Cap and Cap vs Bat and Bat

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Captain_Justice95

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#1  Edited By Captain_Justice95


and

 


 

Flags of our Fathers # 1
Flags of our Fathers # 1


and
   

Captain America Corps #1
Captain America Corps #1


vs

 


 


 


 



 

Generation Lost #22
Generation Lost #22




and

 


 

Batman #711
Batman #711


 

Equitment

Cap(steve)-Shield

Cap(Bucky)-Shield, dessert eagle with 2 clips, and a combat knife

 

Bat(Bruce)-standard equitment

Bat(Dick)-standard equitment

 

bloodlust but morals

no prep

 

who wins

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Captain_Justice95

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#2  Edited By Captain_Justice95

the two Caps win
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Full_Spectrum

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#3  Edited By Full_Spectrum

the Caps should take this.

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Pharoh_Atem

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#4  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

the bats will run the caps over with there batmobiles

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deactivated-5c6600594117e

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Been done several times.
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Captain_Justice95

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#6  Edited By Captain_Justice95
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
"the bats will run the caps over with there batmobiles "

haha they cant have them, thats to easy
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Pharoh_Atem

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#7  Edited By Pharoh_Atem
@Captain_Justice95: well they still win
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Captain_Justice95

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#8  Edited By Captain_Justice95
@dccomicsrule2011:
why do you think the bat team wins
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jayskee

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#9  Edited By jayskee

steve beats bruce because he is a better fighter and tacitcally smarter same reason why bucky beats dick
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The_Elemetal

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#10  Edited By The_Elemetal

actually i believe Bruce is the better fighter. he received training from all over the world, he also has all of his gadgets so i wouldnt think  that the caps would take this so easily

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Captain_Justice95

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Bruce is the better fighter but i think caps shield and strength bets bruce. bucky's gun and shield can beat dick

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The_Elemetal

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#12  Edited By The_Elemetal

I see your point, but all im saying is if Bruce uses his smoke bombs to out maneuver steve he can disarm him and beat him in a one on one fight. i agree the bucky can beat dick but if he can hold him off long enough for bruce to take down steve (even just for a moment) they can overpower bucky.

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Gremlin From Kremlin

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The Bats.

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nefarious

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#14  Edited By nefarious

The Bats win this battle.

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Pharoh_Atem

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#15  Edited By Pharoh_Atem
@Captain_Justice95: because they are smarter and they both have a ton of gadgets this is a good fight but the bats win
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sharingan_eyes

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#16  Edited By sharingan_eyes

the bats win, while Bruce vs Steve is HIGHLY debatable, in the end i'm giving it to Bruce, he has WAY more fighting skills and a higher array of arsenal


as for Dick vs Bucky Cap, this is a no brainer, dick is better in every way, he's faster, more agile, knows more fighting skills and has more unpredictable weapons
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slimj87d

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#17  Edited By slimj87d
@dccomicsrule2011 said:
" @Captain_Justice95: well they still win "
Why? Because DC Comics rule? 

Caps take it. 
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Pharoh_Atem

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#18  Edited By Pharoh_Atem
@SlimJ87D: because the bats are smarter they have a ton of gadgets they throw a smoke bomb then they both cut the caps head of with there lasers i am dccomicsrule2011 because dc rule to me but i still love marvel too
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slimj87d

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#19  Edited By slimj87d
@dccomicsrule2011 said:

" @SlimJ87D: because the bats are smarter they have a ton of gadgets they throw a smoke bomb then they both cut the caps head of with there lasers "

I've already read through the forums. 
Census have good arguments on Bruce vs Steve, it's almost 50/50 with slight favor to Steve. 

As for Dick vs Bucky, census came to a conclusion that Bucky would defeat him. You can go read that battle thread, because it was created before you joined the forum. 


Even Dick supporters were eventually convinced and turned to Bucky for the win.
 
