Broly (DBS) vs Jiren

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AvengersAsssemb

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Broly >= Beerus =/= Jiren (Beyond-Limits) > Jiren (Full Power) > Belmod

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TheOneAboveLife

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Jiren is GOD tier during ToP, then he moves to low angel tier when he goes into 100% power mode, and LB Jiren likey angel+ or high angel tier at least.

I don't think Broly will even reach GoD level honestly. That would be a bit much since he is just a mortal and does not have god ki...

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GrandTOAA

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@fukutora: Yet In Resurrection of F, Golden Frieza was scared as hell, seeing Beerus on earth. Anyway all this argument is based on just the fact that Beerus was stated to use 70% of his strength in the movie, which mind you, was retconned in Super. You keep saying Beerus didn't get stronger but how is that relevant when we haven't seen his full strength? Imagine I am 80 times stronger than you and you manage to cut it down to 50 times, I am technically still stronger than you whether I increase in strength or not. SSBk10 wasn't able to beat Hit, so are you saying Hit is stronger than Beerus too? Beerus has more feats in speed, strength, planetary destruction, energy propjection, Hakai and also, incomplete Ultra Insinct. All you can use agaisnt him is just faulty calculations

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Shintoki

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@fukutora: Yet In Resurrection of F, Golden Frieza was scared as hell, seeing Beerus on earth. Anyway all this argument is based on just the fact that Beerus was stated to use 70% of his strength in the movie, which mind you, was retconned in Super. You keep saying Beerus didn't get stronger but how is that relevant when we haven't seen his full strength? Imagine I am 80 times stronger than you and you manage to cut it down to 50 times, I am technically still stronger than you whether I increase in strength or not. SSBk10 wasn't able to beat Hit, so are you saying Hit is stronger than Beerus too? Beerus has more feats in speed, strength, planetary destruction, energy propjection, Hakai and also, incomplete Ultra Insinct. All you can use agaisnt him is just faulty calculations

It wasn't retconned

DBS film continuity =/= DBS TV continuity. just a nitpick, otherwise your argument was pretty well

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Shintoki

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we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

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#456  Edited By AvengersAsssemb

@shintoki said:

we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

Clearly Goku and Vegeta surpassed their limits in the Tournament of Power and were able to use EVO SSB/KK SSB. However, this doesn't mean that they could willing tap into these abilities. In all likeliness, they lost them after the Tournament of Power since the epilogue of Dragon Ball Super shows them in their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms, and not EVO SSB/KK SSB.

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Cramem

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Everytime i come to comicvine i see this topic.

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Shintoki

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@shintoki said:

we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

Clearly Goku and Vegeta surpassed their limits in the Tournament of Power and were able to use EVO SSB/KK SSB. However, this doesn't mean that they could willing tap into this abilities. In all likeliness, they lost them after the Tournament of Power since the epilogue of Dragon Ball Super shows them in their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms, and not EVO SSB/KK SSB.

You are not getting what im saying

DBS film continuity is TORIYAMA CONTINUITY. neither MSSB or EVO/KK SSB exist since either of those are TOYOTARO/TOEI CREATIONS that NEVER existed in the manuscript

and i repeat myself: DBS film continuity: (Goku and the friends return / BOG / ROF / Broly) =/= DBS TV continuity =/= DBS manga continuity

we are just gonna have to wait till either manga starts the broly saga/arc or the TV return and so.

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AvengersAsssemb

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@shintoki said:
@avengersasssemb said:
@shintoki said:

we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

Clearly Goku and Vegeta surpassed their limits in the Tournament of Power and were able to use EVO SSB/KK SSB. However, this doesn't mean that they could willing tap into this abilities. In all likeliness, they lost them after the Tournament of Power since the epilogue of Dragon Ball Super shows them in their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms, and not EVO SSB/KK SSB.

You are not getting what im saying

DBS film continuity is TORIYAMA CONTINUITY. neither MSSB or EVO/KK SSB exist since either of those are TOYOTARO/TOEI CREATIONS that NEVER existed in the manuscript

and i repeat myself: DBS film continuity: (Goku and the friends return / BOG / ROF / Broly) =/= DBS TV continuity =/= DBS manga continuity

we are just gonna have to wait till either manga starts the broly saga/arc or the TV return and so.

Toriyama's continuity is Dragon Ball Super, which coincides with the universe where Dragon Ball: Super Broly takes place.

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Shintoki

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#460  Edited By Shintoki

@avengersasssemb said:
@shintoki said:
@avengersasssemb said:
@shintoki said:

we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

Clearly Goku and Vegeta surpassed their limits in the Tournament of Power and were able to use EVO SSB/KK SSB. However, this doesn't mean that they could willing tap into this abilities. In all likeliness, they lost them after the Tournament of Power since the epilogue of Dragon Ball Super shows them in their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms, and not EVO SSB/KK SSB.

