CA1 Tourney: RND 1: TTBA VS. kidman560 (closed)

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cosmicallyaware1

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#1  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

The Marvel VS. DC Tourney!!!

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It's happening again!!!!!!!

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The Scenario!!!!!

Quite simply once again The Grandmaster and Krona are creating havoc on a grand abstract scale

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and our heroes and villains from each prospective Universe have been throw into contests to prove their universe is worthy sparing of annihilation. Each team believes that if they win, they will obtain the power item for their universe. The prospective universe teams that obtains the most power items presents them at the end of the tournament and saves the day (or in the villains case, win control!!!)

each team sees their power item suspended in the sky of every match, similar to this:

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The Rules of engagement!!!!!

  • NO BFR FOR WIN, however may be used in a battle as an element as applicable. Just not for a win
  • Standard gear as applicable, and this is MORALS OFF characters
  • No Timetravel or Time manipulation
  • No insta-kill one shots (this would include complete mind rape. none of that for the win for you TP users)
  • speaking of TP / Psychic abilities here..........no completely controlling / KO an opponent. Influencing, illusions, weakening, confusing, yada yada yada.....fine
  • molecular rearrangement / matter manipulation. May be used to alter organics but NOT against your opponents body, anything else if fair game.......(environment, etc.....)
  • Summoning minions. Limited. Inquire for adjudication.
  • NO PREP!!!! Muahahahaha!!!!
  • Starting distance = 10 miles apart.
  • Win is KO / incapacitation / death of opponent

The Battlefield Location!!!!!

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a dying planet chosen as neutral ground for the tourney. It is similar to earth in all ways. just on it's last legs. It is uninhabited. However there are empty cities and structures all throughout the planet along with the typical oceans, deserts, mountain ranges, forests, etc....

The Contestants in this Battle!!!

Thetrubarryallen (DC Team)

Cyborg Superman (no rings, pre 52) and Sinestro

perk = Refraction!!!!

VS.

Kidman560 (Marvel Team)

Silver Surfer and Shaman Nate Grey

perk = Time Freeze!!!!

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The Perks store!!!!

each team is allowed to select ONE of the following perks for the battle. Read and choose carefully:

  • TP resistance (5 min duration) for only one team member.
  • Invisibility (one team member affected. 1 sec duration)
  • Teleportation generator. (one team member only, can only be used once!)
  • Invulnerability!!! (think Mario's star!) 2 sec duration (resistant to EVERYTHING!)
  • Nullify!!! Negates a specified opponents abilities for 5 seconds.... (includes perks!)
  • Pre-Cog flashes! 2 min duration......
  • Refraction!!! opponents attack bounce back! use x1 time in a battle, any time of choosing
  • "cosmic awarenesss" insight! x1 in a battle, one member uses it only (duration 2 seconds)
  • Magic Immunity! (30 sec duration) (one team member)
  • Time Freeze! (I said no time manip in OP, well this is the only way to get it!!! 2 sec duration.....area of effect......50 foot radius bubble in all directions......use wisely and carefully if chosen)
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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@cosmicallyaware1: I'll take the 'Refraction' perk - also Cyborg Superman isn't given any rings at the start of the fight, but is it within tournament regulations for Sinestro to deputize him & give him a Power Ring like what happened w/Scarecrow in Blackest Night?

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@cosmicallyaware1: I'll take the 'Refraction' perk - also Cyborg Superman isn't given any rings at the start of the fight, but is it within tournament regulations for Sinestro to deputize him & give him a Power Ring like what happened w/Scarecrow in Blackest Night?

cool, and.........................yeah. I like your "outside the box" thinking on that one, I'll totally allow that just for sheer ingenuity alone.

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#5  Edited By TheTrueBarryAllen

@thetruebarryallen said:

@cosmicallyaware1: I'll take the 'Refraction' perk - also Cyborg Superman isn't given any rings at the start of the fight, but is it within tournament regulations for Sinestro to deputize him & give him a Power Ring like what happened w/Scarecrow in Blackest Night?

cool, and.........................yeah. I like your "outside the box" thinking on that one, I'll totally allow that just for sheer ingenuity alone.

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Awesome - @kidman560 would you like to go first or shall I?

I'll have you know I work tomorrow & Wednesday so it might take me a day or two to get a post up.

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#8  Edited By kidman560

@thetruebarryallen: alright so lets start with the Obvious we doing tag team here... meaning

Silver Surfer

he be up first

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your standard Nano-Second Reaction time All-Star

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good luck sneaking up on him

1. he can go intangible

2. he has force fields

3-4. he can drain peoples souls

Silver Surfer is quite hard to kill

Very hard to hurt also considering a 100 tonner punched.... ah i mean "bumped" into him in the face

hes also taken planet busting attacks

1. hes destroys a planet

2. sends classic Drax flying with a blast

3. Starts laying the Hurt on Mindless Hulk (who is much stronger than your average hulk)

He has a crap ton of other feats but believe it or not hes not the MVP here...