These numbers average out to the caps taking it. 
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Captain_Justice95

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@dccomicsrule2011 said:

"@SlimJ87D: because the bats are smarter they have a ton of gadgets they throw a smoke bomb then they both cut the caps head of with there lasers i am dccomicsrule2011 because dc rule to me but i still love marvel too "


Batmans smart is only good when there is prep time, and batmans smarts is the least thing that is going to help him in this fight. and i will agree that bats is the better h2h fighter but you have to remeber that cap is one the best fighters in marvel and also is a supersloldier. its a long fight but cap is just too much for the bat. and bucky beats dick 

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Sgtcrispy

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#21  Edited By Sgtcrispy

Do Caps have a way to get around Batman's gadgets?

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slimj87d

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#22  Edited By slimj87d
@Captain_Justice95: 
Batman might be better slightly at H2H knowledge, but he is not as strong, fast or agile than Steve. Therefore Steve is superior in physical H2H combat. 

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Captain_Justice95

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@Sgtcrispy said:
"Do Caps have a way to get around Batman's gadgets? "

what do you mean by that
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The_Elemetal

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#24  Edited By The_Elemetal
@SlimJ87D: no he is not. Batman was not trained in KNOWLEDGE he was trained to use all of those skills in combat. as for the theory about the strength  both bruce and dick have taken on people bigger and stronger than cap over and over. such as Bane. and yes their knowledge is gonna be what helps them win. its all about strategy. and if they are both using their gadgets then the caps are gonna get outmaneuvered  and outsmarted 

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Captain_Justice95

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@The_Elemetal:
cap eats bane for breakfast after he's done saving the world from giant nazi robots.  and like i said strategy is the last thing batman is going to think of. it's an all out one on one fight not a battlefield
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The_Elemetal

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#26  Edited By The_Elemetal

can i refer to my post earlier about bruce disarming steve. if he does that (which is very plausible) he can win at h2h. an with all of Dick's Gadgets there is no doubt in my mind that he can do the same to Bucky, and do u not realize that both Bruce and Dick are extremely intelligent, and will start to memorize the caps strategy. Once they do this, they can anticipate the next move the caps will make, and counter.  Im not saying it will be a stomp im just saying the bats will pull it off 6/10

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slimj87d

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#27  Edited By slimj87d
@The_Elemetal said:
" can i refer to my post earlier about bruce disarming steve. if he does that (which is very plausible) he can win at h2h. an with all of Dick's Gadgets there is no doubt in my mind that he can do the same to Bucky, and do u not realize that both Bruce and Dick are extremely intelligent, and will start to memorize the caps strategy. Once they do this, they can anticipate the next move the caps will make, and counter.  Im not saying it will be a stomp im just saying the bats will pull it off 6/10 "
You don't understand what I'm talking about.

Batman knows more martial arts than Steve, no doubt about that. Therefore he has more martial arts knowledge. But Steve has more speed, strength and agility, so in a actual H2H fight, it doesn't matter what Batman knows, Steve as a good fighter and higher stats has an advantage. 

Here's a summary of Batman vs Captain America

Steve vs Bruce: It goes about 55/45, Steve in favor thanks to the formula.

All my main arguments are in that thread above. I don't feel like reiterating then. With those statistics, the Caps take it. 
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Captain_Justice95

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im pretty sure that batman can not disarm steve that is imposible for batman to do. and in a fight people dont use or think about strategy or how smart they are . and i was wondering, how can batman know/memorize caps strategy if they are from 2 different comic universes. batman is just out of his leauge. 
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The_Elemetal

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#29  Edited By The_Elemetal
@SlimJ87D: Oksy i see exactly where you are coming from, and am glad i finally found someone on this site who isnt a fanboy to debate with. all im saying is this fight isnt based on statistics. I realize that steve is stronger, more agile, and faster, as is bucky to dick. I just believe with help of there gadgets such as smoke grenades and batarangs, they could use hit and run tactics and eventually win 6/10
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slimj87d

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#30  Edited By slimj87d
@The_Elemetal said:
" @SlimJ87D: Oksy i see exactly where you are coming from, and am glad i finally found someone on this site who isnt a fanboy to debate with. all im saying is this fight isnt based on statistics. I realize that steve is stronger, more agile, and faster, as is bucky to dick. I just believe with help of there gadgets such as smoke grenades and batarangs, they could use hit and run tactics and eventually win 6/10 "
Well Bucky also uses smokes and sleeping gas in his arsenal, not to mention bombs and grenades. But OP didn't allow them in here. But it is in his standard gear so fighting in smoke and gases is no problem for him. 

