@yasindermann: I seriously doubt he won that thread. CA supes has the adaptability to any threat, he'd adapt to the point where GER's negation can't affect him anymore. Also, CA supes is freaking huge, even if he can't overcome GER(which he should)GER won't be able to kill him.
@yasindermann: I seriously doubt he won that thread. CA supes has the adaptability to any threat, he'd adapt to the point where GER's negation can't affect him anymore. Also, CA supes is freaking huge, even if he can't overcome GER(which he should)GER won't be able to kill him.
Yeah and All Fiction undoes that state on Kumagawa
That's not even how his ability works, especially when he doesn't have the will to do anything relating to the fight due to how Gold Experience Requiem functions.
All Fiction denies parts of reality and via that he can straight up remove cause and effect. First scan explains what All Fiction can do, second shows that All Fiction interacts with the law of casuality itself. Ajimu is saying that something doesn't happen but rather it NEVER happened and the last scan shows that he can make past events become nothing.
I'd say the match is inconclusive, in my eyes its an infinite loop between GER setting Kumagawa to 0 and then All Fiction removing that relationship and making it so nothing happened, then GER sets him back to 0 and vice versa. They can both oneshot each other. I believe All Fiction is the superior power though.
@caocao: JJBA stomps bleach? Name one character that can beat soul king Yhwach. Almighty can negate GER's negation, then Yhwach can either absorb or kill Giorno.
@caocao: Name one character that can beat soul king Yhwach
Giorno Giovanna.
Almighty can negate GER's negation
How? Yhwach never negate something like that. The only thing that Almighty can at this point is to shown Yhwach several ways how he will die in infinite loops of death. GER is the perfect answer for Almighty.
@caocao: Learn how the almighty works it gets negated period. Also, Yhwach has absorbed the powers of all the quincy's including gremmy who's a freaking reality bender. GER gets stomped period.
@caocao: Learn how the almighty works it gets negated period. Also, Yhwach has absorbed the powers of all the quincy's including gremmy who's a freaking reality bender. GER gets stomped period.
Don´t see the issue GER will negate Almighty, it erases even time reversing. (Unless Yhwach can use Almighty instant.)
@caocao:Yhwach can use almighty instant since he has a level of omniscience. He can predict the future, can and anticipate GER's negation. GER's aware of what occurs in erased time, but he can't predict the future, as yhwach can. Also, that arrow that Yhwach lost against was an arrow that negates all quincy abilities, which is why Yhwach couldn't stop it. And you're the last one to talk about "damn arrows" since you believe that GE can beat yhwach after being stabbed by one. Also that reminds me, Uryu can beat GER as well, If GER negates his action A the Antithesis reverses that as well.
dude I'm aware about what is stated about the ability. However the statement isn't supported by showings.
Despite claiming that you can reject any aspects reality it's only been used to remove the effect of an action and not the action itself.
Yeah you can chalk this up as him being so frightened that he forgot he had the all fiction but. And yes he later revive himself from the poison.
But With gold experience Requiem the dude wouldn't even get this far. The moment the guy even attempted an act it would be negated before it ever happened.
Based on what actually been demonstrated gold experiences requiem is Stronger ability.
@bossmountain: He removed the effect of Zenkichi's kick later on though, and he revived himself from that poison anyway. All that can be gathered there is that Kumagawa is scared of snakes.
@lsoon23: that and it doesn't work that similarly to Gold experience requiem. The ability to kick in instantly without Giorno even needing to being aware.
anyone fast enough to blitz him with a knife would win
Gold Experience Requiem works instantly outside of time, so blitzing isn't an option that would do anything. In addition to that, their will would be set back to zero before they could act on their desire to harm Giorno.
proof? Ger can't revert an action back to zero after it's already over so if anyone with stats above building level and probably around mach 20 can just kill either Ger or Giorno before it can activate its ability.
@caocao:Yhwach can use almighty instant since he has a level of omniscience.
What is the point?. He failed on the "instant and omniscience-part, since he couldn´t even change the situation with the arrow. Someone who can use instantly almighty shouldn´t be in trouble.
He can predict the future, can and anticipate GER's negation.
On the same point, GER can negate almighty. Did Yhwach even negate a abilitie that negates other abilities? (Even timemanipulation?)
GER's aware of what occurs in erased time, but he can't predict the future, as yhwach can.
