Big Mom Pirates vs Marineford

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Nerise

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The Big Mom Pirates go to Marineford to rescue one of their captives.
At Marineford are the same characters present there and they have the same level of involvement. Ex: Mihawk was fighting fodder dudes, Akainu was facing the Yonko.
Big Mom has all of Totlands soldiers/fighters and ships to her disposal.
All of her children capable of fighting are there
Condition of victory is to rescue the captive and escape with Yonko and said captive.

Rd1: BM has the aid of Luffy and the impel down gang that was Present at Marineford(Jinbei, Crocodile, Ivankov, prisoners)
Rd2: BM is still allied with the Germa and get their help

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ElderElijah190

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#2  Edited By ElderElijah190

They get wasted.

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SocaJunkie

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Marineford win.

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Nerise

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Simon_the_digger

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Marines always win

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Back_stabbath95

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Marines. Big Mom is most dangerous imo when in her own territory but I’d recon her personal homies would be super dangerous there

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kroczilla

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yeah... a lot of viners seem to be sleeping on the big mom pirates. can't say I blame them though given the terrible performance of big mom pirates (mostly due to heavy PIS). However I do believe the big mom pirates have a good chance here.

first of all the marines had three major advantages during the war;

the home/prep advantage

the numbers advantage i.e. no of competent fighters

and most importantly, the fact that whitebeard was ill and well past his prime

all of the above are easily countered by the big mom pirates.

for the first i.e. home advantage, big mom's ability to manipulate souls and possess her entire environment pretty much makes all the prep marineford used against whitebeard useless. the walls they prepared would turn against them, heck the very sea would turn against them. there is also perospero who can turn the seas the candy basically giving the big mom pirates more control over the battle field.

for the second part, apart from the fact that big mom has dozens of children all of whom are shown to be competent fighters (not to mention her sweet commanders who are easily g4 luffy tier), the big mom pirates also have cracker and his biscuit army, each of whom are able to completely embarass post time skip g3 luffy. basically anyone less than an admiral including doffy becomes an instant non factor where cracker is involved. basically only the admirals, garp, sengoku and mihawk will be left to face the big mom pirates and her sweet commanders which brings to the most important factor

unlike whitebeard, big mom is not only in a pretty great shape (relatively speaking) but also is pretty much indestructible. meaning any attack from anyone less than an admiral wouldn't even make her tickle (judge vinsmoke who is easily M3 tier broke his spear trying to hurt her). now obviously whitebeard has the more powerful fruit but big mom has arguably the more dangerous fruit with her ability to manipulate souls and steal stamina. and unlike whitebeard who sat out the beginning of the war, big mom's gonna be going all out from the start. there's also prometheus by her side whom iirc was immune to haki imbued attacks. I personally don't see anyone save a bloodlusted garp taking her down but even if they did, it would definitely take A LOT of effort.

and now for the wild card which all but guarantee big mom pirates the win. Brulee. her ability to teleport through mirrors will reduce the burden of the big mom pirates having to fight through an army to get to their man. Heck she could launch a bushes all over marineford with cracker ' s biscuit army from all over marineford (imagine being invaded from all corners by g3+ lvl soldiers incapable of feeling pain). that alone would cause enough confusion for the big mom pirates to overrun marineford in a blitz attack.

basically big mom's pirates win if they fight smart and utilize their advantage.

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GohanDorado

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@nerise: I feel like mom died when Dog tooth lost. Luffy shouldn't have won that fight. Vice admirals could take out cracker and smoothie lol. Maybe kizaru to one shot Dogtooth and the admirals band together to take out BM in a tough, but contained fight

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Back_stabbath95

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@gohandorado: we haven’t seen her since Katakuri lost what do you mean she died? Lol all we have seen is one panel of her Pursuing FT pirates for the cake. Also if I’m not mistaken the only “competent “ VA was Garp the rest were whatever.

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MaverickMaster

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#10  Edited By MaverickMaster

Big mom will be active immediately in the war, probably taking down or stalemating the 3 admirals by herself, if she has help from kata and cracker, garp and sengoku have no choice but to intervene. Whitebeard sat out from the war for a while before be got involved, im sure Charlotte will immediately take action.

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juiceboks

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#11 juiceboks  Moderator

Charlotte will probably get herself killed off the bat. Akainu has the feats to beat her on his own let alone with help from the other admirals, plus Garp and Sengoku who by hype alone should be well above everyone else.

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decaf_wizard

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#12  Edited By decaf_wizard

@juiceboks said:

Charlotte will probably get herself killed off the bat. Akainu has the feats to beat her on his own let alone with help from the other admirals, plus Garp and Sengoku who by hype alone should be well above everyone else.

