Avatar image for life_without_progress
#1 Posted by Life_Without_Progress (24716 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Black Ant & Taskmaster

VS

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Cyclops & Nightcrawler

In character

Winner by KO, Incapacitation or Death

Random encounter

Standard gear and abilities

Opponents are 30 meters away from each other at an unpopulated city setting at night with a fair amount of cover

Who'd win? For what reasons?

Online
Avatar image for rac95
#3 Edited by Rac95 (4757 posts) - - Show Bio

Taskmaster is the most skilled fighter by far and would defeat everyone in a CQC situation.

With this said, I give the X-Men the win. Cover has no use against Cyclops and Nightcrawler and the combination of their powers would give them the win most of the time. It also helps that they trained with each other and fought together during their adventures

Especially night helps Nightcrawler, since he can blend in the shadows to surprise someone

Online
Avatar image for kevd4wg
#4 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

Unpopulated City? 30 Meters? I'm going with X-Men

Avatar image for owie
#5 Posted by Owie (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

Anything interesting going on with Nightcrawler these days? I haven't read X-men for a couple years now, and I was curious if the beard signified anything beyond a visual change-up.

The distance make me think that Cyke would be able to take out Taskmaster before he closed. I could see Nightcrawler vs Black Ant being an interesting situation where neither was able to get a hold on the other. I guess ultimately I'd choose Nightcrawler there as the more experienced combatant, and someone who spent years in the Danger Room playing out all kinds of what-if scenarios.

Avatar image for warlockmage
#6 Posted by Warlockmage (9312 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2 7/10 times

Avatar image for bump1010
#7 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie said:

Anything interesting going on with Nightcrawler these days? I haven't read X-men for a couple years now, and I was curious if the beard signified anything beyond a visual change-up.

The distance make me think that Cyke would be able to take out Taskmaster before he closed. I could see Nightcrawler vs Black Ant being an interesting situation where neither was able to get a hold on the other. I guess ultimately I'd choose Nightcrawler there as the more experienced combatant, and someone who spent years in the Danger Room playing out all kinds of what-if scenarios.

But taksmaster doesn't have to close the distance on cyclops. He could shoot him, richoshet his cane, use trick arrows, throw his shield, etc. I'm not familiar with black ant but its interesting to see him used in a battle thread.

Avatar image for pyrofn
#8 Edited by PyroFN (6412 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: He is not shooting Cyclops before getting blasted.

https://i.imgur.com/mYyvSaV_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/hPfpfFg_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/Oc6ekFn_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/k5M79PX_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/cOpYUhC_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Those are just distance and aim. I haven’t even gotten to his aoe or wide blasts.

https://i.imgur.com/JUrLCml_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/kPkftnR_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Avatar image for bump1010
#9 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: Cyclops doesn't unload wide scale area of effect attacks in character. He has good aim but so does taskmaster.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

What makes me think taskmaster has the edge on cyclops is I think he is a lot better at dodging. You can see this in the captain america scan I posted but taskmaster has the ability to analyze the physical movement of people's he's fought and he can anticipate their physical movements. He did the same to hawkeye to dodge one of his arrows:

No Caption Provided

So he should be able to follow Soctt's aim pretty easily with this ability in mind. And his agility is top notch.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

I don't see why taskmaster can't dodge cyclops aim unless Scott opens up with an area of effect attack. But super heroes typically try to keep collateral damage to a minimum so I don't see that happening.

Avatar image for owie
#10 Posted by Owie (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: I don't think anyone would doubt Taskmaster's agility, skills, or ability to deflect in most circumstances. However, it is one thing to deflect physical objects, and another to deflect a beam of concussive force that knocks away the object that it hits. Captain America's shield can do it, because it's part vibranium and thus absorbent of kinetic energy. Taskmaster's isn't, nor is his sword. Also, a 30 meter distance is fairly long. He can shoot that distance with arrows, but it's going to take a lot longer for his arrows to travel that distance than Cyke's energy beams, and Cyke is also excellent at shooting down targets that are traveling towards him.

I'll post some examples of Cyclops shoot down mobile targets, and also wide beams in character tonight.