I give Bucky against Dick 8/10 because of the Mechanical arm doubling as a surprise. Without the arm it would be close, maybe 50/50 to 60/40. The arm is dangerous, Bucky can use it as a normal arm, and that is what he would do. And mid fight he would suddenly use it to its full speed and strength when he sees an opening. That arm is very deadly. It also emits EMP and tazes people.

I just got to give it to the Caps if it's heads up. If it was different surroundings I'd give it to the Bats. 
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The_Elemetal

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#31  Edited By The_Elemetal
@SlimJ87D:  True i see where you are coming from especially with Bucky's arm and since the OP doesnt state anything about prior knowledge of each other. it could go either way, because I can see Dick getting caught off guard by Bucky, but with his prior experience as Nightwing he might be able to react just in time, I guess we would just have to see if they ever fought who would be the victor. But what is your angle on Steve vs Bruce
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.Spider-man.

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#32  Edited By .Spider-man.
@Jake Fury said:
" Been done several times. "
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slimj87d

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#33  Edited By slimj87d
@The_Elemetal said:
" @SlimJ87D:  True i see where you are coming from especially with Bucky's arm and since the OP doesnt state anything about prior knowledge of each other. it could go either way, because I can see Dick getting caught off guard by Bucky, but with his prior experience as Nightwing he might be able to react just in time, I guess we would just have to see if they ever fought who would be the victor. But what is your angle on Steve vs Bruce "
This was my analysis awhile back. Deathstroke beat Batman in H2H. Batman even had the element of surprise. Deathstroke beat him very badly, it didn't even look like Batman had a chance. I don't know if Batman could pull off it win against Deathstroke, it would be maybe 2/10 for Batman. Don't forget that Deathstroke schooled Dick as Nightwing so bad that NIghtwing had to pay him off to not assassinate the person he was protecting. 

Deathstroke is 10X the average man. The average man can bench about 150 lbs, and that is being generous, I think it was actually 145. Therefore Deathstroke can lift around 1500 to 1800 lbs.

Steve has been shown repping 1100 lbs. That is repping, which means he can possibly lift a bit more than that. Steve is still weaker than Deathstroke though, Steve could go against Deathstroke and wing 4/10.

Steve against Bruce would be a 7/10 H2H, 6/10 Shield and gadgets Steve in favor. 

That's kinda my take on it. 
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The_Elemetal

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#34  Edited By The_Elemetal
@SlimJ87D:  Wow i'm surprised. that was a very good analysis. but Steve has more of an aggressive fighting style, where as deathstroke is more calm and collective, as is Bruce. I fell that Bruce has a shot 6/10 simply because he can just dodge and counter until the fight is over, but if steve could land a good shot on Bruce it might KO Bruce, but i have seen Bruce take a hell of a lot of punishment, and stay conscious. so he may be able to take a few blows from Cap. and if he can just stay smart he might have this . and if he is able to disarm Steve then it would be a pretty fair match h2h 
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slimj87d

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#35  Edited By slimj87d
@The_Elemetal said:
" @SlimJ87D:  Wow i'm surprised. that was a very good analysis. but Steve has more of an aggressive fighting style, where as deathstroke is more calm and collective, as is Bruce. I fell that Bruce has a shot 6/10 simply because he can just dodge and counter until the fight is over, but if steve could land a good shot on Bruce it might KO Bruce, but i have seen Bruce take a hell of a lot of punishment, and stay conscious. so he may be able to take a few blows from Cap. and if he can just stay smart he might have this . and if he is able to disarm Steve then it would be a pretty fair match h2h  "
Yeah, if he can take hits from Bane, then he can take hits from Steve for sure. But Steve is more sane and skilled than Bane. The shield is a big problem. Stamina is another issue. A fight between them might go on for maybe 15 minutes without rest. That is very long for a fight. By then Bruce might tire while the Super Soldier serum efficiently works his muscles to not build as much fatigue toxins. 

