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#51 Posted by Paytience (4897 posts) - - Show Bio

The Borg would destroy the cube...

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#52 Posted by Floopay (11223 posts) - - Show Bio

Borg slaughter.... their sensors will locate the queen and all xenomorphs. They'll then isolate them with shields and port them into space...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#53 Edited by Paytience (4897 posts) - - Show Bio
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#54 Edited by Paytience (4897 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: Forcefields work to keep acid off them, and/or keep xenos segregated to certain parts of the vessel. Nano probes work to heal them. Your comparison of immune system to acid blood is frankly, nonsense...as in it makes zero sense and is comparing two different things.

The immune systems were not destroying the nanites, they were processing them out faster than they could enact assimilation.

You assume the nanoprobes cannot survive acid, which is nonsense. The've survived phasers, explosions, the vaccum of space etc and can heal on a level high enough that in Voyager, Seven of Nine brought Neelix back to life with them.

If your contention is that Xeno blood can destroy the nanoprobes faster then the probes can assimilate the host, then the burden of proof is on you.

YOU must provide examples of the nanoprobes being destroyed, not processed out of the body; and you must also provide evidence of Xeno blood being able to do so.

Because right now, you're basically asking us to cede a point which you have not supported, and which is founded on an improper analogy.

___

Transporters help them teleport the Xenos off their ship and to wherever they want. Borg stomp. If the Xenos cannot be transported off vessel, the can be contained with sectional forcefields that we see all the time on Borg ships, and trek ships in general. From there, they get wiped.

I doubt the facehuggers have much of an effect, as I doubt the creatures could germinate while the nanites are killing them off.

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#55 Posted by MetalJimmor (6417 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

Borg slaughter.... their sensors will locate the queen and all xenomorphs. They'll then isolate them with shields and port them into space...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

There is a certain irony that a person who signs every post with "thanks for reading" would fail to read the original poster's stipulations for the battle.

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#56 Posted by Floopay (11223 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: read the last question in the OP. You don't have to answer every question to participate in a thread.

And no, I don't think Borg can assimilate Xenos. The acid blood would eat through most of their implants.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#57 Posted by TourneyMaster (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

Forcefields work to keep acid off them, and/or keep xenos segregated to certain parts of the vessel. Nano probes work to heal them. Your comparison of immune system to acid blood is frankly, nonsense...as in it makes zero sense and is comparing two different things.

Your point of a blood base Nanoprobe surviving on a being with movie magic level acidic blood when normal immune bodies in other species blood can fight of said probes is silly. Show me proof the Probes can survive without being destroyed on the molecular level by acid that eats through layers of ship hulls then we can talk. I already proven blood base probes fail before, so to say they will work is also false unless they are shown to work on this kind of creature.

The immune systems were not destroying the nanites, they were processing them out faster than they could enact assimilation.

They were countering the probes, that simple.

You assume the nanoprobes cannot survive acid, which is nonsense. The've survived phasers, explosions, the vaccum of space etc and can heal on a level high enough that in Voyager, Seven of Nine brought Neelix back to life with them.

Yet species with high immune systems counter them fine every time. Molecular chemical acid for blood will work to destroy them too. Unless you have proof to show otherwise? Oh wait, you dont. Just your opinion they do. Also those Nano probes do not survive Phasers. If they did no ship part would be blown into nothing in ship battles, and no Borg would drop and die from Phaser blasts which they do before shields adapt to said phasers :/

If your contention is that Xeno blood can destroy the nanoprobes faster then the probes can assimilate the host, then the burden of proof is on you.

You already been debunk. Normal blood of high immunity systems species can counter it. Show proof of it working on a species blood made of impossible acidic levels or just concede. Or you can continue to remain bias and claim they will work when they failed before on less shit.

YOU must provide examples of the nanoprobes being destroyed, not processed out of the body; and you must also provide evidence of Xeno blood being able to do so.

I provided examples of two aliens with high immune systems resisting the probes. Phlox was semi infected and after a painful transition purge the probes himself. 8472 just laugh them away. Thats not one but two examples of them failing where you are acting they will work because you say so. Show me Probes surviving impossible in real life acidic aicd blood environment and we can talk. Or ignore the fact your precious Borg probes failed on weaker species blood. That works too for you cause I guess.