You are not getting what im saying

DBS film continuity is TORIYAMA CONTINUITY. neither MSSB or EVO/KK SSB exist since either of those are TOYOTARO/TOEI CREATIONS that NEVER existed in the manuscript

and i repeat myself: DBS film continuity: (Goku and the friends return / BOG / ROF / Broly) =/= DBS TV continuity =/= DBS manga continuity

we are just gonna have to wait till either manga starts the broly saga/arc or the TV return and so.

Toriyama's continuity is Dragon Ball Super, which coincides with the universe where Dragon Ball: Super Broly takes place.

there are three DBS by this point in case you missed, with the film one being the most one tori is directly involved in

im failing to see whats the point of this

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AvengersAsssemb

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@shintoki said:
@avengersasssemb said:
@shintoki said:
@avengersasssemb said:
@shintoki said:

we dont know jackshit about how TOP played out in the film continuity

neither goku or vegeta have EVO SSB/KKSSB or Mastered blue in it, None of the previous scaling works with the film. we are gonna need to wait till (manga/TV) Broly appears and then scale it

Clearly Goku and Vegeta surpassed their limits in the Tournament of Power and were able to use EVO SSB/KK SSB. However, this doesn't mean that they could willing tap into this abilities. In all likeliness, they lost them after the Tournament of Power since the epilogue of Dragon Ball Super shows them in their ordinary Super Saiyan Blue forms, and not EVO SSB/KK SSB.

You are not getting what im saying

DBS film continuity is TORIYAMA CONTINUITY. neither MSSB or EVO/KK SSB exist since either of those are TOYOTARO/TOEI CREATIONS that NEVER existed in the manuscript

and i repeat myself: DBS film continuity: (Goku and the friends return / BOG / ROF / Broly) =/= DBS TV continuity =/= DBS manga continuity

we are just gonna have to wait till either manga starts the broly saga/arc or the TV return and so.

Toriyama's continuity is Dragon Ball Super, which coincides with the universe where Dragon Ball: Super Broly takes place.

there are three DBS by this point in case you missed, with the film one being the most one tori is directly involved in

im failing to see whats the point of this

No, there is only Toriyama's head-cannon, and that's all that matters.

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Shintoki

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GrandTOAA

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Which of them have better durability?

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Ouroborik

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I seriously don't know where people are getting some of their Broly info from, making up all these new forms and crap that wasn't anywhere in the movie. Broly only had three forms:

  • Base Form
  • Great Ape Power Unleashed
  • Super Saiyan (which I suppose some people will call Legendary Super Saiyan)

Everything else is headcanon.

Broly's power also didn't increase as the fight went by, he just learned how to fight better because he didn't have any prior experience fighting humanoids.

Where are people getting that "FP Broly> LSSJ Broly> SSJ Broly" info from?

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Standardized

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I seriously don't know where people are getting some of their Broly info from, making up all these new forms and crap that wasn't anywhere in the movie. Broly only had three forms:

  • Base Form
  • Great Ape Power Unleashed
  • Super Saiyan (which I suppose some people will call Legendary Super Saiyan)

Everything else is headcanon.

Broly's power also didn't increase as the fight went by, he just learned how to fight better because he didn't have any prior experience fighting humanoids.

Where are people getting that "FP Broly> LSSJ Broly> SSJ Broly" info from?

SSJ and LSSJ are different forms.

No idea what "fp broly" is tho lol

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@ouroborik said:

I seriously don't know where people are getting some of their Broly info from, making up all these new forms and crap that wasn't anywhere in the movie. Broly only had three forms:

  • Base Form
  • Great Ape Power Unleashed
  • Super Saiyan (which I suppose some people will call Legendary Super Saiyan)

Everything else is headcanon.

Broly's power also didn't increase as the fight went by, he just learned how to fight better because he didn't have any prior experience fighting humanoids.

Where are people getting that "FP Broly> LSSJ Broly> SSJ Broly" info from?

SSJ and LSSJ are different forms.

No idea what "fp broly" is tho lol

When did Broly ever switch between Super Saiyan forms? He only reached a Super Saiyan form when Frieza killed Paragus and he never powered up again after that.

"FP Broly" is mentioned in the first pages of this thread, I also have no idea what it means.

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Standardized

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@standardized said:
@ouroborik said:

I seriously don't know where people are getting some of their Broly info from, making up all these new forms and crap that wasn't anywhere in the movie. Broly only had three forms:

  • Base Form
  • Great Ape Power Unleashed
  • Super Saiyan (which I suppose some people will call Legendary Super Saiyan)

Everything else is headcanon.

Broly's power also didn't increase as the fight went by, he just learned how to fight better because he didn't have any prior experience fighting humanoids.