Like I said, Bruce vs Steve goes pretty much 50/50 on the forums. But Bucky vs Dick is the deciding factor, when Bucky takes down Dick it'd be Bucky and Steve vs Batman. Bucky is pretty good, I think he would take a few good rounds against Batman actually. I've written a list of Bucky's feats and creditable fights, most of the people he has held his own or defeated have given Steve a lot of trouble.  
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The_Elemetal

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#36  Edited By The_Elemetal
@SlimJ87D:  Yeah thats true, but i just think the experience of Dick and all of his training would play a big role even though id still favor bucky 6/10 for that battle. But if on the off chance ?Dick takes Bucky he can help out Bruce and the bats can pull out a slim victory

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PowerHerc

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#37  Edited By PowerHerc

The two Caps take down the two Bats.
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Sgtcrispy

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#38  Edited By Sgtcrispy
@Captain_Justice95 said:

" @Sgtcrispy said:

"Do Caps have a way to get around Batman's gadgets? "

what do you mean by that "
Do they have any defense against flashbangs, smoke, tear gas, high voltage shocks, explosives ect? I'm not asking about the rules, I'm asking people arguing for Cap if he has any defenses against those. Does the serum make him immune to some of those?
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entropy_aegis

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#39  Edited By entropy_aegis

Bat's win.

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entropy_aegis

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#40  Edited By entropy_aegis
@SlimJ87D said:
" @The_Elemetal said:
" @SlimJ87D:  True i see where you are coming from especially with Bucky's arm and since the OP doesnt state anything about prior knowledge of each other. it could go either way, because I can see Dick getting caught off guard by Bucky, but with his prior experience as Nightwing he might be able to react just in time, I guess we would just have to see if they ever fought who would be the victor. But what is your angle on Steve vs Bruce "
This was my analysis awhile back. Deathstroke beat Batman in H2H. Batman even had the element of surprise. Deathstroke beat him very badly, it didn't even look like Batman had a chance. I don't know if Batman could pull off it win against Deathstroke, it would be maybe 2/10 for Batman. Don't forget that Deathstroke schooled Dick as Nightwing so bad that NIghtwing had to pay him off to not assassinate the person he was protecting. 

Deathstroke is 10X the average man. The average man can bench about 150 lbs, and that is being generous, I think it was actually 145. Therefore Deathstroke can lift around 1500 to 1800 lbs.

Steve has been shown repping 1100 lbs. That is repping, which means he can possibly lift a bit more than that. Steve is still weaker than Deathstroke though, Steve could go against Deathstroke and wing 4/10.

Steve against Bruce would be a 7/10 H2H, 6/10 Shield and gadgets Steve in favor. 

That's kinda my take on it. 
"
What does Deathstroke have anything to do with this?Dick stalemated Slade recently and Bruce beat him up so badly that he got owned by a thug later.Batman has been seen repping 1000lbs as well.Batman beats Steve cause his displays of H2H and martial arts knowledge has been better than Steve's.
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#41  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@entropy_aegis:  Deathstroke's powers were waning before, and after his first fight with Batman in Slade's on-going. In their second fight in Detective Comics, Deathstroke even gave Batman two free hits to let him know he couldn't hurt him, then beat him up in a single page, which is what I presume Slim is referring to.
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weaponmaster

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#42  Edited By weaponmaster


Steve Rogers Captain America defeats Bruce wayne Batman after a long, drawn out fight.

 

Dick Grayson Batman defeats Bucky Barnes Captain America.

