Bleeding Edge Iron Man vs The Thing (H2H)

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Lilbroomstick

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#101  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@krimsonboris said:

Ben still stomps and always stomped. Lol at brainlets (looking at you, @lilbroomstick and @necrogod) claiming otherwise. Educate yourselfs, simpletons.

Thing wrecks. Iron Man has consistently sucked against Ben, looked pale in comparison to Ben against shared opponents and is just plain overrated on this site. Case in point...

Iron Man literally knocks himself out when he accidently collided with Ben. And Ben was still conscious afterwards.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Marvel Feature #12

Bloodlusted mindcontrolled Iron Man can barely hurt Ben and gets restrained casually (and before you claim that he was still out from Hawkeye's arrow, we already see him squirming and trying to break free in 4th panel):

Avengers West Coast #75
Avengers West Coast #75

Bloodlusted Super-Adaptoid uses Iron Man's repulsors on Ben, and Ben casually tanks them:

Marvel Two-In-One #75
Marvel Two-In-One #75

In the same issue Ben knocks out Super-Adaptoid with combined powers of himself, Vision, Mar-Vell and Iron Man:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Tony in experimental armor that was going berserk can barely hurt Ben, has his punch no sold and is casually restrained:

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Fantastic Four vol.3 #15

A Skrull who stole Iron Man's armor and was intent on murdering everyone can't even scratch Ben with double repulsors:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Iron Man vol.2 #12

Berserker Subterranian Armor can't even hurt Ben with a hit:

Iron Man vol.4 #12
Iron Man vol.4 #12

Stomped off-panel by Ben who was holding back :

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Fantastic Four vol.3 #27

Iron Man stomped by War Machine:

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Punsiher #228

Same War Machine who could barely do anything to Ben a couple of issues before:

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Punisher #226

And that's not mentioning how Iron Man on multiple occasions performed worse against same opponents than Ben did.

Like the multiple times he couldn't do shit to Wonder Man, even admitting to be inferior to him:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
Avengers #132, West Coast Avengers #10, Marvel Comics Presents #41

And got stomped by him twice (by having Wonder Man destroy his armor and two-shot him respectively):

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Marvel Comics Presents #41, Marvel Comics Presents #43

Same goes for other Iron Man armors, like when Simon off-paneled Iron Patriot, no sold everything War Machine threw at him and was destroying multiple IM armors at once while no selling their shots:

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Dark Reign: Lethal Legion #2, War Machine #8, Mighty Avengers #5

And even in his absolute best showing against Wonder Man, Iron Man has said that he "can't take much more of this" after getting hit by Simon a total of 3 times:

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Wonder Man #2

All while Ben has... one-shot Wonder Man while holding back (Avengers West Coast #75, posted above), off-paneled ionic Wonder Man while holding back (Fantastic Four vol.3 #27, posted above), has beaten a mind-controlled bloodlusted Wonder Man while, once again, holding back (and tanking every shot):

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Thing #5

Tanked every hit from bloodlusted mind-controlled Wonder Man on other occasion and fought him back while, once again, holding back and trying not to hurt him, and Wonder Man still complained that he felt like he was "playing catch with a cruise missle" and needed aspirin afterwards:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6
Marvel Two-In-One #78

And of course, tanked a hit from Wonder Man who was at the peak of his strength and was not thinking clear, and was only annoyed somewhat:

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Wonder Man #15

Or that time when Iron Man couldn't scratch Rhino, admitted Rhino could take his punishment for a whole day, needed to use all of his strength just to hold him in one place and still only beat him by suffocating him:

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Iron Man vol.1 #238

The same Rhino whose whole body was aching just from one blow from Ben and who got casually overpowered by him in two panels:

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Thing #24

And same Rhino who was beaten by Ben in 5 minutes:

Amazing Spider-Man #700.3
Amazing Spider-Man #700.3

Or that time when Iron Man was stomped by Grey Hulk (2 times in fact - casually overpowered and one-shot):

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The Order #3, Hulk Smash Avengers #4

The same Grey Hulk who Ben wrecked in their first fight. And the same Grey Hulk who could only win by tiring out an already exhausted Ben, using trickery to constantly sucker-punch him for an hour and half and almost drowning him (Fantastic Four #320 - Incredible Hulk #350). And the same Grey Hulk who, while bloodlusted, couldn't do shit to She-Thing:

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Spider-Man/Fantastic Four #3

Who in turn just has a weaker version of Ben's powerset, has admitted that she's "nowhere near as strong as Thing" and got stomped by depowered Ben (who was wearing a suit that restored 90% of his strength) in a couple of hits:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #333, Fantastic Four vol.1 Annual #22

Or that time when Iron Man couldn't KO Bi-Beast and needed Thor to finish the job for him:

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Thor #316

All while Ben... could.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Thing vol.2 #8

Or that time when Iron Man got stomped by Trapster glue, had his armor damaged and needed help to rid himself of it:

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Iron Man Annual #12

While Ben had the superior version of said glue literally poured down his throat and all over his body and just flexed it off:

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Hulk #19

Or that time when Iron Man couldn't even scratch Doom's forcefield:

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Invincible Iron Man #2

Even with help from Wonder Man and Magneto:

Avengers The Children's Crusade #5
Avengers The Children's Crusade #5

And again, can't get through shields of Doom's outdated armor:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Iron Man Fatal Frontier #10

and again...

Avengers #156
Avengers #156

and again...

