Can Pre N52 Wally steal the Kinetic energy from the Cyttorak behemoth?
Can Wally West speed steal Juggernaut?
I’d argue he could not if juggernaut is in motion, otherwise flash could, but Cytorak would probably give him his back or create a barrier that avoids it.
@p00ty: Hulk was only able to stop Juggernaut due to being amped by Celestial Tech... and even then that was written by Peter David who previously had Professor Hulk drop Juggernaut to his knees with one punch, so I question the legitimacy of his writing. Unless you're talking about that one vague claim the writer of World War Hulk: X-Men #3 made where he said Green Scar stopped Cain's charge, but that was directly contradictory to what was actually shown on panel.
OT: I seriously doubt his speed stealing would be able to overcome Cyttorak's power if Cain is in motion, but I guess it's up to the writer.
Can Flash speed steal Captain Marvel who is magic based? If so, he should be able to speed steal juggernaut.
Jay Garrick was able to speed steal Black Adam, Black Adam is empowered by God's similarly to Juggernaut. There powers are magic based.
So I'd say yes, Juggernaut should be able to have his speed stolen.
@watcher5000: Because it's the specific ability that Cyttorak gives him?
Can Flash speed steal Captain Marvel who is magic based? If so, he should be able to speed steal juggernaut.
Jay Garrick was able to speed steal Black Adam, Black Adam is empowered by God's similarly to Juggernaut. There powers are magic based.
So I'd say yes, Juggernaut should be able to have his speed stolen.
I don't think these two things are really equivalent. Black Adam has super speed through magical means, i.e. all it does is make him faster than normal. Cyttorak's power though explicitly makes it so that Juggernaut can't be stopped when in motion, which is completely different to super speed, and also a lot more relevant to Flash's speed stealing.
It depends on if it is jobbing Juggs or if the Cyttorak is serious in aiding him. If it is the latter, then definitely not.
@pipxeroth: I agree that it is completely up to the writer. The Speed force is a multiversal energy and I believe Cytorak is also. The only reason I think Flash can stop him is because Cain usually doesn't tap fully into Cytorak power.
Can Flash speed steal Captain Marvel who is magic based? If so, he should be able to speed steal juggernaut.
Jay Garrick was able to speed steal Black Adam, Black Adam is empowered by God's similarly to Juggernaut. There powers are magic based.
So I'd say yes, Juggernaut should be able to have his speed stolen.
I don't think these two things are really equivalent. Black Adam has super speed through magical means, i.e. all it does is make him faster than normal. Cyttorak's power though explicitly makes it so that Juggernaut can't be stopped when in motion, which is completely different to super speed, and also a lot more relevant to Flash's speed stealing.
Cyttorak's power gives Juggernaut a vast amount of kinetic energy. When he moves forward, he has tons of invisible mass that continues to grow, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to have his speed stolen. Flash doesn't completely stop his foe, he slows them down so they're moving extremely slow. Juggernaut will still have that near infinity mass of his moving forward, he'll just be moving extremely slow as he does it.
That's really a tough question. It's basically the Cyttorak vs Speed Force. Do you go with the mystical gem that allows an object to move so that it can't be stopped giving it "unstoppable momentum" or the force that governs a large portion of the laws of physics and momentum to begin with? I'll go with the ladder.
Side question: If Juggernaut can't be stopped when he's already moving then what would happen if you froze time around him?
Yes he can speed steal juggernaut but he will still be running at the same speed
He can't stop juggernaut but he can become faster
@apex_pretador: That's an interesting view on the situation
I would say he could, technically, but since Juggs technically has infinite momentum he will never actually stop him.
So I'd say yes, Juggernaut should be able to have his speed stolen.