The Main Man (up yours Lobo) Nate Grey

look at all the sexiness
look at all the sexiness

X-man is an omega level mutant... not Telepath but Mutant. the stuff this guy does is insane

given that he is partially Energy, Physical attacks will be largely ineffective against him (sucks to be cyborg super man)

destroys a moon by amping himself with his TK (this was pre-shaman... and Shaman pretty much just increased all of his powers)

he has shields of all kinds thanks to his TK. i like what he says in the 3rd scan "his body is only defenseless as his mind allows him to be. and now that hes also partially energy its even harder to harm him.

kind of owns Mr. Sinister

Mr. Sinister stalemated apocalypse.

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so in other words hes the Insane Power house behind my team

oh and hes a natural time manipulator that has 300 ways of seeing the Future. so that time freeze will be taken advantage of (i just thought id let you know)

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Team DC - True Fear

Cyborg Superman

Hank Henshaw is the Cyborg Superman - a cyborg with his organic parts directly copying those of Superman he was believed to be the Last Son of Kyrpton after the real Superman met his death at the hands of Doomsday.

While it was eventually discovered that this was false, Cyborg Superman has caused death and destruction all throughout the DCU be it the destruction of Coast City that resulted in the deaths of 7 million innocents or his rampage against the Green Lantern Corps, Cyborg Superman is not a foe to be messed with.

His powers are identical to those of Superman; however, he lacks the similar weaknesses and doesn't require solar energy to recharge or keep his abilities. Cyborg Superman is also one of the most talented techno-paths in the entirety of the DC and can make a body out of practically any bit of technology.

It also should be known that Cyborg Superman is actually just an electronic consciousness that can jump from machine to machine and reform said machine into a new body for himself making him incredibly hard to put down for good in a fight.

Oh - and we can't forget that he actually became a Herald of the Anti-Monitor because the AM promised him death. That's right, Cyborg Superman had to beg for a chance at death - he still hasn't been killed.

Sinestro

Thaal Sinestro was once one of the greatest Green Lanterns to ever grace the Corps; however, after being corrupted by power he was banished from the Corps by the Guardians of the Universe.

Sinestro eventually became the leader of his own army known as the Sinestro Corps who bear the powers of fear through their Yellow Power Rings.

With his Yellow Power Ring Sinestro can replicate any feats or abilities he had as a Green Lantern - and Sinestro is incredibly powerful. Using his ring he can create anything his mind desires in the form of Yellow Hard Light Constructs.

Sinestro can also deputize someone & grant them a duplicate of his own Power Ring - this was seen during Blackest Night.

It's unfortunate that you got matched up against Sinestro - for now he will bring you greatest fears to life.

The Battle

You've got some tough cookies on your team - but Sinestro & Cyborg Superman can take them down through team work. It also helps that Sinestro & Cyborg Superman have worked together in the past as Cyborg Superman was once a member of the Sinestro Corps.

The first thing that will happen is that Sinestro will create a duplicate Yellow Ring for Cyborg Superman - he's done so with a Green Lantern Ring before & during Blackest Night he was able to create a duplicate that found Scarecrow.

Scans show Sinestro creating a duplicate of his ring & turning Scarecrow into a member of the Sinestro Corps.

So now we've got Cyborg Superman with a Yellow Lantern Ring - the question is if he'll be able to use it efficiently?

Scans show Cyborg Superman ROFLstomping Superman w/several Qwardian Power Rings.

So while Cyborg Superman only has ONE ring - he knows how to use it.

With Cyborg Superman armed & dangerous he'll head with Sinestro to combat Silver Surfer - because Cyborg Superman's fought Surfer before & he wants revenge on the Herald of Galactus.

First though - Sinestro will drop Nate in a pocket dimension for the time being to remove him from the fight while my team goes after Surfer. Sinestro normally hides his Lantern Battery in a pocket dimension so he can create another one w/ease to get rid of Nate.

Yep - that's right - these two have fought before & this was without Cyborg Superman having assistance & the Yellow Power Ring.

With Sinestro & Cyborg Superman combined and with Cyborg Superman backing the power of a Yellow Power Ring Surfer should go down rather quickly - Sinestro's durability has withstood a planet busting attack [ thank the lord for the strength of his shields ] and Cyborg Superman's body was only destroyed AFTER he took a blast from one of the Guardians of the Universe & then blown up in a Galaxy busting attack from the GLC*.

*NOTE* - Cyborg Superman wanted to die during this story line, so he wasn't really fighting back in this instance. He actually thanked the GLC for what they were doing.

From what I've seen of Nate Grey - he's lacking the speed in this fight - so he won't be of large concern until Surfer is down.

If he tries to bust CS or Sinestro with your 'Time Stopping' perk then I'll just use my Refraction Perk to make the attack harm you instead thus negating any damage my team would've taken.

With Surfer down it'll be all eyes on Nate - my team will bring him out of the Pocket Dimension once Surfer is done.

You mentioned that he's a pure energy form so Cyborg Superman will be useless against him - this is wrong.

