Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

How was he amped?

@samjackson: I’m on mobile, so I can’t link it, but there’s a quote that says that Kanan got a force amp when he receives Ezra’s saber. And I also said that Kanan beating GI is PIS b/c a non Jar’Kai wielder like Kanan (who was stomped by GI barely before) makes no sense.

End of Rebels Kanan also got a Force Slow(or freeze even) when he used it on Hera to save her from the exploding depot, so I’m not sure if Cal having it would be an advantage

@saiyanmonkey: I'm not sure if he froze her or just lifted her with TK. But in the same episode he did freeze a stormtrooper.

@saiyanmonkey: Devs confirmed slow is an ability unique to Cal

And stasis is different than slow.

This is why I left this website (also because of the terrible interface). Had to pop back into one of my accounts just to post.

Kanan takes this by a big margin. His feats against The Grand Inquisitor alone canonically put him over Cal.

Literally just beat Jedi: Fallen Order too on the Jedi Grandmaster difficulty, so it's made obvious to me what Cal is capable of constantly viewing those cutscenes over and over.

You've got people in this post touting that Cal fought Vader as if he contended with him, and others just automatically believing it and not realizing what the context is, also ignoring that Cere saved him.

People not remembering Kanan's feats and downplaying him immensely.

People overrating the shit out of Cal by saying he straight up beat people like Taron Malicos when he literally did not, and it's made obvious in the game codex that he was going to lose until Nightsister Merrin saved him and sealed Taron away.

And other misc crazy issues like people trying to say Cal's force slow ability is actually him moving fast, and just perceiving things slowly while doing so when that's literally not what happens at all, and in actuality he's actually just using a less powerful variant of stasis established by Yoda, and further by Kylo Ren in the canon lore.

This thread is a joke. Comic Vine is a joke.

Thread is fucked. Website is fucked.

That's all I wanted to say.

Cal. Both were barely Padawans when they stopped training, so they are trash, which by default makes the Inquisitors trash since they can't beat people with an early teen's amount of training, much less a full fledged Jedi Knight, or, heaven forbid, a Jedi Master.

Cal however, was less out of practice, since Fallen Order takes place 5 years after ROTS, while iirc, Rebels is only a few years away from ANH. He wins.

@tulak_naga: Considered joining SI? It's an SW forum run by Az, Ant, Elm, etc.

Here's the link.

In no universe is Cal stomping, lol. I'm not sure where the idea is coming from that Cal is comfortably above either the Ninth Sister or Second Sister, because nothing corroborates that, as we have a limited canonical view of the contents of the fights, and the fights were clearly rather long and strenuous. What's obvious is that both Kanan and Cal are more or less Inquisitor-level, so this should be a good fight.

As far as Cal's Slow ability goes, does anyone really know how effective the ability is against Force users? You would think that Slow would be a haxx move capable of netting easy victories for Cal, yet gameplay mechanics aside, we've only seen Cal use it against non-Force sensitives.

Since Kanan is blind he probably loses. Prime Kanan with his sight would win, considering he beat the grand inquisitor pre prime, while Cal just managed to beat the second sister while in his prime.

On my play through Cal isn’t even rat level

@alextheboss: Blind Kanan is prime Kanan. Kanan after he was blinded achieved a deeper connection to the force than he had beforehand.

@americanspeeddemon: He reaches a new level in the force, but in saber combat I think he was hindered by his blindness.

@alextheboss: Maybe. He doesn't really have any feats post blindness besides outmaneuvering Maul that one time. I dont see why he'd be hindered his force vision is better than regular vision.

@samjackson: he’s very agile and he possesses the force echo ability as well as a definite knowledge of both single and dual lightsaber combat by the end of the game

Cal Kestis. More impressive feats than Kanan imo

Just a question, is there at least some rough hierarchy of the different Imperial Inquisitors (from the Rebels show, Comics, J:FO etc.), in terms of capability?

I mean, is it fair to assume that the Grand Inquisitor is above all the other individual Inquisitor "Brothers" and "Sisters"...?