Where are people getting that "FP Broly> LSSJ Broly> SSJ Broly" info from?

SSJ and LSSJ are different forms.

No idea what "fp broly" is tho lol

When did Broly ever switch between Super Saiyan forms? He only reached a Super Saiyan form when Frieza killed Paragus and he never powered up again after that.

"FP Broly" is mentioned in the first pages of this thread, I also have no idea what it means.

He powered up once again in the dimension he and gogeta were fighting in.

Loading Video...

Skip to 3.30. Im guessing this is the broly they're talking about when they say FP.

IMO he still loses to jiren.

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#468  Edited By Mike_Fowler

@standardized: @ouroborik: Broly’s full power is deemed separate from his regular super Saiyan form (I.e. as you showed, when he powers up and loses the armour)

Back when the movie came out, designs were released showing his various forms. And from what I remember, his released character sheets counted one as his regular super saiyan form, and the other as super saiyan (full power)

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Standardized

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@standardized: @ouroborik: Broly’s full power is deemed separate from his regular super Saiyan form (I.e. as you showed, when he powers up and loses the armour)

Back when the movie came out, designs were released showing his various forms. And from what I remember, his released character sheets counted one as his regular super saiyan form, and the other as super saiyan (full power)

So is super saiyan (full power) The same as LSSJ/Beseker?

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Mike_Fowler

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@standardized: from how Shintani describes it, it seems like that’s the case for Broly

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darth_omega_47

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Let's keep in mind that Broly starts off light and has very little fighting skill, Jiren will do him like he did Kefla, remember, Broly movie takes place just a few months or so after ToP. Don't you think that Jiren would be.....oh.... TRAINING for his next meeting with Goku? Jirens skill and his control over his power is immense and he only went for a kill once against Goku's friends. No rules here, Jiren will obliterate him.

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#472  Edited By KeyFirstnaten

Broly (LSSJ) >= Beerus (Full Power) > Jiren (Full Power) > Belmod

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Broly might be the "most powerful foe Kakarot has faced" but Jiren was never a foe...

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First off, Let's start with comparing their stats.

Broly managed to beat Goku and Vegeta both at SSB, though they put up somewhat of a fight. Since it takes place after the TOP, they're probably stronger, but probably not to the level of SSBKKx20 or SSBE. He also managed to stand out for a while against SSB Gogeta.

Jiren beat both SSBKKx20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta while being suppressed. And it should be noted that he wasn't serious. He got beaten at first by MUI Goku but match him again with his Super Full Power/Limit Breaker form and even surpassed him in power. But got defeated by a rage boost.

So the difference in stats are great. But Broly gets stronger as he fight. He managed to pummel SSG Goku shortly after matching base Goku. This is only countered when the opponent is vastly superior and finishes the fight quickly(Gogeta).

Jiren is way stronger but he enjoys holding back. He will only get serious when he realizes Broly is getting stronger, but by the time that happens, Broly will probably reach his level. But if Broly surpasses him. The thought of getting cornered will give him access to the Limit Breaker form and Jiren will pummel him like Gogeta.

So by feats and character, the winner is: Jiren.

As for Goku's statement about Broly being the strongest foe, Jiren was never a foe, as ArranVid stated. Jiren was just competition, and a threat. He is NOT a villain.

As for the next statement about how Broly is being stronger than Beerus, Goku is not reliable. He does not know Beerus's full power. The only thing that he 'knows' is Beerus used 70% of his power to defeat SSG. He later was shown to beat SSB Vegeta when serious.

Even if Broly is 'Stronger' than Beerus, Beerus thought third use UI omen might have surpassed him.

UI omen>=<Beerus

Jiren managed to match MUI, the complete form.

Jiren(Limit Breaker)=Goku(MUI)>Jiren(Full Power)=UI omen>=<Beerus

Jiren wins.

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#475  Edited By U_WOT_M8

@logiclancer said:

First off, Let's start with comparing their stats.

Broly managed to beat Goku and Vegeta both at SSB, though they put up somewhat of a fight. Since it takes place after the TOP, they're probably stronger, but probably not to the level of SSBKKx20 or SSBE. He also managed to stand out for a while against SSB Gogeta.

SSJB is Goku strongest, meaning it's no different then x 20 or Evolution blue, nor does it matter cause Goku and Vegeta admit they can't beat SSJ Broly and need fusion. Plus Goku and Vegeta never put a fight buddy, Broly tanked both of there punches together and swat their attacks, and made them run away. Jiren didn't do anything do as good as job as Broly. SSJ FP Broly tanked SSJ Gogeta who was beating SSJ Broly.

Jiren beat both SSBKKx20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta while being suppressed. And it should be noted that he wasn't serious. He got beaten at first by MUI Goku but match him again with his Super Full Power/Limit Breaker form and even surpassed him in power. But got defeated by a rage boost.

