BSM Naruto VS 1/2 Rinnegan SM Madara

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RDCDesmond

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Poll BSM Naruto VS 1/2 Rinnegan SM Madara (31 votes)

SM 1/2 Rinnegan Madara 81%
BSM Naruto 19%

What if in a alternate timeline instead of rushing, Madara wants to personally beat Naruto before he used Gedou Statue

50 Meter Distance

PS restricted

Naruto has knowledge on Mokuton

Naruto has 10 mins in his power up

Gedou Statue Restricted

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RDCDesmond

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Can Madara take down BSM and complete his plans ?

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TheEmperor95

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Yes. Madara bodies him. Nothing really stopping a wood dragon alone from taking down naruto again

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MattyBoi

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AnimeFreak1

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Madara bodies

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Supermanforever

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Madara loltsomps.

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UltimateSage

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Still can't do anything about the limbo gg

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CyberBlades22

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#7  Edited By CyberBlades22

Madara stomps especially with limbo, I don't think BSM Naruto would win against even edo Madara

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ManimalMan

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we already saw this version of madara one shot this version of naruto+8 other bijuu. he stomps.

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cupofreality

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we already saw this version of madara one shot this version of naruto+8 other bijuu. he stomps.

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Manofthunderbolts65

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Limbo solos

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uchihaghost

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This literally happened in the manga OP... You don't need people telling you.

BSM naruto is not beating any version of madara bar kid/old madara. Alive EMS madara madara and edo madara still beat BSM Naruto.

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UltimateSage

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> Alive EMS madara madara and edo madara still beat BSM Naruto.

No they don’t lmao 😂

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ManimalMan

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WhatamIseeing

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Madara stomps

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UltimateSage

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@manimalman: Edo because of “not dying” yes, take that away and it’s Naruto all the way. EMS is stronger than edo, just without the unlimited chakra and regen. He loses to Naruto too

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BacktoBasic301

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Madara completely bodies. Wood Dragon takes care of the Nine Tails and Limbo anhilates Naruto.

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ManimalMan

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@manimalman: Edo because of “not dying” yes, take that away and it’s Naruto all the way. EMS is stronger than edo, just without the unlimited chakra and regen. He loses to Naruto too

edo madara even without regen and unlimited chakra is still stronger than BSM naruto. He already low diffed BM naruto with a wood dragon. His susanoo is alone is on par with kurama, factor in things like meteors, wood release, rinnegan techniques etc and its easy to see BSM doesn't stack up.

EMS madara is way weaker than edo madara. He's got the rinnegan,wood release, yin/yang release and 50+ years of knowledge and experience. EMS is the only version of madara that BSM has a chance against since he's only around base hashirama level.

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TheEmperor95

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@ultimatesage: how do you think that naruto beats madara? Especially edo madara who took away his BM avatar with a single wood dragon

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Asurakj

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Senjutsu makes a huge difference

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UltimateSage

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@ultimatesage: how do you think that naruto beats madara? Especially edo madara who took away his BM avatar with a single wood dragon

Since everyone knows this guy hasn't read a thing in naruto, I won't even bother. Now to the real one

edo madara even without regen and unlimited chakra is still stronger than BSM naruto.

Find that very hard to believe, but go on.

He already low diffed BM naruto with a wood dragon.

That was so because of naruto not knowing of the absorption properties if the wood Dragon and him directly confronting it and as madara said, him being distracted by the Kakashi vs obito fight. Since he has that knowledge now, that would more than likely not happen. Also, Killer Bee damn near tore through the wood Dragon after a while, BM could have done that let alone BSM.

His susanoo is alone is on par with kurama,

He's PS would be weaker as an edo, even then it's equal to 100% Kurama, we already know Bijuu+Jinchuriki is stronger than Bijuu alone. BM Naruto is as strong as 100% kurama cuz he only has half of him, and 100% is equal to PS......add in Sage Mode and PS/100% Kurama get left behind.

factor in things like meteors, wood release, rinnegan techniques etc and its easy to see BSM doesn't stack up.

Meteor is really not relevant, wood release (a clone of Naruto already took care of that early in the war arc), rinnegan abilities (he wouldn't have to worry about these really). And without the unlimited chakra, madara can't use half of these in a battle.

EMS madara is way weaker than edo madara.

No, Hashirama wouldn't have said what he said if this was the case.

He's got the rinnegan,wood release, yin/yang release and 50+ years of knowledge and experience.

Which is nice, but he has mastered the EMS way more than the rinnegan or wood release, and the 50+ years of experience was done not in battle for the most part. What jutsus does the yin/yang release give madara? I don't remember any😅

EMS is the only version of madara that BSM has a chance against since he's only around base hashirama level.

