Beta ray bill runs the DC Gauntlet

Pre new 52

Bill is Bloodlusted, Morals on for Dc

He’s healed after every battle

Random encounter, No bfr,

1. Batman And Deathstroke

2. Aquaman And Aqualad

3. Cyborg and Starfire

4. Firestorm Jason

5. Donna Troy

6. Killowog

7. Wonder Woman

8. Superman

9. Orion

10. Martian Manhunter

7/8.

In this scenario he stops at 8.

Stops at 9

10

people are sleeping on my boy Kilowag, huh?

if he doesn't stop BRB then Wonder Woman might.

He stops at 7 or 8. Bill should be more powerful than Diana but her speed might be too much. I don’t see him getting past Superman.

@itouchedtheboat: How on Earth does Wonder Woman stop him???

Wog makes him a poozer

It's a solid 50/50 between her superior speed and his superior strength. Morals on means nothing considering most of the time Wonder Woman doesn't really care. Plus in-character Wonder Woman usually utilizes her lasso to hold her opponent if she realizes she cannot take him in a square fight

@itouchedtheboat:

It's a solid 50/50 between her superior speed

she doesn't have superior speed though, I'm pretty sure

Plus in-character Wonder Woman usually utilizes her lasso to hold her opponent if she realizes she cannot take him in a square fight

and stronger characters have shown they can easily get out of it, plus a lasso ain't doing anything Bill can just do this

EDIT: Speed showings

Fought Silver Surfer in hyperspace(Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #1)

while going MFTL is able to weave and bob himself through several energy attacks(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #2)

observes Silver Surfer going several times lightspeed for a decent amount of time(Cosmic Powers Unlimited)

he can a millisecond in real-world times to an hour(Cosmic Powers Unlimited #3 or 4, I don't have the scan)

He's consistently kept up with Stardust who's casual picoseconds in combat speed

If it was morals off. With her morals on and Beta Ray bill with morals off only leads to a planet busting attack by BRB.

Although she does have her sword and her lasso and her gauntlets. If Wonder Woman was morals off then a case can be made for her.

EDIT: Also Wonder Woman definitely has the speed advantage, there might be some misconceptions about what a effective speedblitz looks like, it all boils down to feats anyway.

8

Unlike Thor, Bill has FTL Combat Speed. Stops at 9 IMO.

@empressofdread: Yeah, he could end the fight with a planet busting attack, but that is assuming they are even fighting on a planet. Also, I think that Wonder Woman could probably avoid a planet busting attack if Bill tried to do it.

He stops at 8 or 9

Im gonna say he stops at Orion, especially bloodlusted. Diana would probably give him a harder fight than Clark in this scenario but he takes both 7/10 imo.

@kanyecosby: This is BRB though, he does not have low showings like Thor, has a legit planet busting feat with planetary durability to top that. In character Wonder Woman's speed could give him some trouble but its out of character for Wonder Woman to use her sword offensively. But since BRB is bloodlusted he will go with his utmost firepower first which is a planet busting attack. All he has to do is ram into Wonder Woman with his Stormbreaker and unleash planet busting power. BRB is not Thor, BRB is >> Thor.

@empressofdread: She withstood 3 infinite mass punches and was still standing. I don't thing a planet busting hit would be a big deal for her.

@kirkseven said:@empressofdread: She withstood 3 infinite mass punches and was still standing. I don't thing a planet busting hit would be a big deal for her.

Infinite Mass punch has destroyed a moon on panel. If it was planetary Wonder Woman should have been KOd, like she was briefly KOd by Supermans punch in Sacrifice fight.

Superman is not a planet buster in pre 52, unfortunately.

@empressofdread: that moon had tremendous ammounts of energy behind it because of its speed, enough to destroy earth many times over. It should be more than just moon level.

I'm aware of the fact he has not busted any planets, but some of the things he's done over the years would require the ammounts of energy that are equal to or higher than whats required to destroy a planet. (I can provide feats later if you would like)

Doesn't clear for sure, but it comes down to him v.s Orion. BRB is soooooo slept on. The guy has little to no low end feats, extreme and undeniable combat speed, extremely high durability and power showings, but somehow is being said to be slower than WW? He probably bodies most of the main member of the JL one on one, except those with TP and of course one of the top 3 most sacred CV characters, Flash.

