Captain America (MCU) vs Gazelle (Kingsman)

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#51 Posted by AngelJax (11993 posts) - - Show Bio

Gazelle

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#52 Posted by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap.

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#53 Posted by TheAlmightyKue (216 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap has the edge in strength, stamina, speed, and reflexes. Any minor cut will mean jack shit to cap as he can heal from it in a few hours. Gazelle still got taken out by a normal human let alone a low-tier superhuman. And yes with the strength Cap shows to hold a Helicopter he is a full blown super human. If he lands a single hit, she is going to be floored with whatever bone got in the way of that blow being broken or at least cracked.

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#54 Posted by Amcu (17480 posts) - - Show Bio

Steve. More skilled and can one shot if he hits her. She's no faster than Black Panther.

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#55 Edited by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: This is spite. The only people who have given Cap a good fight have been superhumans.

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#56 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: This is spite. The only people who have given Cap a good fight have been superhumans.

Probably because he's never faught high tier human fighters with weapons, ever.

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#57 Posted by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Like when he smacked around Crossbones?

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#58 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Like when he smacked around Crossbones?

*High tier*, beating Falcon does not make you high tier, and that's Rumlow's only other h2h feat pre-CW.

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#59 Posted by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Rumlow is peak human and an elite shield agent. He's special forces tier IRL and his strength enhancing gauntlets would allow him to one-shot any other peak human. He's as high tier as a human can get and he couldn't even scratch Rogers despite disarming him and sucker punching him twice.

Gazelle isn't anymore impressive. She just has an unusual acrobatic fighting style and blades that take getting used to.

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#60 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@krispy808: Rumlow with his tasers would get wrecked by the best human fighters in CBM/Ss. Gazelle would also wreck him.

On paper, Rumlow is a pretty decent fighter, he has no feats that would suggest Steve stomping him translates to stomping other armed peak humans or Gazelle, who is an exceptionally fast and acrobatic martial artist with blades as legs, blades that have sliced down humans in half with mere slashes before.

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#61 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap tbh. I love the Kingsmen, but I don't see Gazelle taking Cap. At least with his shield. Shieldless she should be able to do it.

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#62 Posted by universeichigo1 (1828 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 gazelle wins but round 2 cap knocks her out.

Gazelle is better skill wise while captain edges out in strength and speed.

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#63 Posted by Rustlingjimmy (1189 posts) - - Show Bio

cap

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#64 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people put Kingsman (ergo Gazelle) CQC/H2H skill on such a high pedestal? Gazelle dominated Eggsy but his H2H wasn't anything impressive outside of his fight with her and a little with Charlie/Whiskey. I honestly don't see her as that much more skilled than Cap.

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#65 Posted by universeichigo1 (1828 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: because she is more skilled than cap cap uses more of a millitary fighting method and brute strength she uses more acrobatic movements like black widow. She has also shown more impressive skill feat than cap so there is that.

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#66 Posted by DarkPsychicLord_Prime (4207 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap stomps

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#67 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: because she is more skilled than cap cap uses more of a millitary fighting method and brute strength she uses more acrobatic movements like black widow. She has also shown more impressive skill feat than cap so there is that.

Agility and acrobatics don't make you more skilled than someone lol. I guess Deadpool is a grandmaster, Ra's Al Ghul+ skill tier character even while depowered because he does flips? That's not how it works.

If you really think Cap's fighting method is just `brute strength` and a `military fighting method` then no offense, but you shouldn't be analyzing this. Cap has visual influence from fighting styles such as boxing, judo, taekwondo, Brazilian jiu jitsu, krav maga, muay thai, and many more.

Acrobatic moves like Widow don't make you supremely skilled. Proxima Midnight was keeping up with her and Cap just fine, and she wasn't uber acrobatic. Rumlow/Crossbones was giving Cap a decent fight, and he was far from acrobatic.

What skill feats does she have on par with Rogers? She dominated Eggsy but then we have Cap fighting and/or beating the likes of Bucky, Panther, Spider-Man, Ultron, Iron Man, Loki, and more. I don't see Eggsy doing half of what Cap did in those situations. Cap put down four guys in one move, I'm sure you've seen the tie-in. Gazelle took down 2 mooks but nowhere near as fast as Cap put down four.