Television
Adventure Time:
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Angel:
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Ben 10:
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Chaotic:
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DC Animated Universe:
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Dexter:
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Dune:
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Family Guy:
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Firefly:
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The Flash:
@zearing@dreadpool10@strafe_prower@supremegeneration@nerdchore@sromero78@the_real_seaman@khael@jdg@kcminato@indomitableregal@lejon@jiraiya_sageofoil@wispymatt@kingcurry30@elijah_c_washington@batman3000 @sanitrize1999@gainz@thesuperor@blackspidey2099
Freakazoid:
Futurama:
@dratini1331@sophia89@princearagorn1@cpt_nice@agentsandman
Game of Thrones:
@princearagorn1@deadpoolvironfist@pope052@fallschirmjager@jedixman@godzilla44@sophia89@cregan_stark@i_like_swords@The_Deathstroker@thenaughtytitan@superdrummer@zill0678@marty2187@sergeant-rl3 @lubub55@thecrazybean@the_wspanialy@thesuperor@xerolot@demohardt@educated@abelhsu@chronicplane@the_red_viper
Green Lantern: The Animated Series:
Hannibal:
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He-Man and the Masters of the Universe:
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Heroes:
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House:
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Into The Badlands:
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Iron Man: Armored Adventures:
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Jessica Jones:
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Jimmy Neutron:
Kim Possible:
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@sanitrize1999@gainz@thesuperor@blackspidey2099
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My Little Pony:
Nikita:
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Regular Show:
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Rick and Morty:
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Rome:
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Sherlock:
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Sleepy Hollow:
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Smallville:
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Spider-Man: The Animated Series:
@pokeysteve@princearagorn1@dreadpool10
Star vs forces of evil:
Star Trek:
@the_imperator@616vulture@fetts@floopay@princearagorn1@floopay@kcminato@sergeant-rl3
Steven Universe:
@cooldes@princearagorn1@khael@cpt_nice@jaycool2
Supernatural:
@rbt@misterwhisper@fallschirmjager@jmarshmallow@princearagorn1@lowlaville@pokeysteve@the_imperator@comicace3@pern@floopay@thenaughtytitan@americanspeeddemon@dygoboy@marty2187
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles:
@616vulture@tparks@granitesoldier@princearagorn1@kcminato@darth_wayne@anthp2000
Teen Titans:
@funsiized@deathstroke19@sophia89@floopay@princearagorn1@joewell@nerdchore@kcminato@indomitableregal@batman3000@jaycool2@deathhero61
Teen Wolf:
@strafe_prower@indomitableregal@marty2187
ThunderCats:
@dccomicsrule2011@princearagorn1@indomitableregal@oceanmaster21
True Blood:
@cregan_stark@lukehero@indomitableregal@marty2187@sergeant-rl3
The Vampire Diaries:
@rbt@princearagorn1@strafe_prower@khael@marty2187
The Venture Brothers:
@floopay@sophia89@princearagorn1@vashtanerada88
Vikings:
Voltron: Legendary Defender
The Walking Dead:
@sync1@sophia89@princearagorn1@carter_esque@jayc1324@pope052@jackjack390@strafe_prower@newcomer@nerdchore@thenaughtytitan@kingcurry30
Young Justice:
@dratini1331@stormdriven@godzilla44@pokeysteve@rbt@funsiized@sync1@pierpat@allstarsuperman@sophia89@princearagorn1@@allstarsuperman@supremegeneration@newcomer@darthsenju@kcminato@indomitableregal@dygoboy@jucaslucasa@kingcurry30@batman3000@jaycool2@chronicplane@jedixman
Movies
300:
@friorey@princearagorn1@sophia89@ouroborik@indomitableregal
The Amazing Spider-Man Movies:
@zearing@jackjack390@dreadpool10@supremegeneration@parichithayerakala@nerdchore@kcminato@emperorthanos@indomitableregal@dygoboy @wispymatt@blackspidey2099
Blade Trilogy:
@floopay@indomitableregal@wastelandman@zill0678
Bourne:
@iheartzombies92@pokeysteve@emperorthanos@the_real_seaman@indomitableregal @lubub55@the_wspanialy@thecrazybean
The Chronicle:
Andrew Detmer:
@sync1@iheartzombies92@bullettimer
The Chronicles of Narnia:
DCEU
@wastelandman@dygoboy@matchesmalone21@ouroborik@zill0678@darth_wayne@wispymatt@indomitableregal@kingcurry30@teefurtree@sergeant-rl3@batman3000@gainz@foxerdes @the_wspanialy@xerolot@larcadedragneel@chronicplane@jedixman
Man of Steel:
