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progenitorigin

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#2  Edited By progenitorigin

Achilles takes this, way more skilled in combat, by a large margin. 
 
  
  
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Enzeru--defunct

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#3  Edited By Enzeru--defunct

I'm giving it to Cap.
 
I don't know how or when he learned to fight in the movie after he transformed, but he was able to fight and I'm seeing a current (or 70 years old) fighting style being more effective then that they had back in Achille's time.
The movie Cap is a more then a peak human, so he would be faster and stronger then Achilles. Faster reflexes and so on. He should be able to knock Achilles with one direct hit out.

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progenitorigin

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#4  Edited By progenitorigin
@Enzeru said:
I'm giving it to Cap.  I don't know how or when he learned to fight in the movie after he transformed, but he was able to fight and I'm seeing a current (or 70 years old) fighting style being more effective then that they had back in Achille's time. The movie Cap is a more then a peak human, so he would be faster and stronger then Achilles. Faster reflexes and so on. He should be able to knock Achilles with one direct hit out.

Movie Cap was basically origins.  All the combat he knew seemed to be from textbooks and street fights from him having mentioned always getting his @ss handed to him, before he was transformed.  At most, I would say Cap knew some boxing due to the way he was working the punching bag at the end of the movie, so some boxing and street fighting, still green, against a seasoned warrior against Achilles is still a wide margin.  Cap does have superior physical stats, but Achilles showed great reflex skills during combat, not taking a single hit from Hector, who was considered one of, if not the greatest warrior in Troy.  Basically, it comes down to skill vs. physicality, and I think that Achilles is fast enough to hold his own--and defeat movie Cap.
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STR1

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#5  Edited By STR1

Movie Cap takes this. Steve Rogers after all is way above human level in abilities, reflexes, strength etc. Achilles did show good reflexes but after all he is still just a "regular" human. One good hit from Cap and it will put a hurting on Achilles compared to the other way around.
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Saren

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#6  Edited By Saren

Achilles.

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Ruhi_Tugu--defunct

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This is how I see it happening. Only the guy throws a shield instead of a spear.
 
  

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cascadeking09

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#8  Edited By cascadeking09

I'll give it to Steve, his enhancements would be too much for Achilles to deal with.

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_Marco_Smith_

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#9  Edited By _Marco_Smith_
@Ruhi_Tugu: He makes everyone speak Italian?
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Ruhi_Tugu--defunct

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@_Marco_Smith_: Huh? I'm at work and don't have sound here.
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_Marco_Smith_

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#11  Edited By _Marco_Smith_
@Ruhi_Tugu: The vid you posted isn't in English :P
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Ruhi_Tugu--defunct

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@_Marco_Smith_: Whatever what they say isn't important. It's what they do.
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Saren

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#13  Edited By Saren

Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?

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_Marco_Smith_

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#14  Edited By _Marco_Smith_
@Ruhi_Tugu: I know, just poking fun.
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progenitorigin

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#15  Edited By progenitorigin
@CitizenBane said:
Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?

That's the mythology, in the movie they basically tried making it more "realistic," however, they never implied that Achilles was actually a normal human, and the only way Achilles died was after Paris shot him in the ankle, just like the myth.
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cascadeking09

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#16  Edited By cascadeking09
@CitizenBane said:
Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?
That's the myth, that wasn't explored in the movie version they only alluded to it.
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Ruhi_Tugu--defunct

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@CitizenBane said:
Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?
Yeah, thats what the legends say.
 
@_Marco_Smith_: Well thanks for telling me, since I couldn't find out for myself. Their mouths are moving like they're speaking English.
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Saren

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#18  Edited By Saren
@progenitor said:
@CitizenBane said:
Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?
That's the mythology, in the movie they basically tried making it more "realistic," however, they never implied that Achilles was actually a normal human, and the only way Achilles died was after Paris shot him in the ankle, just like the myth.
Yeah, and when they found his body he had ripped out all the arrows except the one in his heel, echoing the legend that it was his only weak spot.
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progenitorigin

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#19  Edited By progenitorigin
@CitizenBane said:
@progenitor said:
@CitizenBane said:
Wasn't Achilles practically invincible? His only weak spot was his heel?
That's the mythology, in the movie they basically tried making it more "realistic," however, they never implied that Achilles was actually a normal human, and the only way Achilles died was after Paris shot him in the ankle, just like the myth.
Yeah, and when they found his body he had ripped out all the arrows except the one in his heel, echoing the legend that it was his only weak spot.

