BOBF Luke Skywalker vs SOD Mother Talzin and ROTS Sidious (Force Battle)

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nassergrant19

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#1  Edited By nassergrant19
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They start 30ft apart on Tython

Force Only

Canon

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lazerbeak

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Now this one seems interesting. Leaning towards the duo for now but I could change my opinion soon

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Darthor

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For the one last time. @nassergrant19 pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls

TAG ME!!! TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!! TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!! TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!! TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!! TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!TAG ME!!!

OT: BOBF Luke.

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reaperace

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#5 reaperace  Moderator

As much as I like Luke, please stop hyping Mando and BOBF Luke. as of now, they have no clear scalings.

Stick to using ROTJ Luke.

OT: Luke

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nassergrant19

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JediSympathiz3r

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Duo, Luke still has no counter for force lightning

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Lord_Tenebrous

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From what I've read, either ought to solo young Luke.

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blackpantherisb

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Did Luke get any decent feats in BoFB?

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lightyagamigod2

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I'm going with Luke on this one

Let alone the Boba Fett Luke..

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americanspeeddemon

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Either can arguably take him together they win easily.

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The_Swaggot

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Duo 10/10

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FreeFaceMask

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Duo stomps.

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KaiThighJu

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#15  Edited By KaiThighJu

I feel like Luke could beat either of them in a 1v1 but a 1v2 is too much.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Did Luke get any decent feats in BoFB?

Nothing. Anything relating to that incarnation is assumed scaling off of his film self, however powerful you believe he was then.

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deactivated-6261a58d084d8

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Luke dies against either. Talzin could be close.

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turtleman1878

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Duo wins easily. Either one can solo Luke.

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killbilly

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#19  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

BOBF Luke > RotJ Luke ~ RotJ Vader > Rebels Vader > LotS Vader > RotS Anakin ~ RotS Sidious >~ Talzin as she was on Dathomir after draining Dooku. The gaps aren't necessarily enormous though so I could see the team taking it without a huge amount of difficulty, especially given the knowledge/experience gap.

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frozen

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#20 frozen  Moderator

Duo wins easily. Either one can solo Luke.

Talzin can definitely not beat Luke.

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TheVivas

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Still no answer for Lightning. Duo takes it.

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God_Vulcan

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Luke never learned to deflect lightning

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commanderxeon

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@rajjaralt: Just because he's never been shown to defend against lightning doesn't mean he can't.

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Landon_Rogers00

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Duo. 10/10.

any reason why we're hyping luke up so much after lifting frogs?

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God_Vulcan

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@commanderxeon:

He has one instance of fighting against lightning and he got destroyed by it so it’s more than reasonable to assume he can’t.

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frozen

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#26 frozen  Moderator

Luke never learned to deflect lightning

Do you think Dooku could beat Knightfall Vader in a force battle?

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#27 frozen  Moderator

Duo. 10/10.

any reason why we're hyping luke up so much after lifting frogs?

Luke is equal to Vader in ROTJ, who scales above ROTS Sidious. Luke as of BoBF is > ROTJ Luke.

Not enough to win this, but he solos either in a 1v1.

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God_Vulcan

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@frozen:

No, Ashoka blocked Palpatine's Sith sorcery which should be deadlier than lightning and Anakin taught her everything

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frozen

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#29 frozen  Moderator

@frozen:

No, Ashoka blocked Palpatine's Sith sorcery which should be deadlier than lightning and Anakin taught her everything

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He was toying with her here.

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SonOfDarkness

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#30  Edited By SonOfDarkness

Team. Post ROTJ Luke has no feats yet all he has is vague scaling over ROTJ Vader.

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God_Vulcan

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#31  Edited By God_Vulcan
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frozen

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#32 frozen  Moderator

@frozen:

Based on?

Based on the fact that he was laughing and taking glee in it.

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God_Vulcan

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@frozen:

He’s not talking with Glee, he’s chanting sorcery ad making weird sounds. Cackling is standard for him whenever he does anything even remotely evil.

Do you think he was toying with Yoda?

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#34 frozen  Moderator

@frozen:

He’s not talking with Glee, he’s chanting sorcery ad making weird sounds. Cackling is standard for him whenever he does anything even remotely evil.

Do you think he was toying with Yoda?