EMS would be the easier one to beat yes.

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TheEmperor95

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@ultimatesage: I can assure you my knowledge of naruto is as good if not better. Tbh it's most likely better mr adult naruto isn't nerfed into the ground. But if you want to avoid that debate to spare yourself that L I understand

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TheEmperor95

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#22  Edited By TheEmperor95

People seem to forget that naruto has like 10 min in BSM. The fact that they think naruto could beat madara in 10 minutes would mean that they think naruto is at the very least dozens of times stronger then the entire senju clan including hashirama and tobirama as madara fought the whole clan by himself for an entire day before he was defeated. Yet they think naruto in 10 minutes can do what that whole clan couldn't? LMAO

Also BM naruto is not equal to 100% kurama lol

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UltimateSage

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#23  Edited By UltimateSage

> says he has more knowledge on the verse

> goes on to say more incorrect information about the verse

.................lmao gold

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TheEmperor95

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@ultimatesage: still waiting on that reply and how any of what I just said is wrong. Are you trying to say that madara didn't battle the entire senju clan himself?

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/16

So that above scan from the manga didn't happen? Or are you suggesting that naruto doesn't have a time limit on BSM? Or are you saying that beating an opponent in a fraction of a time as someone else doesn't make you stronger?

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Zuriel-el

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Naruto

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: how does naruto win this?

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UltimateSage

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#27  Edited By UltimateSage

More upon more misinformation 0.0 wow crazy and sad lmao

And go ahead with the waiting, ain't nobody want to debate with someone with zero knowledge on the subject

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Zuriel-el

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@theemperor95: Madara never battled the entire senju clan, it was hashirama, after hashirama defeates him the senju came out of their holes.

As for this battle madara lacks the fire power to put down naruto. Limbo can't do any real damage, kurama can kill madara when limbo runs out of time.

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Zabuza777

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#29  Edited By Zabuza777

Sage Madara

BM Naruto is way more powerful the EMS Sasuke though

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Zabuza777

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#30  Edited By Zabuza777

Wait.

BSM? As in Bijuu plus Sage?

Is that before or after Hagoromo power up?

If it's after, Naruto should win.

If it's before, Madara stomps.

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: look at the scan link I posted in post 24. Tobirama and the rest of the senju are there and have clearly been in battle as tobirama had wounds on him.

Naruto has like 10 minutes in BSM. Madara easily wipes the floor with him once he's out of the mode and already ripped kurama out of naruto in said mode

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TheEmperor95

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@ultimatesage: good to see your concession. If you can't even try to say what was "misinformation" then to everyone else you just look like someone talking out of your ass and admitting that you have less knowledge

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ManimalMan

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That was so because of naruto not knowing of the absorption properties if the wood Dragon and him directly confronting it and as madara said, him being distracted by the Kakashi vs obito fight. Since he has that knowledge now, that would more than likely not happen. Also, Killer Bee damn near tore through the wood Dragon after a while, BM could have done that let alone BSM.

Knowledge wasn't the issue. Naruto already knew wood style was able suppress bijuu chakra, he just wasnt able to fight off the wood dragon before it drained him. I dont remember B dealing with a wood dragon just normal wood release and the rods.

He's PS would be weaker as an edo, even then it's equal to 100% Kurama, we already know Bijuu+Jinchuriki is stronger than Bijuu alone. BM Naruto is as strong as 100% kurama cuz he only has half of him, and 100% is equal to PS......add in Sage Mode and PS/100% Kurama get left behind.

Edo mads said his PS is on par with the bijuu powerwise and was strong enough to fight hashi's wood golem. Kabuto also mentions that madara was revived stronger compared to edos.

having a jinchuriki helps a bijuu use its power more efficiently, it doesnt actually add any raw power. chakra is also weird in that its greater than the some its parts. Like how the juubi is stated to be stronger than all the bijuu combined or how having 2 rinnegan lets madara go from 1 limbo to 4. We even see this win kurama gets split, he shrinks done to a lot smaller than half his size. So nah he isnt as strong as 100% kurama.

Meteor is really not relevant, wood release (a clone of Naruto already took care of that early in the war arc), rinnegan abilities (he wouldn't have to worry about these really). And without the unlimited chakra, madara can't use half of these in a battle.

He handled a casual wood release jutsu that madara was just testing out. When madara hit him with a more serious jutsu(wood dragon) naruto got rocked. madara has absurdly high chakra reserves said be second only to hashirama and that was before he got hashi cells to amp his reserves even higher. chakra won't be an issue.

rinnegan jutsu are definitely gonna be a problem, the preta path alone nullifies most of naruto's kit.

