Beyonders vs Earth-4321 Thanos

vs.

Rules:

1. This is both Beyonders and Earth-4321 Thanos at their strongest without any injuries.
2. Beyonders reveals their true form; whereas Thanos possess the Heart of the Universe.
3. All-on-1 death battle.
4. No interference or holding back allowed.

Location:

Anywhere in Multiverse, let the death battle between those that killed Living Tribunal vs he who absorbed Living Tribunal begin!

All Marvel Threads:

@kokemabb200@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf@jaycool2@vooon@oceanmaster21

Thanos:

@dondave@killemall@hellionvulcan@cheesesticks@nighthunder@homicidalmaniac@king_stranglehold_da_first@serrure@thor_parker82@hulkage@comicdu

Marvel Cinematic Universe:

@pokeysteve@pope052@lukehero@fallschirmjager@stupid_people@sophia89@zearing@jackjack390@dreadpool10@emperorthanos@floopay@ouroborik@americanspeeddemon@pipxeroth@nerdchore@thenaughtytitan@the_real_seaman@spector_rand@kcminato@indomitableregal@wastelandman@jiraiya_sageofoil@zill0678@darth_wayne@wispymatt@kingcurry30@gainz@sergeant-rl3@foxerdes @the_wspanialy@thorthunder98@xerolot@demohardt@larcadedragneel@blackspidey2099@chronicplane@jedixman@vooon@the_fub@geekryan@kevd4wg@conner_wol

Been done 100 times with more powerful versions of the beyonders. Thanos.

@godsvileanddarkwing: Interesting battle, but in spite of the Universal designations that Thanks is actually 616 Thanos as it is mentioned numerous times in canon to 616 works

I still think HoTU is canon, it's essential to his characterization and referenced in important canon stories

@kevd4wg: Wasn't it stated as "not canon"

HotU Thanos wins.

HOTU is not canon only according to one Executive Producer and Wikipedia. All other sources of info state it is canon.

Anyway, it is impossible to say who wins here as both characters were stated to be completely Omnipotent and both have feats that surpass both the Abstracts and Living Tribunal in power and yet both were still taken down via plot. I have no idea who wins.

HOTU is canon, objectively. I mean the scan in the OP itself is literally a 616 comic referencing HOTU.

Also yeah no way to tell who wins really.

"The End" comics as a whole were stated to be non-canon, however all other the end comics are in obvious non-canon alternate futures, whereas Marvel Universe: The End fits perfectly within to continuity, is needed for Thanos vol 1(the setup for Annihilation), and overall doesn't share many similarities with other "The End" comics.

Bump.

Beyonders. Thanos literally had one percent of TOAA's power or something with his Heart of the Universe amp.

Hyperions junk looks impressive in that pic.

So basically HOTU Thanos vs Beyonders thread with a different name?

Been done.

Bump.

@diarrhearegatta: 1% of infinite is still infinite. Tbeyomders had to actualy do battle with the LT, thanos dealt with the LT and all of the rest of marvel with just a thought. He did it way easier, so I’d say he wins.

Gay

We now know Starlin doesn't think TOAA is infinite

@kevd4wg: who wins this in your opinion ?

HoTU Thanos is still canon, it has been referenced in multiple canon arcs. With that said, Thanos blinks them out of existence.

Bump.

This is literally just another BEEN DONE thread.

Weren't we all discussing HOTU vs Beyonders in some fashion the other day in the form of HOTU vs God Doom? That was basically just a HOTU vs Beyonders.... This essentially the same thread.

Thanos certainly defeated LT and the rest of the abstracts MUCH easier but I wouldn't say he did it in a thought.

But HOTU stomps. HOTU as anyone reasonable knows is still canon, despite what Author Statements say.

how is hotu canon ? just curious

Its been referenced by Thanos numerous times since it happened. Basically every story Starlin has written since then has referenced it.

@spambot: thanks for the answer bro

Not really universal at best. He took out the LT then destroyed either one universe or all universes. So I mean he's really universal at bare minimum. Possibly megaversal.

@spambot: He's Universal when it comes to range, his powers didn't exceed his Universe and at the end of the arc, he only destroyed his own Universe which he clearly mentions quite a few times in the same issue. He's definitely Multiversal in terms of raw power and can definitely be scaled off to LT and other Multiversal abstracts he absorbed. I don't know what Megaversal is but he's definitely easily Multiversal and could be a bit above Multiversal in terms of raw power.

I think its quite debatable whether he only destroyed one universe. I think it would take an answer from Starlin to determine for sure. Regardless universal would be his bare minimum power level.

I vote Thanos, but I will add the disclaimer that this is not an informed opinion.

didnt weaker version thanos with snap of finger wiped away half of everything?? that feat is better than anything beyonder has shown. (LT didnt wanna intervene against Thanos either)

@spambot: is hotu more powerful than someone like pre retcon beyonder ?

@spambot: It's not really debatable whatsoever.

He confirms it in the last issue.

He confirms it a couple of times prior to this panel as well.

@rampagethefirst: I tend to agree that it points more toward him having destroyed his own universe but given the overall language used after Thanos absorbed the hotu and him having destroyed the LT I think there is some rationale that he could have destroyed all universes. It would seem it was within his power to do so and he says himself he kept going until no possible threats remained to him. I don't really care either way. So its a matter more of whether he could perceive the other universes so as to bother destroying them.

Marvel and DC have historically interchanged Universe with Multiverse, and uses the word Dimension to mean many things making it almost impossible to be truly honest about what they mean all the time when they use such words.

