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#1 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio
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The Monster Trio arrives in the battlefield after Raditz knock out Goku.

Can they hold Raditz for 5 minutes until Piccolo charges his Makankosappo ?

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#2 Posted by grappolo (2960 posts) - - Show Bio

They can't even last 5 seconds.

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#3 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#4 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2925 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

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#5 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

If Raditz has already been damaged by Gohan then the answer is 100% yes. Without the Gohan damage, it might be more interesting...

You guys should keep in mind that a group is greater than the sum of its parts. Sanji can lock up Raditz' legs or something to give them a big advantage. Goku was alone when he did it, and his injuries were very bad.

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#6 Posted by TheDeathstroke (2925 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: I doubt Sanji could even lock up Doflamingo’s legs. A weakend radditz would mostly likely one shot him.

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#7 Posted by GoldenCellForm2 (202 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku who was battered and bruised with broken ribs could hold Raditz, I don't see why Big 3 can't.

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#8 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: I doubt Sanji could even lock up Doflamingo’s legs. A weakend radditz would mostly likely one shot him.

I don't think this is a fight. It's just asking if the trio can hold Raditz in Goku's place. So I'm assuming they have, somehow, all managed to dogpile Raditz and lock him up as best they know how to. Sanji knows everything there is to know about leg fighting so I figure he could actually put a lot of pressure on Raditz with some kind of leg lock. Zoro would probably have all three of his blades pressed against the weakest, vital point of Raditz's body. And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

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#11 Posted by Namiii (250 posts) - - Show Bio

No, Raditz wins easily.

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#12 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

If Raditz has already been damaged by Gohan then the answer is 100% yes. Without the Gohan damage, it might be more interesting...

He is not damage, this is Raditz after blocking Goku's Kamehameha and stomping him later.

@namiii said:

No, Raditz wins easily.

Elaborate please.

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#13 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku who was battered and bruised with broken ribs could hold Raditz, I don't see why Big 3 can't.

Actually, IIRC Gohan severely damaged Raditz at that time.

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#14 Posted by Cor_Tsar (4980 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither goku nor raditz have any physical feats that say trio can't hold him.

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#15 Edited by Namiii (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz is small planet level. He's stronger than someone who casually destroyed the moon with a ki blast.

Raditz is also relativistic as he dodged Piccolo's blasts which traveled from the Earth to the moon in a few seconds.

No way in hell can the trio beat him or even hold him, and I'm a huge OP fan.

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#16 Edited by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@namiii said:

Please, hit the reply button next time please.

Raditz is small planet level. He's stronger than someone who casually destroyed the moon with a ki blast.

Cool, but this is related to Raw DC, you will need to provide physical feats.

Raditz is also relativistic as he dodged Piccolo's blasts which traveled from the Earth to the moon in a few seconds.

Not that Bullsh't again, Raditz is not Relativistic.

He is not Relativistic, not even Sub Relativistic

  • No one ever dodged that specific Ki blast from Piccolo
  • There is absolutely no time frame confirming how much time it takes to Piccolo's Blast Reach Moon and using anime time frames only prove that considering that no Ki blast was that fast comparable to Piccolo beam.
  • Gohan and Krillin already moved themselves multiples times faster than their own Ki Blasts as well the Ki blasts from other Users like Reccome and yet still taking 1 hour even in full speed to travel to point A to point B in Namek
  • The speed of the Ki blasts showed inconsistencies through the entire series I don't see why this wouldn't be one
  • The other only Moon feat was Roshi's Kamehameha which no one ever dodged in Roshi's Buff Form Full Power, in RoF he proved to be strong enough to defeat multiple Frieza's soldiers that were giving trouble to Krillin
  • No Character was stated to surpass the Two Realms of Speed: Sound and Light until Dyspo, and if Toriyama really wanted to proved that they are Light speed he would have done this before
  • Even characters like 17 and 18 need sometime to reach Kame's house using their Travel speed
  • Z-Fighters multiple times failed to react against Solar Flare(i.e Light), even when they had Knowledge of the technique.