No, Hashirama wouldn't have said what he said if this was the case.

said what?

Which is nice, but he has mastered the EMS way more than the rinnegan or wood release, and the 50+ years of experience was done not in battle for the most part. What jutsus does the yin/yang release give madara? I don't remember any😅

iirc he said he could recreate all of hashirama's jutsu so thats definitely some mastery and he had a better handle of the rinnegan than nagato. Yin/yang release lets him make chakra rods that he used to beat tobirama and hashirsma and can suppress naruto even more. the rest of the abilities it gave him were more supplementary like the seal on obitos heart.

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Decaffeinated

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BSM Naruto would stomps 100% Kurama. And when was it stated he has a time limit?

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ManimalMan

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@decaffeinated: when he first transformed kurama said that because theyre link wasnt stable he could only stay bijuu mode for 5 minutes, then 8 minutes the next time.

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WhatIsWritten

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madara can win if he gets a good hit with perfect susanos sword

limbo is useless, stop bringing that up

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UltimateSage

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@manimalman:

Knowledge wasn't the issue. Naruto already knew wood style was able suppress bijuu chakra, he just wasnt able to fight off the wood dragon before it drained him. I dont remember B dealing with a wood dragon just normal wood release and the rods.

Knowledge was the issue, he even gets informed by Bee that the wood jutsu absorbs/suppresses Bijuu powers then goes on to compare then to Yamato's wood jutsu. Bee dealt with the wood constructs that were made from the wood dragon, which was doing the same thing as the wood dragon.

Edo mads said his PS is on par with the bijuu powerwise and was strong enough to fight hashi's wood golem. Kabuto also mentions that madara was revived stronger compared to edos.

Yeah, all of which is equal to 100% Kurama, Kabuto has not seen another Madara to know if he got stronger as an edo.

having a jinchuriki helps a bijuu use its power more efficiently, it doesnt actually add any raw power. chakra is also weird in that its greater than the some its parts.

A jinchuriki + Bijuu is stated to be stronger than just the Bijuu alone, and yes, a part of that is because they can focus the Bijuu's power better, but also the fact that the host is getting buffed to hell from the chakra.

Like how the juubi is stated to be stronger than all the bijuu combined or how having 2 rinnegan lets madara go from 1 limbo to 4. We even see this win kurama gets split, he shrinks done to a lot smaller than half his size. So nah he isnt as strong as 100% kurama.

I don't get what you're trying to say here, but the Juubi is stronger than all the Bijuus yes. And Naruto getting boosted by half of Kurama for sure gets him to be as strong as the full Kurama.

He handled a casual wood release jutsu that madara was just testing out. When madara hit him with a more serious jutsu(wood dragon) naruto got rocked.

Which was still taken care of by clones of a clone of Naruto. And the wood dragon would now have to tag Naruto now that he has knowledge on them and can attack from afar.

madara has absurdly high chakra reserves said be second only to hashirama and that was before he got hashi cells to amp his reserves even higher. chakra won't be an issue.

Which are nowhere near enough to pull off the shit he did against the Shinobi Alliance or the Gokages. Especially with how both the rinnegan and ems takes tons of chakra.

rinnegan jutsu are definitely gonna be a problem, the preta path alone nullifies most of naruto's kit.

No, not really, he can't absorb a bijuudama, he also can't absorb something he can't react to.

said what?

Alive Madara > Edo Madara

iirc he said he could recreate all of hashirama's jutsu so thats definitely some mastery and he had a better handle of the rinnegan than nagato.

yeah, I doubt he could recreate all of Hashirama's jutsu lol, and better handle of the rinnegan than nagato is true.....there are his eyes.

Yin/yang release lets him make chakra rods that he used to beat tobirama and hashirsma and can suppress naruto even more. the rest of the abilities it gave him were more supplementary like the seal on obitos heart.

The chakra rods can be broken and would have to tag naruto to do their job in the first place. The seal on Obito was done when obito was being given hashirama cells of his body parts after the boulder arc irrc.

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UltimateSage

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#38  Edited By UltimateSage

@manimalman said:

@decaffeinated: when he first transformed kurama said that because theyre link wasnt stable he could only stay bijuu mode for 5 minutes, then 8 minutes the next time.

iirc the time limits were only stated to be for when Naruto is going into his Kurama Avatar, he can be in regular BM without the time limit (ofc if kurama can give him more chakra) just like Minato had been in his since he made the barrier with the Hokages....or the other times naruto was in BM without worrying about a time limit, even making clones in that state,

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ManimalMan

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@ultimatesage: his humanoid cloak disappeared to so doubt it.

we dont know what the time limit was near the end of the fight or even if he still had one so I dont think its a big deal.

