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#1 Posted by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio
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Strictly Hand to Hand

Takes place here

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#2 Posted by Amcu (13982 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by GearSecond659 (4992 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by GearSecond659 (4992 posts) - - Show Bio

Just by looking at the title of the thread, I knew who created it LMAO

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#5 Posted by g2_ (10958 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap.

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#6 Posted by KalKent (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

Strictly hand to hand? Spider-man handily.

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#7 Posted by SocaJunkie (6942 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Edited by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

Rogers is literally superior in EVERY WAY aside from lifting strength. Striking power is way more important in a fight and Rogers outclasses him in that category easily. If Dock Ock could tank a beating from Raimi's Spider-man than Rogers can do it comfortably. That said, I know what agenda is being pushed here. It's rather unnecessary.

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#9 Posted by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by IchiNiSanji (480 posts) - - Show Bio

ill make a 616 captain america vs thanos mcu thread

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#11 Edited by SocaJunkie (6942 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger said:

Rogers is literally superior in EVERY WAY aside from lifting strength. Striking power is way more important in a fight and Rogers outclasses him in that category easily. If Dock Ock could tank a beating from Raimi's Spider-man than Rogers can do it comfortably. That said, I know what agenda is being pushed here. It's rather unnecessary.

I don't disagree but this seems like an inconsistency given that Tobey actually has a good striking feat from the first film no less which is punching clean through the metal roof of a car and the argument that Ock's arm's linked to his brain stops him from getting knocked out doesn't work because his face should have been mush but this could be put down to it being a kids film so...no gore.

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#12 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5049 posts) - - Show Bio

Just accept it. Comics always win

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#13 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Amcu (13982 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial:

Yeah... I've created a battle.

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Just playing with you.

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#15 Posted by IchiNiSanji (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@ichinisanji: And Cap would lose badly.

you sure there isn't a bunch of feats with captain america doing a lot of damange to characters with his shield that by scaling means with his insane skill and speed just dodges and blocks everything while wearing him down with the shield?

you sure?

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#16 Edited by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@ichinisanji: I don't know if you are being sarcastic or you are just pushing this "616 = wank" agenda, which is at best a verbal fallacy and will not bring anyone anywhere. That said, yes, there are instances where Cap preforms some absurd level shit like 3-shotting the Hulk with Spider-man's help in a flashback. But lets pretend like that is consistent, unless you want to come at be and tell me that feats that support Rogers easily beating this version of Spider-man also happen to be as inconsistent as stuff I brought up with the Hulk? Because I truly have no idea what are you trying to accomplish by posting totally unnecessary post like stating you will make a clear mismatch, just for the sake of, I don't know, making a bait thread? Live Action threads are bad enough as it is.

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#17 Edited by IchiNiSanji (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger said:

@ichinisanji: I don't know if you are being sarcastic or you are just pushing this "616 = wank" agenda, which is at best a verbal fallacy and will not bring anyone anywhere. That said, yes, there are instances where Cap preforms some absurd level shit like 3-shotting the Hulk with Spider-man's help in a flashback. But lets pretend like that is consistent, unless you want to come at be and tell me that feats that support Rogers easily beating this version of Spider-man also happen to be as inconsistent as stuff I brought up with the Hulk? Because I truly have no idea what are you trying to accomplish by posting totally unnecessary post like stating you will make a clear mismatch, just for the sake of, Indon't know, making a bait? Live Action threads are bad enough as it is.

i don't really care who wins, i think it would be amusing to see street levelers beating LA high tiers and top tiers and if someone can actually debate that case convincingly as well.

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#18 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@ichinisanji: It will only cause more hostility. Sure, someone can make an argument and even support it with evidence. Hell, I can provide evidence that Cap has feats to deal with MCU Thanos. But it's not about having evidence to use but how you use it. It won't be convincing, and even if it turns out to be convincing, it will start a flame war this site does not need right now. It needs improvement.