Post TOP > TOP for starters, that's common sense and it's even started that Frieza has gotten stronger as well by the director, Broly done way better then episode 127/128 Jiren, and Broly wasn't any where near full power.

So the difference in stats are great. But Broly gets stronger as he fight. He managed to pummel SSG Goku shortly after matching base Goku. This is only countered when the opponent is vastly superior and finishes the fight quickly(Gogeta).

Jiren is way stronger but he enjoys holding back. He will only get serious when he realizes Broly is getting stronger, but by the time that happens, Broly will probably reach his level. But if Broly surpasses him. The thought of getting cornered will give him access to the Limit Breaker form and Jiren will pummel him like Gogeta.

Lay off the drugs, first Jiren isn't stronger then Broly and your evidence to prove it is laughable, second LB Jiren is barely stronger then MUI at start, same MUI that was going toe to toe with Jiren in the start of episode 130, it isn't a major gap in power as shown in 130 when FP Jiren still kept up with MUI. Also MUI according to Whis is the power of the gods, not beyond it

So by feats and character, the winner is: Jiren.

As for Goku's statement about Broly being the strongest foe, Jiren was never a foe, as ArranVid stated. Jiren was just competition, and a threat. He is NOT a villain.

Broly is being called the strongest in general not foe, plus Broly wasn't a foe as Goku admits he isn't evil. He is no different then Jiren

As for the next statement about how Broly is being stronger than Beerus, Goku is not reliable. He does not know Beerus's full power. The only thing that he 'knows' is Beerus used 70% of his power to defeat SSG. He later was shown to beat SSB Vegeta when serious.

Incorrect, your bullshit head canon isn't reliabale, when the hell was it stated Goku didn't know Beerus full power ? No where cause its a stupid bullshit head canon rubbish idea that some dip shit on youtube made up, sorry to say the manga shows Beerus at a 100% and Goku saw him. Broly is > Beerus

Even if Broly is 'Stronger' than Beerus, Beerus thought third use UI omen might have surpassed him.

UI omen>=<Beerus

Jiren managed to match MUI, the complete form.

Jiren(Limit Breaker)=Goku(MUI)>Jiren(Full Power)=UI omen>=<Beerus

Jiren wins.

No Beerus thought MUI might've surpass him not omen, actually read the text

Exact text is "In episode 129 Goku attains Ultra Instinct and his entire body starts to glow Silver to which Beerus says, 'he might've surpassed me'".

https://twitter.com/KenXyro/status/1026339463574827008

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Jiren solos the verse. Mismatch.

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Jiren

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Gogeta Blue > MUI Goku > Jiren > Broly > Beerus

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@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:

SSJB is Goku strongest, meaning it's no different then x 20 or Evolution blue, nor does it matter cause Goku and Vegeta admit they can't beat SSJ Broly and need fusion. Plus Goku and Vegeta never put a fight buddy, Broly tanked both of there punches together and swat their attacks, and made them run away. Jiren didn't do anything do as good as job as Broly. SSJ FP Broly tanked SSJ Gogeta who was beating SSJ Broly.

First off, KKx20 and Evolution weren't original ideas of Toriyama, meaning that in the movie, they were not considered to exist. Jiren also tanked their attacks without a scratch on him. And proceeded to swat them. And this time they cannot run. He destroyed them, AND Android 17 when going full power. As for Gogeta, we have another fusion, Vegito. If you count the non-canon, like the manga which you mentioned below, then you can count Dragon Ball Heroes.

They basically introduced Cumber(Or was it Cumber?), a very powerful Villain. It took Vegito SSBKKx20 to match him. The same Cunber was matched by Jiren, and I can argue that Jiren was holding the advantage. DBH also took place after Heroes, so it's Post-ToP. Many people argue that Vegito is stronger than Gogeta. If he's not, SSBKKx20 is still stronger than SSB.

Jiren=Cunber=Vegito SSBKKx20>Gogeta SSB>LSSJ Broly.

Post TOP > TOP for starters, that's common sense and it's even started that Frieza has gotten stronger as well by the director, Broly done way better then episode 127/128 Jiren, and Broly wasn't any where near full power.

Of course Frieza did get stronger. Seeing as Broly stomped the to SSBs like you said and he held him off for an hour. If Broly stomped them like you said, they cannot hold him off for an hour. I agree that they got stronger but certainly not that much since they seem that much weaker than a much stronger Frieza. It's safe to assume that they did not get suddenly 20 times stronger. ToP SSBKKx20 and SSBE>Post ToP SSBs.