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Zuriel-el

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@theemperor95: saying thinga like ''it took the whole senju clan to stop madara'' is absolute nonsense, when hashirama alone would stomp him. Tobirama having injuries is irrelevant, he fought izuna the day before. And madara came to that battle field with other uchiha at his back.

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DoTheTwist_

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#41  Edited By DoTheTwist_

@ultimatesage: Honestly Edo Madara being above BSM isnt farfetched. Wood release just hard counters BM avatars and Madara can handle Senjutsu. EMS should be able to handle him aswell if we look at the fight with Hash, he deflected a full kuramas BB in his impartial susanoo and tanked a country busting explosion to only crack his full Susanoo.

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: 1. Hashirama cam beat him with a full day of fighting as well. Can hashirama solo him sure but did hashirama have back up in that fight yes

2. Madara had no other uchiha with him. In every scan of that encounter there were no other uchiha present only senju. No dead bodies and no uchiha standing around showing that madara was alone. So please show some evidence of the uchiha being there to help madara

3. We don't know if it was the day after that izuna died. What we do know is that all of madara injuries were healed meaning there would be no reason tobirama weren't as well especially since hashirama injuries were also healed. Sure would be strange for just those 2 to heal there injuries after a battle

4. Still curious to know how naruto would defeat him in minutes

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Zuriel-el

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@theemperor95:

Both hashirama and madara came tp that battle field alone.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/15

After madaras defeat any uchiha woukd run away for fear of the senju.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/12

Madara is weaker than Hashirama, its so obvious hashirama states it as fact.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/14

The uchiha themselves knew it and were surrendering to the senju, if madara can't beat them niether can we.

Non of madaras attacks can harm naruto. Plus stating he would rip putthe nine tails when this battle denies him the means to do so is weird.

Madara has to overpower naruto with a half susanoo Tsunade can break, and madara can't absorb physical attacks, limbo won't be able to do jack either, meanwhile narutos attacks will do damage and madara doesn't have zetsu to give him new parts.

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: 1. Those scans you posted were when izuna died...if you go to the scans after those then you will see madara returning at a later point. There are 0 uchiha backing him up

2. Want to go ahead and tell me where I said madara was stronger then hashirama? In my previous post I even said hashirama can beat him in a 1v1. What I want to know is why you think naruto is stronger then hashirama since you say he can beat madara faster then hashirama can?

3. Madara wood dragon alone solo naruto kurama avatar. His wood style could take care of naruto avatar then limbo slaps him around. He could even use limbo to prevent naruto from avoiding his wood style jutsu so susanoo attacks. Naruto tries to use any jutsu and it gets absorbed. He would get embarrassed in h2h combat and he has no genjutsu to speak of. Madara has every advantage

4. Why is madara limited to human susanoo which he could use blind? This same susanoo also protected him from all 9 bijuu hitting him at the same time pretty well. It even tanked kurama spamming down on it just fine and didn't break until the other tailed beasts did the same meaning it's not going to just shatter on any hit like you're suggesting

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Zuriel-el

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@theemperor95:

The first scan shows hashirama alone.

ttp://www.mangareader.net/naruto/624/15

No back up.

2. By claiming madara fought the entire senju clan solo, its implied, especially since this is after madara attained new powers. Edo Hashirama And Alive madara cant compete with jubito, naruto can. And alive hashirama can oneshot madara if he doesn't use kurama.

3. A weaker naruto already broke this. His mokuton jutsu jukai koutan was countered by rasengan wielding clones who were out of chakra, and jukai koin won't work. Anything else? Susanoo ain't perfect, its the same one tsunade broke, and limbo can't do any damage, all it does is make kurama (BSM kurama probably tanks it no diff) fall over thats it, none of madata jutsu can put down any biju while he is in this form. Naruto can Grab susanoo with kuramas tails and kill madara with taijutsu while in biju mode (unles you think madara is jubito tier) or use nine giant rasengan from each tail, if madara decides to absorb them he is open to everything else. Kuramas tail (he can't absorb biju directly, momoahiki couldn't) narutos clones that come to attack etc.

4. Because he has no feats of using perfect susanoo with one eye, even in six paths form, he couldn't bring it out to protect himself from guy, or anyone Else

Besides he wasn't fighting biju sage mode naruto,

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/658/13

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/659/5

Its clearly biju mode.

Biju sage mode is as fast or almost as fast as jubito, ten times stronger than biju mode, and a lot more durable.