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#68 Edited by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration said:

Why do people put Kingsman (ergo Gazelle) CQC/H2H skill on such a high pedestal? Gazelle dominated Eggsy but his H2H wasn't anything impressive outside of his fight with her and a little with Charlie/Whiskey. I honestly don't see her as that much more skilled than Cap.

that choreography tho

Not many live action fighters can move like that, it's just insane visually, and not to be taken lightly. On paper, Steve is better, and should be more skilled, simply because he has better showings against established opposition, but it's hard to argue against such fluidity. We know agility is not to be mixed with actual skill, but Gazelle is not just throwing around cool looking kicks and knife flips, she's moving with a sht load of experience and ability there, and always has her next move planned like a real martial artist;

Loading Video...

I mean, look at that. She was going for a killshot, Eggsy dodges and she still uses this dodge to her advantage, performing 2 subsequent flips and forces Eggsy on the defensive abusing the momentum of her hitting the wall instead of Eggsy himself. Every single move matters, key saying in martial arts. And all that while she was "playing with her food". I'd honestly put her on par with the best MCU fighters just because of choreography alone, the whole fight is insane.

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#69 Posted by universeichigo1 (1828 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: yes agility and Acrobats used right does account to skill Deadpool has skill and ra's ah gaul has better skill set, you can't say MCU captain America is more skilled than any of this people you called out that would just be wrong.

Cap fighting (because he never out Right beat any of them) Bucky, Panther, Spider-Man, Ultron, Iron Man, Loki doesn't automatically make him have skill. Every one exept for panther haven't really got skill on par with kingsman talkless of black widow, kingsman a trained for that particular purpose and the guys you mentioned hardly recieved any training on a similar magnitude.

Captain America taking out four imexperienced mooks is nothing compared to gazelle taking out egsy who can be scaled to chalie who took down an entire church of blood listed people aimed to kill each other,and those two mooks are way more skilled and experience than the four mooks cap took out.

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#70 Posted by deactivated-5bae6e10f11f4 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

She is way too fast

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#71 Edited by AllStarSuperman (43901 posts) - - Show Bio

Gazelle still wins. Shes batroc on meth with blades for legs

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#72 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration: yes agility and Acrobats used right does account to skill Deadpool has skill and ra's ah gaul has better skill set, you can't say MCU captain America is more skilled than any of this people you called out that would just be wrong.

Cap fighting (because he never out Right beat any of them) Bucky, Panther, Spider-Man, Ultron, Iron Man, Loki doesn't automatically make him have skill. Every one exept for panther haven't really got skill on par with kingsman talkless of black widow, kingsman a trained for that particular purpose and the guys you mentioned hardly recieved any training on a similar magnitude.

Captain America taking out four imexperienced mooks is nothing compared to gazelle taking out egsy who can be scaled to chalie who took down an entire church of blood listed people aimed to kill each other,and those two mooks are way more skilled and experience than the four mooks cap took out.

Deadpool has skill I agree but if you depower him, give him a sword, give CW Ra's Al Ghul a sword, and tell them to fight, his flips aren't going to do him any favors in that showing of skill. Ra's will steamroll him harder than he steamrolled Oliver in their first fight.

MCU Cap fought:

  • Winter Soldier. They basically stalemated in their first fight, arguable edge to Cap due to getting the last hit. Cap was holding back in their second fight, and arguably still held the edge given how easily he got him into a hold at the end. Bucky steamrolled him in Civil War but Cap could literally not have been holding back more and Bucky literally could not have been trying harder. While Eggsy and Gazelle can take wins over him, it's due to gear, not skill.
  • Panther: They're about even in stats but Panther has what amounts to a basically indestructible suit. Both got one kick on the other, and neither gained the edge. However, given that Panther was more agile (i.e triple kick) and it didn't help him defeat a similarly physicaled opponent, it still helps me disprove you "agility = skill" argument. Eggsy/Gazelle could maybe replicate this showing only because Cap didn't win. Neither of them are beating Panther.
  • Spider-Man: This one doesn't really help my argument much, but there's still some things to note. For starters, Spidey is far more physically imposing than Cap, and Cap got through those physical disadvantages through skill. Neither Eggsy nor Gazelle can do what Cap did to Spidey.
  • Ultron: Far, FAR physically more powerful than Cap, without a doubt and by a longshot. Cap still held him off, basically through sheer skill, for an extremely extended amount of time. Neither Eggsy nor Gazelle can do what Cap did to Ultron.
  • Iron Man: Tbh this fight was more deus ex machina than anything.
  • Loki: Far, FAR physically more powerful than Cap, without a doubt and by a longshot. Cap still held him off, partly due to his own physicals, partly due to skill, for a respectable amount of time. Neither Eggsy nor Gazelle can do what Cap did to Loki.

