Can any non-omnipotent character beat SCP-3812 in 10/10 times?

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DracoCRA

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Title says it all, everything up to nigh-omnipotents are allowed.

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deactivated-60a965c6d6754

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Battler

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Solar_Mars

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#3  Edited By Solar_Mars

Userthatisme Lucifer solos fiction

3812 stomps Alovenus, LT, and Featherine AFAIK

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Solar_Mars

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#4  Edited By Solar_Mars

Gumball

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Fantastic4tress

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2008 Hulk can win, the guy was able to deal with cars and used a car door as a shield once.

Naruto with the added powers of SCP-3812 can probably take this too.

Saitama would one punch it, but if you include him as omnipotent that I understand, but wanted to list him just to make a trio here lol

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deactivated-60c0f858b7326

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Gumball is fodder lol.

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Supersonik

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King Engine GG

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Solar_Mars

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#8  Edited By Solar_Mars
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RENEGADISM

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Depends on whether or not you acknowledge his author statements and related works as canon, or just his singular article.

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chasekilleen

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Solar_Mars

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Darwin solos SCP verse

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JOSHN05

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DCEU Doomsday adapts and one-shots the verse.

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Rayuzaku

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I can milk him

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DOGFIGHTER90

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#15  Edited By DOGFIGHTER90

@el_mago said:

any high top tier for dc and marvel can

debating SCP is like debating suggsverse

Why do I always see you try to belittle any verse that isn't American comics? I always see you try to protect CAS wank and shit on any verse that isn't your petverse. What's up with that?

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LightningBamboo

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none.

The guy already trascended a database that represents a ‘bunch’ of writers.

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Gokuisthebest

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MJ CAS

Nuff said

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d1vine_

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none.

The guy already trascended a database that represents a ‘bunch’ of writers.

you say none but he arguably isn't top 5 within his own verse

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RENEGADISM

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@d1vine_: You're the second person to say this, so do you actually know who's stronger than him or are you just repeating something someone else told you?

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d1vine_

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@d1vine_: You're the second person to say this, so do you actually know who's stronger than him or are you just repeating something someone else told you?

my lurking knowledge tells me that sefiros/qlippoth, are stronger than 3812.

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RENEGADISM

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@d1vine_: Quick search tells me that checks out. Thank you, I appreciate the answer

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LightningBamboo

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@d1vine_ said:
@lightningbamboo said:

none.

The guy already trascended a database that represents a ‘bunch’ of writers.

you say none but he arguably isn't top 5 within his own verse

LMAO

he already trascended Swann's Proposal, who is literally a database that represents a bunch of writers, keep downplaying.

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d1vine_

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@d1vine_ said:
@lightningbamboo said:

none.

The guy already trascended a database that represents a ‘bunch’ of writers.

you say none but he arguably isn't top 5 within his own verse

LMAO

he already trascended Swann's Proposal, who is literally a database that represents a bunch of writers, keep downplaying.

aren't you the same person who called it an outlier? anyways, if you're making it a metafiction argument, it's useless.

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lmaolmaolmao

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What's so fun about making the exact same thread again and again?

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deactivated-6108c6c162ecc

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Userthatisme Lucifer solos fiction

3812 stomps Alovenus, LT, and Featherine AFAIK

im glad you see me as lucifer solo fiction man. Featherine and Alovenus and LT, no.

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deactivated-6108c6c162ecc

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none.

The guy already trascended a database that represents a ‘bunch’ of writers.

more wank. 3812 was a failed trash experiment. theres already scps beyond 3812

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deactivated-6108c6c162ecc

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What's so fun about making the exact same thread again and again?

newer responses. more toxicity. etc.

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Divyansh13

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Creator from umineko,stalemates overvoid. Any type IV multiverse characters. Ergen characters (maybe). Although yeah, gag characters defeat him. A bunch of scp characters are above him too.

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Dragonmaster26

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Izayoi sakamaki punches their universe away

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lmaolmaolmao

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Creator from umineko,stalemates overvoid. Any type IV multiverse characters. Ergen characters (maybe). Although yeah, gag characters defeat him. A bunch of scp characters are above him too.

