BSM Naruto VS 1/2 Rinnegan SM Madara

@zuriel-el: 1. hashirama using his strongest technique on someone by default makes them not fodder to him. What madara did to the ninja alliance makes them fodder to him

We have no idea how indra and ashura fought?

2. Tobirama has never been shown or implied to be anywhere near madara equal in fact the opposite has always been shown. Madara has always been superior and iirc tobirama even says to hashirama that only he can stop madara. Madara and hashirama were by far better than anyone else during their time. The fact that you think tobirama could ever hope to match madara shows how faulty you scale these characters. Madara was never excited to face tobirama

3. Kurama never rejoined the battle. He was sealed onto hashirama wife after the battle was over. Also in none of those scans does he say the curse mark is inferior to sage mode. He talks about how he surpassed orochimaru

@theemperor95: 1. The madara we are talking about is the one the senju knew before he got ems, not the one that had the nine tails to back him up. If madara could tke hashirama why bring the nine tails to the battle. I madara in perfect susanoo (no kurama) goes against hashirama on shinsu senju and hashirama wants to kill him what do you think would happen.

Tis how hashirama fought madara, tis how narito fough sasuke, hence the conclusion thats how they fight.

2. When Madara and izuna awakened mangekyou, they wer equals Tobirama killed izuna, post izunas death madara got ems and became more powerful. Being excited has nothing to do with this, the only category in which madara is superior is raw power, thats it, in stats toborama was the fastest ninja in the world by madaras account. Ems madara is no madara, Hashirama told ms madara that he didn't stand a chance against him, tobirama killed izuna (ms madaras equal). ems madara came to the battle field, hashirama came alone hashirama won the battle, the senju came out to kill madara, hashirama siad no.

3. Lol no, thats not what kushina said.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/500/5

DURING THE BATTLE (not after) Mito sealed the nine tails, she did it to help him defeat madara, translation the nine tails was a pest in the fight that needed putting down. Kushina was essentially mitos daughter by default, i will take her word for it. Not yours.

@zuriel-el: 1. What are you talking about? You said madara is fodder to hashirama because shinjuu senju would stomp him but using your strongest technique on an opponent means they aren't fodder otherwise you wouldn't need your strongest technique

They didn't even have ninjutsu back in their time. Especially not anything like what naruto and sasuke were doing. Naruto and sasuke also didn't fight like hashirama and madara as the latter duo battle lasted far longer

2. They were not equals. They trained together the whole time but they were not equals.

Hashirama said madara won't win actually (which doesn't make sense due to retcons later on). And you must be slow. How were the senju wounded and battle worn if they were just hiding? We know they weren't fighting any uchiha whatsoever due to the lack of uchiha bodies (whether they be dead or prisoners). Guess what enemy was for sure on scene and actively fighting the same time they were..that's right madara

3. First kushina version of events doesn't trump hashirama who was present and an active participant in the battle. Kushina wasn't even alive when the battle happened

That aside nowhere does it say she helped him take down the 9 tails. It says during the battle that hashirama subdued the 9 tails and after it was subdued she sealed it in her body. That could have been at any point

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/568/7

However as the 9 tails itself recollects hashirama was speaking to it AFTER the fight and talks about how it's too dangerous to be left free then it shows mito talking to it. She wasn't there with hashirama at the battlefield talking to it as well. That's 2 people (one who was in the fight and the other is the actual character being sealed) showing that mito wasn't present during the battle and instead that the 9 tails was sealed later

@theemperor95: When at your strongest you can oneshot your opponent they are fodder

You seriously don't know anything about naruto, in their time it was not uncommon to find shinobi that had mastered the five chakra natures, hashirama, tobirama, hiruzen, ohnoki... Twas Tobirama who created techniques like edo tensei, flying thunder god, kage bunshin, muu created particle style. And nothing sasuke has didnt already exist in Ninja Of that age. So CAN IT., if anything ninja (the extras) were superior then, and only naruto and sasuke now rival/surpass the shinobi who actually saw hashirama alive. Plus naruto and sasuke fought for a day, same with hashirama and madara.

2. Izuna was stated to be madaras equal. They competed against each other the author said, you don't compete with inferior contemporaries, only equals.

There was no retcon, you are stupid (lol 😂), At the time madara Only had Normal susanoo (he didn't have ems yet so no perfect susanoo and was going blind, while hashirama already had his mokujin, mokuryu, and sage mode (see?). I don't care, Hashirama and madara both came alone, the uchija probably ran home when madara lost and the senju came out of hiding (anime canon shows as much,), even if they look haggard its probably cuz thy were in the vicinity of a perfect susanoo swinging its sword and a mokujin stopping it.