He didn't win any of these but he didn't have to. The feats are his own. Gazelle would struggle with Bucky, let alone everyone else mentioned who have means to one-shot her like a sitting duck. It doesn't matter that Cap wasn't more skilled than those people, the skill is in holding them off. That said, objectively speaking, Ultron, Stark, Spidey, and likely Loki are far inferior to him in terms of CQC. If you equalize stats between Cap and the aforementioned four, Cap would stomp them in a matter of seconds.

Even then, Panther and Bucky are surely up to par. Bucky has been HYDRA's ace in the hole operative for decades, sent on missions that intelligence committees weren't even sure who they were committed by. Panther has been stated by the directors to be trained to the highest levels or something like that. To further discredit your argument, we actually have no idea HOW Kingsmen are trained at CQC, all of that part happened off-screen.

Lastly, I now know you clearly have no idea what you're talking about given that it was Harry Hart that went through the church, not Charlie. Furthermore, Harry can't be scaled to Eggsy in a way that helps your argument. Eggsy was doing nowhere near as good as Harry was doing against Whiskey, which gives us clear indication that Harry > Eggsy.

Those two mooks have nothing to add credence to their name. You saying that they're more skilled is completely unsubstantiated and outright wrong. Give me any reason to believe that the guys Gazelle took longer to take down were any more skilled than the mercs that Cap took down. You can't, but you can try.

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#73 Posted by SupremeGeneration (12920 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration said:

Why do people put Kingsman (ergo Gazelle) CQC/H2H skill on such a high pedestal? Gazelle dominated Eggsy but his H2H wasn't anything impressive outside of his fight with her and a little with Charlie/Whiskey. I honestly don't see her as that much more skilled than Cap.

that choreography tho

Not many live action fighters can move like that, it's just insane visually, and not to be taken lightly. On paper, Steve is better, and should be more skilled, simply because he has better showings against established opposition, but it's hard to argue against such fluidity. We know agility is not to be mixed with actual skill, but Gazelle is not just throwing around cool looking kicks and knife flips, she's moving with a sht load of experience and ability there, and always has her next move planned like a real martial artist;

Loading Video...

I mean, look at that. She was going for a killshot, Eggsy dodges and she still uses this dodge to her advantage, performing 2 subsequent flips and forces Eggsy on the defensive abusing the momentum of her hitting the wall instead of Eggsy himself. Every single move matters, key saying in martial arts. And all that while she was "playing with her food". I'd honestly put her on par with the best MCU fighters just because of choreography alone, the whole fight is insane.

I mean I guess that's fair, but I've never been a fan of using choreography as an argument, at least not excessively. That said, with characters with few appearances (aka Gazelle) or extremely controversial fights (that Matt vs Black Sky breakdown) I can do it. I guess I can use that as my basis in a certain CaV...

You clearly have higher opinions of the Kingsmen than the guy who made their freaking RT lol.

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#74 Posted by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: @anthp2000:

@krispy808: Rumlow with his tasers would get wrecked by the best human fighters in CBM/Ss. Gazelle would also wreck him.

On paper, Rumlow is a pretty decent fighter, he has no feats that would suggest Steve stomping him translates to stomping other armed peak humans or Gazelle, who is an exceptionally fast and acrobatic martial artist with blades as legs, blades that have sliced down humans in half with mere slashes before.

No, he wouldn't. He would lose, but he wouldn't get wrecked. It doesn't even matter what Crossbones can do, It doesn't take away from my original point that Cap eats peak humans for breakfast. Gazelle is no exception. He can react to her moves and adjust to her fighting style just fine. He basically one-shots once he finds an opening.

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#75 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@supremegeneration:

I mean I guess that's fair, but I've never been a fan of using choreography as an argument, at least not excessively. That said, with characters with few appearances (aka Gazelle) or extremely controversial fights (that Matt vs Black Sky breakdown) I can do it. I guess I can use that as my basis in a certain CaV...

You clearly have higher opinions of the Kingsmen than the guy who made their freaking RT lol.

Yeah I dunno, seems like Gazelle is the epitome of "fast and furious" in live action street level combat. Eggsy keeping up with her is a pretty great feat for him. Also, I wonder what CaV that could be.

