Bleeding Edge Iron Man vs The Thing (H2H)

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Lilbroomstick

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#151  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@ecstaticgrace said:
@lilbroomstick said:
@ecstaticgrace said:

@lilbroomstick: I’m not arguing that his high ends should be disregarded and his lowends should be used. I think it makes more sense to use performance against characters at a vague amount.

While actually looking at stats the character has on his own merit. There’s nothing wrong with for example saying Ironman’s repulsors can harm Thor or that The Thing can rock Hulk with a punch but it’s more efficient to look at what the repulsors or The Thing can do on their own merit without scaling on characters who have their own personal feats.

Iron Man and generally everyone got most of their clear destruction feats in the classic days. Iron Man has shattered mountains with the shockwaves of his punches, bursted through a mountain the size of Manhattan, tanked a West Coast destroying blast, casually moved/cracked an entire man-made island, and survived an explosion that was powerful enough to be felt in China. Iron Man does get more feats like that with extremis tanking 5 nukes at less than 5% power and his space armor surviving another West Coast destroying blast but generally he now focuses more on speed since that seemed to be the least focused stat in the past. I mean if Thanos hasn't destroyed a planet in a while does that mean his feats of fighting the avengers should be disregarded until he destroys more planets? I just think with the feats Iron Man already has shown without scaling it should be enough for his feats that require scaling to be valid. It's like saying Bleeding edge/extremis are weaker than the classic armors in everything besides speed despite it being shown that's not the case.

I do think Thing benefits from scaling more than Iron Man does based off the arguments made for him and the fact that the greatest strength feat I remember for him was in the 30,000 ton range.

The difference between Thanos and Ironman though is that Ironman has several long running series that’s why it’s fair to compare him to Thor and Hulk who perform feats on their own without scaling to other characters because the protagonist of heroes rather actually get series where we get to see them display feats on their own.

Consistently Thanos rides on the fact also that he’s displayed above Thor, Hulk, ETC. If Thor implies he’s going to kill Thanos yet fails to do so or his attack after suggesting his intent on killing Thanos does no damage whatsoever it makes more sense to scale Thor’s best feats to that attack because we understand the narrative is to suggest Thanos is physically superior to Thor.

If Darkseid who doesn’t have many appearances given he doesn’t have his own long running title consistently is shown to overpower Superman who attempts to get in a grappling match with him but next panel is overwhelmed. Thats fair to scale off Superman’s best feats because we have consistency of Darkseid being physically above Superman.

That makes sense right?

I honestly think the Immortal Hulk thing for The Thing is blown out of proportion as well and on top of the idea that a scan from the 60s or so saying he gets stronger over time doesn’t really help his case. If he’s getting put on the ground by War Machine after grabbing him. I don’t follow The Thing but I struggle to believe that Immortal Hulk thing is some form of consistent for him. Not that I don’t think The Thing is capable of lasting in fights against high tiers given he has a consistency of doing so and the fact he’s a brick with little to no versatility so that helps him showing wise in regards to scaling more here against Ironman in a H2H fight.

Not arguing for either but I don’t think scaling on high or low ends is a good way to determine a victor.

You know you have a point. I just think with impressive non scaling feats + consistently showing he can contend with powerhouses(even winning some fights) + making things that far exceed high tier level + having an armor that was consistently impressive with little to no low-end feats(bleeding edge) + having an armor that tanked Dyson Sphere destruction(Endo-sym) + there being instances well Marvel flat out relies on scaling to show how strong Iron Man is + impressive agility, skill, and intelligence would be enough to say Iron Man would take Thing handily and could give guys like Hulk/Thor a run for their money. It doesn't help with the fact that I'm not sure if Thing will even keep the power he was said to display in this thread despite(to my knowledge) not having anything recent that says Thing is just stronger. I mean the way I see it, Thing has always had his high tier moments every once in a while with no explanation. If Iron Man does something similar with no explanation then I likely wouldn't count it but as I told the other user Iron Man usually has reasons/context behind what he does while Thing just seems to rely on pure willpower/determination. I have to use some scaling if scaling is the only thing being used on Ben's side, but from what I know Ben isn't above Hulk, Rulk, or Namor(not consistently anyway).

