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#1 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

- In character.

- Standard Equip.

- Standard elimination rules apply.

No Caption Provided

- Fight takes place in hells kitchen.

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2, I do believe.

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#3 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 rather easily.

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#4 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

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#5 Edited by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a toss up. I think it's 50/50.

Team 1 Winning Scenario:

Bucky

Black tarantula has tanked too many bullets in his encounters. He'll think Bucky's handgun is a normal one, and it's not. If Bucky uses his normal rounds that KO'd Ares then BT could get KO'd. If Bucky uses his explosive rounds, then it would blow BT up like if he had a grenade inside of him.

Daredevil and Bucky are about equal in the skill department, although DD has his super senses, Bucky's arm and its weaponry plus the HG and shield put Bucky above DD's senses and his batons. Bucky's suit is more advanced than DD, it is impact resistant and bullet proof giving him higher durability than DD as well. So he'll be able to take more punches form DD, and DD can get one shotted by Bucky.

Wolverine

In this fight Wolverine has adamantium. Both are equal in skill but not in durability due to Logan's adamantium. Logan can potentially tank blows and decapitate BT.

Wolverine honestly beats DD due to his durability and healing factor.

Team 2 winning Scenario

Black Tarantula

If Black Tarantula gets past Bucky's shield, gun and arm he could potentially one shot him even with the impact resistant suit. Lets not forget his eyeblast and speed advantage.

Black Tarantula has the strength, speed and martial arts skill to subdue Logan along with his eye blast. If BT is smart, he will do what cap did to Logan and crush his tendons in his wrist rendering his claws useless. He could potentially BFR Logan as well.

Dare Devil

Not the weakest of the four as he is about Bucky's equal, but at the most disadvantage in weaponry. Sure he has great senses but he doesn't have a strength like Bucky's arm, a healing factor like logans or any kind of projectile to keep either of team 1 at bay. But I will write a scenario I can see happening.

Against Bucky, DD could possibly catch the shield, use it to deflect Bucky's bullets and brace himself from Bucky's arm and get in for a hit.

Against Logan, he will have to rely on his martial arts skill with nerve strikes, throat strikes and hitting him in sensitive areas in the head like the temple, eyes and ears.

My personal verdict:

I will give it to Team 1 due to Bucky's HG having Ares winding bullets and explosive rounds along with Bucky's marksmanship and Logan's extreme durability with his adamantium. Team 1 just has the technology benefit because of Bucky and the durability for Logan to last against BT until Bucky loads a explosive round in BT's back and Logan decapitates him.

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#6 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm, I don't know if I agree that it's easy.

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#7 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@HigorM said:

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

Daredevil is a skilled enough fighter to beat Wolverine or Bucky in a good fight. Black Tarantula is the least skilled character here, but he is also the strongest, the most powerful, the most durable, and has a healing factor that is AT LEAST as good as Wolverine's.
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#8 Edited by DrRenekton (269 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@HigorM said:

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

Daredevil is a skilled enough fighter to beat Wolverine or Bucky in a good fight. Black Tarantula is the least skilled character here, but he is also the strongest, the most powerful, the most durable, and has a healing factor that is AT LEAST as good as Wolverine's.

Not to mention has lasers.

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#9 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Logan has exhibited a much higher healing factor, honestly, and I think BT has been more consistent in his skill showings than Logan but both Matt and BT should have a really difficult time KOing Logan. I do give the edge to team two, but I really don't think they win easily.

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#10 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:
I'd say Logan has exhibited a much higher healing factor, honestly, and I think BT has been more consistent in his skill showings than Logan but both Matt and BT should have a really difficult time KOing Logan. I do give the edge to team two, but I really don't think they win easily.
DD dropped Logan with a throat punch. And BT has eye lasers :P
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#11 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.

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#12 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P
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#13 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

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#14 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.
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#15 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

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#16 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

Allows half his torso to be blown off by a grenade...
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#17 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

Bucky has dealt with Super powered foes with a depowered arm. He's also done well against people with Eye beams, this was after he fought in a 2 month gauntlet, with a werebear, the titanium man and this fatso...