@krispy808:

No, he wouldn't. He would lose, but he wouldn't get wrecked. It doesn't even matter what Crossbones can do, It doesn't take away from my original point that Cap eats peak humans for breakfast. Gazelle is no exception. He can react to her moves and adjust to her fighting style just fine. He basically one-shots once he finds an opening.

Except he doesn't. When they can outmaneuver him and have weapons that can slice and dice, I'd say they have a pretty good shot against him. Because he has never faught someone who can properly outpace him and can put him down, which is what Gazelle can arguably do.

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#76 Posted by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@krispy808:

No, he wouldn't. He would lose, but he wouldn't get wrecked. It doesn't even matter what Crossbones can do, It doesn't take away from my original point that Cap eats peak humans for breakfast. Gazelle is no exception. He can react to her moves and adjust to her fighting style just fine. He basically one-shots once he finds an opening.

Except he doesn't. When they can outmaneuver him and have weapons that can slice and dice, I'd say they have a pretty good shot against him. Because he has never faught someone who can properly outpace him and can put him down, which is what Gazelle can arguably do.

Except he does. Batroc got toyed with. He beat 10 brolic niggas in a elevator. Crossbones couldn't even hurt him with his suit and dirty tactics. Feel free to name any regular human who has given him a good fight. Steve's reactions are well above a normal human and gazelle isn't faster than peak human level. Eggsy did fine against her and he isn't even comparable to Steve. A bunch of flashy flips and special effects doesn't give her the win here. Unless you want to completely ignore portrayal and use fight choreography as an argument.

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#77 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@krispy808:

No, he wouldn't. He would lose, but he wouldn't get wrecked. It doesn't even matter what Crossbones can do, It doesn't take away from my original point that Cap eats peak humans for breakfast. Gazelle is no exception. He can react to her moves and adjust to her fighting style just fine. He basically one-shots once he finds an opening.

Except he doesn't. When they can outmaneuver him and have weapons that can slice and dice, I'd say they have a pretty good shot against him. Because he has never faught someone who can properly outpace him and can put him down, which is what Gazelle can arguably do.

Except he does. Batroc got toyed with. He beat 10 brolic niggas in a elevator. Crossbones couldn't even hurt him with his suit and dirty tactics. Feel free to name any regular human who has given him a good fight. Steve's reactions are well above a normal human and gazelle isn't faster than peak human level. Eggsy did fine against her and he isn't even comparable to Steve. A bunch of flashy flips and special effects doesn't give her the win here. Unless you want to completely ignore portrayal and use fight choreography as an argument.

You're being repetetive because you're just wrong. Rumlow hasn't done anything to suggest he's a high level fighter outside of his fight with Cap, and Batroc is utterly featless. I won't name any human fighter that has given him a good fight, because he's never faught any human of the highest pedestrial, let alone someone who was outmaneuvering a legimate bullet timer and has huge blades that can slice down humans with mere slashes. Like it or not, your argument goes both ways. Feel free to show me Cap stomping someone on Gazelle's level, go ahead.

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#78 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5928 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

what do you think of these feats compared to her fights with eggsy?

No Caption Provided

I’d say that’s extreme agility and precision when you factor the wind, the shifting truck, the dodging of the repulsors, the aim of the throws and the perfect connection on the shield kick in order to lodge it in the chest plate. That last part should be impossible since he would have to generate all the force needed to break the armor with his kick

No Caption Provided

This feat i feel gets underrated. I know theyre not swords, but T’Challa should be fast and skilled enough to make up for any reach gap, especially since he has that armor. And since he doesn’t have to leave the ground to use them, I think this is good enough to suggest gazelle would have a very tough time getting past caps defense.

Im not too versed in Kingsman so I wouldn’t say who wins for sure, just thought I’d get your thoughts

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#79 Edited by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@webinyoureye11:

First one is what I'd personally call all around combat skill, using your weapon of choice in a versatile manner etc. it's awesome, even if it's not strict hand to hand. Second one is actually very nice, and it's what leads me to believe that Steve is more or less on par with T'Challa in skill (which is a very impressive feat), and I think it's comparable to her fight with Eggsy. This, along with his fight with Corvus Glaive, are Steve's most impressive 1 on 1s IMO.