Scans show Cyborg Superman fighting against the Blue Superman - a pure energy form. Cyborg Superman was able to reconfigure himself so that his Heat Vision would hurt Energy Forms.

So just because Nate is a pure energy form it doesn't mean that Cyborg Superman is useless against him - especially since Cyborg Superman was able to 1HKO Normal Superman with his Heat Vision.

Scans Show Superman getting 1HKO-ed by Cyborg Superman's Heat Vision - lulz

So Nate will have fun with that while Sinestro thrashes him around with construct after construct.

In other words - Sinestro & Cyborg Superman are the perfect Tag Team in this.

tl;dr

  • Sinestro makes a duplicate ring for Cyborg Superman
  • Sinestro drops Nate in a Pocket Dimension - BFR'ing him for the time being.
  • Team DC goes strictly after Surfer - who is over powered due to Cyborg Superman having a Yellow Ring & the assistance of Sinestro.
  • Nate is brought out of the Pocket Dimension - then is attacked by Team DC.
  • If Nate tries to crush one of my team members with TK or if you try to use the Time Stop perk my team will use the Refraction Perk to send it back at you - thus nullifying your attack.
  • Cyborg Superman can harm pure energy forms - Nate is not immune. Sinestro can too.
  • Team DC teams up on Nate - overpowering him.
  • Team DC wins!

This is kind of brief but I wanted to get an opener up for you @kidman560 - I look forward to your response!

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#10  Edited By kidman560

@thetruebarryallen: lol dude you are BFRing a guy who has teleported through multiverses? wait what?

i propose a counter theory... you try to BFR Nate... he teleports back like a Boss.

Nate traps Cyborg Supes in the time stream (for a little bit) and unlike Nate... Cyborg supes wont be coming back.

Lets address your points

With Sinestro & Cyborg Superman combined and with Cyborg Superman backing the power of a Yellow Power Ring Surfer should go down rather quickly - Sinestro's durability has withstood a planet busting attack [ thank the lord for the strength of his shields ] and Cyborg Superman's body was only destroyed AFTER he took a blast from one of the Guardians of the Universe & then blown up in a Galaxy busting attack from the GLC*.

ehem Surfer is a Master Energy Manipulator... what does that mean... your yellow rings will feed him energy. he will drain the rings energy. now i may be mistaken but that puts an end to Sinestro

ta da bye bye Sinestro. now we have an amped up Surfer... ready to manipulate the soul of Cyborg Superman

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this would be Surfer draining a sun so he is very capable of absorbing the rings energy... do you wanna make more duplicates for the Surfer to Drain? im down with it.

  • Sinestro makes a duplicate ring for Cyborg Superman

good im happy

  • Sinestro drops Nate in a Pocket Dimension - BFR'ing him for the time being.

Nate comes back

  • Team DC goes strictly after Surfer - who is over powered due to Cyborg Superman having a Yellow Ring & the assistance of Sinestro.

Drain Drain Drain Drain Drain

  • Nate is brought out of the Pocket Dimension - then is attacked by Team DC.

no he was already back

  • If Nate tries to crush one of my team members with TK or if you try to use the Time Stop perk my team will use the Refraction Perk to send it back at you - thus nullifying your attack.

nope

  • Cyborg Superman can harm pure energy forms - Nate is not immune. Sinestro can too.

no not really Sinestro is having trouble breathing right now and Cyborg supes is being double teamed. also Nate is Psionic Energy very different from Blue Superman this would not be applicable here.

  • Team DC teams up on Nate - overpowering him.

and where is Surfer?

  • Team DC wins!

I propose a counter theory. Marvel Wins after Sinestro is drained of energy

Heres why your plan fails.

My team absorbs energy, one member of your team is Energy based period. the other one can be lost in the time stream until we are ready for him.

Scans show Cyborg Superman fighting against the Blue Superman - a pure energy form. Cyborg Superman was able to reconfigure himself so that his Heat Vision would hurt Energy Forms.

So just because Nate is a pure energy form it doesn't mean that Cyborg Superman is useless against him - especially since Cyborg Superman was able to 1HKO Normal Superman with his Heat Vision.

Nate is Psionic Energy and trust me that can be very different from regular energy.

Why my team can and will Win

Surfer has the best Durability here

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seeing as he reformed from this punishment id say it wont be that easy for your team to win (especially since Sinestro is like out of the picture)

You now have a total of 0 yellow rings... they were drained

Nate can Telekinetically crush Cyborg Supes into a ball... this would count as an Incap. (kind of like cutting deadpools head off would count as an incap even though he could heal from it) or Surfer can manipulate his soul and fly into the sun where Surfer will be fine but CS soul would be less than fine (at least an incap)

then we burn the lifeless corpse of Sinestro for the lulz

the way i see it is your guys arent even in the same league as my guys. maybe Cyborg Supes is but he is out classed in all areas by Nate Grey who has the power of the Phoenix without it being his host

1. he manifests into the Phoenix force before burning himself out (this wont happen as Shaman)

2. it states his power is on the save level as Dark Phoenix.

also putting Sinestro against a team with the Silver Surfer is just bad luck. :( sorry man but i am interested as to how you will counter these points

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Responses to your Points

Here I'll respond to your points - then I'll post my counter strategy to your points.

