Bolton Army vs Unsullied Army

The Bolton Army, commanded by Ramsay Bolton (from the Battle of the Bastards) faces off against the Unsullied army, commanded by Grey Worm.

Bolton army consists of 6000 soldiers (mixture of calvary, infantry, and archers, as shown in BotB). Unsullied army consists of 8000 infantry soldiers. The battle takes place on the fields outside of Winterfell, starting distance of 200 yards. The fight is until one side is completely destroyed/killed.

Which army prevails and why?

Bolton army is better equipped and more diverse than the Unsullied. Cavalry would be devastating if deployed correctly, as would archers. Bolton spear wall should also win against the Unsullied spear wall. Thanks to having longer spears and tower shields, the Unsullied will struggle to even get close enough to fight the first rank of Bolton men, much less be effective in doing it.

Ser Twenty solos, mismatch

Unsullied have been known to stop much greater numbers if cavalry, dorthraki cav which is much better then the Bolton's unsullied win here there much better then anything they have faced before

Unsullied outclass them 1-to-1 and with a numbers advantage this should be fairly easy for them. They should be well trained to deal with cavalry and I can't see either army outsmarting the other or winning on superior tactics.

It's actually pretty hard to decide. Ramsey can definitly outsmart Greyworm using some dirty tricks and he most likely won't fight himself and that's a good thing in battle of that scale. On the other hand Greyworm is one of the best fighters of GoT and the unsullied are elite unlike Boltons troops. So in the end it's going to depend if Ramsey is able to use the versatility of his army and deny greyworm a fair battle. Rereading the rules I believe the Unsullied take this. 200 yards isn't that far. They will enter melee quickly and defeat Bolton.

Unsullied stomp with greater numbers. They are expert formation fighters, perfectly capable of handling cavalry and infantry alike. They have unparalleled discipline and are damn near completely emotionless, so there's no way Ramsay can bait any of them into an inferior position.

I thought there were only supposed to be 300 unsullied. Anyway the Unsullied should die if the Bolton army starts in formation.

Unsullied are still alive boltons are not, gotta go with grey worms crew

Unsullied get shenanigan'd. They are better soldiers but in the end are a bunch of unsupported spearmen facing a force with archers and supporting cavalry. The Boltons also have superior gear.

the unsullied are too immobile. the bolton/umber/karstark host can pepper them down with arrows, use flanking charges with cavalry etc. although theyre outnumbered, their combined arms approach is superior. no formation will stand for long if you charge them in the back. the dothraki never tried that.

The Unifed Bolton Force will probably break if they lose a third of their number like most Westerosi forces.

The Unsullied will break them, if only because they're drastically better trained and will just continuously fight until they die without panicking.

Archers will probably be pretty useless against the unsullied as well, as they'll just form up a giant testudo and not give a fuck. Sort of like how the Romans reacted to Persians and proto-brits.

You guys forget they’re in the north Ramsay knows how to use the snow and winter to his advantage worse comes to worse they can all retreat to winterfell and wait them out. Ramsay’s forces are better equipped and more versatile

Bolton army. I will pick them every time in this arena.

Look, as strong as the unsullied are in training - this is me picking 8000 of the elite Spartans over still very highly trained Roman legionaires? Which is how the Boltons really came with, in testudo formation and all. Now some might debate the phalanx vs legion, and I always say the legion - but it was close. But the thing that makes this not close is the composition.

This seems to be just 8000 infantry, vs a hybrid legionary force with cavalry. If they have even a semi-confident general, they will outposition the unsullied, pin them down - hit them with an attack here to soften them up with javs and the archer fire, and then use the cavalry when pinned down with the more flexible - but still very defensive minded legionaires.

The phalanx almost required cavalry support - as Alexander demonstrated. And even the Spartans realized this to some extent on some campaigns - as often weaker and overglorified versions the unsullied try to be of the Spartans in history. And what led the Macedonians with their combined arms approach to eventually supplant this whole thing.