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: 1. In the scan directly after that we see the entire senju clan present and battle worn meaning they were just fighting and there were 0 uchiha either dead or subdued meaning they were also fighting madara

2. No where did I imply when I straight up said hashirama would beat madara 1v1. The fact that the whole clan was present doesn't mean that hashirama could win (especially since he beat madara and kurama at the same time) but it also doesn't change that the whole clan was fighting with him

Naruto wasn't doing anything to juubito without minato or tobirama teleporting him. Him and sasuke were only able to do something after obito pulled the 10 tails from his body to begin the IT. Even with all of the help naruto still nearly got killed several times and won via fairy tail levels of nakama plot armor

3. Lmao what?

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/608/8

The wood dragon that madara used stripped the kurama avatar away as you can clearly see. Naruto never did anything to it. Naruto (while amped by kurama managed to stop a basic wood style attack from madara however that used up all his chakra

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/658/13

Kurama already hit madara humanoid susanoo and didn't destroy. In fact it was just fine until all the other tailed beasts hit it at the same time. Naruto is not juubito tier. He was getting tossed and would have died in the first few seconds if facing juubito if not for his backup that could conveniently teleport. The fact that you think BSM is juubito level is laughable. BSM isn't even first form juubi level

4. Madara never used susanoo after he gained his actual rinnegan. He just abused his hax instead since it was far more efficient. Him using PS isn't even a big deal as his humanoid susanoo tanked an attack from naruto just fine

Got a scan for when sage mode was said to give a 10 times boost. Honestly don't remember that being stated

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Nondre

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#47  Edited By Nondre

BSM Naruto beats anybody under Juubito in power and EMS Sasuke does not scale up to either of these guys.

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Zuriel-el

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@theemperor95:

1. They weren't there at the beginning, are you saying they came to help hashirama fight some fodder (yes at the timethats what madara was to him).

2. Why would ot take a whole day for the entire senji clan to beat madara, when hashirama alone can do it against madara and kurama in the same amount time while holding back.

3. Thats not BSM naruto (Biju sage mode), thats biju mode, who is ten times weaker, in every way. I asked If you think madara would be able to match Jubito, you didn't answer.

4. You already know that the cursed seal boost a persons stats by ten times right, the thing is cursed seal is actually an imperfect form of sage mode, so me saying naruto gets a ten times boost is lowballing, its actually higher.

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TheEmperor95

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@zuriel-el: 1. First madara wasn't fodder to hashirama. He was inferior but not fodder. It doesn't take a full day of battling to beat fodder. Second yes that's what happened as they are there and they are clearly battle worn. They were I'm battle and the lack of uchiha present means that madara is who they were fighting

2. Because madara would solo the entire senju clan if it wasn't for hashirama. It was established that only hashirama could beat him. Hashirama wasn't even holding back when madara directly attacked the village hence the reason why he killed madara

3. The cursed seal is a modified sage mode based off jugo sage mode. I don't remember a single time where they said it was an imperfect sage mode. It's also odd that you'd apply that naruto when jugo and his clan were known to be very unique when it came to sage mode. If it was a 10 times boost for all sage mode users then hashirama should have had any trouble with madara and kurama. He's already stronger then madara and kurama individually in base so a 10x boost would make them fodder to him yet it still took a whole say for him to win. Also when madara was absorbed hashirama sage mode he was unimpressed with the amount of strength he got.

Honestly even with a 10x boost I don't see how that would change anything. Madara literally toyed with naruto and still took away his avatar. A limbo wood dragon combo just strips the kurama avatar away again. Naruto wouldn't be able to do a thing about it as he can't stop limbo

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Zuriel-el

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#50  Edited By Zuriel-el

@theemperor95: Madara was fodder, shinsu senju could step on susanoo by accident. It does when you're talking and letting them do all the fighting while you simply try to defend and wear them out iemake them finish their chakra. This is how ashura and indra fight.

2. Tobirama would be able kill him the same way he killed izuna, If not for madara getting perfect susanoo and being able to use it for extended periods of time without draw backs, before thi battle madara had no such thing.. And its shown in the first scan they both came alone, saying madara could last a whole day fighting the entire senju clan is nuts. madara only defeated edo tobirama due to hashiramas sage mode.

3. Kabuto called it inferior, and hashirama didn't fight in sage mode against just one of them, It was both, he put kurama out, and at some point kurama rejoined the battle because mito had to step in and eal away the nine tails so hashirama could focus on madara, After this point it was the usual lets be friends nonsense from hashirama and the i will kill you mantra from madara at the end of this exchange, hashirama decided to kill him when he saw madara was too far off the rails.

Cursed seal is an inferior sage mode.

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/579/12

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/579/13

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/579/16

http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/579/17

Perfect sages>curse seal.