Avatar image for sophisticated_ignorance
#1 Posted by Sophisticated_Ignorance (1194 posts) - - Show Bio

Magneto ( Young Prime Magneto with ALL FOX feats however)

Sebastian Shaw

Quicksilver (MCU)

Scarlet Witch

Juggernaunt

Lady Deathstrike

vs

Justice League, all feats allowed.

Standard gear for everyone. No prep. Everyone in character, win by KO/Death. Fight takes place in the middle of Times Square. Who takes it?

Avatar image for bodhbh
#2 Edited by Bodhbh (102 posts) - - Show Bio

Fox Team - too much hax and less morals.

Avatar image for firestormfate1919
#3 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (4379 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League wins without much trouble, Superman solos.

He could conceivably blitz everyone, and no one here has the damage output to drop him. Juggernaut is vastly outclassed and Shaw can absorb force but never remotely the level that Clark can dish out.

Wonder Woman could also solo if not for Magneto, and Flash could also conceivably blitz everybody but Shaw and Juggernaut.

Avatar image for sophisticated_ignorance
#4 Posted by Sophisticated_Ignorance (1194 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League wins without much trouble, Superman solos.

He could conceivably blitz everyone, and no one here has the damage output to drop him. Juggernaut is vastly outclassed and Shaw can absorb force but never remotely the level that Clark can dish out.

Wonder Woman could also solo if not for Magneto, and Flash could also conceivably blitz everybody but Shaw and Juggernaut.

Please stop. Superman isn't soloing anything, not saying JL can't win, wouldn't of made the thread if I didn't think they could, but he's not soloing. Nobody as the damage output to hurt him? Mags was lifting stadiums with little effort and almost tore the planet in half. Not to mention I'd like to see if Supes can even get past Mags shields.

Avatar image for rr79
#5 Posted by RR79 (628 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League wins without much trouble, Superman solos.

He could conceivably blitz everyone, and no one here has the damage output to drop him. Juggernaut is vastly outclassed and Shaw can absorb force but never remotely the level that Clark can dish out.

Wonder Woman could also solo if not for Magneto, and Flash could also conceivably blitz everybody but Shaw and Juggernaut.

Can't absorb anything remotely the level that Clark can dish out? He absorbed a nuclear reactor. That's pretty close. Granted, it was done over the space of a few minutes. That being said, I do believe JL wins pretty easily, just don't think Superman solo's.

Avatar image for vengefulshot
#6 Posted by vengefulshot (1922 posts) - - Show Bio

@bodhbh said:

Fox Team - too much hax and less morals.

This, DCEU Superman isn't soloing anything. In fact DCEU WW> DCEU Superman imo.

Avatar image for firestormfate1919
#7 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (4379 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: @sophisticated_ignorance:

Please stop. Superman isn't soloing anything, not saying JL can't win, wouldn't of made the thread if I didn't think they could, but he's not soloing. Nobody as the damage output to hurt him? Mags was lifting stadiums with little effort and almost tore the planet in half. Not to mention I'd like to see if Supes can even get past Mags shields.

I disagree, I mean let's break down his opposition.

  • Lady Deathstrike: A street-leveler, Fox Adamantium lacks the feats to bypass Clark's durability, and even if it could she can't touch him. He can one-shot her, as we've seen the effect enough concussive force can have on individuals with HF's. Should be a non-factor against Clark.
  • MCU Quicksilver: The only thing he has going for him is speed, and he's maybe Mach 2-3 compared to Superman being around Mach 55. Definitely a non-factor against Clark.
  • MCU Scarlet Witch: Also a non-factor against Clark. Her TK is strong and very hax, but it just doesn't operate at this tier of power, something like an explosion from a bomb vest is enough to bypass it's max strength. Superman will barely feel it.
  • Juggernaut: He's just outmatched across the board. His strength isn't remotely comparable to Clark, nor is his durability. That's without factoring speed, Heat-Vision, flight. Also largely a non-factor.

The only two threats to Clark would be Shaw and Erik.

  • Shaw: Has never shown absorption of nearly this much concussive force, and without NLF Clark should one-shot. Even if he does absorb Clark's hits, he's never shown remotely the offensive output to harm Clark in anyway. At best he's a tank who Clark can eventually just drop in the middle of the ocean, and at worst he gets blitzed and dropped off the bat. Either way, less of a threat and more of just a risk to outlast his teammates.
  • Erik: Obviously he's the top dog in terms of raw power. He has a level of raw power that Clark can't hope to match at all, but he can't focus this raw power in a manner that makes him a threat to Clark. If Clark can tank being punched through 6 buildings and a nuke, no amount of metal shrapnel being propelled is gonna do much. Erik can tear a city to pieces all he wants, it doesn't help here because he can't focus his power in a manner that he can kill Clark. Lifting something as large as the stadium is again immensly impressive, but irrelevent in combat with Superman. It was a slow process that requires continuous concentration, Superman can very easily just move out of the path of the stadium, or blitz while Erik is focussed on moving it at all. The bottom line is that Erik simply hasn't demonstrated the ability to harm Clark, for that matter no one in the Brotherhood has. As for the Shields, they don't have the feats to survive someone who can lift a multi-thousand ton building casually and drag a 60,000 ton ship, not even close. None of the X-Men are at that tier of strength, so obviously it just doesn't have those feats. Even then, Electromagnetic Fields aren't gonna prevent heat energy, especially because they allow for oxygen diffusal, so Heat-Vision should pass right through. Freeze-Breath too for that matter.

