Bloodlusted Flash (Wally West) vs bloodlusted Virgo Shaka - who wins?

Virgo Shaka won't even notice him.

Wally gets fodderized.

This is put of Wally League.

Any feats for Shaka showing defense against speed-stealing? Or infinite mass punches? Or being dumped inside the speed force?

@frecky-frack: Shaka doesn’t have a body, and he can move between dimensions. Seem he can also go to the past seem in next dimension. So either if flash can do that to an astral being, than Shaka doesn’t has no answer to flash.

When you say Shaka doesn't have a body, do you mean he is inherently an incorporeal entity such as Marvel abstracts like Eternity? Or do you mean he is intangible, but is made of physical matter like Martian Manhunter?

As if he is the latter, then Flash could still affect such intangible characters and steal their speed.

@frecky-frack: He is not like Eternity , but he is not intangible like MMH who still have a physical body. Shaka die in the war, against hades. He doesn’t have a physical body, with the 8 sense he can maintain an astral form and fight in his astral form. Had flash affected someone with no physical body before ? I also i am replying now, cause comicvine is not sending me notifications.

Naturally, this sense would only awaken after death, when all other senses are lost, and wouldn't allow human consciousness to remain while in the form of a soul. However, it is possible to achieve the eighth sense while alive, in which case the user can even keep their consciousness after reaching the underworld[ Here a Brief description of the 8 sense

So does Shaka start the fight without any physical body? Or does he start the fight in a physical body then enters the astral plane?

If it's the former, then Flash just speed-steals Shaka into a statue where he is totally immobile and destroys his body with millions of infinite mass punches / superman level punches a nanosecond at worst. Or just leaves him there after Shaka's speed is stolen.

If Shaka starts off the fight in his astral plane and Flash is aware there is a fight, but against someone he can't perceive, he could just enter the speed-force and it'll just be a stalemate from there.

Also, does Shaka have any answers to time-travel? Since Flash could just go back in time and Kill Shaka's parents before he was born, or kill Shaka when he was still a baby?

@frecky-frack: Shaka is always in his astral form do the 8 sense and the fact he does not have a physical body. Well Shaka being a Gold saint he is able to travel through space and time. He can also travel to the past seen in next dimension, so I believe Shaka can follow flash to the past.

But only a speed-force user can enter the speed-force and for anybody else to enter the speed-force, a speed-force user must allow it first. So Shaka can't just follow Flash into the speed-force (even if he can traverse dimensions) unless Flash allows him to, since Flash controls the speed-force and Shaka has no control over that dimension.

And even if Shaka can time-travel, does he have any feats to suggest he can out-race someone who can move faster than instant (which Flash can do)? He still has to have the speed to keep-up with Flash, even if he decides to follow Flash to the past. But does he have that speed? What's his best speed feat? And remember, blood-lusted Flash is extremely overpowered, to the point where he can just steal speed from anything and everything that moves and amp himself indefinitely, until he reaches a speed where nobody can keep up with him. He has for all intent and purposes, infinite speed. What are Shaka's best speed feats in comparison?

Can Shaka move in a Planck instant? Or 24 tredecillion times the speed of light?

@frecky-frack: shaka has no where the speed of flash, correct me if I am wrong but superboy prime did, scape , the speed force after flash bfr him there. Ik he struggle to, but he did scape from there. Again had flash ever, speed steal someone with no physical body? Gold saint can travel through space and time, seen in lost canvas gaiden . Where the aquarium, gold cloth enter to a pocket dimension, that was separated from the sanctuary. Also remember killing shaka physical body, won’t help much since. He has control over his soul. Shaka wanted to get hit by an universal lvl, attack to fully master the 8 sense. Another thing , shaka can travel through dimensions with the 8 senses, he went to the past and didn’t take him forever. I am not saying shaka beat flash, but neither does flash beat shaka. Unless flash has feats of destroying someone soul completely.

Also I didn’t said shaka will follow wally through the speed force, but to the past .

Shaka wins...in his fight against Shijima it was stated to create and destroy countless universes. That's way out of Wally's league.

Gold Saints are incredibly fast, Shaka has powerful shields...and he has the durability of his cloth.

3 gold saints had to use a universal level attack to defeat him. I'm not sure Flash has anything that can harm him. And i don't think BFR would work either.

Shaka is stated to be the reincarnation of Buddha. I would put my money on him. If he was a DC character he would be, at least, at skyfather level or above.

Shaka casually roflstomps but comicvine doesn't want their golden boy to lose going by votes.