I will elaborate.....Again.

Krillin and Gohan managed to move themselves faster than Recoome's Eraser Gun(they didn't start moving before (They didn't start to move until Recoome fired his attack) and yet it still takes hours to move between Guru's house and Frieza's ship.

https://imgur.com/a/i47nl6x

https://imgur.com/a/lU6TdhM

https://imgur.com/a/SIzilfv

https://imgur.com/a/GmSAMKY

Also should be noted that during the fight against Guldo, Krillin and Gohan showed to be able to move at speeds almost equal to those of their Ki Blasts.

https://imgur.com/a/zRVpF39

Raditz Saga Piccolo strongest technique:'' Makankosappo''

https://imgur.com/a/bjKYP0b

https://imgur.com/a/rzLWjBE

The technique was able to hurt Raditz, the PL should was above 1307(Gohan's power level when hurt Raditz) according to Raditz the technique possess a PL of 1330

https://imgur.com/a/JvPdmVy

https://imgur.com/a/rMP8mrF

By power scaling and the fact that Piccolo use this technique to attack Raditz that means that:

SBC>Moon Buster Beam

Raditz was able to barely dodged the beam, and according to Piccolo if he charged again Raditz would do the same

https://imgur.com/a/0TGm1Ra

Piccolo at that time have a PL of 408 according to Raditz, that means that likely the SBC increase his strength in 4 times for be able to pierce Raditz

https://imgur.com/a/VTeYLiJ

Nappa and Vegeta Arc:

Piccolo and Krillin uses a 2 handed SBC and a Kamehameha to kill Nappa, which he clearly notices and manage to doged with easy, even though that he was hurt

https://imgur.com/a/mI1Q0yg

https://imgur.com/a/fe7k8pK

By the logic they should be FTL don't ? Yes, they should, but guess what ? They don't.

Goku with a PL of 8000 takes 28 hours to cross all the snake way which have 1.000.000 KM.

After Goku finsihes training with King Kai, he gets wished back to life and must make his way back to King Yemma across Snake Way (1 million Km) to meet Kami who can take him back to Earth

King Kai suggests Goku can make it in two days at his current speed, but he also says the Saiyans will arrive the next day.

Snake Way is 1,000,000km long, and when Goku left King Kai, it seems he expected Goku to go the distance in 2 days at his current speed. This tells us that at this point in time, Goku can shift at 20,833Kmph, or 12,945mph. This seems fair since King Kai has been training Goku, he should know how fast Goku is and how long it would take him.

https://imgur.com/a/wgU0lMa

As we know though, Goku didn't take 2 days. He arrived back to King Yemma the next day, 3 hours and 37 minutes after the Saiyans arrived.

https://imgur.com/a/x77KWOE

https://imgur.com/a/AAoF5aU

https://imgur.com/a/4Esb1Ky

https://imgur.com/a/ROLBibn

https://imgur.com/a/kHqKOh8

In the Kame House when Goku calls Master Roshi via King Kai, Bulma and Oolong are about to eat, or have just started eating:

https://imgur.com/a/ViXUHpY

A quick google search shows a number of sources stating that lunch times in Japan traditionally run from 11:30am to 1:30pm.

ASSUMPTION: If They started lunch at 11:30am and took a further 13 minutes from that point to calling the dragon and wishing Goku back to life, then Goku traversed Snake Way in 27 hours and 37 minutes. I personally dont find this a huge leap. Toriyama specifcally made King Kai mention the "next day" and he specifically mentions times of the day that add another 3 hours and 37 minutes onto the time of arrival of the Saiyans.