Super-Villain Team-Up #9
Super-Villain Team-Up #9

and again, with continuous repulsor barrage...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
The Mighty Avengers #9

while Ben could stun Doom through his shields back in classic times:

FF vol.1 #157
FF vol.1 #157

And shattered them with two punches in modern times:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Infamous Iron Man #2-3

And of course, Iron Man can't overpower Doom and has his strongest blast pretty much no sold:

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Iron Man vol.1 #149

Can't overpower Doom, even with repulsors firing from close range:

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The Mighty Avengers #9

That's what happened right after, if you're curious.

Tanks getting slammed into wall with no damage and one-shots Iron Man with a blast:

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Super-Villain Team-Up #9 - Avengers #155

No sells a hit from Iron Man:

Iron Man vol.2 #11
Iron Man vol.2 #11

4 hits from Doom's outtdated armor and Iron Man "can't take much more of this":

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Iron Man Fatal Frontier #10

No sells double repulsors (but is KOed by cause unrelated to Iron Man):

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Marvel Fanfare #44

My favourite one: IM can't do shit to Doom even when assisted by Thor, Giant-Man and Captain America:

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All-New All-Different Avengers #15

Iron Man's golden armor can't damage a Doombot armor:

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Iron Man the Armor Wars #2

Doombot stalemates Iron Man in a beam clash (reminder that Doombots are identical to Doom's regular armor, but weild only a fraction of original's power):

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Iron Man Legacy #5

While Ben... oh boy. Tanks everything Doom throws at him, trashes his armor and breaks his arms:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #40

One-shots Doom:

Fantastic Four The World's Greatest Comic Magazine #12
Fantastic Four The World's Greatest Comic Magazine #12

No sells Doom's blast, overpowers him completely and was about to kill him... if not for outside intervention:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #350

No sells Doom's blast completely:

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Iron Man vol.2 #11

Tanks repeated blasts from Doom while not at his best:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #361

Restrains Reed while the latter is wearing Doom's armor:

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Fantastic Four vol.3 #31

Reed wearing Doom's armor doubts his forcefields and armor can withstand an assault of being with strength equal to Ben's:

Fantastic Four vol.3 #29
Fantastic Four vol.3 #29

Ben tanks a blast from Hunger; in the same issue Hunger completely destroys Doom's armor with a single blast (and Doom was amped at the moment too):

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Fantastic Four vol. 1 #381

Snaps amped Doom's neck with a single hit:

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Fantastic Four vol.3 #70

No sells blasts from dozens of alternate Dooms:

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Fantastic Four vol.4 #9

Overpowers Doom with Silver Surfer's powers:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Fantastic Four vol.1 #60

Ben absolutely demolishes Dr. Doom who came from 75 years in the future, who had decades of prep and, in his future, faced Fantastic Four more powerful than the present one:

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Fantastic Four vol.1 #551-553

While he does get trashed in return afterwards, it was still a Doom more powerful than 616 one and who had decades worth of prep... and yet he was wrecked in a one-sided beatdown and needed 3 pages for his armor to get repaired to fight back, something he only managed to do because Ben was busy monologuing (pretty weird for a hero to make a classic villain mistake, but oh well).

And finally, a gallery of Ben one-shotting Doombots:

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FF #350, FF Annual #20, FF #156, Marvel Super Hero Island Adventures, FF #5, FF #246, FF vol.3 #31, FF #536/537, Fantastic Four Special

The scan from FF #246 is also relevant because that Doombot was more powerful than the real Doom, yet Ben still one-shot him when he stopped holding back:

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Or that time when Iron Man in Hulkbuster Armor couldn't even extract a grunt from Professor Hulk and at best could knock him off his feet. All while Hulk was barely fighting back:

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Iron Man #305

While Ben was ragdolling him, made him scream in pain and dislodged his molar, as well as tanked his hits when Prof. was actually fighting back:

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Fantastic Four Unlimited#4

Or that time when Iron Man had his armor damaged by one hit from Wrecker (who was at the time sharing his power with the rest of Wrecking Crew):

Secret Wars #8
Secret Wars #8

His armor got wrecked even worse when he faced full power Wrecker, and he couldn't do anything to Wrecker with either physicals or repulsors and only won by charging his crowbar with magnetic force:

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Iron Man #251

And on another occasion couldn't beat Wrecker who was sharing his powers with WC with repulsors or physicals, got his arm damaged by a single crowbar toss and only managed to KO him with Namor's help:

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Marvel Team-Up vol.2 #11

While Ben managed to tank a massive beatdown from Wrecker who had the full power of Wrecking Crew, overpowered him and knocked him out cold:

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FF vol.1 #355

Humiliates Wrecker who may or may not have had the full power of WC after tanking hits from him with no damage:

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Startling Stories: The Thing

As for Wrecker who is sharing his power with WC? Ben almost killed him once without any effort and one-shot on another occasion:

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Sentry: Fallen Sun, The Thing: Freakshow #1

Or that time when Ronan no sold everything Iron Man threw at him, to the point he resorted to self-destruction:

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Iron Man vol.1 #279

Same Ronan who was hurt and screaming in pain after hits from casual Ben:

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Annihilators Earthfall #2

Skimmed through it basically but it's like I said lol this thread is using Ben's highest end(some just flat out outliers) feats against Iron Man's lower showings. Iron Man has generally been more impressive and it's actually logical considering he always gets stronger while Ben is arguably not better than Iron Man's classic armors. The subterranean argonaut feat was pointless to show since he all it did was spin Thing. Matter of fact it was a better showing for Iron Man than anything. Don't bring up the thrusters because that's what Iron Man does and the OP never said Tony couldn't use his thrusters to propel himself. Thing wouldn't even be half as impressive without his outliers + Grey Hulk's outliers. Iron Man>>>>Namor>>>Fantastic four(except maybe Sue) lol It's pretty sad how you have to use Classic Iron Man when the thread is using a way stronger armor and heroes reborn isn't even canon...

