Black Panther vs Agent Venom

No prep, random encounter, no morals, to the KO or death, start in times square Manhattan

Flash can vulk out

Lol

Venom lol stomps

AV

Venom takes this easily....

Agent Venom stomps hard.

Flash wrecks.

Wouldn't have thought this was a stomp, Black Panther is overpowered for a street level character with his tech, etc

@jay_z94: Yeah but Thompson is pretty well above street.

I know lol, but I thought BP would be a match with his tech and physical enchancements (more so tech)

T'challa

Flash, pretty easily. T'Challa doesn't have a way to put him down, unless vibranium daggers can affect the symbiote. Even then, I think Flash would beat him.

What are your reasons? I'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just curious, as everyone else is saying AV stomps BP.

Do you still have that mine collapsing feat scan?

@cgoodness: Refresh my memory, mine collapse?

I have a lot of Thompson scans so if we can narrow it down a bit more that'd be a help lol.

I haven't followed Agent venoms guardians of the galaxy stuff but I don't think he's done anything to justify stomping black panther. HIs speed isn't spider-man level and all though his damage soak is good black panthers current gear allows him to hurt tougher people. I don't see why black panther cannot win at all.

@granitesoldier: It was during the whole road trip with Jack O Lantern, AV held up a collapsing mine shaft.

Black Panther armlocked the Silver Surfer. He wins.

This is a closer fight than many people are making it out to be but I still go with AV.

Flash gets armlocked.

Silver surfer allowed himself to get arm locked.

In my opinion he does wins, and I would use the Super Skrull feat to justify that. With his Energy Daggers I can see him hurting Thompson a lot, if that thing penetrated into an Iron Man armour, the symbiote would be nothing, and it could even be set to electrocute him. Also, his teleporter is standard gear too. And he was bitchslapped by Hulk and survived, not to mention the Iron Fist and Namor. It would depend on the gear that he have here, but overall, I see him having the advantage against regular Agent Venom (As we don't know to what extent he was buffed).

It was a joke.

@jashro44: I emailed Cullen Bunn about Thompson's speed and he said he wrote Flash 'as pretty equal' with Peter. His stories never revolved around showcasing speed though. I can crop the conversation if you like.

@cgoodness: I'll see if I can dig that up.

@hiddenlight: Electrocuting Flash is a temporary distraction at best. And the guy has taken hits from plenty of heavy hitters himself to justify durability on par with Panther and a healing factor that puts him over the top (he regrew his head after all). End of his solo he's capable of handling Panther with difficulty due to Panther's skill and tech (mostly tech) and Panther can maybe pull a few wins. His buff in GotG is still pretty moot still since we haven't seen him do much. We saw him restrain Yotat in the recent Guardians of Knowhere issue, who beat down all of the GotG including the current Black Vortex Gamora, but that's about it and after Secret Wars the canon validity of all the Secret Wars stuff will be scrutinized I'm sure.

@granitesoldier: That is Cullen Bunns opinion on venom. He didn't do anything to showcase this and other writers could have a different opinion. Rick Reminder for example had taskmaster dance around Thompson using spider-mans moves and also had issues with deathadders speed IIRC. Even under Bunn himself IIRC Kaine seemed to be faster than Flash when they fought. I mean the taskmaster instance is PIS admittedly but my point is Flash doesn't have the feats to match Peter. The opinion of a writer is fine but I think there needs to be some substance to support this.

i was going to give it to T'challa but no morals means venom would squeeze tchalla out of his suit like a vibranium tube of toothpaste . i have no idea if vibranium affects symbiotes but if it does harm it , T'challa after a very tough and brutal fight. if not wakandan flavor toothpaste it is.

@jashro44: Except you're taking the Taskmaster feat out of context. Venom was supposed to let Taskmaster win so they can follow him back to his employer. If he couldn't sell himself as a villain he was supposed to not kick his ass.

Death Adder he never had issue with speed. He had issue with his poison. Which under Remender Venom and Thompson didn't get along and the suit was drugged. Flash commented several times in various issues about how he was never 100%. He even noted that he could let the suit prevent him from getting drunk, except he didn't trust it enough to give it that much freedom.

Kaine is also faster than Peter, and Panther for that matter. So if he's faster than Flash it's pretty irrelevant for Flash's speed relative to Peter's. And Kaine never blitzed or danced around Thompson for that matter either.

And beyond that Flash (with his distrusted, drugged, and weakened suit) was still able to react to a no-fooling-around Peter (Betty's life was in danger and she's a good friend of Peter's after all) in what I believe is issue four and tag Peter with webs and fists. So even IF you want to try and argue Panther's speed that goes to show that even a degraded Flash can react to and tag Spider-Man, who is faster than Panther.

Plus when you look at his feats like blitzing Carnage, dodging sniper fire at point blank, and keeping up with Kraven in hand to hand while being poisoned combined with keeping up with Peter there's enough to solidify Bunn's statement. And half of those were under Remender's weakened/drugged Venom.

So yeah I'd say it carries weight.

@jashro44: Oh damn it I gave a whole list of context and evidence to support it but when I refreshed the page hit delete...check your notifications page maybe it saved there...

@k4tzm4n: @saren: @god_spawn:

Is it possible for one of you to undelete the post I accidently deleted? It took me a bit to write up and I don't have it saved anywhere to re-post.

@granitesoldier: Done.

@god_spawn: Thank you sir.

@granitesoldier: Not sure if you deleted your comment or if comicvine is being buggy but:

Except you're taking the Taskmaster feat out of context. Venom was supposed to let Taskmaster win so they can follow him back to his employer. If he couldn't sell himself as a villain he was supposed to not kick his ass.