@waking_dreamer: on the official Star Wars page it says the lower the number the stronger. So second sister would be stronger than ninth.

On topic after playing the game and just having watched rebels, there’s no reason why Kanan shouldn’t win. Slow isn’t as strong as ppl make it out to be, it isn’t super speed as some ppl try to say but just a telekinetic field around the target, anyone with strong enough force ability should be able to push against it. And Kanan made the Grand Inquisitor look like a chump and he’s stronger than the game inquisitors. Kanan wins

@firestarlord73194: would this be a stomp for Kanna or would cal make him work for the win

....Wow so the Rebels crew were scraping the bottle of the barrel with their Inquisitor opponents?....That just makes it even worse for them....and they frankly aren't even that spectacular to start.

Kanan. If you want a fair fight, makenit Season 1-2 Kanan (not counting blind kanan)

I can only provide gameplay / mechanic stuff right now. Still for what it is worth, there seems to be clear limits to the ability. It seems to work on Trilla and Ninth Sister. Darth Vader not really and Malicos too though (latter sample) I think.

Cal wins. Better feats.

Kanans win over the GI was circumstantial. And the quotes used to justify his "growth" are all from blogs. Which are not reviewed and therefore not canon.

Kanan wins. Better feats.

Kanan won against the GI despite having been tortured beforehand.

Kanan's raw power was enough to let him manipulate ship sized asteroids to catch up to a ship participating in a race and hold up masses of earth described as a mountain, seemingly without strain.

I've seen all of SW: Rebels (sans the tie-ins) and I've played JFO through twice now. In a fight, I can almost never see Kanan winning. Now as to who is stronger in the Force, I couldn't say (nor do I think it's necessarily vitally relevant as to who could beat the other up), but given being able to see how they fight and who they've fought against, I personally find Cal's victories and accomplishments to be more impressive.

Kanan stomps

@killbilly:

Speaks to how powerful Jedi students are.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume all Jedi students are that powerful simply because Kanan has impressive feats... Come on man. That was weak, even for you.

Sure it is. Cal & Ahsoka all have impressive telekinetic feats as early to mid-stage students, and even in legends, students practiced their telekinetic skills daily by lifting sizable boulders. The general range of power that Jedi possess has always depended entirely on the writer. The writers of Shadow Hunter and the Jedi Apprentice series for example, are towards the bottom, as opposed to the people behind the 2003 CW show. Canon writers lean higher.

"Twisting faceup as he dropped, Kanan hit the ground. He looked up into the onrushing mass – and stopped it, with his mind. It was an odd feeling, like putting on an old article of clothing. It was like the leap, something he had sworn never to do. Not in front of anyone, to be sure. But now he had done it." - Star Wars: A New Dawn.

"And then he let go. Let go with his mind, and listened as a mountain, denied, found the space where he had landed." - Star Wars: A New Dawn.

"You brought a mountain down on my head!" - Star Wars: A New Dawn.

None of them have feats on that level. Specifically Cal, Kanan's opponent in this match...

That's like saying because a Jedi master stopped an avalanche, all Jedi masters are capable of such a feat.

@killbilly:

What are Cal's feats? I'm not too familiar with them...

Me neither. But from what I hear, his best stuff is scaling off of the inquisitors he beat.

@killbilly:

That's interesting. Well since Kanan beat the GI, that should put Kanan above him, since the GI is apparently stronger than the other inquistors.

@killbilly:

None of them have feats on that level. Specifically Cal, Kanan's opponent in this match...

Only Yoda has mountain level feats, so of course not. Either it's a mountain or it's hyperbole.

That's like saying because a Jedi master stopped an avalanche, all Jedi masters are capable of such a feat.

If it was a generic, relatively unexceptional Master, then it would certainly reflect the general power someone who has achieved the rank of Master possesses. Without a shadow of a doubt. Even a more prominent Master's showings should be scaled to other people of that rank. Some things are just implied.

Unless they're stated to be some prodigy, when a student performs a certain way, this should serve as a benchmark for how good students of that stage are expected to be.

