Black Alice vs Rune-King Thor and Galactus

Why is everyone so insistent on proving that Lori loses here when she totally isn't going to?

You said two totally different things. Nice try. Anyway, Alice gets slaughtered. Please give me some of her defeating RKT and Galactus level beings and THEN we'll talk.

Lori isn't a popular character - her feats are in all honesty somewhat inconsistent as IIRC Black Canary was able to engage her in combat for quite some time by herself.

Plus - what's the point of a debate if everyone just sides with one character? :)

@nimamindtricks: I didn't contradict myself at all. She drains the characters in front of her first. When a magic-based character became visible she drained that character instead. I appreciate your attempt at debunking me like a big-boy debater but I don't know if you're trying to argue semantics or whatever. Exactly what I said still holds up -- she drains the people next to her. If Thor is right in front of her, she'll drain him. And she did defeat a Thor and Galactus-level being, she beat Spectre. I have no clue what you're trying to prove.

@thetruebarryallen: Alice stomped Canary within seconds... it's only because Simone was writing and it was Canary's book that Lori didn't squish her like a bug. Even then, Canary was wholly unable to physically influence Lori in any way, just talked her into simmering down.

@joygirl: Wasn't Spectre weakened? She stole his powers in that fight but she could hardly control them and Spectre became incorporeal momentarily. He later went on to take out The Wizard. What are you trying to prove? Using your logic, she should have slaughtered house in Day Vengeance. Your wanking is on another level. She is inconsistent, she can hardly control her powers, she's immature, and she's not the greatest combatant. She's toast.

I recall it being longer then seconds - I have the fight somewhere in my scans.. lemme dig it up.

@nimamindtricks: Did you read the book? Lori stole Spectre's powers. She never used them because she didn't have to, he was reduced to a powerless shade but was unable to be killed because he was a concept and without his power he had no form to destroy. She couldn't kill him because he couldn't be killed. Then Spectre went on to kill the Wizard because she eventually gave him his power back, she can't hold it forever.

@thetruebarryallen: Don't bother. Black Alice will eat the universe.

Team.

@thetruebarryallen: They fought twice, the first time Lori just wrapped her up and hung her out to dry. The second time they did fight for a while because Dinah had to make her big "you can get past this" speech.

@joygirl: Yes I did. That feat relied on prep, teamwork, and plot-devices -- all of which she doesn't have here so your logic makes no sense. BA is going to be with her mom very soon.

@nimamindtricks: Prep, teamwork, and plot devices = "Wait 'til Spectre shows up, which he eventually will, and have Lori take care of him." I already gave my logic as to how this fight plays out -- Galactus is slow and doesn't blitz, Thor won't kill a powerless girl. She drains Thor before he can react and kills him with his own hammer. Then she absorbs a more powerful power set like Spectre and throws everything she has at Galactus until he gets blown out.

@joygirl: Just a couple points of clarification:

1. RKT is generally considered to be above Odin, although there aren't any feats to support this conclusion. But this doesn't matter anyway because Odin always gets pwned by Galactus and RKT doesn't have feats to suggest he could beat Galactus either.

2. Galactus is not "slow and stupid." I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Galactus is stupid. I can't actually think of any instance where Galactus is beaten due to CIS. Galactus is almost always beaten because of plot--Dr. Doom stealing is powers, Thanos w/ prep taking his power, being hungry, IG, HotU, UN, Zeus amped by Chaos King, etc. The only time I can think of Galactus being flat out beaten is by Tyrant and the Celestials.

3. Galactus is also not above going for the kill straightaway when it's necessary. When he fought Tyrant they were trying to kill each other straightaway and when Galactus fought the Celestials the first thing he did was one-shot 1 of the 4 he was facing. Galactus really doesn't start off the fight going for the kill unless he's really facing someone on his level, which is actually quite rare. In this instance, Galactus actually knows Thor, and while they aren't exactly pals I don't think Big G would react too kindly to someone killing him.

@uberhikari: 1) Mhm, I already said several times that she could switch away from RKT after she takes it. But it'll be enough to take care of depowered Thor and tank a few hits while she adapts. 2) As for "slow and stupid," I didn't really mean that he was stupid, I'm sure he's a bright lad. I just usually lump the two together as a figure of speech, and since Galactus is generally depicted as rather plodding and slow to react, I called him "slow and stupid" to imply that he probably won't react before Alice power-drains at the speed of thought. 3) I mentioned that Galactus is the only thing I'm really concerned about here. But considering that Spectre went toe-to-toe with Parallax Hal (who would probably wipe the floor with Galactus) and she can drain Spectre's powers, I see her being able to gain enough power to break him down. Plus, as long as she an outlast Galactus (possible by draining Swamp Thing or Phantom Stranger), he will eventually wear himself out until he's weak enough for her to kill.

@joygirl:

1) Mhm, I already said several times that she could switch away from RKT after she takes it. But it'll be enough to take care of depowered Thor and tank a few hits while she adapts.

Tank a few hits? No. Odin was knocked into the Odin Sleep by a headbutt from Galactus; and Galactus was only moderately fed when this happened. Plus, like I said, RKT has no feats to speak of. I don't know why you think RKT (or somebody using RKT's power) would be able to tank anything from Galactus.

2) As for "slow and stupid," I didn't really mean that he was stupid, I'm sure he's a bright lad. I just usually lump the two together as a figure of speech, and since Galactus is generally depicted as rather plodding and slow to react, I called him "slow and stupid" to imply that he probably won't react before Alice power-drains at the speed of thought.

Ok.