The spartans weren't invincible and were exploited, the romans did in fact beat them in the battlefield once (even if the bulk of their conquest of it was them just taking the city of Sparta when the army was away) - and neither are the unsullied. There is only so much training can do. Very much like the flashy moves of the foolish Dothraki duelist who fought Jorah Mormont. Yeah, he flipped around a lot and was fancy in and out. Then Jorah with much less skill but knew the weaknesses and strengths and the tactics of equipment to maximize them - simply caught him in the armor, and then executed him. Training on the whole battlefield army can't negate it when the other entire army is better purposed for a war vs you and is way more flexible - better armored, better equipped, and has archer and cavalry support.

It's just a shame that GoT books and TV show both do an extremely poor job in showing good sound, tactical decision making when it comes to medieval or older army control. I feel a real Caesar from our world could practically have soloed Westeros from simply being a vastly superior general, in everything but vs a Dragon or other sci-fi elements. I expect when we see these two sorts ever fight on screen, it will somehow make it all about skill, and far closer in every other way when it wouldn't be.

Unsullied for me.

The problem here is the unsullied in lore are really, really good. Man to man Unsullied are better, and their unit cohesion is good as well. They don't have the tactical leadership that Ramsey had though.

However, I don't see how the Bolton Cavalry is good enough to swing this. According the Jamie Lannister the Dothraki are better then anything in Westeros...making them possibly the best cavalry in GoT.

And according to Robert Baratheon:

"Only a fool would face the Dothraki on an open field".

The Unsullied have beaten the Dothraki...on an open field.

@paytience:

But the Dothraki were fools in how they attacked where the unsullied won. They went what, 22->30 charges iirc into a pike formation? You don't do that, that isn't how the mongolians or any competent horse archer faction of old would fight. Nor did they ever improvise, or do any of the other things anyone else would have done to try and change that predicament or approach. That is throwing away men, for nothing. It was because of the arrogance of the style of combat and their assuredness of victory, and the desire to show bravado over everything culturally.

It was very much how Alexander the great beat the Scythians. Lured them in with their backwards tribal mentality, and when the bait was sprung, unleashed the ambush.

It doesn't appear that the Westerosi cavalry has this problem. So as a unit, they are better led, even if man for man the Dothraki are better - and especially in the plains of Essos.

And it isn't what the cavalry can do by itself, only a fool, just like the Dothraki were - would charge cavalry headlong into pike formations. However, the weaknesses of such formations is when they are locked into combat with the other infantry of the Boltons, they can clean up the flanks a lot easier.

But then again, this is all depending on if the Boltons have a competent commander here. I think if they have one, they can't lose this.

Although they weren't really ready for a battle, Ramsay did soundly defeat the man that was considered the greatest commander alive at the time. Ramsay is underrated as far as leading goes, he was fairly good. The Unsullied did defeat the Dothraki on the open field, and while that is more impressive then someone like Stannis defeating the Ironborn at sea, The Unsullied were also shown to panic and forgo teamwork when the Sons of the Harpy easily overwhelmed them. Maybe being free men truly softened them up, maybe they just had bad writing but the Unsullied are just not portrayed as unbeatable warriors outside of stories.

Combine a better leader and a homefield advantage (Unsullied would be less used to fighting in the cold and snow then Stannis's army) and it should go to the Bolton's even with a number disadvantage.

Bolton army stomps, Unsullied are not equipped for the cold.

unsullied win .. I have a question why are you giving the unsullied the numbers ? Essos has much better figthers than westeros

Unsullied win.

Unsullied win. They have more men, superior as an infantry force, and have experience against superior cavalry and archers in the Dothraki. They're the epitome of focus and discipline, so they're not going to get rattled if things don't go their way.

if ramsey or Boltons if they are allowed to use Winterfell as as a second option for secondary defense then they win after extremely long battle that could take years .. if not unsullied stomp

The Unsullied are too much for the Bolton army too handle.

Unsullied win through regenerating their numbers out of nowhere

If Bolton commands his army with even a shred of competence, he wins in a slaughter. it's his fight to lose. There is a reason pure infantry armies phased away and never returned.