So you think madara can fight hashirama and the entire senju clan In a battle to the death for a whole day? (yes or no)

3. First off. You're too wet behind the ears to argue with me about naruto (keep reading and maybe someday but not today).

*Mito is the one aho told kushina the story.

*scan you provided has hashirama with full armour

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/568/7

* and wounded, with blood stain on his Forehead. (Please take note of all i said he has here)

# This is hashirama at the end of the battle.

*Armour has been destroyed (unlike yOur scan)

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/626/11

*Rain has washed off the blood (Wasn't raining when kurama was sealed, it started after)

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/626/15

*He can barely stand (much less restrain the nine tails for mito to seal it)

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/626/16

*theres no nine tails in sight on he battle field (kishimoto actually shows Us the whole battle field)

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/626/17

* CONCLUSION

Mito told kushina the story of how she stopped the ninetails so hashirama could face madara and beat him, WITHOUT KURAMA BUTTING IN. Kurama remembers the discussion during the battle not after. ENOUGH OF THIS.

@zuriel-el: 1. Tobirama alone created countless jutsu and even kakashi has created a jutsu. That means all of those didn't exist during the time ashura and indura were around. There are a multitude of jutsu that were created after they died. Not to mention ninshuu is what the sage taught to his sons not ninjutsu. The shinobi during the era of the SOSP were stronger but didn't have nearly as many techniques. More raw power less skill type of thing

Also hashirama strongest mode is sage mode. He can't one shot madara in said mode. Using his strongest technique he is able to beat madara. We also know that after kurama was caught the shinjuu senju was still active yet it wasn't able to take down madara meaning he isn't powerless against it

2. Madara training with his brother doesn't mean they are equals. Kakashi trained with team 11 but they were fodder to him.

The retcon is that madara and hashirama are indura and ashura reincarnated. Indura reincarnation is always superior at first but ashura reincarnation surpasses them through training. This doesn't happen with madara and hashirama because hashirama is always stronger then him

There were no uchiha present. The anime (which isn't canon unlike what you just said) even shows madara there alone against the entire senju clan. Tobirama couldn't believe his eyes when he saw perfect susanoo in the anime. Naruto and sasuke did not for a full day. There battle lasted a couple hours at best. They then passed out until morning

3. Too wet behind the ears? Coming from the person who thinks the anime is canon? Lol you're too wet behind the ears when it comes to debating to even be on this site

Mito wasn't present at the battlefield. How kushina 3rd party telling of a story somehow takes precedent over 2 people in the battles baffles me.

Hashirama looks as though he can barely stand in kurama flashback. Not to mention madara isn't just going to sit around and let him seal kurama. A wood clone is so fodder to madara that he wouldn't even face one to pass the time and casually one shot it while sitting down. Not to mention he can notice a wood clone with his eyes.

In kurama flashback was mito present? Nope weird that kurama wouldn'tremember that. In the flashback of hashirama and madara fight and his retelling is mito present? Nope weird that such a pivotal scene as the kyuubi getting released and resealed on the battlefield would be missed. In that scan that "shows the whole battlefield" do you seem the remains of the shinjuu senju? Nope yet according to you that's the whole battlefield lol

Mito never said she did that. She said hashirama beat kurama and to better aid him she sealed it within herself. The fact that she wasn't present on the battlefield in the flashback shows that she sealed it in herself AFTER the battle. She never said she was there at the battle. Just that hashirama beat it during the battle

Madara.

@theemperor95: 1. This is weird. You wanna talk about jutsu's that existed in the time of Ashura and Indra? And yet you neglect that the sage of six paths lived in that era, he has every ability of the rinnegan, basically a pain-madara-sasuke hybrid and then some, his sealing techniques include, benihisago (a tool), six paths chibaku tensei, kohaku no johei. He is the maker of the bashousen (a fan that wields every element) , and kokinjou as well as shichiseiken (sworD that cuts words), the tenseigan and all its abilities are of that era, every ability byakugan and sharingan has is of that era, That new jutsus were made doesnt mean in the era of the six paths the jutsu were fewer, there are jutsu hagoromo can use that are lost in time, his chakra ghost That transcends death is one of said jutsu, The chakra ghosts ability to travel through time is another, his creation of all things is another of such jutsu (surpasses yin-yang, and izanagi), gudou dama itself is something that surpasses the nature manipulation of the Pre jubi jin generation, its a kekke mora, far abobe ohnokis kekke touta (the very peak of this generation), kaguyas ash bone is also above kekke mora, hagoromo can summon the spirits of the dead from the afterlife without rubbing them of their free will (surpasses edo tensei and rinne tensei) he can override edo tensei with his own release jutsu, and summon people from kaguyas dimension without the need of a portal he does it with a jutsu formular, and he taught narusuke how to break mugen tsukiyomi, The sage said his sons used ninjutsu, Thats how they killed each other, ninshu is a power that connects the hearts of people through chakra its not at all offensive, naruto and obitos talk was Naruto using ninshu.