Superboy prime may have escaped the speed-force, but he did not ENTER the speed-force without a speed-force user's permission, that controls the speed-force. Escaping and entering aren't the same. Shaka may be able to escape the speed-force if Flash dumps him inside, but I'm not saying Flash is going to do that.

No, Flash hasn't shown the ability to speed-steal from something that is totally non-physical. But even if he can't, he wouldn't need to speed-steal from Shaka, he can speed-steal from everything around him, until he reaches a speed that Shaka can't keep up with, unless Shaka has comparable speed feats. But do keep in mind, that an amped Flash has already shown the ability to run at 24 tredecillion times the speed of light, and the ability to move in a planck instant. At his fastest, he has also shown the ability to beat instant teleportation. So a blood-lusted Wally would have no qualms at speed-stealing everything to reach those speeds again. So the question now is, has Shaka shown any speed-feat that can match those speed-feats of Wally, be it through amping his own speed or through inherently having such speed?

If Shaka can't match these amped version of Wally's speed-feats, then it wouldn't matter if he tries to follow Wally back in time, because Wally would go back in time quicker before Shaka can even catch him, to kill Shaka or even his entire family before Shaka was even born. Then, Shaka would no longer have existed at all in the first place and would therefore be dead whilst he's struggling to keep up with Flash.

So if all fails, Flash can just do this! Unless Shaka has shown resistance to that.

Shaka wins with his eyes closed.

Flash has already incapacitated and destroyed the armor of a multiversal entity in Anti-Monitor who devours universes like food / snack. And Anti Monitor > Virgo Shaka and Shijima put together. So the idea that this is out of Wally's league and that Wally has nothing to harm such a character, is just a myth.

An amped Wally (which a blood-lusted Wally would also be) has speed-feats that make 1 second, look like the age of the entire universe, the ability to beat instant teleportation and the ability to move in a planck length. So how does Shaka even hope to land anything worth of note to a character of that much speed? What's Shaka's best speed-feat?

@frecky-frack: first, and important, this is your thread. By rules you can't argue in it.

Second, you really think that Flash can consistently affect multiversal characters? Spiderman beat Firelord, Black Panther held SS in a chokehold and you don't see anyone using those as valid.

Shura, a less powerful Gold Saint, for example, outsped the initial expansion of the universe.

Flash gets consistently defeated by much less powerful characters. He is a herald level character, a very powerful one, sure. But he is not beating skyfathers and above if written properly. He would have trouble with a guy like Silver Surfer. The same SS who is MUCH faster than light and still gets beaten regularly by Thanos or Strange, guys that don't have speed feats close to him.

When will people understand that after you reach a certain power level speed becomes irrelevant.

Spectre, Galactus, Odin, Trigon, Franklin...none of these guys have speed feats coming anywhere near Wally, are you going to argue that he can beat them because of speed?

That are various scans showing that Flash still needs an acceleration period before reaching top speeds, or scans showing that he can punch from a couple hundred to a couple thousand a minute. People just like to use high end feats as they are consistent. And i'm far from a Flash expert.

As for how will he land an attack on Flash, his attacks are rarely physical. His attacks are directed to the soul of his opponent. He doesn't need to see or touch his opponent.

The Treasure of heavens can remove his 5 senses, and if he still survives, he can remove your consciousness (the sixth sense)

He has a technique that can send your spirit/soul to different realms. It's not Flash's physical body, but his soul. Can he come back from that? Can he resist soul manipulation on that level?

He can send demons to eat your soul...

And he is a character that can use offense and defense at the same time. Usually the opponents attack is redirected at them. He has TK too. He has illusions. He is considered the most versatile and most powerful (= to Saga) of the gold saints.

This is not a fist fight at all. Shaka will probably seat inside his shield and just destroy Wally's soul.

@frecky-frack: I will sound like a broken record , but it doesn’t matter if flash goes to the past. It was showed that Shaka and gold saints can travel through space and time . In the next dimension, Shaka went to the past , it wasn’t showed that he took forever. He took less time , than Ikki and baby Athena who was sent there by cronus. Again doesn’t matter if you kill Shaka, to completely kill Shaka. You have to destroy his soul, something flash can’t do. Unless you have a scan of flash doing so, like I said shaka it is at least mftl but nothing on flash lvl. But Shaka wanted to get hit by an universal+ attack. For him to master the 8 sense. And I am only talking about shaka from the original serie , if you add his other feats. From episode 5 he can scale to multi universal. Flash has the speed, but he can’t do nothing to shaka on a spiritual lvl.