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#19 Posted by Kevd4wg (9499 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by IchiNiSanji (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@ichinisanji: It will only cause more hostility. Sure, someone can make an argument and even support it with evidence. Hell, I can provide evidence that Cap has feats to deal with MCU Thanos. But it's not about having evidence to use but how you use it. It won't be convincing, and even if it turns out to be convincing, it will start a flame war this site does not need right now. It needs improvement.

ban live action vs comic book fights then lol

dceu supes vs wolverine thread is devolved into calling people idiots bc of a few users

i think it comes with the territory in part. charged environment of a battledome

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#21 Posted by Jaylen (11 posts) - - Show Bio

I think 616 Cap has the will power and the feats to be able to fight through what Spidey will be throwing at him.

Cap wins.

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#22 Posted by TheKinfing (11116 posts) - - Show Bio

Rogers is literally superior in EVERY WAY aside from lifting strength. Striking power is way more important in a fight and Rogers outclasses him in that category easily. If Dock Ock could tank a beating from Raimi's Spider-man than Rogers can do it comfortably. That said, I know what agenda is being pushed here. It's rather unnecessary.

Why? Ock doesn't have any anti-feats that lower his average, why can't that simply be a good durability feat?

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#23 Posted by JGehrand9 (496 posts) - - Show Bio

H2h? Cap stomps

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#24 Posted by Pipxeroth (8657 posts) - - Show Bio

Are you just going to keep making these until you find a matchup where the live action character wins?

Cap absolutely trashes Peter.

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#25 Posted by Rag_man (1370 posts) - - Show Bio

Raimi's spiderman is a beast, although lacking the hundreds of issues experience compared to his comic book counterpart his feats are comparable to the comics.

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#26 Posted by AllStarSuperman (42150 posts) - - Show Bio

Peter obviously wins if he’s serious

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#27 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17211 posts) - - Show Bio

Raimi Spidey isn't in any way comparable to his comic book counterpart he literally has zero feats on his level

With that said Steve wins

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#28 Posted by Tenguswordsman (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Rogers, and easily at that.

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#29 Posted by Richubs (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Captain capable of stopping a train?

Or taking a vaporizing grenade to the face?

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#30 Posted by ThePunisherFan (1563 posts) - - Show Bio

Tobey’ spiderman solos all of Earth 616 and MCU... mismatch.

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#31 Edited by Kirkseven (1331 posts) - - Show Bio

Tobeys Spiderman is close to his 616 counter part, but with less experience and more... "pizza time"

He wins

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#32 Posted by KingCrimson (4545 posts) - - Show Bio

Spidey whoops him

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#33 Edited by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@socajunkie Yeah I guess you can say that. Plus, Peter who was two years younger was able to beat up Norman Osborn with his armor, who has better stats than Octopus so he was probably holding back like his comic counterpart does most of the time.

@ichinisanji I don't think it's fair to ask to outright ban that type of thread. As cool as it could be, there are/were far worse type of threads who did not get banned. People just need to stop pushing this agenda of theirs.

@thekinfing Sure, I take that back. Regardless, he lacks striking power to put Rogers down.

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@richubs

Is Captain capable of stopping a train?

Not really. Don't know how that's relevant because not only did Peter rely on his webbing a lot on that instance but he exerted himself so much, he literally ended up being knocked out, and when he got back up, he was one-shotted by the same character who he can tank a beating from when he's at his best. It's not like you can exert yourself the same way in an actual fight.

Besides, you do know the difference between striking power and lifting strength? Superman for example can lift a planet, but he can't destroy it. Or real life example. Heavy weight lifters can lift more than a boxer, but boxer strikes way harder than them. Peter lacks feats to prove he can punch with the force of a speeding train. Rogers' striking feats are way better than Raimi's Spider-man.

Or taking a vaporizing grenade to the face?

That bomb turned his face into a bloody mess, send him fly several feet away with him screaming, and then falling to his knees while grunting in pain and struggling to even use his webbing. He got up just because he was angry at Norman provoking him about killing Mary Jane. Even if the beating from Norman needs to be taken into consideration here, that bomb damaged him pretty badly.