Superman doesn't solo because he outmatches these guys in raw power, but because they simply can't hurt him and he definitely can hurt them.

Can't absorb anything remotely the level that Clark can dish out? He absorbed a nuclear reactor. That's pretty close. Granted, it was done over the space of a few minutes. That being said, I do believe JL wins pretty easily, just don't think Superman solo's.

That's my bad, I probably should have been more clear. I was talking more about concussive force on this level, which Shaw has shown less ability to synthesize (which makes sense because the energy release is much more catalyzed). He never faced an opponent remotely this strong, so he just doesn't have those feats. It's possible he could tank a full-on hit from Superman, but that's where NLF comes into play. For the same reason we can't assume someone like DCEU Doomsday can evolve to become infinitely powerful, we can't assume Shaw can absorb exponentially more concussive force than he ever demonstrated within his abilities.

Additionally, nuclear reactors are designed to emitt constant but mitigated levels of radiation. Radiation doesn't even need to be transmitted, it's absorbed by regular humans, so of course Shaw will have less issue absorbing that than concussive force. The levels of radiation given off by a typical reactor core from the 1960's over say, a year, is gonna be about 3,900 kilowatt-hours tops, so about 0.00012506783 per second. So over about 2 seconds that's really only about 9,888,854 joules of energy, given the active radioactive chain isn't in play. Now, let's compare that to dragging a 60,000 ton ship, and we get about 251,040,000,000,000,000 joules of energy, concentrated over that same 2 seconds in the form of a full-body hit. Even with the reactor feat and assuming he can absorb kinetic energy just as well as nuclear, Shaw is waaaaaaaayyyyyy out of his weight class against Clark.

I just think Clark solos because, breaking it down, no one can really hurt him on the either team. Meanwhile, I don't think he'll have any issue dropping everybody.

Avatar image for rbt
#8 Edited by RBT (16730 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for mrmonster
#9 Posted by mrmonster (5744 posts) - - Show Bio

The Justice League

Avatar image for helloman
#10 Posted by Helloman (9102 posts) - - Show Bio

The Justice League wins.

Avatar image for firestormfate1919
#11 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (4379 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@firestormfate1919: How is DCEU Superman Mach 55?

That's just what I always put as my rough estimate based on them moving outside Diana's perception.

I think it's probably hard to do a truly accurate calc on his top speed at this point, especially because something like running while Diana is falling, which is gaugeable, isn't his best feat.

Barry's most impressive showing by far was moving, along with Clark, faster than Diana could percieve. For average humans, basic perception generally begins at about 50-60 ms, registering an image in motion is closer to 80 ms within binocular vision. Barry moved maybe 20 feet while within her sightline before moving behind her. He seemed faster from here, but apart from everything being motionless in the air there's nothing to measure based on. That means Barry would need to be something like 273 mph to be invisible to the human eye in this scenario. If Diana can move roughly as fast as bullets (she's moving in pace with the bullets even if she's not necessarily covering the same distance), that puts her at like Mach 3 or so. That's around 153 times faster than average human reflex speed.

If we assume she has the same reflex-perception ratio as humans do, just faster, that would mean Barry at his fastest (we've seen) is somewhere around 41,769 mph, or Mach 55. My estimate would put him somewhere around there, even if it is a feat with a lot of relative factors. He's not nearly on the level of high-tier speedsters like DCCW Flash, Fox Quicksilver, or Smallville Clark, but still solidly above low-tiers like MCU Quicksilver.

Avatar image for rbt
#12 Posted by RBT (16730 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for firestormfate1919
#13 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (4379 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for rr79
#14 Edited by RR79 (628 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestormfate1919: While I do agree that saying something like Shaw could absorb anything, I absolutely disagree that if he could absorb Superman's blows he couldn't put out enough offensive damage. That is the way Shaw's powers work, he absorbs what is thrown at him and then sends it back out in the same amount of force, or more if he has absorbed some from somewhere else. So IF, he is able to absorb a blow from Superman, then he IS going to hurt Superman with the return blast. Again, that is only IF he is able to absorb a blow from Superman.