Slight correction, overvoid dies as a side effect

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Divyansh13

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lmaolmaolmao

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#34  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@divyansh13 said:

@lmaolmaolmao: can 3812 transcend overvoid?

Yes, it's literally the type of structures his power is meant to work against

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Divyansh13

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bdelloidgrain2

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It depends entirely on your interpretation of what the author has said, how long it takes him to "transcend realities" (the author says its instant, but the source material states that it is not instant and that it take time). Regardless, since SCP-3812 was once a normal human, time travel shenanigans could probably work. Characters that have narrative manipulations would also be strong enough to contest with him.

He's strong, but saying he solos DC, Umineko, Lovecraft and other verses is just wrong IMO.

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lmaolmaolmao

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#38  Edited By lmaolmaolmao

@bdelloidgrain2 said:

It depends entirely on your interpretation of what the author has said, how long it takes him to "transcend realities" (the author says its instant, but the source material states that it is not instant and that it take time). Regardless, since SCP-3812 was once a normal human, time travel shenanigans could probably work. Characters that have narrative manipulations would also be strong enough to contest with him.

He's strong, but saying he solos DC, Umineko, Lovecraft and other verses is just wrong IMO.

The source material doesn't say it's not instant. We even have feats to back it up, as his author was unable to stop him Despite being above the time of the lower narrative, and time travel won't work because once he supercedes he is above the time of the lower narrative. And it's quite an unfair assumption to say that 3812 won't start the fight equal to other narrative manipulators

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gelato_exotic

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Yhwach

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bdelloidgrain2

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@bdelloidgrain2 said:

It depends entirely on your interpretation of what the author has said, how long it takes him to "transcend realities" (the author says its instant, but the source material states that it is not instant and that it take time). Regardless, since SCP-3812 was once a normal human, time travel shenanigans could probably work. Characters that have narrative manipulations would also be strong enough to contest with him.

He's strong, but saying he solos DC, Umineko, Lovecraft and other verses is just wrong IMO.

The source material doesn't say it's not instant. We even have feats to back it up, as his author was unable to stop him Despite being above the time of the lower narrative, and time travel won't work because once he supercedes he is above the time of the lower narrative. And it's quite an unfair assumption to say that 3812 won't start the fight equal to other narrative manipulators

Source material implies that it is a gradual progression, not an instantaneous. Author claims directly contradict the source material. Secondly, his "author" being unable to stop him is just, quite frankly, bullshit. This idea that "he's so strong the author couldn't even stop him" is just straight up ridiculous.

Characters start a fight at equal narrative depths, but they don't progress at the same levels. Other characters progress instantly, whereas some characters are slower to progress.

Here are some examples of him taking time:

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Overall, he doesn't transcend instantly, which means, hypothetically, he will never reach infinity, or he will never fully surpass the infinity layered "tower" of narratives.

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lmaolmaolmao

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Source material implies that it is a gradual progression, not an instantaneous. Author claims directly contradict the source material. Secondly, his "author" being unable to stop him is just, quite frankly, bullshit. This idea that "he's so strong the author couldn't even stop him" is just straight up ridiculous.

Of course, we are talking about the author in the story, not the actual author.

Characters start a fight at equal narrative depths, but they don't progress at the same levels. Other characters progress instantly, whereas some characters are slower to progress.

Uhh, how many narrative manipulators actually transcend narratives? Almost all of them including Featherine are static at one narrative level.

Here are some examples of him taking time:

Not really an Anti Feat as infinities can get so big that instant transcendence won't take you to the top

And you have to realise that this "taking time" simply cannot be true as each narrative has its own time, hence we have no objective time reference for this transcendence other than 3812's own subjective time, which has nothing to do with the outcome on an objective reference.

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Overall, he doesn't transcend instantly, which means, hypothetically, he will never reach infinity, or he will never fully surpass the infinity layered "tower" of narratives.