Lay off the drugs, first Jiren isn't stronger then Broly and your evidence to prove it is laughable, second LB Jiren is barely stronger then MUI at start, same MUI that was going toe to toe with Jiren in the start of episode 130, it isn't a major gap in power as shown in 130 when FP Jiren still kept up with MUI. Also MUI according to Whis is the power of the gods, not beyond it

It's but your opinion that it's laughable. LB Jiren went toe-to-toe at first but started to surpass MUI until the faith boost and the rage boost. FP Jiren only kept up because MUI is based on speed and reflexes. Not power. Whis said something like that? Not that it matters, but can you give me a link?

Broly is being called the strongest in general not foe, plus Broly wasn't a foe as Goku admits he isn't evil. He is no different then Jiren

Now that I remember it, I don't recall Goku saying Broly was the strongest. I've seen other people say it but I've never heard him say it. I'm not saying it's false, just asking for another link.

Incorrect, your bullshit head canon isn't reliabale, when the hell was it stated Goku didn't know Beerus full power ? No where cause its a stupid bullshit head canon rubbish idea that some dip shit on youtube made up, sorry to say the manga shows Beerus at a 100% and Goku saw him. Broly is > Beerus

It's "Reliable"(I hate to be the guy but I'm not a grammar Nazi, I swear). I'm not saying Goku doesn't know but there's no evidence he does. As for the Manga, I've never seen Goku witness 100% Beerus.

No Beerus thought MUI might've surpass him not omen, actually read the text

Exact text is "In episode 129 Goku attains Ultra Instinct and his entire body starts to glow Silver to which Beerus says, 'he might've surpassed me'".

https://twitter.com/KenXyro/status/1026339463574827008

I did not spread the false information. Just received it. Either way, that was the initial MUI before the faith and rage boost that LB Jiren overpowered.

Even if FP is not strong enough that only speeds up the inevitable as LB will beat down Broly quickly unlike two certain cocky idiots.

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@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:

First off, KKx20 and Evolution weren't original ideas of Toriyama, meaning that in the movie, they were not considered to exist. Jiren also tanked their attacks without a scratch on him. And proceeded to swat them. And this time they cannot run. He destroyed them, AND Android 17 when going full power.

Jiren needed too put effort into just swatting Goku Kamehameha

Broly swatted both Kamehameha/Galick Gun combo, you can pretend Jiren did better, but actions > words

Loading Video...

Loading Video...

Loading Video...

Who made them run away ? Broly

Who beat them quicker ? Broly

Who crushed them harder ? Broly

As for Gogeta, we have another fusion, Vegito. If you count the non-canon, like the manga which you mentioned below, then you can count Dragon Ball Heroes.

DBS manga which is written by Akira isn't the same as heroes genius really -.-

They basically introduced Cumber(Or was it Cumber?), a very powerful Villain. It took Vegito SSBKKx20 to match him. The same Cunber was matched by Jiren, and I can argue that Jiren was holding the advantage. DBH also took place after Heroes, so it's Post-ToP. Many people argue that Vegito is stronger than Gogeta. If he's not, SSBKKx20 is still stronger than SSB.

Jiren=Cunber=Vegito SSBKKx20>Gogeta SSB>LSSJ Broly.

If you like heroes so much, then you can use how Jiren struggled to get up from Hearts gravity and Base Goku was able too stand up and attack Hearts lol. DBH is laughable and shouldn't be used, even SSJG Goku puts a good fight against Base Cumber and SSJB Goku overpowers Golden Great Ape Cumber stomp.

Of course Frieza did get stronger. Seeing as Broly stomped the to SSBs like you said and he held him off for an hour. If Broly stomped them like you said, they cannot hold him off for an hour. I agree that they got stronger but certainly not that much since they seem that much weaker than a much stronger Frieza. It's safe to assume that they did not get suddenly 20 times stronger. ToP SSBKKx20 and SSBE>Post ToP SSBs.

Broly stomped them as shown on screen, as Post TOP > TOP, Goku and Vegeta evolution and x 20 Kaioken don't mean anything if Akira didn't put them in the movie, regardless both Goku and Vegeta admit they can't beat SSJ Broly, meaning SSJ Broly >>> Post TOP Goku and Vegeta regardless if they had toei forms or not, and seeing how they never used it, it means their SSJB is the strongest power they have. Frieza surviving an hour is PIS for fusion to fail twice, no different than how Jiren isn't able to knock out Base Vegeta

It's but your opinion that it's laughable. LB Jiren went toe-to-toe at first but started to surpass MUI until the faith boost and the rage boost. FP Jiren only kept up because MUI is based on speed and reflexes. Not power. Whis said something like that? Not that it matters, but can you give me a link?

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Goku nakama boost merely boosted his speed as stated and nothing more

Now that I remember it, I don't recall Goku saying Broly was the strongest. I've seen other people say it but I've never heard him say it. I'm not saying it's false, just asking for another link.

