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#1 Edited by Glabal500 (922 posts) - - Show Bio

both have m-16, side arm and a knife

who is the superior soldier?

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#2 Posted by LeonardoTMNT (2794 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Big Boss for the majority

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#3 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

Big Boss is better.

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#4 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@tim_drake4444 said:

Going with Big Boss for the majority

@nickzambuto said:

Big Boss is better.

Ow, damn, I think I just cut myself a bit for going against the grain.

Oh well, I think it could go either way.

Punisher is is also well establish super Human as Big Boss is by feats. Punisher has been punched by Spider Man so hard, he flew 6 stories in the air, and caught the ledge of a building before. He has been punched all out by a near 100 toner girl in the stomach and lived.

Punisher durability is clearly super human as well strength. He is also a very capable fighter, not as good as Big Boss who uses CQC, but pretty good.

Accuracy feats? Punisher is far better shot, he has shot the web shooters off Spider Man.

Big Boss in now way is superior enough to Punisher in anything but Close Combat and Punisher is superior Marksmen. Stat wise they are close.

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#5 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@tim_drake4444 said:

Going with Big Boss for the majority

@nickzambuto said:

Big Boss is better.

Ow, damn, I think I just cut myself a bit for going against the grain.

Oh well, I think it could go either way.

Punisher is is also well establish super Human as Big Boss is by feats. Punisher has been punched by Spider Man so hard, he flew 6 stories in the air, and caught the ledge of a building before. He has been punched all out by a near 100 toner girl in the stomach and lived.

Punisher durability is clearly super human as well strength. He is also a very capable fighter, not as good as Big Boss who uses CQC, but pretty good.

Accuracy feats? Punisher is far better shot, he has shot the web shooters off Spider Man.

Big Boss in now way is superior enough to Punisher in anything but Close Combat and Punisher is superior Marksmen. Stat wise they are close.

The only "super human" thing about Punisher is his durability, and that's still not on par with Snake, who actually has an excuse to be classified as super human. We can't just go throwing that word around whenever a character does something impressive. Punisher has no enhancements, therefore he is not "super" human. His super-high end durability feats might be a match for Snake, but that's it. Speed, strength, stamina, even healing - Big Boss is in a different league than Punisher in all these categories.

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#6 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@tim_drake4444 said:

Going with Big Boss for the majority

@nickzambuto said:

Big Boss is better.

Ow, damn, I think I just cut myself a bit for going against the grain.

Oh well, I think it could go either way.

Punisher is is also well establish super Human as Big Boss is by feats. Punisher has been punched by Spider Man so hard, he flew 6 stories in the air, and caught the ledge of a building before. He has been punched all out by a near 100 toner girl in the stomach and lived.

Punisher durability is clearly super human as well strength. He is also a very capable fighter, not as good as Big Boss who uses CQC, but pretty good.

Accuracy feats? Punisher is far better shot, he has shot the web shooters off Spider Man.

Big Boss in now way is superior enough to Punisher in anything but Close Combat and Punisher is superior Marksmen. Stat wise they are close.

The only "super human" thing about Punisher is his durability, and that's still not on par with Snake, who actually has an excuse to be classified as super human. We can't just go throwing that word around whenever a character does something impressive. Punisher has no enhancements, therefore he is not "super" human. His super-high end durability feats might be a match for Snake, but that's it. Speed, strength, stamina, even healing - Big Boss is in a different league than Punisher in all these categories.

Batman is not super Human, nor is Wolverine by Bio. But both have Meta Human feats. same with Punisher. He is "Consistent" Meta Human in Durability, Reaction Time, and Accuracy.

I seen nothing from Big Boss that beats Punisher in any stats but maybe Running Speed. What feats does Big Boss have over Punisher who grappled with Spider Man and Daredevil? What Reaction Feat big Boss has over Frank who is fast enough to hang with Daredevil, Bullseye, and many more?

I think you ignoring the "Consistent" feats of Punisher here.

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#7 Posted by KingAres109 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wow...You going against Big Boss??Snake pops..Lol..Kudos to you.

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#8 Edited by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wow...You going against Big Boss??Snake pops..Lol..Kudos to you.

Not going against Big Boss, I just saying a very close match, 50/50 for me.

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#9 Edited by Wolverine008 (51027 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wolverine is a level 4 low level superhuman according to almost all his official bios of today.

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#10 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@cadencev2 said:

@tim_drake4444 said:

Going with Big Boss for the majority

@nickzambuto said:

Big Boss is better.

Ow, damn, I think I just cut myself a bit for going against the grain.

Oh well, I think it could go either way.

Punisher is is also well establish super Human as Big Boss is by feats. Punisher has been punched by Spider Man so hard, he flew 6 stories in the air, and caught the ledge of a building before. He has been punched all out by a near 100 toner girl in the stomach and lived.

Punisher durability is clearly super human as well strength. He is also a very capable fighter, not as good as Big Boss who uses CQC, but pretty good.

Accuracy feats? Punisher is far better shot, he has shot the web shooters off Spider Man.

Big Boss in now way is superior enough to Punisher in anything but Close Combat and Punisher is superior Marksmen. Stat wise they are close.

The only "super human" thing about Punisher is his durability, and that's still not on par with Snake, who actually has an excuse to be classified as super human. We can't just go throwing that word around whenever a character does something impressive. Punisher has no enhancements, therefore he is not "super" human. His super-high end durability feats might be a match for Snake, but that's it. Speed, strength, stamina, even healing - Big Boss is in a different league than Punisher in all these categories.