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Ben >>> Amped Immortal Hulk >> Immortal Hulk >> Ironman

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Ben >>> Amped Immortal Hulk >> Immortal Hulk >> Ironman

Best arguement for Thing so far

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#106  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@krimsonboris said:

@lilbroomstick: oh yeah, speaking of subterranian armor.

Iron Man didn't do shit there that would place him above Ben physically. I'm guessing you read this off Noone's trainwreck of a thread and didn't think about what was happening himself for a second. So I'll just quote myself from a different thread.

Lemme guess, these scans?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Because apart from the fact that Ben didn't have leverage (or jet boosters) and didn't know to target legs because they were the weak part, Iron Man didn't really "outperform" Ben in anything here.

Lol at me using high ends and outliers. Says the guy who wanks Iron Man drawing a droplet of blood from Sentry and thinks that Tony using a prepped device against Wonder Man is a legit win. Iron Man has never been anywhere near close to being as impressive as Ben is. And lol at this scaling chain. The only reason why Iron Man ever won against Namor was because he was exploiting his heat weakness. Stat-wise Namor is head and shoulders above. And Namor has been shown inferior to Ben so many times it's not funny.

Your wank is pretty amusing tho. Keep dickriding a guy who got stomped by Carol Danvers on 3 separate occasions.

Oh boy, Ben's PP taste really good doesn't it? So many things to dismantle, where should I even start? First of all Namor has been superior to Ben until he started getting portrayed weaker and even now I wouldn't say Ben is stronger. I already showed Iron Man making the fantastic four look like the joke and because you were so busy wanking every last drop out of Ben you missed the most important part of the Wonder Man scan. 1. YES A prepped device still counts as a legitimate win 2. I pointed out that Iron Man was fast and strong enough to easily stop an angry punch from Simon. The Bleeding edge armor is lightyears ahead of Ben honestly and there's so much stuff that I could use to show how wrong you are but I don't feel like getting into it right now. You're jealous that your boyfriend doesn't have thrusters like Tony? Well, that's too bad because the thrusters aren't going anywhere and they're a lot more impressive than Ben.

Iron Man clearly losing to Carol while totally not being distracted
Iron Man clearly losing to Carol while totally not being distracted
Thing clearly beating up Luke Cage
Thing clearly beating up Luke Cage

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As someone who’s neutral on this, the people defending The Thing are winning.

What about now?

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What kind of a nonsense is this??? Throwing around all of Ironman's low-showings while bringing up Ben's high end and outlier feats?? How hypocritical can people be lol

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#113  Edited By Necrogod

Logic redefined people, Logic redefined !!!

Bring up all the low showings of the character you think would lose - Bring up all the high end outliers of the character you favor - and throw some insults around and BOOM you win !!

It seems official and so legit that : The Thing>>>Immortal Hulk>>>Thor Odinson>>>Ironman

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I kind of disappointed by the Ben hype on this thread. @thor_parker82 who do you think wins?

If this was a regular battle, Bleeding Edge Iron Man would win, but pure H2H I gotta give it to Ben, he'll have to work hard for it though.

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@thor_parker82: Why do you think Ben wins?? Doesn't Ironman possess the combat speed advantage??

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@lilbroomstick said:

I kind of disappointed by the Ben hype on this thread. @thor_parker82 who do you think wins?

If this was a regular battle, Bleeding Edge Iron Man would win, but pure H2H I gotta give it to Ben, he'll have to work hard for it though.

Is Ben really good enough to overcome Iron Man's greater speed, skill, agility, and at least equal durability and strength? With Regeneration on top of that?

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@necrogod said:

@thor_parker82: Why do you think Ben wins?? Doesn't Ironman possess the combat speed advantage??

Definitely, Iron Man is faster than Ben, especially in this armor, but Grimm's physicals are better than Iron Man's and that would ultimately give him the win

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#118  Edited By Thor_Parker82

@lilbroomstick: Which New Avengers issue was the instance of Luke Cage beating up Thing ?

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@lilbroomstick said:

Oh boy, Ben's PP taste really good doesn't it?

Why don't you ask Iron Man? After all, he sucked Ben's dick every time they fought.

So many things to dismantle, where should I even start? First of all Namor has been superior to Ben until he started getting portrayed weaker

Yeah right. So superior that he got overpowered by Ben while in water back in 1962, when Beb was much weaker than he is now.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

and even now I wouldn't say Ben is stronger.

Because you are not very smart.

I already showed Iron Man making the fantastic four look like the joke

Except it wasn't Iron Man but a copy that had more energy than Iron Man did, and all it did was knock them around without KOing anyone.

And you've yet to adress the fact that Iron Man has already lost to Thing on 5 separate occassions.

and because you were so busy wanking every last drop out of Ben

Irony.

you missed the most important part of the Wonder Man scan. 1. YES A prepped device still counts as a legitimate win

No it does not. Especially considering the device was built by Beast and not him.

2. I pointed out that Iron Man was fast and strong enough to easily stop an angry punch from Simon.

He wasn't, he dodged the hit and grabbed his hand fpr leverage.

The Bleeding edge armor is lightyears ahead of Ben honestly

Based on nothing except your wank.

and there's so much stuff that I could use to show how wrong you are but I don't feel like getting into it right now.

Oh yeah, I'm real scared. You've already failed to adress a single scan of Iron Man getting beaten by Ben or getting outperformed by him on like 20+ occasions, and all you did so far was wank Iron Man and lowball Thing like your life depends on it.

ou're jealous that your boyfriend doesn't have thrusters like Tony?

And the award for "gayest thing ever said on Comic Vine" goes too...