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Lilbroomstick

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@baph: There is no "you caught me" when the scan literally shows the Earth number. The scan has nothing to do with my actual arguement but I decided to fight irrelevant high-ends and downplays with my own irrelevant scan. Seriously though Thing gets blitzed no matter what.

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deactivated-5e80d2cfcca66

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Still Tony.

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Lilbroomstick

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#158  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@krimsonboris: LMAO I thought you were giving a real arguement but then you used a contextless Captain America scan as legitimate reason for Thing being tougher. Rogue had the Hulk's power and she was even saying Tony was wrecking most of the X-men. The funniest part is that wasn't even Tony's real bleeding edge but a remote controlled armor made to look like it. Yeah I'm done honestly you're just a troll. Matter of fact not a single scan in that row has the context.

You yourself even admitted Thing could get a BFRED by a single punch from Luke Cage. One punch from Iron Man in this thread will either leave Ben like this

No Caption Provided

Or it'll leave Ben bouncing around like Jason is here

No Caption Provided

For the record you have not been reasonable once. You have been showing fanboyism since your post here. I realize now there is no getting through to you so have fun with your little Thing hypefest.

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Lilbroomstick

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Still Tony.

At least you see reason. See I like Ben but it seems the hardcore fanboys will do anything to make sure slow bricks won't lose lol

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Battle123axe

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I haven't seen a single counter to the absolute scan-dump of scans showing that Thing is consistently above tony with literally a dozen+ separate instances showing this.

I know we can yell "high showing and low showing" all we want, but if that's the only argument in the face of a dozen+ instances proving otherwise, then i'm gonna need more than that. How many times is a low showing a low showing or a high showing a high showing before it's consistent?

Also, Ben isn't a slow brick lmao. He's consistently and casually caught supersonic projectiles out of the air, and caught Iron men several times before.

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Lilbroomstick

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#162  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@battle123axe: Pure ignorance is required to ignore every single scan of Iron Man showing superiority to Thing(by fighting against people Ben can't hold a candle to and also with direct superiority to Thing/F4). Even if Thing has showed 'consistent' superiority over Iron Man it wouldn't even apply to the newer armors from what I'm seeing, so yeah those dozens of instances would all be irrelevant. I could probably even show triple the instances of Spider-Man doing stuff more impressive than that and you know why? because these characters are decades old and there's going to be plenty of instances you can cherry pick to make Ben look good. Thing is not as strong as you try to make him out to be. Supersonic is slow to people like Spider-man and Iron Man, and tagging Iron Man in slower armors that he likely wasn't moving full speed in isn't enough to not get blitzed here.

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Battle123axe

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@battle123axe: Pure ignorance is required to ignore every single scan of Iron Man showing superiority to Thing(by fighting against people Ben can't hold a candle to and also with direct superiority to Thing/F4). Even if Thing has showed 'consistent' superiority over Iron Man it wouldn't even apply to the newer armors from what I'm seeing, so yeah those dozens of instances would all be irrelevant. I could probably even show triple the instances of Spider-Man doing stuff more impressive than that and you know why? because these characters are decades old and there's going to be plenty of instances you can cherry pick to make Ben look good. Thing is not as strong as you try to make him out to be. Supersonic is slow to people like Spider-man and Iron Man, and tagging Iron Man in slower armors that he likely wasn't moving full speed in isn't enough to not get blitzed here.

I'd assure you the bleeding edge instances have a short list, and for every instance you can cite there's either context, it isn't what it seems like, or 3 on the contrary. Newer armors get clowned by captain marvel, Iron man hasn't been a low high tier since Bleeding edge/extremis. As far as newer armors modern thing does stuff like stalemate cho hulk, tank a blast that could split the planet, and take hits from immortal hulk, all 3 of those things i don't see tony doing physically, one of those things he's abjectly failed to do in a more powerful suit. if Tony gets a boost as he upgrades his armors, so does thing as he absorbs radiation. Also every single scan that shows Tony is massively above Ben? What? I haven't seen any that haven't been countered or equaled on this thread, i've seen one, maybe two fights that might suggest superiority and everything else are things that ben has done, equaled, or surpassed, yet i've seen dozens of direct comparisons showing ben as superior, even some with tony in the same issue.