This. If all the Admirals plus Garp and Sengoku actually do stuff, the Big Mom Pirates wont stand a chance

They also wont get the Luffy and crew randomly showing up and bringing a bunch of elite fodder, plus Warlord level characters

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SocaJunkie

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Charlotte will probably get herself killed off the bat. Akainu has the feats to beat her on his own let alone with help from the other admirals, plus Garp and Sengoku who by hype alone should be well above everyone else.

Linlin* fam

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deactivated-5adf228fe15c2

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BM Pirates although Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Kizaru, Mihawk might be problems

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YouShallNotPass

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BM Pirates although Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Kizaru, Mihawk might be problems

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KingGuinness

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The Marines win.

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utkanflash

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The Marines with ease

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Nerise

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@nerise: I feel like mom died when Dog tooth lost. Luffy shouldn't have won that fight. Vice admirals could take out cracker and smoothie lol. Maybe kizaru to one shot Dogtooth and the admirals band together to take out BM in a tough, but contained fight

Vice admirals cannot takeout Cracker and Smoothie lol. World Government dont even have Crackers actual Wanted poster which makes me assume that he was rarely taken out of his clone. Kizaru one shot Dogtooth?! wtf. He ran out of his observation haki when Luffy was running away and jumping into mirrors, that was the moment when he lost. And Snakeman isn't a joke. In this instance I feel like both BMs and Katakuris conquerors haki will play a huge role. WB couldn't do it because he was sick

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Necromancetr

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big mom loses horribly

garp , sengoku and akainu can takeout mamma or kuma can send her to sea

doflamingo takes out smoothie

kizaru and aokiji can take out katakuri

some giants can piss on cracker's soldiers and make them weaker then take out cracker

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Uryuishidasama

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I think big mom pirates got this way more versatility big mom just needs to send Zeus and Prometheus taking out all the fodder in one swoop including the vice admiral leaving the three admiral and senguku and garp and I think cracker will play a big factor with his biscuit army I think big mom wins nobody can even scratch her apart from may be akainu or garp.

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Omega_kai

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BM both rounds.

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SkySanji

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They will do way better than Whitebeard's crew due to them having to Conquerors Haki users that can just get rid of the fodder and Cracker making Gear 3/Semi Gear 4 Level soldiers but in the end they will still lose check out King of Lightning'speed video on this topic if your interested.

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RuthlessKiller

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#24  Edited By RuthlessKiller
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BrownZeus

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for reference on what @skysanji meant here's the video.

Loading Video...

KOL makes a really compelling case here, I really want to back Marines here but wouldnt be easy regardless.

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Goplop11

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I feel like you're all sleeping on her soul pocus.

If her enemies are afraid of her at all, she can intantly kill them. We know from the sun pirates that she can perform this on many people at once(there doesn't seem to be a limit).

As i see it, the fight would go like this. Big mom shows up. They do some talking, big mom uses the soul pocus killing all the people who fear her. Then she attacks. The deciding question is, who is affected?

I feel like the best way to guess who the soul pocus would affect would be to see who her conquerors haki would affect. But keep in mind this is not accurate, it could be more, it could be less, we are talking about fear.

I would say anyone below rear admiral level would die instantly.

This would leave the warlords, the rear and vice admirals and the admirals(plus a couple others who don't quite fit) this amounts to, at most 100 fighters vs the big mom crew. All of them strong, though much like against whitebeard, only the warlords and admirals would be of any real note.

This isn't even factoring in her other abilities or her crews strength or the help she'll get from luffy and friends. against big mom and her fleet, the marines would surely lose. No question.

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Enemybird

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Big Mom has not been wounded by anyone in combat so far and she fought Kaido to a standstill after several days. Who is actually capable of stoping this monster? If Kaido couldn't, what the hell makes you think Sakazuki can?

Cracker and create a limitless amount soldiers that can easily withstand gear 3 attacks from Post timeskip Luffy. His contribution is being underrated

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Earendill

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#29  Edited By Earendill

Marineford stomps. Again.

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Aeneas100

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#30  Edited By Aeneas100

I'd side with the big mom pirates.

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God-Thanatos1

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BM pirates win

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Woodward

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The World Strongest Man and Yonko crew got massacred by the Navy. There is no way an inferior crew will do any better. Aokiji and Akainu are enough.

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Floridaman29

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BM pirates both rounds probably

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CocaColaMan

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If Whitebeard couldn't beat the Admirals, you near about have to be making headcanon to say Big Mom stands a chance of it. Not to mention Garp (an actual WB tier fighter,) Sengoky, and Mihawk.

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AnimeFreak1

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If Whitebeard couldn't beat the Admirals, you near about have to be making headcanon to say Big Mom stands a chance of it. Not to mention Garp (an actual WB tier fighter,) Sengoku, and Mihawk.

This

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alextheboss

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@cocacolaman said:

If Whitebeard couldn't beat the Admirals, you near about have to be making headcanon to say Big Mom stands a chance of it. Not to mention Garp (an actual WB tier fighter,) Sengoku, and Mihawk.

