@gremlin_from_kremlin: I have that book on my shelf. She beat one of the brothers in a straight h2h match. The brothers are known to have above Batman level skill. It's in Birds of Prey. BC has also taken the second most dangerous woman in the world more than once. She was also a student of Lady Shiva. When she was injured by Savant who is on par with Batman in h2h, she trained heavily for a time with Wildcat, Wonder Woman(whom she toppled), Nightwing, Cassandra Cain, and LadyShiva. Savant ended up greatly injured on the rematch. Also Cassandra Cain has said that sparring with BC was like sparring with Lady Shiva. BTW based on what I've read of BC like taking the Ravens, I'd say she'd win.
Black Canary VS Black Widow
Canary's defeated Shiva-level combatants. Not sure if Natasha's accomplished anything of that caliber.
@ultimatewarrior123:Personally I think DC has people like Lady Shiva, White Canary, Ben Turner, Richard Dragon, and Karate Kid whoh could curbstomp people like Black Widow, Cap, and Elektra
Ooh carfight. I'll be the guy with the camera as these two sexy super babes fight in skintight jumpsuits
@cosmicspiral: take that back that title goes to the karate kid(DC Comics)
Dinah. Widow is propably physical superior, but Dinah is more skillful and if battle goes wrong for her she can always resort to Canary Cry.
For everyone who thinks BW beats BC:
Dinah was trained by Wildcat, a.k.a. Ted Grant, who in his own right is one of the best fighters in the DC Universe. She was also trained by another very deadly DC martial artist, Richard Dragon, as well as training with Lady Shiva, the DC Universe's deadliest assassin. At this point in time, Dinah is confirmed to be a master of Aikido, Capoeira, Dragon-style Kung Fu, Hapkido, Judo, Jujutsu, Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Savate, Tae Kwon Do and Wing Chun. She also trained with Diana Prince, learning the basics of the different Amazonian martial arts and has also been trained extensively in pressure point fighting. It was stated that she can take down Batman (by Oracle who saw both of them fight for years), she has a cry that can make Superman's ears bleed, she can fly with the cry, she defeated Amazon's and fought off and made a girl bleed who had Shazam's powers. And did I mention, she knows a technique that can make your heart explode within hours? She once even fought against Wonder Woman in a sparring match and I think it was a tie. She defeated Bronze Tiger who is one of the best h2h fighters and she handled herself twice against Cassandra Cain. One time as a training (while Black Canary was even in a wheel chair) and one time she used new moves against Cassandra Cain. She held her own against her while Cassandra didn't even know it was Dinah. She defeated Rabbit, a brother of Silk, whose brothers gave even Connor Hawke a hard time. She also defeated Savant who is a really, really good h2h fighter. She stated that she's definetly better than Huntress, she beat the White Canary (she is on Shiva's level), she *always* beats Green Arrow on different occasions, sometimes even when he doesn't know it is Dinah. And one of the most impressive feats is the fact that she defeated Cheshire who once defeated Deathstroke. BW is nowhere near the level of BC. BW is good, BC is much better. Everyone who says something else is either a Marvel fanboy or just dumb af.
H2h? Widow than. She has more experience and is better trained. I saw someone say Bucky pwnd her...in MOVIES. Read some comics. In comics she's able to almost best Cap, who if we go by what Batman said in the crossovers could possibly beat him. Batman said it could have gone either way. So unless you think Canary can beat Bats h2h you should stop. If I remember correct DC counts the crossovers as cannon.
@saademi: said:
For everyone who thinks BW beats BC:
Dinah was trained by Wildcat, a.k.a. Ted Grant, who in his own right is one of the best fighters in the DC Universe. She was also trained by another very deadly DC martial artist, Richard Dragon, as well as training with Lady Shiva, the DC Universe's deadliest assassin.
Natasha was trained since her teens (in other words, awhile earlier, and therefore a bit longer than Dinah) by the Russian government at Department X in the infamous Red Room as a spy, martial artist, and sniper in an extensive, years long, intense grueling training program. Part of that training was overseen by Captain America's former partner turned Soviet assassin Bucky Barnes A.K.A. The Winter Soldier. She emerged from this regimen as the most accomplished, revered, and regarded "Black Widow" of all time.