No you couldn't as far as spider man, and that doesn't even make sense because spider man is by every definition a low mid tier, that's how his power works and that's the level he's been at for the entirety of his publication, of course you can fight scattered instances of his punching out his weight class because he's the 3rd most famous character in comics. You keep complaining about them being inconsistent because i can cherry pick instances of ben being better, but fact remains that i've seen a couple of instances from tony's side that were mostly countered and over a dozen from ben that have been left alone, the evidence regardless of what you want to complain about goes against you, it does even if you don't want to use scaling and focus on modern feats. You complain about it being inconsistent yet you haven't established any consistency against ben.

Ben doesn't get blitzed when fighting people like johnny storm who try to outspeed ben and fail, johnny storm being someone with reaction feats in the microsecond range, as fast as tony.

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Lilbroomstick

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#164  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@battle123axe said:
@lilbroomstick said:

@battle123axe: Pure ignorance is required to ignore every single scan of Iron Man showing superiority to Thing(by fighting against people Ben can't hold a candle to and also with direct superiority to Thing/F4). Even if Thing has showed 'consistent' superiority over Iron Man it wouldn't even apply to the newer armors from what I'm seeing, so yeah those dozens of instances would all be irrelevant. I could probably even show triple the instances of Spider-Man doing stuff more impressive than that and you know why? because these characters are decades old and there's going to be plenty of instances you can cherry pick to make Ben look good. Thing is not as strong as you try to make him out to be. Supersonic is slow to people like Spider-man and Iron Man, and tagging Iron Man in slower armors that he likely wasn't moving full speed in isn't enough to not get blitzed here.

I'd assure you the bleeding edge instances have a short list, and for every instance you can cite there's either context, it isn't what it seems like, or 3 on the contrary. Newer armors get clowned by captain marvel, Iron man hasn't been a low high tier since Bleeding edge/extremis. As far as newer armors modern thing does stuff like stalemate cho hulk, tank a blast that could split the planet, and take hits from immortal hulk, all 3 of those things i don't see tony doing physically, one of those things he's abjectly failed to do in a more powerful suit. if Tony gets a boost as he upgrades his armors, so does thing as he absorbs radiation. Also every single scan that shows Tony is massively above Ben? What? I haven't seen any that haven't been countered or equaled on this thread, i've seen one, maybe two fights that might suggest superiority and everything else are things that ben has done, equaled, or surpassed, yet i've seen dozens of direct comparisons showing ben as superior, even some with tony in the same issue.

No you couldn't as far as spider man, and that doesn't even make sense because spider man is by every definition a low mid tier, that's how his power works and that's the level he's been at for the entirety of his publication, of course you can fight scattered instances of his punching out his weight class because he's the 3rd most famous character in comics. You keep complaining about them being inconsistent because i can cherry pick instances of ben being better, but fact remains that i've seen a couple of instances from tony's side that were mostly countered and over a dozen from ben that have been left alone, the evidence regardless of what you want to complain about goes against you, it does even if you don't want to use scaling and focus on modern feats. You complain about it being inconsistent yet you haven't established any consistency against ben.

Ben doesn't get blitzed when fighting people like johnny storm who try to outspeed ben and fail, johnny storm being someone with reaction feats in the microsecond range, as fast as tony.

See? This is how I know you only looked at the stuff for Thing because I actually showed Extremis Iron Man(an inferior version of bleeding edge) easily countering a sneak attack from the Human Torch and wrecked him. Tony has had nanosecond feats even before the extremis upgrade. Yes, the majority of the stuff cherry picked for Thing is irrelevant because Model Prime(which was used in a contextless way to make Ben look better lol) and armors older than Bleeding edge are irrelevant to Bleeding edge. The only instances that may have been countered weren't even for the Bleeding edge armor and even then they were used in the same contextless way as Model Prime(with some of the scans actually being non canon or pure PIS). I repeat again the dozens of direct comparisons mean nothing when Extremis was a far newer armor and it outperformed Thing quite easily. Nothing said here has even covered Bleeding edge yet... this is really sad attempting at downplay Tony while High-balling Thing to high-herald tier levels. I mean how many instances has Thing absorbed radiation or even had a power boost pointed out?

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Karkus

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#165  Edited By Karkus

Are people seriously using that out of context instance against Cap to try to prove anything?