Lol, dude, you are BFRing a guy who has teleported through multiverses? wait what? I propose a counter theory... you try to BFR Nate... he teleports back like a Boss.

I was going to because you stated nothing about that ability in your mini-respect thread of yours & I'm not too keen on Marvel High Tiers as I'm not a High Tier fan in general & I'm not much of a Marvel guy - if Nate's coming back into the fight then he's coming back only to get killed.

Nate traps Cyborg Supes in the time stream (for a little bit) and unlike Nate... Cyborg supes wont be coming back.

Curses - foiled again!

See, the Yellow Ring works essentially like a Green Ring but with fear instead of will. It's got some other differences that I won't go into just yet but one similar function is the ability to create wormholes or teleport.

Scan (1) shows Hal opening up a warp hole in space to travel through + Scan (2) shows Hal teleporting Barry via his ring without even being near him.

Now - those scans are of Hal but they're just to show that the rings do have these abilities. Cyborg Superman would be able to utilize his ring's teleportation functions to escape being trapped in the time stream, especially since the Ring is a piece of technology & Cyborg Superman is a highly advanced technopath who was able to manipulate the Source Wall.

ehem Surfer is a Master Energy Manipulator... what does that mean... your yellow rings will feed him energy. he will drain the rings energy. now i may be mistaken but that puts an end to Sinestro

This is always the argument when a Lantern is brought up against the Silver Surfer, the Lanterns are expert energy manipulators too.

Also - Sinestro's ring wouldn't just go from 100% to 0% in an instant - it'd take Surfer some time, time that he doesn't have due to Cyborg Superman being able to essentially stalemate him in H2H combat without the ring boost.

Surfer won't be able to drain BOTH rings by the time he's KO-ed by Cyborg Superman & Sinestro, even with his high level durability.

Scans show Cyborg Superman going against ROD Doomsday - dude was OP.

In the scans we see above - Cyborg Superman was able to blitz ROD Doomsday ( last scan ) and tear off a solid portion of his torso. Now I'd say that ROD Doomsday has some impressive durability but CS's strength & speed was able to clear right through him.

Add two Yellow Power Rings being used by incredibly powerful & experienced wielders ( Sinestro would be much more proficient with his ) and you've got a recipe for a KO (as we've seen Cyborg Superman 1HKO Superman with Heat Vision & beat him to a pulp with his Yellow Rings - he has the strength to beat Surfer).

ta da bye bye Sinestro. now we have an amped up Surfer... ready to manipulate the soul of Cyborg Superman

Sinestro wouldn't be out that easily - plus the dude's got his Power Batter packed away in a Pocket Dimension, all he'd have to do to recharge his ring is port himself there & then port back into the fight.

Sinestro isn't a rookie lantern who would easily fall prey to energy absorption.

this would be Surfer draining a sun so he is very capable of absorbing the rings energy... do you wanna make more duplicates for the Surfer to Drain? im down with it.

I'm sure that Surfer is fully capable of absorbing the ring's energy - he just wouldn't be able to do it in time for it to make a difference.

Sinestro easily has recharges avaliable for himself & Cyborg Superman should they need them - but the Sinestro & Cyborg Superman combo against Surfer would be enough of a physical bashing to KO Surfer.

no not really Sinestro is having trouble breathing right now and Cyborg supes is being double teamed. also Nate is Psionic Energy very different from Blue Superman this would not be applicable here.

Sinestro is perfectly fine - he has his power battery should he NEED a recharge.

As for the Psionic Energy - I don't see why it's different or why it can't be absorbed. I know that saying "Energy is Energy" is an incredibly broad and probably 'incorrect' statement - but it's still very possible for that Psionic energy to be absorbed.

Scans show Cyborg Superman fighting Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, and Eradicator. The main purpose of these scans is not to show how much of a boss Cyborg Superman is - but because he states he can create a weapon to take advantage of his foes weaknesses within the midst of battle.

Cyborg Superman's adaptability & technopathy would give him the ability to transform his own weaponry to being capable of harming Nate's Energy form or absorbing it.

Energy can be absorbed & psionic energy is no exception.

I propose a counter theory. Marvel Wins after Sinestro is drained of energy. Heres why your plan fails. My team absorbs energy, one member of your team is Energy based period. the other one can be lost in the time stream until we are ready for him.

1.) Both members of my team can recharge their Lantern Rings via Sinestro's power battery that he has hidden within a pocket dimension.

2.) Cyborg Superman physically matches Surfer - with Sinestro & the 2 ring boost it's a clear victory for CS & Sinestro.

3.) Both members of my team are capable of teleporting out of the time stream via Yellow Power Rings.

Surfer has the best Durability here

Ah yes - the man who had to BEG the Anti-Monitor for a chance at death [ and still didn't die ] isn't up to par with Surfer?