Avatar image for pyrofn
#11 Posted by PyroFN (6412 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: Scott does wide area attacks a lot in character.

https://i.imgur.com/icNjnky_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/KcZueVW_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/TVYq8uT_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/9ft9m0o_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/M6j6mPh_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/vYTIDDj_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/I81USoB_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/9Pxm7ev_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/dlYc9V0_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

The only reason we see the narrow beam more is due to Scott’s strategy. If Scott believes that a wide beam is needed, he will use it. It all depends on Scott’s planning.

https://i.imgur.com/S6lqXOi_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/WDiaoXP_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/2Xnaylq_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/xr3oqAl_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/n7d7Ezq_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Taskmaster isn’t the only one able to predict his opponents movements as I’ve shown in the dinosaur scans and other scans of his strategy, but let’s see more examples.

https://i.imgur.com/YPfvJJ3_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/c3orR6F_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/sgoqnrq_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/N7IVmXx_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/gSJ2Geu_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/ODvcBWC_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/e3l3HfB_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

https://i.imgur.com/R7O65d2_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Avatar image for thedailybagel
#12 Posted by Thedailybagel (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

Black ant and taskmaster as a duo is a joke. They lose by somehow running into each other.

Avatar image for bump1010
#13 Edited by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

I don't think anyone would doubt Taskmaster's agility, skills, or ability to deflect in most circumstances. However, it is one thing to deflect physical objects, and another to deflect a beam of concussive force that knocks away the object that it hits. Captain America's shield can do it, because it's part vibranium and thus absorbent of kinetic energy. Taskmaster's isn't, nor is his sword.

I wasn't arguing he can deflect the beam. I just posted the scan of him anticipating captain america and hawkeye's movements to show that taskmaster in general has the ability to anticipate physical movements of people he sees. He can use this ability to stay ahead of cyclops aim.

Also, a 30 meter distance is fairly long. He can shoot that distance with arrows, but it's going to take a lot longer for his arrows to travel that distance than Cyke's energy beams, and Cyke is also excellent at shooting down targets that are traveling towards him.

If cyclops decides to aim at taskmaster's arrows, shield, billy club, or whatever it just gives taskmaster another second to close the gap unabated. Also I would like to point out taskmaster has trick arrows and flash bangs he can use to distract cyclops.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

He can use the sonic arrow to distract cyclops and when he is range he can blind him and than beat him in CQC.

I'll post some examples of Cyclops shoot down mobile targets, and also wide beams in character tonight.

Alright. The wide beam thing might depend on context though. I can see cyclops doing that in some circumstances but not sure if he would do that in a city where property damage is a thing. Especially with Kurt on the battle field. I mean in the most recent issue of uncanny he didn't do it when fighting alongside wolverine in a forest.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
EDIT: These scans are out of order for some reason. The 3rd scan should be 1st, the 1st scan should be 2nd and the 2nd scan should be 3rd.....I blame comicvine.

@pyrofn Hey man but in the future if your going to use links can you hyperlink them? Its a bit of a pain to open all those links in a new tab.

As for your scans a lot of those area of effect attacks are against bricks, giant robots, power houses, or mobs of people. I didn't see a single scan where he used a huge attack like that against someone like daredevil. I can post several examples of people dodging cyclops blasts. I can also drop a scan bomb of cyclops not firing wide scale optic blasts.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

You also brought up cyclops ability to predict people's movements. Yea he is tactical but I haven't seen him show much skill when it comes to leading targets honestly. And my major point with taskmaster is he has the ability to read physical movements. So he will know which direction cyclops is going to turn his head before he actually does it. This lets him stay ahead of its target.

Avatar image for owie
#14 Edited by Owie (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: So you already got a bunch of Cyclops scans from @pyrofn, but I'll add more.

Accuracy/Control

Shoots through a keyhole

Knocks ice off Angel's wings without hurting him

Hits one of Boom Boom's mini bombs while it's moving

Hits a teeny target amidst a machine

Hits a teeny crack in some armor using a needle thin beam

Does it again

Does the same thing to Hodge's armor

Takes out numerous missiles which move faster than arrows

Puts a hole in a thrown quarter

This one is actually amazing to me--while his visor is off, and he specifically says he has worse control than ususal, he shoots the cuffs off four people at once