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entropy_aegis

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#43  Edited By entropy_aegis
@Morpheus_ said:
" @entropy_aegis:  Deathstroke's powers were waning before, and after his first fight with Batman in Slade's on-going. In their second fight in Detective Comics, Deathstroke even gave Batman two free hits to let him know he couldn't hurt him, then beat him up in a single page, which is what I presume Slim is referring to. "
No i want to know why Deathstroke becomes the auto measuring stick for Cap with regards to DC characters?
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morpheus_

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#44  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
@entropy_aegis:  Everyone seems to automatically make the connection between the process that enhanced Steve and the one that enhanced Slade, I fancy. The general idea being that "if a supersoldier from DC can beat X (insert random street level character name here), a supersoldier from Marvel can do it, too".
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Silver2467

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#45  Edited By Silver2467

For the record, Deathstroke has also been described as having the strength of 20 men, and he has several abilities that Steve does not, such as his mental properties and healing factor, while Steve has a certain skill advantage over him. So the comparison is lacking to begin with.

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entropy_aegis

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#46  Edited By entropy_aegis
@Morpheus_ said:
" @entropy_aegis:  Everyone seems to automatically make the connection between the process that enhanced Steve and the one that enhanced Slade, I fancy. The general idea being that "if a supersoldier from DC can beat X (insert random street level character name here), a supersoldier from Marvel can do it, too". "
Exactly that's stupid.
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Ghost_Knight

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#47  Edited By Ghost_Knight

Bruce vs Steve could go either way it depends on where the fight goes really. If they remain in a fight where they're using standard gear (basically Steve's shield vs Bruce's gadgets) then I'd give it to Bruce since he has a variety of weapons to deal with Steve and would be capable of disarming Steve of his shield as it's happened to Steve several times before in combat. On the other hand, if they make this a melee or hth combat fight I see Steve winning due to being physically superior to Bruce on top of being an elite martial artist making him the better hth combat although he's not as skilled as Bruce IMO. 

 Bucky vs Dick I see going Dick's way whether its a standard fight or hth/melee combat due to being physically superior (except in strength since Bucky does have that one arm), more skilled, and better weaponry. Dick's showings since becoming Batman have been more impressive than Bucky's since he became Captain America.
 
Overall, I see Dick defeating Bucky before a winner between the Bruce/Steve fight can be decided which would in fact take a LONG time to play out (no matter who you think wins) in which case Dick will be able to help out Bruce against Steve winning them the fight.
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the_stegman

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#48  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

ok....the Bruce vs Steve battle has  been done COUNTLESS times with many people on either side, i' m giving it to Bruce for the following reasons

1. he's a better fighter, while steve has fought in world war II and trained there, it pales in comparison to the ten year journey that Bruce has went through learning hundreds of different fighting moves and techniques and inventing a few himself, he knows all there is to know about the human body, pressure points, pain receptors, vulnerable spots, he can systematically take steve down

2 the main argument for steve is that he's stronger/faster than bruce, well bruce has taken on people stronger than him Bane,Killer Croc, Grundy, etc people faster than him he's sparred with Wonder Woman, superman, dick grayson (who is more agile than him) Deathstroke, and he's fought people with better fighting skills and knowledge than him Bronze tiger, Lady Shiva, Ra's Al Ghul etc having a SLIGHT physical advantage ( i say slight because steve isn't THAT much stronger than bruce, steve can lift around 500lbs while bruce benches around 300) isn't going to matter
3.finally his saving grace is his utility belt, while steve's shield can be thrown, or used to protect...thats about all it can do, while batman has knockout gas, smoke bombs, stun grenades, electric brass knuckles, bolas, grappling hooks, explosives, batarangs and much more.


now as for the grayson/bucky fight, i dont see why people say bucky will win, grayson is better than him in EVERY category

he's stronger, faster, more agile, has a wider array of weapons, is a better tactician, strategist and leader, and knows much more fighting stypes, like  Bruce, he's fought people much stronger than him so that bio arm of bucky won't help much, in the end the Bats defeat the Caps

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slimj87d

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#49  Edited By slimj87d
@entropy_aegis said:
" @SlimJ87D said:
" @The_Elemetal said:
" @SlimJ87D:  True i see where you are coming from especially with Bucky's arm and since the OP doesnt state anything about prior knowledge of each other. it could go either way, because I can see Dick getting caught off guard by Bucky, but with his prior experience as Nightwing he might be able to react just in time, I guess we would just have to see if they ever fought who would be the victor. But what is your angle on Steve vs Bruce "
This was my analysis awhile back. Deathstroke beat Batman in H2H. Batman even had the element of surprise. Deathstroke beat him very badly, it didn't even look like Batman had a chance. I don't know if Batman could pull off it win against Deathstroke, it would be maybe 2/10 for Batman. Don't forget that Deathstroke schooled Dick as Nightwing so bad that NIghtwing had to pay him off to not assassinate the person he was protecting. 