2. Which team 11 did kakashi train with. Madara competed with izuna not trined.

Lol hagoromo said indra could do anything and ashura was just as powerful by the time they were adults, and when he was to choose he gave power to ashura, hence ashura surpasses indra. Did hashirama and madara start with madaraas superior? Even after all their time sparring, madara finally awakened sharingan amd still told his father hashirama woykd beat him. Basically throughout life, Hashirama was stronger than madara, kind of how naruto has always been above sasuke since bos, madara fights and hashirama tries to talk, sasuke goes for the kill naruto tries to contain him or knock him out. Indra tried to kill ashura, ashura fought back they both died (ashura has extra power from Hagoromo).

Lol there were Uchiha in the anime and in the manga hashirama was also alone. Yiu madara is strong mentality reaks ''fanboy''. Would hashirama need help against someone he can beat whenever he wants? Relevance of the rest of this is what now?

3. And now I'm reduced to repeating myself against a bleach fan who claims madara can fight hashirama and the entire senju clan for a whole day, when madara plus the nine tails fought A pleading (he wanted reconciliation) hashirama and didn't win....

You posted a scan of the end of the battle from kuramas memories as evidence, and i disproVed it with hashiramas, and there was no kurama on screen at the end of the battle. Yet kushina who states what your scan shows is lying, but yet she was raised from childhood by mito who sealed the ninetails, and her account is irrelevant compared tp kurama who was sealed at a point in the battle that isn't the end.

Hashirama didn't seal kurama, uzumaki mito did, it doesn't matter whether hashirama talked to kurama that could easily be a clone, its stated mito sealed it. Madara even remembers her when naruto is stated to be an uzumaki (does madara acknowledge irrelevant people), When shinsu senju was used was there a valley in the ground there, a hashirama thats collapsing... Lets see... Minato the fuin jutsu specialist said sealing kurama all at once would be impossible for him To do (he wasn't out of chakra like hashirama was), but a hashirama thats not able to walk straight is going to seal the nine tails???

Yes, she sealed it to better aid him in the battle against madara.

Bump

@wushu59: of course it’s a bump it’s 6 months ago lol

Limbo solos

I'd back Madara but honestly not sure with Perfect Susanoo restricted

I'm one of those people who thinks War Arc BSM doesn't scale to Juubito and he only won due to plot and Talk no Jutsu

Madara stomps, naruto has no counter for limbo and his woodstyle supresses tailed beast chakra to top it off he got blitzed in sage mode by this same madara but without the rinnegan

BSM is ten times above BM. BSM fought Juubito. People have to be insane to believe that Madara without Juubi can even fight this version.

Naruto.

I give it to Madara.

@asurakj: and madara was implied to be capable of facing and weakening juubito.

Just cuz naruto was the MC and had the screentime of taking on juubito does not mean he is the only one who can, even EMS Sasuke was in the fight, unless you somehow think EMS Sasuke is also stronger than Madara LMAO.

The only version of madara that BSM Naruto might be trouble for is EMS Madara without kurama, just PS vs BSM kurama avatar. But...

> Alive EMS madara with kurama shit on naruto with 11 bijuu dama infused with PS blade. Madara could spam more bijuu dama (11) and use his PS to further amp the BD, naruto is dying lmao. Naruto is amping half kurama with Sage mode, madara is amping full kurama with perfect susano, how the hell are they on the same level??

> Edo madara beats BSM naruto with bijuu supressing power (wood style) + PS + hax (immortality/regeneration, rinnegan hax, infinite stamina, chakra rods etc). Madara can keep spamming meteor all day till BSM naruto is out of chakra.

• DC/AP - Madara

• Experience - Madara

• Hax - Madara

• Versatility - Madara

• Stamina/chakra - Madara

Funny how the matchup shifted from rinne tensei madara to other versions of madara that still shit on naruto. Naruto and his half kurama is not doing jack shit to either EMS Madara with kurama or edo madara.

Make it EMS madara without kurama and we have a fight.

Madara still stomps

Edit: I'm so surprised people are even saying naruto wins this. He got low diff by edo madara already. Then naruto gets sage mode but madara also gets sage mode (showing that the result would already be the same) and gets another boost from returning to life. People severely wank/overhype him fighting juubito like he could have actually solo that fight

Madara still stomps

Madara wins. by on panel feats, Naruto ch659-ch660

Madara.

Madara curbs