Young Cyclops takes out multiple guys with one ricochet shot

Hits one little bead, which off-panel bounces back into their hands

Stops Cap's shield in mid-air

Hits Kraven

Hits Sabretooth

Hits Wolverine

Hits Wolverine

Hits Wolverine with richochet

Hits Wolverine

(those last several to point out he can hit agile foes)

Wide Angle

Knocks up dust

Wide beam on a normal guy

Wide beam on multiple normal guys

Wide beam when he's mad at Angel

Wide beam easily takes care of any stuff coming towards him--and the beam would just continue on to his Tasky behind it

Same

Wide beam on numerous villains including some "normal (non-superhumanly durable) guys" like Doc Ock

And

A little gymnastics for fun

So, he should be able to hit Taskmaster with a thin beam or a wide beam. (And if Tasky closes, Cyke has also fought Wolverine up close numerous times, it honestly on makes it easier for him to hit his target if it's close.)

Now, in the comics does he often miss people? Yes, for sure. Totally legit to bring that up. So we have to reconcile two things: 1) he has tons of feats hitting crazy angles and super-small targets and moving targets and agile targets, where the impressiveness of his ability to hit these very difficult things is emphasized by the writers/artists. 2) He also misses characters often.

How can both these be true? Some will say that he has good aim for inanimate targets, but essentially when he's under pressure, or going against a person, he freezes up or something and then misses. The problem here is, he hits moving, animate targets all the time too, and if he could only hit static targets, that wouldn't be much of an ability. So the other option is, he misses because his power is pretty much unbeatable for normal opponents, he can one-shot any streetlevelers. So the reason he misses is, if he hit, or went wide beam, the fight would be over immediately. So they show off how awesome he is at shooting in general, but then they have to make him miss to keep the fight from ending in one panel. But when he really needs to, he hits. This is a subjective answer, but it's the only one that makes sense to me.

Finally, Taskmaster doesn't really predict movements in the same way as Cass Cain. He can analyze a fighting style and counter, as you posted with Cap. But that's not the same thing as predicting where exactly Cyke's beam is going to land.

Avatar image for bump1010
#15 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

Cyclops has good aim when it comes to hitting stationary targets. I got no argument there. But I think some of the scans you posted of cyclops tagging agile targets are mostly out of context. My issue with cyclops is he doesn't seem to be good at leading a target. So I am mostly going to address the examples of Scott tagging agile people.

Hits Kraven

I do want to point out this was during the spider-man/X-men series where Kraven was hired by sinister to teal blood from the X-men but not kill them. You can argue it doesn't change the fact he was hit but I still think that is important to point out. But I also think its worth pointing out this was a fight where Kraven and blob was fighting the original 5 X-men and spider-man and he just got done attacking beast and angel when Scott blasted him. It looks like Kraven is just following through from attacking beast, he has one leg in the air when Scott shoots. So that would mean in that moment Kraven was off balance.

No Caption Provided

I also want to point out Kraven has shown difficulty fighting multiple enemies at once in the past. When he fought daredevil and black widow it was said Kraven is only use to tackling one prey at a time.

No Caption Provided

Hits Sabretooth

I'm not familiar with the instance so it would be helpful to see what was happening in the panel before Cyclops blasted him. Do you know the issue or can you upload the rest of the scan? Regardless while sabretooth does have super human agility and speed he tends to fight like an animal. He doesn't have the finesse that taskmaster has.

Hits Wolverine

It looks like wolverine is falling from the sky when blasted in this scan. He was either landing or still in the air when cyclops blasted him.

Hits Wolverine

Wolverine was on top of him at close range. He hesitated for a second as cyclops noted which left wolverine exposed.

Hits Wolverine with richochet

IIRC Wolverine was acting scared because of the X-mens encounter with Proteus. He was totally traumatized and Scott even said he was about to break in uncanny X-men 127.

No Caption Provided

Scott even notes in the scan you posted that he has to keep wolverine to confused and angry to do anything.

Hits Wolverine

I don't think this is a fair example. Wolverine and cyclops were arguing and Scott just blasted him. This is the previous page:

No Caption Provided

Granted Scott does tag wolverine at other points in the schism fight. However I do think that Logan doesn't use his agility the same way as taskmaster. Logan does have a tendency to tank damage.

Wide Angle

Well I'll say if Scott fights this way taskmaster can't really win. No street leveler would beat him outside of speed blitzing him before he can react. All I can say is in my reading Scott doesn't usually spam huge blasts like that, but I admit my cyclops reading is limited.

