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Who wins ?
@ultimatesage: lol, Even Am mel is enough to beat/stomp BSM naruto.
@mevbi: stop dreaming lmao, even BM has a majority over that version.
BSM Naruto most likely isn't losing to Assault Mode Meliodas, but I do think Demon King Meliodas can solo him.
@ultimatesage: Not really considering AM mel is faster, stronger physically and more durable than this version naruto. He is easly at mid-high quad mach speeds scaling off Galand who was able to cross a distance above 560 kilometers in a instant, which is around the 3600 mach. Here's the calc. Even 32 000 Mel blitzed him to obvlinion so Am mel could possibly even be at low-mid sub-rev speeds. Those speeds exced far from what BSM Naruto is capable of.
For physicals dunno even if its debatable. Even BoS Mel and BoS ban are capable of destroyng hill sized dungeon with multi-town barrier. Their combined strength was around 1800 and considering Estarossa physicall strength was 53 000 and AM mel who is far more powerfull, Naruto doesnt have a chance of coming close to Am mel in strength.
As for durability weaker versions of Meliodas have feats like tanking Gloxinia spirit spear exlosion, which shockwave was strong enough to destroy large hill. That is strong as or even stronger than a bijuudama, plus he got no scratches on him. He has feats like tanking a cruel sun from near high noon Escanor in perfect cube. He has feats like tanking blows from near high noon Escanor so i don't think Nardo can harm him physcially.
Do u still think BM naruto beat AM mel, even if u do this isnt the right place to debate this.
@ultimatesage: Not really considering AM mel is faster, stronger physically and more durable than this version naruto. He is easly at mid-high quad mach speeds scaling off Galand who was able to cross a distance above 560 kilometers in a instant, which is around the 3600 mach. Here's the calc. Even 32 000 Mel blitzed him to obvlinion so Am mel could possibly even be at low-mid sub-rev speeds. Those speeds exced far from what BSM Naruto is capable of.
Lmao Vsbattle really? That place also has the Raikage at relavastic, so either way this naruto is faster lol
In my opinion, Naruto is far superior to Meliodas in this aspect. Without further ado, let's get into why, there's a lot that needs to be said. Now unlike the previous sections, I'm not gonna begin slow, this because Naruto has solid feats and scalings even in his strongest forms and I have no need to extrapolate from inferior forms. Let's begin with sage mode feats for once.
In the fight against Pain, Naruto casually blitzed and onshotted the Shurado Pain:
This impressive because Tsunade has kept up with other MHS characters like Orochimaru while exhausted and damaged:
Which is impressive. However what's more impressive is the fact the Shurado pain, while highly damaged, managed to jump in between Kakashi and Tendo before Kakashi could strike the latter with a chidori:
To be more precise, he casually travelled a couple of meters, at the very least, and shielded Tendo pain by standing in front of him, all before Kakashi's chidori strike could move even a foot, here, I'll even post the zoomed in images so that there is no room for doubt:
Followed by:
Just off of a visual comparison, I'd say Shurado was moving much faster than Kakashi's strike, by some single digit factors like maybe 3x or 4x at minimum.
This is absolutely incredible, because even at a younger age, Kakashi was fast enough to chop lightning in half. Which would make him MHS+ as an adult. Which in turn puts Shurado pain at high MHS+. And SM Naduto much higher for blitzing a peak physical condition Shurado Pain. Putting SM Naruto at casual high MHS+.
This is further supported by the fact that SM Naruto was able to perfectly percieve, point blank dodge and even outmaneuver/speed the 3rd Raikage in h2h combat with a rasengan:
The 3rd raikage is a legend for having soloed an army of shinobi for 3 days before he finally met his end, and utilizes the same lightning armour jutsu as his son which grants the user some absolutely insane processing speed:
His synapses fire off signals at LS speeds, which is absolutely insane. Human reaction time is around 0.25 seconds. Since the Raikage's neural propogation speed is LS, it is hundreds of thousands of times faster than the speed of the electrical impulses(which is at best sonic) and in the single digit microsecond tier at the very least. Which is still hundreds of times more impressive than the millisecond feats provided for Mel.