I'd say their tied in durability or that Cyborg Superman actually has a slight edge.

You now have a total of 0 yellow rings... they were drained

#RECHARGE

Nate can Telekinetically crush Cyborg Supes into a ball... this would count as an Incap. (kind of like cutting deadpools head off would count as an incap even though he could heal from it) or Surfer can manipulate his soul and fly into the sun where Surfer will be fine but CS soul would be less than fine (at least an incap)

Nate isn't telekinetically crushing anyone - if he attempts that then my Refraction perk will be used & he'll telekinetically crush himself.

Cyborg Superman has withstood an attack from the heat of the sun - see?

Scans show Cyborg Superman resisting the toasty

As for fighting on an Astral Plane // Soul Ripping - Boodikka once fought Cyborg Superman's soul & she thought she won...

Scans show why Boodikka was wrong.

.... turns out she hadn't.

Cyborg Superman shouldn't have to resist such an attack because I've never heard of Silver Surfer using a 'soul rip' in combat as an in-character attack, is this something he regularly does?

the way i see it is your guys arent even in the same league as my guys. maybe Cyborg Supes is but he is out classed in all areas by Nate Grey who has the power of the Phoenix without it being his host

Nate Grey seems to be lacking the speed to keep up with Sinestro or Cyborg Superman - honestly he appears to be the weak link.

He may have the 'Power of the Phoenix' but unless he's done anything impressive with it besides being shown burnt out by it's influence/power then I don't see it being a problem.

Wrap Up

I've read somewhere that Yellow Rings can enhance the powers of a Kyrptonian - if this is true then Cyborg Superman is getting an even greater power boost.

Sinestro is also incredibly powerful - and I haven't shown much for him yet so I will.

Scans show Sinestro's Shields withstanding a Planet Busting attack

His shields are strong enough to endure planet busting attacks - so he isn't just some rag doll for your team to play around with.

He's also got some pretty fantastic combat feats - you see, he wasn't considered one of the best GL's for nothin'.

Scans show Sinestro vs a variety of foes. First set of scans shows him fighting Kyle Rayner & Green Arrow, second set shows him going against Lobo, third set shows him going against the Qwardian Army & John Stewart - he practically 1 shotted the army.

With him manhandling Kyle - it's impressive. Typically people say a Kyle vs Surfer fight would be pretty good, even with Surfer taking a majority - it's still a wicked fight.

Now Sinestro was able to give Kyle a run for his money - so he's got the offensive down & while Sinestro wouldn't be able to solo Surfer he isn't alone in this fight, he's just there to tip the scales for Team DC.

If Nate goes for the insta kill via TK then the Refraction will send it back at Nate - thus he's getting hit with his own insta kill TK crushing attack.

My team combination & chemistry + my Perk makes my team IMHO - too much for yours to handle.

Nate appears to be the weak link but maybe you can prove me wrong & show me how much of a tough cookie he really is.

Anyways - I look forward to your response @kidman560

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@kidman560: @thetruebarryallen: threads closing tomorrow at 9 PM guys. put work in, debate..debate...debate, wrap things up. Don't do any weak sauce for my first tourney now.......you're my homeboys......

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#13  Edited By kidman560

@thetruebarryallen woah man notifications are really out of whack i didnt even see CA1s response

I was going to because you stated nothing about that ability in your mini-respect thread of yours & I'm not too keen on Marvel High Tiers as I'm not a High Tier fan in general & I'm not much of a Marvel guy - if Nate's coming back into the fight then he's coming back only to get killed.

tbh i havent posted allot about Nate that i could have... but it also happens to be that Nate is the most versatile here easily

See, the Yellow Ring works essentially like a Green Ring but with fear instead of will. It's got some other differences that I won't go into just yet but one similar function is the ability to create wormholes or teleport.

true they can and he could but thats essentially all the time needed for Silver Surfer to drain (i think you mentioned recharge but ill adress that later) Sinestro and X-man is more than capable of taking on Sinestro even if he does have a ring.

This is always the argument when a Lantern is brought up against the Silver Surfer, the Lanterns are expert energy manipulators too.

Also - Sinestro's ring wouldn't just go from 100% to 0% in an instant - it'd take Surfer some time, time that he doesn't have due to Cyborg Superman being able to essentially stalemate him in H2H combat without the ring boost.

Surfer won't be able to drain BOTH rings by the time he's KO-ed by Cyborg Superman & Sinestro, even with his high level durability.

Lanterns are but it is not in character for either to drain energy like so. I would also note that while both are strong they wont be able to just double team Silver Surfer... Nate is far to powerful for that. and neither is packing planet busting attacks (nor has either withstood those) Cyborg Superman has a healing factor but Sinestro does not.

Surfer along with his excellent defenses has another abilities like

1. Creating Clones that have even fooled Galactus (it says Galactus was only fooled because he was enraged but it doesnt matter its impressive)

2-3. he can go intangible.

not to mention we seem to be ignoring Nate Grey who possess more raw power than anyone else here.