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#18 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7661 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@HigorM said:

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

Daredevil is a skilled enough fighter to beat Wolverine or Bucky in a good fight. Black Tarantula is the least skilled character here, but he is also the strongest, the most powerful, the most durable, and has a healing factor that is AT LEAST as good as Wolverine's.

There is no world in which Daredevil beats Wolverine. (Garth Ennis karate throat chop aside.)

Logan has DD beat in all areas.

We often take powersets into account on the Vine when separating PIS from probability do we not? Along with the greater consistency of feats? Well, Logan is at least on DD's level skill wise. I do not think many would dispute this. He is touted as a 1-2 tonner. Heals from soaking hundreds of bullets in seconds. Has adamantium laced bones upon which DD (a peak human) should seriously hurt his fist should he tap Logan in the jaw and repeatedly tanks Hulk level hay-makers besides.

Seriously doubt DD would come close to winning a majority here. Almost as bad IMO as stating DD holds a majority over Spider-Man. After all, he's KO'd Spider-Man before has he not?

And do you have feats that put BT's healing factor anywhere near Wolverine's? I'd like to hear of his higher end feats - pretty sure I can make a comprehensive list of Logan's that would easily trump them.

Bucky would give DD hell too. I have Bucky at 50/50 with Daredevil. Wolverine taking an easy 7-8/10 win over Daredevil and 6/10 over BT.

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#19 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@HigorM said:

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

Daredevil is a skilled enough fighter to beat Wolverine or Bucky in a good fight. Black Tarantula is the least skilled character here, but he is also the strongest, the most powerful, the most durable, and has a healing factor that is AT LEAST as good as Wolverine's.

There is no world in which Daredevil beats Wolverine. (Garth Ennis karate throat chop aside.)

Logan has DD beat in all areas.

We often take powersets into account on the Vine when separating PIS from probability do we not? Along with the greater consistency of feats? Well, Logan is at least on DD's level skill wise. I do not think many would dispute this. He is touted as a 1-2 tonner. Heals from soaking hundreds of bullets in seconds. Has adamantium laced bones upon which DD (a peak human) should seriously hurt his fist should he tap Logan in the jaw and repeatedly tanks Hulk level hay-makers besides.

Seriously doubt DD would come close to winning a majority here. Almost as bad IMO as stating DD holds a majority over Spider-Man . After all, he's KO'd Spider-Man before has he not?

And do you have feats that put BT's healing factor anywhere near Wolverine's? I'd like to hear of his higher end feats - pretty sure I can make a comprehensive list of Logan's that would easily trump them.

Bucky would give DD hell too. I have Bucky at 50/50 with Daredevil. Wolverine taking an easy 7-8/10 win over Daredevil and 6/10 over BT.

Wolverine wouldn't take a majority over Daredevil. First off, superior strength and unbreakable bones wouldn't be a huge problem, since DD has beaten Nuke before (Nuke has enhanced physical stats, and bones and muscles that are stronger then any normal person. That make him resistant to strikes, nerve attacks, and broken bones. Wolverine is immune to one or two of those (he still has soft parts that he can be hit in), and he is susceptible to nerve strikes, which Daredevil knows many of and will use if he has to. Daredevil is more agile and faster then Wolverine, and even if Wolverine is equal to him in terms of fighting skill he rarely uses that skill. Wolverine's healing factor is as strong as it needs to be for the purposes of the story, and it has been downgraded in recent years. So if you provide any instances from at least Civil War or before they will no longer be valid.  
 
Daredevil has beaten Spider-man in a fight on three occasions, once when Spidey was not holding back. Spider-man also was not in his right mind, so you could argue that that is the reason why, but the fact remains that it happened.
 
Black Tarantula has been shot up by numerous gunmen and shaken it off within seconds, and has survived being completely lit on fire and was almost fully recovered within minutes.  
 