Deathstroke is 10X the average man. The average man can bench about 150 lbs, and that is being generous, I think it was actually 145. Therefore Deathstroke can lift around 1500 to 1800 lbs.

Steve has been shown repping 1100 lbs. That is repping, which means he can possibly lift a bit more than that. Steve is still weaker than Deathstroke though, Steve could go against Deathstroke and wing 4/10.

Steve against Bruce would be a 7/10 H2H, 6/10 Shield and gadgets Steve in favor. 

That's kinda my take on it. 
"
What does Deathstroke have anything to do with this?Dick stalemated Slade recently and Bruce beat him up so badly that he got owned by a thug later.Batman has been seen repping 1000lbs as well.Batman beats Steve cause his displays of H2H and martial arts knowledge has been better than Steve's. "
Dick stalemating Deathstroke is PIS. Ask anyone. What does Deathstroke have to do with anything? Read my post. His strength, speed and reflexes toppled with his skilled allowed him to severely own Batman and Nightwing. 
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#50  Edited By slimj87d
@Morpheus_ said:

" @entropy_aegis:  Everyone seems to automatically make the connection between the process that enhanced Steve and the one that enhanced Slade, I fancy. The general idea being that "if a supersoldier from DC can beat X (insert random street level character name here), a supersoldier from Marvel can do it, too". "

@entropy_aegis said:

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @entropy_aegis:  Everyone seems to automatically make the connection between the process that enhanced Steve and the one that enhanced Slade, I fancy. The general idea being that "if a supersoldier from DC can beat X (insert random street level character name here), a supersoldier from Marvel can do it, too". "

Exactly that's stupid. "
You guys did not even read my analysis... I never even said or hinted that Deathstroke = Captain America.
" This was my analysis awhile back. Deathstroke beat Batman in H2H. Batman even had the element of surprise. Deathstroke beat him very badly, it didn't even look like Batman had a chance. I don't know if Batman could pull off it win against Deathstroke, it would be maybe 2/10 for Batman. Don't forget that Deathstroke schooled Dick as Nightwing so bad that NIghtwing had to pay him off to not assassinate the person he was protecting. 
Deathstroke is 10X the average man. The average man can bench about 150 lbs, and that is being generous, I think it was actually 145. Therefore Deathstroke can lift around 1500 to 1800 lbs.

Steve has been shown repping 1100 lbs. That is repping, which means he can possibly lift a bit more than that. Steve is still weaker than Deathstroke though, Steve could go against Deathstroke and wing 4/10.

Steve against Bruce would be a 7/10 H2H, 6/10 Shield and gadgets Steve in favor. 

That's kinda my take on it. "
Entropy, I think you just read what you wanted to read in my post, but didn't grasp at all what I was getting at. 

@Silver2467 said: 

" For the record, Deathstroke has also been described as having the strength of 20 men, and he has several abilities that Steve does not, such as his mental properties and healing factor, while Steve has a certain skill advantage over him. So the comparison is lacking to begin with. "


   Where does it say that? That would totally throw my analysis off. Yes, the healing factor and mind is a big deal as well, but don't forget the super soldier serum peaked Steve's mind strategically as well, not as good as Slades. 



Point is, I never said Steve = Deathstroke. You guys think I did. I'm showing that Batman has problems with someone highly skilled as himself that are enhanced. yeah, Steve is not as enhanced as Salde, but he is enhanced enough that that would be his  benefactor over Bruce. Steve is not going to tire as quickly as Bruce is, on top of that his stronger, faster and more agile and their skills are very close. Therefore Steve beats Bruce.