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#51 Edited by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawn_of_ages said:

@mygod101:

All you did was cry in that post.

That's a weird of spelling refuted every single one of your points. Concession accepted.

I remember that initial attack of Sidious killing all of Mace allies, but as I said you can't have your cake and eat it as well. Meaning it still doesn't stop People from admitting that Sidious lost that fight, anyways that just something you Sidious Elitist use to pump him up, when push comes to shove you will go against that same Quote, and use it against Sidious saying he still lost.

Because it outright they failed to react to Sidious' speed. And not a single quote in Canon says Sidious lost that fight, lmao.

Mother Talzin is here why? she was nearly killed off by Grevious, and turn corporeal. Are we going to say Grevious is above Mace windu now? If you didn't understand, It called inconsistency.

Except Talzin never fought Grevious. She fled and Grevious had an entire battalion backing him up.

Talzin was brought up because she faced both Mace and Sidious. And guess what? Sidious fares far better. And no it isn't attributed to inconsistency. In a comparison of their performances against similar opponents Mace has both times been outperformed by Sidious:

  • Mace engages Maul in a duel and fails to capture him; Sidious instantly incapacitates Maul with TK
  • Mace stalemates Talzin; Sidious disarms her nigh-instantly

The only thing Mace has going for him against Sidious is the RotS duel which is highly suspect given that

  • Mace fails to react to Sidious' initial attack
  • Sidious has Mace at blade point but for some reason decides not to end it there i.e. he's stalling
  • Sidious was overpowering him with Lightning while holding back and faking weakness

why are you Making Excuses for why Sidious died? You said he was Amp as if this was the first time This has happened in Star wars, that is the theme of Stars people getting amps and more powerful, this amp was Warranted...since Sidious Weakened Vader to the point he had to learn to fight all over again and refine his style because of Sidious being scared of him. That is not even counting the Fact that Sidious had a Off switch just incase Vader got out of line so I could talk about Sidious having all that, so the amp was fair game buddy stop crying and accept that Vader beat Sidious and killed him.

Except said amp isn't present in the battle and hence irrelevant. Not to mention that amp only allowed Vader to tank said lightning for a couple of seconds, and what several feet? And yet he still dies.

My point was, that she is far stronger than she was then and is able to handle Form Sith of Maul level pretty well now. Ahsoka in Rebels would be Master Level Jedi if she was still in the order. so...showing me that was ultimately irrelevant since I never said at any point that TCW Ahsoka could beat TCW Maul, but whatever it is your time that is being wasted not mine.

No one's denying Ahsoka's placement, lmao.

What's in dispute is using her clashing blades with Maul literally once isn't proof that she can handle SoD Maul.

LMFAO, when that question was asked, the Actor that was voicing Maul laughed and outright said Vader would destroyMaul, and that Maul stood no chance against the empire. Then he stated that Maul vs an inquisitor then the inquisitor is in deep trouble...Judging by how Maul owned the Inquisitor I take his word for it.

LMFAO. We're using actor statements now? I guess that means Rey>Mace and Anakin 👍

That maul just being Maul, point is he never intended to fight Vader to began with so

Literally the only thing that suggests Maul was avoiding Vader was the "I can't defeat Vader alone" statement which turns out to be a lie when Maul ends up trying to kill them anyway.

So what's there left to suggest that he never intended to fight Vader? Nothing.

Bringing that up since it was clear from his fight with Kahan (who Vader toyed casually, and Kahan stated they were lucky to be alive after that fight. )Let not forget that Vader was able to grab Kahan's Light saber in mid swing and turn it off.

And Maul blitzed Kanan. How is Kanan relevant here again?

If you are going to Acknowledge the fact that Sidious Initial swing had Mace off Guard

Except nothing suggests it was Mace being caught off guard. Mace and his allies just didn't have reflexes fast enough to react. And no, it wasn't a mere swing. Sidious leapt the room and thrust his blade into all of Mace's allies all of whom Mace failed to defend.

Vader force pushing Ahsoka under normal circumstance was a pretty much instant win, eliminate the distraction from the Holocron then Ahsoka is dead 6 ways till sunday.

No one's denying Vader was beating her but nothing indicates it was an instant win. The fight lasted for at least a minute, it's far from instant.

No concession was made here, I just getting tired of you crying for Sidious is all.

