Buffy vs Angel

Rules: 
 
- Morals OFF   
-Current versions of both characters, Angel as seen currently in "Angel & Faith" Buffy as seen in "Buffy Season 9"
-Angel is NOT Angelus, but he wants to kill Buffy 
-Buffy wants to kill Angel as well 
-Fight takes place at midnight  
-Fighters start off ten feet apart from one another.
-Location: 
  

Is this going off of comics or tv series? Though I always preferred Angel over Buffy, she was still good though.

@The Stegman said:

@Wolfrazer: Both, it's current versions of each, Buffy as she currently is in Season Nine, Angel as he currently is in Angel & Faith.

Buffy already defeated Angel - good and bad - on many occasions. Angel vs. Spike would be more fair and more interesting

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. 
 
Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

@Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority

i think buffy would win. she generally seems to be a bit more skilled combat wise. 

Hasn't this been done? I think buffy would win both rounds.

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority 

@Picard:  
 

Voorhees100 said:

Round One- Angel, without weapons, I don't see any way for Buffy to put him down, he's far more durable than she is, while in vice versa, Angel has his weapon on him at all times. Round Two- Buffy, that Scythe is no joke.

Sorry, but did you even saw BTVS? Episode Innocence - fight in Sunnydale mall. First she clearly won the fight, then she kicked him in the nuts and left. Episode Passion - fight in abandoned factory. Again she won in a fight. She left him to save Giles. Episode Killed by death - fight at cemetery. Badly sick Buffy confronts Angelus and she loses. She is saved by Scoobies. Episode Becoming part 2 - fight at Angel's mansion. She bested him in a sword fight, and was forced to send him to hell. Episode Beauty and the Beasts - fight in woods. Buffy actually manage to knock Angel out. So As you see she takes majority 

Yes, i've seen every episode, but I think we are remembering it differently. 
 
1. In Innocence, They fight in the mall but she clearly DID NOT win the fight, they were evenly matched, Buffy kicked him into a plant, he got up and said "You can't do it, can you? you can't kill me?'' she then kicked him in the groin and walked away, that is not a win, that is her getting an upper hand and conceding the fight. 
 
2. In Passion. The whole entire point of the episode was Angelus tormenting and getting in Buffy's head, he wasn't even fighting back in their confrontation, he was tanking her blows and even laughed when she knocked him down before asking will she "Let her old man (Giles) burn" she again, concedes the fight and leaves. 
 
3. In Becoming. They are evenly matched in fighting ability, Willow restores his soul, he STOPS FIGHTING, and is disoriented, she then stabs him with the sword while his guard is down and pushes him into the hell portal, she didn't beat him, he was barely even aware of where he was. 
 
4. In Beauty & the Beasts.  She beat a feral, mindless Angel who once again had no idea where he was, and was in shock from spending 100 years in hell. That's like me saying "Oh Robin Wood beat Mindless Spike to a pulp, so that should count"  Buffy has never, beaten Angel when he is actually fighting seriously, each time they fought he was either toying with her, or didn't want to actually kill her. 

@charlieboy said:

i think buffy would win. she generally seems to be a bit more skilled combat wise.

I believe she is.

ends up in sex. The viewer wins

@Job: I agree with ya

buffy stomps hard.......LOL

@Job: I thought voorhees was u on an alt account since you love jason alot.

Buffy.

id say its more or less of a tie . i mean angel and buffy are somewhat equel in terms of fighting skill and both are skilled stratagists.ut angel can take a few more heavier hits the n budffy due to the fact he is undead. also angel more recently seems alot more competent then buffy.in soem areas. id say more angel then buffy. but in the true win stratagy and endurance prevails

@hyperbeing said:

id say its more or less of a tie . i mean angel and buffy are somewhat equel in terms of fighting skill and both are skilled stratagists.ut angel can take a few more heavier hits the n budffy due to the fact he is undead. also angel more recently seems alot more competent then buffy.in soem areas. id say more angel then buffy. but in the true win stratagy and endurance prevails

Good point, but way i see it... I like Angel alot better... better show, but Buffy would take this.

angel has the advantage of being undead if bufft breaks his neck he will be stunnded a little if he breaks buffies neck she will e diead. also angel has more knowledgeo n buffy fighting style then she does of his fighting style.

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

@Job said:

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

I think you're just as guilty of slanting the truth as your opponents. In "Innocence", Buffy won after an extremely hard fight and because Angelus was more concerned with goading her than killing her; in "Passion", Buffy won because Angelus had just been thoroughly clobbered by a pissed off Giles and his Louisville slugger; in "Killed By Death", Angelus is about to kill a sick Buffy before Xander and company intervene; in "Go Fish", the fight is a stalemate-- Buffy kicks him in the head, Angel picks up Gage and throws him at her, knocking her down before retreating; in "Becoming, Part I", their fight is again a stalemate, with Angelus having the upper hand-- though neither of them is trying to kill the other. Buffy realizes this and retreats. In "Becoming, Part II", Angel wins the duel and has her on her ass before taunting her into rage.