I didn´t say GER can predict the future. Why it should? It wasn´t even anticipate to kill Yhwach.
Also, that arrow that Yhwach lost against was an arrow that negates all quincy abilities, which is why Yhwach couldn't stop it.
The arrow negates all quincy abilities, correct. It negates all his abilities at the moment, when Yhwach was hit by the arrow.
So why he was hit by the arrow, if he can use almighty instantly?
Why can the arrow negate all quincy abilities, but not GER?
I know that was shit writing, but it still happends. I also dislike the GER wank (See the GER vs CAS topic), but i have to be fair. Bleach has some good qualities, but i didn´t see how Yhwach can negate GER, or his future choices can help him, if every scenario what he see in the situation, when he was hit bei GER only showns infinity possible death scenaries.
As i said, GER is the perfect counter against Almighty. The only point, where i probably could agree is, where makes the first step to use his abilitie. Because both failed via statements with "instantly or infinite". We shouldn´t take the NLF route at this point.
Also:
And you're the last one to talk about "damn arrows" since you believe that GE can beat yhwach after being stabbed by one.
Different situation: What happend when GE was stabbed by the arrow:
What is the point?. He failed on the "instant and omniscience-part, since he couldn´t even change the situation with the arrow. Someone who can use instantly almighty shouldn´t be in trouble.
https://imgur.com/a/mXOWH It's all explained in the link you posted. Haschwalth states that Uryu is the only quincy able to counter almighty due to his nature of his scrift. When Uryu prepared to fire the arrow, yhwach could've made it so that Uryu died of a heart attack before being able to fire it, or he could've made it so that he missed the shot, but Antithesis would've responded, rendering almighty useless.
On the same point, GER can negate almighty. Did Yhwach even negate a abilitie that negates other abilities? (Even timemanipulation?)
sort of, yes. When Yhwach fights ichibe, a member of the 0 division, Ichibe completely strips him of his power and reduces his existence to that of a black ant, he goes from a quincy able to be a threat to yamamoto, to an insignificant creature, that even a human can beat. But almighty responds to this, and negates it completely, allowing him to be restored to full power. Because of this feat, it suggests that almighty can negate GER's abilities as well. If he can undo the effects of his power getting stripped away, what's to say he can't undo the effects of his actions getting reduced to 0?
I didn´t say GER can predict the future. Why it should? It wasn´t even anticipate to kill Yhwach.
GER not being able to predict the future means that he won't be aware of almighty, whereas Yhwach can look into all possible timelines, and anticipate GER's ability before the 2 characters even meet. Him being aware of what GER's capable of furthers the point of him being able to stop GER.
The arrow negates all quincy abilities, correct. It negates all his abilities at the moment, when Yhwach was hit by the arrow.
yes, this is true.
So why he was hit by the arrow, if he can use almighty instantly?
Uryu would've prevented him from doing so.
Why can the arrow negate all quincy abilities, but not GER?
you have to understand that it's not the arrow, but rather the person who fired it. If any other character fired that arrow Yhwach would've said "lol nope" and a timeline where it fails(person dies, misses, etc...) would've been brought into reality.
I know that was shit writing, but it still happends. I also dislike the GER wank (See the GER vs CAS topic), but i have to be fair. Bleach has some good qualities, but i didn´t see how Yhwach can negate GER, or his future choices can help him, if every scenario what he see in the situation, when he was hit bei GER only showns infinity possible death scenaries.
The only time where all timelines fail imo is if the opponent has absolute omnipotence(meaning they can do anything, and that includes beating yhwach, GER etc...). GER isn't omnipotent, he's nigh omnipotent(close to that level, but still stoppable). This is backed up by the fact that he lost against the world over heaven, he also failed to stop Stairway to heaven from resetting the universe.
As i said, GER is the perfect counter against Almighty. The only point, where i probably could agree is, where makes the first step to use his abilitie. Because both failed via statements with "instantly or infinite". We shouldn´t take the NLF route at this point.
I'm just saying Yhwach is more likely to respond to GER's negate due to Almighty allowing him to anticipate it before it even happens.
Also:
Different situation: What happend when GE was stabbed by the arrow:
If he use it BEFORE GER can even react, then probably it should work.