Because it outright they failed to react to Sidious' speed. And not a single quote in Canon says Sidious lost that fight, lmao.

Okay, I know this, But like I said that wasn't my argument, My argument was that doesn't stop people from using said fight saying Sidious lost.

Except Talzin never fought Grevious. She fled and Grevious had an entire battalion backing him up.

Talzin was brought up because she faced both Mace and Sidious. And guess what? Sidious fares far better. And no it isn't attributed to inconsistency. In a comparison of their performances against similar opponents Mace has both times been outperformed by Sidious:

  • Mace engages Maul in a duel and fails to capture him; Sidious instantly incapacitates Maul with TK
  • Mace stalemates Talzin; Sidious disarms her nigh-instantly

The only thing Mace has going for him against Sidious is the RotS duel which is highly suspect given that

  • Mace fails to react to Sidious' initial attack
  • Sidious has Mace at blade point but for some reason decides not to end it there i.e. he's stalling
  • Sidious was overpowering him with Lightning while holding back and faking weakness

sure he brought an Army, she had any entire planet ready to fight for her, Lastly it was Grevious who dealt the killing blow on Talzin not his army. Go back and watch the scene again, Dooku was in pain and he order Grevious to find Talzin which he took a hand full of people to follow him to where she was at while the others slaughtered the night sisters. I think your memory much be getting bad in your old age, don't try and deceive people...If you are going to mention something in an argument against someone make sure you tell the full story.

Except said amp isn't present in the battle and hence irrelevant. Not to mention that amp only allowed Vader to tank said lightning for a couple of seconds, and what several feet? And yet he still dies.

it was a combination of Vader's Suit giving out, and Vader letting go his hate. Vader wanted to die...I mean he killed his father figure finally, and he had something in Luke to be proud again, so he welcomed death as a friend.

No one's denying Ahsoka's placement, lmao.

What's in dispute is using her clashing blades with Maul literally once isn't proof that she can handle SoD Maul.

Well, then don't use Ahsoka as an anti feat against Vader. If she can't handle Maul then she sure as hell can't handle Vader.

think your arguments through.

LMFAO. We're using actor statements now? I guess that means Rey>Mace and Anakin 👍

the Difference here is the Maul and Vader statements are backed up, with statements while you are just throwing ignorance with the Rey thing with nothing to back that up. What evidence do you have to back up the actor's claim about Rey being >mace and Anakin? Maul statement is back up by the fact Obi-wan can defeat Maul(it doesn't matter, if he has experience with Maul's fighting style because the same rule would apply with Vader as well since he has trained against Maul fighting Droid while as a Padawan) and the fact that Kahan defeated him while Blinded.

Literally the only thing that suggests Maul was avoiding Vader was the "I can't defeat Vader alone" statement which turns out to be a lie when Maul ends up trying to kill them anyway.

So what's there left to suggest that he never intended to fight Vader? Nothing.

well...the Fact that Kahan beat Maul also backs up the statements, of what the Actor was saying about Vader would Destroy Maul. The same Actor also said that if Maul fights an inquisitors, then that inquisitor would be in big trouble...which was true. So, from what we gathered, He has far more credibility then the Actor you claim said Rey was greater than Mace and Anakin with nothing to back that up.

And Maul blitzed Kanan. How is Kanan relevant here again?

It doesn't matter if Maul Blitzed Kanan, what matters is did Maul win the fight with Kanan? If you can't respond to that then you should stop replying because you are just going to dodge every other question as well.

Except nothing suggests it was Mace being caught off guard. Mace and his allies just didn't have reflexes fast enough to react. And no, it wasn't a mere swing. Sidious leapt the room and thrust his blade into all of Mace's allies all of whom Mace failed to defend.

No disagreeing with that, what I am saying is it still doesn't stop the people from saying Sidious lost that fight. If you are unable to see that then just move on from that because we will be here all day discussing something so trivial that has nothing to do with the thread at hand.

No one's denying Vader was beating her but nothing indicates it was an instant win. The fight lasted for at least a minute, it's far from instant.

Well...the fact that Vader didn't Capitalize after that, and went after the Holocron tells me he would have easily won. as Obi-wan would say: he has the high ground!!