The problem is that you don't know when Universe means "All of Existence" or if it is just 1 Space Time Continuum or a normal Universe. Or if dimension means a normal Universe or a pocket Universe or a Higher Spatio Temporal Dimension in Extradimensional String Theory Physics.

Example.

One such issue is that in Dark Knights Metal, Hypertime (which was supposed to be a codeword for Multiverse) was literally returned as a normal 5 Dimensional Multiverse but then it was stated to be outside the Multiverse. Which doesn't make any sense. Unless Multiverse in that context only means the 52. To which the same other stories use Multiverse to mean everything in the Source Wall. Then DC randomly changes the meaning of Multiverse from everything below the Newly Retconned Multiversal Source Wall, to just the Orrerry, or just the 52 Universes or a local Multiverse group. Because of such random flip flop confusion of writer terminology, it's difficult to gauge characters.

Marvel has this same issue.

@spambot: Yeah, after he absorbed HoTU, he said he could feel everything in his reality and he could control every aspect of his reality. I don't think he could've destroyed other Universes since it's clearly in the name Heart of the "Universe" and he destroyed all possible threats in his own Universe.

Though in the comic I think the actual name Starlin used for it was Heart of the Infinite.

@spambot: He used both.

HOTI STOMPS,STOP THIS MADNESS.

@rampagethefirst: On Panel Thanos Absorbed the Multiverse, and this was certified in the Official Marvel Bio.

@thevoidofdeath: I stand correct, it was a singular Universe that Thanos had absorbed. Not saying it makes his feat any less impressive, it's just that, most people think he absorbed the Omniverse or Multiverse, just clearing that part up and I do think he wins this battle fairly easily.

Unless you're talking about another instance where it explicitly states he absorbed the Multiverse, can I please have scans of that?

People sometimes mistake Universe for Multiverse, considering how grand Thanos' feats were in this specific arc but I can assure you, he never absorbed anything more than a Universe.

@rampagethefirst said:

@thevoidofdeath: I stand corrected, it was a singular Universe that Thanos had absorbed. Not saying it makes his feat any less impressive, it's just that, most people think he absorbed the Omniverse or Multiverse, just clearing that part up and I do think he wins this battle fairly easily.

Unless you're talking about another instance where it explicitly states he absorbed the Multiverse, can I please have scans of that?

People sometimes mistake Universe for Multiverse, considering how grand Thanos' feats were in this specific arc but I can assure you, he never absorbed anything more than a Universe.

exactly this.

Bump.

Thanos iMO.

You see writers DO historically interchangeably use Universe to Multiverse. Many times.

This is because the average reader is not so keen or experienced on comprehending the idea of a Multiverse, if you tell the average joe bloke "Multiverse" sometimes they don't know what hell that means. They're like "wut"? Or at least some of them.

While the term Universe excites more of the idea of "EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE" formally in our normative culture since Universe is more known. In real life, Universe means everything in existence, not a local time space, 1 out of an Infinity of existence in a Multiverse... Universe in real life means EVERYTHING. Since everything we know is just this vast Universe. It gets the point across better sometimes to use Universe to mean everything than Multiverse.

So writers tend to use the word Universe more often than Multiverse to describe a totality of existence.

That doesn't mean HOTU absorbed the Multiverse, and every mention of Universe means Multiverse. I totally agree, but we have to know WHY writers use Universe then Multiverse and know when what means what. So we can get a better understanding in future discussions.

Some fictions that have Multiverses never even use the word Multiverse, but rather they say that a Single Universe has Infinite Timelines inside it. Their word for Multiverse is a Universe and their word for Universe is a Timeline.

You have to understand the context decently and critically when we use these words.

Factual. Looks incredible.

Bump.

It's officially not canon but read this out, this should give you a clear picture. I

Honestly, if you take a step back and see how things work inside a comicbook company, the editor normally has the right to say okay this story is allowed to impact our continuity and this isnt. A story that affects continuity = canon , one that does not is non canon. Pretty straight forward right.

What happened was Jim Starlin wrote the story and he wrote it with every intention of it being canon. He has talked about it in interview as well as referenced it in his Thanos solo story, which of course is written by Starlin himself. In fact, Jim actually took that story as a motivating point changing Thanos's character, who had for the next story gone back to being merely anti-hero as opposed to full blown villain ( before it was ignored again!). So the story did have an impact on continuity so it makes sense to consider it canon.

To break it down, when Jim wrote the story it was meant to be canon BUT at the end of the day, whether a story is considered cannon or not depends on what the Editors of the story judge it to be. The person who has most say on it is the one who is inchange of publishing ( Tom Brevroot even if many dont like him). The editors, on our case, were 1) Tom Brevroot and 2) Joe Quesada. Turns out both were of them thought it was non-canon because it was meant to be a The End story ( all The End series, and there are few in marvel, are all meant to be non-canon).

------------------

Summarising again :

1) The writer wanted the story to be canon

2) the Editor did not

At the end of the day, whether you like it or not, it is the Editor who has a say on whether the story is consider canon

-----------------

But that leaves us with some issues. Jim actually referenced The End story on a canon series, Thanos solo series (volume 1). He also directly tied the ending of a non canon story with a canon one. So what could they do.

Well if you look at Marvel Bio 2006, It actually has something interesting , it says HOTU took place in an alternate universe but something similar happened in 616. This was just done because of conflicting info. so they lame cop out of saying

"look this was not meant to be canon but we messed up so can you guys plz ignore all those references"

As time went on, people forgot about this, but the official stance on this, from the person who matter, is that the story is not canon.

Makes sense?

So officially not canon but clearly represented as one which leads to an endless debate.