Well, that's too bad because the thrusters aren't going anywhere and they're a lot more impressive than Ben.

More impressive than Ben's farts, maybe. Defiinitely not more impressive than anything else.

Iron Man clearly losing to Carol while totally not being distracted

More like "Iron Man using a trick to beat Carol because he couldn't beat her otherwise". A trick that worked only once and got countered in the same series. And then, without that trick to save his ass, Danvers put Stark into a coma.

Thing clearly beating up Luke Cage

Awesome scan of Cage sucker punching and BFRing Thing without knocking him out or even hurting him.

No as awesome as this scan of Spider-Man tearing Iron Man apart, however:

No Caption Provided

Keep crying.

Yeah Spider-lord is awesome and would like a word with Thing-

Spider-Man pulverizing an amped Thing
Spider-Man pulverizing an amped Thing

Oops he's already dead. I mean seriously though how does Thing hold a candle to Iron Man when a weaker armor could do this

Iron Man vs. Thor

No Caption Provided
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Extremis Iron Man taking several hits from an angry Odinforce Thor(who can hit hard enough to break his own hammer) is impressive, especially when you compare to Rulk held up in his fight with what was probably a less powerful and probably less angry Thor. Not counting the Loebforce encounter Rulk had with Odinforce Thor...
Extremis Iron Man taking several hits from an angry Odinforce Thor(who can hit hard enough to break his own hammer) is impressive, especially when you compare to Rulk held up in his fight with what was probably a less powerful and probably less angry Thor. Not counting the Loebforce encounter Rulk had with Odinforce Thor...

Now let's see how many hits it takes a weaker less angry Thor to beat a stronger Thing

No Caption Provided

Dang, completely wrecked Ben. Face it Thing is far below Iron Man and even Rulk/Namor as they're higher mid tiers while Thing isn't all that special. He might as well being an anime character since he relies on determination to win all of his fights lol

And Iron Man did get his payback on Carol don't worry

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#122  Edited By EcstaticGrace

@krimsonboris said:
@lilbroomstick said:

Oh boy, Ben's PP taste really good doesn't it?

Why don't you ask Iron Man? After all, he sucked Ben's dick every time they fought.

So many things to dismantle, where should I even start? First of all Namor has been superior to Ben until he started getting portrayed weaker

Yeah right. So superior that he got overpowered by Ben while in water back in 1962, when Beb was much weaker than he is now.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

and even now I wouldn't say Ben is stronger.

Because you are not very smart.

I already showed Iron Man making the fantastic four look like the joke

Except it wasn't Iron Man but a copy that had more energy than Iron Man did, and all it did was knock them around without KOing anyone.

And you've yet to adress the fact that Iron Man has already lost to Thing on 5 separate occassions.

and because you were so busy wanking every last drop out of Ben

Irony.

you missed the most important part of the Wonder Man scan. 1. YES A prepped device still counts as a legitimate win

No it does not. Especially considering the device was built by Beast and not him.

2. I pointed out that Iron Man was fast and strong enough to easily stop an angry punch from Simon.

He wasn't, he dodged the hit and grabbed his hand fpr leverage.

The Bleeding edge armor is lightyears ahead of Ben honestly

Based on nothing except your wank.

and there's so much stuff that I could use to show how wrong you are but I don't feel like getting into it right now.

Oh yeah, I'm real scared. You've already failed to adress a single scan of Iron Man getting beaten by Ben or getting outperformed by him on like 20+ occasions, and all you did so far was wank Iron Man and lowball Thing like your life depends on it.

ou're jealous that your boyfriend doesn't have thrusters like Tony?

And the award for "gayest thing ever said on Comic Vine" goes too...

Well, that's too bad because the thrusters aren't going anywhere and they're a lot more impressive than Ben.

More impressive than Ben's farts, maybe. Defiinitely not more impressive than anything else.

Iron Man clearly losing to Carol while totally not being distracted

More like "Iron Man using a trick to beat Carol because he couldn't beat her otherwise". A trick that worked only once and got countered in the same series. And then, without that trick to save his ass, Danvers put Stark into a coma.

Thing clearly beating up Luke Cage

Awesome scan of Cage sucker punching and BFRing Thing without knocking him out or even hurting him.

No as awesome as this scan of Spider-Man tearing Iron Man apart, however:

No Caption Provided

Keep crying.

Yeah Spider-lord is awesome and would like a word with Thing-

Spider-Man pulverizing an amped Thing
Spider-Man pulverizing an amped Thing

Oops he's already dead. I mean seriously though how does Thing hold a candle to Iron Man when a weaker armor could do this

Iron Man vs. Thor

No Caption Provided
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Extremis Iron Man taking several hits from an angry Odinforce Thor(who can hit hard enough to break his own hammer) is impressive, especially when you compare to Rulk held up in his fight with what was probably a less powerful and probably less angry Thor. Not counting the Loebforce encounter Rulk had with Odinforce Thor...
Extremis Iron Man taking several hits from an angry Odinforce Thor(who can hit hard enough to break his own hammer) is impressive, especially when you compare to Rulk held up in his fight with what was probably a less powerful and probably less angry Thor. Not counting the Loebforce encounter Rulk had with Odinforce Thor...