Angel is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with Buffy and conceivably killing her; the problem is that Angelus likes to run his mouth. Since I assume we set such PIS aside in versus fights, this is a very close one indeed.

As far as the rest is concerned, Angel's defeat by Kendra is suspect when you consider the fact that she was trying to kill him whereas we don't know if he was trying to kill her; in fact, he only threatens her after she threatens Buffy, at which point the fight is already over.

With Faith, the first time they fight is in "Revelations" in which Angel is still weakened tremendously from his time in the hell dimension (Buffy comments on Angel's poor condition during the events of "Lover's Walk", one episode later). They clash again in "Enemies", and Faith throws Angel into the onrushing company of Xander, Willow, and others-- it isn't a fight at all. When they fight in "Five By Five", Angel restrains himself the entire time because he knows Faith is essentially trying to commit suicide by vampire. In "Orpheus", Angelus ultimately defeated Faith in their fight (again, due to taunting); but had both she and Wesley at his mercy early on and could have killed her with the shotgun before tossing it aside.

And Dana is the most silly example of them all; Angel spent the entire episode trying to persuade Spike that Dana should be captured and treated, not killed. When they fight at the end of "Damage", he ultimately overcomes her and has Wesley and the Wolfram & Hart strike team tranquilize her.

Trying to remove context from the duels is pointless. There is pretty much no encounter that I remember in which Angel lost to a Slayer by virtue of being completely outclassed; he either restrained himself because of moral concerns or, as Angelus, was preoccupied with tormenting them verbally.

Angel still loses, but it is (as it has always been between the two of them at full strength), extremely close.

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

If neither of them have killed the other than we'd trully will never know who would win by a battle until death match will we? I agree buffy would win hands down, but if people give you the same arguments " ignore " them even though i have a hard time doing it....its just a debate don't get upset over it buddy.

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

We've already established that you chronically and compulsively distort and disregard context when it pertains to Angel (maybe the problem is that people aren't picking Angel because they like him, but rather you vote against Angel because you dislike him?). As I said, if Angelus wanted Buffy dead, why didn't he kill her in her sleep? For all her Slayer senses, he was able to break into her room, sit on her bed, touch her face, and even take the time to draw her (half hour, hours?). Angel's aptitude for stealth transcends Buffy's skills at detection. When he had her disarmed in "Becoming, Part II", why not stab her in the face immediately after disarming her? Or when he had Faith on her ass in "Orpheus", why not shoot her with the shotgun? Or is Faith bullet proof?

Leave your Angel-hate at the door and start using your head. I agree that he loses, but you're exaggerating to the extreme pretending that it would be, in any way, a stomp.

@Job said:

...sigh....Buffy has beaten angel every single time they have fought....he has lost to EVERY slayer he has ever fought.....buffy has killed thousands of vampires..some older and more powerful than Angel...people seem to be picking angel just because they like

I think you're just as guilty of slanting the truth as your opponents. In "Innocence", Buffy won after an extremely hard fight and because Angelus was more concerned with goading her than killing her; in "Passion", Buffy won because Angelus had just been thoroughly clobbered by a pissed off Giles and his Louisville slugger; in "Killed By Death", Angelus is about to kill a sick Buffy before Xander and company intervene; in "Go Fish", the fight is a stalemate-- Buffy kicks him in the head, Angel picks up Gage and throws him at her, knocking her down before retreating; in "Becoming, Part I", their fight is again a stalemate, with Angelus having the upper hand-- though neither of them is trying to kill the other. Buffy realizes this and retreats. In "Becoming, Part II", Angel wins the duel and has her on her ass before taunting her into rage.

Angel is more than capable of going toe-to-toe with Buffy and conceivably killing her; the problem is that Angelus likes to run his mouth. Since I assume we set such PIS aside in versus fights, this is a very close one indeed.

As far as the rest is concerned, Angel's defeat by Kendra is suspect when you consider the fact that she was trying to kill him whereas we don't know if he was trying to kill her; in fact, he only threatens her after she threatens Buffy, at which point the fight is already over.

With Faith, the first time they fight is in "Revelations" in which Angel is still weakened tremendously from his time in the hell dimension (Buffy comments on Angel's poor condition during the events of "Lover's Walk", one episode later). They clash again in "Enemies", and Faith throws Angel into the onrushing company of Xander, Willow, and others-- it isn't a fight at all. When they fight in "Five By Five", Angel restrains himself the entire time because he knows Faith is essentially trying to commit suicide by vampire. In "Orpheus", Angelus ultimately defeated Faith in their fight (again, due to taunting); but had both she and Wesley at his mercy early on and could have killed her with the shotgun before tossing it aside.