So, he should be able to hit Taskmaster with a thin beam or a wide beam. (And if Tasky closes, Cyke has also fought Wolverine up close numerous times, it honestly on makes it easier for him to hit his target if it's close.)

I don't agree he can tag taskmaster with a thin beam. As for fighting wolverine, he has but wolverine and taskmaster are different. While taskmaster doesn't have wolverines healing factor I think his equipment is a better advantage against cyclops than wolverines healing factor. Also taskmaster wont hesitate to kill cyclops.

Now, in the comics does he often miss people? Yes, for sure. Totally legit to bring that up. So we have to reconcile two things: 1) he has tons of feats hitting crazy angles and super-small targets and moving targets and agile targets, where the impressiveness of his ability to hit these very difficult things is emphasized by the writers/artists. 2) He also misses characters often.

How can both these be true? Some will say that he has good aim for inanimate targets, but essentially when he's under pressure, or going against a person, he freezes up or something and then misses. The problem here is, he hits moving, animate targets all the time too, and if he could only hit static targets, that wouldn't be much of an ability.

Thing is I don't really think he has tons of feats of hitting agile targets. I responded to the examples you posted above but I think when they are analyzed there not really impressive. I think cyclops is just not that good at predicting agile targets (unless its someone he has trained with and is familiar with like nightcrawler) or cornering them where he wants them to go.

So the other option is, he misses because his power is pretty much unbeatable for normal opponents, he can one-shot any streetlevelers. So the reason he misses is, if he hit, or went wide beam, the fight would be over immediately. So they show off how awesome he is at shooting in general, but then they have to make him miss to keep the fight from ending in one panel. But when he really needs to, he hits. This is a subjective answer, but it's the only one that makes sense to me.

I get where your coming from but I feel there are to many examples of his beams being dodged to just dismiss all of them as PIS. My only confusion is why Scott doesn't use a wide blast. I've rationalized it in my head as Scott not wanting to create collateral damage, or not wanting to hit a teammate.

Finally, Taskmaster doesn't really predict movements in the same way as Cass Cain. He can analyze a fighting style and counter, as you posted with Cap. But that's not the same thing as predicting where exactly Cyke's beam is going to land.

Well turning your head is a form of physical movement. I was thinking he could anticipate that.

Avatar image for pyrofn
#16 Edited by PyroFN (6412 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: 1) I would hyperlink if I could, but I’m on a phone. Actually, no, I would’ve put up the scans period. Ugh, comicvine is not the best on the phone, but it’s the most convenient. -_-

2) “I didn't see a single scan where he used a huge attack like that against someone like daredevil.”

True, but you did mention Taskmaster taking Scott out long range. If what you say is true, then either Taskmaster is shooting arrows or bullets one-by-one, causing Scott to suck for cover or destroy them via optic beam or he is shooting a barrage much like those missiles, prompting Scott to use his wide beam. One-by-one, Taskmaster is in the battle still, but if Taskmaster just starts spamming areas, he has signed his death warrant.

It’s real dependent on the situation at hand. See why Scott does to Human Torch with a wide area beam.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/2714419-optic_blasts_33.jpg

3) “So he will know which direction cyclops is going to turn his head before he actually does it.”

That’s under the assumption that he’s studied Scott before. He hasn’t. He can study Scott’s movements as the battle rages, but he can’t know something he has never seen.

4) “Yea he is tactical but I haven't seen him show much skill when it comes to leading targets honestly”

Hmmm...well, he has:

•Goons with special armor to protect from Scott’s optic blast get taken down by Scott switching strategies. This also takes care of your casualties doubts since this is clearly a populated convenience store.

https://static.comicvine.com/api/image/square_avatar/2714440-cyc_pickles2.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/78977/2714441-cyc_pickles3.jpg

•Storm hesitates with her lightning bolt, Scott tags her.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/2714495-acc_2.jpg

•Leadings opponents? He baits Kurt here into teleporting so that Scott could hit Wolverine. Then he predicts Krts movements up high. Granted they are his team so he knows them, but we at least know he is capable of predicting his opponents movements.

https://static.comicvine.com/api/image/square_avatar/2714592-vs_x_men2.jpg

•And again, there’s the beating a group of thugs with his eyes closed.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/78977/2714623-cykes_h2h_compilation.jpg

Avatar image for bump1010
#17 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn:

True, but you did mention Taskmaster taking Scott out long range. If what you say is true, then either Taskmaster is shooting arrows or bullets one-by-one, causing Scott to suck for cover or destroy them via optic beam or he is shooting a barrage much like those missiles, prompting Scott to use his wide beam. One-by-one, Taskmaster is in the battle still, but if Taskmaster just starts spamming areas, he has signed his death warrant.