Cal was an early-stage, adolescent Padawan when Order 66 occurred. The death of his master caused emotional trauma that weakened his connection to the Force, and he spends almost the entire game trying to repair the damage. He also didn't use a lightsaber for 5 years. So for most of the game he's technically pre-prime, which makes his feats all the more impressive.

He outfought Tarion Malicos, a Dark Jedi, while on Dathomir, which is a major dark side nexus. Malicos was also implied to have achieved the same unique connection to Dathomir's lifeblood power that the Nightsisters tap into, meaning he would be double amped.

He outfought Nineth Sister, an Inquisitor. And he traded wins & losses with Second Sister, who is one of the deadliest Inquisitors.

That really makes no sense tbh. The GI was playing around with him in pretty much all their showings leading up to that point, and the Fifth Brother -- a match for a stronger Kanan -- was absolutely terrified by the GI. I think there was likely some circumstance to that fight, like Kanan against Maul.

@lord_tenebrous:

Tbh I am not aware of much of the stuff that happened in Rebels. I never fully got into the show, and I only watched some specific episodes lol.

We're in the same boat, YouTube is really my only source for Rebels material.

Though, Kanan never technically defeated the GI, blade to blade. They matched evenly, then there was dialogue, then the GI held out his lightsaber handle like a moron while the blade spun a circle. Kanan just chopped the completely, needlessly exposed hilt that was practically thrust in his face with a sign that said "strike here."

Based on what are you making this presumption... I never claimed it was "a mountain" either. I said that the mass of earth he held up was "described as a mountain" by multiple sources.

Not if we'd seen other "masters" struggle to accomplish feats on that level. In the case of "former padwans" like Kanan and Cal, we know moving masses as large as ones that Kanan manipulates regularly and without any strain is not normal. Cases like Ahsoka are an exception considering she took on 3 magnaguards, which are usually a match for fully fledged Jedi, on her first real mission, held off Grievous after only a few months on the field and defeated the likes Maul without even having been knighted.

If a character distinguishes themselves from other members, they are an exception regardless of whether or not they have been noted to be.

@lord_tenebrous

Yeah lol that was kind of stupid. I don't get why they had GI die in the first season, he was actually a cool character, and much better than the other inquisitors.

The GI remarked on Kanan's improvement throughout each of their encounters. In their first encounter, Kanan pinned the GI to a ceiling with telekinesis and held him there for an appreciable amount of time. In their last encounter, the GI had been torturing Kanan for days prior to his rescue by the Ghost Crew.

The only time Kanan ever fought the Fifth Brother for any extended period of time was when both Ezra and a second Inquisitor were present and he had to worry about protecting himself and his padawan. Also, there's nothing preventing the other Inquisitors from having approached or even surpassed the GI after his death. Both the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister demonstrated prodigious raw power throughout Rebels.

One would presume any growth they underwent would have been equally impressive.

Cal's feats are hard to quantify for debates like this because much of his performance is contingent on gameplay, which can vary from person to person and difficulty setting. So when I evaluate him, I focus on his capabilities, opponents he has overcome (and by proxy, their capabilities), and "fundamentals", which is to say sequences of hardcoded gameplay and/or cutscenes, which take the "player choice" out of the equation.

For instance, Cal faced off against 2 AT-STs (with grenade launchers and rocket launchers) at once, on his own, and defeated them both. How he defeated them is based on gameplay, but the fact that he did so is a "fundamental", because it is a hardcoded event. He also defeated the gigantic Dathomirian bat Gorgara, telekinetically froze a tornado and all the boulders within it (before recovering his damaged connection to the Force) and has (1) fought and defeated opponents I personally don't think Kanan could have taken down on his own through a comparison of his combative abilities against theirs, specifically the Ninth Sister and especially the Second Sister, and (2) has survived situations on his own that I'm not convinced Kanan could have, specifically Cal one-man-armying his way through Fortress Inquisitorious.

People with much more time and better means than I can break some of Cal's feats down better than I in a more meticulous way.

https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/eamixv/respect_cal_kestis_star_wars_jedi_fallen_order/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthbane77/blog/cal-kestis-respect-thread/142114/