Edit: people saying Dothraki > Northern Men-at-Arms is comparing apples to oranges. One is heavy shock cav. The other is crappy light cav that thinks it's shock cav.

@pastepotpete1: Good thing Bolton isn't using Night's Watch [who are leftovers and criminals anyways, not exactly high quality troops] and wildlings who use crap equipment and fight with no organization.

What have the Dothraki done in the show?

They have charged head first into armored spearmen, who were only a few ranks thick due to an ambush, and were stopped and it was only thanks to a dragon that the ranks broke [because, crazy, but using light cav like heavy cav is how you earn yourself a derp award especially when you give said cav crappy khopeshs]. They charged head first into undead where they were also massacred. "But this is only the show!" Cept how the Unsullied gained their fame was by holding a choke point and laughing as the dothraki charged head first into them... over and overagain. The Dothraki are tactically inept children that are overhyped by people thinking they are the mongols, but they're not.

Why aren't they?

Because the Mongols heavily used archers and, move over, you know who did the frontal charges in the mongolian army?

"But those guys are wearing such heavy armor! No horse tribes used such armor!" Cept, no, all the successful horse conquering nations used heavy armor on their lancers, why? Because they have to do frontal charges and unlike the Dothraki, weren't written with an idiot ball in hand.

You can want and rave all you want about hype. But I use feats and logic.

So, lets look at this on a tactical level, shall we?

Can the Unsullied sit back and hold a defensive position? No. They cannot. "But why not!" Because supplies. Bolton has Winterfell. A place with enough supplies to last the winter. The Unsullied do not. They would have only a supply wagon with enough provisions to last a short while. So, they can either attack, or they can starve and freeze to death in the cold. "But they don't feel pain!" It doesn't matter if you don't feel pain. Hypothermia doesn't care if you can feel it or not. It will still kill you.

So, they have to attack. With small round shields against longbow men who can enjoy firing on slow moving targets [and their arrows will easily penetrate the crappy hardened leather jerkins they think are armor]. But they will advance well enough.. and them come face to face with another heavy infantry phalanx... and then stop. Why? Because phalanx vs phalanx is a very long and grindy fight. "Well, obviously, the unsullied will win! They have more men and are totes better even if their equipment is bad!"

But.. they don't. They have to leave back a large portion to protect the supplies from those nasty cavalry who will love to take them.

But now we come to the cavalry. You see, as those infantry are fighting... with archers peppering them from the rear or from the walls... what happens?

That cavalry happens. And they run over the unsullied. They then wheel out. And come back to do it again.

Because that is what happens in medieval warfare. If you bring nothing but infantry against a force that actually made theirs with a semblance of intelligence, you are going to get put in the hurt locker.

Now, feel free to waffle about your hype and what not, but based on feats, equipment, logic and how warfare works in this time period, assuming Bolton isn't incompetent, he puts greyworm in the dumpster.

When did this happen ? I don't remember

The Bolton army could win due to archers and Ramsay.

@thor_parker82: It's not shown in the show, only referenced I believe. It's a historical battle. The Battle of Qohor.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jjHkRDxgjPs

It was the only time the Dothraki have been defeated.

However, that is an old post. My current opinion as far as the show, is that the Dothrki have the better army, but not by much. The Bolton's however have a far more capable commander...I'd give it to the Boltons.

It's the only time

@paytience: Oh, I see, thought it was shown on-screen, thaks.

@wut said:

@pastepotpete1: Good thing Bolton isn't using Night's Watch [who are leftovers and criminals anyways, not exactly high quality troops] and wildlings who use crap equipment and fight with no organization.

What have the Dothraki done in the show?

They have charged head first into armored spearmen, who were only a few ranks thick due to an ambush, and were stopped and it was only thanks to a dragon that the ranks broke [because, crazy, but using light cav like heavy cav is how you earn yourself a derp award especially when you give said cav crappy khopeshs]. They charged head first into undead where they were also massacred. "But this is only the show!" Cept how the Unsullied gained their fame was by holding a choke point and laughing as the dothraki charged head first into them... over and overagain. The Dothraki are tactically inept children that are overhyped by people thinking they are the mongols, but they're not.