This is a speed of Mach 30, Combat speed by fans calculations in forums and other debates are 10 times faster than travel/movement/flying speed, but Goku clearly moves faster than Nappa's brain can process, even though that Nappa can easily avoid a 2HSBC and a Kamehameha from Krillin which was at that time stronger than Raditz, and he moves faster than Raditz reaction which was only able to barely dodged, but Nappa clearly moves before the beams even touch him.

https://imgur.com/a/C5pGGGh

https://imgur.com/a/jokwI9I

https://imgur.com/a/1SbiLH0

Should be noted, that King Kai stated that Goku would arrive in 2 days, and the fact that he arrives sooner proves that he was going fast as he could.

https://imgur.com/a/KRYGYQD

As you can see, so that means:

Goku Mach 30 flying speed > Nappa's reaction speed>2HSBC>or=Krillin Kamehameha>Raditz's reaction speed >Piccolo Raditz saga SBC>Moon buster beam

Note: The Guidebook also confirmed that the Snake Way have 1.000.000 KM

Serpent Road

Area: Afterlife

Special Characteristics: A road that links the northern Kaio Planet with Enma Daio’s castle. It’s called the Serpent Road because it is shaped like a serpent. Its total length is approximately 1 million kilometers. If you lose your footing on this road, you will fall into Hell and will be unable to return.

Frieza was able to casually moves faster than the Beams from Gohan, Krillin and Piccolo fused with Nail, actually his beams are fast enough that not even a person like Piccolo can see, he says that he only saw a little light, similar when someone fired a bullet and we are only able to see the light, Frieza also moved faster than they Eyesight, but Goku easily reacted against his beams and attacks, but yet, Frieza blitzed him multiple times while moving and attacking in their battle.

https://imgur.com/a/2aXUpym

https://imgur.com/a/8dknrRe

https://imgur.com/a/lZgiYy0

https://imgur.com/a/8sDQC9E

https://imgur.com/a/Znupctw

https://imgur.com/a/KoO274X

https://imgur.com/a/ISr9Mhb

https://imgur.com/a/lwQKmr3

https://imgur.com/a/ztyG3ZF

https://imgur.com/a/KSKxfu1

https://imgur.com/a/p0FmMAC

https://imgur.com/a/mckylMX

https://imgur.com/a/5ETzZA1

https://imgur.com/a/dIbA1U0

https://imgur.com/a/dhA3jpZ

https://imgur.com/a/m3sRPUp

Frieza movement/travel/flying speed >Goku's reaction> Frieza Nail beams>Namek Saga Z warriors reaction = Namek Saga Z Warriors ki blasts> Goku Mach 30 flying speed > Nappa's reaction speed>2HSBC>or=Krillin Kamehameha>Raditz's reaction speed >Piccolo Raditz saga SBC>Moon buster beam

Following the Moon buster beam logic, Frieza should be FTL right ? Yes, but guess what ? He is not. Why can I say that ?well let's use a example of a stronger character: Gotenks SSJ, which according to Piccolo is stronger than Goku and Vegeta(Buu saga):

https://imgur.com/a/t0jT70P

Gotenks according to himself circle the globe dozens of times let's say that he circle the earth36 times in 25 minutes and sleep for 4 minutes and some seconds(the fusion only last 30 minutes and Piccolo was above frieza that time, he should be able to reach Gotenks in a short amount of time, so I assume a quantifiable time frame)

  • Earth's Circumference: 40.075 KM
  • Fusion time limit: 30 Minutes, 1/2 Hour
  • He circled the globe: Dozens, likely 36 times
  • Time: 25 minutes, 1500 seconds
  • He cross 36 times 40075 KM, that means he cross at maximum: 1.442.700 KM in 1500 seconds
  • Speed=Distance/Time
  • Speed=1.442.700/1500
  • Speed=961,8 KM per second

As you can see, Gotenks which is stronger than Goku and Vegeta Buu saga, have a travel/movement/flying speed of 961,8 Km per second, Piccolo is obviously tired and sweating due the fact that he was after Gotenks even though that he is stronger than Frieza

Note: Is pretty obvious that Gotenks wasn't going all out, but the fact that someone stronger than Frieza took a considerable amount of time to reach him, time enough for Gotenks sleep, is pretty obviously that they weren't not Relativistic in Travel speed in Namek Saga, and should be noted that Gotenks in the Japenese translation never stated that he circled the globe Dozens of times, only several times.