BT is a 25 tonner, has beaten the tar out of Spider-man twice, has KOed White Tiger, and has killed several hand ninjas with a single sword stroke.
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#20 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7661 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@HigorM said:

@Ferro Vida: Daredevil can easily defeat BuckyCap ? or it´s BT that can easily take Logan and then help Matt ?

Daredevil is a skilled enough fighter to beat Wolverine or Bucky in a good fight. Black Tarantula is the least skilled character here, but he is also the strongest, the most powerful, the most durable, and has a healing factor that is AT LEAST as good as Wolverine's.

There is no world in which Daredevil beats Wolverine. (Garth Ennis karate throat chop aside.)

Logan has DD beat in all areas.

We often take powersets into account on the Vine when separating PIS from probability do we not? Along with the greater consistency of feats? Well, Logan is at least on DD's level skill wise. I do not think many would dispute this. He is touted as a 1-2 tonner. Heals from soaking hundreds of bullets in seconds. Has adamantium laced bones upon which DD (a peak human) should seriously hurt his fist should he tap Logan in the jaw and repeatedly tanks Hulk level hay-makers besides.

Seriously doubt DD would come close to winning a majority here. Almost as bad IMO as stating DD holds a majority over Spider-Man . After all, he's KO'd Spider-Man before has he not?

And do you have feats that put BT's healing factor anywhere near Wolverine's? I'd like to hear of his higher end feats - pretty sure I can make a comprehensive list of Logan's that would easily trump them.

Bucky would give DD hell too. I have Bucky at 50/50 with Daredevil. Wolverine taking an easy 7-8/10 win over Daredevil and 6/10 over BT.

Wolverine wouldn't take a majority over Daredevil. First off, superior strength and unbreakable bones wouldn't be a huge problem, since DD has beaten Nuke before (Nuke has enhanced physical stats, and bones and muscles that are stronger then any normal person. That make him resistant to strikes, nerve attacks, and broken bones. Wolverine is immune to one or two of those (he still has soft parts that he can be hit in), and he is susceptible to nerve strikes, which Daredevil knows many of and will use if he has to. Daredevil is more agile and faster then Wolverine, and even if Wolverine is equal to him in terms of fighting skill he rarely uses that skill. Wolverine's healing factor is as strong as it needs to be for the purposes of the story, and it has been downgraded in recent years. So if you provide any instances from at least Civil War or before they will no longer be valid. Daredevil has beaten Spider-man in a fight on three occasions, once when Spidey was not holding back. Spider-man also was not in his right mind, so you could argue that that is the reason why, but the fact remains that it happened. Black Tarantula has been shot up by numerous gunmen and shaken it off within seconds, and has survived being completely lit on fire and was almost fully recovered within minutes. BT is a 25 tonner, has beaten the tar out of Spider-man twice, has KOed White Tiger, and has killed several hand ninjas with a single sword stroke.

Superior strength and far, far superior durability are huge problems when you're fighting an equally skilled opponent. An exhausted Wolverine easily destroyed Nuke. Let's not compare Wolverine as an opponent to Nuke in any regard here. As to speed, I have Wolverine's combat reflexes easily on par with DD's and this based off feats. Please state/show a feat you feel put DD's combat reflexes ahead of Logan and I'm fairly certain I can match and surpass ...

Matt's avoidance and agility are seen as superior as, unlike Logan, he has to avoid or he's dead. Wolverine has the luxury of tanking. Daredevil does not.

Master Po stated pretty much what the common consensus on the Vine is, that Wolverine charges head on into a hail of bullets because he can, and because it expedites the butt whoopin. He could avoid should he so choose. And has shown this as fact on numerous occasions. There are plenty of skill feats for Logan besides.

When has Wolverine proven susceptible to nerve strike? I've seen him resist them, I've seen him use them, but I've not seen him fall to one. Are you referring to Elektra paralyzing him by dropping sais into his nerve clusters? Because Logan's healing factor saw him recover as soon as the sais were removed. Pretty sure the healing factor has dealt with nerve strikes fairly quickly in all other scenarios (like the Echo one which was pretty silly to begin with). Even so, DD's not just going to slip past the claws to land one so easily.