Because right now, you're basically asking us to cede a point which you have not supported, and which is founded on an improper analogy.

I supported my point fine. You say they will work just because. I said and proven they failed to work on the blood of certain beings already. Thus I supported my proof that they do not always work. Now you must prove they will in this case, or just be bias to your fav characters. That works too.

Transporters help them teleport the Xenos off their ship and to wherever they want.

Too bad they could not simply teleport off Species 8472 boarding parties, or Starfleet personnel who always boarded and attack cubes inside. Never seen them do this in a fight at all. Ever. Unless you can show me a example of this happening in a fight? Otherwise your taking the Borg out of character and making shit up. Its the equivalent to saying "well Superman punches the planet" to end a debate when Superman would never do this in a fight. That simple.

Borg stomp. If the Xenos cannot be transported off vessel, the can be contained with sectional forcefields that we see all the time on Borg ships, and trek ships in general. From there, they get wiped.

Funny thing about them "force fields" is that Species 8472 just plowed through walls of the Cube to get to where he needed fine. The force fields dont seem to work well on the walls and ceilings of the cube at all from what I seen. Proof they can? From what I seen they never could stop wall plowing 8472.

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I dont see why Xenos cannot do the same as Species 8472.

I doubt the facehuggers have much of an effect, as I doubt the creatures could germinate while the nanites are killing them off.

I doubt the Borg can fend off the Huggers dropping a embryo that adapts to the host species and takes on its traits. While non canon, these Huggers Embryos affect things they should not affect including Vampires, Superman, Energy Beings, ect. Thats non canon crossovers, but its proof enough Dark Horse writers of Aliens feel they can affect anything living. At the very least the Huggers are acid bombs damaging ship and Borg. Sure you can try to argue shields stop acid spray, but the shields are not skin tight where the Huggers will be on them faces. In the end we can argue circles if a Borg can be implanted with a Xenos taking on its traits or not. So i can be a bigger man and let that point go. It hard to tell if it would work, though if allowing crossover comics, it sure would.

@floopay said:

@metaljimmor: read the last question in the OP. You don't have to answer every question to participate in a thread.

And no, I don't think Borg can assimilate Xenos. The acid blood would eat through most of their implants.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Agreed.

@floopay said:

Borg slaughter.... their sensors will locate the queen and all xenomorphs. They'll then isolate them with shields and port them into space...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

When have they ever done this though? Again, its the equivalent of Superman exploding the planet earth to win every battle forum debate. Ots out of character.

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The Borg are not even smart enough to transport a Proton Torpedo off their ship! They never teleport off Species 8472 boarding parties or Starfleet personnel boarding parties. Why would they now?

Also if the only way for the Borg to win is BFR, seems clear the real winners are in a fight to me anyway ;)

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#58 Edited by Gracetrack (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster said:

Lets see, in all that counter reply, not once you explain how resistance is futile when several beings and people resisted. My point stands, Xeno's win ;).

I'm not certain you understand what futile means. Futile means - "Ultimately pointless." Yes, the Borg can be resisted, but in most cases that resistance ultimately proves useless. Only in extremely rare cases in Star Trek lore did that prove not to be the case, which doesn't make it a false premise because in the vast majority of cases resistance did prove to be futile (i.e. they've successfully assimilated thousands upon thousands of species). None of your given examples are tenable reasons as to why resistance would not be futile for the Xenomorphs, which is what I was addressing.

Again, the Xenomorphs:

  • Don't have plot armor like Captain Janeway/Archer
  • Aren't androids like Data/Lore
  • Aren't Species 8472 (a race created by its writers to have a wholly unique immune system capable of stopping Borg assimilation)
  • Aren't a nigh-omnipotent super race like the Q Continuum

The Xenomorphs can and will resist, but it will ultimately be pointless unless they have any of the above factors going for them, which they do not.

Resistance is futile for the Xenomorphs. They get assimilated.

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#59 Posted by comic_book_fan (11363 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: the borg would not even assemulate them they would just kill them with vastly superior weapons and they have a 10 to 1 numbers edge.