Now let's see how many hits it takes a weaker less angry Thor to beat a stronger Thing

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Dang, completely wrecked Ben. Face it Thing is far below Iron Man and even Rulk/Namor as they're higher mid tiers while Thing isn't all that special. He might as well being an anime character since he relies on determination to win all of his fights lol

And Iron Man did get his payback on Carol don't worry

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You’re using an alternate reality battle that’s not cannon and where the scans suggest she wasn’t fighting anymore and the fact Ironman has to prep to make a device that no longer can harm Carol to suggest he beat her? When in cannon without prep he lost or was on the losing end about 3 instances

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#123  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@ecstaticgrace: Hey, revenge is revenge. Relax that was joke and obviously it was an alternate reality. Most Hulkbusters are trash anyway so I'm not even surprised Tony lost(although I'm pretty sure it was mentioned Tony believed in Carol and didn't think she'd go that far but she does the ideal hero thing right? Yeah right...). This is Iron Man vs Thing so stop bringing up Tony losing to Carol as a downplaying tactic to help Ben or else I'll have bring up instances of other people losing to Carol(I'm not too fond of those either) lol Not to mention prep is kind of Tony's thing since he's a genius so it's about as valid as anything and he's prepped for bigger threats than Carol. Conveniently around the time Iron Man was sort of being written as a jobber and almost weaker than ever, Ms Marvel(I was actually fond of this Carol. I don't know how to feel about the current one though) has been getting stronger than ever because Marvel decided they wanted their own Wonder Woman. Still though Iron Man has gone toe to toe with Silver Surfer, Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Hyperion, Ulik, Quicksilver, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Hercules, Rulk, and Taurus which all usually ended up with him winning, borderline stomping, stalemating, or holding his own. I guess they're no match for the great Captain Marvel either right?

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#124  Edited By EcstaticGrace

@lilbroomstick said:

@ecstaticgrace: Hey, revenge is revenge. Relax that was joke and obviously it was an alternate reality. Most Hulkbusters are trash anyway so I'm not even surprised Tony lost(although I'm pretty sure it was mentioned Tony believed in Carol and didn't think she'd go that far but she does the ideal hero thing right? Yeah right...). This is Iron Man vs Thing so stop bringing up Tony losing to Carol as a downplaying tactic to help Ben or else I'll have bring up instances of other people losing to Carol(I'm not too fond of those either) lol Not to mention prep is kind of Tony's thing since he's a genius so it's about as valid as anything and he's prepped for bigger threats than Carol. Conveniently around the time Iron Man was sort of being written as a jobber and almost weaker than ever, Ms Marvel(I was actually fond of this Carol. I don't know how to feel about the current one though) has been getting stronger than ever because Marvel decided they wanted there own Wonder Woman. Still though Iron Man has gone toe to toe with Silver Surfer, Thor, Hulk, Sentry, Hyperion, Ulik, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Hercules, Rulk and Taurus which all usually ended up with him winning, borderline stomping, stalemating, or holding his own. I guess they're no match for the great Captain Marvel either right?

You’re aware Tony did initiate the fight though? Right. He attacked her in a public street what she did was self defense. She got carried away I’ll admit which should be bad writing for someone who served in the military to get stressed to the point they accidentally kill someone but it happened.

Revenge isn’t revenge when you didn’t get it in your own universe though lol..

A lot of your mentions are irrelevant given without prep Ironman has a consistent track record of losing against Capt. Marvel but that doesn’t matter right?

We‘s also have to pretend Ironman hasn’t struggled with way weaker characters or has the same feats non scaling that Thor has to build some false comparison to him or any high tier of that level... Without plot devices or prep weapons. That aren’t standard gear for the character.

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#125  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@ecstaticgrace said:

You’re aware Tony did initiate the fight though? Right. He attacked her in a public street what she did was self defense. She got carried away I’ll admit which should be bad writing for someone who served in the military to get stressed to the point they accidentally kill someone but it happened.

A lot of your mentions are irrelevant given without prep Ironman has a consistent track record of losing against Capt. Marvel but that doesn’t matter right?

Tony was trying to save Miles Morales from Carol's drastic decisions but this isn't the thread for this.

It's funny you bring up irrelevance when the armors being mentioned came after Bleeding edge. He would've never lost before then though. Admittedly I'm one of those people who accepts Captain Marvel as a high tier now so I don't think it's bad for him to lose. It's just a bit annoying for people to try to erase all his other feats just because say the jobbing model Prime(which actually had some good showings when it wasn't jobbing) lost to her. I could make direct comparisons between Iron Man, Hulk, She Hulk, and Carol to show she's not as strong as one may think but my quarrel is with Ben beating Tony, not Carol who shouldn't have even been mentioned in the first place.

We‘s also have to pretend Ironman hasn’t struggled with way weaker characters or has the same feats non scaling that Thor has to build some false comparison to him or any high tier of that level... Without plot devices or prep weapons. That aren’t standard gear for the character.

Yes, but no at the same time. If it's consistent enough than you could say it's in-character for them to struggle. Pretend the same way that I pretend that Thor and especially Hulk don't struggle with weaker people all the time. Iron Man was never intended to be that much weaker than them by Stan Lee and it all makes sense. Iron Man never easily got destroyed by either of them in his classic armors(even the old golden avenger armor drilled through the planet and could rock Hulk pretty hard) and with every little subtle upgrade you could see he was performing better against them. You could see how he was surpassing the likes of Thing and Namor(who's arguably a low high tier himself). We see that Iron Patriot and the weaker dari avengers could hurt Thor greatly some years later. We see that extremis could take some hits from Odinforce Thor(kind of like how Iron Man has taken bloodlusted hits from Thor/Hulk in his weaker armors, west coast destroying blast, and multi-mountain destroying explosions felt on the other side of the world in the past). We finally got to the point where Iron Man(bleeding edge) could fight evenly with Thor and Hulk(I still think he could beat Hulk easily by blitzing him into space). Model 42 and the specialized armors that came after weren't as good but we do see a decent overall speed increase. Endo-sym was legitimate high tier level and Model Prime is at least better than Extremis when it isn't jobbing. Sure you could bring up inconsistency's like Iron Man getting easily destroyed by Hulk but we all know that isn't really the case for those two. I could bring up even more situations of Hulk/Thor struggling with the likes if Spider-man. We all know they're above Spider-Man and Iron Man is also above spiderman(Marvel knows too...for the most part). I haven't even included the fact that Iron Man has built stuff to hold his own against King Thor and Celestials without getting amped by some outside force. Stuff that can drain Sentry's power and destroy planets at 2% power. Just saying Iron Man has worked his way up.