Stops at Superman.

@_kingoflatveria:

she doesn't have superior speed though, I'm pretty sure

She most certainly has superior combat and reaction speed.

and stronger characters have shown they can easily get out of it, plus a lasso ain't doing anything Bill can just do this

Stronger characters can NOT get out of it. Shapeshifters can get out of it by changing their body shape, and characters with super-speed can dodge it. The lasso can physically hurt Bill by cutting into his skin, or attack his soul and leave him unable to fight altogether. Bill cant do that while tied up.

Fought Silver Surfer in hyperspace(Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter #1)

Silver Surfer is not consistent in speed showings during combat. Do you have any reference that he was moving FTL in that instant? Many characters have tagged Silver Surfer, doesn't mean they have super speed.

while going MFTL is able to weave and bob himself through several energy attacks(Stormbreaker: The Saga of Beta Ray Bill #2)

While this is impressive, Diana does not have energy attacks. And Bill does not show this kind of speed in physical combat.

observes Silver Surfer going several times lightspeed for a decent amount of time(Cosmic Powers Unlimited)

he can a millisecond in real-world times to an hour(Cosmic Powers Unlimited #3 or 4, I don't have the scan)

Perception does not translate to combat speed.

He's consistently kept up with Stardust who's casual picoseconds in combat speed

Was Stardust fighting BRB in picoseconds? Mongul keeping up with Superman does not mean he has super-speed, as Superman wasn't using speed in that instance.

Wonder Woman has more than enough speed to block his planet busting attacks.

This is BRB though, he does not have low showings like Thor, has a legit planet busting feat with planetary durability to top that. In character Wonder Woman's speed could give him some trouble but its out of character for Wonder Woman to use her sword offensively. But since BRB is bloodlusted he will go with his utmost firepower first which is a planet busting attack. All he has to do is ram into Wonder Woman with his Stormbreaker and unleash planet busting power. BRB is not Thor, BRB is >> Thor.

BRB's durability is certainly a problem, which is why lasso incapacitation seems the best option, Bill has no defence against it.

Clears

@the_badman:

She most certainly has superior combat and reaction speed.

feats or I don't buy it

Stronger characters can NOT get out of it.

Dooomsday, Amazo are just 2 examples off the top of my head how does she counter the hammer trick

Silver Surfer is not consistent in speed showings during combat. Do you have any reference that he was moving FTL in that instant? Many characters have tagged Silver Surfer, doesn't mean they have super speed.

Skuttlebot is an FTL ship they are keeping pace with him while fighting in the bottom left panel you can literally see they are in hyperspace

While this is impressive, Diana does not have energy attacks

the point entirely went over your head, he's going several times lightspeed and he's still able to dodge projectiles in his way while moving at these speeds

Perception does not translate to combat speed.

your right but it means he can see her in slow motion. Silver Surfer's travel speed>>>Wonder Woman's combat speed

Mongul keeping up with Superman does not mean he has super-speed, as Superman wasn't using speed in that instance.

Mongul does have super speed lmao, so if Superman is fighting Wonder Woman this means they are fighting at normal pace lol

Bill is Thor with super speed I see no way how he looses bloodlusted while Diana has morals on

Way out of order. He's not beating Orion and J'onn.

I assume you refer to the positions of Firestorm and Kilowog?

@_kingoflatveria:

feats or I don't buy it

Her fight with Genocide, with a clone Flash, with several copies of herself are some examples. Bill does not have similar combat speed as I'll show below.

Dooomsday, Amazo are just 2 examples off the top of my head how does she counter the hammer trick

Both Doomsday and Amazo have super-speed. Doomsday blitzed Martian Manhunter and caught a Superman flying in high speeds while Amazo had the powers of the league. She blocks the hammer with her bracelets. She a cunning fighter who studies her opponents, she'll notice when he sends his hammer flying away. Has the KOed Stardust in that instance? Even if it hits her, its not like she's getting KOed or something.