Why aren't they?

Because the Mongols heavily used archers and, move over, you know who did the frontal charges in the mongolian army?

"But those guys are wearing such heavy armor! No horse tribes used such armor!" Cept, no, all the successful horse conquering nations used heavy armor on their lancers, why? Because they have to do frontal charges and unlike the Dothraki, weren't written with an idiot ball in hand.

You can want and rave all you want about hype. But I use feats and logic.

So, lets look at this on a tactical level, shall we?

Can the Unsullied sit back and hold a defensive position? No. They cannot. "But why not!" Because supplies. Bolton has Winterfell. A place with enough supplies to last the winter. The Unsullied do not. They would have only a supply wagon with enough provisions to last a short while. So, they can either attack, or they can starve and freeze to death in the cold. "But they don't feel pain!" It doesn't matter if you don't feel pain. Hypothermia doesn't care if you can feel it or not. It will still kill you.

So, they have to attack. With small round shields against longbow men who can enjoy firing on slow moving targets [and their arrows will easily penetrate the crappy hardened leather jerkins they think are armor]. But they will advance well enough.. and them come face to face with another heavy infantry phalanx... and then stop. Why? Because phalanx vs phalanx is a very long and grindy fight. "Well, obviously, the unsullied will win! They have more men and are totes better even if their equipment is bad!"

But.. they don't. They have to leave back a large portion to protect the supplies from those nasty cavalry who will love to take them.

But now we come to the cavalry. You see, as those infantry are fighting... with archers peppering them from the rear or from the walls... what happens?

That cavalry happens. And they run over the unsullied. They then wheel out. And come back to do it again.

Because that is what happens in medieval warfare. If you bring nothing but infantry against a force that actually made theirs with a semblance of intelligence, you are going to get put in the hurt locker.

Now, feel free to waffle about your hype and what not, but based on feats, equipment, logic and how warfare works in this time period, assuming Bolton isn't incompetent, he puts greyworm in the dumpster.

you need to watch the show again sir

from this season the second to last season

did you even see when both the dothraki and bronn got knocked off their horse? jamie tried to fight off just on dothraki and dont forget jamie with his one hand he has fought wights and he beat Euron .. the dothraki treated Jamie like he was a little boy until one of the Tallies intervened

did you see when Bronn and the Dothraki both slammed into each other? even though the dothraki didnt have a horse and it was just ond dothraki .. Bronn wanted absolutey nothing to do with that .. if dothraki are as weak as you say bronn couldve used that arrow to fire on the dragon instead of waste a arrow that could kill a giant mamoth

by the way i dont know why are you are showing me pictures of asian looking mongolians .. the monogolians were 70 percent caucasian so were the huns .. it looks kind of silly to put a face of a guy with blonde hair and blue eyes as genhis khan or Kublai Khan who conquered the chinese dynasty .. but i dont know if they were mixed with white and asian but monogolians were pretty short and light that is why they used horses a lot .. europeans were huge .. but dothraki are known in the book to be very large or very tall men with long hair so i dont know why are you talking about mongolians you were no where near as tall as europeans ... germanic tribes were of decent height but it says in the book that dothraki are much taller than the average man or they are like norweigens

i dont think that unsullied and dothraki were given or forged weapons of Dragon - Glass and only about ten people in that fight had Valyrian Steel . obviously Theon had Valyrian steel how else would Ayra Stark get it? and yeah Dragon Glass would not work on the Night King being that he was created with Dragon Glass when he was once a human .. it D.G only works on Others or wights

i dont know what you are on about because native american indians beat colonist with just stone hatchets like Dothraki ( savages) fighting is everything to them .. most people in westeros were not Miesters or people of Tyrion Lanister intellect but they could read basic books .. Dothraki did not read books they didnt even spare with unlethal swords but why are we talking about Dothraki? .. this is about the unsullied