SM Naruto moved fast enough to keep up with that^, and while some of it can be attributed to Sage mode's precog, which is valid counter, it still doesn't change the fact that Naruto struck the Rasengan before he could react. This implies even SM Naruto can potentially blitz Meliodas. KCM being even superior to SM, would completely outspeed Meliodas. There ample feats to suggest this, such as the time KCM Naruto blitz-dodged the raikage's fastest strike:
Both Tsunade and Bee compared to him to Minato, who also blitz dodged the punch(the fact that Bee was there to see it makes it a valid comparison):
A feat that is superior to SM Naruto's best feat which comes down to the single digit microsecond tier. Which again is far superior to the speed feats and scalings of Meliodas. And this isn't even everything there is. Plenty of scalings and feats all point to the same thing.
And guess what? KCM1 is still just a chunk of Kurama's full power, how small a chunk you ask? Well so small that when Naruto tried entering Bijuu Mode, a mode where a jinchuuriki transforms into the great tailed beast themselves that they host after accessing its power, he was only able to transform into a baby 9 tailed fox:
This is would what it would be like if it were at full power:
The difference is just pathetic really. BM is just so massively above KCM1 which is casual high MHS+ via feats and scaling. Not to mention I'm allowed to use SM as well which still yet another massive boost. All in all putting Naruto grandly far above Mel in terms of speed.
I would go into feats for BM and BSM but this should suffice for an opening argument.
KCM naruto is faster than mach 2000 Kirin too
For physicals dunno even if its debatable. Even BoS Mel and BoS ban are capable of destroyng hill sized dungeon with multi-town barrier. Their combined strength was around 1800 and considering Estarossa physicall strength was 53 000 and AM mel who is far more powerfull, Naruto doesnt have a chance of coming close to Am mel in strength.
Strength isn't Naruto's greatest advantage, but it surely is nothing to scoff at either. I find my opponent's claims regarding the difference in strength to be exagerrated and highballed, but we'll get there. Let's begin with Naruto's capability in this regard. During the FoD arc in the chunin exams, with just a tiny drop Kurama's full power, Naruto struck and managed to stop the lunging strike of this massive snake of Orochimaru's:
The feat, especially the latter half where he stops the snake in it's path, easily qualifies as a building level-city block level blunt force. One should note that Naruto, or any ninja rather, grows stronger the more bijuu chakra they possess, and consider that he performed that feat with a millionth of Kurama's full power.
Moving on, in his fight with Sasuke at the VoTE, Naruto, again using a tiny chunk of chakra sent Sasuke crashing into a wall from underwater:
I must add that this is merely a 14 year old Naruto, a 16 year old KC1(Kurama Cloak 1, the number refers to the tail number) Naruto inflicted a crack extending for dozens of meters on a hill sized cliff with just the shockwave of his strike:
If the shockwave of his strike, which should massively inferior to the PC lf the strike itself could extend damage so far one can imagine see that the strike itself would be many times more powerful, putting the strike at small hill potency. I should remind you that this is still only a tiny chunk of Kurama's full power. Just panels after the feat, a single strike cause a the entire area around him leveled:
I should point out that each od those trees seem to be the type that dwarf humans making that area a lot bigger than one might think.
As rthe fight progressed, Naruto accessed more power of Kurama until he became strong enough to literally scream, or to be more precise, the impact wave caused by his chakra cloak in response to his anger leveled an area that dwarfed the gentle mountains that were immediatly around it:
That's right folks, the mere shockwave, caused by the tiny piece of Kurama's full power that Naruto had access to, caused a mountain dwarfing crater.
"But Streak, that crater wasn't caused because of his physical strength!"
True, however, the point I'm trying to get across to you, the reader, is that if Naruto's cloak could cause a shockwave not even a physical strike but a goddamn shockwave, that could wipe out small mountain dwarfing areas, then it is by no means unreasonable to state Naruto could replicate or surpass that feat with a strike by using the full power of the chakra that caused the shockwave in the first place. Putting a complete 4 tailed Naruto at small mountain level striking potency. This argument is further supported by the fact that a simple swing of his arm could cause a shockwave that pulverised a wave of snakes and extended damage over great distances:
Now, enough with the low end feats. I suppose it's about time we take a look at what Naruto can do, when he accesses Kurama's full power. For starters, in his fight against Pain, the latter uses Chibaku Tensei to seal Naruto in spherical heap of rock extracted from the ground via a gravitational core suspended in the air. How big was the sphere you ask? Big enough to dwarf mountain ranges:
The volume of the cylinderic area from which the CT sphere was created is quite visibly, massively superior to even a string of mountains across it's diameter, which implies that the mass of the CT is equaivalent multiple mountain ranges. But what does Naruto do to it? Rips past it like it's made of paper:
Do note that the durability of the sphere is far superior to what it would normally be because it is held together by extremely potent gravity, the same stuff that uprooted mountain ranges worth of rock against the Earth's gravity. Therefore the feat of blasting a hole in it, just by lunging out of it like Naruto did would be far far superior to simply destroying same amount of rock (mountains of rock to be precise considering the size of that thing and how much of it Naruto destroyed) that isn't held by said gravity.