@frecky-frack: I will sound like a broken record , but it doesn’t matter if flash goes to the past. It was showed that Shaka and gold saints can go travel through space and time . In the next dimension, Shaka went to the past , it wasn’t showed that he took forever. He took less time , than Ikki and baby Athena who was sent there by cronus. Again doesn’t matter if you kill Shaka, to completely kill Shaka. You have to destroy his soul, something flash can’t do. Unless you have a scan of flash doing so, like I said shaka it is at least mftl but nothing on flash lvl. But Shaka wanted to get hit by an universal+ attack. For him to master the 8 sense. And I am only talking about shaka from the original serie , if you add his other feats. From episode g he can scale to multi universal. Flash has the speed, but he can’t do nothing to shaka on a spiritual lvl.

@frecky-frack: His fight with the Anti-Monitor was PIS. Period. If we're going to accept ridiculous high-ends then Spiderman is herald tier, Thor is abstract tier, and Sentry is above MM who put the omniverse in a box.

Depends if Wally can resist his senses being shut off

Wally Multiversal LOL

And those feats of Shaka are also high-end too. Remember that this is a blood-lusted version of wally, so high-end feats would count as Flash would do things beyond what he usually does in battles. Both here are blood-lusted. Flash has enough feats to prove characters at the speed of Shaka are like statues to him, and before they even formed a single thought, Wally would have lived the lifespan of the universe.

It also depends if Shaka's ability to even form a thought, is stolen from him through speed steal before Shaka even thinks about doing anything to Flash.

Bloodlusted doesn't mean we accept PIS like his fight with AM. Shaka has a much more consistent basis on being much more powerful and gold saints in general are easily MFTL+ at their best.

But again, what's Shaka's maximum speed? If he has no speed feats of travelling at a Planck length or over 24 tredecillion times the speed of light, he will only be a statue to Flash and Flash would've already gone to the past, and would've done the job before Shaka even knows what Wally did.

But if what you say about Shaka, that the only way to kill him is to destroy his soul, then Wally won't be able to permanently kill him I guess. But what exactly can Shaka do if Flash enters the speed force? Shaka himself can't enter the speed force unless a speed-force user or someone connected to the speed-force allows him to. And the speed-force allows protects Flash.

Flash has never been beaten by any such character when blood-lusted. Those only happened when Wally wasn't serious.

A blood-lusted Wally can affect multiversal characters, depending upon who they are.

Also, out-speeding the expansion of the universe is something Wally can do in his sleep. Wally has outran death and can move 23+ tredecillion times the speed of light. And I'm yet to see any scan of those saints moving anywhere near that fast. So they'll still be a statue to Wally ,despite being able to out-speed the expansion of the universe.

Wally can't beat abstracts like Galactus or eternity because they are a fundamental force of nature, like the speed-force itself is, and he has no no way of attacking such abstracts because they control reality altogether or are part of reality as a whole. Meaning, anything that happens to them, would affect Wally as well.

But Wally can definitely destroy characters like Odin since before he even thinks to use his powers, he'd already be dead.

And the speed-force allows Flash to travel instantly.

It being a PIS is merely your opinion. That feat happened and it is a fact, whether you like it or not. And Flash is more than capable of dishing out such damage when blood-lusted.

And the Saint's maximum speed from what I've read, is septillion times the speed of light. Which would still make them appear as statues in front of Flash, unless they have shown feats that surpasses moving at a planck length, beating instant teleportation and moving faster than 23 tredecillions times the speed of light.

@frecky-frack:

It being a PIS is merely your opinion.

So Wally is consistently multiversal now? lol gtfo

That feat happened and it is a fact, whether you like it or not.

You know what else happened? Batman drawing blood from Darkseid and Black Panther restraining Silver Surfer. Just because it happened doesn't mean they aren't PIS.

Gallery

And Flash is more than capable of dishing out such damage when blood-lusted.

Wally West can dish out more damage than all pre-crisis superheroes combined? Are you fucking kidding me?

And the Saint's maximum speed from what I've read, is septillion times the speed of light. Which would still make them appear as statues in front of Flash, unless they have shown feats that surpasses moving at a planck length, beating instant teleportation and moving faster than 23 tredecillions times the speed of light.

You mean the feat that was accomplished by Flash being heavily amped? The OP says to the best of their abilities, nothing is mentioned about amps.

@frecky-frack: You are using high ends feats from flash, flash doesn’t always fight at that speed, he had been bested before. But again he has no mean to put shaka down, if flash goes to the speed force than he stay there. And it is most likely a stalemate!

Yh, but Flash also isn't always blood-lusted either. So we're not going by how Flash fights usually. We're going by a blood-lusted Flash, who is never bested by anything short of a Galactus tier character.

But I could agree with the rest of your comment!

@gangorca said:

@frecky-frack:

It being a PIS is merely your opinion.