Vegeta statement about Power levels

https://imgur.com/a/V404BjF

Si mi poder de pelea ha aumentado es logico que mi velocidad tambien aumenta

If my power level has increased it is logical that my speed also increases

Conclusion:

Gotenks SSJ Flying/Travel/movement speed>Buu Saga Piccolo Flying/Travel/Movement speed> Namek Frieza movement/travel/flying speed >Goku's reaction> Frieza Nail beams>Namek Saga Z warriors reaction = Namek Saga Z Warriors ki blasts> Goku Mach 30 flying speed > Nappa's reaction speed>2HSBC>or=Krillin Kamehameha>Raditz's reaction speed >Piccolo Raditz saga SBC>Moon buster beam

Note: I believe that the Buu tiers dudes are indeed Relativistic, but with so many consistent feats, the Moon feat speed shouldn't be taken at full value and as a absolute proof that the Z-Fighters at SS Saga were relativistic, consistent feats and statements shows that they are not.

And we have Vegeta's Final Flash with a speed of Mach 40.000-45.000 as well Cell Kamehameha which possess at least the same speed, Goku also react against the attack.

https://imgur.com/a/b6iMvl3

With this we can at least confirm that they reaction and combat are faster than their travel speed, this was kind of proved using Tao's feat.

And we have Yamcha's statement saying that Master Roshi's house is 10.000 KM from where they are, and Goku was trying to proves that he could teleport and everyone when see the distance believed in him, and based on Vegeta's reaction and face, is pretty obviously that he huge distance was enough to convince him, the same guy that was in par with First Form Frieza, which means that at that time they don't have a speed of not even 10.000 KM per second, actually, considering that Vegeta was training even after the Frieza saga when can say that one year and half later, he would undoubtedly be stronger than Frieza

https://imgur.com/a/r3JO0Vs

https://imgur.com/a/Tiq40bA

No way in hell can the trio beat him or even hold him, and I'm a huge OP fan.

You will need to elaborate this too. Is pretty obvious that he would one shot them with a Ki blast, but Raditz only used that 2 times IIRC in his fight against Piccolo and Goku in the manga, we don't have reasons to assume that he would try to use this in the Trio since he in the manga opt to a H2H combat.

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#17 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

Neither goku nor raditz have any physical feats that say trio can't hold him.

Elaborate this please. IIRC, Piccolo's strongest attack in the manga in the 23rd Budokai Tournament moved entire buildings and Ships, and Goku managed to withstand this, Raditz stomped both Piccolo, and Goku 5 years after that.

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#18 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

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#19 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

Why didn't he do that when Goku was holding him?

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#20 Edited by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk said:
@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

Why didn't he do that when Goku was holding him?

Not sure, likely because he was pretty tired or weak, I mean, he failed to kill Gohan who have at that time a PL of 1 with his punch, and he managed to damaged Krillin and Goku pretty easily with one attack, so Gohan severely damaged him.

Or he was just thinking:'' He can't hold me, I'm Raditz.''

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#21 Posted by Cor_Tsar (4980 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Physical Powerscaling is unquantifiable in DBZ. That's Piccolo's best physical feat at this point. He could've just focused on special beam cannon instead of physical properties after that. Who knows how his training went, but Luffy's busted a city with his fist and Zoro's a mountain buster. That's better than anything shown up to this point with physical strength alone in Dragon ball. They're energy projection has always been leagues better than their physicals ever since a Kamehameha was used as a technique for destruction that characters couldn't replicate on their own physically.

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#22 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:

@joviolma: Physical Powerscaling is unquantifiable in DBZ. That's Piccolo's best physical feat at this point. He could've just focused on special beam cannon instead of physical properties after that. Who knows how his training went, but Luffy's busted a city with his fist and Zoro's a mountain buster. That's better than anything shown up to this point with physical strength alone in Dragon ball. They're energy projection has always been leagues better than their physicals ever since a Kamehameha was used as a technique for destruction that characters couldn't replicate on their own physically.

Well. I can't deny, good points, but can you post some scans ? Like luffy busting a city at least ?

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#23 Posted by Cor_Tsar (4980 posts) - - Show Bio
Loading Video...
Loading Video...

