Bloodlusted Jean Grey vs Thor - can she beat him?

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onsipin

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#1  Edited By onsipin

Just standard 616 comic versions for both, no Phoenix for Jean and Thor has Mjolnir.

Obviously Thor is more powerful and he’d beat her in a regular fight, but if Jean is blood lusted, could she beat him with hax attacks? I saw an invisible woman vs Thor thread where the question was raised in the OP if she could beat Thor if she were willing to kill, with a bubble expanding in his head or lungs etc, so I was wondering if Jean could do the same. Could she kill him by Cushing his heart or his brain with her telekinesis? Could she shut down his mind with telepathy? Etc.

Sorry if this has been done before, but the results I found were for Phoenix Jean and movie versions.

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dark_globe

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the only way she could win is via telepathy .
or phoenix obviously .
if she fails to use TP very fast and effectively she dies .

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onsipin

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@dark_globe: how is his TP resistance? Also, would she not be able to use TK on his organs the way Sue would?

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Mooty_Pass

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#4  Edited By Mooty_Pass

Depends on how good Thor TP resistance is though. Jean is a powerful TP user(IMO) she should have no problem shutting his brain off.

But if Thor's TP resistance is extremely high? Then Jean is going to lose.

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dark_globe

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her TK would not work , thor is too strong and durable for that .
his TP resistance is mediocre at best however .
scarlet was able to affect his mind in avengers ultron and jean is much stronger TP user than her .

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Helloman

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Maybe.

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onsipin

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@dark_globe: this is the comics/616 version though not the movie versions sorry if this was unclear.

Does thor’s Durability include his internal organs?

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geekryan

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Phoenix Five Emma couldn't do anything to Thor in terms of TP:

No Caption Provided

In fact, looking into his mind caused HER pain. Thor didn't even flinch.

Current Jean and Phoenix Five Emma should be similar in telepathy, but P5 Emma is probably slightly superior due to statements and implications.

If P5 Emma couldn't affect Thor with telepathy, I don't see how Jean would.

Her only chance is TK and going for an internal attack, but I don't think that is likely.

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onsipin

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#9  Edited By onsipin

@geekryan: I went through a Xavier vs Thor thread and apparently Thor's Tp resistance is inconsistent. Red Skull with Xavier's brain, that is his power and not his skill, meaning 0 skill since he isn't a telepath himself, took control of Thor. Also in AvX, Xavier took out Thor and also mind-wiped him. I personally hold Jean in the same calibre as Xavier, not quire sure about yourself and others, but I think telepathy isn't necessarily out of the question?

I wonder about TK though. A lot of the comments on the Thor vs IW woman thread are about how she could take him out with internal attacks, and while Jean's TK and Sue's FFs are different, they act and are used in a similar manner, so would that work on Thor? Are his internal organs susceptible to such attacks or do even his organs share his durability? Could Jean crush his heart or brain, or maybe even his eyeballs or something with TK? I think generally she is around a similar power-level as Sue

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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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Jean couldn't beat Gladiator , Thor beats her.

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del_torro

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@geekryan: that same event Xavier shut him down and Rachel got into his mind without screaming "oh god".

He's kind of inconsistent, he can defend from Mind Gem Moondragon, but normal Moondragon can control him.

She can do internal attacks, but I think he can survive. He's had his liver turned into broken glass,had the necro sword eat into all his internal otgans and survived other things like that

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KrleAvenger

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Of course she can. All she has to do is use telepathy to either mind control him, put him to sleep or create psionic blasts. Thor was affected by telepaths on Jean's level and below more times than not.

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deactivated-5ed8b26019d3f

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Hasn’t Rachel blocked his attacks? Since his resistances are so inconsistent and he can withstand internal injury apparently, I’m going with a stalemate.

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PyroFN

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@dark_globe: “her TK would not work , thor is too strong and durable for that.”

Tell that to her daughter Rachel Summers, who beat Thor with her. Rachel is confirmed to not be as powerful as her mother, so by continuity, Jeans tk should at the very list slow Thor down.

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somayareece

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#15  Edited By somayareece

Did Rachel beat current Thor? If so then that would be irrelevant considering Jean would possibly oneshot current Thor lol.

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PyroFN

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@geekryan: The problem wasn’t Thor’s resistance. The problem was she was looking into the mind of a god. She may have been possessed by the Phoenix, but she had little to no control over it once she accumulated more of its pieces, so of course Emma couldn’t handle the mind of a god.