Batman is not super Human, nor is Wolverine by Bio. But both have Meta Human feats. same with Punisher. He is "Consistent" Meta Human in Durability, Reaction Time, and Accuracy.

I seen nothing from Big Boss that beats Punisher in any stats but maybe Running Speed. What feats does Big Boss have over Punisher who grappled with Spider Man and Daredevil? What Reaction Feat big Boss has over Frank who is fast enough to hang with Daredevil, Bullseye, and many more?

I think you ignoring the "Consistent" feats of Punisher here.

Perhaps in the real world. But neither Punisher nor Batman have ever performed a single feat that is not consistent with what most comic books have established as the "peak human" limit. Everyone tanks 100 tonner hits at some point, Punisher's durability really isn't all that special. It's his endurance that sets him apart from everybody else.

And if you're going to use his many instances of fighting Spidey and Daredevil as a testament to Frank's reaction time, I'm afraid you'll need to post specific instances, because all those fights are VERY dependent on context. Yes, it's true that Punisher does fight those characters - but said fights are not as simple as you're making them out to be. There's always some context to them. If we get into specifics, Punisher is said to be stronger than Daredevil but that's it. Matt borderline speedblitzed him. Spider-Man HAS speedblitzed him - several times! Overall, his showings against the two scarlet-clad vigilantes aren't really ever a testament to his reaction time.

I really don't think I need to go over Big Boss's speed. You should be more than familiar with his multiple instances of bullet timing and even outpacing automatic turret fire in Peace Walker. The man damn near beat Null to death with his bare hands. He DID beat Gene to death. Those are two characters on par with Daredevil and Spider-Man respectively, only Snake didn't have a whole arsenal, days of prep, environmental factors, or any other context to aid him. He just straight up bare-knuckle brawled them, it's as clear cut as that.

Strength is a bit closer but Snake should pull the edge with his striking feats. Killing various super humans like I mentioned for one, Colonel Volgin in particular, whom Snake left in an unconscious heap on the floor with massive internal bleeding. Big Boss is the strongest human in the whole series, and in MGSV he seems to have only gotten stronger. The Ground Zeroes demo shows him literally lifting a full grown man straight over his head, and then hurling the soldier at his comrade hard enough to KO them both. It's pretty lulzy when you think about it.

Hand to hand combat skill is a no-brainer; Boss literally INVENTED close quarters combat, and he's known for going up against opponent's vastly superior to him with no advantage besides his training and experience. In a straight H2H showdown, I see this as heading in the same direction as Frank's many encounters with Captain America.

If Punisher has one advantage, it's marksmanship, which is offsetted by Snake's speed and penchant for stealth, not to mention his own more than formidable gun skill. Tactics are another matter to discuss, but personally I'm fine with calling them even on that front.

It may not be a stomp, but I just don't see any advantage that Punisher can really push against a character like Big Boss. Snake isn't held back by the same moral constraints as guys like Daredevil and Peter Parker, and he's savvy enough to counter any clever ploys or tricks that Frank tries to employ. With the Punisher's usual two key advantages gone, he won't have anything to rely on but his marksmanship. A bit of sneaky sneaky here, a few claymores there, boom Snake wins.

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#11 Posted by slimj87d (15637 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty tough. Punisher is also an amazing sniper being capable of making a shot I think 5 miles away or more. It might be close to even.

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#12 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wolverine is a level 4 low level superhuman according to almost all his official bios of today.

His feats put him around there too at times. So I accept that now. Back in the 80s, I would accepted Enhance Human much like Batman or Captain America feats are around. Now and days his own official Bios clearly show Superhuman, so it is no longer arguable.

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#13 Posted by Pokergeist (23177 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Agree to disagree here. I say 50/50 fight.

@slimj87d said:

This is pretty tough. Punisher is also an amazing sniper being capable of making a shot I think 5 miles away or more. It might be close to even.

Yup.

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#14 Edited by chanceNathan (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Big Boss is the victor.

training: big boss in the respect CQC was exlusive to CIA black ops not military black ops. honestly to put CIA against a military soldier... CIA is going to win.

• big boss - CIA, co-creator of CQC which was designed to be a superior fighting style. expert in stealth and tactical espionage.

• punisher - Marine , learned multiple martial arts. black ops soldier.

weapons: Big Boss in respect BOTH are master marksman. the difference is made in my observations of how they use their weapons (as described below). both use a vast aray of weapons and explosives.

• big boss - uses both handguns and knives in combination in a way that he can attack at medium range fire fights and close range hand to hand. given the way he holds them in combination gives a more acurate shot.

• punisher - offten times is shown duel wielding two firearms (mostly handguns and SMGs). this tactic is good for putting a lot of rounds down range but not acuracy. though when he isnt duel wielding he does have great acuracy.

equipment: equal i dont really need to go into details but both use military equipment but big boss does get creative with his boxes.

armor: punisher

• big boss - though armor isnt standard on the off chance he finds it he uses it. but its usualy just a vest

• punisher - his armor is basically standard. in comics its an actual suit made of kevlar. but in the punisher war zone movie its a vest with collar, yolk, shoulder, and groin coverage.

special: big boss

• big boss - excelent in camoflauge and disguise. incredible pain tollorence. backed by a full army.

• punisher - excelent in camoflauge and disguise. incredible pain tollorence. often works alone but on occation has assistance from a few people.