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Rogers on the other hand was able to tank explosion of his suit (which literally sits on his chest, that's as point blank as it gets) caused by Gambit's powers, and he barely had a bloody nose, and was 100% fine and ended the fight by one-shotting him (AVX: VS #2).

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This explosion was way bigger than that pumpkin bomb and Rogers shrugged it off pretty comfortably. And this is not even one of Rogers' best durability feats. Not even close actually (not counting outliers). He was only sent backwards because Gambit kicked him.

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#34 Edited by King-Ragnar (1823 posts) - - Show Bio

Judging by the fact that you made strictly made it hand to hand, it's safe to assume that you know nothing about 616 characters (or even Marvel comics characters for that matter).

That being said, Rogers wins with laughable ease.

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#35 Posted by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar: And still many users have sided with Spider-Man and drop the attitude, I remember your comments in the Smallville Superman vs Rebirth Superman thread now and you were the same in that and ended up getting rekt in the debate. Even the users saying Steve wins don't say its laughable ease.

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#36 Edited by King-Ragnar (1823 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial:

And still many users have sided with Spider-Man and drop the attitude

Attitude? It's not really an attitude, anyone with basic or in depth knowledge about 616 Captain America (Or 616 characters in general) can tell you he hilariously outclasses every live action Marvel street leveler when it comes to skill. In your case, you have neither basic nor in depth, so it really wouldn't surprise me if you believe MCU Doctor Strange can beat his 616 counterpart.

I remember your comments in the Smallville Superman vs Rebirth Superman thread now and you were the same in that and ended up getting rekt in the debate.

If you believe not willing to debate is the same as conceding or losing a debate, then you must have some comprehension issues.

Even the users saying Steve wins don't say its laughable ease.

Let's see some of them of shall we?

H2h? Cap stomps

Cap absolutely trashes Peter.

Rogers, and easily at that.

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#37 Posted by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar: Just the way you worded it. No I don't think that actually. It looked like to me that he was outclassing you in the debate and you just stopped at a point you couldn't counter. It should be easy to debate a battle which you think is a "mismatch". Yeah, theres more and a bunch of users who think Spider-Man wins.

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#38 Edited by King-Ragnar (1823 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial:

It looked like to me that he was outclassing you in the debate and you just stopped at a point you couldn't counter. It should be easy to debate a battle which you think is a "mismatch".

Tell you what, since you think I'm such a bad debater and lose all of my debates and you're confident that Live Action can beat comic books, I'll CaV you using 616 Iron Fist, or hell i could even use Daredevil vs 10 Live Action street levelers of your choosing. Can be CW, DCEU, AOS, MCU, MCU Netflix doesn't matter to me. Come on now Tony, it can't be that hard since I'm such an awful debater.

Yeah, theres more and a bunch of users who think Spider-Man wins.

Good for them.

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#39 Edited by Richubs (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: LOL I wasn't asking that as an argument I don't read comics so I didn't know.

It's pretty impressive what Captain did with that bomb but he did get a nosebleed.

The bomb Tobey lived through was the same one that literally vaporized normal humans (I know it doesn't make sense but it happened)

But still though. In the extended version of Spiderman 2 he got hit by a train coming from the OPPOSITE direction while already on a train.

That's getting hit by a train going at 2 times the speed.

He was also hit on the face by a train and it didn't do absolutely anything. He instead used the momentum of that hit to score a hit himself.

He also took multiple powerful hits from giant Sandman and even though it hurt him he got up and still fought pretty well after it.

And he also has some good moves and agility feats.

Can captain take someone down of durability that high and agility that good.

(Again I'm not sure Captain can do this I'm just stating some stuff for Tobey's spidey)

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#40 Posted by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar: I never said you were a bad debater, just that you lost the debate with Cosby, don't deep it. Also I don't CaV users who do it out of aggravation.

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#41 Posted by buildhare (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

Rogers on the other hand was able to tank explosion of his suit (which literally sits on his chest, that's as point blank as it gets) caused by Gambit's powers, and he barely had a bloody nose, and was 100% fine and ended the fight by one-shotting him (AVX: VS #2). This explosion was way bigger than that pumpkin bomb and Rogers shrugged it off pretty comfortably. And this is not even one of Rogers' best durability feats. Not even close actually (not counting outliers). He was only sent backwards because Gambit kicked him.