At this point in time, Dinah is confirmed to be a master of Aikido, Capoeira, Dragon-style Kung Fu, Hapkido, Judo, Jujutsu, Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Savate, Tae Kwon Do and Wing Chun.
Black Widow is master class combatant and expert martial artist in a wide range of disciplines, including Karate, Judo, Jujutsu, Boxing, Muay Thai, Sambo, Aikido, Savate, Ninjutsu, multiple styles of Kung Fu, and Kenpo.
She also trained with Diana Prince, learning the basics of the different Amazonian martial arts and has also been trained extensively in pressure point fighting.
Natasha is bio-technologically and psycho-technologically enhanced—an upgrade on what would be normal human physicals that accounts for her aerialist, complex maneuvers and feats, her agility that is far greater than that of an Olympic level athlete that lets her coordinate her body with balance, flexibility, and dexterity easily, and her unusually long and youthful lifespan.
It was stated that she can take down Batman (by Oracle who saw both of them fight for years),
Natasha actually defeated Captain America in his OWN BOOK in Captain America issue 376 . After a lengthy battle she maneuvers behind him, taps him on the shoulder, and he strikes where she should be-except that she cleverly hung above him using her spider-like clinging ability to hang by her feet to a surface! So he strikes the wall where she SHOULD be, and in that moment she uses her Widow's bite-right to his face-to take him out!;
she has a cry that can make Superman's ears bleed, she can fly with the cry, she defeated Amazon's and fought off and made a girl bleed who had Shazam's powers.
As just referred to, the Russian has a game changer/ender lethal weapon of her own-gauntlets that fire her "Widow's Bite"; this weapon can emit up to 30,000 volts of an electrostatic charge. Set at a high enough charge, obviously, it can terminate an opponent. The Russian defeated a heavily armed strike team despite the fact that they ambushed her while she was in the shower https://imgur.com/a/oZUmR and topped that when she defeated literally 100 armed, deadly assassins in Marvel Two-In-One 10 to keep them from stopping the Thing from pulling up a deadly, enormous bomb from being dropped on the city https://imgur.com/a/iQO9J and Black Widow displayed the skill to flip Typhon, a giant, arch enemy of Hercules who is in Herc's strength and durability tier; the God bellowed with rage that a "mere mortal female" managed to accomplish such a feat
And did I mention, she knows a technique that can make your heart explode within hours?
Natasha can smash several boards with a single shot https://imgur.com/a/tu5sT so she can do far worse to a person's much more fragile heart---or ribs---or skull
She once even fought against Wonder Woman in a sparring match and I think it was a tie.
Natasha managed to defeat Wonder Man https://imgur.com/a/C7mfD
She defeated Bronze Tiger who is one of the best h2h fighters and she handled herself twice against Cassandra Cain. One time as a training (while Black Canary was even in a wheel chair) and one time she used new moves against Cassandra Cain. She held her own against her while Cassandra didn't even know it was Dinah.
Widow used her incredible marksmanship skills to shoot through a tiny hole on a Dreadnought (Hydra robots that have decimated entire S.H.I.E.L.D squadrons and gone toe to toe with Iron Man) and destroy it, and beat her Soviet agent ex-husband twice, once when he was in the guise of The Red Guardian (who the Russian Government trained specifically to match Captain America, and he proved equal to the task by stalemating Cap in a protracted battle in "The Avengers" issue 44) and again years later when he was in the guise of Ronin
She defeated Rabbit, a brother of Silk, whose brothers gave even Connor Hawke a hard time.
Romanov defeated Recluse solo, a Red Room graduate who was skilled enough to capture Winter Soldier, and fight him and Widow to a standstill (the two barely defeated her even though it was two on one). Again, Natasha defeated this formidable opponent solo.
She also defeated Savant who is a really, really good h2h fighter.