So... like I said the duel was basically over the moment Vader force pushed her off that platform, her only way of getting back up there was to confront a waiting Vader who would kill her in that moment so yes the fight was over. the fact that Vader took his eyes off that to go get the holocron says he was never threatened by her and that she was insignificant.

I have responded to your post, about maul the Must hilarious part is this is like Vader 2-3 years Before ANH, Vader after killing obi-wan got Significantly more powerful so again, Maul is irrelevant in the long run anyways.

I told you my stands was about Sidious, regardless of the amp, it wasn't that Sidious was more powerful it was the fact that Sidious has an on and off switch that he can use against Vader to turn him off when ever he pleases. so, if we are going to cry about BS power up, lets first address the elephant in the room. what Sidious had over Vader was BS and the fact that Vader killed him hey it speaks volume.

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#52 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (681 posts) - - Show Bio
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#53 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@dawnofages @mygod101

Do you think it makes a difference if I allow Legenda feats for Obi Wan?

Me personally...no I don't, because Vader is just far to powerful here. the only thing which is not making this a complete curbstomp is Vader being conflicted here.

since he actually cared for Obi-wan at one point.

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#54 Posted by Deadlyeyes (276 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader

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#55 Posted by deactivated-5cdf8e3e9b353 (646 posts) - - Show Bio

@rgr said:

@mygod101 said:

stop crying and accept that Vader beat Sidious and killed him

Vader didn't beat Sidious, that was a cheapshot, taking advantage of the fact that Sidious was focused on Luke. Sidious is clearly more powerful than Vader, though the latter is arguably a little bit more skilled with a lightsaber.

@dawn_of_ages said:

Because it outright they failed to react to Sidious' speed. And not a single quote in Canon says Sidious lost that fight, lmao.

No Caption Provided

-Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2018)

They failed to react because they underestimated him and he had prep ("...none of them expected to face the power of the Sith Lord. His innocent appearance, along with an application of a concentrated dark side confusion haze, enabled Darth Sidious to take down Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto and Saesee Tinn").

Mace won the lightsaber duel, but you're right that not a single quote has Palps losing the fight because "it was Anakin Skywalker who severed Mace Windu's arm, allowing Darth Sidious to win the fight".

The fact the Jedi underestimated him is further supported by Star Wars Insider #187:

No Caption Provided

Vader didn't beat Sidious, that was a cheapshot, taking advantage of the fact that Sidious was focused on Luke. Sidious is clearly more powerful than Vader, though the latter is arguably a little bit more skilled with a lightsaber.

Sidious Suppressing Vader For losing to Obi-wan isn't one? There is Reason to Believe Vader would most likely beat Sidious in a duel of light Sabers because Sidious is crap at it. No one, Argued that Vader was stronger in the Force than Sidious. What I am arguing is that Vader was going to surpass Sidious in the force, since a Suppressed Vader was gaining on him.

People Don't give Vader the credit he deserves, because they think Vader folds to anyone with Force lightning when that isn't true at all. Being Honest here, a fight Between Sidious and Vader would almost never happen...not because of Force lightning, but because Sidious has a button to turn off Vaders Suit whenever he pleases rendering Vader immobile.

Force lightning doesn't one shot Vader, but it is super effective against him thanks to Sidious Suppressing him, but he one shot Vader because of the control for his suit. There are Two ways to Stop Force lightning which Vader knows.

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#56 Posted by Jerrah13 (109 posts) - - Show Bio

Paytience said:

Official canon has Obi Wan beating him every time. Prime vader power wise was Anakin.

It's the exact opposite. Vader wins with mid-difficulty in every encounter. Prime Vader is stated to be during Rebels/OT. RotS is when Vader is at his weakest due to his inexperience with the dark side, to the point that despite receiving a power boost when he betrayed Mace, he remained equally matched with Kenobi.

Paytience said:

and outside of the original trilogy...Vader has almost none.

Star Wars 2015, Darth Vader 2015, Darth Vader 2017, Dark Visions, Dr. Aphra, LotS, Tarkin, Thrawn: Alliances.

There's plenty to pick from and the sum total outshines Kenobi's.

As for Mace v Palps, there are multiple canon sources confirming Mace put him on his ass and Palpatine required Anakin's help to create an opening for him to counterattack. The fight choreography doesn't do it justice, but it is what it is.

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#57 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader

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#58 Posted by FriendlySpider6 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader easily