Exactly.
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cascadeking09

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#20  Edited By cascadeking09
@Ruhi_Tugu said:

This is how I see it happening. Only the guy throws a shield instead of a spear.
 
  

  
  This scene is better. This was the only one that I could find that wasn't covered with crappy music.
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Enzeru--defunct

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#21  Edited By Enzeru--defunct
@progenitor said:
  Basically, it comes down to skill vs. physicality, and I think that Achilles is fast enough to hold his own--and defeat movie Cap.
Then it's the same like the Deathstroke vs Taskmaster thread in here, where noone sees Taskmaster winning, even though he is more skilled thanks to his power then Deathstroke. Deathstroke is still ending as the winner for the most of the people, because he has stronger physical stats :-X
Taskmaster = Achilles
Deatstroke = Captain America
 
However, the Achilles in the movie wasn't invincible. He was just a skilled human, there was nothing mystical about the movie.
He would lose against the movie Cap.
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Saren

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#22  Edited By Saren
@Enzeru said:
@progenitor said:
  Basically, it comes down to skill vs. physicality, and I think that Achilles is fast enough to hold his own--and defeat movie Cap.
Then it's the same like the Deathstroke vs Taskmaster thread in here, where noone sees Taskmaster winning, even though he is more skilled thanks to his power then Deathstroke. Deathstroke is still ending as the winner for the most of the people, because he has stronger physical stats :-X Taskmaster = Achilles Deatstroke = Captain America  However, the Achilles in the movie wasn't invincible. He was just a skilled human, there was nothing mystical about the movie. He would lose against the movie Cap.
Movie Cap isn't even remotely as good as Deathstroke. 
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progenitorigin

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#23  Edited By progenitorigin
@Enzeru said:
@progenitor said:
  Basically, it comes down to skill vs. physicality, and I think that Achilles is fast enough to hold his own--and defeat movie Cap.
Then it's the same like the Deathstroke vs Taskmaster thread in here, where noone sees Taskmaster winning, even though he is more skilled thanks to his power then Deathstroke. Deathstroke is still ending as the winner for the most of the people, because he has stronger physical stats :-X Taskmaster = Achilles Deatstroke = Captain America  However, the Achilles in the movie wasn't invincible. He was just a skilled human, there was nothing mystical about the movie. He would lose against the movie Cap.

Well, we can't really say he wasn't invincible, he was never wounded until after he was shot in the ankle with an arrow.  As far as mysticism goes, there's still more to the myths than the intervention of the gods, and despite Captain America having better physical stats, how is he supposed to hurt someone he can't grab a hold of? Aside from that, Achilles has an adamantium sword, so one good swipe from Achilles and Cap is gravely wounded, despite an accelerated healing factor.
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Enzeru--defunct

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#24  Edited By Enzeru--defunct
@CitizenBane said:

Movie Cap isn't even remotely as good as Deathstroke. 

I know.
I was just referring them both the characters in the other thread, where everyone expects Taskmaster too lose in a fight against Deathstroke, just because Deathstroke has the better physical stats. In this thread where Cap is the one with the better stats, he would still lose to someone with more skill, therefore he is the Deathstroke in this thread ;-)
 
@progenitor said:
and despite Captain America having better physical stats, how is he supposed to hurt someone he can't grab a hold of? Aside from that, Achilles has an adamantium sword, so one good swipe from Achilles and Cap is gravely wounded, despite an accelerated healing factor.
If you ask me, the adamantium sword is a non factor in that fight.
Achilles would be able to harm the Cap also with a normal sword. (It's actually unimportant if Cap would be able to destroy the sword with the shield), since the fight wouldn't probably even last that long.
While Achilles may have good reflexes, what are they good for if he can't move his body fast enough to dodge Caps speeded punches and kicks.
Achilles never did something in the movies to actually show some superior physical stats to a normal human. And was his fight against Hector really that impressive to put him above an one man army like Cap is? I don't think so.
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progenitorigin

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#25  Edited By progenitorigin
@Enzeru
Problem is, while Cap is punching and kicking, Achilles is hacking away with an adamantium sword, and if I recall, movie Cap has a vibranium shield, can't adamantium cut through vibranium? In the comics, his shield is a mixture of the two, which is why it's considered unbreakable.  I think Achilles showed enough combat prowess to show he can outclass Cap in a fight.  I'm a huge fan of Cap, but I just don't see him being able to handle Achilles' offense when it was shown as being practically impenetrable.
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Enzeru--defunct

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#26  Edited By Enzeru--defunct
@progenitor said:
I'm a huge fan of Cap, but I just don't see him being able to handle Achilles' offense when it was shown as being practically impenetrable.
Let me quote Achilles himself.
 