I agree that the degree to which Logan heals scales with plot. However, if Wolverine's healing factor has been downgraded, he sure as heck hasn't shown that recently ... in his own title alone I can point out a few durability feats that make any damage output DD can lay down irrelevant.

Only jobber Wolverine loses a majority to Daredevil. There's no way DD takes a majority on this one.

As to Black T; beating Spider-Man does not see him beating Wolverine. Spider-Man beats Logan due to webbing. While Black Tarantula can rip through the webbing, Logan cannot. Spidey beats Logan via incapacitation. In a brawl, he loses. So does BT. The irony (or PIS or whatever you like to call it) is while Logan has been KO'd by top tier peak humans, he's rarely been KO'd by 10-25 tonners. In fact, I've never seen him fall to one. Seen him KO a few (Caliban, Roughouse etc.), but not go down to one.

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#21 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII: That's funny, because superior strength and durability was not enough for Luke Cage to put down DD when they fought. And the point of bringing up the Nuke fight was to show that Daredevil thinks on his feet when he fights. When he learns that one tactic won't work he will switch to another one, and he will resort to lethal tactics if he has to, ESPECIALLY against someone like Wolverine, who he knows can take a lot of damage. And DD's combat reflexes are sufficient that he can easily deflect bullets and snatch arrows out of the air. He has also caught projectiles thrown by Bullseye, which means his combat reflexes are at least on par with those of Black Panther (who has been enhanced). 
 
If you have feats showing that Wolverine has superior agility and avoidance than Daredevil then please post them. I'm not saying that Wolverine can't do those things, I'm saying that more often then not he won't. It's usually in character for him to just take a hit, as you yourself have said. 
 
I was thinking of the Elektra thing, which is not the same as most nerve strikes (the same immobilizing technique was used on Kingpin by Hand ninjas and he was able to move once they removed their blades as well. Wolverine has nerve clusters, just like any other person. He can experience pain just like any other person. Wolverine's healing factor heals physical damage, not pain. It isn't morphine. Following that logic nerve strikes would effect him, even if they do not last as long. 
 
The one time Spidey and Wolverine have had a straight fight it ended in a draw because Peter was unwilling to use all his strength to snap Wolverine's neck. Wolverine himself stated this. Not only is Black Tarantula stronger then Spider-man, he is also willing to kill. There is nothing stopping him from doing what Peter would not.
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#22 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7661 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

Allows half his torso to be blown off by a grenade...

All I have to say to all the Garth Ennis references is 'bleh'. He was the maestro of terrible writing where Logan was concerned. Heck, Wolverine dropped Spider-Man with a kick to the groin right before the lil ol karate chop.

Wolverine recently had his heart displaced by a teleporter and regrew it in Astonishing X-Men #49 - and this without dropping. Like I said, going with Logan's recent showing if you will, there's not much DD can do to drop him before he himself gets dropped. While DD is awesome, it's a real stretch to paint that kind of picture here IMO.

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#23 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

Allows half his torso to be blown off by a grenade...

All I have to say to all the Garth Ennis references is 'bleh'. He was the maestro of terrible writing where Logan was concerned. Heck, Wolverine dropped Spider-Man with a kick to the groin right before the lil ol karate chop.

Wolverine recently had his heart displaced by a teleporter and regrew it in Astonishing X-Men #49 - and this without dropping. Like I said, going with Logan's recent showing if you will, there's not much DD can do to drop him before he himself gets dropped. While DD is awesome, it's a real stretch to paint that kind of picture here IMO.