Can you give me the issue this was stated in? I don't remember this. Regardless there are other showings that can be used.

Death Adder he never had issue with speed. He had issue with his poison. Which under Remender Venom and Thompson didn't get along and the suit was drugged. Flash commented several times in various issues about how he was never 100%. He even noted that he could let the suit prevent him from getting drunk, except he didn't trust it enough to give it that much freedom.

Flash did comment he saw death adder as blurs and traces IIRC and that he was moving faster than eyes can track. I guess you can attribute that to the poisons partially but even under Reminder Flash was still a little resistant to poisons. IIRC he commented he should have been dead from Kravens poisons. Likewise despite being poisoned by Kraven he was still able to fight him.

Kaine is also faster than Peter, and Panther for that matter. So if he's faster than Flash it's pretty irrelevant for Flash's speed relative to Peter's. And Kaine never blitzed or danced around Thompson for that matter either.

Kaine is faster than Peter but its not a big gap. He is marginally faster due to statement and on paper stats but even he doesn't really have the feats. His feats put him mostly on par with Peter. And Kaine did blitz venom after he cut free from Flashes tendrils. It also looks like he dodged a punch from venom but its hard to tell due to the way its drawn. Kaine punched him several times before venom could grab him. The issue was Kaine just couldn't put him down. I would say his durability was key in grabbing kaine in this instance:

Gallery

Black Panther might not be as fast as kaine but that isn't what we are debating. My claim was Flash doesn't have spider-man level speed. I never said black panther does.

And beyond that Flash (with his distrusted, drugged, and weakened suit) was still able to react to a no-fooling-around Peter (Betty's life was in danger and she's a good friend of Peter's after all) in what I believe is issue four and tag Peter with webs and fists. So even IF you want to try and argue Panther's speed that goes to show that even a degraded Flash can react to and tag Spider-Man, who is faster than Panther.

Peter landed more hits in that fight (granted there were circumstances so I wont use this as evidence). Flash webbed Peter while peter was warning civillans, and punched Peter while Peter leapt right at him. There isn't a whole lot Peter can do when he is in mid air. That and you don't need to be as fast as Peter to tag Peter. Wolverine, black panther, even rhino have all done it with Peter even commenting on there speed (yes Peter has even commented on rhinos speed before). And in wolverines case Peter wasn't holding back at all.

Again the fight was circumstantial so I wont hold anything against Flash here and agree its a good showing. But I don't think it shows his speed is on Peters level. At best I can say its a showing he can react to a blitz from Peter but thats as far as it goes.

Plus when you look at his feats like blitzing Carnage, dodging sniper fire at point blank, and keeping up with Kraven in hand to hand while being poisoned combined with keeping up with Peter there's enough to solidify Bunn's statement. And half of those were under Remender's weakened/drugged Venom.

So yeah I'd say it carries weight.

Carnage has been a mediocre fighter for a while now. Deadpool was dodging his attacks and keeping up with carnage just fine in the deadpool vs carnage series IIRC. Kraven keeps up with spider-man partially due to his knowledge of Peter and the fact he's studied him. He isn't in the same league as Peter either. Dodging the hunting rifle from Kraven at point blank while drugged is indeed impressive but Peter has done the same to automatic gunfire before. Peters dodged sniper bullets after they were fired. We also have showings like the infamous grim hunt scene where Peter dodges a modified rifle that has a bullet travelling at mach 3.5. He's dodged bullets from entire firing squads simultaneously, than there is the stiltman factory feat where Peter dodges lasers, missiles, and a bunch of other stuff from every direction.

So Peter still has the better feats I would say. I'm not saying Flash is slow (hence why I said the taskmaster thing was PIS despite using it) but he just isn't as fast as Peter.

@jashro44: I nor Bunn said he was. 'Nearly equal' is the wording he used. I didn't take that to mean equal. I look at Flash to Peter as like the gap from Peter to Kaine. Flash is slower, but not to any great degree. I think Bunn meant something similar.

Which again doesn't give Panther any real edge, if any edge at all, in speed compared to Thompson. Thay was my only real point.

My intent was not to claim Flash is as fast as Peter, just say he's fast in his own right and not far off. Peter has more and better speed feats to be certain.

@bullet_to_the_head: whats stopping an intangible energy dagger from deadening all his nerves?

Well I guess I am fine with saying Peter can't bltiz Flash but I don't think they are too close. All though maybe its because Flash also lacks Peters spider-sense and isn't as skilled as someone like wolverine or black panther that gives me that impression. So I guess I can believe he is nearly equal to Peter without his spider-sense.

@jashro44: There's also the fact that writers write for entertainment and storytelling, not feats. So what they conceptualize isn't always prominent to the story and therefore doesn't make it onto the page. It makes writer statements tricky but generally as long as they aren't counter to what is explicitly shown on panel they tend to hold water in my opinion.

The symbiote. And the fact that Flash won't just stand there and let him do it

I wouldn't call this a stomp. Agent Venom isn't particularly fast and more vulnerable to slashing-type attacks rather than blunt-force trauma so Black Panther will be able to hit Flash and do some damage with his claws. Thompson still wins though.

hmm

Personally my view is that if its something subjective than it should be something taken into account but weighed with there feats.

@jashro44: I don't think that's too far off from what I'm saying, just different delivery.

Wasn't Kraven giving Flash problems. BP would as well. This is a closer match then some would pretend

BP easily.

Flash. Not a stomp by any means

@darkraiden: How so?

The same Kraven that was tanking hits from the hulk.... weird I know. Who do you reckon takes the majority?