@sync1@pokeysteve@batman242@godzilla44@iheartzombies92@fallschirmjager@allstarsuperman@sophia89@zearing@dreadpool10@ouroborik@indomitableregal@dygoboy@teefurtree@sergeant-rl3@gainz@xerolot@jedixman
The Dark Knight Trilogy:
@rbt@pokeysteve@godzilla44@fallschirmjager@jokerpoker@sophia89@jayc1324@jackjack390@dreadpool10@emperorthanos@thenaughtytitan@indomitableregal@zill0678@batman3000 @sanitrize1999 @lubub55@jedixman
Godzilla:
@betatesthighlander1@fu-dog007@ouroborik@toratorn@masterofluck123@blackestnight93:@indomitableregal@zill0678@sirfizzwhizz@sergeant-rl3@super_saiyan_devil
The Hobbit Trilogy:
@emperorthanos@darthsenju@nerdchore@marty2187 @exmaster3000 @the_wspanialy
Harry Potter:
@The_Deathstroker@sophia89@dreadpool10@strafe_prower@emperorthanos@americanspeeddemon@khael@anthp2000@sergeant-rl3 @sanitrize1999@thesuperor@larcadedragneel
Hellboy
@wastelandman@indomitableregal@super_saiyan_devil
The Hunger Games:
@strafe_prower@zill0678@darth_wayne@larcadedragneel
Indiana Jones:
Ip Man:
@youngkaiser@emperorthanos@xerolot@educated@jedixman
James Bond:
@the_real_seaman@bullettimer@emperorthanos @lubub55@thecrazybean
Kelly's Heroes:
Kick-Ass:
@allstarsuperman@bullettimer@indomitableregal@dygoboy
Kingsmen:
@the_real_seaman@indomitableregal@dygoboy@sergeant-rl3@thecrazybean
Krrish:
Kung Fu Panda:
@full123@marty2187 @sanitrize1999
The Legend of Zorro:
Lord of the Rings:
@iheartzombies92@lunacyde@pope052@The_Deathstroker@darthsenju@pipxeroth@nerdchore@bullettimer@zill0678@darth_wayne@marty2187 @exmaster3000@thecrazybean@the_wspanialy@xerolot@abelhsu@chronicplane
Marvel Cinematic Universe:
@pokeysteve@pope052@lukehero@fallschirmjager@stupid_people@sophia89@zearing@jackjack390@dreadpool10@emperorthanos@floopay@ouroborik@americanspeeddemon@pipxeroth@nerdchore@thenaughtytitan@the_real_seaman@spector_rand@kcminato@indomitableregal@wastelandman@jiraiya_sageofoil@zill0678@darth_wayne@wispymatt@kingcurry30@gainz@sergeant-rl3@foxerdes @the_wspanialy@thorthunder98@xerolot@demohardt@larcadedragneel@blackspidey2099@chronicplane@jedixman
Black Widow:
@ironshinobi88@allstarsuperman@jiraiya_sageofoil@sergeant-rl3@gainz@demohardt@jedixman
Captain America:
@ironshinobi88@thenaughtytitan@jiraiya_sageofoil@elijah_c_washington@teefurtree@sergeant-rl3@gainz@demohardt@jedixman
Iron Man:
@ironshinobi88@jiraiya_sageofoil@sergeant-rl3@gainz@demohardt@jedixman
Vision:
@ironshinobi88@jiraiya_sageofoil@gainz@demohardt
The Matrix:
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Predator:
@pokeysteve@emperorthanos@sergeant-rl3 @exmaster3000
The Raid:
@emperorthanos@jucaslucasa@indomitableregal
Rambo:
@pokeysteve@allstarsuperman @lubub55
Riddick:
@rbt@thenaughtytitan@indomitableregal@zill0678
Original Spider-Man Trilogy:
@pokeysteve@fallschirmjager@zearing@dreadpool10@emperorthanos@indomitableregal@dygoboy @sanitrize1999@blackspidey2099@jedixman
Ong Bak Trilogy:
@floopay@bullettimer@indomitableregal@dygoboy@educated
Pirates of the Caribbean:
Transformers:
@norrinboltagonprime21@ninjawarrior268@dreadpool10@wispymatt@sergeant-rl3
Underworld:
@lukehero@allstarsuperman@floopay@indomitableregal@zill0678@sergeant-rl3
Undisputed
@emperorthanos@indomitableregal@the_wspanialy
X-Men Series:
@floopay@americanspeeddemon@parichithayerakala@thenaughtytitan@khael@emperorthanos@indomitableregal@xerolot@jiraiya_sageofoil@wispymatt@youngkaiser@sergeant-rl3@jedixman
I would just like to set this straight with you since you seem to bring up the fight a lot. You say Deathstroke wasn't hindered skill-wise when he lost to Ra's al Ghul, but I disagree, if only for very specific reasons only someone who reads all of Slade's appearances would be able to recognize - this is me not trying to sound pretentious. As I brought up on that Katana vs Ra's thread however long ago, Slade admitted he was taking the fight personally when he fought him, which might not be a big deal when said by someone else, but not when coming out of the mouth of Slade "The only ever fights I lost were personal mistakes" Wilson. Deathstroke, in the same continuity, has flat-out said his fighting style is based on indifference, even when talking about his sword specifically:
I think your previous points about me just trying to justify Slade's loss can be summed by a quote from chemist Fred Menger, who wrote: "If you torture data sufficiently, it will confess to almost anything." Does that sound about right? Well, the problem with that is emotion has long been established as one of Deathstroke's only weaknesses, along with devices that specifically target his increased brain resources (IE, one of the only ways I think Batman could beat him). Bonny may or may not have forgotten that, sure, but it's still like, super relevant when looking at Deathstroke as a whole.