Goku doesn't say it, but Frieza in the novel thinks no being alive can beat SSJ Broly and Broly is called the strongest in guides, interviews, novel, and trailers. If I can get all of them I will post it

It's "Reliable"(I hate to be the guy but I'm not a grammar Nazi, I swear). I'm not saying Goku doesn't know but there's no evidence he does. As for the Manga, I've never seen Goku witness 100% Beerus.

Goku witnesses Beerus full power when he fights the other destroyers and the grand priest tells everyone not to hold back

I did not spread the false information. Just received it. Either way, that was the initial MUI before the faith and rage boost that LB Jiren overpowered.

Even if FP is not strong enough that only speeds up the inevitable as LB will beat down Broly quickly unlike two certain cocky idiots.

MUI merely increased speed according to Belmod when he got knocked down by Jiren, and Broly adapts and gets stronger far too quicjk for Jiren to do anything, Broly Base form Fought SSJ Vegeta, started losing but started winning after, he was losing to SSJ Gogeta, then he powered up and started to dominate him, Jiren isn't stronger then Broly nor is he strong enough to beat him.

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@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:

Jiren needed too put effort into just swatting Goku Kamehameha

Did you mean a three-way coordinated combo attack that Jiren completely dominated after effort? Yeah.

Broly swatted both Kamehameha/Galick Gun combo, you can pretend Jiren did better, but actions > words

Both are in SSB. Much less impressive than Jiren overpowering the three-way attack that included SSBKKx20 and SSBE along with Android 17.

Who made them run away ? Broly

They cannot run from Jiren. Run and give up, and they get erased along with their universe. The stakes are too high unlike the fight with Broly.

Who beat them quicker ? Broly

Who crushed them harder ? Broly

Who will crush and beat a weaker character quicker, Broly or Whis? Broly. Whis's character will make him toy with an opponent longer while the enraged Broly will crush them immediately. Although it's pretty clear the Angel's stronger. It's part of Jiren's character to hold back against his enemies as evidenced by the fact that they didn't put a scratch on him.

Broly also didn't do that much better. He exchanged blows with them one-on-one at the same time only unlike Jiren who exchanged blows three-on-one or two-on-one. Broly never exchanged blows two-on-one.

It's not more impressive than Jiren.

DBS manga which is written by Akira isn't the same as heroes genius really -.-

It's the same in the sense that both are non-canon to the anime. However,

If you like heroes so much, then you can use how Jiren struggled to get up from Hearts gravity and Base Goku was able too stand up and attack Hearts lol. DBH is laughable and shouldn't be used, even SSJG Goku puts a good fight against Base Cumber and SSJB Goku overpowers Golden Great Ape Cumber stomp.

I agree with you that the PL is inconsistent. But the manga Kefla got beaten by Gohan and Master Roshi held his own against Jiren. They are not to be used in the same way as the anime. Both are non-canon to the anime and shouldn't be taken as evidence.

Broly stomped them as shown on screen, as Post TOP > TOP, Goku and Vegeta evolution and x 20 Kaioken don't mean anything if Akira didn't put them in the movie, regardless both Goku and Vegeta admit they can't beat SSJ Broly, meaning SSJ Broly >>> Post TOP Goku and Vegeta regardless if they had toei forms or not, and seeing how they never used it, it means their SSJB is the strongest power they have. Frieza surviving an hour is PIS for fusion to fail twice, no different than how Jiren isn't able to knock out Base Vegeta.

No, but they will mean something if they were in the movie. Broly then obviously doesn't matter since he wasn't in the anime. It's also way out of character for them to not use KKx20 and Evo, the only reason they weren't used was because of Akira. Broly was going all out against Frieza while Jiren was severely holding back against Vegeta.

Goku nakama boost merely boosted his speed as stated and nothing more

You literally proved my point. Jiren only managed to hold out because MUI was only faster. And Lb is enough to fill the gap with power alone.

Goku doesn't say it, but Frieza in the novel thinks no being alive can beat SSJ Broly and Broly is called the strongest in guides, interviews, novel, and trailers. If I can get all of them I will post it

If you go off by statements like that, I guess infinite Zamasu is weaker than Jiren who is stronger than Beerus then. Which the latter is probably true scaling off Belmod, who lost to Jiren and won against Beerus in an arm-wrestling match. Not that I need to use it.

Goku witnesses Beerus full power when he fights the other destroyers and the grand priest tells everyone not to hold back

Manga isn't canon to the anime as I have proven above.

Broly is being called the strongest in general not foe, plus Broly wasn't a foe as Goku admits he isn't evil. He is no different then Jiren

In general? Stronger than Whis? Infinite Zamasu?

MUI merely increased speed according to Belmod when he got knocked down by Jiren, and Broly adapts and gets stronger far too quicjk for Jiren to do anything, Broly Base form Fought SSJ Vegeta, started losing but started winning after, he was losing to SSJ Gogeta, then he powered up and started to dominate him, Jiren isn't stronger then Broly nor is he strong enough to beat him.