Unsullied would beat the boltons who arent the toughest army in the seven kingdoms .. kings landing has better army than the boltons .. the boltons arent exactly wealthy but they arent poor either .. i am just shocked when he cut off Jamie Lanisters hand ( a bolton solider) why was he not tortured or assassinated? instead he was sent to the wall? the boltons would beat the dorne and the iron borne on land , maybe the martels i dont know .. but you saw how the Vale disposed of them so quickly .. you saw that the wildings were outnumbered 3:1 and they were winning but they werent being deciminated either .. with that being said with out easy the Boltons gave up when they got trapped inside the circle i dont think they would beat the unsullied unless they make use of winderfell and try to starve unsullied out .. also botlons would have no idea what to do with people who use spears as a main offense .. remember one of their fighting tactics is to surrounded with shields and use spears .. so you think they are better than unsullied use spears as a primary weapon and like i said unsullied , dothraki ... they .. a westeros army may have a lot of problems with people who just use spears and have their own system of beating people with spears .. you have to understand that unsullied have fought the 1) golden army 2) they fought the dothraki ( men on horses 3) they have fought a lot of diferent type of fighters including armored knights

okay now you are going to talk about the undead and the dothraki getting their asses handed to them .. first of all they didnt all get slaughtered but when there are only 8 ,000 of you and you are not just fighting but swimming in a pool of 100 K of undead creatures that are eating and munching and slashing your horses .. hell the undead even were bold enought to attack Drogon when he was about the size of T-rex .. jamie couldnt make a dent in Drogon or the other Dragons .. plus she ( red women)gave them a flaming sword s.. they had to act upon it while they had the chance they dont understand how long it can stay like that unlike the guy with the eye patch who is use to using a flaming sword they had no expierence with magic combined with weapons and having a lot of armor would not help them against the undead the main thing is to 1) kill the undead 2) kill white walkers 3) not get killed so they can be used as weapons to be resurrected

ever see the show the 100 they had guns they had about couple of hundred soliders with machine guns or automatic guns but they didnt know how to 1) ride a horse 2) deal with flaming arrows and eventually being they were outnumbered they coudnt deal with the tribes who didnt use guns only arrows .. you see? i dont think that unsullied and dothraki were given or forged weapons of Dragon - Glass and only about ten people in that fight had Valyrian Steel . obviously Theon had Valyrian steel how else would Ayra Stark get it? and yeah Dragon Glass would not work on the Night King being that he was created with Dragon Glass when he was once a human .. it D.G only works on Others or wights

i dont know what you are on about because native american indians beat colonist with just stone hatchets like Dothraki ( savages) fighting is everything to them .. most people in westeros were not Miesters or people of Tyrion Lanister intellect but they could read basic books .. Dothraki did not read books they didnt even spare with unlethal swords but why are we talking about Dothraki? .. this is about the unsullied

Unsullied would beat the boltons who arent the toughest army in the seven kingdoms .. kings landing has better army than the boltons .. the boltons arent exactly wealthy but they arent poor either .. i am just shocked when he cut off Jamie Lanisters hand ( a bolton solider) why was he not tortured or assassinated? instead he was sent to the wall? the boltons would beat the dorne and the iron borne on land , maybe the martels i dont know .. but you saw how the Vale disposed of them so quickly .. you saw that the wildings were outnumbered 3:1 and they were winning but they werent being deciminated either .. with that being said with out easy the Boltons gave up when they got trapped inside the circle i dont think they would beat the unsullied unless they make use of winderfell and try to starve unsullied out .. also botlons would have no idea what to do with people who use spears as a main offense .. remember one of their fighting tactics is to surrounded with shields and use spears .. so you think they are better than unsullied use spears as a primary weapon and like i said unsullied , dothraki ... they .. a westeros army may have a lot of problems with people who just use spears and have their own system of beating people with spears .. you have to understand that unsullied have fought the 1) golden army 2) they fought the dothraki ( men on horses 3) they have fought a lot of diferent type of fighters including armored knights