In the scans we see above - Cyborg Superman was able to blitz ROD Doomsday ( last scan ) and tear off a solid portion of his torso. Now I'd say that ROD Doomsday has some impressive durability but CS's strength & speed was able to clear right through him.

Add two Yellow Power Rings being used by incredibly powerful & experienced wielders ( Sinestro would be much more proficient with his ) and you've got a recipe for a KO (as we've seen Cyborg Superman 1HKO Superman with Heat Vision & beat him to a pulp with his Yellow Rings - he has the strength to beat Surfer).

youre dealing with someone far more powerful and Versatile than both Doomsday and Superman combined, and we are still ignoring Nate Grey.

Sinestro wouldn't be out that easily - plus the dude's got his Power Batter packed away in a Pocket Dimension, all he'd have to do to recharge his ring is port himself there & then port back into the fight.

again this all takes time... he'll be out before he can recharge. without a charged Ring Nate Grey can easily put Sinestro down before he can recharge but your entire focus is on one of my members.

I'm sure that Surfer is fully capable of absorbing the ring's energy - he just wouldn't be able to do it in time for it to make a difference.

Sinestro easily has recharges avaliable for himself & Cyborg Superman should they need them - but the Sinestro & Cyborg Superman combo against Surfer would be enough of a physical bashing to KO Surfer.

again Nate is still here (ill get to why in a sec)

Cyborg Superman's adaptability & technopathy would give him the ability to transform his own weaponry to being capable of harming Nate's Energy form or absorbing it.

Energy can be absorbed & psionic energy is no exception.

Psionic Energy is vastly different than other forms... it is every bit the exception except for one thing it falls under the class of Energy. he also has to tag Nate.

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reacted enough for Joesph (basically Magneto) and as im sure you know hes reacted fast enough for Ares (who has taken on Sentry and did quite well) so... im confused as to where hes getting this slow part but regardless it wont matter. hes here he says (his shields and speed will be more than enough to protect him)

Ah yes - the man who had to BEG the Anti-Monitor for a chance at death [ and still didn't die ] isn't up to par with Surfer?

I'd say their tied in durability or that Cyborg Superman actually has a slight edge.

he doesnt have to die for the win

Nate isn't telekinetically crushing anyone - if he attempts that then my Refraction perk will be used & he'll telekinetically crush himself.

Cyborg Superman has withstood an attack from the heat of the sun - see?

thanks i was waiting for you to use that. Nate Grey wont telekinetially crush him self because he doesnt have a solid form. we will however than use our Time Freeze to do whatever we need if you still have charged rings then we take those 2 seconds is a long time for us, and Nate Will touch Cyborg Supes which will Cause

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so now he knows all about Cyborg Supes and possible what will happen next.

he may also search his mind for anything like

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he is not mind wiping nor is he manipulating molecules here... he is using psionic energy (tell me other forms of energy can do this) to make your brain think its happening... pretty cool huh... now i cant use this to one shot you but lets say im sure Hank has broken a bone or something like that. His Brain will make him think hes crippled. good luck fighting with that.

His shields are strong enough to endure planet busting attacks - so he isn't just some rag doll for your team to play around with.

He's also got some pretty fantastic combat feats - you see, he wasn't considered one of the best GL's for nothin'.

with his ring sure he is... but without it he isnt quite as durable... and his shield is energy and Surfer manipulates and drains energy.

If Nate goes for the insta kill via TK then the Refraction will send it back at Nate - thus he's getting hit with his own insta kill TK crushing attack.

As ive explained Nate is energy and refracting a TK attack on him wont do much especially since crushing him wouldnt do anything (crush energy and its still Energy) but we will throw up our time stop and Nate will get to work

My team combination & chemistry + my Perk makes my team IMHO - too much for yours to handle.

your perk does nothing (in the instance of what you are using it for). your team is comprised of hot heads, and your combination is all relying on one weapon... a yellow ring of energy.

Nate is a man comprised of Energy, who can go intangible, teleport, and his shields are insane. yet you are one shoting him? it doesnt connect. your entire post was directed towards silver surfer... are you trying to give Nate time to concentrate? giving him time to concentrate is bad. he is only a weak as his mind allows him to be.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@kidman560: You're finally back - fantastic. This may be my last post for this Round since voting ends tomorrow & I've gotta visit the hospital for an echo-cardiogram.

TTBA Responses & Counters

In this section I'll respond to what you've brought up in terms of questions or statements.

tbh i havent posted allot about Nate that i could have... but it also happens to be that Nate is the most versatile here easily

Well then - that should explain why I haven't brought Nate into the battle equation all that much - you've been leaving him out in your posts quite a lot & not expanding on what he's doing or what you're doing with him.

You talk about his abilities slightly but then you haven't done anything with him.

true they can and he could but thats essentially all the time needed for Silver Surfer to drain (i think you mentioned recharge but ill adress that later) Sinestro and X-man is more than capable of taking on Sinestro even if he does have a ring.