And this is still isn't Kurama's full power. This was just 8 tails as visible in the scans above. The full power of Kurama was stated to be at mountain busting, with just a tail:
All statements, scalings and feats point to Kurama being multi mountain level at the very least, Naruto can accesses Kurama's full power when he's in Kurama avatar. In his KCM2 form(which is what Naruto starts with), he should atleast scale to KC4 which was large hill-small mountain busting in potency, even after lowballing. So when my opponent says:
Meliodas striking power in Assault Mode(and consequently, his piercing power with Lostvayne) is at the very least on the high end of Multi-Mountain level, far beyond any physical attack BM Naruto has ever had the displeasure of being on the receiving end of.
I have no idea what he's talking about. Even if I just accept the conclusion of Meliodas being multi mountain(which I don't), claiming that BM Naruto cannot handle multi mountain level blunt force is ridiculous in my opinion, but more on that in the durability section.
Naruto has yet another amp that we have yet to cover. I take pleasure in introducing:
Sennin mode, or just sage mode, is a form obtained by mixing nature energy and chakra to form a chakra known "sennin/sage chakra". Here's a more in-depth explanation, by Fukasaku, the toad who trained Naruto in this regard:
My opponent generously allowed me to use sage mode feats. So let's dig right in. In an inferior form of sage mode, Naruto hoisted this huge statue over his head:
One of Naruto's best feats in this form comes from when he casually stopped a huge rampaging rhino and tossed it out of the village:
He didn't even budge despite the fact that the ground around him was shattered. As for how I know that he tossed the rhino out of the village? It's because across the entire fight we get shots of the village and it is nowhere to be seen, for example:
Which means, that Naruto must have tossed it many kilometers away, which is just insane. It means sage mode is a huge amp. Add that to the already immense power of KCM2(which, scaling to KC4 of an inferior Naruto, is at small mountain level potency) and the full power of Kurama(multi mountain level) and you've got yourself a monster. So even if I accept Meliodas to be at multi mountain level(which I don't), the difference in strength between KCSM2(KCM2 + sage mode) and Mel isn't very large and Kurama avatar can outright stalemate Meliodas, being multi mountain level at the very least himself.
So the notion that Meliodas stomps in striking strength? Debunked.
As for durability weaker versions of Meliodas have feats like tanking Gloxinia spirit spear exlosion, which shockwave was strong enough to destroy large hill. That is strong as or even stronger than a bijuudama, plus he got no scratches on him. He has feats like tanking a cruel sun from near high noon Escanor in perfect cube. He has feats like tanking blows from near high noon Escanor so i don't think Nardo can harm him physcially.
Destroying a hill makes it stronger than a bijuudama??ok lol
The notion that BM Naruto has never tanked anything as powerful as Mel's strikes and slices, is IMO, unfounded and false. When I'm through, it shall be very apparent that KCSM2 and BSM Naruto handily tank Mel's strikes without going down after one or two like my opponent claims. Let's get right into it.
In his fight with Sasuke, Naruto tanked Sasuke's chidori and a sub hill level explosion:
It's sub hill level because people often forget just how tall those statues are. And I mean sure, he was KOed, but he didn't take any visible damage:
Putting 14 year old KC1 Naruto's piercing and energy durability at sub hill levels. Again, at a massively inferior age with a drop of Kurama's chakra, Moving on, In his fight against Orochimaru, KC4 Naruto no-sold pushed across a large distance into a cliff:
This one is hard to quantify since the Kusanagi blade has no feats, but still seems quite impressive. Moving on,
Moving on, and this is one ridiculous feat, Naruto, in his KC4 cloak, tanks a bijuu bomb inside his digestive track, after swallowing it:
He then focuses all that energy into and cannonballs it towards Orochimaru, who then brings up barriers to protect himself from the blast:
And the result? Complete anhillation:
This feat is incredible, because it means even his goddamn DIGESTIVE TRACK can tank what appears to be large hill-small mountain level potency, which is absolutely insane. And assuming that the durability of his cloak is > that of his stomach walls(which is a very reasonable assumption), it implies that a KC4 Naruto, and by extension, KCM2 Naruto can tank atleast small mountain level potency.