I'm not saying Peter wins but given that same pumpkin bomb previously instantly vaporized humans I don't think Gambit's blast being bigger means a whole lot.

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#42 Posted by King-Ragnar (1823 posts) - - Show Bio

@tonymartial:

I never said you were a bad debater, just that you the debate with Cosby, don't deep it

You said i got rekt in that debate. In other words, you were implying that I'm a bad debater

Also I don't CaV users who do it out of aggravation.

An hour ago you were going on about how i ran away from an easy debate and how i lost it. So using your sense of comprehension (Since you think not wanting to debate and losing one is the same thing), you're running away from this one.

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#43 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@richubs:

LOL I wasn't asking that as an argument I don't read comics so I didn't know.

Never said you did LOL. Just said how not being able to stop a train doesn't affect the outcome of this fight.

It's pretty impressive what Captain did with that bomb but he did get a nosebleed.

You mean Gambit making his costume explode? Yes, he did get a nosebleed but this was his reaction:

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He literally said "cute trick", implying he wasn't that impressed. Nose is overall a more vulnerable part of the body anyway. The part of the costume that exploded was the chest piece, and his chest wasn't damaged at all. It's extremely impressive showing. And he stopped bleeding the next panel.

The bomb Tobey lived through was the same one that literally vaporized normal humans (I know it doesn't make sense but it happened)

It means the explosion unleashes pretty high temperatures. When it comes to literally force of the explosion, it's not really comparable to other stuff Cap tanked and is at absolute best equal to the one Cap shrugged off. And he has a lot of other feats on that level.

But still though. In the extended version of Spiderman 2 he got hit by a train coming from the OPPOSITE direction while already on a train.

That's getting hit by a train going at 2 times the speed.

He was also hit on the face by a train and it didn't do absolutely anything. He instead used the momentum of that hit to score a hit himself.

He also took multiple powerful hits from giant Sandman and even though it hurt him he got up and still fought pretty well after it.

And he also has some good moves and agility feats.

Can captain take someone down of durability that high and agility that good.

Impressive showings (he was about to get killed by Sandman tho, although it's still noteworthy). To answer your question, yes, I do think Cap is more than capable of beating him up, as he already did to characters way more durable than this Spider-man. One of the examples is Nuke, who Cap pretty much ragdolled with 5 punches without his shield and 2 with his shield (Captain America Vol. 7 #14):

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The highlight is scan 2,where we see Nuke's face being messed up extremely badly and Rogers' fist being so bloody, it looks like he actually put it in a cop of blood. This was mostly preformed by Rogers' own strength since he punched him 5 times without the shield and twice with the shield. The reason why this is so impressive is because Nuke is a super soldier capable of, not tanking, but literally no selling powerful blame throwers, several volts of electricity, falls from great height, high caliber bullets and even and rockets. Again, not tanking. No selling. And Rogers could kill him with his strength alone.

While he fought him for hours and couldn't do anything to him in the same issue, Cap himself said his rage made him sloppy, and was trying to explain how Nuke's orders and actions are not right, explaining what American Dream means. But when he was actually ready to cut loose, he almost killed him if it weren't for Falcon stopping him. Rogers has a lot of other impressive striking power feats, even better ones when he uses his shield, like when he destroyed a tank with a shield throw in Captain America: Living Legend #1:

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Rogers doesn't need to rely on brute force to win this fight either. He can easily use pressure points against Raimi's Spider-man, something he uses quite often and he even used it against 616 Spider-man in Amazing Spider-man Vol. 1 #534, who not only had even higher durability due to Iron Spider suit, but he had the Other amp during this period, which made his physical stats even greater compared to his already high end street level/low mid tier stats.