Moreover, one noticeable, objective fact is that Slade employed none of the same tactics he's used against other swordsmen in that fight: Slade is fond of catching and breaking swords, which he made no attempt to do; he blocks sword strikes with his armored gauntlets, which he made no attempt to do; he will often unpredictably throw his sword, which he made no attempt to do; he will let himself get stabbed to create an opening because he know his healing factor can take it, which he made no attempt to do; and so forth. He definitely had the chance to use some of these tactics at times in the fight like when Ra's stabbed him in the arm, but he instead opted to punch him in the face like an idiot. And then at the end of the fight, you'd have to believe that being tripped is enough to seriously hurt Deathstroke, going off the way he clutched his head and needed help standing up.
It was a really low-showing for him all in all, and yet you're trying to pass off of him keeping up with Ra's as one of his best skill feats in that Darth Bane thread, and that's kinda where I draw the line. I just don't get it. Regardless, I stopped caring about New-52 and especially DC-YOU Slade that much because he was inconsistent in general, and try to stick to either pre-Flashpoint, Rebirth, or pre-Flashpoint + Rebirth as I'm doing in my CaV with Nick. I mean, under the same writer who had Slade lose to Ra's, he barely broke in and out of Belle Reev and escaped alive, something which pre-52 Slade did incredibly easily in Faces of Evil: Deathstroke.
@chronicplane: lol, that guy's a troll I think.
@all-father: how the he'll do you expect him to steal the speed of a being who is omniversaL and doesn't need to move in the first place?
@beyondthestomper: It's an inside joke that new users won't understand
Yes he can speed steal juggernaut but he will still be running at the same speed
He can't stop juggernaut but he can become faster
This actually makes a lot of sense. Way better answer than "he can" or "he can't".
Yes he can speed steal juggernaut but he will still be running at the same speed
He can't stop juggernaut but he can become faster
This actually makes a lot of sense. Way better answer than "he can" or "he can't".
Can he steal magical based speed?
@cable_extreme: Whether someone wants to argue he can or can't, one thing is for sure. He can't stop him.
@krleavenger: don’t they have to ddrive thier power from the speed force in order to be stopped? Isn’t the speed force responsible for everyone’s Speed, the whole space/time relationship of reality? Or at least I read in Flash volume 4 #8.
People from other realities and other comic book resources wouldn’t dirive thier speed from the speed force. So you are correct, Juggs shouldn’t stop. Cyttorak is more powerful than the speed force imo.
@krleavenger: don’t they have to ddrive thier power from the speed force in order to be stopped? Isn’t the speed force responsible for everyone’s Speed, the whole space/time relationship of reality? Or at least I read in Flash volume 4 #8.
People from other realities and other comic book resources wouldn’t dirive thier speed from the speed force. So you are correct, Juggs shouldn’t stop. Cyttorak is more powerful than the speed force imo.
I think Cyttorak operates in a complete different area than the speed force
@cable_extreme: Yes they do. The Speed Force is the source of their power.
nope juggy is not tied to the speedforce
If you read comic books more you would know that you don't need to be tied to the speed force to get your speed stolen.
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