He chuckled against Yoda and was then promptly silenced once Yoda struck back. We know when Sidious is serious, and its definitely not when he is doing that.

Mace was barely able to hold his lightning back, and that was with a lightsaber. Unless you think Ahsoka is > Mace, which wouldn't make sense at all.

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DarthAdi

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#35  Edited By DarthAdi

@frozen: Why can't be Ahsoka above Mace tho? It's not like canon abides by logic.

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God_Vulcan

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@frozen:

He is chuckling well into his fight with Yoda even up until the near end when they stalemate in the force. He also makes similar noises in the fight as he does during that scene in Rebels.

Ashoka collapsed from holding it off and that was with Ezra, I don’t see it as putting her above Mace but it puts her at a similar tier which I don’t think is far fetched from a power standpoint.

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frozen

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#37 frozen  Moderator

@frozen:

He is chuckling well into his fight with Yoda even up until the near end when they stalemate in the force. He also makes similar noises in the fight as he does during that scene in Rebels.

Ashoka collapsed from holding it off and that was with Ezra, I don’t see it as putting her above Mace but it puts her at a similar tier which I don’t think is far fetched from a power standpoint.

With Yoda, we have sources saying they were evenly matched. In that scene, all we hear is him chuckling. Vader can barely withstand the lightning of a toying Sidious, so it doesn't stand to reason that Ahsoka would be able to hold off the lightning of a fully trying Sidious.

If Ahsoka is in that tier, then so is Luke, based on his confirmed parity with Vader.

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God_Vulcan

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@frozen:

Ashoka has training coupled with power, Luke doesn’t have any and likely doesn’t know the technique to deflect it - he’s been confronted with that sort of attack once and got wrecked by it and didn’t even try putting up a defence against it. He also seems surprised by the fact that Sidious could even do that, there’s a Filloni quote that can also be interpreted as her being superior due to experience and training so I don’t think that attempt at scaling holds up at all.

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nassergrant19

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#39  Edited By nassergrant19
@rajjaralt said:

@frozen:

Ashoka has training coupled with power, Luke doesn’t have any and likely doesn’t know the technique to deflect it - he’s been confronted with that sort of attack once and got wrecked by it and didn’t even try putting up a defence against it. He also seems surprised by the fact that Sidious could even do that, there’s a Filloni quote that can also be interpreted as her being superior due to experience and training so I don’t think that attempt at scaling holds up at all.

You realize he never said that right? She’s nearly 20 years older than him. He said she‘s his senior, which literally everyone knows. She’s old enough to be his mom.

We had a whole discussion about—it would be very easy to make [Luke] so over-the-top skilled, but I was like, ‘You know, what’s interesting is, he’s had training, but I don’t know who’s been teaching him sword-fight training.’ So he had to have a style that was better than what we saw in Jedi, but fundamentally still on the same tree of sword-fighting technique; and his technique and Ahsoka’s technique should be very different. Technically she’s had vastly more training than he ever has. She’s actually his senior which is difficult for people to remember ‘cause of when these characters were created.”

This is something that could be said about any Jedi Master who lived through the Clone Wars since Luke wasn’t born yet…..

Not sure what that has to do with comparing someone who is canonically above prime Vader and someone who is below Dooku.

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#40 frozen  Moderator

@frozen:

Ashoka has training coupled with power, Luke doesn’t have any and likely doesn’t know the technique to deflect it - he’s been confronted with that sort of attack once and got wrecked by it and didn’t even try putting up a defence against it. He also seems surprised by the fact that Sidious could even do that, there’s a Filloni quote that can also be interpreted as her being superior due to experience and training so I don’t think that attempt at scaling holds up at all.

Vader also had superior training to Luke, and we saw how that turns out whenever he faced Sidious. The strength of the ligtning is dependant on strength in the force. For example, Dooku's lightning won't be as Sheev's. ROTJ Sidious is a lot stronger than ROTS Sidious in the force.

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God_Vulcan

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#42  Edited By God_Vulcan

@nassergrant19:

That quote outright says Ashoka is more skilled than him, having a more advanced fighting style due to Luke's lack of training. I believe there's a book that also says Obi Wan was more skilled than Luke as well so there's consistency to that line of thinking.