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This nerve strike numbed all the parts of Peter's body from waist down (he still continued the fight and nobody won, although I'm confident Peter would win if they continued). To provide some context, Rogers tagged Peter because he distracted him with his shield, but given the fact that 616 Spider-man is physically leagues above Raimi's version in all categories, plus being way more intelligent, more skilled and experienced, there's no reason to believe he can't do the same in this fight. While Rogers mostly had the advantage due to the fact that he knew Peter's fighting style, that's not really relevant here because aside from his webbing and stats, what makes Peter so effective is his intelligence. Rogers made that pretty useless but he still had to fight someone way more versatile than him with all physical advantages, due to skill alone. Add to the fact that Rogers can adapt to most complex fighting styles in seconds and Raimi's Spider-man isn't as nearly as proficient as his 616 counterpart.

(Again I'm not sure Captain can do this I'm just stating some stuff for Tobey's spidey)

Sure, no problem.

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#44 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@buildhare: That has more to do with high temperatures of explosions rather than shockwave and destructive force, no?

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#45 Edited by TonyMartial (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@king-ragnar: Yeah, in your debate with Cosby. Maybe Cosby is just that good, by no means was I implying you were a bad debater. What are you on about now? We're not even in a battle debate, I haven't gave a strong opinion like "this is a huge mismatch" to your Iron Fist vs Street level battle example, you're just making a massive assumption. No dude, I read your debate with Cosby and he clearly was much better. Not running away from anything, I just chose not CaV you because you're aggravated, which is a fair reason.

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#46 Posted by Kevd4wg (9499 posts) - - Show Bio

If it wasn't strickly H2H I think I would actually back Tobey in a very close fight(Though the shield makes we want to go the other way), but in strictly H2H, I really don't see how he beats Steve.

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#47 Edited by buildhare (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

Sure, but if we're using that logic there are far more relevant feats with regards to blunt force durability for both characters than those two showings.

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#48 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@buildhare: True, they both have more feats relevant to blunt force trauma. However, if you wanted to point out how destructive pumpkin bombs can be, you should bring up that feat where one bomb destroyed a portion of a floor large enough to almost tear balcony out of the building. That is more relevant to blunt force.

When it comes to Rogers' feat, he tanked explosion of his suit charged by Gambit's contact. Those explosions do not generate heat, at least not in same sense as bombs. They convert potential energies of an object into kineticenergy and overcharge it, causing the object to explode. Playing cards can create explosions superior to those of grenades, and Cap's chest piece is quite bigger than playing cards.

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I'm pretty sure this is more relevant to blunt force trauma, and I consider it to be superior to Peter's feat, especially because of their reactions to them. Regardless, my argument wasn't based off of this instance alone. This is just the one I brought up. There are more.

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#49 Edited by buildhare (8363 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

True, they both have more feats relevant to blunt force trauma. However, if you wanted to point out how destructive pumpkin bombs can be, you should bring up that feat where one bomb destroyed a portion of a floor large enough to almost tear balcony out of the building. That is more relevant to blunt force.

He should have, but I don't know why that feat was used anyway. Peter has better.

When it comes to Rogers' feat, he tanked explosion of his suit charged by Gambit's contact. Those explosions do not generate heat, at least not in same sense as bombs. They convert potential energies of an object into kineticenergy and overcharge it, causing the object to explode. Playing cards can create explosions superior to those of grenades, and Cap's chest piece is quite bigger than playing cards. I'm pretty sure this is more relevant to blunt force trauma, and I consider it to be superior to Peter's feat, especially because of their reactions to them. Regardless, my argument wasn't based off of this instance alone. This is just the one I brought up. There are more.

I agree it's an impressive showing but I don't understand why the person you are debating/you would be using feats that are;

  1. Pretty meh for both characters
  2. Energy related
  3. Either unimpressive compared to their other feats (Peter) or difficult to measure (Steve)

With the conditions in the OP it'd make more sense to be arguing over something like Peter taking hits from Sandman or Steve fighting Atlas rather than pumpkin bombs and Gambit.

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#50 Posted by KrleAvenger (25857 posts) - - Show Bio

@buildhare: It doesn't seem like we actually disagree on anything here, so I'll leave it at that.

That feat was brought up by the other user, with no assertive claims. Just asking questions. I decided to reply back.