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Battle123axe

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@lilbroomstick:

See? This is how I know you only looked at the stuff for Thing because I actually showed Extremis Iron Man(an inferior version of bleeding edge) easily countering a sneak attack from the Human Torch and wrecked him. Tony has had nanosecond feats even before the extremis upgrade.

I skimmed through the stuff for tony, no i didn't skim through his speed feats because he rarely fights faster than hypersonic. Tony isn't a nanosecond level character.

Yes, the majority of the stuff cherry picked for Thing is irrelevant because Model Prime(which was used in a contextless way to make Ben look better lol) and armors older than Bleeding edge are irrelevant to Bleeding edge.

Bleeding edge feats used here are few and far between, i see as many feats from other older armors used, that's a double standard.

he only instances that may have been countered weren't even for the Bleeding edge armor and even then they were used in the same contextless way as Model Prime(with some of the scans actually being non canon or pure PIS).

The scans that are non canon are explicitly noted to be so, or aren't even used that seriously. The scans used against thing are just as contextless or "PIS".

I repeat again the dozens of direct comparisons mean nothing when Extremis was a far newer armor and it outperformed Thing quite easily.

Thing's gotten far more powerful showings since then and all it did was carry away a hulkbuster that floored thing. Big whoop.

Nothing said here has even covered Bleeding edge yet... this is really sad attempting at downplay Tony while High-balling Thing to high-herald tier levels.

Thing's not close to a high herald lol, he's certainly a high tier though. It's pretty damn consistent.

I mean how many instances has Thing absorbed radiation or even had a power boost pointed out?

Quite a few. It's the basis of several of his storylines. Also, why does it matter? There's little to nothing disproving it and there are several scans showing that the jump is quite large over time.

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Battle123axe

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I mean the one way to counter "low showings for Tony and high ends for thing" is to compare their quantifiable feats without scaling...

Guess what, it's still Ben.

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Lilbroomstick

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Prove it

I mean the one way to counter "low showings for Tony and high ends for thing" is to compare their quantifiable feats without scaling...

Guess what, it's still Ben.

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Battle123axe

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#169  Edited By Battle123axe

@lilbroomstick said:

Prove it

@battle123axe said:

I mean the one way to counter "low showings for Tony and high ends for thing" is to compare their quantifiable feats without scaling...

Guess what, it's still Ben.

Thing recently has a planet splitting durability feat, a feat where he shrugs off the best heat and pressure Ego had to bring then survives his disentegration, a feat of him knocking down a living black hole, easily overpowered pressure that could crush a small mountain, thrown a tree around the planet, brought down a mountain with the shockwaves of his hits, ignored a nuclear bomb, held together a 200000 ton bridge, overpowered a machine that could push through a planet,ignored being at the center of a country sized ignition on a planet, survived the pressure of a planet on his back, casually makes weapons with hyperdense skyscrapers, took pressure hundreds of times greater than a nukes, flexed down a mountain. I think his non-scaling feats are impressive enough to compete here.

I'll note 3 feats related to a planet, one where he knocks over a black hole, and several multi mountain level+ feats.

The planetary feats straight up give him the clear win whilst Tony's durability feats cap out at 2 west coast level feats.

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Lilbroomstick

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@battle123axe:Point out one contextless and PIS moment I used. The reply I gave @hulk_like_fire was really the only one I was really basing my claim on. Anything else I showed wasn't as important and it was probably due to another user using the PIS crap and using Carol to downplay Tony.

Any fast character will always fight slower to help the plot. This is especially true with non speedsters.

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The order is from bottom to top
The order is from bottom to top

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Lilbroomstick

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@lilbroomstick said:

Prove it

@battle123axe said:

I mean the one way to counter "low showings for Tony and high ends for thing" is to compare their quantifiable feats without scaling...

Guess what, it's still Ben.

Thing recently has a planet splitting durability feat, a feat where he shrugs off the best heat and pressure Ego had to bring then survives his disentegration, a feat of him knocking down a living black hole, easily overpowered pressure that could crush a small mountain, thrown a tree around the planet, brought down a mountain with the shockwaves of his hits, ignored a nuclear bomb, held together a 200000 ton bridge, overpowered a machine that could push through a planet,ignored being at the center of a country sized ignition on a planet, survived the pressure of a planet on his back, casually makes weapons with hyperdense skyscrapers, took pressure hundreds of times greater than a nukes, flexed down a mountain. I think his non-scaling feats are impressive enough to compete here.