Jean on the other hand could. By virtue of her encounter of the Stranger, we figure out that unlike Cain Marko, she could handle the information from the universe, which in my eyes should equal the mind of a god.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/62Cn6ls_9NRbG3vqxJK6m6B7pnbQBGziZ7HX9m6Iu9wU_wsn12L-yn59NHZhamKiUkTKTw1q2kQS=s1600

Rachel herself touches on this subject of knowing what the mind of a god is like based on her experience with the Phoenix.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/LZk2khxvxKODSsQlVghKZ9FlBvLiYCrjySaFqs1irLUTvF_HEY5T9SGLdbZSog0xmcIkVOyqywyS=s1600

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green_skaar

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No. Thor could resist long enough to kill her.

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PyroFN

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@the_red_devil: Hah! A teenage version of her beat the blue punk-looking Superman clone. Her adult version would probably slaughter the guy based around experience.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/cf/03/a1cf03bfbc17a4303ab71e2ec43d2fe5.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179559/4596323-006.jpg

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PyroFN

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@green_skaar: Again, Tell that to her daughter who beat him. For the record, Rachel Summers is not as powerful as Jean Grey.

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green_skaar

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Um sure, I"ll get Rachel on the horn and tell her...

@pyrofn said:

@green_skaar: Again, Tell that to her daughter who beat him. For the record, Rachel Summers is not as powerful as Jean Grey.

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PyroFN

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As for what I say can happen in this battle with a bloodlusted Jean Grey,

•She can stop his motor functions.

•She can cause projections that are solid enough and as dangerous as the originals.

•Or a simple mind blast powerful enough to down him.

•Or bed like her teenage version did. (I’m kidding about this last one, but it’s still funny)

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111173561/5931280-7901612930-read-.jpg

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TheWatcherKing

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#22  Edited By TheWatcherKing

@the_red_devil said:

Jean couldn't beat Gladiator , Thor beats her.

That was the O5 version of Jean Grey, not regular Jean Grey that is in this battle. Even so that version stalemated Gladiator and ragdolled Thor so that is an awful example.

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deactivated-6044a3a59a9f4

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guys, did you even see CURRENT Thor??

Jean bitch slaps him lol.

if this was pre Aaron's shit writing then it would be a good match but this is a spite.

Jean low diffs.

@somayareece said:

Did Rachel beat current Thor? If so then that would be irrelevant considering Jean would possibly oneshot current Thor lol.

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del_torro

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@thewatcherking: O5 Jean is adult Jean. After extermination, she gained all the memories and skills a 05 Jean learnt after the timeline was restored.

But you're right, O5 Jean was knocking gladiator on his Ass and stalemated him, and was ragdolling Thor. Jean was recently using apocalypse as a ragdoll too.

But telekinesis won't do much because Thor has regeneration and high pain Tolerance. He has survived his insides being turned to broken glass, had body being eaten by the necrosword, being tortured with the necrosword for days, his eyes burning in the sun, regenerating his teeth as they are ripped out to torture him. So internal attacks will be ignored or regenerated from.

Ragdolling won't do much but annoy him.

Holding him in place is futile. He'll either break free eventually or she'll grow tired.

Telepathy is her best bet.

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marvelfan1992

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#26  Edited By marvelfan1992

@del_torro said:

@thewatcherking: O5 Jean is adult Jean. After extermination, she gained all the memories and skills a 05 Jean learnt after the timeline was restored.

But you're right, O5 Jean was knocking gladiator on his Ass and stalemated him, and was ragdolling Thor. Jean was recently using apocalypse as a ragdoll too.

But telekinesis won't do much because Thor has regeneration and high pain Tolerance. He has survived his insides being turned to broken glass, had body being eaten by the necrosword, being tortured with the necrosword for days, his eyes burning in the sun, regenerating his teeth as they are ripped out to torture him. So internal attacks will be ignored or regenerated from.

Ragdolling won't do much but annoy him.

Holding him in place is futile. He'll either break free eventually or she'll grow tired.

Telepathy is her best bet.

What if she crushes his brain into mush though. or his heart. Isn't that instant death? Or is he kinda immortal like Wolverine

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Tzimiscelord

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If she is facing Aarons thor,, then jean, easily.

Otherwise, thor should be more than capable of resisting TP long enough to defeat her.

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GXrevs06

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Hard to say. Comics are too damn inconsistent. That is the problem with having dozens of writers working the same book

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TheWatcherKing

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@thewatcherking: O5 Jean is adult Jean. After extermination, she gained all the memories and skills a 05 Jean learnt after the timeline was restored.

But you're right, O5 Jean was knocking gladiator on his Ass and stalemated him, and was ragdolling Thor. Jean was recently using apocalypse as a ragdoll too.

But telekinesis won't do much because Thor has regeneration and high pain Tolerance. He has survived his insides being turned to broken glass, had body being eaten by the necrosword, being tortured with the necrosword for days, his eyes burning in the sun, regenerating his teeth as they are ripped out to torture him. So internal attacks will be ignored or regenerated from.