So Wally is consistently multiversal now? lol gtfo

That feat happened and it is a fact, whether you like it or not.

You know what else happened? Batman drawing blood from Darkseid and Black Panther restraining Silver Surfer. Just because it happened doesn't mean they aren't PIS.

Gallery

And Flash is more than capable of dishing out such damage when blood-lusted.

Wally West can dish out more damage than all pre-crisis superheroes combined? Are you fucking kidding me?

And the Saint's maximum speed from what I've read, is septillion times the speed of light. Which would still make them appear as statues in front of Flash, unless they have shown feats that surpasses moving at a planck length, beating instant teleportation and moving faster than 23 tredecillions times the speed of light.

You mean the feat that was accomplished by Flash being heavily amped? The OP says to the best of their abilities, nothing is mentioned about amps.

Wally also isn't consistently blood-lusted. So how Wally is consistently is irrelevant here in this thread.

Black Panther never restrained Silver Surfer. He only got him in a head-lock because Silver Surfer chose not to fight back.

And if you want to go by consistency, then even Shaka is nowhere near as powerful as being made out here. By consistency, the saints are human like for the most part, in the sense that they can't survive in outer-space because it is generally a toxic and deadly environment to them. This is cannon!

Case in point:

Meanwhile, Flash due to the speed-force has no problems surviving in outer - space or in those environments that are CONSISTENTLY toxic and dangerous for those saints by their own admission.

And given that Flash can speed-steal and move at a speed which makes all the other JLA members look like statues next to him, he can deliver millions of strikes before they even deliver one. So yes, he can dish-out more damage than all of them combined if he is blood-lusted as they would be rendered a statue to him, since he is astronomically faster than all of them COMBINED.

You do realize that speed-stealing is a standard ability that Wally West consistently has, and that he can amp his speed whenever he wants using speed-steal? So claiming Flash was amped there is irrelevant, because he can also amp himself in this battle too in the same way, because his ability to amp his speed through speed-stealing remains as it is a standard ability and is not stated to not be a part of this battle. So that point of yours is moot!

@frecky-frack: “Wally also isn't consistently blood-lusted. So how Wally is consistently is irrelevant here in this thread.”

Except it isn’t. You need feats to prove the level of a character. All of those feats put together creates a consistent level of that characters power. Name one other time Wally has performed a Multiversal striking feat directly. You can’t because this instance is an outlier.

“Black Panther never restrained Silver Surfer. He only got him in a head-lock because Silver Surfer chose not to fight back.”

Silver Surfer has no reason not to fight back until BP started negotiating with him, then he listened. BP’s assault clearly catches him off guard and it restrains him. There’s also many more instances of PIS that have happened before.

“And if you want to go by consistency, then even Shaka is nowhere near as powerful as being made out here. By consistency, the saints are human like for the most part, in the sense that they can't survive in outer-space because it is generally a toxic and deadly environment to them. This is cannon!”

Good fucking grief. That scan is in reference to them moving so fast in the atmosphere that they can burn up. Saints have survived in space multiple times.

“And given that Flash can speed-steal and move at a speed which makes all the other JLA members look like statues next to him, he can deliver millions of strikes before they even deliver one. So yes, he can dish-out more damage than all of them combined if he is blood-lusted as they would be rendered a statue to him, since he is astronomically faster than all of them COMBINED.”

Lol this Wally fanboying needs to stop. You do know that pre-crisis heroes are much faster and more powerful than the ones Wally hangs out with, right? Wally’s best striking feats aren’t on the same level as pre-crisis Superman’s striking. I would also like to say Spectre did less harm to the Anti-Monitor but I don’t wanna give the Flash worshippers any ideas.

“You do realize that speed-stealing is a standard ability that Wally West consistently has, and that he can amp his speed whenever he wants using speed-steal? So claiming Flash was amped there is irrelevant, because he can also amp himself in this battle too in the same way, because his ability to amp his speed through speed-stealing remains as it is a standard ability and is not stated to not be a part of this battle. So that point of yours is moot!”

Where does it say Wally can speed steal from the league or the world? Because that’s what would need to be involved for your worthless point to be accurate. That’s what’s called an AMP, when you receive outside powers. Nothing is specified about Wally receiving help from the Earth or the JLA.

Shaka wins, eyes closed.

@frecky-frack: gotchu, also you taking the scan with shura out of context. Shiryu is using a technique, to kill both of them is not that they can’t survive in space. Also shura is fodders compare to shaka, I mean most of the original gold saints are fodders. If we talk about the original series. Shaka is the other hand is a whole different story. Which he was above everyone else, the only one to come close was saga. And Shaka is way above him!