I am not sure what you mean, even if his transcendence isn't instant(which makes no sense given his author in the story couldn't stop him, but let's assume anyway) for fairness he will start equal to other narrative manipulators, and hence will eventually surpass them

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bdelloidgrain2

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@bdelloidgrain2 said:

Source material implies that it is a gradual progression, not an instantaneous. Author claims directly contradict the source material. Secondly, his "author" being unable to stop him is just, quite frankly, bullshit. This idea that "he's so strong the author couldn't even stop him" is just straight up ridiculous.

Of course, we are talking about the author in the story, not the actual author.

Characters start a fight at equal narrative depths, but they don't progress at the same levels. Other characters progress instantly, whereas some characters are slower to progress.

Uhh, how many narrative manipulators actually transcend narratives? Almost all of them including Featherine are static at one narrative level.

Here are some examples of him taking time:

Not really an Anti Feat as infinities can get so big that instant transcendence won't take you to the top

And you have to realise that this "taking time" simply cannot be true as each narrative has its own time, hence we have no objective time reference for this transcendence other than 3812's own subjective time, which has nothing to do with the outcome on an objective reference.

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Overall, he doesn't transcend instantly, which means, hypothetically, he will never reach infinity, or he will never fully surpass the infinity layered "tower" of narratives.

I am not sure what you mean, even if his transcendence isn't instant(which makes no sense given his author in the story couldn't stop him, but let's assume anyway) for fairness he will start equal to other narrative manipulators, and hence will eventually surpass them

Defeating the author in a story is a feat that other characters have replicated. Like WF Mxy destroying DC comics and entering the "real world." Would you not consider that transcending a narrative? How about a character like the Leviathan (from the Unwritten). Even Dream has "absolute control" over the idea of narratives - every time SCP-3812 would transcend a narrative, he would be creating a new narrative, and ironically transcending Dream as well.

SCP-3812 is really strong, but he isn't as unbeatable as people make him out to be. SCP-3812 needs, essentially speaking prep time, in order to grow and continue to expand it's infinite narrative.

Thopples from Spacebattles made a comment that is quite accurate. I'm going to drop it here.

Thopples (Who can beat SCP-3812, December 12 2020, pg. 1, Spacebattles):

The problem with the "in fiction" logic is that it's like saying, Donald Trump is stronger than TOAA because TOAA is fictional.

SCP-3812 doesn't have feats, what he has are tautological claims that repeat what a lot of multiversal characters already do. It basically surmounts to:

"I am powerful because everything else doesn't exist, and if something exists I will make it automatically not exist".

Once you break SCP-3812 down, you will realize his "transcension" is just turning universes into being non-existent and replacing it with a new universe, and then make that non-existent, but in the reverse process and explained in the reverse, you realize that his feats aren't exactly unachievable for a lot of Conceptual, Multiversal Reality warpers. Because characters that can turn something that exists into fiction, and thus "transcending it" is a dime a dozen.

The only difference is that 3812 repeats the process aimlessly.

If I am a Multiversal Reality Warper (which is a dime a dozen) I can reduce the Multiverse into being a fictional book, and arbitrarily rewrite how many dimensions it has to any I want. Even one that increases endlessly but it won't reach me.

Because once you transcend a Multiverse like it was imaginary, you can rewrite its size to any you want because it's fictional, the same way your average joe human author in real life can rewrite his story to have many dimensions he wants, just as DJKaktus did to SCP-3812 so these "Thoughts = Reality" characters aren't really easily quantifiable.

The power gap between a character that exists in relation to one that doesn't exist to its perspective, is not mappable by any mathematics or number.

They're all virtually the same and it's thereby meaningless.

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lmaolmaolmao

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Defeating the author in a story is a feat that other characters have replicated. Like WF Mxy destroying DC comics and entering the "real world." Would you not consider that transcending a narrative? How about a character like the Leviathan (from the Unwritten). Even Dream has "absolute control" over the idea of narratives - every time SCP-3812 would transcend a narrative, he would be creating a new narrative, and ironically transcending Dream as well.

Thats why context matters. Beings from higher narrative in SCP have some well defined powersets that contextless authors won't have: for example:

-The ability to manipulate the cosmology of the lower narratives on a fundamental level.

-Ability to decide the laws and concepts of the lower realities on a fundamental level.