Skuttlebot is an FTL ship they are keeping pace with him while fighting in the bottom left panel you can literally see they are in hyperspace

Is shuttlebot flying FTL in that instance? Anyways, they're trading punches while both are flying at high speeds. FTL combat speed means they're throwing punches at each other faster than light. This translates into blitzing and bullrushing speed, not combat speed.

your right but it means he can see her in slow motion. Silver Surfer's travel speed>>>Wonder Woman's combat speed

Can he react/move that fast?

the point entirely went over your head, he's going several times lightspeed and he's still able to dodge projectiles in his way while moving at these speeds

Mate I get it. This means he has FTL reaction speed. This does not mean he has FTL combat speed. Still, Wonder Woman's reaction speed is like, way way better.

Mongul does have super speed lmao, so if Superman is fighting Wonder Woman this means they are fighting at normal pace lol

I have no idea what this sentence means.

Bill is Thor with super speed I see no way how he looses bloodlusted while Diana has morals on

He hasn't shown impressive combat speed so far. I'm not saying Diana takes a majority with morals on. I think this can go either way. Bill is Thor with superior durability and striking feats.

He stops at Round 8 or 9.

@the_badman:

Wonder Woman has more than enough speed to block his planet busting attacks.

She has her speed and her gauntlets. But its her ability to not directly tank them which will give her the problem.

BRB's durability is certainly a problem, which is why lasso incapacitation seems the best option, Bill has no defence against it.

A lot of people have avoided the lasso, well a lot of people have got tagged and trapped as well. But the thing is while lasso is a great thing to use and done even with morals on. WW in character will probably try to not lasso him which I think BRB can avoid if he plays smart, he was reacting to SS moving at FTL speeds.

EDIT: Wonder Woman can not tank a planet busting attack that's a Major problem here. She wont know what she will be getting her self into.

Remember WW wont be expecting a planet busting attack to be unleashed directly on her face. Its a good fight but I see BRB taking a majority in this scenario.

You can provide feats. I am aware a lot of character hurt other characters who have actually tanked planet busting attacks. But thats not the problem. Problem is IMPs best feats are restricted to only moon level and nothing more.

Here all the science and calculations for an IMP if you look at at it. While travelling at just under the speed of light as shown in Supermans and Supergirls feat both managed to destroy only moon.

https://screwattack.roosterteeth.com/post/51229057

Stops at 8 or 9.

Best fight 7

Stops at 7 MAYBE

8+ loses

I’d love for someone with information on Kilowag to make a case if there is one

@the_badman: Ok, I know your debate is with KoL, but this is just wrong

Is shuttlebot flying FTL in that instance? Anyways, they're trading punches while both are flying at high speeds. FTL combat speed means they're throwing punches at each other faster than light. This translates into blitzing and bullrushing speed, not combat speed.

Shuttlebut is in hypserspace which means he is traveling at least lightspeed, more likely FTL. And Surfer and Bill were fighting at these speeds, throwing punches. Bill even punches Surfer during his blitz that was going much faster than Skuttlebut, which puts it at high FTL.

Stops at 7 50/50.

Can't get past Supes.

Stops at 4

@empressofdread:

She has her speed and her gauntlets. But its her ability to not directly tank them which will give her the problem.

Eh, she can tank planet busting and bigger energy attacks. You're talking about energy attacks right? Or the actual blows?

A lot of people have avoided the lasso, well a lot of people have got tagged and trapped as well. But the thing is while lasso is a great thing to use and done even with morals on. WW in character will probably try to not lasso him which I think BRB can avoid if he plays smart, he was reacting to SS moving at FTL speeds.

Look, she lassos people IN character. Morals off, she just blitzes and uses her tiara on people. In character, she has used her lasso to trap people tons of times.

EDIT: Wonder Woman can not tank a planet busting attack that's a Major problem here. She wont know what she will be getting her self into.

Remember WW wont be expecting a planet busting attack to be unleashed directly on her face. Its a good fight but I see BRB taking a majority in this scenario.