@frozen:

  • Fighting Vader who can't even use lightning doesn't equate to fighting two people who use lightning as their go to attack. How many people has Vader fought? Qira, Karbin, Barr, Koth? Do you think they could also deflect lightning?
  • Deflecting force lightning with Tutamanisis an actual skill that requires training, Luke never had that training, if he did its never been shown so its not fair to assume and there's evidence to the contarary:
    • Luke has one instance vs Force lightning and however many times more powerful you think ROTJ Sidious is irrelevent to him getting wrecked by it without knowing how to mount a proper defence and begging for help, EDIT: and also being surprised to the ability even existing.
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nassergrant19

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@rajjaralt:

That quote outright says Ashoka is more skilled than him

No where does it say that lol.

Yes Kenobi is more skilled…once again he had 30+ years of saber knowledge while Luke wasn’t born….That has nothing to do with Luke being equal to prime Vader’s skill and force augmentation.

Vader is below Kenobi in skill but is a tier above due to superior force augmentation. Same for Luke to an even higher extent.

Still not sure why your comparing Ahsoka who isn’t even above Dooku or the ROTS Titans to someone who is above prime Vader…

I’ll let frozen and others take it from here. Don’t wanna interfere with my own thread too much.

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frozen

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#44 frozen  Moderator

@rajjaralt:

Fighting Vader who can't even use lightning doesn't equate to fighting two people who use lightning as their go to attack. How many people has Vader fought? Qira, Karbin, Barr, Koth? Do you think they could also deflect lightning

We have direct confirmation that Luke is equally as skilled as Vader with a lightsaber in addition to being equally as strong in the force. It goes beyond the comparisons you cited with Karbin, Koth etc. Just because Sidious wrecked him with it, doesn't mean any Sith could. Otherwise by that logic, Dooku wrecks Mace with lightning in a force battle. Having more training doesn't mean one is superior, otherwise Luke wouldn't be equal to Vader in skill (Vader's training vastly outweighs Luke's).

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God_Vulcan

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@frozen:

Comparing Luke and Mace is apples and oranges -- Mace is trained and would have received similar training to Yoda, Ashoka & Anakin who have demonstrated the ability to use Tutamanisis. He also hasn't ever been shown to explictly fail to mount a defence against force lightning like Luke has.

Luke has:

  • Never been trained how to deflect force lightning
  • Explictly failed to deflect lightning or even put any sort of defence that wasn't begging
  • Was surprised the ability even exists

Rey is supposed to be equally powerful as Kylo but I don't consider her capable of using Kylo's force freeze technique (before Rise of Skywalker at least), nor do I think Kylo is capable of generating force lightning.

Rey, Kylo, Grogu can all heal people with the force and I think you'd argree considering them below Anakin in power but they can all use the force healing abilities that turned Anakin into an edgelord in the effort to learn.

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TheVivas

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You claim Luke *can’t* do something and you suddenly get a group jumping down your throat. Interesting.

And yes, he still has no answer for Lightning.

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Kaore

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Luke should be able to take either alone, but I doubt he can defeat them together. Talzin would also be extremely unfamiliar to Luke, which may throw him off.

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Landon_Rogers00

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@thevivas said:

You claim Luke *can’t* do something and you suddenly get a group jumping down your throat. Interesting.

And yes, he still has no answer for Lightning.

^

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turtleman1878

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@frozen said:
@turtleman1878 said:

Duo wins easily. Either one can solo Luke.

Talzin can definitely not beat Luke.

Talzin was close to Sidious in power and fought evenly with Mace. Luke doesn't have the feats to surpass this.

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frozen

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#50  Edited By frozen  Moderator
@turtleman1878 said:
@frozen said:
@turtleman1878 said:

Duo wins easily. Either one can solo Luke.

Talzin can definitely not beat Luke.

Talzin was close to Sidious in power and fought evenly with Mace. Luke doesn't have the feats to surpass this.

Talzin was close to TCW Sidious, who is far below OT Sidious.

ROTS Sidious is around equal to Knightfall Vader, who in turn scales below suit Vader. BoBF Luke > ROTJ Luke = ROTJ Vader > Knightfall Vadeer = ROTS Sidious.

See this blog for further detail - https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/frozen/blog/darth-vader-is-more-powerful-than-yoda-in-the-forc/164968/