We know that Uryu can beat almighty based off of Haschwalth's statement, and Yhwach being unable to stop the arrow. If Uryu can counter almighty, what's stopping him from countering GER's effect?
https://imgur.com/a/mXOWH It's all explained in the link you posted. Haschwalth states that Uryu is the only quincy able to counter almighty due to his nature of his scrift. When Uryu prepared to fire the arrow, yhwach could've made it so that Uryu died of a heart attack before being able to fire it, or he could've made it so that he missed the shot, but Antithesis would've responded, rendering almighty useless.
But, why could work Antithesis against Almighty? Because, it is plot or did i misunderstood something?
From your point, it sounds like a nability that negates, and that´s what GER can do, too.
Or couldn´t GER work, because it is Almighty?
sort of, yes. When Yhwach fights ichibe, a member of the 0 division, Ichibe completely strips him of his power and reduces his existence to that of a black ant, he goes from a quincy able to be a threat to yamamoto, to an insignificant creature, that even a human can beat. But almighty responds to this, and negates it completely, allowing him to be restored to full power. Because of this feat, it suggests that almighty can negate GER's abilities as well. If he can undo the effects of his power getting stripped away, what's to say he can't undo the effects of his actions getting reduced to 0?
Hmm... ok, thanks. I´ll reread this part, i´ll understand it better, if i see what happend.
you have to understand that it's not the arrow, but rather the person who fired it. If any other character fired that arrow Yhwach would've said "lol nope" and a timeline where it fails(person dies, misses, etc...) would've been brought into reality.
Ok, that is the point which i don´t understand. What makes Uryu his "negate" different from the ones like Ichibe?
The only time where all timelines fail imo is if the opponent has absolute omnipotence(meaning they can do anything, and that includes beating yhwach, GER etc...). GER isn't omnipotent, he's nigh omnipotent(close to that level, but still stoppable). This is backed up by the fact that he lost against the world over heaven, he also failed to stop Stairway to heaven from resetting the universe.
Well, i personally don´t believe on absolute omnipotence in fiction, since there is a word which failed in many stories. Nigh omnipotence imo is someone who exist outside of all dimensional and conceptual rules. He isn´t bound by anything, but neither GER, nor almighty is on that level. They are just two very powerfull hax within a dimensional ranking.
I'm just saying Yhwach is more likely to respond to GER's negate due to Almighty allowing him to anticipate it before it even happens.
Ok, Yhwach will see what happend, before GER effects him. But, that´s why i am asked for the abilitie negate arrow. I understand that the arrow negates Yhwach´s abilities, but why couldn´t Yhwach react before the arrow hit him? How can Uryu influence Yhwach before, if almighty should protect him via foreseight in infinite alternate ways, to escape the situation? What happend at this point?
We know that Uryu can beat almighty based off of Haschwalth's statement, and Yhwach being unable to stop the arrow. If Uryu can counter almighty, what's stopping him from countering GER's effect?
Ah, ok my bad. I misunderstood the process. If he negate Yhwach his abilities, sure he should negate GER too. Here is more the question, which works faster.
@caocao: JJBA stomps bleach? Name one character that can beat soul king Yhwach. Almighty can negate GER's negation, then Yhwach can either absorb or kill Giorno.
Had to enter desktop mode to stop this wank real quick,
made in heaven accelerates time and resets the universe erasing yhwach.
jail house rock makes yhwach a vegetable.
D4C kills him.
GER negates anything he does (though I don’t think GER can damage him to win so a stalemate) (universal)
King Crimson stalemates him (Same reason as GER)
and that’s just off the top of my head. Oh I remembered; heavy weather turns him into a snail... literally.
white snake could also possibly turn him brain dead. But that needs prep and the right situations.
Ok, that is the point which i don´t understand. What makes Uryu his "negate" different from the ones like Ichibe?
Kubo isn't able to explain it in depth since he was rushed while he made the ending, but how I see it it's because antithesis is acting directly in response to Almighty's effect. Whereas in Ichibe's case, almighty acted directly in response to his ability(the ability that allowed him to strip Yhwach of his power), and Ichibe had nothing in response of almighty to stop it from occurring.
Well, i personally don´t believe on absolute omnipotence in fiction, since there is a word which failed in many stories. Nigh omnipotence imo is someone who exist outside of all dimensional and conceptual rules. He isn´t bound by anything, but neither GER, nor almighty is on that level. They are just two very powerfull hax within a dimensional ranking.