Natasha defeated the meta human super team X-Force
She stated that she's definetly better than Huntress,
During a great story in Marvel Fanfare issues 10-13, in issue 11, Widow showed she's not better than just one formidable fighter; she single handily takes on 6 deadly assassins -N'kama, Deadshot Darrance, The Iron Maiden (an armored, longtime, constant Marvel villainess) Laralie The Wrangler, the Black Lotus (a lethal martial artist) and Kono (a Sumo who gave Captain America a tough battle, he had the strength of Bane and the martial arts prowess of at least Nightwing)-and, despite her arms being tied behind her back during a good bit of the confrontation defeats 5 of the six right then;
because of her armor, she has to flee the Iron Maiden but later takes her down by maneuvering agent Jimmy Woo into firing a powerful weapon onto the ground beneath the Maiden, causing her to sink down a sewer drain.
In the finale issue Natasha defeats another long time Marvel lethal assassin, Snapdragon.
she beat the White Canary (she is on Shiva's level),
In Black Widow issue, three, absolutely stalemated Electra (in a TRUE stalemate, not just an interrupted fight) despite undergoing major surgery a few days before;
she *always* beats Green Arrow on different occasions, sometimes even when he doesn't know it is Dinah.
Widow took on a brainwashed, blood lusted Hawkeye and another assailant simultaneously for an extended period of time https://imgur.com/a/A95LK
And one of the most impressive feats is the fact that she defeated Cheshire who once defeated Deathstroke.
Just as impressive, Romanov defeated Jean Grey, Viper, and Psyloche simultaneously
BW is nowhere near the level of BC. BW is good, BC is much better.
Considering Widow's feats and borderline meta human enhncements, that is highly debatable.
Everyone who says something else is either a Marvel fanboy or just dumb af.
This is a rather ridiculous, and unnecessarily inflammatory thing to claim. Black Canary is absolutely impressive, and most certainly has the credentials to win---
---but it doesn't require a person to be a "Marvel fanboy"-which I personally am most definitely not-nor "dumb af" (making such an outlandish claim, it can be argued, is what actually isn't the smartest thing to do) to assert that Black Widow's own impressive resume, abilities, and gear give her an excellent chance to defeat Black Canary, too.
Black Canary wins.
Widow is physical superior but cannery is more skilled
Widow is the winner
She is stronger,faster,hits harder and more durable
H2H wise Black Canary for the win. Widow's good and might land good stuff, but I'd love to see her outsmarting Black Adam with pure skill...
Besides, Nat has been outskilled by less experienced fighters in the past... those with similar training or background as Dinah...
This is too close but learning towards Widow Better Physicals and Comparable Skill
•Widow Took Down Hawkeye and Winter Soldier
•Held her own against Elektra
•Fought an Enemy that took down the avengers and was planet Level (Imus the Champion)
•Fought evenly with Lady Bullseye that was able to fight evenly with daredevil
Canary should wreck Widow.
Widow, after MCU, marvel decided to make her badass. before that she was just an enhanced russian spy with some acrobatic martial arts and a huge arsenal of toys. when daredevil was drugged and angry, he just grabbed widow by her ankle and use his knowledge of pressure points and nerve strikes to knock her out. canary takes this after a bit challenge.
@michaelbn: Widow was holding back when she fought daredevil and there were causalities while widow Took down Winter Solider and Hawkeye at the same time and was Holding her own against Elektra so widow wins after a bit
Holding back?? Okay, holding back or not she's nowhere near Matt's level and skill especially when he is pissed off. he showed he can nerve strike her leg and knock her out and from what I see canary showed more feats in terms of pressure points. As long as Hawkeye's record goes most of his decisions are made by his heart not mind and is always emotional, winter soldier couldn't keep up with Daredevil and he had upper hand, also he was holding back, he's a beast. Widow in not a slouch and is able to put a fight against canary, but she will go down after a close fight.
@michaelbn: Canary lost to Shiva that's on Elektra level while widow held her own against Elektra while she was injured and my point was that she will be able to Fight daredevil for a period of time and Widow took down Hawkeye and winter soldier in the new comics a send you the link
Shiva on par with Elektra? Please. Elektra have a lot pis feat and most of them are due to fighting dirty or using power, she's noticeably inferior to Matt and Matt is very close to Batman, and Shiva proved to be better than Batman, if someone give her pure H2H combat feats I will change my mind. Do you have scans that makes sense and not just being plot armor or something??