... Can you really not take a joke? I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious we were joking around. 
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#24 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7661 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Super_SoldierXII: That's funny, because superior strength and durability was not enough for Luke Cage to put down DD when they fought. And the point of bringing up the Nuke fight was to show that Daredevil thinks on his feet when he fights. When he learns that one tactic won't work he will switch to another one, and he will resort to lethal tactics if he has to, ESPECIALLY against someone like Wolverine, who he knows can take a lot of damage. And DD's combat reflexes are sufficient that he can easily deflect bullets and snatch arrows out of the air. He has also caught projectiles thrown by Bullseye, which means his combat reflexes are at least on par with those of Black Panther (who has been enhanced). If you have feats showing that Wolverine has superior agility and avoidance than Daredevil then please post them. I'm not saying that Wolverine can't do those things, I'm saying that more often then not he won't. It's usually in character for him to just take a hit, as you yourself have said. I was thinking of the Elektra thing, which is not the same as most nerve strikes (the same immobilizing technique was used on Kingpin by Hand ninjas and he was able to move once they removed their blades as well. Wolverine has nerve clusters, just like any other person. He can experience pain just like any other person. Wolverine's healing factor heals physical damage, not pain. It isn't morphine. Following that logic nerve strikes would effect him, even if they do not last as long. The one time Spidey and Wolverine have had a straight fight it ended in a draw because Peter was unwilling to use all his strength to snap Wolverine's neck. Wolverine himself stated this. Not only is Black Tarantula stronger then Spider-man, he is also willing to kill. There is nothing stopping him from doing what Peter would not.

Did Daredevil put Luke Cage down? If not, DD simply avoided. I am not arguing that DD could not avoid Wolverine if that was the battle plan (though not indefinitely). DD is a master at avoidance indeed. I haven't seen that fight with Cage and would have to take a look to get a better grasp of context before commenting further. But if DD didn't put Cage down, it's pretty much irrelevant.

Wolverine has deflected multiple projectiles with ease (even caught a few thrown by Longshot - same as catching them thrown from Bullseye IMO as thrown projectiles can only travel so fast despite the precision of their handler). Dodged bullets point blank, has speed blitzed chasing Sabretooth around Havok faster than he could register, moved faster than the human eye could follow, disappeared in plain sight, fought faster than Psylocke's mind could keep up with, dismantled opponents cybernetic armor with precision strikes faster than they could register or react, cleaved through three gunmen's firearms trained on him pointblank before either new what had happened, closed a 20 foot distance almost instantaneously etc. etc. etc. The list really does go on.

I have no problem believing DD's reflexes are enhanced. I have argued in other debates that they are in fact. I also agree Wolverine's style sees him tanking more than avoiding. I simply disagree that his combat reflexes have been proven faster than Wolverine's. I also don't see Logan's tanking style hurting him against Matt as DD should really not be able to take Logan out before falling to a claw swipe. Taking the bulk of Wolverine's damage soak into consideration (low, medium and high end feats), DD simply doesn't have the damage output to do so.

And Spidey was saying to himself he could break Wolverine's neck in that fight. We all know he could never dream of it. Crush his jugular, yes, break his neck? No. Only one was going to truly walk away from that so-called stalemate. And it wasn't Petey. The adamantium has been molecularly bonded - it has been explained in canon why Wolverine's unbreakable body parts don't just fly everywhere. Even Hulk has proven unable to tear Wolverine apart in 616 continuity. Logan's neck ain't breaking. BT cannot dream of breaking Logan's neck.

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#25 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (7661 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ferro Vida said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

Allows half his torso to be blown off by a grenade...

All I have to say to all the Garth Ennis references is 'bleh'. He was the maestro of terrible writing where Logan was concerned. Heck, Wolverine dropped Spider-Man with a kick to the groin right before the lil ol karate chop.

Wolverine recently had his heart displaced by a teleporter and regrew it in Astonishing X-Men #49 - and this without dropping. Like I said, going with Logan's recent showing if you will, there's not much DD can do to drop him before he himself gets dropped. While DD is awesome, it's a real stretch to paint that kind of picture here IMO.

... Can you really not take a joke? I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious we were joking around.

Sure I can. I was not knocking the jesting at all. Please don't misunderstand the post. I merely carrying the friendly debate forward (mostly in the second paragraph). I apologize if the intent was misunderstood ... I meant no offense.