I do think Steve is at least similarly technically skilled to Gazelle regardless, if not moreso, but I feel like her sheer speed and superior weapon will get through to victory here, though I don't think R2 will be easy by any means. I mean, just look at how she moves, it's ridiculous.

I'm not surprised that people would side with the Captain, and I think he'll give her a good run for her money either way, but I don't think he can land clean hits/grabs before he gets teared apart here.

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#80 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5928 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: hand to hand I don’t see Steve winning. He’s not that good to go untouched while also landing blows against someone who turns into a break dancing human blender.

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#81 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by Amcu (17480 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap's suit is bulletproof and resisted Outriders scratching at it. Her blades are extremely sharp and have great piercing output considering how easily she could cut through people but I still don't see why she should cut through his suit easily.

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#83 Posted by krispy808 (205 posts) - - Show Bio

@krispy808 said:
@anthp2000 said:

@krispy808:

No, he wouldn't. He would lose, but he wouldn't get wrecked. It doesn't even matter what Crossbones can do, It doesn't take away from my original point that Cap eats peak humans for breakfast. Gazelle is no exception. He can react to her moves and adjust to her fighting style just fine. He basically one-shots once he finds an opening.

Except he doesn't. When they can outmaneuver him and have weapons that can slice and dice, I'd say they have a pretty good shot against him. Because he has never faught someone who can properly outpace him and can put him down, which is what Gazelle can arguably do.

Except he does. Batroc got toyed with. He beat 10 brolic niggas in a elevator. Crossbones couldn't even hurt him with his suit and dirty tactics. Feel free to name any regular human who has given him a good fight. Steve's reactions are well above a normal human and gazelle isn't faster than peak human level. Eggsy did fine against her and he isn't even comparable to Steve. A bunch of flashy flips and special effects doesn't give her the win here. Unless you want to completely ignore portrayal and use fight choreography as an argument.

You're being repetetive because you're just wrong. Rumlow hasn't done anything to suggest he's a high level fighter outside of his fight with Cap, and Batroc is utterly featless. I won't name any human fighter that has given him a good fight, because he's never faught any human of the highest pedestrial, let alone someone who was outmaneuvering a legimate bullet timer and has huge blades that can slice down humans with mere slashes. Like it or not, your argument goes both ways. Feel free to show me Cap stomping someone on Gazelle's level, go ahead.

You're calling it "repetitive" because you can't refute my original point and the only point that matters here. I don't need to show Cap beating people weaker than him because it doesn't matter. I don't need to prove Batroc and Rumlow are comparable to gazelle because Cap's already fought waaaaay tougher opponents. Fighting T'challa on even grounds already far above what gazelle can hope to replicate. Eggsy isn't a bullet timer btw. You need to perceive a bullet travelling through the air to be a bullet timer. Anyway this my last response. This thread is a waste of time.

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#84 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@krispy808:

Steve would never win a single match against a suited Black Panther. Fighting him for as long as he did is not something I can't see Gazelle replicating. And your initial argument is proven completely incorrect, as Steve has never "eaten for breakfast" armed high tier human fighters.

@amcu: Kelvar is bulletproof, but not bladeproof. Outriders scratching it is a weird and unreliable feat at best, 2-inch claws from mindless veasts do not compare to mechanical legs that can slice through flesh and cut it in half without effort. Steve's suit doesn't have piercing resistence against anything that isn't bullets.

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#85 Posted by Amcu (17480 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Outriders claws should be pretty potent. I mean they breached the Wakandan barrier.

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#86 Posted by ANTHP2000 (31014 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: not with their claws, and that really doesn't change the fact that Kelvar is not bladeproof.

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#87 Posted by Amcu (17480 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

I thought they clawed their way through it.

And they did say that bit about Kevlar which in the real world doesn't hold out well to blades but they also said when talking about it.

he wanted his suit to be an expression of the new soldier he was trying to be. So that suit is very much drawn upon the most current thinking and technology in terms of military war apparel.

They describe it as being like the most modern military apparel. This being SHIELD tech. And even his old suit from WW2 was stated to be able to stop a average German bayonet by Howard Stark. This suit should logically be much better.

To add to that its certainly much more durable than real Kevlar as it was taking Ultron's blasts without notable damage. Those blasts disintegrated metal and produced shockwaves. I wouldn't really use it supposedly being Kevlar against it if it has piercing feats better. The Russo's probably don't know that Kevlar is weak to bladed weapons. And I think Outriders clawing at it are better.