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#60 Posted by destinyman75 (14258 posts) - - Show Bio

Hand to hand Aliens have the advantage. Borg are slower and Aliens blood is acid. Borg however slower are still on par with strength. Can I turn Drones into Borg drones with the numbers. Energy weapons wreck drones so I'd say Borvt definitely have a chance to win here. Aliens have a Queen, so do the Borg

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#61 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (6479 posts) - - Show Bio

@gracetrack: Do you think Lore would interact well with a Xenomorph?

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#62 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio

do people forget the most trademark thing about the Borg is to eventually adapt to any attack? yeah, the xenomorph wins in hand to hand but i highly doubt the xenomorphs can deal with phrasers. plus A Borg cube is normally equipped with 130,000 drones at there command which are all linked together as a hive mind. plus They can see everything within the EM spectrum, as well as view the nanoscale, the size of molecules, analyze every facet and dimension of any object in perfect detail, and save perfect representations of those objects in physical memory. A drone's eyepiece was furthermore capable of directly observing the geometry of multi-dimensional space-time, so i doubt the xenomorphs are gonna hide from them with there half assed stealth. the only weaknesses they have are Neurolytic pathogen (accidentally assimilated by the Borg Queen in 2378, it heavily crippled the Collective), Kinetic force (Has proven to be far more effective than energy weapons) and the Borg are still dependent on their organic parts (Making biological weapons useful to some extent), Isolation (Can lead to the disconnection of a drone).

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#63 Posted by RikuYamaha (1480 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster said:

Lets see, in all that counter reply, not once you explain how resistance is futile when several beings and people resisted. My point stands, Xeno's win ;).

I'm not certain you understand what futile means. Futile means - "Ultimately pointless." Yes, the Borg can be resisted, but in most cases that resistance ultimately proves useless. Only in extremely rare cases in Star Trek lore did that prove not to be the case, which doesn't make it a false premise because in the vast majority of cases resistance did prove to be futile (i.e. they've successfully assimilated thousands upon thousands of species). None of your given examples are tenable reasons as to why resistance would not be futile for the Xenomorphs, which is what I was addressing.

Again, the Xenomorphs:

  • Don't have plot armor like Captain Janeway/Archer
  • Aren't androids like Data/Lore
  • Aren't Species 8472 (a race created by its writers to have a wholly uniquely immune system capable of stopping Borg assimilation)
  • Aren't a nigh-omnipotent super race like the Q Continuum

The Xenomorphs can and will resist, but it will ultimately be pointless unless they have any of the above factors going for them, which they do not.

Resistance is futile for the Xenomorphs. They get assimilated.

this, plus my comment=dead xenos.

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#64 Posted by TourneyMaster (1529 posts) - - Show Bio

People still try to claim how bad ass the Borg are, and I can just keep posting videos of their incompetence. Its a vicious cycle :)

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#65 Edited by StiltMan (3 posts) - - Show Bio

How this goes depends on which series' writers you have for the Borg. Against the Borg as written in Q Who? or Best of Both Worlds, the Xenos would last somewhere between two and five minutes before their blood no longer even produced a chemical reaction on Borg components, every drone would have a force field up that could withstand any degree of physical force that an adult Xenomorph could conceivably apply, and they'd make sure every single drone never had their shields down around the mouth area, ever. After that point, the Xenos continue to exist as a distinct species about as long as the Borg want them to.

Against the Borg as written on Voyager... well, Voyager nerfed them more and more every time they showed up, which was about every other episode. The TNG Borg would have laughed off Species 8472's energy weaponry after about a half hour, tops, whether they were able to assimilate actual individuals or not... but of course, Voyager's writers needed that trace buster buster as a plot device for their villain of the week, so that's not how it went there. If these are the ones you want to play with, then yeah, you could maybe stipulate the Xenos are just too cool for the Borg to figure out... which was most things, really. Borg adaptive ability on Voyager went down. A lot.

Regardless of which writers are going on, it seems silly to figure that almost any acidic compound, even the Xenos' magic blood, is closer than about five centuries' worth of destructive technology to a common hand phaser. It's still a chemical compound of _some_ sort, so there's going to be a hard ceiling on what it can do which would strike me as quite a bit lower than what the Borg commonly are portrayed as adapting to. The only way this even strikes me as a close fight is if we're just deciding on purpose (as are most of the Xeno-supporting writers on this board) that the Xenos are just too cool for the Borg to figure out. Read: these guys could get jobs on Voyager. If we agree that Voyager sucks (not a hard ask) and that any evidence the show portrays is the result of their writers wanting to leverage the notoriety of the Borg while coming up with multiple ways to "top" them (or needing to get away with not having Janeway become Locutus II)... then the Xenos lasting very long at all is a harder sell.