@michaelbn: How can you tell whats pis or not
crashing skull with one hand, tearing someone heart out of their body, kicking iron fist's butt... she's a normal human with extreme training to be on peak level and she had lesser training and experience (tough both means crap in comics since you need feats) and lesser feats than both iron fist and daredevil. or saying hawkeye can kick taskmaster out of a window is also PIS since he's nowhere near tasky's level. things doesn't make sense like batman punching superman without any toy and hurting him so bad, is PIS. send some scans that are not like this.
@michaelbn: And Canary's feats like beating black Adam and kicking somebody head off
@avengingwidow: that wasn't even H2H and was just another PIS, her canary cry can deaf superman but cannot knock him out, as far back as i can remember, and that head you mean ace? that giant silver robot? he hurt superman and withstand his punches, this PIS. do you have scans?
Canary can win using he Cry, that depends on the distance. Widow could always outdraw and keep her on her toes at range, she's a cut clean bullet timer and has showings like shooting through Hawkeye's bow string in a marksmanship battle yards away.
Melee, Natasha wins. Dinah is an excellent fighter, but I don't see her replicating fights with Elektra or Barnes, granted Romanov is full of low showings too.
After 4 months, I still lean towards Dinah with mid difficulty... Nat is arguably stronger and would give Dinah trouble, but she'd get outskilled so bad... I could totally see Dinah replicating what Nat has done against Elektra and Bucky... her feats against much superior opponents such as Giganta, Black Adam or Black Alice are actually really good reference of her skill and how she can outsmart and by so outskill Nat... not counting as well how she can destroy Cheshire, someone who has been able to put up a fight against such combatants like Nightwing and Deathstroke, and is a pain in the arse even for Starfire, who by her own is above Amazons and almost near WW's on Themyscira Amazon combat level, someone who even matches Artemis (someone who has defeated Batman and Cassandra Cain with very low difficulty, almost lack of it)... and for her lack of strength against Nat, Dinah could potentially use a special punch she wears taught by Wildcat, a punch she claims not even Shiva would be able to throw... or even pressure point techniques...
I'd totally place Dinah in the same place fighters like Nightwing and Daredevil are (counting feats, stats, rep and statements), while I'd place Nat near Cheshire level combatants are... maybe even lower... Nat doesn't look too impressive to me, and is much more inconsistent... one of the most inconsistent combatants in comics... she fought Elektra to a stalemate after surgery (under her OWN comic conditions)? That'd be a great feat if it wasn't a massive inconsistency considering she has been beaten down more than once by Daredevil levelers, who match Elektra as well... she has also beaten Wonder Man and Captain America levelers, right? then why the hell does she get handled as well by Punisher or even lower combat levelers??!
Dinah has held her own against much stronger, consistent and better fighters, examples being beating Metahumans, outsmart Black Adam, outskill Black Alice as well, use pressure points against Giganta... she also held her own against White Canary and the Brothers of Silk, combatants claimed to be near to Shiva level, and she even got victorious against them... damn, she had even defeated Amazons (whose stats are given through skill and training) tho it was under heavy context and she was having a hard time... and had been considered to train the Female Furies... she has been also shown to take care of Atlanteans with pure skill, and has kept Cassandra Cain and Lady Shiva busy enough in combat to accomplish training or even missions... even when she was mad as hell she got the upperhand against Wonder Woman (who to be fair was holding back to a degree where she wouldn't damage Dinah) in bo staff training... and is claimed to be on pair with Batman level combatants...
So at the end, Dinah wins 7-8/10 times against Nat...
Make Nat fight Black Canary I, and she'll take it with low-moderated difficulty... Give Nat a knife or any melee weaponry against Dinah and I'd say she'd take this after a hard time, Nat 6-8/10 times... give Nat her complete spy gear, and she'll win without too much trouble, 9-10/10 times... but, give Dinah her CC, and she'll more likely stomp 10/10 times...
Natasha in a decent fight
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