I'll note 3 feats related to a planet, one where he knocks over a black hole, and several multi mountain level+ feats.

The planetary feats straight up give him the clear win whilst Tony's durability feats cap out at 2 west coast level feats.

The multi mountain feats aren't anything out of Tony's pay grade and a lot of these planetary feats would require extreme struggling from Hulk/Thor to do as would knocking out immortal Hulk. Matter of fact Thor is basically a moon splitter if we go off of striking power alone so that's why it's so hard for me to take these feats without a grain of salt when the stuff about cosmic/radiation seems to be old as dirt. The last time I remember Thing get a relevant permanent power up was when he mutated with the spikes and beat up Grey Hulk.

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Battle123axe

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@battle123axe said:
@lilbroomstick said:

Prove it

@battle123axe said:

I mean the one way to counter "low showings for Tony and high ends for thing" is to compare their quantifiable feats without scaling...

Guess what, it's still Ben.

Thing recently has a planet splitting durability feat, a feat where he shrugs off the best heat and pressure Ego had to bring then survives his disentegration, a feat of him knocking down a living black hole, easily overpowered pressure that could crush a small mountain, thrown a tree around the planet, brought down a mountain with the shockwaves of his hits, ignored a nuclear bomb, held together a 200000 ton bridge, overpowered a machine that could push through a planet,ignored being at the center of a country sized ignition on a planet, survived the pressure of a planet on his back, casually makes weapons with hyperdense skyscrapers, took pressure hundreds of times greater than a nukes, flexed down a mountain. I think his non-scaling feats are impressive enough to compete here.

I'll note 3 feats related to a planet, one where he knocks over a black hole, and several multi mountain level+ feats.

The planetary feats straight up give him the clear win whilst Tony's durability feats cap out at 2 west coast level feats.

The multi mountain feats aren't anything out of Tony's pay grade and a lot of these planetary feats would require extreme struggling from Hulk/Thor to do as would knocking out immortal Hulk. Matter of fact Thor is basically a moon splitter if we go off of striking power alone so that's why it's so hard for me to take these feats without a grain of salt when the stuff about cosmic/radiation seems to be old as dirt. The last time I remember Thing get a relevant permanent power up was when he mutated with the spikes and beat up Grey Hulk.

??? Thor and hulk have been getting planetary feats forever now, Thor alone has a feat where he's breaking a planet and a nearby moon by the force of his hits, this stuff isn't out of their paygrade at all, and they have feats as good or better and sure they would struggle, but it wouldn't be all that extreme.

KO'ing immortal hulk was the single hardest punch Ben Grimm has ever thrown, shattered everything in his arm, and KO'ed hulk for minutes while Grimm was knocked out for a week. It's not as if it was a casual thing he did, and it's very much a high end not scalable to his casual punches. He did draw blood from him otherwise, but he wasn't really hurting hulk, the feat there is more of his willpower and durability.

Yeah but the amp stuff is a consistent thing, even in modern comics under hickman i beleive a future version of thing mentions to Ben that they get more powerful over time. Also it being old wouldn't make it irrelevant, it's not as if it turned off and Thing has been getting worse showings over time, his showings have been getting better too.

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Lilbroomstick

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#173  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@battle123axe: Okay, so Ben does have some impressive feats without scaling but Tony's no slouch as he easily withstood 5 nukes at less than 5% power(multi-city busting attack at 5% power)