This

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Uryuishidasama

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@woodward: here is where the issue comes in you really think whitebeard shitty crew is better than big moms own.you must be joking.

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Enemybird

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@woodward said:

The World Strongest Man and Yonko crew got massacred by the Navy. There is no way an inferior crew will do any better. Aokiji and Akainu are enough.

The strongest man wasn't anywhere near as tough as Big Mom now was he? Getting knocked back by fodder marines and canon fire. His defense was embarrassing for a yonko. He was a shell of his former self and it clearly showed.

Big Mom on the other hand is still a tank who recently fought Kaido and walked away practically unharmed. Which of the Marines can you say will be able to not only match that but surpass Kaido's fighting ability? Garp? We don't know how much power he lost. WB had 14 commanders but with Cracker, the BM pirates basically have an infinite amount.

We saw Kuzan's devil fruit nullified by Ace's fire. Well BM has a ball of fire with a piece of her soul in it. No reason to think he is a threat to BM.

The only marines who can handle commanders are the admirals, Garp, and Sengoku. But Sengoku didnt seem to be able to do much against the BB pirates and they were aruguably weaker than commander level at the time of the War. The BM pirates may be inferior in terms of sheer numbers with other allied pirate crews but with a healthy Yonko and cracker spamming soldiers, they can easily turn the tables in ways WB's crew couldn't.

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JDogg

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BM crew wins unless Garp decides to participate.

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DeathHero61

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@juiceboks said:

Charlotte will probably get herself killed off the bat. Akainu has the feats to beat her on his own let alone with help from the other admirals, plus Garp and Sengoku who by hype alone should be well above everyone else.

This. If all the Admirals plus Garp and Sengoku actually do stuff, the Big Mom Pirates wont stand a chance

They also wont get the Luffy and crew randomly showing up and bringing a bunch of elite fodder, plus Warlord level characters

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Enemybird

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@decaf_wizard said:
@juiceboks said:

Charlotte will probably get herself killed off the bat. Akainu has the feats to beat her on his own let alone with help from the other admirals, plus Garp and Sengoku who by hype alone should be well above everyone else.

This. If all the Admirals plus Garp and Sengoku actually do stuff, the Big Mom Pirates wont stand a chance

They also wont get the Luffy and crew randomly showing up and bringing a bunch of elite fodder, plus Warlord level characters

Nobody knows how strong Garp or Sengoku are currently. They could be just as fail as WB was. BB mentioned that they were getting old to both of them during the war. (not sure if that statement was anime only but you get the idea). It will take nothing short of several days to stop Big Mom. I doubt anything less than a serious admiral can even harm her and that is being exetemly generous as she has only been defeated by prime garp and Roger when she wasn't even in her prime. Nobody knows what it will actually take to stop her right now. She went toe to toe with the current strongest in the verse and was fine day later. Until we see more from the Marines, BM takes it.

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Enemybird

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@socajunkie: I need your current take on this. The arguments here suck lol

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juiceboks

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#43  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

@enemybird:

Nobody knows how strong Garp or Sengoku are currently. They could be just as fail as WB was

Which would make no sense considering the reasons for Edward's atrophy were laid out plain and clear for us, and neither Garp or Sengoku suffered from such conditions pre-timeskip.

BB mentioned that they were getting old to both of them during the war

A clear taunt by someone who has demonstrated nothing less than blatant disrespect for the Old Guard. Teach taunted Whitebeard as well but ended up begging for his life after Edward stepped to him.

It will take nothing short of several days to stop Big Mom

There's at least two people at Marineford that can arguably beat her on their own while every other member of her crew is fodder to them. The gap between her and everyone else would need to be massive for such a drawn out fight.

I doubt anything less than a serious admiral can even harm her

Agreed good thing there are 5 of them plus Mihawk to face her.

she has only been defeated by prime garp and Roger when she wasn't even in her prime

Even assuming the fall of the Rocks Pirates was their prime, she had the backing of at least 4 Yonko-tier characters. In actuality we don't have enough context to say whether this is a good showing for her or not or exactly how much she grew since then.

Nobody knows what it will actually take to stop her right now

A similar statement could be made for Garp.

She went toe to toe with the current strongest in the verse and was fine day later

Why is stalemating Kaido for a relatively short while for high tiers above Garp's capabilities? Or even Sengoku's?

Until we see more from the Marines, BM takes it.

Linlin has done nothing to say she could undoubtedly beat Garp on her own let alone with the assistance of three admirals, Sengoku and Mihawk.

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Tektonic

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#44  Edited By Tektonic

At first glance I would back Marineford, but reading the strategy for the BM pirates actually makes it more debatable, they have some really versatile users on their side, compared to the Whitebeard Pirates.