You'll have to convince me that Nate Grey is going to be able to trap Cyborg Superman within the time stream as it's not something that I see happening in this battle - has Nate ever trapped someone within the time stream as a combat move or from a long distance?

I'd love to see some X-Man combat feats because most of what you've mentioned about his involvement in this fight seems to be some speculation from his actual shown feats.

Lanterns are but it is not in character for either to drain energy like so. I would also note that while both are strong they wont be able to just double team Silver Surfer... Nate is far to powerful for that. and neither is packing planet busting attacks (nor has either withstood those) Cyborg Superman has a healing factor but Sinestro does not.

They would be completely able to double team Silver Surfer - I still haven't seen anything from Nate suggesting that he'll be much of a problem to either Sinestro OR Cyborg Superman.

Neither may be packing 'Planet Busting' attacks - but both were able to withstand them.

I've already shown the scans of Sinestro withstanding a Planet Busting attack with his shields - and it took a Galaxy Busting attack from the entirety of the GLC to put Cyborg Superman down.

Scans show Cyborg Superman willingly letting himself be trapped within the GLC attack because at this point in his life he was miserable and just wanted to die [ because nothing could kill him ] and his body was destroyed but his head remained and the Willhunters found him & activated the machine that his consciousness was in - Cyborg Superman withstood the galaxy busting attack.

So Cyborg Superman & Sinestro are easily packing the durability required for this fight.

Surfer along with his excellent defenses has another abilities like

1. Creating Clones that have even fooled Galactus (it says Galactus was only fooled because he was enraged but it doesnt matter its impressive). 2-3. he can go intangible. Not to mention we seem to be ignoring Nate Grey who possess more raw power than anyone else here.

Cool - I can list the vast amount of abilities that Cyborg Superman & Sinestro have but they're not that vital to list unless you're going to use them to impact this battle somehow.

As for us ignoring Nate Grey - it's not my job to include him in my posts with a main focus if you've been ignoring him in your own posts, you've gotta show more for him dooood.

youre dealing with someone far more powerful and Versatile than both Doomsday and Superman combined, and we are still ignoring Nate Grey.

Give me reasons to focus more on Nate then - it's your job to debate for the character, not mine!

again this all takes time... he'll be out before he can recharge. without a charged Ring Nate Grey can easily put Sinestro down before he can recharge but your entire focus is on one of my members.

Sinestro won't be out before he can recharge - as I've mentioned earlier [ several times ] Cyborg Superman is ENOUGH to hold off Surfer.

So Surfer's going to be trying to absorb all the energy from Sinestro while he's getting beat on by Cyborg Superman?

Surfer's going to have his hands full - and Nate can't drain Sinestro with his psionic energy nor would Sinestro give him the chance.

The reason we've been focusing on Surfer so much is because once he's down - Nate doesn't stand a chance - and Cyborg Superman and Sinestro can put Surfer down faster than Surfer can try to drain Sinestro & leave him for Nate.

Psionic Energy is vastly different than other forms... it is every bit the exception except for one thing it falls under the class of Energy. he also has to tag Nate.

Psionic Energy is a form of energy - it is not VASTLY different from other forms - it is easily possible to absorb Psionic Energy if you have the correct

Psionic Energy is energy that is used in an attack such as a telekinetic attack - the same types of attacks you're having Nate use.

reacted enough for Joesph (basically Magneto) and as im sure you know hes reacted fast enough for Ares (who has taken on Sentry and did quite well) so... im confused as to where hes getting this slow part but regardless it wont matter. hes here he says (his shields and speed will be more than enough to protect him)

Still seems like the weakest link here - that's only ONE scan that doesn't have any context behind it nor does it show an impressive 'speed feat' in my books - maybe it's impressive to the voters but IDK.

Nate Grey is currently [ from evidence in this debate ] the slowest in this battle from what I've seen and doesn't have what it takes to keep up with Sinestro or Cyborg Superman in a battle.

he doesnt have to die for the win

Truth - but I don't see you bringing him down with anything you've shown so far.

thanks i was waiting for you to use that. Nate Grey wont telekinetially crush him self because he doesnt have a solid form. we will however than use our Time Freeze to do whatever we need if you still have charged rings then we take those 2 seconds is a long time for us, and Nate Will touch Cyborg Supes which will Cause

This is false - Nate is effectively killing himself via the TK Crush that you claimed you were using on my team that I sent back with Refraction.

A telekinetic attack is a psychic attack that utilizes psychic energy in a physical form - essentially the energy that Nate himself is made up of is the energy he uses to direct psychic attacks.

If you took a very big rock - and dropped it from a very high distance onto another large rock - chances are fragments of the rock will shatter off - even with them being made of the same substances the force applied is enough to damage the substances.

So if you're using a very forceful telekinetic attack [ one that you claimed would 1HKO Cyborg Superman ] and I'm using the perk I was granted to use that attack DIRECTLY on the person who cast it [ Nate ] then it'll be damaging even to those made out of psychic energy. This is because Nate is made of the same energy he's using in his assault - and the force he's applying is enough to damage himself.