This further supported by the fact that BM Naruto tanked a body spinning tail slam from 3 tails which should atleast scale to multi mountain level, considering the tails alone are mountain level in potency:
To further support that argument, BM Naruto no-sold a head on strike from the juubi, which was comparable to Kurama himself.
This strike is most like multi mountain level considering it dwarfed the Kyuubi's tail which itself was at mountain level(refer to the previous section). Which seals any doubt over Naruto tanking Mel's attacks in his most durable.
His best energy attack would be tanking a large amount of a Juubi laser:
Each of the Juubi's Bijuu Bombs were country level:
As if that weren't enough already, sage mode Naruto's durability, which allowed him to tank strikes from Kurama, further adds to his overall durability.
Which is some impressive blunt force durability. His piercing durability allowed him to no-sell falling right down to a sharp spike from a great hieght:
Which is a cool feat, stack that on top of the piercing feats of a full powered Naruto, and he should do reasonably well against Meliodas's piercing feats.
Conclusion; I don't see how Meliodas is breaking Naruto's bones with a single strike even in KCM2, much less BSM Naruto even if I accept the arguments of my opponent, which I don't;
And I'm pretty sure Mel wouldn't be able to tank a bijuudama spam at all.
I do not believe Meliodas can tank the best of what Naruto has to offer, but based off of his durability feats, he can handle most. Anyways, Naruto has three attacks that make up his DC. Let's dive into the first one:
Now I won't be beating around the bush for this one. The guidebooks stated that massive senjutsu rasengan was at easy mountain level:
Not only can Naruto create bigger rasengans, but his senjutsu is also stated to exclipse Jiraiya's senjutsu:
Which means Naruto's massive Rasengan is potentially superior to that of Jiraiya's.
"But Streak, guidebook statements aren't credible! Look at all of what they got wrong!"
First off, guide book statements are valid unless there is canonical evidence that goes against it, which there isn't any in this case. Secondly, not only is there no evidence against it, but in fact there is evidence supporting it. The weakest Rasengan in the entire series was boulder level:
Simply by visual scaling, one can see that the massive rasengan is dozens of times larger than a normal rasengan which isn't even wider than a kid's palm. Putting the massive rasengan at sub hill levels.
"Hah!, sub hill levels =/= mountain level Streak!"
Sure. However the guide book spacified that a senjutsuinfused Rasengan is mountain level, not the ordinary one. Senjutsu is a game changer. I've already posted the scans, but SM Naruto, with the power of senjutsu chakra chucked a building level(mass) rhino out of the village, which is easily hundreds of times base Naruto's fodder feats. This directly proves that Naruto's senjutsu chakra >>>> Naruto's normal chakra in terms of potency. So it really isn't absird to day that a senjutsu massive Rasengan is mountain level because senjutsu chakra is hundreds of times more potent than normal chakra by feats.
Furthermore, that isn't even Naruto's best Rasengan, not even close:
Meliodas's best energy durability feat would at best be mountain level. Naruto's best attack would dwarf that by massive degrees. It really is no contest. Anyways, moving on to the next and 2nd attack that contributes to Naruto
Now, this is one move that Meliodas cannot tank. The Rasenshuriken is an evolved version of the Rasengan formed by adding a wind style change in nature to the Rasengan. Unlike the Rasengan, the Rasenshuriken isn't just another generic explosion, no, it's far more deadly. Why? Well according to Tsunade:
As you can see what appears to be an explosion, is nothing but trillions and trillions of wind nature chakra needles piercing the cells and the chakra distribution network every second.
So unless Meliodas has cellular/subcellular level durability feats, then, regardless of it's DC, any Rasenshuriken would oneshot him. And that's that.
Moving on to 3rd and final energy attack, I take pleasure in introducing:
Easily the most destructive and powerful attack in Naruto's arsenal. It was the inspiration behind the creation of the Rasengan, and is far, far more potent than an ordinary one.
