Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus

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thebluedragon20

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Because it seems some are getting an early start on fallen order threads, I really wanted to make this one.

Kanan as of the end as Star Wars Rebels

Cal as of Fallen Order

Standard gear

Takes place in on geonosis where Anakin and Obi wan confronted dooku

Who wins?

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SamJackson

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thebluedragon20

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@samjackson: From what i have seen so far, he is very agile, can fight evenly with the second sister near the beginning of the game, and can slow objects and people with the force. That's about all iv's seen so far.

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Wolfrazer

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#4 Wolfrazer  Online

@thebluedragon20: Pretty sure he's just using Force Speed, things are still moving around him just a bit slower.

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thebluedragon20

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@wolfrazer: It can't be though, because when its used directly on an enemy, all of the other enemies are unaffected right?

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Wolfrazer

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#6 Wolfrazer  Online

@thebluedragon20: If you look at when the ability is used, you can still see blaster bolts moving at a slow pace.

It's much like Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy when you use Force Speed, everything is slown down to a crawl even the blaster shots, but they are still moving.

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thebluedragon20

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#7  Edited By thebluedragon20

@wolfrazer: But that's the thing. Not everything is slowed down. Only single objects or single enemies. Furthermore, the ability on the ability tree is called enhanced slow.

Edit: I should mention that i'm still in the process of watching a full walkthrough of it, so I don't have all of the info yet.

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Wolfrazer

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#8 Wolfrazer  Online

@thebluedragon20: That sounds similar to Force speed, or increasing his perceptions at the least. But then, I guess we'll know more as info comes out, I just remember with the video, that it looked more like Force speed than anything else.

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Greysentinel365

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Cal curbstomps.

@thebluedragon20: That sounds similar to Force speed, or increasing his perceptions at the least. But then, I guess we'll know more as info comes out, I just remember with the video, that it looked more like Force speed than anything else.

It's confirmed in the game it's a slowing ability unique to him. It triggers when his master dies.

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thebluedragon20

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@greysentinel365: what makes him curbstomp? Does he fodderize inquisitors at the end of the game?

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Greysentinel365

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#11  Edited By Greysentinel365

@thebluedragon20: Pretty much yeah.

He beat the 9th sister mid-game, a Jedi master two thirds of the way through and then beats the more powerful second sister and fights Vader.

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thebluedragon20

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thebluedragon20

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@greysentinel365: Also, may want to spoiler block that for those that don't want to know.

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Wolfrazer

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#14  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: Slowing what exactly?

Hold on a tick, is this like that Force Slow ability?

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Greysentinel365

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#15  Edited By Greysentinel365

@wolfrazer: Think of it like a not all the way there force freeze like Kylo uses.

Loading Video...

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Wolfrazer

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#16  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: So it's just the Force Slow ability. That's basically how it looks and is described. Alright then.

Well I guess Kanan isn't gonna have a defense against that, if Cal decides to use it.

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Greysentinel365

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@wolfrazer: Obviously.

But yeah with the stuff he gets Kanan is going down.

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Wolfrazer

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#18 Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: Is it just that scene though he uses it?

Cause if so, it might not be something that he uses a lot.

I kinda don't really wanna count game mechanics, for obvious reasons.

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Greysentinel365

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#19  Edited By Greysentinel365

@wolfrazer: Nah he uses it a fair few times. In the second last fight he slows the Second Sister with it so he can take the Holocron. Then slaps her while she's stuck.

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Wolfrazer

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#20 Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: Alright fair enough then. Well yeah, guess I can't really see Kanan winning it then. Though I guess even without it, I still wouldn't given what we know.

Though he really fights Vader?....Seriously?

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DevoidRuby

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Cal unironically stomps Kanan into the ground.

Kanan struggles immensely to even contend with any Inquisitor he fought while Cal performs much better to put it lightly.

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Greysentinel365

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#22  Edited By Greysentinel365

@wolfrazer: The thing is Kanan was never Inquisitor level consistently. Always getting ragdolled by the people like the Fifth Brother and such. Cal literally TK onshots the Ninth Sister

Loading Video...

And plays with the second by the end

Loading Video...

Kanan has never done this to Inquisitor level enemies at base. Only when in oneness trances.

Though he really fights Vader?....Seriously?

Yes

No Caption Provided

Stabs him like a bitch.

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Wolfrazer

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#23  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: Might wanna cover up my quoted post!

...That's kinda...sad.

Is it at least a cheapshot? Or does he really actually stab him?

But I guess with how easy he dispatched those Inquisitors compared to Kanan...yeah, that shows him being superior...even though frankly, I haven't really found any of these Inquisitors apart from the GI in this New Canon to be anything great.

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Greysentinel365

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@wolfrazer: Nah I'm playing with you on the Vader thing. Vader oneshots his master with a wristflick and the gif is the entire fight. Right after that Vader pulls out the blade like nothing and oneshots Cal.