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#66 Posted by jagernutt (16331 posts) - - Show Bio

Borg win in the end but will likely lose in the beginning.

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#67 Edited by StiltMan (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah. That's kind of how the Borg usually rolled, at least in the initial appearances. Whatever you wanted to do to them would work... for a little while. Then they'd figure out what to do with you, and you're done. Maybe the Xenos actually stretch it out a while... but the Borg would eventually adapt, and once any of them figure it out, they all figure it out. And then that's it for you.

In Q Who? they were literally unstoppable for any significant period of time and the Enterprise required intervention by Q not to get owned on the spot. In Best Of Both Worlds and for the rest of the TNG continuity, they were only stoppable at all by exploiting Picard's hooks into the inside of the system, which was then rendered non-reproducible by unplugging him. Then we got into Voyager and they suffered badly from villain decay and the need of the Voyager writers to come up with a reason every week why Voyager itself could fly through the entirety of Borg space at conventional warp and somehow not be assimilated. The Borg as written in TNG clearly were not realistically possible to accomplish this against without significantly shifting what they considered the canon... so Voyager's writing staff did so, shamelessly.

They'd have been better off on the consistency/continuity scale if they'd had Voyager steal an alien cloaking device of some sort, use it to slip through a Borg transwarp conduit, and treat it as a story where they had to sneak by quickly because they'd be swiftly assimilated if they were discovered, they couldn't hide forever, and so they get through quickly and the Borg never much show up in the series again. They can even pick up Seven of Nine as part of a boarding party that briefly discovers them and is stopped along the way, given that she was one of only two actors in the whole series who was genuinely trying (the other being the EMH). And Species 8472... should've fallen into the reject bin along with the episode where the ship gets trapped in a time warp, the "main" timeline's Harry Kim literally diesalong the way, but they pick up the "parallel" Kim from another timeline and slot him into the original's chair, and everyone's just... no big deal, nothing to see here, nobody needs to talk about this, OMG SOME1 GET THE NEURALYZER NAO. (That episode was pretty much the Cray Cray Event Horizon that had me figuratively throwing the remote at the TV and literally never watching again. It's roughly Exhibit R why not to take this show as serious canon.) And, along the way, the Borg got nerfed until they were no longer much recognizable in their original form. Sorry, but that last sentence is pretty much a statement of fact.

Not surprisingly, everyone in the "Xenos don't get assimilated or purged in a few hours tops" pool on this thread is citing heavily from Voyager as their reasons why. I'm a little leery of that as the basis for the argument. Voyager, and especially everything they did with the Borg, is somewhere in the category with the fifth original cast movie, the Matrix sequels, "don't worry about Thanos because Squirrel Girl" or "Ranma is a terrible person because Secret Sauce story". Yes, it exists... but it probably shouldn't, and if that's your basis for an argument on who wins, I'm just openly dismissing you for cherry picking the parts that should probably be considered apocryphal by serious audiences.

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#68 Posted by baph (1670 posts) - - Show Bio

The borg, handily.

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#69 Posted by StiltMan (3 posts) - - Show Bio

TL;DR version of the previous semi-rants: regardless of which version of the Borg you want to use, the Xenomorphs' threat potential to them is entirely based on physical contact. Once the stealth is set aside, making physical contact is the common denominator of their entire threat envelope, whether it's adults sneaking up on them, facehuggers giving them a face full of alien wing wong, or blood dissolving them. The Borg's entire concept is based on a frightening level of data collection and integration of every single individual into a massive parallel processing system, and then tuning the personal defensive fields of each drone like a radio to deal with known, active threats. Unless we're stipulating on purpose or for narrative reasons that the Borg can't figure out that preventing physical contact renders the Xenos a non-threat or are unable to do so, the Borg reduce them to an interesting nuisance very, very quickly. At best.

We can argue whether they can assimilate them (I'd accept an argument that they can't), but they can clearly stop them from hurting them unless we just don't want to write a story where they can.