Even a small one is a mountain vaporiser(which would be mountain+ in terms of raw energy, vaporising > fragmenting):
Kurama can create Bijuu Bombs that are massively larger than those, despite being weakened:
Again, off of a visual comparison one can conclude that tbat^ bijuu bomb is dozens of times larger and more destructive than the mountain vaporising Bijuu bombs(which were about as Large as the bijuu's heads.) Which would put it at dozens of times mountain+ level energy which would probably all in all be Island level amounts of energy.
Not to mention, Naruto can add senjutsu chakra in addition to Kurama's chakra makinf that much more destructive. Again, Mel isn't anywhere close to dealing with this kind of energy. His best Full Counter feat is mountain level and his best durability feat is at best mountain+. He dies. End of story.
Do u still think BM naruto beat AM mel, even if u do this isnt the right place to debate this
I don't need to think about it, I know BM naruto can beat that version of mel. Unless mel is throwing out island++ lv attacks he's not going to damage naruto at all, unless mel had multi-mountain to island lv durability he's not surviving hits from naruto, naruto has him beat in speed too.
I used all of your stuff.....hope that's fine with you: @streak619
Sorry if this seems lazy Mevi....kinda busy
DK solos due to being stronger in just about every area. Mael arguably solos, due to his commandment hax and scaling. Together they should stomp Naruto pretty badly.
DK solos due to being stronger in just about every area. Mael arguably solos, due to his commandment hax and scaling. Together they should stomp Naruto pretty badly.
DK Mel beats BSM Naruto one on one and Mael loses to BSM Naruto.
Therefore, the team for a solid win.
@streak619: Mel statuing lightning was in base, which is a better feat than anything bsm Naruto has for speed.
Sighing sage was at least comparable to a bb, if not slightly superior.
Mel also no sold the sighing sage blast, and no sold the slam by Ban that caused fissures all the way to the horizon, making his durability superior.
The slam Ban did that caused fissures all the way to the horizon was also a better strength feat, in which Mel scales to it.
In abilities. This Mel has all ten commandments, sighing sage, full counter, revenge counter, hell blaze as notable options.
@streak619: Mel statuing lightning was in base, which is a better feat than anything bsm Naruto has for speed.
It's an impressive feat, but even BM Naruto moved many times faster to quad mach TBBs, when they were point blank to their target. Blitzed Obito who has quad mach feats as well.
Sighing sage was at least comparable to a bb, if not slightly superior.
Mel also no sold the sighing sage blast,
Which TBB?
and no sold the slam by Ban that caused fissures all the way to the horizon, making his durability superior.
The slam Ban did that caused fissures all the way to the horizon was also a better strength feat, in which Mel scales to it.
BM Naruto no-sold a strike from the juubi, which has island level shockwaves.
In abilities. This Mel has all ten commandments, sighing sage, full counter, revenge counter, hell blaze as notable options.
I never said anything about versatility. I said BSM Naruto had better feats than either of them.
@streak619: Mel statuing lightning was in base, which is a better feat than anything bsm Naruto has for speed.
Sighing sage was at least comparable to a bb, if not slightly superior.
Mel also no sold the sighing sage blast, and no sold the slam by Ban that caused fissures all the way to the horizon, making his durability superior.
The slam Ban did that caused fissures all the way to the horizon was also a better strength feat, in which Mel scales to it.
In abilities. This Mel has all ten commandments, sighing sage, full counter, revenge counter, hell blaze as notable options.
This.
Naruto is outgunned and outhaxed, suggesting Naruto wins here is ridiculous. DK Mel alone kicks his ass.
I can see Naruto being able to compete 1v1 and win, but as a team I'm inclined to say Mael and DK Mel win
BSM Naruto ain't winning this fight if they are double teaming him. Now one-on-one he beats both of them with mid-diff thanks to their hax.
I don't think I could state how badly DK Mel and Mael manhandle Naruto. I wouldn't even put it past them to accidentally shatter a couple of his bones after being struck by the god or angel. Casually Island level+ physicals, high regen, country level (Mael vaped a country sized magic field with his grace and DK scales massively above him).
If this is 3C Mael then Lightball of love hax puts him to sleep.
Naruto isn't taking Sighing Sage spam while being outmatched physically.
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