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The order is from bottom to top tanked an explosion felt all the way in China, along with taking mountain busting hits from Mandarin/Fin Fang Foom earlier
The order is from bottom to top tanked an explosion felt all the way in China, along with taking mountain busting hits from Mandarin/Fin Fang Foom earlier
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His classic armor slams the Helicarrier down an survives the massive explosion
His classic armor slams the Helicarrier down an survives the massive explosion
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Out of order but he takes two blast capable of putting craters on the moon
Out of order but he takes two blast capable of putting craters on the moon
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Drills through the entire Earth in seconds
Drills through the entire Earth in seconds
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Scans from bottom to top, He crashes into Earth hard enough to crack the SKIN armor which is nearly as hard as adamantium
Scans from bottom to top, He crashes into Earth hard enough to crack the SKIN armor which is nearly as hard as adamantium
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Iron Man tanks his own thermonuclear blast from his satellite
Iron Man tanks his own thermonuclear blast from his satellite
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Critically damaged classic armor able to survive a mini nuke
Critically damaged classic armor able to survive a mini nuke
He can do this
He can do this
Takes Firebrand head on who was vaporizing thousands of tons of rock from miles away
Takes Firebrand head on who was vaporizing thousands of tons of rock from miles away
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Tanks Dyson Sphere Destruction if you'll count this feat
Tanks Dyson Sphere Destruction if you'll count this feat
Carries Fin Fang Foom
Carries Fin Fang Foom
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Iron Man was able to move an entire man-made island at extreme speeds using his thrusters and while holding back to not kill everyone, slammed into it hard enough to send cracks all over it
Iron Man was able to move an entire man-made island at extreme speeds using his thrusters and while holding back to not kill everyone, slammed into it hard enough to send cracks all over it
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Silver Centurion destroys a Manhanttan sized mountain thrown by terrax
Silver Centurion destroys a Manhanttan sized mountain thrown by terrax
Iron Man takes a powerful blast from the destoyer
Iron Man takes a powerful blast from the destoyer
Iron Man easily survives Odin's forge which is far hotter than the sun
Iron Man easily survives Odin's forge which is far hotter than the sun
Strong enough to prevent an adamantium robot from crushing him
Strong enough to prevent an adamantium robot from crushing him

There are more but that's what I got for right now. It seemed like you already knew about the two West Coast destroying instances. The first one was a blast from Thanos and the second was a Satellite crash that he intercepted.

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@lilbroomstick: Use spoiler blocks please, your full scan dumps are clogging the thread

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Lilbroomstick

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baph

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@baph: There is no "you caught me" when the scan literally shows the Earth number. The scan has nothing to do with my actual arguement but I decided to fight irrelevant high-ends and downplays with my own irrelevant scan. Seriously though Thing gets blitzed no matter what.

You got caught, and tried to play it out as if you were just joking, nice try.

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mossbeard

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Unquestionably Ben at this point

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ben he is a hulk and thor level power house

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Lilbroomstick

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@baph said:
@lilbroomstick said:

@baph: There is no "you caught me" when the scan literally shows the Earth number. The scan has nothing to do with my actual arguement but I decided to fight irrelevant high-ends and downplays with my own irrelevant scan. Seriously though Thing gets blitzed no matter what.

You got caught, and tried to play it out as if you were just joking, nice try.

So I tried to hide something that the scans gave the full context of already despite it not really being relevant to my point?

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Lilbroomstick

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Unquestionably Ben at this point

What makes you say that?

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baph

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@baph said:
@lilbroomstick said:

@baph: There is no "you caught me" when the scan literally shows the Earth number. The scan has nothing to do with my actual arguement but I decided to fight irrelevant high-ends and downplays with my own irrelevant scan. Seriously though Thing gets blitzed no matter what.

You got caught, and tried to play it out as if you were just joking, nice try.

So I tried to hide something that the scans gave the full context of already despite it not really being relevant to my point?

No Caption Provided

That just shows how shit you are at debating.

Nice job using a 2010 era meme template, can't debate for shit, and also cringy, good job.

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Lilbroomstick

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@baph: This is the first time I've ever seen you but by looking at the way you came for me(insults and everything) I can tell you're another massive Thing fanboy. That's all I have left to say.

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Noone1996

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This thread is a mess.

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Battle123axe

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This thread is a mess.

That it is. On both sides.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#185  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@krimsonboris: those are some good scans but did you really use rhino as a example? Someone who is not even multi building lvl Going hand to hand with iron man who is at least mountain lvl?

also if thor can’t get through doom shield then its pis respectfully. Thing does not hit harder than Thor . ( pis for doom to block thirst attacks I mean)

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TakenStew22

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#186 TakenStew22  Online

I missed baph.

I think Ben wins this in a hell of a fight. Iron Man is definitely more versatile but after seeing more of Thing's feats I think his physicals will eventually outdo Tony's firepower.