It’s real dependent on the situation at hand. See why Scott does to Human Torch with a wide area beam.

Well what Scott is doing in that scan is he is countering human torches area of effect attack with his own. Taskmasters arrows don't explode until after they hit the ground. Taskmaster could also just use his gun. Bullets are smaller so he's not hitting those out of the air with an optic blast.

That’s under the assumption that he’s studied Scott before. He hasn’t. He can study Scott’s movements as the battle rages, but he can’t know something he has never seen.

Well actually in Coates captain america recently it was said taskmaster analyzes a movement and counters it just as quickly:

No Caption Provided

Goons with special armor to protect from Scott’s optic blast get taken down by Scott switching strategies. This also takes care of your casualties doubts since this is clearly a populated convenience store.

He's not really leading any of his targets. He does shoot the roof off the store to take the one thug out but he never really had other options in this fight since those people had special suits specifically designed to counter his powers. I think the context of the situation is different than a fight with taskmaster who is not immune to optic blasts. Meaning Scott doesn't have to resort to causing collateral damage.

Storm hesitates with her lightning bolt, Scott tags her.

Not only did storm hesitate as you said but she didn't even know she was fighting Cyclops. She thought she was fighting Jean. Which tells me her perception of reality was messed with here....

Leadings opponents? He baits Kurt here into teleporting so that Scott could hit Wolverine. Then he predicts Krts movements up high. Granted they are his team so he knows them, but we at least know he is capable of predicting his opponents movements.

As I said to Owie Scott knows nightcrawlers tactics. He knew where nightcrawler would teleport because they've worked together before. And Scott has commented on how predictable nightcrawler has been in the past. Scott knew that nightcrawler likes to "tackle his foes from above".

No Caption Provided

And again, there’s the beating a group of thugs with his eyes closed.

While I acknowledge Cyclops is decent at hand to hand we can't really compare him to taskmaster who's gone toe to toe with the literal best fighters in marvels because of his raw skill.

Avatar image for just_sayin
#18 Posted by just_sayin (3468 posts) - - Show Bio

Hank Pym was able to absorb Cyclops blast with his hand and then grab Cyclops head and squeezed it. Why couldn't Black Ant do the same thing?

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Avatar image for owie
#19 Posted by Owie (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010:Some of those are reasonable breakdowns of the specific dodging/targeting situation. But overall, he keeps hitting people when he needs to. The "he can't lead a moving target" argument is a standard one, but again it doesn't really hold up when you see him hit numerous moving and/or super-teeny targets, as I already showed with Boom Boom's time bomb, the thrown quarter, the flying Right armored guys, or the missiles. I think the "if he hit them he would end the fight" solution better solves the greater number of the contradiction's problems.

And while Scott is clearly nowhere near the H2H combatant that Taskmaster is, he has managed to grapple with a very serious Logan on multiple occasions, utilizing his beams in combination with his own skills. So even if they closed, it wouldn't necessarily be all over.

In terms of collateral damage, Scott can control his beam's power, with or without his visor. This is also a source of some inconsistency. The handbooks classically said that his power is basically like a hose with a steady stream of water. If hose's hole is opened all the way, the water pressure is kind of weak, but if you put your finger over most of the end, it focuses and gets much more powerful. In the same way, Scott's wide beam is supposed (according to these sources) to be weaker, and his focused beam more powerful. However, some comics have shown that his wider beam is his most powerful all-out shot. But in terms of on-panel feats over the years, he has actually shown that he can control the beam's power when it is wide and thin, goggles on or off.