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Wolfrazer

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#25 Wolfrazer  Online

@greysentinel365: .....I'm not exactly sure how I'm suppose to feel about that gif...

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AzureAmaterasu

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Cal is a tier two above Kanan methinks.

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SamJackson

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Cal stomps

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arsomartinera

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#28  Edited By arsomartinera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jttn7-0Vvg was watching this video indeed that's talks about the two characters, personnaly can't decide which one of them because we don't have much informations about it

https://appsync.biz/dafont/ https://showbox.bio/ https://www.oovoo.onl/adam4adam/

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americanspeeddemon

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@devoidruby: To be fair Kanan after he became blinded is confirmed to be closer in tune with the force then ever before so things like defeating the grand inquisitor is definitely something season 3 and 4 Kanan should be able to do.

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Krasny

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#30  Edited By Krasny

@wolfrazer: Thats not what happens in the final fight. this is what goes down.

He doesn't fight Vader the final battle is you running for your life as Vader tries to take the Holocron.

Vader is too op here.

How it goes down you try to attack Vader easily deflects and force chokes you. throws you across and goes all magneto with the force as you try to run and escape.

https://streamable.com/9j3o5

When you think your finally in the clear Vader finds you easily stomps you, your little robot friend messes with the suit to give to a opportunity to strike where Vader than easily stabs you with the force.

https://streamable.com/vn9xt

You only escape because another force user put up a force shield which bought you enough time to break open the glass and swim away while Vader stops all the incoming water.

https://streamable.com/it2zk

You also would have drowned if the night sister didn't save you.

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camilopezo

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#31  Edited By camilopezo

Kanan wins.

Grand inquisitor >> Second sister.

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MyGod000

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#32  Edited By MyGod000

@greysentinel365 said:

@thebluedragon20: Pretty much yeah.

He beat the 9th sister mid-game, a Jedi master two thirds of the way through and then beats the more powerful second sister and fights Vader.

that is false the only night sister he curb was the 9th sisters. the second sister would have killed him in there first duel.

In the second duel you don't even defeat the Second sister you literally get her down to half health then the cut scene starts and you take her light saber. Taron Malicos you had help to defeat him in the form of PIS when Merrin assists you in defeating him. She even states that he would have killed Cal in that duel. he Ran from Vader he couldn't do anything against him even with cere using a Rage amp.

Kanan also fought Vader and did far better against a Far stronger Vader than Cal did who was defenseless against him and could only run from him.

Fallen Order is Vader 5 years after ROTS, in canon that is Vader after he surpassed pre-suit Vader who fought Obi-wan. Rebels is 14 years after ROTS and is stated to be Vader prime.

Rebels Vader>>>>>>Fallen Order Vader>>Anakin Vader on Mustafar

Kanan wins here Grand inquisitor>>other Inquisitor. it stated that Grand Inquisitor trained the others.

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Wolfrazer

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#33  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@mygod000: Why does that mean the GI is above them? Just because he trained them doesn't mean he's above them.

Plus we don't know what this training consists of, it could be any number of things from interrogation ability or combat.

This isn't to say the GI isn't above them, but frankly just saying that he is without any real evidence is a bit...wonky. Him being the leader doesn't really mean anything, he could have gotten that position because of something else other than his skill in combat.

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MyGod000

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#34  Edited By MyGod000

@azureamaterasu said:

Cal is a tier two above Kanan methinks.

How so when he fought and survived a fight against a far more powerful Vader? Everything Cal Did Kanan can do if not better...cal is like what 16-19 in fallen Order and Kanan is like in his early to mid 30s.

nothing Cal did in that game is out of the realm of what Kanan could do. his Greatest feats are due to having help.

Cal would have died against Malicos, if he didn't have help at the end and it is stated in the game that he would have killed you. He almost killed you right before Merrin saves you when you have him down to half health. Also in the end of the fight it looked like he was going to kill you until Merrin does her magic and puts him into the ground.

Cals greatest feat is defeating the Second sister which the Grand inquisitor is above.

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MyGod000

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#35  Edited By MyGod000

@wolfrazer said:

@mygod000: Why does that mean the GI is above them? Just because he trained them doesn't mean he's above them.

Plus we don't know what this training consists of, it could be any number of things from interrogation ability or combat.

This isn't to say the GI isn't above them, but frankly just saying that he is without any real evidence is a bit...wonky. Him being the leader doesn't really mean anything, he could have gotten that position because of something else other than his skill in combat.

the evidence is because none of them ever defeated him in duels.

Like I said Kanan fought a far more powerful Vader who was in his prime... the Vader that is in Fallen Order is 9 years away from rebels and is Pre-prime. The only thing we can say is that Vader in Fallen Order is more powerful than the Vader that Fought Obi-wan in ROTS...and that is fact since Vader in Fallen Order was able to hold back an Ocean.