Ragdolling won't do much but annoy him.

Holding him in place is futile. He'll either break free eventually or she'll grow tired.

Telepathy is her best bet.

I know that but someone brought how she couldn’t beat gladiator, I was merely pointing out that wasn’t the regular Jean that’s in this thread and she still taken on Thor.

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Brittonic_para

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Im going to make a case that not only thor would win, but that every attack jean would do would be ineffective or entirly futile. Cant wait to see some replys.

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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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@the_red_devil said:

Jean couldn't beat Gladiator , Thor beats her.

That was the O5 version of Jean Grey, not regular Jean Grey that is in this battle. Even so that version stalemated Gladiator and ragdolled Thor so that is an awful example.

I don't know about her rag-dolling Thor , but did she do that to Worthy Thor or after he became Unworthy ?

@pyrofn said:

@the_red_devil: Hah! A teenage version of her beat the blue punk-looking Superman clone. Her adult version would probably slaughter the guy based around experience.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a1/cf/03/a1cf03bfbc17a4303ab71e2ec43d2fe5.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111179559/4596323-006.jpg

Huh ? Those scans you posted are from Guardians of The Galaxy Vol 3 #13 , Jean at this point had better control and experience and yet Gladiator tanked three blasts from her and then before the fight could escalate Oracle , knocked them out temporarily with her telepathy.Jean couldn't put down Gladiator in that instance.

Even Classic Jean couldn't put Gladiator down in an issue of X-Men Classic.

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onsipin

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@the_red_devil: it was worthy Thor with Mjolnir, but he wasn't fighting her and it didn't really harm him, he was just getting tossed around

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LordOfFate

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Thor's inconsistency against telepathy is so odd to me.

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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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@onsipin said:

@the_red_devil: it was worthy Thor with Mjolnir, but he wasn't fighting her and it didn't really harm him, he was just getting tossed around

Which Story and issue is it from ? I should check it out.

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onsipin

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#36  Edited By onsipin

@lordoffate: it's probably more to do with telepathy in itself, rather than Thor. Someone pointed out to me awhile ago that telepathy is probably one of the most plot-dependent powers around. Due to how it works (and the large amount of people that have it as a power, especially in the x-men side of things), it's too hax to be portrayed in a consistent manner. That's why you have tons of people resisting it at certain points, then being utterly defeated by it at other times.

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CaptFalcon725

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her TK would not work , thor is too strong and durable for that .

his TP resistance is mediocre at best however .

scarlet was able to affect his mind in avengers ultron and jean is much stronger TP user than her .

Is that so? Bloodlusted Jean Grey wipes his mind clean.

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onsipin

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@the_red_devil: All-New X-Men (2013) Issue 12. Although that's basically the entire "fight' . Thor is next shown standing in the background just fine

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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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@onsipin said:

@the_red_devil: All-New X-Men (2013) Issue 12. Although that's basically the entire "fight' . Thor is next shown standing in the background just fine

Alright , thanks.

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noah_ouellette

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@onsipin: Yes. He is asgardian. His physiology is his entire being. Unlike Luke cage where simply his skin is durable.

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Helloman

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This is difficult to decide.

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The_living_tribunal_24

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she may beat current thor imo

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Gaoron

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Comics are too inconsistent, just toss a coin 50/50 chance of either winning.

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del_torro

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@marvelfan1992: crushing his brain sounds like it could work, but the problem is that is organs are also incredibly dense and tough. I have a hard time believing her internal attacks will work on him.

Though, if someone can prove that they can work, she has some ways to attack internally, since she destroyed indestructible materials like apocalypse celestial armor and Fitzroys omium mesh armor.

-exploding his head

-fusing/compressing his brain

-clotting the blood in his brain or heart

-I think molecular/atomic level attacks could do some things (I'm not sure if he has tanked those kinds of attacks, but he may have)

-ripping out eyes

@the_red_devil: Huh ? Those scans you posted are from Guardians of The Galaxy Vol 3 #13 , Jean at this point had better control and experience and yet Gladiator tanked three blasts from her and then before the fight could escalate Oracle , knocked them out temporarily with her telepathy.Jean couldn't put down Gladiator in that instance.

- That's a teenage Jean grey, how does she have better control and experience than adult Jean grey.

Even Classic Jean couldn't put Gladiator down in an issue of X-Men Classic.

-When did Classic Jean grey fight Gladiator and not be able to put him down. The only time Jean faced Gladiator was when she was dark Phoenix and she oneshot him and the Imperial guard with a single energy blast.

Thors physical strength is not something Jean as never dealt with before.

-she has treated Apocalypse like her toy. Some one that goes toe to toe against Thor.