Honestly, though it's funny you said that because we could all stop pretending that Carol hasn't been that strong and has been portrayed as weaker than Iron Man for years.

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Iron Man wins high diff.

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Hulk_Like_Fire

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I'm thinking Thing. He goes up against the Hulk. I'm leaning towards Thing 6/10.

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#128  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@hulk_like_fire said:

I'm thinking Thing. He goes up against the Hulk. I'm leaning towards Thing 6/10.

To be fair Thing isn't really a threat to Hulk outside of every once in a while where Ben can punch outside of his class because's he's Ben. Bleeding edge has seemed to have just about no low showings so I'd say it's a consistent armor.

Iron Man vs. Hulk

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He makes Hulk bleed with one hit and protects everyone from the explosion
He makes Hulk bleed with one hit and protects everyone from the explosion

Getting multiple good hits in>>>>>>grabbing someone's head and doing nothing

Iron Man vs Red Hulk

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Stomped and speedblitzed Red Hulk so hard that he couldn't fight back. The last scan is to show Red Hulk was hurt as he couldn't get up immediately and he was angry proving that he wanted to fight back but was too slow. Keep in mind that Tony only wanted to rough him up a bit
Stomped and speedblitzed Red Hulk so hard that he couldn't fight back. The last scan is to show Red Hulk was hurt as he couldn't get up immediately and he was angry proving that he wanted to fight back but was too slow. Keep in mind that Tony only wanted to rough him up a bit

I guess Rulk isn't so tough without the Loebforce...

Iron Man vs Worthy Grey Gargoyle

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He has a long and grueling fight with Worthy Grey Gargoyle. The scans are a bit out of order but I didn't post the end which had Iron Man leaving while Worthy Grey Gargoyle was distracted by its injured head. Worthy Grey Gargoyle is at least as strong as Thor.
He has a long and grueling fight with Worthy Grey Gargoyle. The scans are a bit out of order but I didn't post the end which had Iron Man leaving while Worthy Grey Gargoyle was distracted by its injured head. Worthy Grey Gargoyle is at least as strong as Thor.

Iron Man vs Taurus

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Iron Man is able to hurt an amped Taurus who could 2 shot Thor and grab him faster than he could react. Iron Man also got 2 shotted but he lasted longer than Thor and Hawkeye's wasn't as helpful since it hit Iron Man along with Taurus. Thor was 3 shotted if you count the grab but Iron Man is 3 shotted too.
Iron Man is able to hurt an amped Taurus who could 2 shot Thor and grab him faster than he could react. Iron Man also got 2 shotted but he lasted longer than Thor and Hawkeye's wasn't as helpful since it hit Iron Man along with Taurus. Thor was 3 shotted if you count the grab but Iron Man is 3 shotted too.

Yikes things are looking Grim for Ben here...

Iron Man vs Hercules

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Iron Man takes Hercules along with Ice Man and Black Widow to make sure Typhon doesn't kill Beast. Iron Man doesn't win but Hercules also is out so it was a draw.
Iron Man takes Hercules along with Ice Man and Black Widow to make sure Typhon doesn't kill Beast. Iron Man doesn't win but Hercules also is out so it was a draw.

Iron Man was in an older weaker armor too.

And for good measure

Iron Man No-sells punches from Ulik
Iron Man No-sells punches from Ulik
Ulik can do this to Thor
Ulik can do this to Thor

To emphasize that Iron Man blitzes let's take a look at his fights with Mallen and Spider-man.

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Spider-Man fight
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Mallen fight out of order

Iron Man can also completely regenerate his armor if it gets destroyed, disable his safety protocols to greatly increase his striking power, and absorb electromagnetic fields in the atmosphere to increase his strength and durability.

Thing will literally be frozen from Tony's perspective
Thing will literally be frozen from Tony's perspective

A faster member of the fantastic four had tried to hit Iron Man with a sneak attack and he failed...

Iron Man Vs. She-Hulk

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Oneshots a greatly enraged She-Hulk using momentum. An angry She-Hulk has previously shown she can go toe to toe with Savage Hulk for a little while and this one seems to be angrier than that one to the point of even deforming a bit. Note that this is before the amp that current She-Hulk has but it's still very impressive.
Oneshots a greatly enraged She-Hulk using momentum. An angry She-Hulk has previously shown she can go toe to toe with Savage Hulk for a little while and this one seems to be angrier than that one to the point of even deforming a bit. Note that this is before the amp that current She-Hulk has but it's still very impressive.

He did this with an armor weaker than bleeding edge. Iron Man has gave Cap trouble without his armor on. Thing gets wrecked in a fight like this and godstomped in a real fight

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That's better. Iron Man has been able to physically go toe to toe with people stronger than Thing since his classic armor days.

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#131  Edited By EcstaticGrace

@lilbroomstick:

He was trying to save Miles? Put him in an energy field and started firing missiles like crazy even harming Steve.. He did a real good job there. Id argue detaining someone sounds like the more safe thing to do than firing missiles at their direction... but oh well

Your the one who brought up Carol to begin with using alt. Earth scans with heavy context to pretend there was some superiority Tony had.