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Wolfrazer

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#36  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@mygod000: I don't really see that as strong evidence, plus we've never even seen the training from what I recall, it's just stated.

Can we really say that was even a fight against Vader with Kanan?...I don't recall it being much a fight, since Vader really seemed to be just messing around.

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MyGod000

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#37  Edited By MyGod000

@wolfrazer said:

@mygod000: I don't really see that as strong evidence, plus we've never even seen the training from what I recall, it's just stated.

Can we really say that was even a fight against Vader with Kanan?...I don't recall it being much a fight, since Vader really seemed to be just messing around.

Yeah, because Vader was actually really trying his hardest against Cal Kestis.

No Caption Provided

Come on Let use some common sense here. Vader literally toyed with Cal and then he ran. the only time he even touched him was when he had BB droid strike Vader where he took advantage of that and stabbed him. It's irrelevant if it wasn't a fight or not with Kanan, because it wasn't a fight with Cal either let be serious here and stop.

what was Cal's training consist of that make him Kanan's league? we saw his training which was just him jumping on platforms and stuff nothing really ground breaking at all when we see him with his master when Order 66 happened...same with Kanan, he was just starting out the same time Cal was starting out and they both lost their Master...and had to find there way. Cal actually has a new master in Cere while Kanan doesn't.

Both Cal and Kanan were Jedi Padwan's...the difference was that Kanan is older than Cal is here. inquisitors are Jedi knight level... and Kanan may not have been beating them left and right but you are over hyping Cal because during most of his fights in the game you have assistance.

at the end he defeated the second Sister who in canon is weaker than the Grand inquisitor, it pretty much stated in the canon comics regardless if it isn't really touched up on in the show.

Kanan defeating the GI is a greater feat then Cal defeating the second sister.

Kanan also defeated Maul who is stated to be way above inquisitors stated in the show and shown as well as stated by the producers of the show.

Regardless my point went over your head here...it was to show you that Kanan Survived against a far more powerful Vader.

Cal could do nothing against a toying weaker Vader who held back an Ocean.

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Wolfrazer

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#38 Wolfrazer  Online

@mygod000: I'm what? I never said that Vader was trying against Cal.

Also I'm pretty sure in both the GI and Maul's case, Kanan was acting far above normal levels according to the writers in those interviews with those episodes, I wouldn't say that's his normal ability.

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noah_ouellette

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Cal Destroys. Force slow and a force push strong enough to send large creatures flying off cliffs. Easily Cal. Also great game.

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MyGod000

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#40  Edited By MyGod000

@wolfrazer said:

@mygod000: I'm what? I never said that Vader was trying against Cal.

Also I'm pretty sure in both the GI and Maul's case, Kanan was acting far above normal levels according to the writers in those interviews with those episodes, I wouldn't say that's his normal ability.

okay, we both agree that Vader wasn't even remotely trying against either of them.

So...how can you claim Cal is greater when he was faced with a Far weaker Vader than who Kanan was faced with?

I'll give Cal the edge in Hax abilities since slow ability is pretty unique to him and would be very handy. Yes, I agree that wasn't his normal fighting abilities because he was empowered by the force in both fights with the GI and with maul.

my point still stands that Kanan Survived a far more powerful Version of Vader than Cal did. which should count for something in this debate.

Cal in terms of ability>Kanan.

Kanan in terms of skill>Cal

Regardless by Season 3-4 Kanan is very much able to take down Inquisitors without much trouble as well as beat Grand inquisitor.

during Season 1 Kanan was out of practice and it was stated as well that he was. after his encounter with the GI he started back to doing training again and it was stated by the GI who embarrassed Kanan in their first duel.

Season 3-4 is when He started getting Training by Bendu and was much stronger. Ezra in season 3 could be argued as being as good as Cal during the start of the game if not better.

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americanspeeddemon

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@wolfrazer: Season 3 quotes imply that Kanan is on that level now naturally. Kanan defeated the GI by becoming awakened in the force.

"Kanan is awakened in the Force and defeats his enemy by defeating his greatest fear."

-- http://www.starwars.com/news/rebels-revisited-5-essential-kanan-jarrus-episodes

But even After this Kanan has problems trusting in himself and the force. However, after losing his Eyesight Kanan was forced to rely on the force more deeply than ever before.

"Under the guidance of the mysterious Bendu, Kanan was forced to rely on the Force more deeply than ever before."

-- http://www.starwars.com/news/rebels-revisited-5-essential-kanan-jarrus-episodes

And is arguably at the Pinnacle of his skills in Season 3

"Though he is arguably at the pinnacle of his skills,"

-- http://www.starwars.com/news/rebels-revisited-5-essential-kanan-jarrus-episodes

Kanan achieves a permanent balance after training with the Bendu.