-Being above the time of the lower narratives, having the ability to see the full story from start to finish and change its course whenever and however they like etc

SCP-3812 is really strong, but he isn't as unbeatable as people make him out to be. SCP-3812 needs, essentially speaking prep time, in order to grow and continue to expand it's infinite narrative.

Thats false, his ability is passive and instant by statements from the author, as well logically demonstrated by feats. If his transcendence took time then his author from the higher narrative(Having the ability to see the full story from start to finish) should have been able to cancel his prep time and defeat him. This clearly isn't what happened. And SCP 3812 had already gained control of enough narrative layers in his story to be massively above almost all cosmologies by default.

Thopples from Spacebattles made a comment that is quite accurate. I'm going to drop it here.

Thopples (Who can beat SCP-3812, December 12 2020, pg. 1, Spacebattles):

Oh boy, seeing you are "quoting" this guy I am already inclined to just ignore you, but I will still respond.

The problem with the "in fiction" logic is that it's like saying, Donald Trump is stronger than TOAA because TOAA is fictional.

No one is saying that, that is trash logic and trying to exaggerate the actual arguments to make them look bad. When someone says "Author" or "Narrative" we are obviously talking about layers of ontological reality that exist in the SCP cosmology.

SCP-3812 doesn't have feats, what he has are tautological claims that repeat what a lot of multiversal characters already do. It basically surmounts to:

"I am powerful because everything else doesn't exist, and if something exists I will make it automatically not exist".

Thats exorbitantly dumb. It's not what happens here at all. Obviously all these lower narratives still "exist" as ontologically inferior layers of existence, and 3812 is clearly rising through well defined Ontological layers of existence.

Once you break SCP-3812 down, you will realize his "transcension" is just turning universes into being non-existent and replacing it with a new universe, and then make that non-existent, but in the reverse process and explained in the reverse, you realize that his feats aren't exactly unachievable for a lot of Conceptual, Multiversal Reality warpers. Because characters that can turn something that exists into fiction, and thus "transcending it" is a dime a dozen.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. All of it is false. You don't even need caveman tier IQ to know this is bullshit. What non existence? What replacement? Is it so hard to comprehend that each reality is ontologically superior to the last? This is like arguing "Infinite characters cant exist because infinite characters are just finite characters that turned finite things into non existent"

The only difference is that 3812 repeats the process aimlessly.

If I am a Multiversal Reality Warper (which is a dime a dozen) I can reduce the Multiverse into being a fictional book, and arbitrarily rewrite how many dimensions it has to any I want. Even one that increases endlessly but it won't reach me.

1) You can't do that without feats, otherwise we will reach the NLF territory where these "Muh because they see it as thoughts" can also create omnipotent beings because we can think up an unformalised conception of Omnipotence. And having narrative Manipulation does not grant you the ability to exceed your own narrative/Ontology.

Because once you transcend a Multiverse like it was imaginary, you can rewrite its size to any you want because it's fictional, the same way your average joe human author in real life can rewrite his story to have many dimensions he wants, just as DJKaktus did to SCP-3812 so these "Thoughts = Reality" characters aren't really easily quantifiable.

Once again, that's an exorbitant NLF, and you might as well say they can imagine Omnipotent characters into existence. There is also a very clear difference between "Oh I am so much stronger than this multiverse I can manipulate it as if it's my thoughts" and "I exist on an ontologically superior layer where thoughts, Ideas, dreams and fiction form Ontologically inferior realities".

The power gap between a character that exists in relation to one that doesn't exist to its perspective, is not mappable by any mathematics or number.

Again, none of these things are literally "non existent"

They're all virtually the same and it's thereby meaningless.

Oh yes, this is the same guy that says he is "unbiased" but thinks SCP 3812's ability is "dimension hopping" while molecule man is equal to Featherine because "Narrative Manipulation".

The same guy that says Imagination can encompass any cosmology, but ignores the fallacy that unformalised imagination can also imagine omnipotence

The same guy that changes his opinions every thread, thinks every person debating for SCP is my alt, has schizophrenic attacks about me returning to spacebattles and thinks Logically inconsistent arguments are feasible in debates.