And Dana is the most silly example of them all; Angel spent the entire episode trying to persuade Spike that Dana should be captured and treated, not killed. When they fight at the end of "Damage", he ultimately overcomes her and has Wesley and the Wolfram & Hart strike team tranquilize her.

Trying to remove context from the duels is pointless. There is pretty much no encounter that I remember in which Angel lost to a Slayer by virtue of being completely outclassed; he either restrained himself because of moral concerns or, as Angelus, was preoccupied with tormenting them verbally.

Angel still loses, but it is (as it has always been between the two of them at full strength), extremely close.

@Job said:

@G1d3on said:

@Picard said:

@G1d3on said:

To be fair, it was never Angelus's M.O. to kill Buffy-- he never went all out and preferred to take the opportunity to taunt and torment her during the fight rather than go for the kill. On the other hand, Buffy has a slight strength advantage by Angel's own admission. She wins, but it's a close one.

Yes, but if his M.O. was just to torment Buffy and he could kick her ass he would do that every time they fought just to cause her physical pain, and to show he how helpless she was against him. He didn't so apparently he coudn't do it.

What? That doesn't follow; In "Passion", we see that Angel has crept into Buffy's room at night, sat on her bed, and physically caressed her. He could have stabbed her to death, shot her, broken her neck, or otherwise attacked before she could react-- if he wanted to cause purely physical damage, he had the means and opportunity to do so on more than one occasion. As has been pointed out exhaustively, Angelus always went for the head games.

It doesn't mean he'll win this fight. As I said, Buffy has a strength advantage and she'll ultimately win, but it's not going to be a walk in the park.

Im so sick of reading this same argument.OH he played head games so he wasn't really serious..right i guess he wasn't serious about killing buffy when he tried to stab her in the face with a sword.....was disarmed...and then was about to get his head cut off. I guess he could have killed buffy when she came and saved giles...oh wait..no..he got his face beat in then too. Angel didnt kill buffy right off the back because he wanted to torture her...lol....Buffy didnt kill him off the back because she loved him...she had 4 different chances.....angel cant beat buffy..he couldn't beat kendra..he couldnt beat faith,..he needed a whole hit squad just to capture dana.......buffy stomps....the end.

We've already established that you chronically and compulsively distort and disregard context when it pertains to Angel (maybe the problem is that people aren't picking Angel because they like him, but rather you vote against Angel because you dislike him?). As I said, if Angelus wanted Buffy dead, why didn't he kill her in her sleep? For all her Slayer senses, he was able to break into her room, sit on her bed, touch her face, and even take the time to draw her (half hour, hours?). Angel's aptitude for stealth transcends Buffy's skills at detection. When he had her disarmed in "Becoming, Part II", why not stab her in the face immediately after disarming her? Or when he had Faith on her ass in "Orpheus", why not shoot her with the shotgun? Or is Faith bullet proof?

Leave your Angel-hate at the door and start using your head. I agree that he loses, but you're exaggerating to the extreme pretending that it would be, in any way, a stomp.

@Job said:

angel states he intended to kill faith

No he did not, he was going to help Faith. I'm not saying Angel wins here, but Angel fighting in Five by Five was definitely not bloodthirsty.

@Job said:

angel states he intended to kill faith

No he did not, he was going to help Faith.

@Job: What would you do if they made a movie about this and Angel Killed Buffy? Chopped her up into tiny pieces and then fed her to the birds? Would you lose sleep over it?

@Job:

"She needs help."
"Help?! Do you have any idea what she did to me?!"
"Yes."
"Do you care?"
"She wants to change, she has a chance to."

Besides, a bloodlusted Angel looks more like their encounter from Release.

@Job:

"She needs help."
"Help?! Do you have any idea what she did to me?!"
"Yes."
"Do you care?"
"She wants to change, she has a chance to."

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, I see an Angel pissed off at Wesley for letting Faith reach such a point, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire episode Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

LOL I know it was a joke......... I was doing it to see what Job would say.

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Revenge_Of_Chucky said:

He ignores me again. oh well...........Im outta here...

Angel Stomps Buffy real Hard.

He doesn't do that either.

LOL I know it was a joke......... I was doing it to see what Job would say.