Jiren is stronger and if Broly pushes him to LB, he will certainly beat him.

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@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:
@u_wot_m8 said:
@logiclancer said:

Jiren needed too put effort into just swatting Goku Kamehameha

Did you mean a three-way coordinated combo attack that Jiren completely dominated after effort? Yeah.

Broly swatted both Kamehameha/Galick Gun combo, you can pretend Jiren did better, but actions > words

Both are in SSB. Much less impressive than Jiren overpowering the three-way attack that included SSBKKx20 and SSBE along with Android 17.

Who made them run away ? Broly

They cannot run from Jiren. Run and give up, and they get erased along with their universe. The stakes are too high unlike the fight with Broly.

Who beat them quicker ? Broly

Who crushed them harder ? Broly

Who will crush and beat a weaker character quicker, Broly or Whis? Broly. Whis's character will make him toy with an opponent longer while the enraged Broly will crush them immediately. Although it's pretty clear the Angel's stronger. It's part of Jiren's character to hold back against his enemies as evidenced by the fact that they didn't put a scratch on him.

Broly also didn't do that much better. He exchanged blows with them one-on-one at the same time only unlike Jiren who exchanged blows three-on-one or two-on-one. Broly never exchanged blows two-on-one.

It's not more impressive than Jiren.

DBS manga which is written by Akira isn't the same as heroes genius really -.-

It's the same in the sense that both are non-canon to the anime. However,

If you like heroes so much, then you can use how Jiren struggled to get up from Hearts gravity and Base Goku was able too stand up and attack Hearts lol. DBH is laughable and shouldn't be used, even SSJG Goku puts a good fight against Base Cumber and SSJB Goku overpowers Golden Great Ape Cumber stomp.

I agree with you that the PL is inconsistent. But the manga Kefla got beaten by Gohan and Master Roshi held his own against Jiren. They are not to be used in the same way as the anime. Both are non-canon to the anime and shouldn't be taken as evidence.

Broly stomped them as shown on screen, as Post TOP > TOP, Goku and Vegeta evolution and x 20 Kaioken don't mean anything if Akira didn't put them in the movie, regardless both Goku and Vegeta admit they can't beat SSJ Broly, meaning SSJ Broly >>> Post TOP Goku and Vegeta regardless if they had toei forms or not, and seeing how they never used it, it means their SSJB is the strongest power they have. Frieza surviving an hour is PIS for fusion to fail twice, no different than how Jiren isn't able to knock out Base Vegeta.

No, but they will mean something if they were in the movie. Broly then obviously doesn't matter since he wasn't in the anime. It's also way out of character for them to not use KKx20 and Evo, the only reason they weren't used was because of Akira. Broly was going all out against Frieza while Jiren was severely holding back against Vegeta.

Goku nakama boost merely boosted his speed as stated and nothing more

You literally proved my point. Jiren only managed to hold out because MUI was only faster. And Lb is enough to fill the gap with power alone.

Goku doesn't say it, but Frieza in the novel thinks no being alive can beat SSJ Broly and Broly is called the strongest in guides, interviews, novel, and trailers. If I can get all of them I will post it

If you go off by statements like that, I guess infinite Zamasu is weaker than Jiren who is stronger than Beerus then. Which the latter is probably true scaling off Belmod, who lost to Jiren and won against Beerus in an arm-wrestling match. Not that I need to use it.

Goku witnesses Beerus full power when he fights the other destroyers and the grand priest tells everyone not to hold back

Manga isn't canon to the anime as I have proven above.

Broly is being called the strongest in general not foe, plus Broly wasn't a foe as Goku admits he isn't evil. He is no different then Jiren

In general? Stronger than Whis? Infinite Zamasu?

MUI merely increased speed according to Belmod when he got knocked down by Jiren, and Broly adapts and gets stronger far too quicjk for Jiren to do anything, Broly Base form Fought SSJ Vegeta, started losing but started winning after, he was losing to SSJ Gogeta, then he powered up and started to dominate him, Jiren isn't stronger then Broly nor is he strong enough to beat him.

Jiren is stronger and if Broly pushes him to LB, he will certainly beat him.

Despite LB Jiren losing to the power of the gods lol

Broly > Jiren

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@u_wot_m8: When was MUI the 'Power of Gods'? It's like Toppo's GoD mode but for Angels. It's a technique that GoDs have trouble mastering. Goku's PIS allowed him to surpass someone who has been training to get it for millions of years(Beerus). MUI even though initial, surpassed Beerus and LB surpassed initial MUI. In the Zeno Expo, Beerus was one of the two last remaining, making him one of the strongest GoDs.

When MUI and LB first came, they surpassed Beerus. They then got stronger as they fought. Both are above GoD level.