Fair enough.
Ok, Yhwach will see what happend, before GER effects him. But, that´s why i am asked for the abilitie negate arrow. I understand that the arrow negates Yhwach´s abilities, but why couldn´t Yhwach react before the arrow hit him? How can Uryu influence Yhwach before, if almighty should protect him via foreseight in infinite alternate ways, to escape the situation? What happend at this point?
Kubo wasn't able to explain due to the rushed ending, but there have been many theories. One of the most popular theories is that Yhwach wasn't able to foresee the arrow is because of Aizen screwing with him earlier before Uryu's arrival. Aizen's shikai possibly made him doubt his predictions, which makes sense considering who Aizen is, and how that falls under his Shikai's abilities. Look at it from Yhwach's perspective. You see a timeline where Uryu fires an arrow that negates your abilities, and Ichigo kills you during this opening. Normally you'd do everything you can to prevent this from happening, but how can you be sure the reality is even real, considering how Aizen's been fooling you with an ability you weren't even sure was in effect? Let's not forget that he was practically a god at this point, which likely created more doubt.
Ah, ok my bad. I misunderstood the process. If he negate Yhwach his abilities, sure he should negate GER too. Here is more the question, which works faster.
Yeah, in the end, it comes down to this, I'd back Uryu up however considering how Antithesis has more feats and statements. It protected him from Auswählen, and Almighty. Whereas GER hasn't dealt with abilities near that level.
in all Honesty GER can be beaten by omnipotent beings like TOAA, Presence, PR Beyonder, Kami Tenchi, Azathot,the Creator and the likes. These beings can also be considered to possess only highest level nigh omnipotence which is the closest things to true omnipotence, if we are to look at them from our real world logical view which suggests that no fictional character is truly omnipotent as it is impossible to prove omnipotence in fiction like TOAA being unable to fix the multiverse after thanos took a universal regulator, yet he is still generally deemed as omnipotent. Hence these beings are banned in most forums including CV
So then. OT These are the beings which I, with all honesty suggest can beat GER by just merely showing themselves to GER.
so i understand that GER is practically invincible and all, but shouldn't a character that controls reality be able to defeat Gio? Return to Zero (if i understand correctly) essentially takes an occurrence that would harm or kill him and reverts it to the point before it occurs, and then also blocks that from happening again. furthermore, the death loop that diavolo is put into is a different more aggressive application where GER kills him, reverts the situation back to "zero" and then kills him again, and infinite repeat. meaning that GER doesn't actually have to block a reality from occurring. so that would mean that a reality warper/ eraser should be able to defeat GER if you erase reality in a specific fashion. i'm fairly certain that the only way to beat GER is instantaneously, and it would need to be something that doesn't actually kill him, otherwise return to zero will take place. so i believe if a reality bender could erase everything that will occur (all reality that will ever occur) not including the point that they exist in at that time, because that would be an occurrence that endangers Gio, then when they reach the end of reality, everything will cease to exist. that should work, since even if he reverts to zero, there is no possibilities to change to. This in turn would either A) prove a limit previously unknown, and when that happens all of reality will cease to exist or B) be an infinite loop of everything. also for good measure i'd erase any past events that did and couldve occured preventing from going back to a zero before erasing the future, if thats even possible. but i mean this only really gives a stalemate. not exactly an answer but more a guideline to a possible way to beat GER
Literally every metaphysical character beyond scientistic definition beyond space-time like Beyonder, since they are not affected by causality and time attacks.
Every high end multiversal character in marvel (Living Tribunal, multi-eternity, etc). and every high end multiversal DC being.
This. We have no idea what its limits are. He used it to beat someone who was basically street level with some hax, for all we know he can't undo attacks that are fare beyond his own power.
Like if Frieza supernovad the Earth would GER just be able to undo that? We have no idea, and that seems like a big assumption to me.
If not Frieza, characters like Beerus and Whis should be able to beat him. Yhwach could possibly win, it would depend if almighty takes precedent over GER's ability, but Yhwach can alter reality and is implied to be planetary, and can attack someone through the future which GER never countered before, so I would probably side with him. Immortal characters like Aizen, Madara, Kaguya, Zamasu, ect. might not be able to be put in a death loop since they can't die, and if Giorno can't send them into a loop eventually he will run out of stamina or get tagged.
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