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#26 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@Super_SoldierXII: That's funny, because superior strength and durability was not enough for Luke Cage to put down DD when they fought. And the point of bringing up the Nuke fight was to show that Daredevil thinks on his feet when he fights. When he learns that one tactic won't work he will switch to another one, and he will resort to lethal tactics if he has to, ESPECIALLY against someone like Wolverine, who he knows can take a lot of damage. And DD's combat reflexes are sufficient that he can easily deflect bullets and snatch arrows out of the air. He has also caught projectiles thrown by Bullseye, which means his combat reflexes are at least on par with those of Black Panther (who has been enhanced). If you have feats showing that Wolverine has superior agility and avoidance than Daredevil then please post them. I'm not saying that Wolverine can't do those things, I'm saying that more often then not he won't. It's usually in character for him to just take a hit, as you yourself have said. I was thinking of the Elektra thing, which is not the same as most nerve strikes (the same immobilizing technique was used on Kingpin by Hand ninjas and he was able to move once they removed their blades as well. Wolverine has nerve clusters, just like any other person. He can experience pain just like any other person. Wolverine's healing factor heals physical damage, not pain. It isn't morphine. Following that logic nerve strikes would effect him, even if they do not last as long. The one time Spidey and Wolverine have had a straight fight it ended in a draw because Peter was unwilling to use all his strength to snap Wolverine's neck. Wolverine himself stated this. Not only is Black Tarantula stronger then Spider-man , he is also willing to kill. There is nothing stopping him from doing what Peter would not.

Did Daredevil put Luke Cage down? If not, DD simply avoided. I am not arguing that DD could not avoid Wolverine if that was the battle plan (though not indefinitely). DD is a master at avoidance indeed. I haven't seen that fight with Cage and would have to take a look to get a better grasp of context before commenting further. But if DD didn't put Cage down, it's pretty much irrelevant.

Wolverine has deflected multiple projectiles with ease (even caught a few thrown by Longshot - same as catching them thrown from Bullseye IMO as thrown projectiles can only travel so fast despite the precision of their handler). Dodged bullets point blank, has speed blitzed chasing Sabretooth around Havok faster than he could register, moved faster than the human eye could follow, disappeared in plain sight, fought faster than Psylocke's mind could keep up with, dismantled opponents cybernetic armor with precision strikes faster than they could register or react, cleaved through three gunmen's firearms trained on him pointblank before either new what had happened, closed a 20 foot distance almost instantaneously etc. etc. etc. The list really does go on.

I have no problem believing DD's reflexes are enhanced. I have argued in other debates that they are in fact. I also agree Wolverine's style sees him tanking more than avoiding. I simply disagree that his combat reflexes have been proven faster than Wolverine's. I also don't see Logan's tanking style hurting him against Matt as DD should really not be able to take Logan out before falling to a claw swipe. Taking the bulk of Wolverine's damage soak into consideration (low, medium and high end feats), DD simply doesn't have the damage output to do so.

And Spidey was saying to himself he could break Wolverine's neck in that fight. We all know he could never dream of it. Crush his jugular, yes, break his neck? No. Only one was going to truly walk away from that so-called stalemate. And it wasn't Petey. The adamantium has been molecularly bonded - it has been explained in canon why Wolverine's unbreakable body parts don't just fly everywhere. Even Hulk has proven unable to tear Wolverine apart in 616 continuity. Logan's neck ain't breaking. BT cannot dream of breaking Logan's neck.

The context was that DD and Cage agreed to have one on one match in a boxing ring (not strictly boxing) for charity. Or at least that's how it started. By the time the fight began both were talking it quite seriously because they felt like they had something to prove. (this was pre-upgrade Cage). Daredevil showed he was able to avoid all of Cage's hits without leaving the ring and hit him several times to test his durability so that he could build a winning strategy on the move. The fight ended up not having a victor because part way through Cage was drugged (Turk wanted to rig the fight so that bets that had been placed would come out in his favour). DD did take one direct hit from Cage when he tried to stop the fight. It knocked him on his @ss and left him dazed, but he was still able to fight afterward.  
 