Not only that but since Post-ToP SSBs never were stated to have a power boost, only Frieza. Doesn't saying that turn into the oh so bad BS Head Canon?

Broly also lacks skill. The only thing I see is him overpowering through brute strength. Jiren had lots of training to his backstory and matched evenly with UI Goku.

When Frieza stated that no being alive can beat Broly, he made it too general. The guy has already seen Zeno and Grand Priest have insane feats of power way above Broly, yet he chose to ignore those?

LB Jiren > Beerus ~ Jiren ~ Broly until you prove otherwise.

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LB Jiren>MUI Goku>>Base Jiren>>UI omen 3 goku>>>>Broly>=Beerus.

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If Jiren is serious straight away then he stomps. If he treats him like he treated Goku, ie only uses just enough strength, then he'll put himself in a bad place until he gets serious.

Broly is unique in the sense that long drawn out fights are his game. I'm not saying he's gonna close the gap fast but he went from under super saiyan to Vegeta super saiyan (higher than gotenks) to matching Goku before he was stopped.

I think Jiren can win if he plays it smart instead of the tough guy act.

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Jiren has shown better and more incredible feats than Broly.

Broly no doubt can hold himself against Jiren, but definitely cannot beat Jiren.

I think Goku's "You might be stronger than our Beerus" can't be taken as a credible source when compared to Whis' "His power reaches the domain of a God of Destruction or even surpassing it"

Mind you, Jiren was supresssed during this point, so I just think it further cements the proof that Jiren is stronger than Broly, based off of the Tournament of Power feats and also Whis' statement and many other factors that indicates that Jiren is superior IF the two were to fight against each other.

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If Jiren goes for the kill straight away he wins. If he plays with him like with all the other characters he loses. As far as we've seen Broly grows extremely fast against stronger opponents. In character Jiren would likely lose

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Jiren has better feats and skills, I see him winning especially if Jiren uses LB.

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Prolly Jiren. I want to say Brolly tho.

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If both start at their strongest and have intent to kill right off the bat, Jiren wins.

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#491 Eri_Joni  Online

Jiren

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@masma94: Everyone is forgetting that Jiren literally pushed Goku and Vegeta individually to boost their powers with Zenkai boosts in 40 minutes, while Broly did jack sh*&.

What I find weird is that why didn't Goku use SSJ Blue Kaioken.

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Broly>=Beerus=<Jiren. Both are regarded as over GoD level or right at the top it can go either way.

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#494  Edited By Tony501

@chasekilleen: Broly push them to use Fusion far above Kaioken or SSBE to an absurd degree, and they didn’t fight at full power simply cuz it wouldn’t be enough or even close too beat him and probably will just have made Broly even stronger.

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@tony501: No it's not.

Fusion is not more impressive, it's just them multiplying their powers.

Jiren literally made they much stronger and gave them new forms and made them push their own limits many times as an individual!

If fusion was impressive then why didn't they use the Potara to fuse if it'll help them that much?

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@tony501: Fusion is impressive? Then why didn't even use Kaioken Blue and Blue Evolution?

Meaning that Goku and Vegeta never went 100% full power.

Broly attacked Golden Frieza for 1 hour and he was still conscious and still in his Gold form, but Jiren and Toppo decimated Frieza in 1 or 2 shots and actually made Frieza unconcious...

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@tony501: Whis literally stated that Jiren while he first battling Goku that Jiren's power has reached the domains of a God of Destruction or Jiren has surpassed it.

Whis never mentions that in the movie did he?

And Whis never said "Your powers might be comparable to my lord." To Broly did he?

Goku only said "You are probably stronger than Beerus" he never said that "You are stronger than Beerus" and I'd take Whis' words credible any day rather Goku's.

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@tony501: Give me feats that Broly did that was comparable to what Jiren had done.

Jiren literally made Goku unlock a new form that made Goku as an individual respected and admired by the Gods of Destruction and made Goku surpass the Gods and also made him one step closer to an Angel's domain.

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#499  Edited By Tony501

@chasekilleen: reasons: Broly might be greater Than Beerus!!!, He outmuscled Super Gogeta who’s Mid GoD Tier, HE KEEP GETTING STRONGER, He adaptes better than anyone ales matching Vegeta skills while he never be in a a real Fight!! Freiza already said he is the strongest while he a was just a baby SSj, Vegeta/Goku gave up their Pride to Stop him. MUI I thought is greater the fusion but Gogeta was Sick he would had beat ToP MUI Goku but probably lose to current MIU goku . Broly>=Jiren tho if Jiren goes LB he will beat Broly.

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@tony501: Gogeta Blue can't even touch MUI Goku in ToP.

Goku MUI is said to be MFTL+ and he can dodge anything as well as his power is far greater than anything we have seen from Broly.