-she has restrained Hercules and Namor at the same time

-she has restrained the thing

-she has claimed that she could restrain Juggernaut and he agreed that she could

-Her shield has tanked a hit from a Guardian of the mkraan crystal. Someone who stomped gladiator and one shot Nate greys shields

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PyroFN

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@the_red_devil: •“Huh ? Those scans you posted are from Guardians of The Galaxy Vol 3 #13 , Jean at this point had better control and experience and yet Gladiator tanked three blasts from her and then before the fight could escalate Oracle , knocked them out temporarily with her telepathy.Jean couldn't put down Gladiator in that instance.”

Not permanently, but she did put him down. This scan shows him still in the process of getting up as his Shiar Imperial Guard tried to get him to stop. Clearly he was more affected than you perceive.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/aQxFPuHy9iKGn7JFD6ud6dzySRjLn8Oil11EaX9p0dCnGid7dujfgtAiv_xhcSQUKLSIPTvsbila=s1600

Needless to say, that was Teen Jeans first time using that ability and Gladiator couldn’t put down a version that is so much weaker than the real deal. Not to mention Extermination integrates all Teen Jeans history into the real thing, which means Jean Greys teen years, she was already stalemating a bloodlusted Gladiator who couldn’t put her down after using a new power for the first time.

If you think it’s an outlier, you can also refer to Jean casually blocking a punch from Black Bolt, whose gone toe-to-toe with Gladiator. Or an unconscious Jean Grey pushing back a team of Avengers consisting of Hercules, Namor, Wasp, Black Knight, and Captain America underwater in duress.

•“Even Classic Jean couldn't put Gladiator down in an issue of X-Men Classic.”

What issue are you talking about? You mean Phoenix after barely getting her powers and so exhausted she couldn’t even stand? The same Phoenix who repaired a multiversal object and eats stars as balanced nutritious breakfast?

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Brittonic_para

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#48  Edited By Brittonic_para

Here are some things about thor, along with spme explaining and such.

the first thing to cover is telepathy. Thor has great telepathic resistance, even in the classic days. for example, he has not only resisted Loki

But Also Horus, who i believe is a skyfather(?), but either way, it shows thor is not helpless.

in More resent years, he has resisted the likes of Emma Frost amped by 1/5th of the phoenix, Rachel Summers, and even the red skull Xavier needed permission to enter Thor's mind.

Now the first two feats are pretty clear, they try to enter Thor's mind and he resists, but the last one is a bit confusing so i will try to shed some light on it, especially for @onsipin since he actually brought up this misconception. if you see the man walking next to Thor at the beginning of the scan, that is honest john, a man committed to Red Skull. he posses the ability to turn himself into whoever the person find the greatest leader, in Thor's case, Odin. that is why he is referred to as "the living propaganda". what you are seeing is not a telepathic attack working on the god of thunder, but him taking the shape of Odin and convincing him to submit to the red skull in the form of the wisest man Thor knows, because the skull was not able to use telepathy on Thor to start with.

now, i have more feats but for the sake of not scan dumping i will hold back. however, if anybody wants to see him resist moon dragon (twice), Man beast, the stranger, or regillian i can oblige. now, the next thing is telekinesis. its been said that she could just crush his organs from the inside by people in this thread, but unfortunately, its been done.

http://i.imgur.com/sretufo.jpg (for some reason it wont link this one, just copy and past the URL.)

His liver was turned to glass, and he then somehow moved the glass through his body, spat it at malakeith, then kept fighting.

as a matter of fact, asgardians do pretty good without organs in general.

after removal of the heart, an asgardian started to recover, and this scan seems to say that Thor would do it even faster So, i doubt that would work. its also worth mentioning that jean using telekinesis on the molecular level may not even work, as its been stated that Thor has unusual molecules, that in this scan, are apparently even immune to being frozen.

I hope I have been able to show enough feats to convince people, and if you need any clarification on feats posted, need any more feats for mental durability or even something like striking power/ability to break her shield, or durability to take her blasts ( didn't include them here since everyone seems to have a mindset that he can deal with those) just ask, and I am happy to help.

@del_torro @pyrofn

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deactivated-6021b09dd509c

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@pyrofn: That wasn't Jean who put him out , after Jean blasted her 3 times and just before Jean and Gladiator could clash again , Oracle shut both of them down with her telepathy(Link) (As she was already inside Jeans mind and Gladiator isn't much immune to telepathy) , it was Oracle , not Jean. And this was O5 Jean , who is stronger than her regular self , which was clearly stated as well (Link). At-least know the context of what you are talking about.

And Classic X-Men was a series of it's own , and in one issue Gladiator took a combined blast from Jean and Cyclops , and that wasn't Dark Phoenix.

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LordOfAllHumans

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Jean can win.