"And his sight returns. Stronger. Clearer. Different. Kanan attains a balance in this episode that never again leaves him"

-- http://www.starwars.com/news/rebels-revisited-5-essential-kanan-jarrus-episodes

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Wolfrazer

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#42  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@mygod000: That Slow ability he has can give him an advantage if he opts in using it. Which my initial post suggested, but I wasn't sure on the context of Cal's fights, just going off what was posted here. So I go back to my initial post here.

@americanspeeddemon: Yet he still struggles against Inquisitors after defeating his greatest foe in the GI? He shouldn't be going backwards. He also loses to Ruhk in melee combat?

Still fair enough.

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MyGod000

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#43  Edited By MyGod000

@wolfrazer said:

@mygod000: That Slow ability he has can give him an advantage if he opts in using it. Which my initial post suggested, but I wasn't sure on the context of Cal's fights, just going off what was posted here. So I go back to my initial post here.

@americanspeeddemon: Yet he still struggles against Inquisitors after defeating his greatest foe in the GI? He also loses to Ruhk in melee combat?

Still fair enough.

him struggling again inquisitors and Ruhk after he defeated the GI is a lovely thing called PIS. the Grand inquisitor and Maul are the strongest people in the show outside of Vader and Sidious.

Kanan beat both Gran inquisitor and Maul in a duel. by logic since Kanan can defeat Maul and GI by extension he beats normal inquisitors pretty easily. the Producer of Rebels had to find some way to make the show interesting.

Ahoska somewhat struggled with them as well...and by this time she is master level Jedi easily...clearly plot was the reason they struggled so they can tell the story.

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Wolfrazer

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#44  Edited By Wolfrazer  Online

@mygod000: Well they clearly went backwards then, the GI should have been last not first.

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MyGod000

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#45  Edited By MyGod000

@wolfrazer said:

@mygod000: Well they clearly went backwards then, the GI should have been last not first.

Like I said Regardless of who was first...in canon it stated the GI>>All other inquisitors.

sure they should have had him last, but that doesn't mean anything when we know that he is above them because it was established in the new canon that he is above all other inquisitors.

Ahsoka when she first came into rebels Soloed all the Inquisitors at the same time(minus the GI) then in a later episode with Kanan and ezra's helping her, she struggled with just one inquisitor, right before fighting Vader.

it called PIS buddy what more do you want? in some episode to tell a story they nerf the characters.

It happens all the time, Kanan by season 3 is at least on GI tier if not slightly stronger. if we are going of Feats and appearances then Vader in Fallen Order is more powerful than Vader in rebels...which is fails and laughable because canonically speaking Rebels Vader is stated to be when he was in his prime and because Rebels happens 9 years after Fallen Order as well.

so we can conclude that Rebels Vader>>>>>>Fallen Order Vader

It shouldn't matter when GI came into the show as it still stands he is still the strongest of the Inquisitors until someone in Star wars author states he isn't which hasn't happened yet.

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deactivated-5e72183304ce6

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Cal utterly stomps. Malicos was on a massive nexus, and cal won, he froze troopers, and Kanan’s best feats are either in Oneness; or PIS (GI). Whereas Cal oneshot Masana Tide and can TK slam the Second Sister.

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americanspeeddemon

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@wolfrazer: The force is about perception and Kanan in season 2 didn't have a clear view of his value and purpose and so he limited himself. Filoni actually talks about it as well.

"Kanan’s an incomplete Jedi. As much as we have to track Ezra’s ascension, we have to parallel Kanan’s own wisdom and what he’s learning. Kanan’s hesitations this year, his reluctance to embrace the rebellion, and his unwillingness to commit to what they could gain out of the Temple all point to him not embracing leadership like he should. He doesn’t trust himself enough yet. So, the blinding of Kanan really is symbolic in that he can’t see what the right thing to do is. He can’t see what he has to offer Ezra.

...

"People think, “Oh, but the Force will allow him to do things.” The Force is not a super power. It doesn’t work that way. It’s a matter of what you’re willing to believe. I think the story that we tell with Kanan and his blindness is simple — you are as limited as you allow yourself to be. You’re going to be able to see if you believe you can see and this can open up new things you couldn’t see before. There’s an important character that Kanan will meet in Season Three that is going to help change his perception."

So yeah season one Kanan taps into power but by gaining momentary clarity but it isn't until he meets the Bendu that he's able to operate at max power consistently.

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caffineandshiny

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#48  Edited By caffineandshiny
Loading Video...

Kanan wins. Cal MIGHT in the future.

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camilopezo

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deactivated-5e72183304ce6

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@camilopezo: Kanan got amped, and there’s no reason he should’ve won. Nothing actually says GI > Trilla bar rank, and Knight Anakin >> Fisto.. so.