Real credible guy you got there

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bdelloidgrain2

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@lmaolmaolmao: @lmaolmaolmao: I just showed statements directly from the source material that debunk his transcending being instant. A vague author statement from a couple years after the work was completed should not be used as primary source material. And it should definitely not override the original story. Regardless, the author has completely contradicted himself.

Now true, there are some minor problems with Thopples analogy, but it captures the gist of the problem. By transcending a narrative, 3812 is essentially making himself more meta (or making the previous universe more false). Now, while it is true that he adds "layers" of reality to himself, the point still stands that he is essentially reality warping a multiverse in order to create realities beneath him. However, there are always going to be realities above him. Realities that he needs time to get to. He might eventually reach the top of these infinite ladders, but it is unknown. He didn't immediately start at the top, he needs to climb - therefore not instantaneous. Also, how is the multiverse comment he made a NLF? He's just saying by transcending a multiverse, you can essentially alter it. As a result, you can rewrite it to make certain things fiction or not fiction.

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bdelloidgrain2

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#45  Edited By bdelloidgrain2

@lmaolmaolmao: Also, I know you are Saitama on spacebattkes. The same guy that wanked SCP and got in a huge fight with Dopples and then got banned.

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deactivated-60bb0863d7390

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@gelato_exotic said:

Yhwach

You didn't read the title

"Can any Non-omnipotent character beat SCP-3812 in 10/10 times?"

Yhwach is omnipotent

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gelato_exotic

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@astraea said:
@gelato_exotic said:

Yhwach

You didn't read the title

"Can any Non-omnipotent character beat SCP-3812 in 10/10 times?"

Yhwach is omnipotent

Damn bro you right my apologies for downplaying

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lmaolmaolmao

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@lmaolmaolmao: @lmaolmaolmao: I just showed statements directly from the source material that debunk his transcending being instant. A vague author statement from a couple years after the work was completed should not be used as primary source material. And it should definitely not override the original story. Regardless, the author has completely contradicted himself.

You didn't really show it isn't instant. All you showed was that its a continuous process, which we already know. Levels of infinities can get so big that you can map every infinitesimal instant of time to an object one to one, so it isn't really outright illogical. Plus, I have already explained the mechanics, each narrative transcends the time of a lower narrative, and all of them have a seperate time stream. So if you want to play the "He takes time" game then I can argue 3812 also transcended the time of the first narrative, hence it would be a non factor.

It literally doesn't override the story, I literally explained why it logically makes sense in the context of the story because the author was unable to stop his transcendence. Only way it would be an outright contradiction will be if you think 3812's transcendence should make him above everything possible by definition, which isn't necessarily what "instant" transcendence in a given narrative would translate to.

There can be many possibilities, like maybe the narrative stack has as many narratives as there are real numbers, or maybe the time synchronisation between the narratives differs(since they are all different time flows after all). Us not knowing the true mechanics does not translate to it being a contradiction.

Anyway, at the end it wouldn't even matter if 3812 can transcend instantly or not, as he should start at the same level as his opponents for fairness

Now true, there are some minor problems with Thopples analogy, but it captures the gist of the problem. By transcending a narrative, 3812 is essentially making himself more meta (or making the previous universe more false). Now, while it is true that he adds "layers" of reality to himself, the point still stands that he is essentially reality warping a multiverse in order to create realities beneath him.

Jesus christ, no. That's plain dumb. He isn't unmaking/remaking jack shit. These higher narratives already "existed".

However, there are always going to be realities above him. Realities that he needs time to get to. He might eventually reach the top of these infinite ladders, but it is unknown.

He literally states that one day he will be above the top.

He didn't immediately start at the top, he needs to climb - therefore not instantaneous.

There is a difference between "Transcending everything by default" and "transcending everything instantly". Why would statements saying the process is continuous debunk it being instantaneous?

Also, how is the multiverse comment he made a NLF? He's just saying by transcending a multiverse, you can essentially alter it. As a result, you can rewrite it to make certain things fiction or not fiction.

You can't really do levels of warping that are never shown in your series by feats. Otherwise we can NLF it to say they can create omnipotent beings inside the multiverse which will be a logical fallacy. It's like textbook NLF

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