Tony hasn’t beat her since she’s been stated to having gotten stronger and he has wins against her War Bird persona in an Ironman comic where she’s stated to having gotten weaker due to not having access to her Binary form no longer or instances where she’s drunk and doesn’t even know where she’s at.. Using history between characters is fine ignoring context to put one character on a higher pedestal isn’t however.

You act like Ironman hasnt struggled with Spidey, Captain America, Heck The Protector among several other characters. No one is denying He has weapons that could put him at levels beyond high tiers, the weird issue is acting like he’s Thor level on consistency even with the Bleeding Edge armor that’s false. Without scaling he doesn’t have the damage output, the durability or strength to be argued as a peer for Odinson. The weapons you argue for that are planetary aren’t even of consistent use or have shown up after Secret Wars..

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#132  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@ecstaticgrace: Actually the other guys brought up Carol by constantly bringing up that he lost to her. I think the point was that marvel wanted show the bleeding edge was stronger than ever what easier way is there then by showing he's on equal or greater terms with Thor/Hulk. His fights against Taurus, Thor, Ulik, Worthy Grey Gargoyle, Rulk, and Hulk shouldn't be disregarded just because he didn't do something like unleashing a multi-planet level attack. It's much easier for Marvel to use evidence that Iron Man can directly scale to Thor. I'd consider Bleeding edge slightly under Thor but stunning Mangog, fighting Magneto, and fighting Taurus were all undeniably high tier level feats. Bleeding edge was consistently impressive from what I remember.

I never said he hasn't struggled with people like Spiderman but it isn't fair to use that against him if we aren't using that against everyone, especially when his villains are stronger than Spider-Man. Hulk himself is probably worse than Iron Man when it comes to struggling with people like this and it happens to Thor sometimes too. I was saying Iron Man has not only beaten Carol but was just generally more impressive to me before her new upgrade.

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Lilbroomstick

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@hulk_like_fire: Good to hear! Iron Man is a bit underrated because he isn't a pure brick and doesn't rely only on his physicals like Thing does but even the classic armor is arguably in Thing's class by feats.

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@lilbroomstick: He is smart though. You don't really need to be a brick to win. Just give him some prep and he'll figure it out.

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#135  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@hulk_like_fire: Yep, he's even taken down the likes of Sentry and Hyperion with prep.

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@lilbroomstick said:

@dcandmarvelcomicfan: lol why though?

I think its because he beat immortal hulk

Thing used one of those every once in a while stat boosts I was talking about earlier. Some people seem to legitimately use it as apart of the reason Thing is stronger. It's just as bad low-balling MCU Iron Man because he lost to Bucky and Cap. Anyway do you think Ben would beat Tony?

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@lilbroomstick: I don't understand why people keep low balling Movie Iron man since he lost to Buck and Cap, did't they see his upgrades on the last two movies?

I don't want to argue with the people on here but since this is 616 BE Iron man, i say he could beat Ben.

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"haha yeah you caught me it was an alternate reality, i was just joking lol"

amazing

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Thing with mid difficulty.

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@lilbroomstick: I’m not arguing that his high ends should be disregarded and his lowends should be used. I think it makes more sense to use performance against characters at a vague amount.

While actually looking at stats the character has on his own merit. There’s nothing wrong with for example saying Ironman’s repulsors can harm Thor or that The Thing can rock Hulk with a punch but it’s more efficient to look at what the repulsors or The Thing can do on their own merit without scaling on characters who have their own personal feats.

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@supremegeneration said:

Pure H2H? I’d back Thing with recent feats. He’s been showing off quite a bit. Tony gives him a run for his money, but I got Ben.

What has Ben done recently?

Current Thing is durable enough to take a beating from immortal hulk to the point where his skin was getting destroyed and keep going, and it was stated by the artist that a mjolnir throw would only crack his skin, never mind being durable enough to take a sustained blast from galactus that would cleave a planet in two, shattering a rod that held in the power cosmic, throwing a tree around the planet, hitting as hard as a strombreaker hammer throw, stalemated cho hulk, etc

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#143  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@battle123axe: Oh, I know about most of those already. It's like I said Thing can punch above his class every once in a while unless this is his legitimate consistent level now. If so, how did Ben get that strong?

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Battle123axe

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#144  Edited By Battle123axe

Wait how are dozens of scans of Thing being above iron man with like 3 scans otherwise Low showings for Tony and high ends for thing. How is every showing of Thing being more powerful a Thing high end?

Thing wins.

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@battle123axe: Oh, I know about most of those already. It's like I said Thing can punch above his class every once in a while unless this his legitimate consistent level now. If so, how did Ben get that strong?

He constantly gets stronger over time by absorbing cosmic energy, it's a part of his powers. It's not every once in a while though, there are dozens of dozens of instances. Tony can "punch above his class" too if this is the case.

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@dcandmarvelcomicfan: MCU Iron Man would have been better off without civil war and Iron Man 3 feats but people still somehow ignore that he has stronger armors and based their answers off of those lol

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@lilbroomstick: I’m not arguing that his high ends should be disregarded and his lowends should be used. I think it makes more sense to use performance against characters at a vague amount.

While actually looking at stats the character has on his own merit. There’s nothing wrong with for example saying Ironman’s repulsors can harm Thor or that The Thing can rock Hulk with a punch but it’s more efficient to look at what the repulsors or The Thing can do on their own merit without scaling on characters who have their own personal feats.