Young boy: "They say you can't be killed..."
Achilles: "Then I wouldn't be bothering with the shield, would I?" 
 
1-2 hits and Achilles is down and Cap is superior enough to do that.
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King_Namor

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#27  Edited By King_Namor

they did show a little mysticism towards achilles in the movie. For example he threw a spear and hit a guy in the heart about a 1/2  a mile away. Hector threw one back but it wasnt as fast as achilles so he dodged it. 
 
Pretty hard comparing Greek Mysticism With German-American Science.

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progenitorigin

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#28  Edited By progenitorigin
@Enzeru said:
@progenitor said:
I'm a huge fan of Cap, but I just don't see him being able to handle Achilles' offense when it was shown as being practically impenetrable.
Let me quote Achilles himself.  Young boy: "They say you can't be killed..." Achilles: "Then I wouldn't be bothering with the shield, would I?"   1-2 hits and Achilles is down and Cap is superior enough to do that.

Achilles used a shield in the mythology, too.  That quote was added to bring more realism to the movie, obviously.  If Cap can even reach Achilles with the shield, Hector certainly wasn't able to, and Achilles is also considered to be a one-man army, as shown on the beach scene on the first page.
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Enzeru--defunct

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#29  Edited By Enzeru--defunct
@progenitor said:
If Cap can even reach Achilles with the shield, Hector certainly wasn't able to, and Achilles is also considered to be a one-man army, as shown on the beach scene on the first page.
Hector is not Captain America and neither is the movie Achilles.
You can also start a new thread, where you can try to discuss the fight between HYDRA soldiers and the guys with the shields and short-swords from Troy. U c wut I did thar?
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progenitorigin

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#30  Edited By progenitorigin
@Enzeru said:
@progenitor said:
If Cap can even reach Achilles with the shield, Hector certainly wasn't able to, and Achilles is also considered to be a one-man army, as shown on the beach scene on the first page.
Hector is not Captain America and neither is the movie Achilles.
You can also start a new thread, where you can try to discuss the fight between HYDRA soldiers and the guys with the shields and short-swords from Troy. U c wut I did thar?


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progenitorigin

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#31  Edited By progenitorigin

When Captain America gets a 9mm. or a HYDRA disintegrate gun, then we'll talk that, but I still see Achilles taking this due to superior skill & experience.  Captain America was tagged, Achilles never was, until his ankle was hit.
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Loki9876

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#32  Edited By Loki9876

um cap he took out several hydra agents who had superior tech and he learned his h2h and other skills at the missions they fastforward i guess.
i mean didn't you guys saw him taking over that little plain and stuff he could bounce the shield from a tree, wall and then hit achilles in the back he would be NOT be expecting that.

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theicon

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#33  Edited By theicon

cap defeats achilles

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Erik

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#34  Edited By Erik

Achilles.

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#35  Edited By Picard
@The Stegman: Captain. Achilles is more skilled but Cap is incomparably better in terms  of strength, speed and equipment. You pit someone form II War era against someone from bronze age. Who you think would win? :)
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Labyrinth

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#36  Edited By Labyrinth

Movie Captain America would wreck movie Achilles.

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BlainCooper

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Achilles puts Cap on time out

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mtuske

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Cap slaughter stomps effortlessly. 10/10

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slimj87d

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Does anyone have a interview with the Troy directors... Is Achilles really supposed to be a demigod in this movie? Or was he just really good? Or was it just not explained for us to argue about>

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Awesomedude

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Achilles due to better skill.

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nfactor1995

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Technically speaking according to the myths isn't Achilles invulnerable except for his heel? Therefore Cap wouldn't be able to touch him unless he got him there...but that's just from the actual mythology not sure if the movie holds that

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dajhonmccloud

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Achillies Wins, Skill level too high.

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Eisenfauste

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Captain America punches his head in

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USSJ3071

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love both but cap has an edge

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Thedarkpaladin

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It depends on which version of Achilles we're using here.

Movie version loses.

Illiad version wins.

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Leo-343

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Cap wrecks.

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buildhare

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Achilles was very skilled, not invulnerable.

Cap destroys him.

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cpt_nice

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#48  Edited By cpt_nice

Brad Achilles is so overrated.

Cap wins

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Archangel01

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historic achilles wreck him,while movie one can either way

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TheKing47

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historic achilles wreck him,while movie one can either way

Either way? Don't make me laugh, at this stage the difference between them is huge. Cap knocks his head clean off.