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blackspidey2099

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Darth_Nimrod

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#188 Darth_Nimrod  Online
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Dmnb2wavy

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#190  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

@krimsonboris: I like Rhino, okay? He used to go toe to toe with Hulk back in the day, and he still gets decent feats when he isn't jobbing (which is very rare, but still).

you can like rhino but him fighting with iron man isn’t consistent in the slightest.

This is what should happen what iron man fights rhino

No Caption Provided

the days of rhino fighting against characters like hulk is past us And if it happens currently it’s just isn’t consistent.

for a better way to look at this where do you rank rhino?

can he destroy building with a single punch? Multiple buildings in a single punch? Can he destroy a city block? He can he bust a mountain?

if your struggling to think rhino can do the first two then you should not scale Him to characters like iron man.

Why? A lot of people tanked getting hammered by Thor, even while he was bloodlusted, amped, sneak attacked them or it was a combination of these things.

from what I’ve seen of thing he lacks any actual feats to scale to Thor. Thor has punched people through a planet and his strongest blows almost destroyed a moon in the far distance. Unless you think thing has that type of striking power than your point is null. Also may I ask who has tanked Thor blows that was amped or bloodlusted? I only know high tiers has done that. also For a sneak attack Thor would still be holding back.

He hits hard enough for their attacks to be comparable. For example, just recently, under the same writer the same character had identical reactions after getting hit by Ben's fist and Beta Ray Bill's Stormbreaker:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Fantastic Four: Prodigal Son; Guardians of The Galaxy: Prodigal Sun

Ben also drew blood from the same guy with a punch too.

see this is a problem again. Ray from what I’ve seen on vine is considered a planet buster. is thing now a planet buster because of this scaling?

I’m sure I can post Spider-Man barely hurting a street tier character but a weaker character doing much more damage.

overall

let me ask where do you rank thing?

country buster? Moon lvl? Planet buster?

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TakenStew22

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#191 TakenStew22  Online
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Thor_Parker82

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I find the comparisons that try to make Thing above Doctor Doom are really off, I've read pretty much every main F4 comic book from 2002-2012 which goes from Vol. 3 #60-70 + #500-611 and Doctor Doom was consistently portrayed as being more powerful than Ben, in fact, most of the time he showed being above the entire team except for Susan.

We have Doom after sacrificing her loved ones to some demons for magic knowledge come back and stomp the entire team, we have him once again beating the team before they send him to hell, then once he returned from hell he tried to get Mjolnir and Thing got in his way, once more Doom beat him, then we have Victor posing as the Marquis' apprentice taking on Ben and defeating him yet again, and even recently on Zdarsky's Two in One Doom wrecked Ben twice (granted Ben's powers were diminishing IIRC) and finally on International Iron Man where Doom also wrecked Grimm like three times.

Bottom line, Doom is more powerful than Ben, and the scaling trying to make Ben look superior to Iron Man by making it seem as if Ben is also above Doom is not right. Yes, Thing beats Iron Man H2H, but the approach in arguments by some is wrong.

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Lilbroomstick

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#193  Edited By Lilbroomstick

Can anyone give me a valid non biased sounding explanation on why Ben would stomp here?

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#194 TakenStew22  Online

Can anyone give me a valid non biased sounding explanation on why Ben would stomp here?

He just has overall better physicals.

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Stormdriven

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#195 Stormdriven  Online

Tony needs his firepower and tech here. He can’t beat Ben in a knock down, drag out type fight.

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baph

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@baph: This is the first time I've ever seen you but by looking at the way you came for me(insults and everything) I can tell you're another massive Thing fanboy.

> Laughs at a shit debater that is using alternate reality scans for a 616 character

> Muh thing fan

Amazing logic.

That's all I have left to say.

Yeah that's right, run away.

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Lilbroomstick

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@takenstew22: I get that but it seems with scaling/non scaling feats Tony is strong and skilled enough to hang in for a little while along with superior speed, and some stat changing tricks up his sleeve.

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#198 TakenStew22  Online

@lilbroomstick: Yes he is very strong but he wasn't meant to be a brick like Thing.

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blackspidey2099

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#199  Edited By blackspidey2099

I still think Tony with the Bleeding Edge or Extremis armors can take this battle.