Okay...good lol

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

No you wouldnt...i mean Wesley clearly states he thinks angel is going to kill Faith...Angel states he will give her what she wants (death) and then goes hunting her....... yes she was shouting fight back because he knew if she wanted tokill him..he would have been dead. Once again...this is the end...of the episode..this has nothing to do with his mindset before and during the fight..which was to get even.......she attacked them because she knew if she did..he'd kill her....and once again...which he was going to do until the end.....im not going to sit here and argue with you...wes and angel discussion clearl showed angel wanting her dead... changing his mind in the last 10 seconds of the fight doesn't mean anything other than.....he changed his mind at the lat 20 seconds of the fight. Im discussing this..if you disagree....k

Angel wasn't trying, and again the only thing your quote showed was Angel telling Wesley it's his fault that Faith can't trust anybody. He never entered that fight intending to kill her, otherwise he would have landed plenty of more blows. He was never in the game, that's why Faith kept trying. If you disagree, then fine. I said what I needed to.

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: I don't see a bloodlusted Angel there, and besides that doesn't change the fact that Angel went into the fight not bloodlusted. He knew what she wanted, that's why he didn't try.

"Nice try Faith. I know what you want, and I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna make it easy for ya."

And it was pretty much confirmed by Faith throughout the fight that Angel wasn't trying..actually throughout the entire show Angel wasn't trying. Her shouts of "Fight back!" and attacking Cordelia and Wesley in the first place to get Angel "in the game".

No you wouldnt...i mean Wesley clearly states he thinks angel is going to kill Faith...Angel states he will give her what she wants (death) and then goes hunting her....... yes she was shouting fight back because he knew if she wanted tokill him..he would have been dead. Once again...this is the end...of the episode..this has nothing to do with his mindset before and during the fight..which was to get even.......she attacked them because she knew if she did..he'd kill her....and once again...which he was going to do until the end.....im not going to sit here and argue with you...wes and angel discussion clearl showed angel wanting her dead... changing his mind in the last 10 seconds of the fight doesn't mean anything other than.....he changed his mind at the lat 20 seconds of the fight. Im discussing this..if you disagree....k

Angel wasn't trying, and again the only thing your quote showed was Angel telling Wesley it's his fault that Faith can't trust anybody. He never entered that fight intending to kill her, otherwise he would have landed plenty of more blows. He was never in the game, that's why Faith kept trying. If you disagree, then fine. I said what I needed to.

One is a Vampire.
The Other is a Vampire Slayer.
Do the Math.  
 
Buffy Wins.

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive and refused to try. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after (literally right after) the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.

"You didn't shoot to kill, we're gonna have to up the stakes, get you in the game a little."

@Job said:

the end

Dialogue >>>personal opinion

I concur

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.

Faith dominated angel in fight 1.......and fight 2......the end.


yup she gave him again stated if he didnt go for the kill she would kill him..left.....what was some of that dialogue?

\

FAITH
Dude, I'm gettin paid! They hate you
almost as much as I do.ANGEL
Did it ever occur to you this might
be more fun for me? Nope that doesn't sound like a guy looking for vengeance Yes i heard you the first 665464 times...Angel wanted to save faith..so he planned on barely defending himself and getting beaten to a bloody pulp.

Instead of killing her like you claim he wanted to? You already admitted that he barely defended himself. His heart was never into it. And during the fight "Come on Angel! I thought you were bad!" "Fight back!" "I'm evil!" etc. He wouldn't kill her, he wasn't bloodlusted in Five by Five. That's all my point is, you can't say a fight between Faith and Angel with both of them trying would go down like Five by Five, because Angel wasn't trying to kill Faith. Whether Angel or Faith would win is an entirely different story.

What does Faith have to do with anything?

Buffy has fought, and defeated both of them several times.

I'm not sure the point of this battle.

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Job: And your excuse for the second fight with Faith when he was winning 90% of the time?

Second fight? five by five was their second fight...and she dominated him I assume you mean when he was angelus....the excuse would b 1. She wanted him alive 2.She was still injured from the beast3. She was on a magical drug that was compared to heroin. 4. LOL she still beat his face in

Once, when she flew into a rage. That fight was Angel's. And I could say the same for why Faith dominated, he wanted her alive. He wouldn't kill her or do you not recall when right after the Wesley altercation you quoted, she gave him a gun.

Faith dominated angel in fight 1.......and fight 2......the end.


yup she gave him again stated if he didnt go for the kill she would kill him..left.....what was some of that dialogue?

\

FAITH
Dude, I'm gettin paid! They hate you
almost as much as I do.ANGEL
Did it ever occur to you this might
be more fun for me? Nope that doesn't sound like a guy looking for vengeance Yes i heard you the first 665464 times...Angel wanted to save faith..so he planned on barely defending himself and getting beaten to a bloody pulp.

Instead of killing her like you claim he wanted to? You already admitted that he barely defended himself, and that his heart was never into it. And during the fight "Come on Angel! I thought you were bad!" "Fight back!" "I'm evil!" etc. He wouldn't kill her, he wasn't bloodlusted in Five by Five. That's all my point is, you can't say a fight between Faith and Angel with both of them trying would go down like Five by Five, because Angel wasn't trying to kill Faith.