She doesn't need to know. She blocks even the most harmless of attacks, because of her warrior training. That's her nature. She never deliberately tanks attacks. Hell, one time she blocked a drop of blood superman flung at her.

I think its even and can go either way, but I understand your view.

@kevd4wg:

Ok, I know your debate is with KoL, but this is just wrong

No problem mate. I cut in the middle of a debate KoL was having with someone else.

Shuttlebut is in hypserspace which means he is traveling at least lightspeed, more likely FTL. And Surfer and Bill were fighting at these speeds, throwing punches. Bill even punches Surfer during his blitz that was going much faster than Skuttlebut, which puts it at high FTL.

Look at it this way. I'm brawling with you when we're both inside a bullet train. There's no relative velocity between us. This does not mean our combat speed is the same as that of the train. Bill and Surfer are flying FTL obviously, but the fight itself, the exchange between them, is that at FTL speeds?

Stops at 7/8.

@the_badman:

Eh, she can tank planet busting and bigger energy attacks. You're talking about energy attacks right? Or the actual blows?

Actual blows. However when did WW tank a planet busting attack?

Look, she lassos people IN character. Morals off, she just blitzes and uses her tiara on people. In character, she has used her lasso to trap people tons of times.

She uses her lasso when she gets serious. Guys with FTL reactions will dodge the lasso.

She doesn't need to know. She blocks even the most harmless of attacks, because of her warrior training. That's her nature. She never deliberately tanks attacks. Hell, one time she blocked a drop of blood superman flung at her.

I think its even and can go either way, but I understand your view.

She has been tagged by a lot of people in character. Power Girl first punched her to Canada then she got serious. So its not like she goes offensive right out of the bat. Whereas a bloodlusted BRB would.

Stops at 8.

@empressofdread:

Actual blows. However when did WW tank a planet busting attack?

Actual blows would definitely hurt her, though not KO her. She never tanked anything planet busting, she blocked more powerful attacks with her bracelets.

She uses her lasso when she gets serious. Guys with FTL reactions will dodge the lasso.

Nah she uses her lasso the most when she's holding back. Is Bill's FTL reaction a very consistent thing in a fight? Has Bill never been hit by an attack thats slower than light? Diana has tagged people like Superman and Power Girl (who have dodged it too) and these people are actually way more consistent in using super speed in combat.

She has been tagged by a lot of people in character. Power Girl first punched her to Canada then she got serious. So its not like she goes offensive right out of the bat. Whereas a bloodlusted BRB would.

True, but she held back against PG, whom she knows personally, who's been her teammate before.

@the_badman:

She never tanked anything planet busting, she blocked more powerful attacks with her bracelets.

Yes, thats how I remember it too. I thought you said WW has planetary durability and I got shocked like what did I miss. Her bracelets can protect her though, her bracelets force fields have stood up against higher attacks IIRC.

Nah she uses her lasso the most when she's holding back. Is Bill's FTL reaction a very consistent thing in a fight? Has Bill never been hit by an attack thats slower than light? Diana has tagged people like Superman and Power Girl (who have dodged it too) and these people are actually way more consistent in using super speed in combat.

Agreed. Speed in DC comics will put even Bill (who I consider has has good reactions and travel) to shame. But see, point is there is not much to contradict Bills showings, unlike in the case of Thor where I can put scan after scan showing how slow Thor is. So its not unhealthy to assume Bill can dodge it. Considering a lot of people with considerable speed do it. I also said she does use it in character, yes, but she also directly does not go for lassoing. She first tries to defend using her bracelets, then goes for the lasso. Although I understand if you think she can lasso in from the beginning. But Bill can dodge.

True, but she held back against PG, whom she knows personally, who's been her teammate before.

Yes that is correct. But I was trying to show she holds back in character. A lot of character hold back in character. I mean would you think WW will use FTL combat speed to cut everyone up right out of the bat, no, unless she was bloodlusted where its possible.

EDIT: So we both agree that WW physically can not tank planet busting attacks and that it will one shot her.