Iron Man and generally everyone got most of their clear destruction feats in the classic days. Iron Man has shattered mountains with the shockwaves of his punches, bursted through a mountain the size of Manhattan, tanked a West Coast destroying blast, casually moved/cracked an entire man-made island, and survived an explosion that was powerful enough to be felt in China. Iron Man does get more feats like that with extremis tanking 5 nukes at less than 5% power and his space armor surviving another West Coast destroying blast but generally he now focuses more on speed since that seemed to be the least focused stat in the past. I mean if Thanos hasn't destroyed a planet in a while does that mean his feats of fighting the avengers should be disregarded until he destroys more planets? I just think with the feats Iron Man already has shown without scaling it should be enough for his feats that require scaling to be valid. It's like saying Bleeding edge/extremis are weaker than the classic armors in everything besides speed despite it being shown that's not the case.

I do think Thing benefits from scaling more than Iron Man does based off the arguments made for him and the fact that the greatest strength feat I remember for him was in the 30,000 ton range.

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#148  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@battle123axe: Yeah, not that Ben is weak but Iron Man is a overall more powerful hero and generally has been above every mid tier. From what I've seen Ben is above Colossus(no cytorrak) and Grey Hulk. Hulk is usually a threat to the fantastic four as a whole so whenever I see that immortal Hulk instance I take it with a grain of salt. If Ben gets stronger with cosmic energy then fair enough but Ben has been punching out of class every once in a while even before his more recent feats. Meanwhile Iron Man's whole thing is upgrading and I'd imagine it's much faster than what Thing does. Iron Man punching out of his class usually have logical reasons for it like upgrading to a better armor, deactivating his safety protocols to knock out mindless hulk(whereas Ben seemingly just used willpower to knock out immortal Hulk...just like an anime character), or absorbing the electromagnetic fields from Planets so he could fight against Magneto who could do the same thing.

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@ecstaticgrace said:

@lilbroomstick: I’m not arguing that his high ends should be disregarded and his lowends should be used. I think it makes more sense to use performance against characters at a vague amount.

While actually looking at stats the character has on his own merit. There’s nothing wrong with for example saying Ironman’s repulsors can harm Thor or that The Thing can rock Hulk with a punch but it’s more efficient to look at what the repulsors or The Thing can do on their own merit without scaling on characters who have their own personal feats.

Iron Man and generally everyone got most of their clear destruction feats in the classic days. Iron Man has shattered mountains with the shockwaves of his punches, bursted through a mountain the size of Manhattan, tanked a West Coast destroying blast, casually moved/cracked an entire man-made island, and survived an explosion that was powerful enough to be felt in China. Iron Man does get more feats like that with extremis tanking 5 nukes at less than 5% power and his space armor surviving another West Coast destroying blast but generally he now focuses more on speed since that seemed to be the least focused stat in the past. I mean if Thanos hasn't destroyed a planet in a while does that mean his feats of fighting the avengers should be disregarded until he destroys more planets? I just think with the feats Iron Man already has shown without scaling it should be enough for his feats that require scaling to be valid. It's like saying Bleeding edge/extremis are weaker than the classic armors in everything besides speed despite it being shown that's not the case.

I do think Thing benefits from scaling more than Iron Man does based off the arguments made for him and the fact that the greatest strength feat I remember for him was in the 30,000 ton range.

The difference between Thanos and Ironman though is that Ironman has several long running series that’s why it’s fair to compare him to Thor and Hulk who perform feats on their own without scaling to other characters because the protagonist of heroes rather actually get series where we get to see them display feats on their own.

Consistently Thanos rides on the fact also that he’s displayed above Thor, Hulk, ETC. If Thor implies he’s going to kill Thanos yet fails to do so or his attack after suggesting his intent on killing Thanos does no damage whatsoever it makes more sense to scale Thor’s best feats to that attack because we understand the narrative is to suggest Thanos is physically superior to Thor.

If Darkseid who doesn’t have many appearances given he doesn’t have his own long running title consistently is shown to overpower Superman who attempts to get in a grappling match with him but next panel is overwhelmed. Thats fair to scale off Superman’s best feats because we have consistency of Darkseid being physically above Superman.

That makes sense right?

I honestly think the Immortal Hulk thing for The Thing is blown out of proportion as well and on top of the idea that a scan from the 60s or so saying he gets stronger over time doesn’t really help his case. If he’s getting put on the ground by War Machine after grabbing him. I don’t follow The Thing but I struggle to believe that Immortal Hulk thing is some form of consistent for him. Not that I don’t think The Thing is capable of lasting in fights against high tiers given he has a consistency of doing so and the fact he’s a brick with little to no versatility so that helps him showing wise in regards to scaling more here against Ironman in a H2H fight.

Not arguing for either but I don’t think scaling on high or low ends is a good way to determine a victor.

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Thing recently has a planet splitting feat, a feat where he shrugs off the best heat and pressure Ego had to bring then survives his disentegration, a feat of him knocking down a living black hole, easily overpowered pressure that could crush a small mountain, thrown a tree around the planet, brought down a mountain with the shockwaves of his hits, ignored a nuclear bomb, held together a 200000 ton bridge, overpowered a machine that could push through a planet, survived the pressure of a planet on his back, casually makes weapons with hyperdense skyscrapers, took pressure hundreds of times greater than a nukes, flexed down a mountain. I think his non-scaling feats are impressive enough to compete here.

It's also been mentioned several times that Thing consistently gets stronger, he's easily beaten past versions of himself. and I hardly see how the age of a scan invalidates it if there isn't anything contradicting it. Neither is getting put on the ground by war machine in a series where he made hercules reel in pain, fought captain marvel to a near standstill, and beat up iron man. I think The immortal Hulk showing is a high end but i'm not gonna discount entirely because he's recently done things like stalemate cho hulk and has clearly gotten a power bump. Just like i'm not gonna discount entirely carol danvers showings against the avengers because she's clearly gotten a power bump, though i beleive she's not consistely that powerful.