So currently - Nate isn't touching Cyborg Superman; he's actually just killing himself, thanks for that.

Nate's out of the picture - now you've got Surfer vs Cyborg Superman + Sinestro, the fight I've been focusing on for the majority of this debate.

so now he knows all about Cyborg Supes and possible what will happen next.

1.) Nate isn't touching Cyborg Superman - he's dead from his own attack.

2.) Nate say's "Maybe" when asked if he could suggest it's future.

he is not mind wiping nor is he manipulating molecules here... he is using psionic energy (tell me other forms of energy can do this) to make your brain think its happening... pretty cool huh... now i cant use this to one shot you but lets say im sure Hank has broken a bone or something like that. His Brain will make him think hes crippled. good luck fighting with that.

Sorry to break it to you - but even a broken arm wouldn't be that crippling to a man who can rebuild himself.

Cyborg Superman is just a robot - he doesn't actually FEEL anything.

Anyways - Nate isn't getting the chance to do that & I've already explained why.

your perk does nothing (in the instance of what you are using it for). your team is comprised of hot heads, and your combination is all relying on one weapon... a yellow ring of energy.

My perk does EXACTLY what I need it to do - it's KILLING one of your members.

Nate is made of the same energy that is used in TK attacks - it can damage him & in this case it will CRUSH and KILL him.

My team is not comprised of 'Hot Heads' my team is comprised of incredibly smart & talented combatants - just dubbing them 'hot heads' is severely underrating them.

My combination isn't RELYING on ONE WEAPON.

I've shown you scans of Cyborg Superman contending with Surfer - I've also shown you scans of Cyborg Superman being able to make weapons out of his body that target the specific weaknesses of his foes.

Cyborg Superman is a living weapon - his Yellow Ring is only there to give him an even greater power boost to dominate Surfer but by no means is my entire team relying on one weapon.

Nate is a man comprised of Energy, who can go intangible, teleport, and his shields are insane. yet you are one shoting him? it doesnt connect. your entire post was directed towards silver surfer... are you trying to give Nate time to concentrate? giving him time to concentrate is bad. he is only a weak as his mind allows him to be.

Nate is a man comprised of Energy who - under your direction & debating - is using a telekinetic crush attack on Cyborg Superman that is being directed back at Nate.

The attack WILL harm & kill Nate - he's not immune to damage because he's an energy form - he can still be harmed by the same energy he's made of OR Cyborg Superman can just easily absorb him - Psionic Energy isn't a get out of jail free card, dude.

You claimed you were going to 1 shot a man who withstood a galaxy busting attack with some TK - what?

My post is directed towards Surfer because thus far & throughout this debate you haven't used Nate offensively in any aspect that is damaging or concerning to my team - he is getting killed via the Refraction Perk because you were claiming he would use enough force behind a TK Crush to KILL Cyborg Superman.

He is as only as weak as your posts make him out to be.

I wish you the best of luck with your response - this is my last post for this round - voters be rad.

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cosmicallyaware1

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@kidman560: @thetruebarryallen: alright guys, thread closed from posting now. gonna edit title to open voting. give your shout outs/tags for voting.....best of luck to both, good debate.

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cosmicallyaware1

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@kidman560: @thetruebarryallen: alright guys, voting closed at end of night tonight. no votes so far tho, WTF!!!?? pull them votes in, harass people!!!

the vote count as it stands now.........

kidman560: 0

TTBA: 0

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Sy8000

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@thetruebarryallen: gets my vote but it was damn close.

His points felt better supported and he made sure to use both his characters to the fullest, something I don't feel Kidman did.

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cosmicallyaware1

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BeaconofStrength

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I know I'm late to the party, but I think @thetruebarryallen did slightly better. Both arguments were great though~

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@kidman560: @cosmicallyaware1: @thetruebarryallen: Barry gets may vote

At first I though Kidman was pulling a lea but then as TTBA stated he would not be able to compete with CS and Sinestro at the same time In fact he showed that in his fight with Surfer non amped he was able too keep the pressure on Sufer so I agree that SS wouldn't have any chance at draining one while the others years him apart.

Also you kept saying Nate would just stop them but you didn't show us how he would in fact you barley used Nate and when you did it was too tell us his abilities you never mentioned what he would do in battle.

Both of you debated well but Barry was just all around better. Well done guys

And remember to vote on mine :)

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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Bumpin' this for voters to see - come one come all - vote for whoever you thought did the better job in this situation!

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#23  Edited By FukYouRenchamp

@thetruebarryallen: you take it. Kidman didn't really explore what Nate could really do.

OP says no insta kill or time travel or manipulation. Kidman used all of those

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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@pr0metheus: Thanks for taking the time to read this & vote :D

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cosmicallyaware1

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#25  Edited By cosmicallyaware1

@kidman560: @thetruebarryallen:

the vote count as it stands now.........

kidman560: 0

TTBA: 5

okay guys, all done. and TTBA advances to the next round...........................