3) I mentioned that Galactus is the only thing I'm really concerned about here. But considering that Spectre went toe-to-toe with Parallax Hal (who would probably wipe the floor with Galactus) and she can drain Spectre's powers, I see her being able to gain enough power to break him down. Plus, as long as she an outlast Galactus (possible by draining Swamp Thing or Phantom Stranger), he will eventually wear himself out until he's weak enough for her to kill.

I'm not sure I really understand your position.

First, whose power is Black Alice supposed to be using in this fight? Is she just using all the powers of everybody she ever drained?

Second, my understanding is that Black Alice was never able to use Spectre's power. Is this true?

@uberhikari: I'm not on expert on exactly how Galactus relates to Thor. Still, as I mentioned earlier, she can drain someone like Swamp Thing or Phantom Stranger to make herself more or less kill-proof. She can drain multiple powersets at once and use them simultaneously. As for who she's using -- she can use anyone. That's kinda the beauty of Black Alice is that she frequently switches or upgrades her powerset if the one she's using isn't good enough. She doesn't have to "pick one" because she can switch at will and nobody can prevent her from doing so. Regarding Spectre, she acquired and held his powers for a while, but she never got much of a chance to use them because powerless Spectre was unkillable. She tried to blast Spectre, it just didn't affect him because he was a formless concept.

Black Alice absolutely sucks at using the powers she gets, for the record. Galactus solos.

Swamp Thing isn't magical in nature. He's elemental.

@comicstooge: He sure likes to pretend he's magical, considering that he spends 100% of his time in DC's magic corner. Besides, it's moot since she could use Phantom Stranger instead.

@comicstooge@joygirl@uberhikari "could" and "would" are 2 different things. She has no idea who Galactus is. Hell, knowing her personality, she would probably go for Giganta to grow bigger because of her opponent's size. It will lead to her slaughter. All your responses are based on vast assumptions that she'll go for all the most powerful characters. She has no idea who her opponent's are, and again, she's inconsistent.

@NimaMindTricks: galactus is more powerful than RKT. based on feats. and once she drained him, Thor will not be an issue, and galactus will be already out of the picture,

@van_cere: He is. He's being nerfed big time in this fight because one character can maybe do something amazing by stealing magic from a really powerful magic user - which she has consistently done apparently with plenty of feats to back it up. I guess?

@NimaMindTricks: I imagine you are thinking about that time she took the spectres powers for a few moments because the more powerful the being, the less time she has with the powers, so you guessed right.

@van_cere: Yep and she did nothing important when she had the powers. The team will crush her.

@NimaMindTricks: yeah, it is not like she had anything else to do except kill a concept. and it is not like having power and having a cause to use that power is different.

petty excuses aside, do you have anything else to add?

@joygirl: Maybe he likes the company?

@joygirl: Sorry just asking for clearance shake, so can Black Alice copy power from just about everyone, be it magic or otherwise? That makes up for one unbeatable character in comics.

@killemall: Fairly sure Black Alice can only copy abilities of a magical descent - she couldn't just take Spider-Man's powers or something like that because he got his powers from a scientific accident and isn't any part 'Magic'.

Slowdinson is the weaklink

Let me just point out the obvious:

When Alice takes powers, she leaves the owner without them. So in this case it's just going to be her taking RKT's powers before trying them out on Galactus.

black alice easily, let's not kid ourselves here, neither RKT and Galactus are dov spectre level

Thor can BFR her. He can teleport anywhere in the Universe.

What has she done that will place her on spectres level?

I mean having some ones powers does not place you on that level. Old King thor had Thor force longer than Odin. yet they are not even close to being equals.

Galactus solos

Once she hijacks Spectre's powers set and powers levels, both Galactus and his protege Silver Surfer would be over!

Guess Lord Satanus' powers>>>Spectre's then if we're going to use BA as a benchmark.

I don’t think BA can drain Galactus and if she drains RKT then Galactus just beats up RKT

To be fair, is was the evilness of Satanus's abilities that screwed her up, not the magnitude.

@mylittlefascist: Was it? I don't remember much about it, only that was after Satanus took the commander of Hell from Neron.

Yea, it was the evilness that she couldn't handle. So I'd imagine she'd be able to take the powers of the Vishanti for example, but not Dormammu, Magik, or other characters whose abilities are both complex and naturally corruptive in nature.

Although, if I remember correctly. She herself actually has some sort of "Great Old One" type of entity possessing her to keep her alive and that's where her abilities come from.

MISMATCH!

Black Alice would MURDER both Rune King Thor and Galactus simultaneously with relative ease!

All she needs to do is strip Rune King Thor of his powers, and use it to defeat Galactus with little troubles! Then, turn around and destroy a powerless Thor!

@ivan_jimenez86:

No, Black Alice couldn't control the power of Galactus. When the power becomes to much she is unable to control it , much like what happened when she took Spectre's powers.

@thevoidofdeath: question did trigon gave Raven birth via haveing sex with someone or useing his magical powers ?

She wouldn't need to control all of the powers, RKT > Galan. By draining RKT of all his powers she instantly beats Thor and fights Galan with RKT powers. And Black Alice actually has some more than decent feats in her own righ.

At one point, she was a genuine threat to the DC universe because she was draining all the magic in the universe. All of it!

@youk66: What ? Trigon unfountanely raped Arella Ravens mother , and Raven was born . She inherited his abilities, and was taught by Azarath to control her demonic abilities.

Has she even trouble draining any magic user at any point in time. ?

@thevoidofdeath: damn didn't knew that that's R thing is creepy and disguesting to me even for a Villain