So for instance:

Wide beam, super-powerful

Wide beam, blows the top off a mountain

Medium beam, cushions a back-sliding bus without destroying it

Medium beam, stops a falling boulder, then pushes it back (note description of using just the right amount of force)

Medium beam, rolls some guys around on the floor

Thin beam, no goggles, amount of force equivalent to slapping someone's hand

Thin beam, just closes a door with it

Thin beam, cuts a cake

Thin beam, only knocks out a guard

Thin beam, vaporizes a molecule's thickness off a wall

Thin beam, just breaks off a lock

Thin beam, knocks Hope down without hurting her

Thin beam, blows a hole in the Celestial-made Ship

Fairly thin beam, blows up an airliner

Thin beam, pierces the Blob

This is in addition to the various ranges of high and low power I showed earlier, which also showed him using thick and thin beams to do high and low amounts of damage (such as wide beams to take out normal guys without killing them). Long story now much shorter: he can use wide beams to take out Taskmaster without doing much property damage.

Avatar image for supermanthor
#20 Posted by Supermanthor (20341 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

Online
Avatar image for bump1010
#21 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie:

Some of those are reasonable breakdowns of the specific dodging/targeting situation. But overall, he keeps hitting people when he needs to. The "he can't lead a moving target" argument is a standard one, but again it doesn't really hold up when you see him hit numerous moving and/or super-teeny targets, as I already showed with Boom Boom's time bomb, the thrown quarter, the flying Right armored guys, or the missiles. I think the "if he hit them he would end the fight" solution better solves the greater number of the contradiction's problems.

I think the difference with this example and examples of street levelers dodging him are that street levelers are just really good at dodging. The way street levelers flip around is meant to confuse the person shooting at them and cause them to trip up. Stuff with shooting the quarter isn't really the same thing in my mind as shooting taskmaster because a quarter can only fall in one direction. As for the scan with the time bomb Jean (that looks like Jean so I am assuming its her) says she stopped the time bomb.

No Caption Provided

The only feat that I really feels shows leading a target is tagging the guy in armor in the seams of his suit. That is a good feat but I just think taskmaster is more competent. Going back to my example of taskmasters agility against iron man specifically taskmaster even makes note that "It's the evading, feigning and fooling that's keeping him off balance." This is why I think Scott struggles with street levelers. Because there good at using there agility to make him think there moving one way, but than they move another way and that's why he can't shoot them despite having good accuracy feats.

No Caption Provided

And while Scott is clearly nowhere near the H2H combatant that Taskmaster is, he has managed to grapple with a very serious Logan on multiple occasions, utilizing his beams in combination with his own skills. So even if they closed, it wouldn't necessarily be all over.

Well wolverine doesn't kill other heroes and taskmaster has a longer blade than wolverine does. I don't see Scott dancing around his sword in close quarters. He can use his optic blasts at close range which will makes things harder for taskmaster but I don't see Scott being a physical challenge for Tony.

In terms of collateral damage, Scott can control his beam's power, with or without his visor. This is also a source of some inconsistency. The handbooks classically said that his power is basically like a hose with a steady stream of water. If hose's hole is opened all the way, the water pressure is kind of weak, but if you put your finger over most of the end, it focuses and gets much more powerful. In the same way, Scott's wide beam is supposed (according to these sources) to be weaker, and his focused beam more powerful. However, some comics have shown that his wider beam is his most powerful all-out shot. But in terms of on-panel feats over the years, he has actually shown that he can control the beam's power when it is wide and thin, goggles on or off.

Yea I know he can control the power of his beam. Thing is he needs to make sure taskmaster stays down for the count. I don't think taskmaster is really beneath pretending to be knocked out and than attacking Scott when his guard is down.

This is in addition to the various ranges of high and low power I showed earlier, which also showed him using thick and thin beams to do high and low amounts of damage (such as wide beams to take out normal guys without killing them). Long story now much shorter: he can use wide beams to take out Taskmaster without doing much property damage.

Well as I said if Scott decides to fight that way he will win because there isn't anything taskmaster can do.

Avatar image for pyrofn
#22 Edited by PyroFN (6412 posts) - - Show Bio

@bump1010: Who do you count as the best? Captain America? Black Panther?

Avatar image for bump1010
#23 Posted by bump1010 (1043 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@bump1010: Who do you count as the best? Captain America? Black Panther?

Those are examples of people among the best. I don't think taskmaster really ever fought black panther outside of being kicked in the face by him during civil war.