okay now you are going to talk about the undead and the dothraki getting their asses handed to them .. first of all they didnt all get slaughtered but when there are only 8 ,000 of you and you are not just fighting but swimming in a pool of 100 K of undead creatures that are eating and munching and slashing your horses .. hell the undead even were bold enought to attack Drogon when he was about the size of T-rex .. jamie couldnt make a dent in Drogon or the other Dragons .. plus she ( red women)gave them a flaming sword s.. they had to act upon it while they had the chance they dont understand how long it can stay like that unlike the guy with the eye patch who is use to using a flaming sword they had no expierence with magic combined with weapons and having a lot of armor would not help them against the undead the main thing is to 1) kill the undead 2) kill white walkers 3) not get killed so they can be used as weapons to be resurrected

if WHITE WALKERS AND GIANTS WERE IN THE FRONT HOW THE HECK WOULD HAVING ARMOR , FIREY WEAPONS OR BEING A GOOD FIGHTER HELP ?

GOT GIANTS unlike the ones in the book were insanely powerful the giants in the book were a joke ! the dothraki killed atleast one .. danny and her dragon or jon snow killed the ssecond and the girl from house mormont killed the last one

@pastepotpete1: I'm confused, did you delete your old post then tag me in a 'I never said X and Y' debate a month later?

im shocked that you say that and you dont ask me "what i am doing on a weekened night " im actually getting ready to go on a date and talking about this relaxes me so yeah i am bringing it up but i think you're right and you're wrong .. dothraki and unsullied are overrated its true but not that overrated

but like i said those were proto -typed unsullied not real unsullied

and the dothraki wiped out the AAgons or Salgons whatever they were and they had weapons armor and yada yadda but to be fair .. game of thrones i dont know they say AD or BC .. but basically they are going to spending the rest of enternity in the dark ages or medeival ages .. they will never ever get out of dark ages .. hell they have been like living in the middle ages for like what?? thousands a quarter of one million years

and daeyerns destroyed maybe about 18 percent of the population on that earth

debating i mean a lot of people on the vine debate on a weekend night but i deleted it because i had to read the book before i could debate going by the movie is stupid

like ( on the show) when Sansa came out and knitted Jon a sweater .. me and my friends were like WTF he just saved you from a life of hardship your legs not getting sawed off from Ramsey and you just knit him a sweater?

i just read the first two book

@pastepotpete1: .... So.. let me get this straight. you delete your old post, the one where you went on a tangent about how everything is Esso is more powerful then Westeros including the Dothraki tangent. I point out how this is wrong. You then delete that post, come back, and say 'I don't know why you're talking about Dothraki!' as if I was the one who brought them up... then proceed to keep talking about Dothraki in your post.

No, that doesn't fly. You don't delete your own post after a month, try to shove the burden onto me and then pretend it never happened in your new post directed at me. That is what we call 'scummy'.

Can we get an F for our 'boys' in black?

uggh wait im going to ask myself a question why do i care what you care from what it sounds like your basically telling me in lamens terms you havent even read the book .. you watched the show and played the video game at your friends house

@pastepotpete1: I wonder, if at this moment, you just realized that it is not a 'book'. It is a series of books, and more so, the battle of the bastards has yet to happen in the books, meaning you can't use the books for the Bolton's forces at said battle and so it is a bit humorous. But yes, lets attack my credibility Mr. Deletes Post And Shifts Goal Post.

the book 8 is coming out pretty soon and the boltons are still around and kicking

the dornish are still around too who killed most of the dragons

so .. why dont we wait and see ?

well atleast i ***ing read the book but after reading the book i agree that the boltons would win winterfell or no winterfell most of the dothroki are about 14 years olds with the oldest being no more than 19 yrs and most of the Bolton are full grown expierenced men plus they have minimal armor and dont even have a short sword

but the unsullied that beat the dothraki during the days the dothroki beat the Qhours .. no they were in their peaks and were well over 18 years old .. the elite