Did he deflect them with extreme accuracy? Daredevil was able to precisely deflect bullets. Has Longshot ever done ridiculous feats like Bullseye? Bullseye once killed a women from one hundred feet away, through a window, by throwing a toothpick at her. Whether or not it makes sense, Lester's thrown projectiles seem to move a lot faster than most others. At best those showings put Wolverine on par with Daredevil, and I still think Daredevil would have an edge due to his radar sense and skill at avoiding attacks. It allowed him to dodge attacks from Doc Ock, which even a serious Spider-man has trouble with.
 
I'm not arguing that Daredevil puts him down through sheer damage output. I'm saying he can figure out a way to do it (just as he did with Nuke), and that he is capable of fighting Wolverine using nerve strikes. He can also utilize his skill at jujitsu to keep some distance between them, and use his environment to his advantage. He could even try turning  Wolverine and Bucky against each other, as he did with Tombstone and the new Matador. Daredevil is an expert at fighting creatively and tactically. That is what has let him beat people like Spider-man and hold his own against Namor (I know, but it happened back in the 80s). He has even beaten Electro by using the environment to his advantage. 
 
If you have the scan I would like to settle this, but as I recall it was Wolverine who said that when he was telling Spidey his options at the end of the fight. And the adamantium is bonded to his skeleton, yes, but not to the cartilage in between his bones. If it was then he wouldn't be able to move. Wolverine himself stated that if Spider-man (who has ten ton strength at the time) used all of his strength, he could break his neck. Black Tarantula is a 25 tonner, meaning he is more then strong enough to do the same.
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#27 Posted by Ferro Vida (34317 posts) - - Show Bio
@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:

@Ferro Vida said:

@BringnIt said:
Yeah, I pretend that issue never happened since it is completely and utterly terrible. And Logan eats eye lasers for breakfast, just ask your boy Scott lol.
That boy who usually beats the crap out of him? :P

That is only because Logan is such a nice guy. Only one of them is the best at what they do...

You mean getting raped by photon beams? Yes, Logan is the best at that.

He only does that because he is desperate to prove to you his healing factor is better than Black Tarantula's. Same reason he tanks nukes, lets people slit his throat, lets Ragnarok smash his face in, allows World War Hukk to beat on him, etc.

Allows half his torso to be blown off by a grenade...

All I have to say to all the Garth Ennis references is 'bleh'. He was the maestro of terrible writing where Logan was concerned. Heck, Wolverine dropped Spider-Man with a kick to the groin right before the lil ol karate chop.

Wolverine recently had his heart displaced by a teleporter and regrew it in Astonishing X-Men #49 - and this without dropping. Like I said, going with Logan's recent showing if you will, there's not much DD can do to drop him before he himself gets dropped. While DD is awesome, it's a real stretch to paint that kind of picture here IMO.

... Can you really not take a joke? I mean, I thought it was fairly obvious we were joking around.

Sure I can. I was not knocking the jesting at all. Please don't misunderstand the post. I merely carrying the friendly debate forward (mostly in the second paragraph). I apologize if the intent was misunderstood ... I meant no offense.

Sorry, I was thinking about it in terms of your other post and in my head it came off with more hostility then was intended. 
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#28 Posted by TDK_1997 (18550 posts) - - Show Bio

I give it to Team 2.DD has dealt with foes like Bucky and Wolverine before and I believe he will take them down in a good fight and with the help of BP,this will be even easier.

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#29 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning towards team 2.

Black Tarantula can also heal other people not just himself. He could just heal Daredevil if he gets beaten down.

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#30 Posted by lets_play (103 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2

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#31 Edited by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

Bucky has dealt with Super powered foes with a depowered arm. He's also done well against people with Eye beams, this was after he fought in a 2 month gauntlet, with a werebear, the titanium man and this fatso...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

nice scans, i hadn´t seen them yet..

also, great scenario analysis..

@Super_SoldierXII

great debate guys!

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#32 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd be inclined to favor team 1.

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#33 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Same. But if Bucky did not have his HG then I would say Team 2. That HG and Shield combo is honestly the only thing saving Bucky's ass. Otherwise BT would probably tear his arm off like Sin did when she was Skaadi.