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kgb725

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@cocacolaman said:

If Whitebeard couldn't beat the Admirals, you near about have to be making headcanon to say Big Mom stands a chance of it. Not to mention Garp (an actual WB tier fighter,) Sengoku, and Mihawk.

This

Whitebeard decimated Akainu and Kizaru was nullified by Marco. You're overestimating the admirals who barely fought in the war and none of them are nearly as strong as her. Katakuri isnt going to be trapped with sea stone because of future sight and Luffy can take out Garp. Mihawk isnt going to do anything and Sengoku barely moved until BB showed up

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CocaColaMan

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@kgb725: He may have done a lot of work on Akainu and was obviously superior, but in the end, none of the Admirals died. Whitebeard did. Edward winning the battle didn’t win him the war. So, if Whitebeard couldn’t win the war, why would Oda write the Big Mom pirates winning?

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Enemybird

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@enemybird:

Nobody knows how strong Garp or Sengoku are currently. They could be just as fail as WB was

Which would make no sense considering the reasons for Edward's atrophy were laid out plain and clear for us, and neither Garp or Sengoku suffered from such conditions pre-timeskip.

BB mentioned that they were getting old to both of them during the war

A clear taunt by someone who has demonstrated nothing less than blatant disrespect for the Old Guard. Teach taunted Whitebeard as well but ended up begging for his life after Edward stepped to him.

It will take nothing short of several days to stop Big Mom

There's at least two people at Marineford that can arguably beat her on their own while every other member of her crew is fodder to them. The gap between her and everyone else would need to be massive for such a drawn out fight.

I doubt anything less than a serious admiral can even harm her

Agreed good thing there are 5 of them plus Mihawk to face her.

she has only been defeated by prime garp and Roger when she wasn't even in her prime

Even assuming the fall of the Rocks Pirates was their prime, she had the backing of at least 4 Yonko-tier characters. In actuality we don't have enough context to say whether this is a good showing for her or not or exactly how much she grew since then.

Nobody knows what it will actually take to stop her right now

A similar statement could be made for Garp.

She went toe to toe with the current strongest in the verse and was fine day later

Why is stalemating Kaido for a relatively short while for high tiers above Garp's capabilities? Or even Sengoku's?

Until we see more from the Marines, BM takes it.

Linlin has done nothing to say she could undoubtedly beat Garp on her own let alone with the assistance of three admirals, Sengoku and Mihawk.

I dont know how to respond point by point like you did so forgive me if the thread looks wonky.

1. Garp has zero feats in the present. You are relying solely on what he was capable of in his prime which is unfair. WB, Garp and Sengoku are all older as BB pointed out. it was WB's age that was the pimary reason for his lost. Eveyone kept saying it. Garp even mentioned that he lost strength when he was throwing cannon balls at Luffy in Water 7. You have to accept that he isnt in his prime anymore. Im not saying he is weak but i'm not willing to say he can take down a yonko who has actually shown relevant feats to strongly suggest otherwise.

2. No.. there is nobody at MF who could beat BM on their own. Kaido couldn't do it and he is the strongest creature in the verse right now. Not only that, Kaido has a Zoan DF which makes him more deadly at cqc, plus he is known for beating anyone 1v1 and BM STILL stalemated him. No reason to think anyone at MF can match that with their lack of feats. Sakazuki was beat the hell up put in the dirt and BFR'ed by WB who had already been through hell. I just dont see anyone putting down BM.

3. I realize that and they will all need to focus on BM to stop her. It wont be easy either. Dont forget that this isnt BM Vs the entire navy. Cracker's contribution in this scenario is practically unparalleled. a single biscuit solider is more powerful than 99% of the marines and all of the warlords except Mihawk.

4. Wasnt Garp damaged by captain morgan? sorry for the lowball but clearly he doesnt have the iron skin that Kaido and BM have. The axe wouldnt shattered on either of them.

5. BM was not Yonko tier when she was in the Rocks pirates.

6. BM fought Kaido for days. that isn't a short period.

7. BM doesnt have to beat them all at once. Thats not fair, WB never had to fight them all at once. 1v1 none of them are taking BM easily if at all. Until we see more, BM will crush them. im sorry.

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kgb725

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@cocacolaman: The point was to get Ace and leave which they can accomplish here. Whitebeard was just too old at that point to win

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CocaColaMan

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@kgb725: If Whitebeard couldn't save Ace and win, what makes you think Big Mom, an inferior Yonko, would?

Whitebeard being old doesn't matter. He's still arguably the most powerful character we've seen so far.

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kgb725

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@kgb725: If Whitebeard couldn't save Ace and win, what makes you think Big Mom, an inferior Yonko, would?

Whitebeard being old doesn't matter. He's still arguably the most powerful character we've seen so far.

The only objective was to save Ace and they did that.

He was having heart attacks, was slower , and couldnt use haki