@empressofdread:

Agreed. Speed in DC comics will put even Bill (who I consider has has good reactions and travel) to shame. But see, point is there is not much to contradict Bills showings, unlike in the case of Thor where I can put scan after scan showing how slow Thor is. So its not unhealthy to assume Bill can dodge it. Considering a lot of people with considerable speed do it. I also said she does use it in character, yes, but she also directly does not go for lassoing. She first tries to defend using her bracelets, then goes for the lasso. Although I understand if you think she can lasso in from the beginning. But Bill can dodge.

I'm not assuming she'll lasso him off the bat, but she'd definitely do it. I don't think Bill is fast enough to dodge it and even if he is, he'll get tagged in the second or third try. I mean, she's lassod people much faster, and her instances of lassoing far outnumber that of someone dodging her lasso.

Yes that is correct. But I was trying to show she holds back in character. A lot of character hold back in character. I mean would you think WW will use FTL combat speed to cut everyone up right out of the bat, no, unless she was bloodlusted where its possible.

WW does not even have FTL combat speed. But its still huge. Its her reaction speed thats FTL. WW does not hold back against someone who's not her friend as much as someone like, say Superman holds back.

So we both agree that WW physically can not tank planet busting attacks and that it will one shot her.

I said it would hurt her, not KO her. Her taking an extended beating from OMAC Prime and still staying conscious shows that she wont go out in one hit. But yeah, it'd hurt her a LOT.

@the_badman:

I'm not assuming she'll lasso him off the bat, but she'd definitely do it. I don't think Bill is fast enough to dodge it and even if he is, he'll get tagged in the second or third try. I mean, she's lassod people much faster, and her instances of lassoing far outnumber that of someone dodging her lasso.

Yes, assuming she gets second or third try. Bill could just use his travel speed and blitz WW with a planet busting attack.

WW does not even have FTL combat speed. But its still huge. Its her reaction speed thats FTL. WW does not hold back against someone who's not her friend as much as someone like, say Superman holds back.

I consider WW does hat FTL combat speed. Her reactions are FTL but she is able to run around and keep up and tag opponents moving at FTL speeds like Superman. Thats in combat. WW still holds back though. A bloodlusted WW will only go for kill shots. She is not doing that in character at all.

I said it would hurt her, not KO her. Her taking an extended beating from OMAC Prime and still staying conscious shows that she wont go out in one hit. But yeah, it'd hurt her a LOT.

She is getting KOd or killed by a planet busting attack she can not tank it. Her best durability feat is when a bloodlusted Superman punched her from Sun to earth that is a moon level attack and it KOd Wonder Woman.

@the_badman: I could argue that Kilowog is superior to Diana but nah, that's more of a subjective thing and I'm fine with Diana being above him. My problem is Donna Troy. She should be below everyone sans Batman and Deathstroke. Although I take that back. It isn't "way" out of order. Donna is just too high.

Stops at 10.

How the hell is he beating Jason??

@empressofdread:

Yes, assuming she gets second or third try. Bill could just use his travel speed and blitz WW with a planet busting attack

Bill cant Blitz her. Her reaction speed is fast enough to dodge or block Bill bullrushing.

I consider WW does hat FTL combat speed. Her reactions are FTL but she is able to run around and keep up and tag opponents moving at FTL speeds like Superman. Thats in combat. WW still holds back though. A bloodlusted WW will only go for kill shots. She is not doing that in character at all.

Look, neither Supes nor WW have FTL combat speed. Tagging someone FTL does not mean you have FTL combat speed. Fighting someone in picoseconds, throwing punches and kicks at the speed of light, thats FTL combat speed. Out of the characters I'm familiar with, the only person I'd say fights at FTL speeds is the Flash.

She is getting KOd or killed by a planet busting attack she can not tank it. Her best durability feat is when a bloodlusted Superman punched her from Sun to earth that is a moon level attack and it KOd Wonder Woman.

She's getting neither KOed, nor killed. The feat you've mentioned is one of her worst durability feats, which people bring up to lowball her. Her best feat is the one I mentioned in the previous post.