There ya go.

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#24 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar said:
Loading Video...
Loading Video...

There ya go.

Thank you :)

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#25 Posted by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Jesus man, you always type long messages lol, how long do they take anyway

Respect.

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#26 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma: Jesus man, you always type long messages lol, how long do they take anyway

Respect.

Thank you
Thank you

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#27 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:
@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

Why didn't he do that when Goku was holding him?

Not sure, likely because he was pretty tired or weak, I mean, he failed to kill Gohan who have at that time a PL of 1 with his punch, and he managed to damaged Krillin and Goku pretty easily with one attack, so Gohan severely damaged him.

Or he was just thinking:'' He can't hold me, I'm Raditz.''

Raditz never showed any technique like this, so I'm inclined to believe that his inferior ki knowledge and control prevents him from doing this tactic.

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#28 Posted by SuperGoku17 (7220 posts) - - Show Bio

No raditz kills them worse than that farmer.

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#29 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:
@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

Why didn't he do that when Goku was holding him?

Not sure, likely because he was pretty tired or weak, I mean, he failed to kill Gohan who have at that time a PL of 1 with his punch, and he managed to damaged Krillin and Goku pretty easily with one attack, so Gohan severely damaged him.

Or he was just thinking:'' He can't hold me, I'm Raditz.''

Raditz never showed any technique like this, so I'm inclined to believe that his inferior ki knowledge and control prevents him from doing this tactic.

Fair enough :), So you still thinking that the Trio can hold him ?

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#30 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:
@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:
@joviolma said:
@the_hajduk said:

And Luffy can literally wrap himself around Raditz a dozen times giving him exponential leverage.

This wouldn't be useful in my opinion, Raditz can simple powered up and severely damage Luffy.

Why didn't he do that when Goku was holding him?

Not sure, likely because he was pretty tired or weak, I mean, he failed to kill Gohan who have at that time a PL of 1 with his punch, and he managed to damaged Krillin and Goku pretty easily with one attack, so Gohan severely damaged him.

Or he was just thinking:'' He can't hold me, I'm Raditz.''

Raditz never showed any technique like this, so I'm inclined to believe that his inferior ki knowledge and control prevents him from doing this tactic.

Fair enough :), So you still thinking that the Trio can hold him ?

Definitely. Dragon Ball martial artists are normally overpowered, but their physical strength is one area that tends to be conservative. I would go as far as Luffy can do this alone (as well as Goku did at least)

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#31 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1556 posts) - - Show Bio

No raditz kills them worse than that farmer.

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#32 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#33 Posted by Chronicplane (8817 posts) - - Show Bio

The trio should have the endurance and versatility to keep him busy though If he hits them with a charged ki blast they would die, Knowing the saiyans overconfidence he'd likely toy with them rather than end the fight quickly.

If Raditz takes them seriously then they would most likely die thanks to his AoE.

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#34 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16899 posts) - - Show Bio

They could hold him off in h2h combat but if Raditz hits them with one ki blast they will die.

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#35 Posted by LoveEveryone (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto beats Raditz by himself

Bump

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#36 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

They could hold him off in h2h combat but if Raditz hits them with one ki blast they will die.

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#37 Posted by deactivated-5bdcbb8da1d15 (5093 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto beats Raditz by himself

Bump

You do realize the Monster Trio are from One Piece, right?

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#38 Posted by LoveEveryone (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

@gearsecond659: Aw crap I thought this was Naruto, Luffy, and Ichigo LOL my mistake people should be more specific when they say “Big 3”

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#39 Posted by FaradaySloth (8437 posts) - - Show Bio

Raditz wins.

Online
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#40 Posted by Gaoron (8159 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy can KO him on his own if he tags him with KKG but Raditz can one shot with casual blasts aswell. Could go either way, I heard Luffy recently got an OP precog tho so I may favor team here.

Online
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#41 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5544 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#42 Posted by SkySanji (4582 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's Raditz is nice and only goes for h2h then yes but if he's having a bad day and goes for a ki blast it's wraps for the trio