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#34 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: My opinion is actually based on the opinion that Wolverine could take down BT courtesy of those claws.
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#35 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: While I agree Bucky's HG is formidable didn't he have the barrel literally on Ares chin when it knocked him back? Letting BT in that close and surviving is going to be quite tricky for Bucky.

On the other hand I guess as the HG is pretty powerful multiple shots from a range could put BT down and we all know Carlos doesn't particularly like dodging bullets (lol) so I guess his own fighting style could be his undoing.

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#36 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D: Agreed, I don't see Carlos taking many of those at a range before going down.

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#38 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio
@SlimJ87D: Was it his standard pistol when he pumped a few rounds into Brock, though?
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#39 Posted by slimj87d (15634 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: Yeah, he was just using normal rounds. Shield later confirmed that Bucky was able to miss all major internal organs.

I don't know how well BT would take a bullet to the head or knee caps. I think BT has been shown to underestimate people wielding guns and just lets people fire at him. Bucky would shot him in crucial areas like the knee caps, elbows and possibly head if Wolverine tells him that BT has a healing factor so not to morally worry.

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#40 Edited by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

I don't know how well BT would take a bullet to the head or knee caps.

BT would most likely die if not get ko'd if he took a bullet to the head. Knee caps on the other hand probably wouldn't slow him down much considering he took a lot of bullets to the chest during the Daredevil arc and simply called them annoying. They did however penetrate his skin so i'm guess a shot to the head wouldn't be good for him.

The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

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#41 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Strider92 said:


The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

Precisely why I believe Wolverine can defeat him.
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#42 Posted by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n: I believe Wolverine has a chance depending on what version of BT you're using. The ASM version healed a broken neck in a few seconds but this new one couldn't heal himself when he got stabbed.

The old BT would give Logan real trouble but the latest one would probably fall after a long bloody fight due to Logan's adimantium skeleton.

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#43 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: i´m considering Carlos LaMuerto as BT.

the problem is that he doesn´t have too much appearances..

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#44 Edited by Strider1992 (18501 posts) - - Show Bio

@HigorM: So was I both the ASM and Daredevil BT where Carlos its just after ASM he seems to have been depowered.

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#45 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@Strider92 said:

The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

Precisely why I believe Wolverine can defeat him.

You do not think BT has the skills and physical stats to avoid thzt?

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#46 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Strider92 said:

The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

Precisely why I believe Wolverine can defeat him.

You do not think BT has the skills and physical stats to avoid thzt?

I've never viewed BT as an especially agile fellow.  And yes, he's fast, but I don't see his speed as being too great for Logan.  Also, I haven't seen anything to imply he's skilled enough to dodge the strikes.
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#47 Posted by BringnIt (3875 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@BringnIt said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Strider92 said:

The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

Precisely why I believe Wolverine can defeat him.

You do not think BT has the skills and physical stats to avoid thzt?

I've never viewed BT as an especially agile fellow. And yes, he's fast, but I don't see his speed as being too great for Logan. Also, I haven't seen anything to imply he's skilled enough to dodge the strikes.

Cool. Did you read his fight with Iron Fist?

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#48 Posted by HigorM (8816 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt: did you have any scans of that fight?

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#49 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@BringnIt said:

Team 2, I do believe.
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#50 Posted by k4tzm4n (41722 posts) - - Show Bio
@BringnIt said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@BringnIt said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@Strider92 said:

The worst injury i've seen BT get is a stab though the heart and it took him a day or so to recover. So if he puts enough rounds in I think Bucky could put him down if hes fast enough.

Precisely why I believe Wolverine can defeat him.

You do not think BT has the skills and physical stats to avoid thzt?

I've never viewed BT as an especially agile fellow. And yes, he's fast, but I don't see his speed as being too great for Logan. Also, I haven't seen anything to imply he's skilled enough to dodge the strikes.

Cool. Did you read his fight with Iron Fist?

Nope.  Have scans of it?  I've only seen his battles with Spider-Man, vs goons while on fire, vs goons in a bar, and then the back-stab.
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